From falcon45ca
Spoiler: show
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:24 pm Dolby - I tend to jump quickly on top of things that I don't like in game play, like his "haven't been able to catch up", and I'm wrong far more often than I'm right.
Dyslexicon - Has pushed the game forward and isn't afraid to engage and discuss with players.
G-Man - I can't actually think of much, other than being a low poster doesn't necessarily make one Maf
[etc continue trustfall...]
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:46 pm I'd actually put Dizzy in over SOA.
Ilario, Dolby, Dizzy, G-Man is my POE atm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:06 pmCuz' I rarely read the rules. I'm more of a shoot from the hip kinda playerG-Man wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:52 amTies are determined by the mafia, per our host. No ties, thank you very much.falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:43 amI vote for the players I think are scum. How am I supposed to know how I'm going to impact the game for a town win? That's a strange question. What's your answer to that question for yourself?Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:28 amIf I'm not mistaken, you're vote has been off main wagons on both days now. How are you going to impact the game to a town win? Right now Dolby and SOA have wagons on them, so if you were to choose one of them, which one would you vote?
Between Dolby and SOA, I'd like to pull a move I've recently seen from @Master Radishes tie em' up and let it rand.
Why don’t you (or anyone else posting since apparently) remember this from the rules?
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:57 pmNice alliteration.G-Man wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:33 pm Traipsing around Dolby's ISO, I still see the slightly-punchy logic-based content that won me over here and there, but I'm also seeing that he finds ways to go really soft on just about everyone in the game. He's countered some assertions and suspicions and objected to a few players for things, but those pokes, prods, and punches never turn into any firm suspicions. It looks more like coasting from 10,000 feet.
[VOTE: Gman] aubergine
Too much gussyin' up his words. It just doesn't feel natural
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:08 pmG-Man wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:05 pmThis is (checks ISO), pretty much the most you've said about me all game. Are you all-around allergic to alliteration? Or are you just searching for something to support the saving of your skin?falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:57 pmNice alliteration.G-Man wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:33 pm Traipsing around Dolby's ISO, I still see the slightly-punchy logic-based content that won me over here and there, but I'm also seeing that he finds ways to go really soft on just about everyone in the game. He's countered some assertions and suspicions and objected to a few players for things, but those pokes, prods, and punches never turn into any firm suspicions. It looks more like coasting from 10,000 feet.
[VOTE: Gman] aubergine
Too much gussyin' up his words. It just doesn't feel natural
This isn't much, but perhaps the last exchange can be illuminating. Take it with a grain of salt since we're well into the distancing period. Nonetheless, G-Man literally said falcon hadn't said anything about him prior to the vote. Quite true. As I type this I find my ability to care draining in real time. This stuff isn't very meaningful.
From G-Man
Spoiler: show
G-Man wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:58 pmFALCON
Looking back through just his ISO now reinforces the fact that his posts failed to make much of an impression on me. There's a lot of retorts, musings on other people's thoughts, and borderline OT randomness, but not enough original thoughts for the size of his ISO. In post #354, he offers three baddie names but with no meat behind it. I balked at this post, but in looking back on it now, perhaps this is Falcon broadcasting his own philosophy/strategy for the game? He's certainly been one to avoid making waves as far as I can tell.
G-Man wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:05 am Theory time:
When I look at Lime Coke's recent evolution on Falcon...
Spoiler: showLime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:36 pmI'm building that up as we speak.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:33 pm Lime Coke, when you finish sharing your ketchup, it’d be super if you could give some baseline reads much like I asked from G-Man. Top town and/or mafia reads.
Dizzy is top town if you want a preview.
Falcon could be mafia based on that pop in during that small CFD attempt.Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:34 amBecause Falcon's just planting his vote on Illario both day phases and not moving. I know both can do well with distancing but that would kinda be ridiculous? Don't you think?staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:31 amdo you mind talking a little bit about why you think illario/falcon is T v W specifically? why can't they be wolves together?
also, if illario wasn't getting chopped today, who would you wanna vote next?
