Escape From Russia [GAME OVER]

[Poison]

Poison played a great meta shattering game, Ash played a comically hard bus on someone who didn't even flip. Doesn't ever really look teamed. This was a hard game.

I mean I'm not taking another "disrespect read" from anybody. Tbh, It was really humiliating to survive in F3 in the champs only because of my meta and losing town the game at the end. Sigh. Had to change the play at some point.

[Poison]

Also big shoutout to Michelle and her god reads. Caught all three of us at various points.

Yup yup yup

[Hally]

also like, what would have happened if i stayed silent and self protected? it would have been the same thing. everyone knew i was supposed to die and when i didn’t it would raise questions about me that i couldn’t answer and cause everyone to think i had some bad role that made me immune. regardless of if i hinted or not self protecting was basically self incriminating with a town doc already flipped but i had no choice. claiming or not claiming wouldn’t have made any difference and i honestly don’t get why it wasn’t allowed

[tutuu]

honestly don’t get why it wasn’t allowed

from what ive heard its a cultural / nostalgic thing for the syndicate (or maybe before the syndicate? people from lostpedia? dunno)

personally i also dislike it, i disliked it in radiohead too, i think there are more modern and better solutions

the future is now, old man

[G-Man]

HOST NOTES:

-I think after 3p's and baddies winning the first three games of this series I intentionally set out to tilt the game a little to the civvies.

-I broke the pattern of having a 3p in the game, but still had my chaos role in the secret asymptomatic carrier. That was a role in my Chicka Chicka 1, 2,3 game that didn't get as much time to shine as I wanted. It's also slightly based off the Venomous Imp role from a Long Con/Black Rock game from days long ago. Amusing that he wound up with the role.

-Including the asymptomatic carrier led me to incorporate a second doctor role. I thought it provided some balance, as the civvies had to contend with the mafia and a virus threat that was statistically more likely to hit a civvie than a baddie.

-There were a total of 50 votes cast in the day polls during this game. Only 7 of them were cast for baddies.

-I really didn't know what to do with Hally when she all but outed herself as a power role and second doctor. There is subtlety and then there is what Hally did. Maybe I could have been more clear. When it was too late, I didn't feel as though I could rightfully modkill her. That would have eliminated the last power role, and the only role of significance left that could stand in the baddies way from steamrolling the game. In fact, had I modkilled her, it would have defaulted straight to a baddie victory. Had the civvies somehow come back to win, I'd have given the mafia a share of the victory, because they would have won without any mass hinting from Hally.

-I come from a culture long ago that embraced claiming at first and then turned against it when it started wrecking artfully constructed games. I am a dinosaur and a relic and I need to find a way forward with allowing claiming somehow.

-The civvies had two doctors and even received a gift in the accidental death of a baddie, and they still managed to lose the game.

-I actually pored over Google Maps for weeks plotting the literal escape route of Sidney Blumenthal and Chelsea Clinton from the end of Escape From Trump Tower through the end of this game.
The fake penthouse was in a warehouse in Perm, Russia. Sidney and Chelsea escaped on a westbound train to Kirov. From there, rail lines and highways exist between all the towns mentioned in this game. All cities and locations therein are real places, even the pizzeria across from the Golden Gate in Kiev.

[Hally]

im not saying i was right to soft claim and am sorry if it ruined the game. im simply saying that ultimately i think it changed nothing and didn’t make sense to have as a rule from a game design perspective

[TonyStarkPrime]

i also honestly don’t get the point of no claim rules in a closed setup where there’s absolutely no gamebreaking potential whatsoever

like, everyone knew i was softing doc. i still got eliminated. it did absolutely nothing. anyone can soft anything as any alignment in a closed setup and it should be on town to figure out if it’s legit. it doesn’t make sense to me to ban claiming or hinting outright

but like, it’s not my game so

this is understandable. it's a weird line and it didn't matter in this game

[tutuu]

-I come from a culture long ago that embraced claiming at first and then turned against it when it started wrecking artfully constructed games.

u can still construct an artfully beautiful game that doesnt get broken by mass claiming u just gotta be big brain about it

[G-Man]

also like, what would have happened if i stayed silent and self protected? it would have been the same thing. everyone knew i was supposed to die and when i didn’t it would raise questions about me that i couldn’t answer and cause everyone to think i had some bad role that made me immune. regardless of if i hinted or not self protecting was basically self incriminating with a town doc already flipped but i had no choice. claiming or not claiming wouldn’t have made any difference and i honestly don’t get why it wasn’t allowed

I just didn't understand why you didn't self-protect on Night 3 and healed yourself then. You could have guessed at which Long Con voter to try to save Night 4 that way. It felt like an unforced error to me.

