Fleabag Mafia mafia win

[NotAnAxehole]

I see that too NAA, I was startled by ilario's AtE at not reading his posts, when from my perspective, I'm having a hard time following their train of thought and trying to figure it out.

I'm not convinced that ilario isn't scum, but if we mischop him, I'd like to get some solid info out of him first at least.

That's why I was pushing for a PoE to be established before he poked around.

[ilario]

If you're town and g-man and falcon are scum, you've got nothing to lose if we continue to work through the poe.

I'd just like to encourage you to look at those suspects first before branching out to the rest of the game. That is who the thread has generally agreed are the top suspects (along with you)

Read my posts.

My first post I said I don’t think falcon is mafia

That’s why I think the poe is bad

It has me and falcon and I don’t scumread falcon

I honestly don’t get why I’m bothering with this if my posts aren’t being read

It also says you're confident in Dizzy being town.

Yes it did. However, My reasons to tr falcon over there were game related, my reasons to tr dizzy were not.

After that post I began to read the game from d1. More reasons to tr falcon popped up, some reasons to tr naa popped up, some reasons to tr you popped up.

No reasons to tr gman or Johanna popped up.

Almost the entire reason I had to tr dizzy this game was based on mindmelding a lot and the fact that I find him very likeable.

As I read d1 I also noticed that some of the reads/posts that I was mindmelding with dizzy on were takes of mine that were incorrect. So it’s not impossible that dizzy as scum saw that and tried to pocket me. And if he did, then wp to him he did a good job at it.

I have probably done a disservice to his scum game by townrrading him so easily. I heard that hally, who is a really skilled player, played with him as town a lot and she felt confident in her ability to read him, and the first time he flipped scum on her he tricked her hard. So I have no doubt he has a strong scum game. I don’t want to lose this game because I did not give enough respect to dizzys play.

This post isn’t to say that I think he has to be scum, it’s to say that the reasons I trd him are not game related and I’ve been realizing that as I catch up.

[Marmot]

I prefer Dolby over G-Man over SOA. Like, it may matter a lot, but it also may not matter at all.

okayyyyy i trust ur judgement

vote:dolby

Dizzy pogging

[ilario]

I see that too NAA, I was startled by ilario's AtE at not reading his posts, when from my perspective, I'm having a hard time following their train of thought and trying to figure it out.

I'm not convinced that ilario isn't scum, but if we mischop him, I'd like to get some solid info out of him first at least.

Those posts are not designed to help you read me, they’re my own thoughts while I solidify my solve as well as a mixture of questions I’m asking to read people in order for me to achieve that solve

I am playing under the worst case scenario assumption that I could be dying today, so I have no room for error, I need to be 2/2

[NotAnAxehole]

I think either my, or Ilario's or both of our PoEs are correct.

I'm pretty much convinced it's either mine or both, so I'm not likely to change my 3 kills.

[Marmot]

Alright, I'll stop bugging you and let you do your thing.

The thread is yours.

[NotAnAxehole]

I'm satisfied with the day, we can kill G-Man

[NotAnAxehole]

Hammer time

[Marmot]

(I at least want to wait 5-6 hours to get our EOD back on schedule)

[ilario]

Alright, I'll stop bugging you and let you do your thing.

The thread is yours.

You’re free to bug me

I’m just trying to say that if my train of thought is hard to follow it’s because my posts aren’t really being designed to make sense to an audience

I’m trying to feed info that may be helpful to myself and others in order to solve the game

[ilario]

Hi I still haven't fully read the thread

I'm wondering...is there a point to telling us this?


[VOTE: Dolby] aubergine

another reason why falcon should not be voted, this is his first post on d2

[ilario]

I think either my, or Ilario's or both of our PoEs are correct.

I'm pretty much convinced it's either mine or both, so I'm not likely to change my 3 kills.

Is falcon in it?

[NotAnAxehole]

I think either my, or Ilario's or both of our PoEs are correct.

I'm pretty much convinced it's either mine or both, so I'm not likely to change my 3 kills.

Is falcon in it?

I've been saying Falcon!town the entire game...

[Marmot]

For clarity, my current preferred yeet order is.

G-Man => ilario => falcon ( => NAA => Johanna )



Tbh NAA, Johanna, and Dizzy aren't even considerations for me atm. The thread-spew from SoA and Dolby chops point to them both being most likely town.

I'd reconsider if we miss-chop today or tomorrow, but only at that point.

[ilario]

I think either my, or Ilario's or both of our PoEs are correct.

I'm pretty much convinced it's either mine or both, so I'm not likely to change my 3 kills.

Is falcon in it?

I've been saying Falcon!town the entire game...

hmmm, well if ur town then u have every right to be smug to me in that case

[ilario]

For clarity, my current preferred yeet order is.

G-Man => ilario => falcon ( => NAA => Johanna )



Tbh NAA, Johanna, and Dizzy aren't even considerations for me atm. The thread-spew from SoA and Dolby chops point to them both being most likely town.

I'd reconsider if we miss-chop today or tomorrow, but only at that point.

"The thread-spew from SoA and Dolby chops point to them both being most likely town."

explain this part for me?

[ilario]

mostly in reference to dizzy and johanna

[Marmot]

I'll just put these right here.

You can ignore the outcomes JJJ came to if you like. The spoiled content is the good stuff.