Next vote is either the opposite side of that spectrum with Falcon. Seeing the sudden pop in when he had the CFD placed on him.
Or Marmot.
If Falcon is mafia Marmot is town because Falcon had that weird "Marmot being silent is deafening" post when it was only 2 hours into Day 2.Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:41 am In terms of my scumreads-
I might only have one.
Since Illario might end up being town.
Falcon has to be mafia. His fixation on Illario and voting him for 2 days straight is very awkward.
This line from Falcon is kinda gross just based on the merit of him posting this 2 hours after the day started. Like could be timezone difference or whatever reasoning he's not going to be here at SOD every day for every game. Feels like he'd be stacking the deck in order to have his viewpoint look solid.
Last thing is the fact that the CFD wagon started on Falcon, and 2 minutes after SPF is the third vote on the wagon, Falcon appears with a post.Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:44 am My issue is that literally every game I play with Falcon I end up scumreading the guy, and that's probably this playstyle difference on this site compared to other games that I normally play.
Like so many town players just look scummy by playstyle.
It makes so many of these players such a >rand flip.
...my mind considers the following:
1) Lime Coke and Falcon are teammates.
2) Lime Coke, seeing that Falcon is on enough radars, adds Falcon to his radar.
3) In short order, Lime Coke puts Falcon deep in his POE, but makes Falcon part of an either/or scenario with a civvie he thinks he can build a case on for a mischop (ilario). This would allow him to save face and go after Falcon if his preferred mischop target gets chopped first.
4) When his ilario case implodes, Lime Coke is forced to double down on his teammate Falcon and votes there.
5) He adds a little hedge at the end to give him a potential reason to not vote for Falcon at the end if it comes to that.
Is this too Mafia 101 and I should give up playing with the jumbo crayons? Or does this pass the sniff test? Poke holes in it please.
I want to look at the folks in my POE today as time allows (which it won't for the most part). This is what struck me when looking at Lime Coke. The placement of JJJ in my POE is among the softest, so I don't think I will go down that road further until the game develops more (preferably with me still in it). That leaves four more folks to consider yet.
G-Man wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:22 pmThis goes beyond distancing though, doesn't it? What started as distancing led to a dead end that Lime Coke may be stuck with. Nothing in those posts show me any fervent desire to see Falcon dead. To me it's more of a bland, if not reluctant, acceptance of Falcon as his only option considering his progression.Johanna wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:02 amWell yeah, this is the long version of "Lime Coke's vote on falcon could be distancing." I am very much thinking along those lines.G-Man wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:05 am Theory time:
When I look at Lime Coke's recent evolution on Falcon...
Spoiler: showLime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:36 pmI'm building that up as we speak.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:33 pm Lime Coke, when you finish sharing your ketchup, it’d be super if you could give some baseline reads much like I asked from G-Man. Top town and/or mafia reads.
Dizzy is top town if you want a preview.
Falcon could be mafia based on that pop in during that small CFD attempt.Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:34 amBecause Falcon's just planting his vote on Illario both day phases and not moving. I know both can do well with distancing but that would kinda be ridiculous? Don't you think?staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:31 amdo you mind talking a little bit about why you think illario/falcon is T v W specifically? why can't they be wolves together?
also, if illario wasn't getting chopped today, who would you wanna vote next?
Next vote is either the opposite side of that spectrum with Falcon. Seeing the sudden pop in when he had the CFD placed on him.
Or Marmot.
If Falcon is mafia Marmot is town because Falcon had that weird "Marmot being silent is deafening" post when it was only 2 hours into Day 2.Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:41 am In terms of my scumreads-
I might only have one.
Since Illario might end up being town.
Falcon has to be mafia. His fixation on Illario and voting him for 2 days straight is very awkward.
This line from Falcon is kinda gross just based on the merit of him posting this 2 hours after the day started. Like could be timezone difference or whatever reasoning he's not going to be here at SOD every day for every game. Feels like he'd be stacking the deck in order to have his viewpoint look solid.