I was also surprised that you had no reaction whatsoever to finding out that there was another doctor role in the game. I was anticipating a questioning PM from you, but I got nothing of the sort.

[tutuu]

-I come from a culture long ago that embraced claiming at first and then turned against it when it started wrecking artfully constructed games.

u can still construct an artfully beautiful game that doesnt get broken by mass claiming u just gotta be big brain about it

not to deter u from doing ur thing of course, its ur games

[G-Man]

i also honestly don’t get the point of no claim rules in a closed setup where there’s absolutely no gamebreaking potential whatsoever

like, everyone knew i was softing doc. i still got eliminated. it did absolutely nothing. anyone can soft anything as any alignment in a closed setup and it should be on town to figure out if it’s legit. it doesn’t make sense to me to ban claiming or hinting outright

but like, it’s not my game so

Claiming the last power role when the other doctor isn't there to protect you would hand the baddies the keys to victory. They didn't kill you only because they hoped you might die from the virus. I didn't want the doctors outing themselves especially in this game because losing one of them right out of the gate would set the civvies back. It turned out that way anyway by natural course (night kill), but it could have been worse and the civvies could have been screwed from the very beginning.

[Hally]

HOST NOTES:

-I think after 3p's and baddies winning the first three games of this series I intentionally set out to tilt the game a little to the civvies.

-I broke the pattern of having a 3p in the game, but still had my chaos role in the secret asymptomatic carrier. That was a role in my Chicka Chicka 1, 2,3 game that didn't get as much time to shine as I wanted. It's also slightly based off the Venomous Imp role from a Long Con/Black Rock game from days long ago. Amusing that he wound up with the role.

-Including the asymptomatic carrier led me to incorporate a second doctor role. I thought it provided some balance, as the civvies had to contend with the mafia and a virus threat that was statistically more likely to hit a civvie than a baddie.

-There were a total of 50 votes cast in the day polls during this game. Only 7 of them were cast for baddies.

-I really didn't know what to do with Hally when she all but outed herself as a power role and second doctor. There is subtlety and then there is what Hally did. Maybe I could have been more clear. When it was too late, I didn't feel as though I could rightfully modkill her. That would have eliminated the last power role, and the only role of significance left that could stand in the baddies way from steamrolling the game. In fact, had I modkilled her, it would have defaulted straight to a baddie victory. Had the civvies somehow come back to win, I'd have given the mafia a share of the victory, because they would have won without any mass hinting from Hally.

-I come from a culture long ago that embraced claiming at first and then turned against it when it started wrecking artfully constructed games. I am a dinosaur and a relic and I need to find a way forward with allowing claiming somehow.

-The civvies had two doctors and even received a gift in the accidental death of a baddie, and they still managed to lose the game.

-I actually pored over Google Maps for weeks plotting the literal escape route of Sidney Blumenthal and Chelsea Clinton from the end of Escape From Trump Tower through the end of this game.
The fake penthouse was in a warehouse in Perm, Russia. Sidney and Chelsea escaped on a westbound train to Kirov. From there, rail lines and highways exist between all the towns mentioned in this game. All cities and locations therein are real places, even the pizzeria across from the Golden Gate in Kiev.

i apologize for hinting so much and putting you in a difficult position. im really going to need to be more disciplined about no claim rules in the future. personally though, i think claiming should just be allowed in all games because it removes this issue entirely. and then setups can just be designed with that in mind so that it isn’t game breaking to allow them. or they can just be closed like this game. especially now with this site getting a lot of new off site people who come from places where claiming is the norm i feel like this could continue to be an issue, idk

[G-Man]

omg you let trump win


cursed

Actually, I settled on this being the way the narrative element ended the series no matter whether the civvies won or lost. The narrative was always going to split the players from the non-player characters of Sidney and Chelsea. I thought of constructing a long elaborate epilogue, but it was much more satisfying to just kill them off no matter what and end the story on a dark note.

