Mafia Syndicate Normal Game 0 - Day 5

[TonyStarkPrime]

Until @Dragon D. Luffy and @falcon45ca respectively respond to my inquiry, let's play a little game...

If DDL and Falcon are masons together, and you believe that Wilgy's death is in some way a confirmation of my town status, then the other four players in the game all have their POE of three to push forward with if you are town as well:

Town @Lime Coke POE of 3:
-Nanook
-sprityo
-Tony


Town @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME POE of 3:
-Lime Coke
-sprityo
-Tony


Town @sprityo POE of 3:
-Lime Coke
-Nanook
-Tony


Town @TonyStarkPrime POE of 3:
-Lime Coke
-Nanook
-sprityo


Given those respective POE's, I'd like each of the four of you to put your POE of 3 into a preferred chop order.

i don't accept the "if" statement and that's technically wolfy but I also just flat don't accept it

[TonyStarkPrime]

operating contingently though I'll say that i think the nanook wagon is currently wolfier than the sprityo wagon (sprityo wagon has both masons) and I'll switch to keep LC from having voting power over it since mathematically that means bad things

[TonyStarkPrime]

though honestly tbh if lc shows up and votes for nanook I'll hold my guns but if he's not going to I'll switch just because

[G-Man]

Until @Dragon D. Luffy and @falcon45ca respectively respond to my inquiry, let's play a little game...

If DDL and Falcon are masons together, and you believe that Wilgy's death is in some way a confirmation of my town status, then the other four players in the game all have their POE of three to push forward with if you are town as well:

Town @Lime Coke POE of 3:
-Nanook
-sprityo
-Tony


Town @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME POE of 3:
-Lime Coke
-sprityo
-Tony


Town @sprityo POE of 3:
-Lime Coke
-Nanook
-Tony


Town @TonyStarkPrime POE of 3:
-Lime Coke
-Nanook
-sprityo


Given those respective POE's, I'd like each of the four of you to put your POE of 3 into a preferred chop order.

i don't accept the "if" statement and that's technically wolfy but I also just flat don't accept it

Unsure what you mean here. Are you saying that you don't yet accept a world where DDL and Falcon are not masons? Or do you not yet accept a world where they are masons?

[TonyStarkPrime]

i'm saying i don't accept that wilgy's death is in any way a confirmation of your town status

[TonyStarkPrime]

and also that I'm not 100 percent on trusting the mason claim but whatever I'm basically 100 percent on it

[falcon45ca]

and also that I'm not 100 percent on trusting the mason claim but whatever I'm basically 100 percent on it

Why Nook over sprityo?

[G-Man]

Unsure of my direction after some ISO work. There are seven of us left. Two of us are mafia. I know that I am town. That leaves two mafia among the six of you. All I need is a POE of three and we win. If the backup mason duo of DDL and Falcon is legit, then it reduces my POE to four. This would mean I just need to identify one more town role and we will be on the path to victory.

@Dragon D. Luffy and @falcon45ca: explain to me (preferably one at a time) how you know your role to work.

Sure.

I was told I was backup mason. After NAA died, I was put into a BTSC w/ DDL, the same one NAA had before they died. He talked to himself a little, and then DDL & I joined and have been chatting since

Under this premise, you are also suggesting that NAA did not have a BTSC partner in his mason chat prior to death?

[TonyStarkPrime]

idk

[falcon45ca]

Unsure of my direction after some ISO work. There are seven of us left. Two of us are mafia. I know that I am town. That leaves two mafia among the six of you. All I need is a POE of three and we win. If the backup mason duo of DDL and Falcon is legit, then it reduces my POE to four. This would mean I just need to identify one more town role and we will be on the path to victory.

@Dragon D. Luffy and @falcon45ca: explain to me (preferably one at a time) how you know your role to work.

Sure.

I was told I was backup mason. After NAA died, I was put into a BTSC w/ DDL, the same one NAA had before they died. He talked to himself a little, and then DDL & I joined and have been chatting since

Under this premise, you are also suggesting that NAA did not have a BTSC partner in his mason chat prior to death?

