Anniversary Game 1 - Classic Syndicate [Day 9]

[bea]

I guess that losing the Cipher is awkward.
gg Lora
Sadly the rez only works on nightkills afaik.

Good thing bea and kate can talk normally.

@ Kate

What's your case on DH?
__________________________________


Nice idea with the coloured sentences, I'll steal it.

As for bea: I have some questions about sentences I find a bit vague, if you could expound a bit please.

1. I have zero remembrance of you getting thrown off by Golden on D1. Going over your ISO you mostly have positive mentions on D1. Where did Golden throw you off and what did you understand about where he was coming from?
2. This is a strange angle to townread both quinn and shloon. You are basing it on the alignments of kate, dh, llama and golden being assumed town. Do you have that sort of confidence about them ?

1) It is the mostly part, he made my gut feel like something was off. Hence 1 eye. I was not joking about having a hard time getting a read on him and not being able to figure out why. It might not have looked like a full on sus (cuz it wasn't) but it was there. I mentioned it, golden addressed it. I sat back and kept an eye on him.

2) I am basing my thoughts on sloon amd quinn based on sloon and quinn. I am unsure what my reads of the others have to do with it. Can you explain what you are asking further? Sometimes I am quite unintentionally obtuse.

Also, the spoiler post reminded me - I still have these questions. Can anyone help a gal out?


Questions: 3p = 3rd party = indy yes?
Were DF and I the only 2 people to miss the D1

(1)

I admit, Golden's playstyle day 1 really threw my vibes off (I am a vibe player) But I think after today, I see why he was trying to switch stuff up more and I undersand where he was coming from.

(2)

As for shloon and quinn - IIRC, quinn was the first one to say "the D1 train on Bea is bullsuit. I thought it at the time, but continued to do nothing. " Then sloon actually helped move from topic *of* conversation to actually talking and contributing. I mean, from where I sit, that feels town. Could they be mafia sucking up? Sure. But why me?? Ya'll know I'm just flying by the seat of my pants. If it were mafia, I'd spend more time getting kate, or dh, or llama, or golden or literally anyone else's good graces than bea's.

What about the last part in sentence (2)?

I am not known for being a particularly good civ leader in a game. I am no - say - jjj or sloon or golden or supatowloo. I tend to blindly bumble my way through the world in both alignements and probs more so as a civ because i am relying on my not so great brain and gut. When you generally go through the world trusting everyone, it does not exactly turn you into a skilled person at spoting people who are trying to manipulate you.

So, for as WIFOM as it may seem, I have a hard time beliving that if quinn and sloon are linked in the game, that they are mafia trying to gain credit via me. Because I am typically prety easy to lynch for general "bea did something dumb" and not waste an NK on early because there are bigger fish to fry. Why spend the time getting in my good graces? Does that help explain my thought process more?

[Vivax]

I guess that losing the Cipher is awkward.
gg Lora
Sadly the rez only works on nightkills afaik.

Good thing bea and kate can talk normally.

@ Kate

What's your case on DH?
__________________________________


Nice idea with the coloured sentences, I'll steal it.

As for bea: I have some questions about sentences I find a bit vague, if you could expound a bit please.

1. I have zero remembrance of you getting thrown off by Golden on D1. Going over your ISO you mostly have positive mentions on D1. Where did Golden throw you off and what did you understand about where he was coming from?
2. This is a strange angle to townread both quinn and shloon. You are basing it on the alignments of kate, dh, llama and golden being assumed town. Do you have that sort of confidence about them ?

1) It is the mostly part, he made my gut feel like something was off. Hence 1 eye. I was not joking about having a hard time getting a read on him and not being able to figure out why. It might not have looked like a full on sus (cuz it wasn't) but it was there. I mentioned it, golden addressed it. I sat back and kept an eye on him.

2) I am basing my thoughts on sloon amd quinn based on sloon and quinn. I am unsure what my reads of the others have to do with it. Can you explain what you are asking further? Sometimes I am quite unintentionally obtuse.

Also, the spoiler post reminded me - I still have these questions. Can anyone help a gal out?


Questions: 3p = 3rd party = indy yes?
Were DF and I the only 2 people to miss the D1

(1)

I admit, Golden's playstyle day 1 really threw my vibes off (I am a vibe player) But I think after today, I see why he was trying to switch stuff up more and I undersand where he was coming from.