Interactions of Son of Anarch and Dyslexicon

From Son of Anarch

Spoiler: show

Hey all. Just caught up on the thread, some thoughts below

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

~~~spoiler snipped~~~

@TonyStarkPrime care to explain your townreads on sig and falcon? Gotta say I disagree with at least sig for reasons I describe up top, no real opinion on falcon as of yet.

And also why I'm on the subject:

@falcon45ca Why'd ya specifically call out that crowd with their townreads? I'd say there's been quite a few players this game that have been ridin' the town read train, includin' myself a bit.

Oh yeah and since it's been talked about a bit, I'm just gonna say that another reason I have Stayposi as town now is because while she's not postin' as much as the rest of us, her posts are pretty... "powerful" in a sense. I'd like to call it somethin' like high-impact posting. I'm willing to listen to Dyslexicon's opinion of course, but I don't think she's got scum vibes like some of the other people I've been talkin' about.

And another thing too that I noticed... I still kinda feel like Lime Coke is mirroring the thread. He seems almost scared to make strong statements and has even qualified a few of them like his townread on ilario. Dunno... think I'm just gettin' the vibe that he's a bit uncomfortable.

Also that SPF sleuthin' post on sig was so mind blowy I don't even know where my brain is at, like I could barely comprehend it, but it sounded right

[VOTE: sig] aubergine

Reminder that I'm pea-brained

Hey, I want cred for this too. I caught it immediately, I just wasn't all flashy about it, cause I wanted to lure more out of him lol

Cred denied. You didn't sound as cool as SPF did when talkin' about it

Jk jk if sig flips wolf I'll think about taking you on a bro-date.

Sloonei, that post got me thinkin' and now I'm kinda wonderin'... Are you sayin' you think this dialogue between me and sig could be town/town?

Uh, I think he's saying that if you are, the hostility building is not helpful. And hearing people out regardless of alignment is always better. This post is a bit weird though.

It's not weird if ya know what's knockin' around inside my head right now

Sloonei, that post got me thinkin' and now I'm kinda wonderin'... Are you sayin' you think this dialogue between me and sig could be town/town?

Uh, I think he's saying that if you are, the hostility building is not helpful. And hearing people out regardless of alignment is always better. This post is a bit weird though.

And by the way, the post you're referring to isn't the one I responded to

I don't think any of the spoiled bits are that important and to be honest with you all, the quoting on this website is a bit difficult/hard to keep up, so I'm just gonna be talkin' about things without quotes and then if ya need me to quote for whatever reason, just ask me.

@ilario I think Marmot's recent posts are alright. It doesn't really sway me one way or the other. I guess you could say his posts are mostly safe, but not really that scummy t'me. I know that's kinda avoiding givin' a direct answer, but probably wouldn't feel comfortable labeling the dude one way or the other.

And Sloonei man, I honestly don't know what you're tryin' to say there. I get you don't want to enforce a read on Jimmy or make people think you have to follow your read, but I think from my perspective it seems pretty obvious that ya town read the guy. Reason bein' that you haven't really contested the triad idea, keep askin' leading questions that sorta attempt to guide people towards the read, and I don't think you'd give Jimmy this much thread control if ya thought the guy was scum, eh? So I don't get why you're makin' such a big deal about not givin' a read on him.

Dyslexicon had a good point earlier by the way. I know ya guys haven't ever played with me, but I think some of my posts here are pretty hard to fake as scum just in general. I'd listen to the good man here and town read me to make the game easier on you all Hah, but if you don't wanna that's okay too. I just wanna remind you all though that cowboys are good at catchin' criminals.

Also, I accept my place in the triad with you Ilario. I was readin' over your ISO earlier and I'm thinkin' you're just town. Reason being that I think some of your ideas and posts are just too whacky to be scum and your confidence is so fire. I know I said earlier confidence could be scum-indicative, but it's the kinda confidence that's enforced for the sake of pushin' the game along and not the kind of confidence I see a wolf present in order to be town read. Dyslexicon seems like a pretty cool dude as well, high-energy and all. Not that that makes someone town, but I've seen him present a few reads or push in a few directions that I feel like would be pretty ballsy to do, also everyone else seems to town read him and I doubt the whole thread would be wrong on that sorta read since he seems to be a regular on the site.

Here's a reads list for everyone's trouble by the way (it's not ordered between tiers):

Stayposi
Ilario
Jimmy
Dyslexicon
NAA

-------

Dolby
Sloonei
Marmot
Falcon

-------

G-man
Johanna

-------

Lime Coke
TSP

-------

sig

And yeah gonna echo my pal Dyslexicon’s take here. No way I’m votin’ Ilario here and he’s decently town read by everyone, so you’re admittin’ to just making a vanity vote.

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

Now this might just be the spice I was talkin’ about

Alright Dizzy, I’m game.

[VOTE: Falcon Man] aubergine

A new triad emerges. Me, Dizzy, and Stayposi. I dub us the falcon killers

Eh... If I had t'pick 4 people. Now that's really tough, but I'm gonna say right now it'd have to be...

Dizzy
Jimmy
Ilario

and for the fourth... I'm not too certain here. Maybe someone I haven't looked into too much but got good vibes from like Dolby or heck, even Johanna. That might be jumpin' the gun though. I think I'll slot Dolby in there.

I was just about to bring something up about Anarch that might’ve ended me and Ilario’s mindmeld lol. But yeah, you’ve seemed more in the backseat this day. Though I guess you addressed that.

Question though: What do you think Ilario’s intentions of giving you (and me) a lock town read in the way that he does? Cause for me, I just can’t really see any ill intent in that. OR basically: How do you feel about our triad?

I feel good about the triad. I think you and ilario are the two people I've been trustin' the most so far and I don't really have any reason to doubt that right now. I'm in the backseat 'cause of the high-volume of posts, bein' a lot busier with work now that it's not a weekend, and just generally not bein' too worried about the game state. I don't think ilario had ill intentions behind lockin' us town, but I do want to point out that that is a pretty loaded question. 'Cause either his intentions are pure and he's town or they're not and he's mafia. I'm thinkin' he's town so I'm thinkin' his intentions are pure. It would be pretty brave for a mafia to try and form an alliance like that, but not impossible. However, part of the reason I even trust him so much is because you're also in this "triad" with me and since I have reasons to think you're town, that at least means I'm not gettin' suckered in by two mafia. If he's pocketin', he's pocketin' both of us and that's way less embarrassin' to me.

Also I’m with spf and want to hammer in the fact that we probably just need one mafia flip to break the game open here, or at least have a much better understanding. It feels kind if chaotic right now, but it feels more chaotic than it is, because the solution is there. So if you’re town, just do all you can to get there.

Kinda agree with ya there, considerin' how the game state has been goin'

ANY BURNING QUESTIONS OR HUG REQUESTS? I’m sleeping soon and tomorrow is hell

Main suspect?

Hey Dizzy! Can you guys tell me a bit about what I missed if ya don't mind?

Yeah, yeah. I can see that but hey don't worry, as long as ya guys don't hammer me before I'm able to out my finals n' stuff it's all good

You think it’s good you’re getting chopped?

That's kind of a loaded question. What I'm sayin' is that obviously bein' chopped here is bad, but if you guys at least give me enough time to out my final reads then I won't feel pissed about it.

Hey Dizzy! Can you guys tell me a bit about what I missed if ya don't mind?

Scum is you, G-Man, Dolby and Falcon. Rest is town. I think that’s it.

Well that can't be right seein' as how I'm town. I thought you town read me earlier? What changed here?

I’m about this close to hammering Soa now. Blessings or forebodings?

You're already votin' me, but you can hammer Dolby instead.

I’m voting Dolby lol

Well, then keep your vote on him

Orange: This bit is already a decent look for Dizzy. SoA felt the need to reassure the reader, and probably Dizzy himself, that he wasn't ignoring Dizzy's suspicion of SPF -- just that he didn't agree. That can be viewed now as TMI on SPF, and I think it's typical of how mafia might handle civilians in Dizzy's position too.

Green: This is a moment Dizzy returned to last phase when we considered eliminating SoA. It's nice that Dizzy at least raised the concern at the time as well. SoA's response is pretty non-descript. If I reach I might say it looks like he is trying to assuage Dizzy's hesitation. The last green post looks pretty good for Dizzy too.

Cyan: By this point Dizzy as a high town read had become consensus so whatever. The initial blurb would be a bold one if they're teamed. That shouldn't be discounted off-hand.

Blue: Things become increasingly blatant here too. If SoA wants to form a triad with at least one civilian included, he'll need to sell it. Perhaps that's to Dizzy's credit, since SoA was really milking it at this point. Again there's wifom to contend with.

Red: This is probably the most important exchange for assessing Dizzy. SoA offered a lengthy response when Dizzy really began to reexamine the "new triad" on the basis that SoA had been falling off. SoA's response looks to me like someone who is trying to sell an argument to someone else that isn't already informed about its veracity; that is, SoA looks like he is really trying to convince Dizzy the triad is pure. That would suggest that Dizzy is not his teammate.

From Dyslexicon

Spoiler: show

Oh and by the way, I was kinda thinkin' about this earlier.

Isn't it better for the fruit vendor to claim right away? Basically an IC, yeah? Could have me (the watcher) go on 'em too. I know it's delayed mechanics and all, but still useful as long as I'm not killed.

And for everyone's efforts on this page, I'm gonna slap a small townread on all of you good folk right away. I'm warning ya though, my mind changes easily, but gettin' good vibes from this crowd. I like Jimmy's idea too, about Stayposi being naturally on guard about his early buddy-buddy with her. He seems like a good player, so I think her being naturally curious about all of that is pretty nice as far as ground zero reads go.

Hi, Son. Hope I can call you Son, cause I think that's kind of funny.

I just wanted to tell you that I'm currently single and looking to mingle. And I was wondering if you wanted to go on a date with me? It would entail peace and love and good things, and us never voting each other this game. You are town, and I am town. Let me know kk *squeaks and runs*

Has anyone claimed watcher yet I’m getting impatient

Yup. I'm watcher.

But now we know this means you're not

Unless...

You know it's kinda weird because I got the sense from Lime Coke's opening he didn't worry about town reading people so early, but the way he qualified that ilario read with "it's dangerous" kinda has my sensors goin' off a tad.

Ok fine

[VOTE: Lime Coke] aubergine

Oh yeah and since it's been talked about a bit, I'm just gonna say that another reason I have Stayposi as town now is because while she's not postin' as much as the rest of us, her posts are pretty... "powerful" in a sense. I'd like to call it somethin' like high-impact posting. I'm willing to listen to Dyslexicon's opinion of course, but I don't think she's got scum vibes like some of the other people I've been talkin' about.

And another thing too that I noticed... I still kinda feel like Lime Coke is mirroring the thread. He seems almost scared to make strong statements and has even qualified a few of them like his townread on ilario. Dunno... think I'm just gettin' the vibe that he's a bit uncomfortable.

I'm not actually scum reading spf here, to be clear. I'm not really reading her as anything, at least until I fact check myself lol. And I'm more than willing to listen to other people's opinion here. In any case, game is still young, so lettuce see what happens.