He did not

[TonyStarkPrime]

and also that I'm not 100 percent on trusting the mason claim but whatever I'm basically 100 percent on it

Why Nook over sprityo?

i'll run both isos if I have time later tonight and make a choice but I think they're just always the next two flips and I would like to have info over whether Gman is more or less likely to be a wolf

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Unsure of my direction after some ISO work. There are seven of us left. Two of us are mafia. I know that I am town. That leaves two mafia among the six of you. All I need is a POE of three and we win. If the backup mason duo of DDL and Falcon is legit, then it reduces my POE to four. This would mean I just need to identify one more town role and we will be on the path to victory.

@Dragon D. Luffy and @falcon45ca: explain to me (preferably one at a time) how you know your role to work.

The theory:

There may or may not be one or more masons in the game.

If a mason dies and I'm still alive, I become a mason. If there are any other masons in the game when that happens, I join them in BTSC and get mod confirmation of their innocence. If any other backup masons exist, they also join the same BTSC.

The practice:

Me and falcon are backup masons. NAA was a mason. So his death triggered us both being added to the BTSC chat that NAA originally belonged to.

Normal games may only have townie masons, so I'm 100% sure falcon is town.

Under your premise, NAA (the known mason) did not have a BTSC partner with him in the chat?

He didn't. He could have had, the rules allow for it. But Urist only made one regular mason role.

Meaning town got super lucky since mafia's first NK was aimed at a role that needed to die to become useful.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

It doesn't matter what order they go in as long as they go

Even if you know you are town, we don't, so going out of your way to make it harder for us to trust you doesn't help your stated goal of not being yeeted to win the game.

[G-Man]

Unsure of my direction after some ISO work. There are seven of us left. Two of us are mafia. I know that I am town. That leaves two mafia among the six of you. All I need is a POE of three and we win. If the backup mason duo of DDL and Falcon is legit, then it reduces my POE to four. This would mean I just need to identify one more town role and we will be on the path to victory.

@Dragon D. Luffy and @falcon45ca: explain to me (preferably one at a time) how you know your role to work.

The theory:

There may or may not be one or more masons in the game.

If a mason dies and I'm still alive, I become a mason. If there are any other masons in the game when that happens, I join them in BTSC and get mod confirmation of their innocence. If any other backup masons exist, they also join the same BTSC.

The practice:

Me and falcon are backup masons. NAA was a mason. So his death triggered us both being added to the BTSC chat that NAA originally belonged to.

Normal games may only have townie masons, so I'm 100% sure falcon is town.

Under your premise, NAA (the known mason) did not have a BTSC partner with him in the chat?

He didn't. He could have had, the rules allow for it. But Urist only made one regular mason role.

Meaning town got super lucky since mafia's first NK was aimed at a role that needed to die to become useful.

Until NAA died, did you know that either NAA or Falcon was a fellow mason?

@falcon45ca- until NAA died, did you know that either NAA or DDL was a fellow mason?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Nanook is giving me "too scummy to be scum" vibes.

The last two times I thought he was too scummy to be scum, he was scum.

Being fooled 3 consecutive times by the same play is not something I intend to allow.

[VOTE: nanook] aubergine

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Unsure of my direction after some ISO work. There are seven of us left. Two of us are mafia. I know that I am town. That leaves two mafia among the six of you. All I need is a POE of three and we win. If the backup mason duo of DDL and Falcon is legit, then it reduces my POE to four. This would mean I just need to identify one more town role and we will be on the path to victory.

@Dragon D. Luffy and @falcon45ca: explain to me (preferably one at a time) how you know your role to work.

The theory:

There may or may not be one or more masons in the game.

If a mason dies and I'm still alive, I become a mason. If there are any other masons in the game when that happens, I join them in BTSC and get mod confirmation of their innocence. If any other backup masons exist, they also join the same BTSC.

The practice:

Me and falcon are backup masons. NAA was a mason. So his death triggered us both being added to the BTSC chat that NAA originally belonged to.

Normal games may only have townie masons, so I'm 100% sure falcon is town.

Under your premise, NAA (the known mason) did not have a BTSC partner with him in the chat?

He didn't. He could have had, the rules allow for it. But Urist only made one regular mason role.

Meaning town got super lucky since mafia's first NK was aimed at a role that needed to die to become useful.

Until NAA died, did you know that either NAA or Falcon was a fellow mason?

@falcon45ca- until NAA died, did you know that either NAA or DDL was a fellow mason?