(2)

As for shloon and quinn - IIRC, quinn was the first one to say "the D1 train on Bea is bullsuit. I thought it at the time, but continued to do nothing. " Then sloon actually helped move from topic *of* conversation to actually talking and contributing. I mean, from where I sit, that feels town. Could they be mafia sucking up? Sure. But why me?? Ya'll know I'm just flying by the seat of my pants. If it were mafia, I'd spend more time getting kate, or dh, or llama, or golden or literally anyone else's good graces than bea's.

What about the last part in sentence (2)?

I am not known for being a particularly good civ leader in a game. I am no - say - jjj or sloon or golden or supatowloo. I tend to blindly bumble my way through the world in both alignements and probs more so as a civ because i am relying on my not so great brain and gut. When you generally go through the world trusting everyone, it does not exactly turn you into a skilled person at spoting people who are trying to manipulate you.

So, for as WIFOM as it may seem, I have a hard time beliving that if quinn and sloon are linked in the game, that they are mafia trying to gain credit via me. Because I am typically prety easy to lynch for general "bea did something dumb" and not waste an NK on early because there are bigger fish to fry. Why spend the time getting in my good graces? Does that help explain my thought process more?

I guess. Just don't understand why you think they did whatever they did to appeal to you specifically. I find the reasoning a bit hard to follow at first glance. Haven't really seen much of a transition from posting casually to solving from you, but that's partly due to you getting srsbsns'nd.
I could think of a few more questions but suppose that I'll wait for some input from more quiet corners (Eloh, DFara come to mind) for what makes sense to share at night at least.

[Sloonei]

If I’m following this conversation correctly, I think bea is saying the same thing you are, @Vivax: That it doesn’t make sense for the mafia duo of Quin and Sloon to specifically single her out for protection. She is saying that we both look town because we did so independently.

[Scotty]

I think we are at a stage in the game where we should at least all have a handful of trusted players. In the absence of clear suspects, that is a good place to start. This is the list I am currently working with:

Players I Have a High Degree of Trust In Right Now:
Golden
Scotty
Quin

Players I Trust a Bit, But Not As Much As Those Guys:
thellama
New Vivax
Michelle

Players That Are In A Vague Blob of Uncertainty:
bea
DFaraday
DrWilgy
G-Man
Kate
Sig

Players I Have Had Reasons to Suspect, But Have Also Seen Glimpses of Town:
Elohcin
LoRab

DharmaHelper:
DharmaHelper

The Blob of Uncertainty is too large and I need to start moving people out of it. That is what I intend to do if I survive to the next phase. But I would also like to start building stronger town reads, both for myself and others. That can start with me, as I have not done much to earn a wide degree of trust to this point. As chaotic as the latter part of Day 2 was, I think it has the potential to be highly valuable. But that depends on what we’re able to take out of it moving forward.

I see DH is still in a class of his own, and I don’t know if I see any progression of what you currently think of him.

What made you jump on LoRab end of day, and what does DH being in his own tier mean to you?

[Scotty]

Oh, I didn’t think of Kate break. That’s viable.

The thoughts I had were 1) it’s not an every night ability or 2) map is dead.

Remind me of what Kate break is. I have my assumptions of course but I don’t know this meta since I’ve never played with Kate

[Kate]

Oh, I didn’t think of Kate break. That’s viable.

The thoughts I had were 1) it’s not an every night ability or 2) map is dead.

Remind me of what Kate break is. I have my assumptions of course but I don’t know this meta since I’ve never played with Kate

In my defense, I had just had twins so my bladder wasn't at its peak efficiency.

It was when anyone had to go pee.

[Kate]

[Sabiplz]

good afternoon you lovely people

[Sloonei]

I think we are at a stage in the game where we should at least all have a handful of trusted players. In the absence of clear suspects, that is a good place to start. This is the list I am currently working with:

Players I Have a High Degree of Trust In Right Now:
Golden
Scotty
Quin

Players I Trust a Bit, But Not As Much As Those Guys:
thellama
New Vivax
Michelle

Players That Are In A Vague Blob of Uncertainty:
bea
DFaraday
DrWilgy
G-Man
Kate
Sig

Players I Have Had Reasons to Suspect, But Have Also Seen Glimpses of Town:
Elohcin
LoRab

DharmaHelper:
DharmaHelper

The Blob of Uncertainty is too large and I need to start moving people out of it. That is what I intend to do if I survive to the next phase. But I would also like to start building stronger town reads, both for myself and others. That can start with me, as I have not done much to earn a wide degree of trust to this point. As chaotic as the latter part of Day 2 was, I think it has the potential to be highly valuable. But that depends on what we’re able to take out of it moving forward.