Regarding Lime, I feel that unless consensus is horribly off, I'd say he's probably town siding quite a bit if he is in fact mafia. Which I guess is possible. But I don't know, I don't really feel it. Or, I feel like he's actually happy about the town reads he has as opposed to not happy.

there are at least three zero posters and I thought everyone was townreading lc and anarch

I think about everyone is town reading anarch. Lime has been voted and sussed a fair bit, but as far as thread consensus right now I guess it's "eh maybe town".

And your reads are weird to me.

Also that SPF sleuthin' post on sig was so mind blowy I don't even know where my brain is at, like I could barely comprehend it, but it sounded right

[VOTE: sig] aubergine

Reminder that I'm pea-brained

Hey, I want cred for this too. I caught it immediately, I just wasn't all flashy about it, cause I wanted to lure more out of him lol

Also I'm thinkin' there's probably a scum in the 0-posters. Not sure if mafia the syndicate is the same, but on mafia scum a ton of folk hate randin' mafia to the point where they'll barely post. It can get pretty annoyin' and well... we've got three guys here not speakin' and I don't feel super bamboozled yet. I think I'm gonna make an enemy out of anyone who comes into the thread now.

Lol that's the spirit! =p
And yeah, I agree, also because I don't really think there are four mafia among the posting. Four seems like a lot, and maybe I have too many town reads tbh. But we do not speak about that.

Actually

[VOTE: TSP] aubergine

Ilario, Sloon, Jimmay, Anarch, SPF - Town.

I think Lime Coke is town and might feel more strongly about that than I do about ilario or Son of Anarch being town. That's not really a "slight" on the latter two; they're fine.

Can you do some whys on this?

Son of Anarch is an interesting case. I think that, on a holistic level, he looks pretty decent. There are some isolated moments where he might be a bit s t i l t e d though. I think I could even be reading him that way as a byproduct of his penchant for replacing the "ing" with " in' ". Replacin' as it were. I know that's dumb, but I'm just trying to make sense of a dumb concept like "stilted".

Still generally a town read, just with a bit more trepidation than some others have shown.

He kind of reminds me of that one player in last year's champs who role played in Game 1. =p
I think I've seen stuff from Anarch that mafia rarely says, and in general, town tells are way more reliable than scum tells imo. I may or may not feel inspired to go back and see if I agree with myself.

Right now I feel pretty good about at least five players being town. If I'm wrong on one of them, I feel like they are forced to town side quite a bit, which I'm then fine with. If I'm wrong on more than one, I'm not doing a nice job. And here is where I get my usual "but strong players" worry. But actually, history has told me that in a game with a lot of strong and active players, reliable town cores are likely to form, which in turn can break the game open quickly.

I'm going to attempt making a full ordered list, but just know that I kind of hate this exercise and I could second guess a lot of placements that ultimately doesn't end up mattering lol

Ilario - Husband material. Even if he's pulling off the deepest pocket of my career, he would be husband material.
Sloondog - He's doing his town things, he's not doing his one scum thing, and Jimmay says he is town.
SPF - I really like how she brought up the Sig mismatch thing, and I also feel good about our interaction. Funny thing is that her claiming stoned alleviated my worry around the one post that stood out the most to me lol.
Jimmay - I have followed his reads and thoughts, and I think our reads are pretty much identical or only minor variances, and there is of course no need to be paranoid!
Anarch - Not familiar, but I think he's done things that mafia pretty much just doesn't do. Creds if he is tbh. Also like his direction.
Marmot - I have no issues with The Marmot.
Dolby - Is probably fine. His posts are fine.
Axe - I don't know really.
Lime - I'm not quite convinced on Lime tbh. I feel he is very spongy, and I didn't like his woe is me post, cause it read more like he thought it was unfair that he was read mafia rather than it being wrong. Still appreciate his activity and solving, and not really interested to chop today.
TSP - He certainly has posts. Probably maybe not teamed with Sig? Could easily be town tbh
Falcon - Don't know, and don't particularly understand his takes. To be fair, he's not typically the most active or consensus player in general to my knowledge.
G-Man - There's nothing to read really.
Johanna - Honestly, those posts leaves nothing but mhhh in my mouth.
Sig - I read the thread/didn't read the thread, no good. And his approach to me felt like buddying. Unconvincing attack on Anarch, kind of feels like a crutch.

Anarch and above are pretty comfortable town. Add Marmot too, if I'm feeling a bit frisky.
Don't really have active suspicion on anyone except Sig.
Something like that.

Anyway, I went back to look at Anarch's ISO. And I agree with myself that there are certain things that mafia almost never does, like saying the game lack spice then adding some, saying they're town as fuck, saying they'll make an enemy out of the next people posting. So I'm still happy to be in a triad with him and Ilario. New friends ^^

I can like posts from tone which is what I said. If I'm going to pocket it won't be like that anyway.

Anarch instantly called me mafia for essentially going agaisnt his idea of claiming. Whihc again I'll follow with what I said before.

1. You want to out a town PR role, never good.
2. gives the mafia targets. You can say watcher will look which is all well and good, BUT that also straight up means watcher is going to be on that person leaving everyone else open. Not to mention watcher claimed so they can just go for him. Also sorry it isn't fun and against the spirit of the game to claim D1 and I'm sticking to that as a good reason alone regardless of strategy not to claim.
3. The whole case around me is dumb and seems like everyone here just has confirmation bias going on. So not really going to go out of my way to play super hard and still get lynched since people decided to go with an easy day 1 and/or just dislikes my view on claiming.

Alright. As I asked you earlier, do you think Anarch openly fishes for a role claim as mafia like that, if it's clearly anti-town?

Also, this game has four scum in it, and I haven't seen you have many suspects yet. I assume you plan to get a vote down?

Inb4 Sig/Anarch team

Hey all, bad news: internet outage in my area. I’m using the last of my data to be here

The struggle is real. Seems like most people are away for EoD in any case. Hope the magic of internet returns to your life soon!

Ah. I see it’s dead anyways, huh?

Anyone wanna make things interestin’ while we still can?

[VOTE: G-Man] aubergine

Interesting.

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

Now this might just be the spice I was talkin’ about

Jain the dark side. Triad unite.

To be clear, I'm also fully on board with Sig chop still.

(Also, call me Dizzy, if you please. I do love that nickname. ^^)

Ok, Anarch was one

Anyway - Ilario, Sloonei, Jimmay, SPF, Anarch, all town.
If Sig is mafia, maybe take TSP out of the PoE or maybe I'm dumb. I wouldn't take Lime out of PoE though.
If Sig is town, don't freak out.
Get G-Man and Johanna to talk more.

I quite like Johanna actually. I like that she picked the exact same Anarch post as awkward that I did, I like that she didn't go "michop bad thread consensus bad" (though I don't know if that is actually AI or anything), and similar to Jimmay, I do have a slight positive lean on her not considering the watcher (though logically, this is probably a non-point)

I also kind of think Axe is town? I don't know his scum style though. It would have to be a bold one if scum. I probably don't have enough actual backup to call this, and meta digging is boring. What do you say, Axe?

And now I'm pretty sure I have way too many town leans, wow surprising

I forced myself to put together a read list on an almost gun-to-head basis, because my mental sorting of this game has been a bit disturbed by SOD2 and the sig flip. This happened:

Dyslexicon
Sloonei
Lime Coke
TonyStarkPrime

ilario
Son of Anarch
Marmot

NotAnAxehole
falcon45ca
Johanna

G-Man

I a experiencing a ton of cognitive dissonance about that second tier. It's making it very difficult for me to form a proper POE pool.

Why is Lime so high for you?
I'd say Lime, Tony, Anarch, Marmot are all worthy of some love and attention for me at least. The two latter less so.

Actually, maybe I don't have as many town reads as I think lol

No worries. I just don't see the need to complicate the game until necessary. I'm an agreeable enough guy, sure. Heck, me even writin' this post is pretty agreeable, wouldn't ya think? But I'll tell ya what, bein' scum and bein' agreeable here serves me no purpose. I prefer to be in the center of the action as wolf, gettin' lots of blood on my hands whenever possible. Probably a bit hard to believe, eh? I'm pretty chill right now, after all. That's because I've got no teeth like those scary wolves, heh

Kind of just believe this and Anarch is probably just town.

@son of Anarch Thanks yous. That’s what I want to hear lol. It’s not really about it being brave as mafia, I just think it would be unstrategic as well, as it would actively box in his then potential team more. I just wanted to know if you had consudered this tbh. I think there’s basically no way he’s mafia.

ANY BURNING QUESTIONS OR HUG REQUESTS? I’m sleeping soon and tomorrow is hell

Main suspect?

Lime, where my vote is =p

@Dyslexicon are you still entirely solid on ilario and Son of Anarch? My chief tinfoil is that they're both mafia.

Ilario, yes. Anarch, no. Been thinking about Anarch during the night, and I get the impression his energy and involvement has been declining (though tbh I'm not caught up at all - in the process now)

I was thinking Son of Anarch might fit into the Sonny profile from the PerC crossover.

Sonny is my literal twin, so curious what you mean by this =p

Like, I get all happy just from Ilario showing up. Maybe I'm too deep in it, but fuck it, he's just town, I just know it.

Also, what's the reasons for him not being town anyway? Except game's hard.

I hope this doesn't annoy people now lol

It doesn't annoy me. If ilario is mafia he's played a fantastic game -- better yet than a strong mafia showing in the MURYM game last month. I don't have some clear or coherent case.

The reason I am exploring this so thoroughly is that the best argument I can come up with for either of you to be mafia is that you trust each other unconditionally for reasons I cannot entirely understand.

This is a game where mafia can town read each other and cruise when it starts at 11 vs. 4. I was also thinking of SoA as being a part of that situation.

Alright. I don't know what to say to this other than we're not mafia. I think I'm clearly town as well, though I realise the game is hard. Anarch has been dropping pretty heavily for me, and I think it's time me and Ilario had a staff meeting about it actually.

I think Ilario, Marmot and Jimmay are just town. That's maybe not a lot of town reads, but these are strong town reads for me.

I don't like Dolby's push on the general consensus town because I don't really see the substance in it apart from "This bad because I don't like the PoE". If Dolby is mafia, I think the PoE is good.

Anarch is falling down in the PoE for me. Maybe it's because of his activity dropping off, and now my initial town read there just doesn't feel as strong anymore. I don't really know how i feel.

As I read, I like quite a few of Johanna's and G-Man's posts. I don't know if that's really good enough at this stage though. But this may be another reason I'm thinking it's quite possible that Anarch is mafia.

I don't really see many teams that doesn't include Falcon tbh. My actual read on his play is that his posts are probably "fine" within his meta. But I don't really sense that he's going anywhere with his suspicions. His Ilario suspicion has seemed static, and I don't really get the sense that he cares about solving the game.

TSP and NAA exists and have done things.

Ilario/Marmot/Jimmay

NAA/TSP

Johanna/Anarch/G-Man

Falcon/Dolby

Much of this is superfluous, but I include it anyway if anyone wishes to reference the posts later.

Orange: This would be the stuff Dizzy could most stand to explain. It'd be good to know what SoA posts Dizzy had felt were not the kind mafia ever/usually make. It's unclear, and we're forced to take it or leave it.

Otherwise this follows the trajectory one would expect just by following the game. SoA was a strong town read, and that read faded with time until eventually it was gone entirely. Dizzy's own read on SoA kind of tracks with my own, though he was perhaps slower to flip.

