Corrupt!? Mafia (ENDGAME)

[Hyena]

I've been doing some thinking, and I think I want to stick to the townreads and PoE that I original had -- {me, Funny, G-Man} town, and {Jack, Boo, Wilgy} PoE. Obviously, the only person in that towncore that I can give the gun to right now is G-Man. I'm okay with losing to him if he's scum. I feel like the emotional reaction he had around D2ish(?) kinda cleared him for me.

Coincidentally, Boo is already voting for him. If my townread on G-Man is accurate and my PoE is accurate, then Boo is voting town when he could be trying to vote for scum to get the gun if Boo is scum.

Thus, this is what I'm going to propose -- we give the gun to G-Man, and he shoots Jack. In theory, this should clear Boo for tomorrow, which means if Jack flips scum and Funny gets poisoned, we can give the gun to Boo tomorrow. The only person who has been pushing a Jack+Boo world is coincidentally Wilgy, which is who I'd want Boo to shoot tomorrow if we get to that point. I know a Jack+Wilgy world makes even less sense than Wilgy being scum by himself, but I'm throwing logic out the door at this point and sticking to my intuition.

[Hyena]

Anyway,

[VOTE: G-Man] aubergine

[G-Man]

Quoting overlaps and interactions between Boo & Funnygurl:

DAY 1:

yeah ok i don't like g-man. you're town-reading boo for being logical and talking about strategy and mechanics? yo what does that actually have to do with scum hunting and finding reads?

Funnygurl doesn't like my read on Boo and assumes it is a town read. I don't believe it was a town read at that point. I was working on figuring out who to trust with the gun. I think there was a difference on Day 1, but she hadn't mentioned Boo at all yet up to that point (unless she didn't quote him in a response- I have to say that not using the quote feature runs rampant in her posts, which makes ISO'ing difficult).

i actually would like to know why nutella is scum reading boo. for the record i'm not-- i just think g-man's tr of him is bs

After suspecting me for liking Boo, she suspects Nutella for distrusting Boo. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with Boo yet, but rather the way people approach Boo.

i acknowledge your suspicion of boo nutella but it isn't something i can buy without experience playing with him i guess

Here Funnygurl says she can't buy into Nutella's sus of Boo becauseFunnygurl hasn't played with Boo. It's still Day 1, so newness is still a thing. I've struggled with it all game.

I was not saying you would do the shooting. I was saying you were setting up getting me getting shot. You don't need the gun to direct where who gets it will aim it. And it's cleaner for mafia to not get it but have a hand in directing it.

And you know all of that, and it's the second time you've blatantly misrepresented what I have said; the first being when my talking about the mechanics was somehow trying to control what other people are doing.

I hope my last post clears this up a little but I am sorry if I've misrepresented you -- I was posting very late last night and was very much not eloquent and having trouble putting my thoughts into words so I think I mis-articulated some things, particularly the idea that you were trying to "impose" anything on anyone. I didn't mean it that way at all, just a looser idea that you were trying to apply your way of thinking to someone else's content in a way that didn't mesh with their original intentions. I'm not trying to say that your approach is wrong, just that it was misapplied to Mac's approach and I originally thought that you were nefariously trying to make him look bad out of nothing, but I can see that you may have legitimately had that interpretation. I don't know. I'm undecided on you now.

And sure, I was trying to push you as a candidate for shooting. But again nothing is set in stone at this point of the phase and now that I'm not screaming that you're "100% scum" I would appreciate the same courtesy. I was pushing my strong read at the time, which is what I believe townies should do. I was not trying to control the narrative in order to ensure a misfire, as you are insisting.

No, I'm not dropping you as a candidate for shooting. But I also was never in the group of wanting a fixed candidate. I'd want a minimum of three choices that the person who gets the gun is allowed to choose from, with the understanding if they stray outside that they got shot next. This early on expanding it to more like 4 or 5 because of how conflicting the different reads will be though seems best. Either way, you'd be the top name on my short-list. Along with Mac. Sloonei and Funnygurl to currently round it out.