I see DH is still in a class of his own, and I don’t know if I see any progression of what you currently think of him.

What made you jump on LoRab end of day, and what does DH being in his own tier mean to you?

The list is unupdated. I have given no new thought to DH.

It was a gut swing onto Lorab. I was weighing both of them. Ultimately I felt that her expression of frustration was more to do with being caught than being “told how to play”, as I believe she put it. Obviously that was incorrect.

I would still be comfortable leaving DH as a suspect to start Day 3. But I plan on casting a wide net if I see Day 3, which I presume I will.

[Scotty]

Going back to end of Day 1:

I voted [VOTE: vivax] aubergine.
If you've been paying attention, you know why.

okay, I cannot have this end in a tie bc Sloon decides to vote me last minute. I'm changing to [VOTE: sloon] aubergine

Whatcha gon do Sloon?

Probably just leave my vote on vivax.

giving up?

And then there’s this:

@Elohcin did being close to lynch give you any insight

Nope, nothing more than anyone else would know. I suppose it was:

Revolution Mafia
One time, you can switch the lynch to the player of your choice.

which is another tick on my chart of why Sloonei could be bad. I'm guessing since it was a tie between Sloon and myself, instead of waiting it out to see which one of us it would be, he went ahead and switched the vote entirely.

This is the only explanation I can think of. Did you have any thoughts on it?

This seems like the behavior of someone that neither wants to be the yeet vote nor even knew what ALIGNMENT the switcher role was.

Pardon me for playing role matchmaker (I don’t care if this is sacrosanct *cough cough Golden cough*) but this is important.

Firstly, Elo heavily implies what we were all thinking at the time- that Sloonei was the switcher, and was playing up that point for the camera.

Then NAA did a terribly confusing thing to tie the vote, which muddies up everything in water.

If Elo, in a tie vote, were to switch the vote, why would she switch to Vivax, who she voted with the implication that Sloonei was the lynch switcher and not Sloonei, which was where she left her vote so as to save herself l? This all seems unlikely as all hell.

But the lynch switch was was most likely used unless there is something in the FEB clue we’re missing RE: Ties.

This leaves
A) Sloonei, who was most at risk of being eliminated, or
B) a third party civilian that was in no risk of being eliminated convinced that neither Sloonei nor Elo were mafia, and using their ONE shot to change to Vivax. THAT is incredibly unlikely and puts way too much faith in the hands of one civ who thinks they can read a book faster than a computer.

I think Sloonei is town because of this, and if he is not, I blame the reckless civ that wanted to play hero. In the meantime, I’m going to blame my confusion this day phase on Golden. I’ll get to that next.

[Scotty]

I’m only getting warmed up.

You’re gonna have to kill me or Green me this next phase mafia. I only get more powerful as the game goes on and you leave me alive. My power level is almost over 9000

[Golden]

Your efforts to provide comprehensible content while insanified are appreciated, Bea.

Also you can have a town read. Congratulations!

And also successful, I read them all.

Can you please fuck right off with this shit.

[Golden]

As for Kate, I thought the idea of mafia self targeting was interesting. However, I don't think I buy that she was D1 in the hot seat enough to warrant that particular call. Her old skool meta feels as on brand as lorabs was. I need more time there. The fact that she did post OT so much feels like a good look though. Maybe I'm just jaded cuz I missed out on the OT cuz insanified. IDK. I've had And + mafia makes me miss my V. AKA Dreamy. My sweet durfunk mafia sister

I have no read on Kate yet but if she’s mafia I think the most likely explanation for greening your own teammate in a case like her is that they knew they were going to be busy and wanted a pass.

I obviously was not busy. I was here reading and I posted often OT.

I also put my vote on DH, then moved it to Lorab in an attempt to get her to talk, then moved it back to DH.

Yeah, bea made that point too and it’s both fair and made me feel good about you.

[Golden]

I’m just gonna say this once and then I’m done with it and I’m not going to engage any more.