[Hally]

also like, what would have happened if i stayed silent and self protected? it would have been the same thing. everyone knew i was supposed to die and when i didn’t it would raise questions about me that i couldn’t answer and cause everyone to think i had some bad role that made me immune. regardless of if i hinted or not self protecting was basically self incriminating with a town doc already flipped but i had no choice. claiming or not claiming wouldn’t have made any difference and i honestly don’t get why it wasn’t allowed

I just didn't understand why you didn't self-protect on Night 3 and healed yourself then. You could have guessed at which Long Con voter to try to save Night 4 that way. It felt like an unforced error to me.

I was also surprised that you had no reaction whatsoever to finding out that there was another doctor role in the game. I was anticipating a questioning PM from you, but I got nothing of the sort.

i didn’t think i could self-heal a day before the poison took effect. thought it had to be the night i was going to die

also idk, why would i ask you? i knew what my role was. tutuu flipping just told me there was another

[G-Man]

HOST NOTES:

-I think after 3p's and baddies winning the first three games of this series I intentionally set out to tilt the game a little to the civvies.

-I broke the pattern of having a 3p in the game, but still had my chaos role in the secret asymptomatic carrier. That was a role in my Chicka Chicka 1, 2,3 game that didn't get as much time to shine as I wanted. It's also slightly based off the Venomous Imp role from a Long Con/Black Rock game from days long ago. Amusing that he wound up with the role.

-Including the asymptomatic carrier led me to incorporate a second doctor role. I thought it provided some balance, as the civvies had to contend with the mafia and a virus threat that was statistically more likely to hit a civvie than a baddie.

-There were a total of 50 votes cast in the day polls during this game. Only 7 of them were cast for baddies.

-I really didn't know what to do with Hally when she all but outed herself as a power role and second doctor. There is subtlety and then there is what Hally did. Maybe I could have been more clear. When it was too late, I didn't feel as though I could rightfully modkill her. That would have eliminated the last power role, and the only role of significance left that could stand in the baddies way from steamrolling the game. In fact, had I modkilled her, it would have defaulted straight to a baddie victory. Had the civvies somehow come back to win, I'd have given the mafia a share of the victory, because they would have won without any mass hinting from Hally.

-I come from a culture long ago that embraced claiming at first and then turned against it when it started wrecking artfully constructed games. I am a dinosaur and a relic and I need to find a way forward with allowing claiming somehow.

-The civvies had two doctors and even received a gift in the accidental death of a baddie, and they still managed to lose the game.

-I actually pored over Google Maps for weeks plotting the literal escape route of Sidney Blumenthal and Chelsea Clinton from the end of Escape From Trump Tower through the end of this game.
The fake penthouse was in a warehouse in Perm, Russia. Sidney and Chelsea escaped on a westbound train to Kirov. From there, rail lines and highways exist between all the towns mentioned in this game. All cities and locations therein are real places, even the pizzeria across from the Golden Gate in Kiev.

i apologize for hinting so much and putting you in a difficult position. im really going to need to be more disciplined about no claim rules in the future. personally though, i think claiming should just be allowed in all games because it removes this issue entirely. and then setups can just be designed with that in mind so that it isn’t game breaking to allow them. or they can just be closed like this game. especially now with this site getting a lot of new off site people who come from places where claiming is the norm i feel like this could continue to be an issue, idk

In the end, it's just a thing that happened. I need to evolve more on the issue.

I think that Heist games can fall out of balance faster when the power roles are exposed and eliminated. In larger, role madness games, I think claiming can be allowed. I'll just have to not get so attached to some of my zany roles.