Here Boo lists Funnygurl in his shot list for Night 1. There were no direct quotes or interactions between them up to this point.

I was not saying you would do the shooting. I was saying you were setting up getting me getting shot. You don't need the gun to direct where who gets it will aim it. And it's cleaner for mafia to not get it but have a hand in directing it.

And you know all of that, and it's the second time you've blatantly misrepresented what I have said; the first being when my talking about the mechanics was somehow trying to control what other people are doing.

boo = town

nutella = scum

this isn't distancing; it's not w/w

She's right that it wasn't distancing. This is her first declared stance on Boo.

I was not saying you would do the shooting. I was saying you were setting up getting me getting shot. You don't need the gun to direct where who gets it will aim it. And it's cleaner for mafia to not get it but have a hand in directing it.

And you know all of that, and it's the second time you've blatantly misrepresented what I have said; the first being when my talking about the mechanics was somehow trying to control what other people are doing.

boo = town

nutella = scum

this isn't distancing; it's not w/w

Here is Boo's first direct response to a Funnygurl post. He doesn't believe something in her post, but it's unclear. She asks for clarification if Boo thinks Nutella is scum. His response:

Funnygurl555 No, I don't think nutella is town. but I don't think you're town either. I wouldn't go so far as to partner you, way too early for that. but one of you is mafia. I'd probably shoot you over her, or at least argue for your inclusion in the short list over hers.

Boo backs up having her on his shoot list by declaring a scum read on her. There's no reasoning behind it though. Boo just keeps it vague.


At the same time all this is happening, Dragomir questioned why Funnygurl thought Nutella was backtracking. She provided the information here. Dragomir's response led to a soft town read:

I was not saying you would do the shooting. I was saying you were setting up getting me getting shot. You don't need the gun to direct where who gets it will aim it. And it's cleaner for mafia to not get it but have a hand in directing it.

And you know all of that, and it's the second time you've blatantly misrepresented what I have said; the first being when my talking about the mechanics was somehow trying to control what other people are doing.

I hope my last post clears this up a little but I am sorry if I've misrepresented you -- I was posting very late last night and was very much not eloquent and having trouble putting my thoughts into words so I think I mis-articulated some things, particularly the idea that you were trying to "impose" anything on anyone. I didn't mean it that way at all, just a looser idea that you were trying to apply your way of thinking to someone else's content in a way that didn't mesh with their original intentions. I'm not trying to say that your approach is wrong, just that it was misapplied to Mac's approach and I originally thought that you were nefariously trying to make him look bad out of nothing, but I can see that you may have legitimately had that interpretation. I don't know. I'm undecided on you now.

And sure, I was trying to push you as a candidate for shooting. But again nothing is set in stone at this point of the phase and now that I'm not screaming that you're "100% scum" I would appreciate the same courtesy. I was pushing my strong read at the time, which is what I believe townies should do. I was not trying to control the narrative in order to ensure a misfire, as you are insisting.

here you go drago

Thanks. Hmm, I would not give Nutella a bad read for that post.

why's that? i can't metaread nutella yet but i'd generally scum read someone for a play like that

I would too due to the diplomacy that they got going on but this one I don't agree with. I think Nutella genuinely felt sorry there and she really thought she was wrong. She gave a deep explanation for it and while she ended up being on the fence on Boo, the thought process towards it makes sense to me. This is something I can easily see someone from both alignments doing but coming from a genuine place, you get me?

alright. i mean i can't use that to influence my own read of her but i appreciate the info and think it makes you look good

Funnygurl asks for Boo's confidence level in Boo's assertion that there's a wolf between her and Nutella. It doesn't look like he responded directly.


Night 1, Boo switched over to calling Funnygurl FG (I almost missed that).

Why were so many people town reading Hyena? He feels way scummy and his FG interactions are hamfisted.