My suspicion on DH came from reading his posts. All of them. And I never claimed they had no substance. And I engaged with him repeatedly.

Al the ‘I just want people to read’, ‘people say I have no substance’, ‘goldens reads are probably wrong by me providing one post and calling that an objective fact about my game’ is nonsense stuff, and it’s all of this that has me reading him as bad.

I see he claimed to Kate he just wanted people to engage with him and he deeply tried and woe is him for no one being willing to engage back.

Bullsuit. The opposite is true. He called the suspicion ‘meaningless’, ‘a bit’ etc…

I have been trying to engage everyone in good faith. I’ve also really really tried to walk away from DH, but he just can’t help but put in another boot in bad faith.

I’m not here for it, and I can’t see it’s civ behaviour.

[Golden]

@Scotty I’ve backed off on rev mafia being obvious because if I’m really the only one to see it I don’t want the mafia to know.

But I think rather than posting all this ‘I’m confused’ about possible options, you’d be better of reading carefully and figuring it out, or leaving it alone as I am now doing.

I make no claim the lynch switch was rational, although I can understand the mindset that on day one the whole thing is a crapshoot so why not make it your own crapshoot. Ironically, probably the kind of thing 2012 Golden would have done.

[Golden]

… I hope the hosts didn’t go too old school and reinstitute the “only players alive at the end of the game can win” rule.

What?? You can win while dead??

In my day the Mafia won as a team whether alive or dead, but civilians had to be alive to win.

This is a terrible way to play and I’m glad it’s gone.

It…is gone, right? Anyone wanna test it out?

For science?

Actually it was a lot of fun. I do like the new way but I wish there were more games that were the old way. Not posting at night, quieter threads, holding your suspicions close to your chest… in many ways I think this was a more fun way to play…

Which I never mastered. I got my civ reputation because I wouldn’t shut up in the context of games where everyone else had more self-control.

[Golden]

I will not be around for the night phase, sorry.

That’s ok. I think it’s just a gift that we’re even allowed to talk at night- it’s been such a long time.

It’s most beneficial to town before one of us gets green’d again or one of us gets NK’d

Wait talking at night isn’t normal any more?

[DharmaHelper]

I’m just gonna say this once and then I’m done with it and I’m not going to engage any more.

My suspicion on DH came from reading his posts. All of them. And I never claimed they had no substance. And I engaged with him repeatedly.

Al the ‘I just want people to read’, ‘people say I have no substance’, ‘goldens reads are probably wrong by me providing one post and calling that an objective fact about my game’ is nonsense stuff, and it’s all of this that has me reading him as bad.

I see he claimed to Kate he just wanted people to engage with him and he deeply tried and woe is him for no one being willing to engage back.

Bullsuit. The opposite is true. He called the suspicion ‘meaningless’, ‘a bit’ etc…

I have been trying to engage everyone in good faith. I’ve also really really tried to walk away from DH, but he just can’t help but put in another boot in bad faith.

I’m not here for it, and I can’t see it’s civ behaviour.

it would really help my ability to drop this if you stopped doing it.

[Scotty]

Well that’s distressing. I just reloaded the page with my fat thumbs so now I have to go back and rewrite everything. &$$*#^*

Anyway; Golden.
His D2 was a roller coaster.

First he has a lengthy engagement with DH, which essentially starts with this:

Let me reframe.

I have a bull read on you and I don’t like having a bull read on you, so I voted you to get your attention and see what came next.

And I got your attention, and I’m seeing what comes next.

Eventually coming to this:

I can only assume the people voting for me/suspecting me are town because you would have to be dumb as hell to hem me of all players up in a lynch rather than just NKing me.

There’s wifom all the way down with you today.

Yes because I'm famously well known for employing WIFOM.

I don't know if this is sarcasm of not, but "I am employing wifom because I am famously known for employing wifom" is the exact "imitating yourself" thing I was talking about.

It reads to me like you're trying to 'be DH' instead of actually just... solving some stuff.

Sloonei's point that you are not doing anything to perpetuate your reads is on point. I was asking you why you'd vote Scotty or G-Man today because at this point, to me, your vote for G-Man reads like a throaway excuse to not follow through on your obsession with Scotty.

I think there's a good chance you and scotty are w/w. I'm gonna be reading Scotty's posts to see if they back that up today.