Nope.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

G-Man with the OCD vote.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

It doesn't matter what order they go in as long as they go

Even if you know you are town, we don't, so going out of your way to make it harder for us to trust you doesn't help your stated goal of not being yeeted to win the game.

I can randomly order the names if me pretending to care about the order helps you read me somehow

Somehow I doubt it will

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Like if you have questions or whatever that's fine and I'm happy to answer or engage or whatever

But I mean

I'm not gonna pretend to care about the order when the order does not matter at all for me lol

[G-Man]

Unsure of my direction after some ISO work. There are seven of us left. Two of us are mafia. I know that I am town. That leaves two mafia among the six of you. All I need is a POE of three and we win. If the backup mason duo of DDL and Falcon is legit, then it reduces my POE to four. This would mean I just need to identify one more town role and we will be on the path to victory.

@Dragon D. Luffy and @falcon45ca: explain to me (preferably one at a time) how you know your role to work.

Sure.

I was told I was backup mason. After NAA died, I was put into a BTSC w/ DDL, the same one NAA had before they died. He talked to himself a little, and then DDL & I joined and have been chatting since

Under this premise, you are also suggesting that NAA did not have a BTSC partner in his mason chat prior to death?

He did not

Unmodified mason is not a possible role for NAA in light of both responses by DDL and Falcon.

According to the MafiaScum Wiki that this game is based on, a "Normal" mason is as follows:

A Mason group is a set of players who can communicate (via a shared Private Topic), and who know that every member of the group is Town. In Normal games, Masons are absolutely 100% Town; just as with the Mafia's private communication, it is up to the moderator whether the Private Topic is usable both Day and Night, or at Night only (although an Encryptor in the masonry will of course allow it to be used at any time regardless of the decision).

It is possible for multiple independent masonries to exist in the same game. A masonry must contain at least two players (as players know their own alignment and can already talk to themselves).

A solo mason with no partner, whose death creates a new masonry, isn't a mason at all. They are simply an enabler. If this is a "Normal" game, then I would expect it to follow the "Normal" structure for a "Normal" role. If NAA was this enabling role, then either his classification as a mason is incorrect and misleading or this game's classification as "Normal" is incorrect and misleading.

As such, I can't eliminate from my mind that DDL and Falcon could be running a gambit as the last two remaining mafia. This makes winning the game much harder.

[sprityo]

Until @Dragon D. Luffy and @falcon45ca respectively respond to my inquiry, let's play a little game...

If DDL and Falcon are masons together, and you believe that Wilgy's death is in some way a confirmation of my town status, then the other four players in the game all have their POE of three to push forward with if you are town as well:

Least to most? I did a sweep of the ISOs and here is my decision

Lime Coke
TSP
Nanook

[sprityo]

As such, I can't eliminate from my mind that DDL and Falcon could be running a gambit as the last two remaining mafia. This makes winning the game much harder.

god you and me both

[sprityo]

Ah, I don't really see a reason to not reveal this...game away if ya don't like the play.


There are masons in this game.


I know this cuz I'm a backup Mason, I become one should one of them die


The primary masons need not reveal themselves tho, I figure the backups life is worth less

@G-Man luckily this was during day 1 so the odds that it's a gambit are minimal in my mind.

I would be thoroughly disappointed if all town had for a power role was a singular mason and nothing else.

[sprityo]

I guess all that's left is @Lime Coke voting? masons are split voting (I would assume on purpose).

let's pray it's not actually TSP and Limecoke who are the mafia

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Anyways if you want an idea of my preferred order look at who I'm voting lol

[TonyStarkPrime]

Did gman and DDL switch or am I hallucinating

[Lime Coke]

I'll get a vote up. Not feeling great at the moment I'll get my vote up I'm not avoiding this game on purpose I just can't be in this mentally at all.

[falcon45ca]

Unsure of my direction after some ISO work. There are seven of us left. Two of us are mafia. I know that I am town. That leaves two mafia among the six of you. All I need is a POE of three and we win. If the backup mason duo of DDL and Falcon is legit, then it reduces my POE to four. This would mean I just need to identify one more town role and we will be on the path to victory.

@Dragon D. Luffy and @falcon45ca: explain to me (preferably one at a time) how you know your role to work.

The theory:

There may or may not be one or more masons in the game.