I was working with him (and Gman kinda boarded that train toward EoD) because he was approaching things in a similar enough way to me that it was a better alternative. I don't townread. I'm not sure that I trust him. I don't agree with you about FG though.

You don't think his interactions with FG are hamfisted?

I didn't at the time. I'll re-read it though, and get you more specific thoughts.

Yea, I still think FG comes out of it looking worse. But I'd rank it as being pretty ambivalent about both of them.

He is still suspicious of her.



Funnygurl doesn't mention Boo at all until the waning hours of Day 2, where she reiterates a town read. Boo mentioned Funnygurl in the final 12 hours of Day 2 as well:

ayy johann is so town so town so town

the drago read is spicy

The Drago read is parroting the thread.

This puts down both Dragomir's read from that time and Funnygurl's declaration that Dragomir's read is spicy.

...and responds to Funnygurl's town read on him:

boo is town

Yes, although I'm not sure if you're supposed to be able to confidently state that if you are...

There's shade here, which makes me call into question the possibility of a Dragomir-Boo-Funnygurl team. If it exists, that means that Boo is shading both of his teammates very early in the game. That doesn't give a very health path to victory in case others start to suspect Dragomir and Funnygurl. Dragomir got shot Night 2. Maintaining sus of Funnygurl means risking the necessity of soloing your way to victory if people turn on her.

But, on Night 2, Boo tells Nanook not to shoot Funnygurl.

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

Kill 2:
Jack & Hyena

Don't kill:
FG & Mac

Day 3, Boo is amenable to giving Funnygurl the gun if people don't want him to have it:

@G-Man Jack and Mac are running a divide and conquer gambit. It's playing off of Johann's total distrust of me, your and Wilgy's general not keeping up, FGs regularly going all over the place as she tries to make up her mind, and my ability to generally alienate other town. I'm not really sure how they're fitting in Hyena.

If you trust your gut, (currently) vote for me, along with me and Nanook. We may need to shift the vote over to FG later in the day, bit that's where things currently stand.

There's not much more direct interaction between the two at this point. Funnygurl is willing to vote for Boo to get the gun at one point, and she quotes Boo or quotes other people's quotes that have Boo nested in them.

There is this little bit of defense of her townread on Boo to Johann when he was on the prowl:

I doubt scum jack poisons me btw considering i was strongly townreading him a lot of yesterday and changed the shot off him last night, regardless of how widely townread I am. That is unless a different partner needed me dead, but worth thinking about. I would say I am likely dying for being consensus town so my scumreads while a good reference point aren't going to be everything, but mafia I am townreading would still have no reason to want me dead. So if anything probably take away my townread from my death rather than my scumreads

All townreads of someone poisoned are inherently irrelevant.

Once poisoned, you cannot get the gun. Who you trust is not going to weigh into who will then be shot the night after you die.

SR reads can be more relevant, if the mafia think they'll hold enough water to result in someone you suspect getting shot.

So, as with most mafia kills, it all boils down to WIFOM of "would they kill someone to (soon) shut them up, so people ignore their SR" vs "their SR are relevant and we should listen to them... ah shit, they weren't actually relevant and we got town" vs "their SR are relevant and we should listen to them... but maybe they expected that, so let's not listen!" vs etc, etc.

The only useful takeaway from your being poisoned is that the mafia we have here went for the unimaginative option. You were the runnerup for the gun, and in general unlikely to ever be shot, and poisoning you means you cannot get the gun today. Those are all directly useful things we don't have to wonder about them thinking, they're why you're the unimaginative option. But the mafia can't control if and how your reads come into play by deciding to kill you. It's even WIFOM for them until it goes through, because they don't know how the town will react to it.

this is why i tr'd boo

For that?
For talking game mechanics?

well from that i don't think killing duskfall would be boo's decision, and i also think boo would really wanna talk about sTrAtEgY in a maf chat

And then there's this:

@G-Man Jack and Mac are running a divide and conquer gambit. It's playing off of Johann's total distrust of me, your and Wilgy's general not keeping up, FGs regularly going all over the place as she tries to make up her mind, and my ability to generally alienate other town. I'm not really sure how they're fitting in Hyena.