Getting burned out and getting into “a circular” discussion, sprinkled with this post:

I had stuff to say on Quin/Sloonei but I'm actually going to step away for a while.

And ending with this:

G-Man donowalled my suspicion of him

Genuinely haven't read much recently, did G-Man ever address anything I said or is he suffering the same "I can't see DH's posts" affliction that sig was?

Dont mind me just forgetting my G-Man suspicion exists lmao I'm so crazy.

I'll just finish by saying that this is 'not forgetting my suspicion exists' in the same way that DF hasn't forgotten this thread exists and leave it there, because I'm getting steamed.

[VOTE: DFaraday] aubergine

OK, properly and actually forcing myself to walk away for a bit now. I expect to be back before eod, but I think in terms of the thread it's better for my vote to be somewhere else right now, and DF is now officially at 'so quiet it's no longer just a town meta thing' levels.

Sorry for getting steamed DH.

You think DF is a better vote here than LoRab?

Interesting.

I've been so engaged with my thoughts on Quin and DH, and tbh feeling like day two has for me been 'why is everyone so quiet, could people please talk' and me getting perhaps stuck a bit in tunnelling on Quin and DH, that I admit I haven't given LoRab as much thought as others and have been skimming the posts casing her today. I'll engage in it before end of day though. I've cooled the jets a bit.

Instinct says 'LoRab keeping her reads to herself is NAI' and also that she isn't a non-poster in the way DF is. I haven't independently had LoRab ping me. But I'll catch up on the case.

Ok, so for this section, I will call it the “unwilling Golden and DH thunderdome.”

Golden makes it clear that he null reads DH, and wants to clear that up.
But by the end of it, and all the heated exchanges, and eye rolls, Golden seems absolutely unchanged in his opinion and votes DF for self-professed thread health.

—————————————————

Back to the Elo/Sloon end of day quandary:

@Elohcin did being close to lynch give you any insight

Nope, nothing more than anyone else would know. I suppose it was:

Revolution Mafia
One time, you can switch the lynch to the player of your choice.

which is another tick on my chart of why Sloonei could be bad. I'm guessing since it was a tie between Sloon and myself, instead of waiting it out to see which one of us it would be, he went ahead and switched the vote entirely.

This is the only explanation I can think of. Did you have any thoughts on it?

Oh I’m confident rev mafia isn’t Sloonei. I was wondering if it might have given you insight into people voting for you, but you know there’s no guarantee of that, I didn’t get any insight into wilgy from his vote for me.

Revolution Mafia
One time, you can switch the lynch to the player of your choice.

which is another tick on my chart of why Sloonei could be bad. I'm guessing since it was a tie between Sloon and myself, instead of waiting it out to see which one of us it would be, he went ahead and switched the vote entirely.

This is the only explanation I can think of. Did you have any thoughts on it?

Obviously I can make no comment about what role Sloonei may or may not have.

But Elohcin just posited a theory in which Sloonei is a specific town role. The conclusion she draws from this theory, however, is that it points toward Sloonei being aligned with the mafia team.
Mafia Eloh probably knows which roles are mafia-aligned. Thus, she does not make a mistake like this.

I agree with this. Feels like a proper townslip.

Golden responds to Elo’s townslip post by barreling forth with his assumption that he has a good idea what Sloonei is, and it isn’t the switcher. Completely ignoring the most logical piece of logic that would have to exist if Sloonei wasn’t the switcher: Who is?

It would be a fair assumption that Golden, who had on many occasions hinted that he has roles in mind for many players, but wouldn’t share with the class because of some unspoken town integrity or something I guess, would have a role in mind for the switcher. (NOTE: We’re not allowed to role claim, but that doesn’t mean we can’t role guess. Mafia are doing it in their channel and it’s a fair assumption that 4 minds might be better than 1, so even if you feel like you might be the fastest hamster on the wheel, the wheel continues to move after you stop.)

Anyway, back to golden.

So can be heavily implied by Golden’s posts this night, he thinks Sloonei is the Mason with Quin based on how heavily Sloonei has been defending him. But if you’re reading along, it seems far more likely Sloon is the switcher than a Mason. He could still be Mason, but I find it suspect that he hasn’t asked the question of the identity of the switcher yet.

After Sloon immediately catches the townslip, it takes multiple posts talking about other things before Golden eventually agrees.