If a mason dies and I'm still alive, I become a mason. If there are any other masons in the game when that happens, I join them in BTSC and get mod confirmation of their innocence. If any other backup masons exist, they also join the same BTSC.

The practice:

Me and falcon are backup masons. NAA was a mason. So his death triggered us both being added to the BTSC chat that NAA originally belonged to.

Normal games may only have townie masons, so I'm 100% sure falcon is town.

Under your premise, NAA (the known mason) did not have a BTSC partner with him in the chat?

He didn't. He could have had, the rules allow for it. But Urist only made one regular mason role.

Meaning town got super lucky since mafia's first NK was aimed at a role that needed to die to become useful.

Until NAA died, did you know that either NAA or Falcon was a fellow mason?

@falcon45ca- until NAA died, did you know that either NAA or DDL was a fellow mason?

No clue.


Found it damn hilarious that NAA was a solo Mason tho

[falcon45ca]

As such, I can't eliminate from my mind that DDL and Falcon could be running a gambit as the last two remaining mafia. This makes winning the game much harder.

god you and me both

Yeah, but I claimed backup mason before NAA flipped.


How do I do that as Maf?



Also, I never fake claim. Ever

[sprityo]

As such, I can't eliminate from my mind that DDL and Falcon could be running a gambit as the last two remaining mafia. This makes winning the game much harder.

god you and me both

Yeah, but I claimed backup mason before NAA flipped.


How do I do that as Maf?



Also, I never fake claim. Ever

yeah i already addressed this

[G-Man]

As such, I can't eliminate from my mind that DDL and Falcon could be running a gambit as the last two remaining mafia. This makes winning the game much harder.

god you and me both

Yeah, but I claimed backup mason before NAA flipped.


How do I do that as Maf?



Also, I never fake claim. Ever

Understandable move for a baddie to make an early claim like that because it 1) allows for a teammate to glom on and use it as a screen later via mason misdirection, and 2) the backup mason status is hard for anyone to refute unless a primary mason (or in this case the mason-enabling role) actually knows the identities of the backups. It's a claim that sticks your neck out there with minimal likelihood that it can be fully contradicted.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Unsure of my direction after some ISO work. There are seven of us left. Two of us are mafia. I know that I am town. That leaves two mafia among the six of you. All I need is a POE of three and we win. If the backup mason duo of DDL and Falcon is legit, then it reduces my POE to four. This would mean I just need to identify one more town role and we will be on the path to victory.

@Dragon D. Luffy and @falcon45ca: explain to me (preferably one at a time) how you know your role to work.

Sure.

I was told I was backup mason. After NAA died, I was put into a BTSC w/ DDL, the same one NAA had before they died. He talked to himself a little, and then DDL & I joined and have been chatting since

Under this premise, you are also suggesting that NAA did not have a BTSC partner in his mason chat prior to death?

He did not

Unmodified mason is not a possible role for NAA in light of both responses by DDL and Falcon.

According to the MafiaScum Wiki that this game is based on, a "Normal" mason is as follows:

A Mason group is a set of players who can communicate (via a shared Private Topic), and who know that every member of the group is Town. In Normal games, Masons are absolutely 100% Town; just as with the Mafia's private communication, it is up to the moderator whether the Private Topic is usable both Day and Night, or at Night only (although an Encryptor in the masonry will of course allow it to be used at any time regardless of the decision).

It is possible for multiple independent masonries to exist in the same game. A masonry must contain at least two players (as players know their own alignment and can already talk to themselves).

A solo mason with no partner, whose death creates a new masonry, isn't a mason at all. They are simply an enabler. If this is a "Normal" game, then I would expect it to follow the "Normal" structure for a "Normal" role. If NAA was this enabling role, then either his classification as a mason is incorrect and misleading or this game's classification as "Normal" is incorrect and misleading.

As such, I can't eliminate from my mind that DDL and Falcon could be running a gambit as the last two remaining mafia. This makes winning the game much harder.

Heh.

@Urist you got exposed.

[G-Man]

Ultimately, I was trying to use this NAA post to my advantage to either confirm or contradict the DDL-Falcon masonry claim.

@Dolby
@falcon45ca
@fingersplints
@sig
@sprityo
@TonyStarkPrime

This probably contains most / all of the mafia.

Falcon claimed to be backup mason D1. Also in D1, NAA listed Falcon in his POE.

