JJJ's Hosting Balance Worksheet

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Also JOAT is cop/doctor/vig/RB?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

That 15-player matrix was definitely adapted at some point. It's buried in the PMs between MP and I somewhere. Setup A is probably overpowered for the civilians, for example.

We could have a Matrix Thread in the Lounge storing all of those, imo. With balance discussions and whatnot.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Also JOAT is cop/doctor/vig/RB?

I believe our intent was to adapt its abilities given the other roles in play. It was typically 1-shot X, 1-shot Y, 1-shot Z (3 shots total).

That 15-player matrix was definitely adapted at some point. It's buried in the PMs between MP and I somewhere. Setup A is probably overpowered for the civilians, for example.

We could have a Matrix Thread in the Lounge storing all of those, imo. With balance discussions and whatnot.

By all means. Honestly MP and I threw it all together in a bit of a rush, so there are probably further tweaks that could be made. I know at one point I saw something I didn't like (a vigilante alone against formidable mafia numbers or something like that). With more time it could all be sorted.

Matrices can be tough, because fixing one setup can cause the cross-setup to get jacked up. It's a delicate procedure.

[Golden]

Beginning to think about the possibility of a fully non-vanilla matrix

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Beginning to think about the possibility of a fully non-vanilla matrix

Have fun!

[Dragon D. Luffy]

@JaggedJimmyJay where can I find those mafia matrixes you guys use to make games?

Click the spoiler:

Spoiler: show

15 players (12 vs. 3):

I don't believe this is 100% current. As we've noticed little issues we have tweaked the matrices, and all of those tweaks probably aren't reflected here.

Hey man I went to grab this image to show it to a friend but the link is broken.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I also had links for the <15 setups and they are all broken. Maybe I should have saved them.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Btw I'm playing a game in my other site which uses another type of pre-made setup from MafiaScum which I thought it pretty cool. It's called C9++

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=C9%2B%2B

It follows the same idea of matrixes in which the setup is a puzzle but it's simpler and also harder for players to figure out.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I’ll see if I can fix the images soon, thanks for the heads up.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]Dragon D. Luffy[/mention]

Here's the matrix MP is using currently (the same one I helped construct):

Spoiler: show

Then 15 players:

Futurama Mafia

[Dragomir]

Can you make another hi with 3rd parties this town? At least those ratio sheets please.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Heist matrices updates:



Role index:

Spoiler: show

9 Players

1-shot cop w/ n0 peek -- Alignment investigator with a single usage of their investigation ability (can determine whether target player is civilian or mafia), also begins the game with a free randomized investigation on another civilian (n0 peek is never on a mafioso).
Doctor -- Can protect target player from the mafia faction kill
1-shot tracker -- Once during the game can investigate another player to learn who they targeted that night if anyone
2-shot doctor -- Same as Doctor, but can only act during two separate nights during the game

Roleblocker -- Prevents target player's role from functioning
2-shot role cop -- On two separate nights can investigate a player to learn their role
1-shot strongman / 1-shot role cop -- Once during the game can kill a player and bypass any protections / Once during the game can investigate a player to learn their role

10 Players

1-shot cop -- Alignment investigator with a single usage of their investigation ability (can determine whether target player is civilian or mafia)
2-shot doctor -- Same as Doctor, but can only act during two separate nights during the game
2-shot tracker -- On two separate nights can investigate another player to learn who they targeted that night if anyone
1-shot doublevoter -- Once during the game can elect to make their day phase vote worth two instead of one*

Roleblocker -- Prevents target player's role from functioning
1-shot doublevoter -- Once during the game can elect to make their day phase vote worth two instead of one*

11 Players

2-shot tracker -- On two separate nights can investigate another player to learn who they targeted that night if anyone
2-shot doctor -- Same as Doctor, but can only act during two separate nights during the game
1-shot watcher -- Once during the game can investigate a player to learn who targeted them that night if anyone
Beloved princess -- When eliminated the game via day voting, the mafia are granted two faction kills the following night instead of one. When eliminated via night kill, the following day phase is skipped.

1-shot vigilante -- Once during the game can target a player and kill them
Revenge killer -- When eliminated from the game, can target any other player and kill them immediately

12 Players

Cop w/ n0 peek -- Alignment investigator that can operate every night (can determine whether target player is civilian or mafia), also begins the game with a free randomized investigation on another civilian (n0 peek is never on a mafioso).
1-shot doublevoter -- Once during the game can elect to make their day phase vote worth two instead of one*
1-shot misdirector -- Once during the game can target one player A and a separate player B. Player A will target player B that night instead of their intended targt.
Roleblocker -- Prevents target player's role from functioning
Tracker -- Investigates a player to learn who they targeted at night
Watcher -- Investigates a player to learn who targeted them at night
Doctor -- Protects a player from the mafia faction kill

13 Players

Cop w/ n0 peek -- Alignment investigator that can operate every night (can determine whether target player is civilian or mafia), also begins the game with a free randomized investigation on another civilian (n0 peek is never on a mafioso).
2-shot tracker -- On two separate nights can investigate another player to learn who they targeted that night if anyone
2-shot doctor -- Same as Doctor, but can only act during two separate nights during the game
2-shot doublevoter -- Twice during the game can elect to make their day phase vote worth two instead of one*

Godfather -- Appears to be a civilian when investigated by a cop

14 Players

2-shot cop -- Alignment investigator with two usages on separate nights of their investigation ability (can determine whether target player is civilian or mafia)
1-shot cop -- Alignment investigator with a single usage of their investigation ability (can determine whether target player is civilian or mafia)
2-shot tracker -- On two separate nights can investigate another player to learn who they targeted that night if anyone
2-shot doctor -- Same as Doctor, but can only act during two separate nights during the game
1-shot bodyguard -- Once during the game can protect a player from the mafia faction kill and die in their place
1-shot watcher / 1-shot tracker -- Once during the game can investigate a player to learn who targeted them that night if anyone / Once during the game can investigate a player to learn who they targeted that night if anyone

Godfather -- Appears to be a civilian when investigated by a cop
Roleblocker -- Prevents target player's role from functioning
1-shot strongman -- Once during the game can deliver the faction kill and bypass any protections on the target

15 Players

1-shot cop -- Alignment investigator with a single usage of their investigation ability (can determine whether target player is civilian or mafia)
1-shot doublevoter -- Once during the game can elect to make their day phase vote worth two instead of one*
2-shot doctor -- Same as Doctor, but can only act during two separate nights during the game
2-shot tracker -- On two separate nights can investigate another player to learn who they targeted that night if anyone

Roleblocker -- Prevents target player's role from functioning
1-shot doublevoter -- Once during the game can elect to make their day phase vote worth two instead of one*


*NOTE: All doublevoters regardless of alignment should not function when any game reaches an endgame phase wherein the result of the day elimination can dictate that the mafia and/or the town win the game.

[G-Man]

You’re missing the G-Man matrix.

[Long Con]

How many town balances 8 mafia?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Depends upon the style of the game. It could be anywhere from like 24-32 (fewer for a more role-heavy game with legal claiming, more for a role-light game or one with no claiming).

[Long Con]

Role-heavy with legal claiming BUT several uncomplicated reasons why claiming can be bad.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think a ratio of about 3.6:1 civilian:mafia (29 civilians and 8 mafia) would be appropriate pending the specifics of the roles. If the game introduces deliberately confusing mechanics, I would lean possible biases toward a town-favored orientation.