OKAY. So Golden agrees Elo doesn’t know what the role switcher is. And he still thinks at that point that Sloon is a Mason.

Scotty, it’s very clear who acted yesterday and it’s not Sloonei.

So who was it?

[Golden]

The answer to 'who it was' is very obvious to *me* in the thread. That others have such difficulty with that question is a surprise to me, I thought this person would be an evident townclear to all on day two.

I would very obviously be breaking the rules if I answered the question 'who was it'.

[Golden]

The answer might become apparent if people try to heavily suspect this person because I won't let it stand.

[Golden]

"Golden makes it clear that he null reads DH, and wants to clear that up."

I want to very clear, that at the time I voted DH first I null readed him, but that was absolutely not the case by end of day. The way he responded to my vote was consistently bad faith.

[DharmaHelper]

if i am not nked expect me to act as if i'd been nked

[Golden]

Also "Golden thinks sloonei is a mason" is, in my mind, absolutely over the line of what is OK to say in a role madness game with no info dumping such as this which is why I've never made a statement like that.

[Sloonei]

I will not be around for the night phase, sorry.

That’s ok. I think it’s just a gift that we’re even allowed to talk at night- it’s been such a long time.

It’s most beneficial to town before one of us gets green’d again or one of us gets NK’d

Wait talking at night isn’t normal any more?

It’s standard to lock the thread at night now.

[Scotty]

@Scotty I’ve backed off on rev mafia being obvious because if I’m really the only one to see it I don’t want the mafia to know.

But I think rather than posting all this ‘I’m confused’ about possible options, you’d be better of reading carefully and figuring it out, or leaving it alone as I am now doing.

I make no claim the lynch switch was rational, although I can understand the mindset that on day one the whole thing is a crapshoot so why not make it your own crapshoot. Ironically, probably the kind of thing 2012 Golden would have done.

The problem with leaving it alone is the odds of the mafia already having a good idea is 4x as likely than 4 odd shot civs happening to all know it.

Increasing the pool of civs we can cross off our collective list is productive for the game.

If I have a chance to be widely townread because of circumstantial mech that affects me or players around me, then I’m all for it.

[Scotty]

Also "Golden thinks sloonei is a mason" is, in my mind, absolutely over the line of what is OK to say in a role madness game with no info dumping such as this which is why I've never made a statement like that.

You haven’t claimed a role. I’m not claiming a role.

Unless I am distinctly misrepresenting what that rule means, this is all guesswork

[Sloonei]

Lovely weather we’re having, isn’t it?

[Sloonei]

You are both town, fyi.

[Scotty]

Bah. I can see how this might be problematic.

I’ll drop it.

It’s like if I call you a pineapple, Golden, and Golden really is a pineapple, what truly can you say?

[Golden]

@Scotty I’ve backed off on rev mafia being obvious because if I’m really the only one to see it I don’t want the mafia to know.

But I think rather than posting all this ‘I’m confused’ about possible options, you’d be better of reading carefully and figuring it out, or leaving it alone as I am now doing.

I make no claim the lynch switch was rational, although I can understand the mindset that on day one the whole thing is a crapshoot so why not make it your own crapshoot. Ironically, probably the kind of thing 2012 Golden would have done.

The problem with leaving it alone is the odds of the mafia already having a good idea is 4x as likely than 4 odd shot civs happening to all know it.

Increasing the pool of civs we can cross off our collective list is productive for the game.

If I have a chance to be widely townread because of circumstantial mech that affects me or players around me, then I’m all for it.

This is eminently frustrating.

It's like you're baiting me to break the rules when the obvious conclusion from what I'm saying ought to be that you can find the answer for yourself.

[Scotty]

Sorry if I’ve overstepped, y’all

[Scotty]

@Scotty I’ve backed off on rev mafia being obvious because if I’m really the only one to see it I don’t want the mafia to know.

But I think rather than posting all this ‘I’m confused’ about possible options, you’d be better of reading carefully and figuring it out, or leaving it alone as I am now doing.

I make no claim the lynch switch was rational, although I can understand the mindset that on day one the whole thing is a crapshoot so why not make it your own crapshoot. Ironically, probably the kind of thing 2012 Golden would have done.

The problem with leaving it alone is the odds of the mafia already having a good idea is 4x as likely than 4 odd shot civs happening to all know it.