What I was hoping for was that DDL would claim to have had mason BTSC with NAA on D1 and then Falcon got brought into that BTSC chat as the backup. That would have given me 100% trust in the DDL-Falcon masonry because NAA had Falcon but not DDL in his POE. After all my pressing, I didn't get the confirmation that I was looking for.

So now it's back to the drawing board.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

As such, I can't eliminate from my mind that DDL and Falcon could be running a gambit as the last two remaining mafia. This makes winning the game much harder.

god you and me both

Yeah, but I claimed backup mason before NAA flipped.


How do I do that as Maf?



Also, I never fake claim. Ever

Understandable move for a baddie to make an early claim like that because it 1) allows for a teammate to glom on and use it as a screen later via mason misdirection, and 2) the backup mason status is hard for anyone to refute unless a primary mason (or in this case the mason-enabling role) actually knows the identities of the backups. It's a claim that sticks your neck out there with minimal likelihood that it can be fully contradicted.

It's an insane claim for mafia to make without knowing that there's only one mason lol, cause if there were two masons then they'd be outed after the first one dies.

[falcon45ca]

As such, I can't eliminate from my mind that DDL and Falcon could be running a gambit as the last two remaining mafia. This makes winning the game much harder.

god you and me both

Yeah, but I claimed backup mason before NAA flipped.


How do I do that as Maf?



Also, I never fake claim. Ever

Understandable move for a baddie to make an early claim like that because it 1) allows for a teammate to glom on and use it as a screen later via mason misdirection, and 2) the backup mason status is hard for anyone to refute unless a primary mason (or in this case the mason-enabling role) actually knows the identities of the backups. It's a claim that sticks your neck out there with minimal likelihood that it can be fully contradicted.

It's an insane claim for mafia to make without knowing that there's only one mason lol, cause if there were two masons then they'd be outed after the first one dies.

Pretty much.


And while I may be crazy, I'm not insane

[sprityo]

How will tony look if nanook goes over?

like if town looks X and if mafia looks X?

[sprityo]

because the votes are split:

1 mason
1 self preservation

with G-Man being functionally cleared and on my wagon and TSP who is in the PoE on Nanook

[sprityo]

because I know for a fact, I am town. and when I flip town Nanook can claim self preservation and try to push lime coke since that's the only other person on the wagon who isnt viewed as really town

[falcon45ca]

[VOTE: Nook] aubergine

[sprityo]

[VOTE: Nook] aubergine

what's up with the change of mind?

[falcon45ca]

[VOTE: Nook] aubergine

what's up with the change of mind?

I'm feelin' sassy

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

because I know for a fact, I am town. and when I flip town Nanook can claim self preservation and try to push lime coke since that's the only other person on the wagon who isnt viewed as really town

It's not self prez it's just a locked poe

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

My vote was on you before yours was on me too, so not sure how it woild be self prez anyways

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Like if you have questions or whatever that's fine and I'm happy to answer or engage or whatever

But I mean

I'm not gonna pretend to care about the order when the order does not matter at all for me lol

I could argue but if you don't care why should I

See you next game I guess.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Like if you have questions or whatever that's fine and I'm happy to answer or engage or whatever

But I mean

I'm not gonna pretend to care about the order when the order does not matter at all for me lol

I could argue but if you don't care why should I

See you next game I guess.

I mean I don't have to care, the poe is locked for me. You don't have that luxury

[sprityo]

My vote was on you before yours was on me too, so not sure how it woild be self prez anyways

your vote was on first! i literally said so!

I guess if NANOOK insists on voting me I must oblige him

[sprityo]

I may have misread that, im going back into the box

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I think TSP and sprit are probably the more likely team, was hoping to see lime's vote before committing to/outing that, but yeah, I think tsp and sprit are the more viable team. There's not really anything stopping lime from being mafia in a vacuum, I just don't think he's as likely given pairing stuff. Particularly with votes today. So that's how I have it ordered. tsp/sprit even and lime behind them.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

TSP in particular trying to expand the poe while also voting me within the poe reads less as a genuine belief that mafia may have done something fucky and more as an attempt to wriggle out of a semi-locked poe, which makes more sense to me if his partner is sprit vs if it's lime

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

That is an argument for killing tsp first but I considered sprit more viable and I'm like

80% sure they're just the team anyways, so