[Hally]

i also honestly don’t get the point of no claim rules in a closed setup where there’s absolutely no gamebreaking potential whatsoever

like, everyone knew i was softing doc. i still got eliminated. it did absolutely nothing. anyone can soft anything as any alignment in a closed setup and it should be on town to figure out if it’s legit. it doesn’t make sense to me to ban claiming or hinting outright

but like, it’s not my game so

Claiming the last power role when the other doctor isn't there to protect you would hand the baddies the keys to victory. They didn't kill you only because they hoped you might die from the virus. I didn't want the doctors outing themselves especially in this game because losing one of them right out of the gate would set the civvies back. It turned out that way anyway by natural course (night kill), but it could have been worse and the civvies could have been screwed from the very beginning.

idk imo as long as the game cannot be broken mechanically by a claim it should be up to the players to decide if they wanna screw themselves and risk claiming or not

[G-Man]

also like, what would have happened if i stayed silent and self protected? it would have been the same thing. everyone knew i was supposed to die and when i didn’t it would raise questions about me that i couldn’t answer and cause everyone to think i had some bad role that made me immune. regardless of if i hinted or not self protecting was basically self incriminating with a town doc already flipped but i had no choice. claiming or not claiming wouldn’t have made any difference and i honestly don’t get why it wasn’t allowed

I just didn't understand why you didn't self-protect on Night 3 and healed yourself then. You could have guessed at which Long Con voter to try to save Night 4 that way. It felt like an unforced error to me.

I was also surprised that you had no reaction whatsoever to finding out that there was another doctor role in the game. I was anticipating a questioning PM from you, but I got nothing of the sort.

i didn’t think i could self-heal a day before the poison took effect. thought it had to be the night i was going to die

also idk, why would i ask you? i knew what my role was. tutuu flipping just told me there was another

Perhaps I thought the infection was more clear-cut than it was interpreted by the players. Infection was immediate and curable the whole duration. No one asked the question, so I didn't think I needed to overexplain it.

[Hally]

ah i should have asked that

[nutella]

also like, what would have happened if i stayed silent and self protected? it would have been the same thing. everyone knew i was supposed to die and when i didn’t it would raise questions about me that i couldn’t answer and cause everyone to think i had some bad role that made me immune. regardless of if i hinted or not self protecting was basically self incriminating with a town doc already flipped but i had no choice. claiming or not claiming wouldn’t have made any difference and i honestly don’t get why it wasn’t allowed

I just didn't understand why you didn't self-protect on Night 3 and healed yourself then. You could have guessed at which Long Con voter to try to save Night 4 that way. It felt like an unforced error to me.

I was also surprised that you had no reaction whatsoever to finding out that there was another doctor role in the game. I was anticipating a questioning PM from you, but I got nothing of the sort.

i didn’t think i could self-heal a day before the poison took effect. thought it had to be the night i was going to die

also idk, why would i ask you? i knew what my role was. tutuu flipping just told me there was another

yeah, fwiw, from a spec perspective also having read your role card it also was not at all clear to me from the wording that you could cure it the night before. i realized that from something g said in chat and said that i hadn't realized it and i guess he assumed you would understand it

wording has to be clearrrrr

[nutella]

er rather having read lc's flip i guess is the relevant part

[G-Man]

MORE HOST NOTES:

-[mention]DrWilgy[/mention] and [mention]Epignosis[/mention] played in all four of the games in this series. Neither of them were part of a winning faction. DrWilgy was a vanilla civvie in all four games.

-The role names all have some level of meaning. The baddies surnames were all surnames of former KGB agents.

-Three of the civvie role surnames were the surnames of Russian doctors who actually died by "falling" out of windows after speaking up about COVID-19 and Russia's dishonesty with the facts.

-The remaining civvie surnames were all taken from a list of Russian political prisoners I found online while building the game.

[G-Man]

er rather having read lc's flip i guess is the relevant part

Yeah, someday you all will get the hint that reading my end-of-phase posts is important.