~~~

Conclusion

I don't really think this looks like an interaction of mafia teammates. I have left Dizzy at least one question to talk about. Otherwise this does nothing to make me want to add Dizzy to the POE pool.

Do Johanna and Son of Anarch fit together as mafia teammates?

From Johanna

Spoiler: show

I know I said falcon is probably my #1 suspect but that's largely a function of not really having any. As I said, the ones who've made posts that struck me as odd in a bad way are Lime Coke and SoA.

Spoiler: show

I'd like to call him Limey.

Spoiler: show

But that'd be rude.

TSP definitely posted oddly, but not knowing them at all and given the consistency of it I am happy to chalk it up to posting style. Suggesting that a vt claim watcher was fantastic,

Spoiler: show

Thanks Marmot, I forgot that over the night.

they defended someone who was basically tilted for their entire stay on thread and thus were an easy mischop. It was not clear then and I'm not sure why he didn't say his clear was based on meta, but he was right, and his D2 so far just makes him townier.

I hate how NAA is playing but I don't see reason to characterise that as scummy. Confrontational and antagonising, sure. Again I chalk it up to posting style, although in this case I don't think there are reasons to towncore him. Neither are there reasons to suspect him.

So falcon. Yeah, I don't have reasons to think he's a wolf per se, either, and especially now that it's become apparent he's not very well caught up. In my experience, wolves are just as often boldly pushing names as they are cute and cuddly,

Spoiler: show

I mean, they are. falcon's main D1 point doesn't really hold.

but what they try to do is to be up to date.

I don't think I can in good conscience vote for a 2-poster. Nobody can say whether they're scum or not based on two posts. So you know, I'm not reading that slot, but it is true that if they don't show up soon they'll have to be up for the chop. I'm just saying give them a chance to show up.

That's the most questionable bit about NAA, his easy-going willingness to lock wolfreads on nothing but literal thin air.

I think the worst posts of yesterday were Lime's burst, although NAI, and SonofAnarch's "you mean you think our interation is t/t" post, which was awkward.

However the more consistently not so great person is falcon. I like some of the things he said and he raised some valid points (like pointing out said weird SoA post), but it is true that he is mostly being contrarian and that's easy to fake.

A priori he seems a good wolf candidate as someone with some thread presence who gets noticed but not a lot of attention.

I am actually intrigued by TSP. Either he was TMIng sig or he just had the right idea. I lean towards the second, at least for now.

Generally I think there have been bad posts and people with bizarre moments but nobody who has been overtly or outright scummy. Kind of glad I got to avoid having to make a bad choice, although I think I would have leant falcon. There has to be at least one wolf in the towncore (why not two) but I wouldn't know where to look.

Also, I kow understand why Dyslexicon gets abbreviated to Dizzy instead of Dys. That was too many posts...

I think the worst posts of yesterday were Lime's burst, although NAI, and SonofAnarch's "you mean you think our interation is t/t" post, which was awkward.

However the more consistently not so great person is falcon. I like some of the things he said and he raised some valid points (like pointing out said weird SoA post), but it is true that he is mostly being contrarian and that's easy to fake.

A priori he seems a good wolf candidate as someone with some thread presence who gets noticed but not a lot of attention.

I am actually intrigued by TSP. Either he was TMIng sig or he just had the right idea. I lean towards the second, at least for now.

Generally I think there have been bad posts and people with bizarre moments but nobody who has been overtly or outright scummy. Kind of glad I got to avoid having to make a bad choice, although I think I would have leant falcon. There has to be at least one wolf in the towncore (why not two) but I wouldn't know where to look.

Also, I kow understand why Dyslexicon gets abbreviated to Dizzy instead of Dys. That was too many posts...

This is one of those posts that doesn't say much with a whole lot of words.

Well I guess I lied, SoA would be my first suspect for a deepwolf precisely because of that weird post. They were pretty good for the rest of the day though, so I wouldn't jump there immediately.

I think I've said lots of things.

If what you want is reads I think SoA and Lime Coke are probably the most dubious consensus town reads, Dolby is a good bean so I want to see him around more, and I don't have anything to judge G-Man by.

TSP and SPF are my lock townreads, then JJJ, you (Sloonei), Dizzy, probably NAA goes here, Ilario, Dolby, Limey/SoA, falcon, I have no read on G-Man... and I completely forgot Marmot existed. Is that normal?

Spoiler: show

It can't be normal

I think as stated yesterday, that JJJ and Sloonei are always the same alignment. Therefore, JJJ town.

Why is TSP alive is my biggest question. I'm not chopping an uncontested claim but still. I briefly voted G-Man after Dizzy's claim but I'm on No Vote as I try to sort out my thoughts.

I think in my first catch up post I already indicated SoA as a most likely wolf in the D1 towncore and D2 did not alleviate those suspicions so I am very happy to go there.

I always want to see more of Dolby, I stil feel like I haven't seen enough from him but I might need to bow to the consensus that he should be chopped.

I am very flip floppy on Falcon. He often feels performative but he also has many posts that ring honest.

I do not know G-Man.