Last thing is the fact that the CFD wagon started on Falcon, and 2 minutes after SPF is the third vote on the wagon, Falcon appears with a post.Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:44 am My issue is that literally every game I play with Falcon I end up scumreading the guy, and that's probably this playstyle difference on this site compared to other games that I normally play.
Like so many town players just look scummy by playstyle.
It makes so many of these players such a >rand flip.
...my mind considers the following:
1) Lime Coke and Falcon are teammates.
2) Lime Coke, seeing that Falcon is on enough radars, adds Falcon to his radar.
3) In short order, Lime Coke puts Falcon deep in his POE, but makes Falcon part of an either/or scenario with a civvie he thinks he can build a case on for a mischop (ilario). This would allow him to save face and go after Falcon if his preferred mischop target gets chopped first.
4) When his ilario case implodes, Lime Coke is forced to double down on his teammate Falcon and votes there.
5) He adds a little hedge at the end to give him a potential reason to not vote for Falcon at the end if it comes to that.
Is this too Mafia 101 and I should give up playing with the jumbo crayons? Or does this pass the sniff test? Poke holes in it please.
I want to look at the folks in my POE today as time allows (which it won't for the most part). This is what struck me when looking at Lime Coke. The placement of JJJ in my POE is among the softest, so I don't think I will go down that road further until the game develops more (preferably with me still in it). That leaves four more folks to consider yet.
G-Man wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:47 pmThe placement of Dolby in my group of six townreads list was due to my lists being alphabetical. I believe I said as much when I made them.Johanna wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:37 pmSome people had some townread. I haven't really seen a reason to scumread them but I hope things will become a bit clearer now that he seems to have rejoined the thread.
One thing that I couldn't help but note about G-Man's list is that, also against consensus, Dolby was placed rather high up. Unless I am misremembering. These are associative pointers, I'm just not sure how to weigh them. I feel like right now Lime's D2 is the shakiest performance we have and they make a good candidate, so I'd rather start clearing the POE from there or falcon.
Dolby put forth some logical posts. It's a vibey, wavelength kind of soft townread for him. One thing that I do need to go back and do during the night phase is look at Dolby's ISO and see if the logic and wavelength that appealed to me in individual posts is still there when I look at his production and progression from a macro level.
Right now I want to finish up with Falcon's ISO to see if the teammate connection I can see from Lim Coke to Falcon extends back the other way.
G-Man wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:09 pm There's common ground between Falcon and Lime Coke in that they both sus ilario throughout the game so far. They reach their suspicions independently, however. Falcon latches onto ilario from the get-go because of 'cuddly' qualities. Am I to assume that they have experience together in prior games?
This looks to be the first time Falcon interacts with Lime Coke:Not much, and that could cut either way as a 'not much' post.Spoiler: show
Falcon gives a TR to Sig when the heat was mounting and ends up sticking with ilario with his vote. I called his content fluffy earlier and I stand by that. His vote on ilario feels soft too.
Here are his trustfall comments:His reason to trust ilario is not something that ilario has done, but rather his own bias. Isn't that not how the trustfall was supposed to work? Also, his Lime Coke assessment is also very soft. Both of these have a sort of built-in defense about them that can be utilized later.Spoiler: showfalcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:24 pm Dolby - I tend to jump quickly on top of things that I don't like in game play, like his "haven't been able to catch up", and I'm wrong far more often than I'm right.
Dyslexicon - Has pushed the game forward and isn't afraid to engage and discuss with players.
G-Man - I can't actually think of much, other than being a low poster doesn't necessarily make one Maf
ilario - Again, could be that I'm tunneling and focusing too much on idiosyncrasies that I tend to scum read
JaggedJimmyJay - Probably has done more good for the town & thread health than I'd like to admit
Johanna - Comes across as earnestly trying to solve for town
Lime Coke - Seems in their town meta as far as I know their town meta
Marmot - Activity D2 has been of the solvey type I expect from town Marmot. He spins his tires more as Maf IMO
NotAnAxehole - Has a straightforward approach that doesn't feel agenda-y, seems direct and trying to solve rather than muddy waters.