Increasing the pool of civs we can cross off our collective list is productive for the game.

If I have a chance to be widely townread because of circumstantial mech that affects me or players around me, then I’m all for it.

This is eminently frustrating.

It's like you're baiting me to break the rules when the obvious conclusion from what I'm saying ought to be that you can find the answer for yourself.

I’m just gonna move on from that aspect. No baiting intended.

However, I will say that you advocating that you can’t ‘spell it out for me- if I don’t know it I don’t know it’ doesn’t help me explain your point of view in how you’re approaching your reads of players. It’s all connected

[Sloonei]

Players That Are In A Vague Blob of Uncertainty:[/u]
bea
DFaraday
DrWilgy
G-Man
Kate
Sig

You guys wanna talk about my Blob of Uncertainty? Bea has since been moved up to “town”, but the rest of this list remains blob-like.

[Golden]

Bah. I can see how this might be problematic.

I’ll drop it.

It’s like if I call you a pineapple, Golden, and Golden really is a pineapple, what truly can you say?

I just think you didn't truly grow up in this role madness era like I did, you hit the tail end.

I know what I'm doing, and I think people like Kate, LoRab, bea etc would understand the concept of what I'm putting down, even if they themselves are like you and don't know the identity of the person.

But literally 'telling the civs what I think everyone's roles are' is weighing the balance of the game heavily in favour of the civs, which is why the rules are what they are. It's absolutely not fair if I say "SVS is rev mafia and let me pull several posts from the thread to prove it to you". That's definitely breaking the rules, and it's also breaking the code.

So yeah, hear you! But also, let me tell ya, if you truly are a civ I believe in your ability to work this out.

[Golden]

Players That Are In A Vague Blob of Uncertainty:[/u]
bea
DFaraday
DrWilgy
G-Man
Kate
Sig

You guys wanna talk about my Blob of Uncertainty? Bea has since been moved up to “town”, but the rest of this list remains blob-like.

If I was to order these people from towniest to least town in my mind I would go:

Sig
bea
Kate
Wilgy
DF
G-Man

Although those last two are getting closer to flipping. I would like some external takes on my read of G-Man too because to some extent I'm not sure whether it was just a 'no u' response to 'I don't buy your vote for me is legitimate' or whether it was an objectively reasonable take.

[Golden]

@Scotty I’ve backed off on rev mafia being obvious because if I’m really the only one to see it I don’t want the mafia to know.

But I think rather than posting all this ‘I’m confused’ about possible options, you’d be better of reading carefully and figuring it out, or leaving it alone as I am now doing.

I make no claim the lynch switch was rational, although I can understand the mindset that on day one the whole thing is a crapshoot so why not make it your own crapshoot. Ironically, probably the kind of thing 2012 Golden would have done.

The problem with leaving it alone is the odds of the mafia already having a good idea is 4x as likely than 4 odd shot civs happening to all know it.

Increasing the pool of civs we can cross off our collective list is productive for the game.

If I have a chance to be widely townread because of circumstantial mech that affects me or players around me, then I’m all for it.

This is eminently frustrating.

It's like you're baiting me to break the rules when the obvious conclusion from what I'm saying ought to be that you can find the answer for yourself.

I’m just gonna move on from that aspect. No baiting intended.

However, I will say that you advocating that you can’t ‘spell it out for me- if I don’t know it I don’t know it’ doesn’t help me explain your point of view in how you’re approaching your reads of players. It’s all connected

Oh, it's absolutely all connected.

FYI, there are four living people I have in specific civ roles with another couple suspected.

This is how I play role madness and my reads will not solely develop in the way a person who has only played with me in the modern era might be used to (that's not to say I'm not taking standard reads stuff into account too, of course I am).

[Sloonei]

I truly have no solid opinion on G-man in this game. I am happy to be playing with him again, but I have hardly felt his vivacious presence in this game beyond his verbose visitation of the letter V.

[Golden]

It does, I agree, make it harder for someone who wants to *understand* my reads. But I also think this is a valuable lesson to take into understand how *anyone*, or at least any of the very old skoolers, are playing in this game... and I think the suspicion on LoRab may partially have come out of not vibing with that.

[Golden]

You know what I love--players telling me how I should play the game. Seriously. It's my favorite. Almost as much as when people say that civvies deserved to be lynched.