I feel like J's PoE might contain up to three wolves rather than all four, but I really can't say who the fourth would be and who in the PoE would not be a wolf I think there's reasonable doubt on all of them to scum read them but also there is very little certainty.

Finally, I'm off

Spoiler: show

to watch Dune.

Anyway, I'm voting [VOTE: SonofAnarch] aubergine for now.

I don't know if I'm ready to call G-Man scum yet. I think he was put in an unfair position to work out of given his inability to participate at all Day 1, and his presumably limited time to contribute since.

That said, I'd prefer a yeet of Son of Anarch, Dolby, or falcon, not necessarily in that order. I think they all have a lot more working against them based on their own behavior.

My preferred chop is SoA, but I'm not going to go on a vanity wagon. I share your same concerns and I have voiced them repeatedly.

[VOTE: Son of Anarch] aubergine

Johanna's immediate reception of SoA when she joined the game was a negative one, albeit vaguely so. She didn't promote his demise necessarily, though she is clearly doing so on Day 3. I wouldn't say this is super conclusive, but if it points anywhere it points toward non-alignment.

From Son of Anarch

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Son of Anarch is an interesting case. I think that, on a holistic level, he looks pretty decent. There are some isolated moments where he might be a bit s t i l t e d though. I think I could even be reading him that way as a byproduct of his penchant for replacing the "ing" with " in' ". Replacin' as it were. I know that's dumb, but I'm just trying to make sense of a dumb concept like "stilted".

Still generally a town read, just with a bit more trepidation than some others have shown.

Hey Jimmy, I appreciate the town read n' all, even if it's comin' with some strings attached. Can ya maybe quote a post or two where ya feel I might be stilted?

(perhaps i should be taking a closer look at my read on Son Of Anarch - i wrote him off as town almost immediately when i have no idea what his range is like or how competent of a wolf he is)

I was having this thought just a moment before I read your post. My current stance is that Son of A Narc is town and perfectly agreeable and a helpful voice in the thread. But he's also new to me, but clearly not new to the game, and a player in that position could very quickly and easily disarm us if they know what buttons to push.

This is not something I would take action on right now, but it is something I would be mindful of if the game begins to take a shape that we do not like.

Hey man, I'm tellin' you all to be scared of me I'm not scum this game, but I can tell you all that I'm not half-bad.

Oh and by the way, I was kinda thinkin' about this earlier.

Isn't it better for the fruit vendor to claim right away? Basically an IC, yeah? Could have me (the watcher) go on 'em too. I know it's delayed mechanics and all, but still useful as long as I'm not killed.

And for everyone's efforts on this page, I'm gonna slap a small townread on all of you good folk right away. I'm warning ya though, my mind changes easily, but gettin' good vibes from this crowd. I like Jimmy's idea too, about Stayposi being naturally on guard about his early buddy-buddy with her. He seems like a good player, so I think her being naturally curious about all of that is pretty nice as far as ground zero reads go.

Hate this post, I’m always against claiming earlier especially d1

Weird callout. Especially since Anarch already established themselves as pro-mech claim where they claimed watcher. Just takes the call for fruit vendor to claim, which isn't bad, and strips away a past context which makes it look better.

Townreads Dizzy

Don't care about the response to the SPF stuff.

Also son of arch is just doing a very obvious omgus and salty that I disagree with others on his town rwae

would have to read for context

Basically the whole ISO is being defensive and talking about Anarch. I strongly dislike the sus on Anarch from sig, nor do I like that beyond the Dizzy toneread it's the only thing he's put out. There is space to improve since he hasn't backread but does not look good.

I appreciate your analysis here, Dolby. Keep sheepin' my reads and I'll take care of ya, although I gotta say, I kept confusin' you for ilario here because of the avatar.

I don't think any of the spoiled bits are that important and to be honest with you all, the quoting on this website is a bit difficult/hard to keep up, so I'm just gonna be talkin' about things without quotes and then if ya need me to quote for whatever reason, just ask me.

@ilario I think Marmot's recent posts are alright. It doesn't really sway me one way or the other. I guess you could say his posts are mostly safe, but not really that scummy t'me. I know that's kinda avoiding givin' a direct answer, but probably wouldn't feel comfortable labeling the dude one way or the other.

And Sloonei man, I honestly don't know what you're tryin' to say there. I get you don't want to enforce a read on Jimmy or make people think you have to follow your read, but I think from my perspective it seems pretty obvious that ya town read the guy. Reason bein' that you haven't really contested the triad idea, keep askin' leading questions that sorta attempt to guide people towards the read, and I don't think you'd give Jimmy this much thread control if ya thought the guy was scum, eh? So I don't get why you're makin' such a big deal about not givin' a read on him.

Dyslexicon had a good point earlier by the way. I know ya guys haven't ever played with me, but I think some of my posts here are pretty hard to fake as scum just in general. I'd listen to the good man here and town read me to make the game easier on you all Hah, but if you don't wanna that's okay too. I just wanna remind you all though that cowboys are good at catchin' criminals.

Also, I accept my place in the triad with you Ilario. I was readin' over your ISO earlier and I'm thinkin' you're just town. Reason being that I think some of your ideas and posts are just too whacky to be scum and your confidence is so fire. I know I said earlier confidence could be scum-indicative, but it's the kinda confidence that's enforced for the sake of pushin' the game along and not the kind of confidence I see a wolf present in order to be town read. Dyslexicon seems like a pretty cool dude as well, high-energy and all. Not that that makes someone town, but I've seen him present a few reads or push in a few directions that I feel like would be pretty ballsy to do, also everyone else seems to town read him and I doubt the whole thread would be wrong on that sorta read since he seems to be a regular on the site.

Here's a reads list for everyone's trouble by the way (it's not ordered between tiers):

Stayposi
Ilario
Jimmy
Dyslexicon
NAA

-------

Dolby
Sloonei
Marmot
Falcon

-------

G-man
Johanna

-------

Lime Coke
TSP

-------

sig

Hey you know what, I appreciate the compliment Johanna. Callin' me a potential deep wolf is pretty flatterin', but I dunno if I have it in me to deceive all you nice folk the way I have been.

Eh... If I had t'pick 4 people. Now that's really tough, but I'm gonna say right now it'd have to be...

Dizzy
Jimmy
Ilario

and for the fourth... I'm not too certain here. Maybe someone I haven't looked into too much but got good vibes from like Dolby or heck, even Johanna. That might be jumpin' the gun though. I think I'll slot Dolby in there.

I don't know if the Johanna, ilario, Dolby, G-Man team works though. That's all three of the 0-posters day 1 in one team, which seems unlikely. Although not impossible I guess due to how thread felt before they started postin'