Sloonei - See above. Different approach, but the motivation feels the same
Son of Anarch - Doesn't come across as overly wary or shy about approaching the game & giving reads.
TonyStarkPrime - Is in his town meta as far as I know and expect from it
Here he even inserts ilario into Lime Coke's slot to modify a potential solve:Is there anything in light of today's events that shook Lime Coke's view of ilario that may have changed Falcon's view as well? I'd like to know.Spoiler: showfalcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:44 pmOh ok.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:52 pmFrom thisfalcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:50 pmI'm sorry, what's the solve?JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:46 pm Thanks for doing those everyone.
@falcon45ca, how do you feel about the solve I proposed? From your perspective only one of the possible teams can be correct.
and this
I determined the mafia team must be either:
Dolby, G-Man, Lime Coke, falcon
or
Dolby, G-Man, Lime Coke, Son of Anarch
I don't think LC is Maf, doesn't feel right, ditto SOA. I'd put ilario in their spot Otherwise this is a POE I can work with.
Overall, I can see potential breadcrumbs from Falcon to Lime Coke. It's not as distinct as what I see in the other direction. If Lime Coke flips mafia, Falcon's ISO will need parsed again.
I'm going to [VOTE: Falcon] aubergine at the moment to keep things spicy. I don't like that this means I am voting alongside Lime Coke, but I think he's just stuck there.
G-Man wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:52 amTies are determined by the mafia, per our host. No ties, thank you very much.falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:43 amI vote for the players I think are scum. How am I supposed to know how I'm going to impact the game for a town win? That's a strange question. What's your answer to that question for yourself?Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:28 amIf I'm not mistaken, you're vote has been off main wagons on both days now. How are you going to impact the game to a town win? Right now Dolby and SOA have wagons on them, so if you were to choose one of them, which one would you vote?
Between Dolby and SOA, I'd like to pull a move I've recently seen from @Master Radishes tie em' up and let it rand.
Why don’t you (or anyone else posting since apparently) remember this from the rules?
G-Man wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:01 pmThis is just sofalcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:06 pmCuz' I rarely read the rules. I'm more of a shoot from the hip kinda playerG-Man wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:52 amTies are determined by the mafia, per our host. No ties, thank you very much.falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:43 amI vote for the players I think are scum. How am I supposed to know how I'm going to impact the game for a town win? That's a strange question. What's your answer to that question for yourself?Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:28 amIf I'm not mistaken, you're vote has been off main wagons on both days now. How are you going to impact the game to a town win? Right now Dolby and SOA have wagons on them, so if you were to choose one of them, which one would you vote?
Between Dolby and SOA, I'd like to pull a move I've recently seen from @Master Radishes tie em' up and let it rand.
Why don’t you (or anyone else posting since apparently) remember this from the rules?
G-Man wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:20 pm Took a look at Falcon's full ISO just now. Beyond the JJJ tin-foil, which I am sympathetic to up to a point, there's not much meat behind his words or actions. It's coasty, but not as noticeably coasty as Dolby from 10,000 feet. If Dolby is just dipping his toes in the ocean, Falcon's gone in just over the knee. Less responding to others and more original content is needed. He stays in my POE.
We can note that G-Man dedicated a lot of time and energy to assessing falcon, but he did so with a specific premise -- that he would (or wouldn't) be teamed with Lime Coke. That would tend to devalue whatever conclusions G-Man comes to when at that point neither have flipped. That doesn't mean pre-flip associative reads are just flat bad the end, but when you only look at one pair you're going to have a very hard time getting anywhere. G-Man ended up concluding that the two do fit together as mafia teammates and left his Day 2 vote on falcon. The meaning of that vote depends upon the progression of the wagons and how likely he thought it was that someone other than Lime Coke would actually be eliminated. The premise of the analysis stunts the suspicion, and the consensus on Lime Coke stunts the vote. I wouldn't feel comfortable dissociating G-Man from falcon on this basis.
~~~
Do they fit?
This is probably the toughest one for me to call so far, but I don't think I can confidently separate them. They at least can be teammates with reasonable plausibility.