I wish I were bad--I find being bad much easier, but here we are. I'm civ. I wish I were able to help the civvies win.

If I'm lynched, go after Kate and Bea next. Scotty isn't making me feel great. Llama may also be a baddie--I keep going back and forth on him. And Dr Wilgy needs to stop licking people and hiding behind his goofiness--it is making me increasingly suspect him.

I think we should make sure LoRabs thoughts on her own lynch don't get entirely lost. I don't have time to think deeply about them during this night phase, so I'm flagging this in case.

[Sloonei]

Kate, Bea, and G-man all feel like players we could have stronger reads on collectively.

[Sloonei]

“Stronger” is not the right word. More concrete and clearly defined reads.

[Scotty]

Kate, Bea, and G-man all feel like players we could have stronger reads on collectively.

Kate is someone of whom don’t know the meta, but I’m currently leaning towards her being town. But now that she isn’t Green’d tomorrow I want to hear more of her progressions. Unfortunate that she couldn’t see clearly with DH at night to post thoughts.
There is also a possibility some tricks are in play where she IS green and didn’t target herself and instead had the power reflected back on her somehow. Can’t rule it out as we haven’t figured out vomps or the map. But not as likely imo.
I just can’t figure out why Green would target her of all people to essentially shut up after a pretty low posting performance of D1.


GMan is someone who had a very content-poor D2, which can be chalked up to RL delays. His vote on LoRab is, in retrospect, not great. I’m still running on fumes of his D1 where I had him in a top town read on the adverb thing. But that far and away doesn’t clear him. He’s knocked down to Townlean for me.

bea I Townread on tone alone, and that’s most of her read. She had bits to comment on in D2 while insanified, but it was few and far between. I think I’d like to hear more from her when she’s not speaking in tongues.

[Golden]

I have figured out vomps and it’s not that.

I don’t think I’ll be figuring out the map or the FEBs on Es alone and I’ve spent enough time on it.

[Scotty]

I have figured out vomps and it’s not that.

I don’t think I’ll be figuring out the map or the FEBs on Es alone and I’ve spent enough time on it.

Oh good!

Would it help the town to also know what it is?

[Golden]

I have figured out vomps and it’s not that.

I don’t think I’ll be figuring out the map or the FEBs on Es alone and I’ve spent enough time on it.

Oh good!

Would it help the town to also know what it is?

I did ask for views on that question. I can see it going either way.

[bea]

If I’m following this conversation correctly, I think bea is saying the same thing you are, @Vivax: That it doesn’t make sense for the mafia duo of Quin and Sloon to specifically single her out for protection. She is saying that we both look town because we did so independently.

Bah. I can see how this might be problematic.

I’ll drop it.

It’s like if I call you a pineapple, Golden, and Golden really is a pineapple, what truly can you say?

I just think you didn't truly grow up in this role madness era like I did, you hit the tail end.

I know what I'm doing, and I think people like Kate, LoRab, bea etc would understand the concept of what I'm putting down, even if they themselves are like you and don't know the identity of the person.

But literally 'telling the civs what I think everyone's roles are' is weighing the balance of the game heavily in favour of the civs, which is why the rules are what they are. It's absolutely not fair if I say "SVS is rev mafia and let me pull several posts from the thread to prove it to you". That's definitely breaking the rules, and it's also breaking the code.

So yeah, hear you! But also, let me tell ya, if you truly are a civ I believe in your ability to work this out.

Yes. Exactly. Thank you sloon. We were coming from differebr angles but arriving at the same spot.

[G-Man]

Vittles are being consumed and then I should be around for a good chunk of what’s left of the night. I’ll share a few thoughts from the last time I was caught up, start some ISO’s and share what I can work through until the end of the phase.

Sorry all. My 48 hours of busyness turned into 72. No hard feelings for anyone sussing me for what might feel like me being a tease. Not my intent.

[Spacedaisy]

Hello scotty would you like to play a game of snap with me.

Is that the one where we lick each other in the balls as hard as we can until someone yells mercy?

I am dying.

[Spacedaisy]

@Spacedaisy are you certain there’s no typos in the secrets?

Aside from punctuation, yes. I used Find/Replace in order to avoid messing it up. And I went back and fixed the punctuation that I noticed last night. Sometimes i drop a period at the end of a sentence.