Johanna opens in the SoA bottom five. That seems to undergo a stark change on Day 2, when she is a sort of "first alternate" on SoA's top town reads list just behind Dolby. The progression isn't there, and I tend to wonder if SoA gave up on the prospect of suspecting her given her general purity and improving thread presence. Take that with a grain of salt.

~~~

Do they fit?

I do wish I had a little more to talk about here. I think it looks okay from the SoA side and a little better than okay from the Johanna side with respect to dissociating the two of them, so that is where I will lean.

Do Dolby and Johanna fit together as mafia teammates?

From Johanna

Spoiler: show

Marmot not sus and I didn't care about much in his iso

Lolk. Could I interest you in a delicious choice of Sig, or are you eyeing anyone else? I see that you don't have a vote down. I'm not very interested in the Marmot wagon myself, and don't particularly understand it.

Yeah, but I want to see if something else has a scummier taste first

Let's wagon Johanna. It could be fun.

[VOTE: Johanna] aubergine

how about no?

Dizzy - looking back I think that some of the stuff that I'm worried about with JJJ applies here
falcon - don't remember a word they've said rn
G-man - same
ilario - towny, triad 2 posts better than posts near start of game
JJJ - have some level of paranoia towards here. This is most relevant in a world where G-Man and Jo are both town
Johanna - null. I don't think their day two entrance changes anything for me wrt to her either (there may be good JJJ points here). The only thing that looks even remotely bad is her characterization of TSP's behavior.
LC - vibes
Marmot - can be town
NAA - hank_scorpio_fire.gif
SOA - vibes
Sloonei - probs good
TSP - town (obv)

gn

Johanna is incredibly obvious town in meta btw

Illario noticing her towniness is a good look

TSP
NAA
Johanna - having played with Jo in dozens of games, and given that she isn't a fish out of water rn, I'm pretty confident in her confidence
Ilario - can explain more but something just tells me this isn't scum

idk who my next two town would be but they don't have the same level of confidence as the above

Johanna voting me and not saying anything at all about me, especially with my catch up posts, is kinda scummy from her.

Like she acknowledged it but like...at least give some kind of opinion?

Johanna is already pretty far out of scum meta imo.

Also sometimes she does just not interact with her SRs

@Dolby let's just simplify this to one basic question:

What's the difference between Sloonei and I that can allow your views to make sense? I am asking because I don't know, and only you can show me.

Sloonei doesn't look like he's trying to chainsaw tomorrow into me/GMan/Johanna

@Dolby let's just simplify this to one basic question:

What's the difference between Sloonei and I that can allow your views to make sense? I am asking because I don't know, and only you can show me.

Sloonei doesn't look like he's trying to chainsaw tomorrow into me/GMan/Johanna

If I was interested in a "chainsaw" I wouldn't bother talking about this with you right now. If I sound like an ego-maniac, it's because I am trying to make sense of something that I, entering the dialogue, think doesn't make sense from someone I suspect who is also voting for one of my town reads. I also think Johanna is probably town. I just have room in the POE pool for one more.

I recognize that you currently townread Johanna ftr, and have them top spot of the PoE. I don't like the day one discourse surrounding all three of our slots and how it's evolved today.

Can you tell me how LC's early posts felt like TMI?

3-3-4 what the fuck is going on?

Hi Jo I decided you are a paragon of towniness

Also there's no chance that JJJ is going over bc I'm 70% sure that Marmot is moving his vote at some point

The "how about no" beginning looks like TMI at a glance. That can be well-enough corroborated by what follows -- a vague "null" read with only positive content in it and then a cascade of "obvious town" kinds of reads. That progression doesn't look terribly associated to me. I'll see how it goes from the other direction.

From Johanna

Spoiler: show

I would appreciate NAA announcing his votes. :P

I mean I also feel pocket paranoia from ilario, but I don't know that it means anything real.

I would love to see more of Comrade Eternal President Dolby, but I haven't seen anything concerning from him atm. Waiting for more G-Man content, and nobody is being tangibly suspicious to my eyes.

If I should get the tinfoil hat I would say perhaps two people in the second triad

Spoiler: show

Dizzy, SoA, ilario

could be partnered wolves

Spoiler: show

or even Jay/Sloonei???

but I'd rather start looking for someone who is individually scummy, or conversely by confirming enough town,

Spoiler: show

but I don't trust myself there.

I always love me a good 7-way tie. @Dolby can attest to it.

Spoiler: show

but I was Mafia in that game.

Spoiler: show

although I do like ties regardless of alignment

Spoiler: show

but not this kind of tie.

I think I've said lots of things.

If what you want is reads I think SoA and Lime Coke are probably the most dubious consensus town reads, Dolby is a good bean so I want to see him around more, and I don't have anything to judge G-Man by.

TSP and SPF are my lock townreads, then JJJ, you (Sloonei), Dizzy, probably NAA goes here, Ilario, Dolby, Limey/SoA, falcon, I have no read on G-Man... and I completely forgot Marmot existed. Is that normal?

Spoiler: show

It can't be normal

Dolby.

and now I'm taking a break because I've been threadsitting for hours and this is exhausting.

To reiterate some things I've already said and some things I did not make clear but which other people have said:

I believe Jay/Sloonei are always the same alignment here.

I believe that there is a chance that either them or two of the second triad are partnered wolves

Spoiler: show

although most likely not.

Spoiler: show

But still there might be a wolf

Spoiler: show

and I mean SoA.

On a different note, I find it interesting that Lime Coke and G-Man both appeared to catch up almost simultaneously. It's probably just a coincidence

Spoiler: show

but I can't stop thinking about it.

I think that G-Man is finally here and we can actually throw reads on him. I'm interested how, in reference to the Jay/Sloonei partnership, they dissociate them completely. He has formed a list that is far from the consensus and that's something to evaluate

Spoiler: show

though I have no idea in which direction yet.

Lime Coke has had a bizarre couple pages worth of posts, I could vote there but I am extremely averse to uncontested wagons.

I find Jay's solve to be a good PoE to start from but I will not vote for Lime Coke without a competing wagon and I would like to hear more from the other suspects.

One salient thing is how Dolby has posted quite a bit, though not as much today, and has not seemed to have a great impact. I would expect more from him as either alignment.

Finally, on the idea of partnerships, I feel if LC is a wolf his vote on falcon might be an attempt at distancing. I'm not too clear on the progression towards that vote.

Does anyone specifically townread either Dolby or Lime Coke? Those two players seem to be consensus scumreads, or at least exist in everyone's POE's, except for each others.

Dolby has a vibe read of Lime Coke, and Lime Coke has Dolby just outside his POE.

Some people had some townread. I haven't really seen a reason to scumread them but I hope things will become a bit clearer now that he seems to have rejoined the thread.

One thing that I couldn't help but note about G-Man's list is that, also against consensus, Dolby was placed rather high up. Unless I am misremembering. These are associative pointers, I'm just not sure how to weigh them. I feel like right now Lime's D2 is the shakiest performance we have and they make a good candidate, so I'd rather start clearing the POE from there or falcon.

I think as stated yesterday, that JJJ and Sloonei are always the same alignment. Therefore, JJJ town.

Why is TSP alive is my biggest question. I'm not chopping an uncontested claim but still. I briefly voted G-Man after Dizzy's claim but I'm on No Vote as I try to sort out my thoughts.

I think in my first catch up post I already indicated SoA as a most likely wolf in the D1 towncore and D2 did not alleviate those suspicions so I am very happy to go there.

I always want to see more of Dolby, I stil feel like I haven't seen enough from him but I might need to bow to the consensus that he should be chopped.

I am very flip floppy on Falcon. He often feels performative but he also has many posts that ring honest.

I do not know G-Man.

I feel like J's PoE might contain up to three wolves rather than all four, but I really can't say who the fourth would be and who in the PoE would not be a wolf I think there's reasonable doubt on all of them to scum read them but also there is very little certainty.

Finally, I'm off

Spoiler: show

to watch Dune.

Dolby is a good wolf, yeah. I expect better from him as either alignment, I'm a bit confused and it's why I'm so reluctant. He can be pretty active and drive discussion as town and he can put up a very townie performance as a wolf.

He is a solid option, I just... want to see more of him. It feels rather unfair to me.

I think Marmot was in Stardew Hydra and I'm pretty sure that's it with regards to playing with other people still alive and posting. Other than Dolby. I don't want to think he's a woof.

The immediate and developing trend here is that Johanna expects more of Dolby than she has seen (regardless of alignment). His impact has been less than she anticipates. While that's not exactly a "suspicion", it can at least be interpreted as the absence of trust -- and I think it looks like a pretty authentic progression of perspectives. These don't look like views that have been informed by or sculpted by any other conversations happening outside this game thread. I also don't get the impression this progression aligns with Dolby's treatment of her; there's no sense of coordination or agenda.

~~~

Do they fit?

I don't think think they fit together as mafia teammates. If Dolby is mafia, I get the impression he views Johanna as a priority to deal with because they've more mutual familiarity than others have with either of them. So he has stuck the necessary town read on her literal town self to get and stay ingratiated, and she has not responded in kind (in a theoretical world where Dolby is mafia).

[Marmot]

@Dolby let's just simplify this to one basic question:

What's the difference between Sloonei and I that can allow your views to make sense? I am asking because I don't know, and only you can show me.

Sloonei doesn't look like he's trying to chainsaw tomorrow into me/GMan/Johanna

Posts like this in particular are pretty clearing for Johanna imo.

1) Dolby had been maintaining a TR of Jo for a while now.

2) I firmly believe G-Man was mafia, and normally when mafia make salad posts like this, they don't list only teammates in them. Some are brazen enough for that, but Dolby doesn't strike me as that kind of player.

[Marmot]

I have to run, will be back in a few hours.


But the spoiled content is good ilario. It's a compilation of all interactions between Dizzy/Jo and the mafia players in question. JJJ didn't get around to doing Dizzy/Dolby but I think he felt it was wasted work given the strong TR on Dizzy.