[Hally]

anyway, thank you for the game gman. sorry for the trouble i caused. and to be clear, im not saying i didn’t enjoy the game because of the no claim thing or that i was right to do what i did or blaming you or anything. nothing like that. more just talking about for the future its probably better to get rid of the headache and just allow them. but it’s up to the hosts here what they want to do and i’ll have to be more disciplined in adhering to what you decide

[TonyStarkPrime]

One time I was playing in a Nanook game and my role did the exact opposite of what I thought it did

[TonyStarkPrime]

I claimed and everything and then I went to use my power and Nanook was like “no that’s not what I meant”

[TonyStarkPrime]

It was a big oops

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Wtf is this light theme

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I claimed and everything and then I went to use my power and Nanook was like “no that’s not what I meant”

I’m still confused why you thought it would work that way

[DrWilgy]

This is the quality I play mafia for

"Poison can do nothing wrong in my eyes"

It's true tho. Still pretty sure you were only scum after I was spoiled and thats it.

[DrWilgy]

(And by that the truth is that I wasn't willing to spend the energy sorting you out with other lines of play still active. Not playing to the potentially self resolving line vs playing the lines that need to be forced quite accurately surmises my efforts in a game since there's only so much of me [because Im a slanker])

[tedxtr]

wp wolves, tough game

[TonyStarkPrime]

I claimed and everything and then I went to use my power and Nanook was like “no that’s not what I meant”

I’m still confused why you thought it would work that way

The words said “you may kill Steve” or whoever. They didn’t say I had to know who Steve was.

[tutuu]

wp wolves, tough game

ted wtf i asked if ur a survivor fan and u told me u dont watch it???

[tedxtr]

wp wolves, tough game

ted wtf i asked if ur a survivor fan and u told me u dont watch it???

i didn't actually watch it

i just stumbled across a google drive with the villains vs heroes season lol

i am not joking when I'm saying euros don't have it, I need to make a CBS subscription or something

i mostly watched the immunity challenges on youtube and best moments from <insert random player>

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I claimed and everything and then I went to use my power and Nanook was like “no that’s not what I meant”

I’m still confused why you thought it would work that way

The words said “you may kill Steve” or whoever. They didn’t say I had to know who Steve was.

Why would you just be able to kill someone without knowing who they are

What kind of a crappy role is that!

[tutuu]

wp wolves, tough game

ted wtf i asked if ur a survivor fan and u told me u dont watch it???

i didn't actually watch it

i just stumbled across a google drive with the villains vs heroes season lol

i am not joking when I'm saying euros don't have it, I need to make a CBS subscription or something

i mostly watched the immunity challenges on youtube and best moments from <insert random player>

ok sorry for accusing u of being a liar ur not a liar im just dumb

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Now that this game is over we need four more for mine: viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1946

#shamelessplug

[Vulgard]

GG WP

[112]

gg

[Long Con]

Great game, Ash and Poison! And Tony, of course, RIP.

Nominated for Funniest Post Socky.

Spoiled chat was mostly just being in awe at the sheer number of posts from townies that were literally clearing exactly the wolves and nobody else lol

Guilty as charged.

Then I asked him if he wanted me to back off and he was like “no, go harder”.

This is getting steamy...

We never intended for him to actually die lol.

Poison played a great meta shattering game, Ash played a comically hard bus on someone who didn't even flip. Doesn't ever really look teamed. This was a hard game.

I mean I'm not taking another "disrespect read" from anybody. Tbh, It was really humiliating to survive in F3 in the champs only because of my meta and losing town the game at the end. Sigh. Had to change the play at some point.

Yeah... that was about believing you were far out of your wolf range, right? Guess you busted that myth.

honestly don’t get why it wasn’t allowed

from what ive heard its a cultural / nostalgic thing for the syndicate (or maybe before the syndicate? people from lostpedia? dunno)

personally i also dislike it, i disliked it in radiohead too, i think there are more modern and better solutions

the future is now, old man

Spider-verse... role madness with soup kill to shut everyone up about it.

I claimed and everything and then I went to use my power and Nanook was like “no that’s not what I meant”

I’m still confused why you thought it would work that way

The words said “you may kill Steve” or whoever. They didn’t say I had to know who Steve was.

I believe I was "Steve"...