[G-Man]

The general attitude of “I don’t want to work hard at this today if you’re just going to chop me” is just another piece of evidence to me if Ilario’s guilt. You slacked and it’s crunch time. Put up or shut up. He’s still not going into his reasoning behind his thoughts. It’s just a lot of empty platitudes; it’s a facade.

Ilario, if you don’t work hard at this today, then you can’t possibly hope to have any shred of grace extended to you tomorrow after I flip town. If you are somehow civvie, then your efforts and attitude today will lead to an almost immediate hammer of you tomorrow, which all but means you’re accepting a town loss right here and now.

If you are chopped today instead of me, then I expect more or less the same result, but I don’t accept it as an inevitability. If you folks don’t hammer this phase out early, I plan to examine Falcon again through the combined lenses of Dolby and SOA. I might very well get chopped today but I don’t want the town to throw itself into dire straits by leaving two baddies alive when the hammer is likely to be just 4 votes. The more concrete a reason and an answer that I can leave for my thoughts and suspicions, the more likely I provide even just a sliver of daylight for the remaining civs to use to find that final baddie.

It is not our deaths that define us. Rather it is what we do in light of our impending death that reveals our purpose, our character, and our commitment to the cause and to the game.

[G-Man]

That all being said,[VOTE: Ilario] aubergine in case you folks do hammer early. As someone who tends to favor vote analysis, it feels gross to have so few votes recorded in this game.

My top-to-bottom list at this time:

1. Dizzy
2. Marmot
3. NAA
4. Johanna
5. Falcon
6. Ilario

If afforded the grace and time, I will continue my reviews this evening. I believe that the presence of four baddies in this Heist instead of the typical three requires us to let go of the archetypal dismissal of some possible teammate connections. The more baddies on a team, the more they have to diversify their approaches to one another.

[Dyslexicon]

Actually, just to make sure I have all bases covered I’ll cover fizzy too

@Dyslexicon can you talk me through your reads rn and your thought process behind your actions this game? I was a bit surprised when I saw you vote me today without waiting to here my thoughts first

That's a very wide question. I voted you pretty much because NAA asked me to and I felt that I wasn't voting you for stubborn reasons. I started to feel that it was pretty likely you were also mafia who had just kind of given up on the game and I think that feeling would've just grown if you hadn't shown up.

My reads are like this: Marmot is sure town for me. I think he's out of his scum range, and Jimmay confirmed this for me. I don't think Johanna fits well with Dolby. Maybe this is a ploy from Dolby's side, cause I do think the interaction looks worse from Johanna's side. But I also consider this: When Dolby and Soa were both up for chops, it seemed to me like Johanna actually had a preference or point of view around it that I don't think she would need to fake as mafia. This is both from memory and I don't really know if the argument really works, because everything can be faked of course. Actually, I think I'll go look into how people were acting around those chops, because I would expect mafia to care less than town at that point. Interested to hear what others thinks about this. But my main reason for thinking Johanna is town here is how Dolby interacted with her. NAA is someone I haven't seen as mafia, and that's not something I think is out of the realm of possibility here. But he also has good interactions with Dolby, I think he's helped push the game in the right direction, and he just feels genuine to me in his want for a town win. So that leaves you, G-Man and Falcon. Right now I'm thinking the team is most likely just G-Man and Falcon, like what I thought originally. What makes me doubt on Falcon is Jimmay's and Marmot's reads there, and he has had a PoE which assuming G-Man is mafia, includes three mafia. I don't know if he's a player who busses this hard (and got pushed back by known scum). So if Falcon is town, that leaves me with you or I've miscleared someone. But then who?

[Dyslexicon]

i have a highly specific thought about limecoke that is looking increasingly likely to be true the longer that this game goes on

No, take that back.

I will protect you, my love. Just swear your unending devotion and admiration. <3

Also dizzy can you talk me through your progression on LC, you wanted to protect him early game but if my memory serves me correct you didn’t provide that much opposition to him being voted out on d2, was there a particular reason why your stance changed?

I think it's pretty obvious that the post you're quoting is said in jest. My actual progression on Lime went back and forth, and in the end I was just wrong. I also considered you and SPF were both feeling like he was a hit as well and you knew him. Which is not to place blame, but that's something I took into account.

[Dyslexicon]

Everyone reads SPF town. So maybe I should just read SPF town. It's very much possible she is just town.

I wouldn’t sponge my spf read this early fwiw

I tend to overplay my confidence in my early reads

My only tr that I genuinely believe is very unlikely to be mafia is soa

I’d say with the others im varying between 50-70% in confidence

I mean, that doesn't help lol. But yes, early reads be early reads. I have had a tendency to be overly critical of players I'm afraid are mafia, and I'm actively trying not to do that in this game, since I've noticed this trend when playing with people like Jimmay and spf. Employing a strategy of "good enough for now anyway" is probably ok in this game, as it feels to me now. If that makes sense.

What made you Want to change your approach for this game specifically?

It's not about this game specifically, it's something I've noticed for a long time. But I've tinfoiled and barked pretty hard at both Jimmay and SPF early game before, because I'm afraid that they are mafia and feel like it's my job to suss them out if they are (because I may not have a chance to later - forgot about the poison mechanic in this game). And I actually did bark at SPF a little bit, but I feel that was pretty justified tbh lol. I was leaning in on other people's read on SPF and Jimmay, because I know that there are others here that read these players better than I do. Sloonei, I think I can read pretty well actually. But yeah, it wasn't really about this specific game, but there are specific players here I've had this tendency towards earlier.

[Dyslexicon]

Now the obvious answer to everyone is that ilario did it because she might catch him. That reasoning doesn’t work because I know I’m town and also, that’s not how I think as mafia. So one thing I’ve been looking for as I catch up is why was spf the first to be targeted.

How do you think about this as mafia?

[Dyslexicon]

jaggedjimmyjay
sloonei
dyslexicon
sonofanarch
illario
lime coke
notanaxehole
dolby
johanna
g-man
falcon
TSP
marmot
sig

rough snapshot of where my brain is at. i feel good about jagged/sloonei/dizzy/sonofanarch being villagers, and in a world where there is a wolf within these names, i believe that it would only be one. i townread limecoke/illario as well - i think that limecoke has consistently gotten more and more villagery as the day has gone on, and i think that illario has been villagery from the moment the game started - the only reason he isn't in my "confident town" tier is because i know how strong his wolf game is, and how bad i can be at reading him lol

falcon has made no impression on me so far. TSP is mildly wolfy solely because his posts don't make sense to me.

marmot is low in my list because as much as i love the GIF in https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 76#p855876, i think the way marmot talks about TSP feels overly hedgy/cautious. sig is low in my list for obvious reasons

i do not think this is The Solve, and looking at this list more, i actually suspect i'm misreading someone in my list of towns (perhaps i should be taking a closer look at my read on Son Of Anarch - i wrote him off as town almost immediately when i have no idea what his range is like or how competent of a wolf he is), but i think it's a good enough place to start. current feeling is that there's a wolf or two in the bottom 4 names and then another wolf or two in the zero posters, and then one final wolf in the upper tier. that might an overtly convoluted way to explain my reads, but it's just how i'm looking at the game rn

AMA

if this was the EOD my vote would be on sig right now, but in the name of having competing wagons:

[VOTE: marmot] aubergine

These are the posts I refer to, spf has marmot second lowest in her list and even votes him after.

I do recall jjj and others having marmot as a confident tr when they died, so maybe I’m reading too much into this, but for now I’m just gonna note this and move on

If Marmot is scum this game I'm ready to just say nice fucking job. Maybe I'm disrespecting his play here, but I just don't think Marmot would be able to fool me, Sloonei and Jimmay this hard as scum. I've seen him as both town and scum several times, and my view of his scum game is that he's much more sparse and relies heavily on wifom for protection. His play here is more cut to the chase with a lot more solving, and it's also been good solving. He was on Soa before most of us for example.

The fact that SPF was killed could've just been to dodge watcher or it could be for some other random reasons. This is the thing about NK targets, we don't really know why they happened before after the game. I'm not really into speculating too much about kills, but I do think both me and Jimmay were likely targets for the watcher, so I could easily see mafia targeting away from us for that reason.

[Dyslexicon]

Yeah that's not a very persuasive argument, sadly.

I know I just argued this, but curious to see why you think this tbh

[Dyslexicon]

Is this day 1?

No, that was D3 =p

[Dyslexicon]

The thing about the questions not being helpful is, read and make up your mind on what you're doing before polling the thread to get a feel of where the game state is. I know for a fact not everyone has the same PoE, so it's important to not have you poke around to figure out which band wagon to jump on, rather instead you present your conclusion and then if it's absolutely required, we discuss. Like, the fact is, mafia knowing the full game state going into potential LyLo is dangerous unless we can near-guarantee a win.

See, this is the kind of thing that makes me think NAA is town. I think I'm getting more a grasp of his play style as well.

[Dyslexicon]

I would replace diZy with marmot

Ok but why?

[Dyslexicon]

Scum-dizzy?

[Dyslexicon]

My heart wants to believe dizzy is town, but he has the least going for him in terms of spew. He has pushed a lot of villagers too. The fact he voted me today before I spoke pinged me.

I want him to be town, I really do, but if I’m looking at the game objectively I have to say that falcon marmot and naa have better reasons to be labeled as town from the part of the game that I’m upto

Why does it ping you? NAA told me he prefer you. I didn't really want to, but then I thought I was being kind of a baby not listening to Jimmay and NAA. And the fact is that you were not here for a long time, and while you say you wouldn't do that as mafia, that's not really something I can confirm and also not something I thought at the time.

You pulled out quotes from me earlier that you called not w/w with flipped mafia. It kind of just looks like you're poking in different directions right now.

I of course want you to be town, I want everyone to be town to be frank, in every game, but especially you in this game. But this does not really fill me with confidence, cause I'm not sure how you're getting here other than apparently me voting you pinged you.

[Dyslexicon]

Question: you, SoS, and dizzy all voted for falcon Day 1. Why do you now tr falcon and suspect dizzy?

Because soa tried to vote falcon eod d1. Soa was pushing villagers like LC all of d1 If you read his iso, which gives me the impression he was trying to powerwolf. Two hours before eod he joins a push and labels it the falcon killers. There is no reason for soa to push his partner, falcon, when sig was already set to be miseliminated

The reason could be because I asked him to. He had to say either no or yes. It's not like he chose to move there on his own. I also feel like the Sig wagon was pretty set at the time, but I don't really think that vote is clearing. Dolby's vote on Falcon may be a little bit more clearing actually.

[Dyslexicon]

It’s 1am my time so that’s my last post for today, I apologise for being rude earlier but it’s just tilting to spend so much time trying to solve the game and have it received the way it was. But that’s a me problem and I shouldn’t have reacted that way

I want you to know this: Whatever alignment you are, I greatly enjoy playing with you, so so much!

[Dyslexicon]

If you're town and g-man and falcon are scum, you've got nothing to lose if we continue to work through the poe.

I'd just like to encourage you to look at those suspects first before branching out to the rest of the game. That is who the thread has generally agreed are the top suspects (along with you)

Read my posts.

My first post I said I don’t think falcon is mafia

That’s why I think the poe is bad

It has me and falcon and I don’t scumread falcon

I honestly don’t get why I’m bothering with this if my posts aren’t being read

It also says you're confident in Dizzy being town.

Yes it did. However, My reasons to tr falcon over there were game related, my reasons to tr dizzy were not.

After that post I began to read the game from d1. More reasons to tr falcon popped up, some reasons to tr naa popped up, some reasons to tr you popped up.

No reasons to tr gman or Johanna popped up.

Almost the entire reason I had to tr dizzy this game was based on mindmelding a lot and the fact that I find him very likeable.

As I read d1 I also noticed that some of the reads/posts that I was mindmelding with dizzy on were takes of mine that were incorrect. So it’s not impossible that dizzy as scum saw that and tried to pocket me. And if he did, then wp to him he did a good job at it.

I have probably done a disservice to his scum game by townrrading him so easily. I heard that hally, who is a really skilled player, played with him as town a lot and she felt confident in her ability to read him, and the first time he flipped scum on her he tricked her hard. So I have no doubt he has a strong scum game. I don’t want to lose this game because I did not give enough respect to dizzys play.

This post isn’t to say that I think he has to be scum, it’s to say that the reasons I trd him are not game related and I’ve been realizing that as I catch up.

I do have a good scum game, but honestly it's not that good, not in a way were I can actually replicate my town play. Not in the way of supporting a good PoE (Yes, we got unlucky at first, but I still firmly believe the PoE established was pretty good, and half of that is proven already), bringing this much energy into a game, playing with other town players that know me well in a way that they know I'm town. I split and make the game sour as mafia. If you want an example, you can see my recent scum game here (Basic Mafia) or Marmot could probably tell you stories.

[Dyslexicon]

Anyway, I think we just chop G-Man and go from there. Most of his posts this day has been scum reading Ilario, and I just feel his casing is very constructed. I don't think this really says much about Ilario's alignment though. Like, it could be last minute distancing, but it could also easily be him trying to get the counter wagon chopped over himself.

[Dyslexicon]

The general attitude of “I don’t want to work hard at this today if you’re just going to chop me” is just another piece of evidence to me if Ilario’s guilt. You slacked and it’s crunch time. Put up or shut up. He’s still not going into his reasoning behind his thoughts. It’s just a lot of empty platitudes; it’s a facade.

Ilario, if you don’t work hard at this today, then you can’t possibly hope to have any shred of grace extended to you tomorrow after I flip town. If you are somehow civvie, then your efforts and attitude today will lead to an almost immediate hammer of you tomorrow, which all but means you’re accepting a town loss right here and now.

If you are chopped today instead of me, then I expect more or less the same result, but I don’t accept it as an inevitability. If you folks don’t hammer this phase out early, I plan to examine Falcon again through the combined lenses of Dolby and SOA. I might very well get chopped today but I don’t want the town to throw itself into dire straits by leaving two baddies alive when the hammer is likely to be just 4 votes. The more concrete a reason and an answer that I can leave for my thoughts and suspicions, the more likely I provide even just a sliver of daylight for the remaining civs to use to find that final baddie.

It is not our deaths that define us. Rather it is what we do in light of our impending death that reveals our purpose, our character, and our commitment to the cause and to the game.

Yeah, G-Man is just mafia here. Haven't really heard the reasons for his thoughts much either, other than Ilario today, which he's accusing Ilario of. I don't even know why I'm his top town. If I were to bet, I'd say this post feels like G-man scum and Ilario town tbh

[Dyslexicon]

[VOTE: G-Man] aubergine

L-1 now

[Dyslexicon]

Dolby is a good wolf, yeah. I expect better from him as either alignment, I'm a bit confused and it's why I'm so reluctant. He can be pretty active and drive discussion as town and he can put up a very townie performance as a wolf.

He is a solid option, I just... want to see more of him. It feels rather unfair to me.

This reluctance to vote Dolby, while later being ok to vote Soa doesn't make sense to me if Johanna is mafia. Especially since I think Dolby was leading the votes at that time (not entirely sure). Why refuse to vote one teammate while wanting to vote the other? I mean, I guess there could be some scum chat logic to it or what not, but that's speculative at best.

[Dyslexicon]

Nobody is here rip

I'm doing a sleep thing. I'm good with hammering whenever.

[Dyslexicon]

@TonyStarkPrime Hi this game exists btw. You're and IC now, and wagon is on L-1. So if you want to say something, sooner is probably better than later.

[G-Man]

This is the way the game ends
This is the way the game ends
This is the way the game ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.

[TonyStarkPrime]

huh

[TonyStarkPrime]

glgl

[TonyStarkPrime]

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Gman (5): Johanna, Marmot, axe, dizzy, tsp
Ilario (2): falcon, gman
Not voting (1): illario

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Flavor later, gman flips sleepwalker, tsp flips fruit vendor

Sod in about 24 hours

@Dyslexicon
@falcon45ca
@ilario
@Johanna
@Marmot
@NotAnAxehole

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Gman flips Martin, sleepwalker



Tsp flips bus rodent, fruit vendor

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

@Marmot has been poisoned and will die at eod

Hammer is at 4, eod is september 25, 5pm edt

@Dyslexicon
@falcon45ca
@ilario
@Johanna
@NotAnAxehole