If you trust your gut, (currently) vote for me, along with me and Nanook. We may need to shift the vote over to FG later in the day, bit that's where things currently stand.

In case you get the gun.
Who dies?

TBD. Nanook had a list somewhere, someone in it. I'd like to think Mac and Jack are teammates, but it seems a bit too easy. I think it's probably only actually one of them, and the other is playing the other.

I can see Mac as scum more than Jack
Sell me that pitch by your words and not nanooks

I'm not really invested in you voting with me. Whichever one of them hatched this scheme doesn't expect you to be on my side of this, and even then, I still see being able to get the numbers to burn them on what they did here. So if you're more open-minded then they thought, it's still easier for me to show you that it's worth risking trusting me through my interactions with other people, not directly with you. You don't trust me. Fair enough. I've given you reason not to. So you're to tunneled on me to not be able to find a way to doubt anything I can tell you. If you have more specific questions I can try and help you get there that way, but I'm not going to be able to sell you on trusting me in the way you're asking here.

;______; this looks townie y'all

And there are a few other posts that seem like hard defenses of Boo. At this point I waver on them again. Boo seems like a viable target in the minds of several people at this point, so a hard defense is probably a mistake. If Funnygurl and Boo are the last pair, then defending Boo like she does is a mistake. It sticks out like a sore thumb in retrospect, and doesn't provide her the cover she needs to solo to endgame. Now, nobody shot Boo Nights 3 or 4. Night 3, Johann shot Mac, and Night 4, Funnygurl shot Nanook.

Boo disappeared for most of Day 4, in which Jack vs Nanook played out. Funnygurl gets the gun and jumps all around about who to shoot. At one point she seems settled on Boo. She says reading Jack's ISO turned her back to shooting Boo. But in the end, she shoots Nanook.

When Day 5 begins, he's got Funnygurl back in his sights hard over shooting Nanook instead of himself or Jack:

The real question is wtf anyone still thought shooting Nanook was a good idea.

Boo also has a few posts where he tries to shut down Hyena's defense of Funnygurl.

Jack & FG are the mafia.

At this point, I have to wonder again. Jack and Boo enter the day looking like the two most likely suspects. Does Boo really think he can solo to victory by hard bussing Funnygurl? Or does Boo think hard bussing his teammate will help Funnygurl solo to victory by giving her deeper cover and clouding our thoughts after Boo gets shot and flips mafia? I don't see the winning strategy here. If this is what's happening, it seems like a reckless way to try to win. You're more likely to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory going down this road.

------------------------------------------------

Overall, it's a more interesting case than I thought it would be, but there are a few too many points where such a pairing (and even the triangulation with Dragomir) breaks down from a strategy and execution standpoint. Going through this I think validates what Jack was saying about Funnygurl only possibly pairing with Nanook. If I put my tinfoil on, I can see how they got lucky Day and Night 3, and Day 4 with Funnygurl getting the gun while Boo takes a hike to let Jack vs Nanook reach fever pitch. I have my doubts.


As an aside, I need to do this another way. This took way too much time to work through three ISOs at the same time. Forgive me for being a little less Sloonei-esque from here on out.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I've been doing some thinking, and I think I want to stick to the townreads and PoE that I original had -- {me, Funny, G-Man} town, and {Jack, Boo, Wilgy} PoE. Obviously, the only person in that towncore that I can give the gun to right now is G-Man. I'm okay with losing to him if he's scum. I feel like the emotional reaction he had around D2ish(?) kinda cleared him for me.

Coincidentally, Boo is already voting for him. If my townread on G-Man is accurate and my PoE is accurate, then Boo is voting town when he could be trying to vote for scum to get the gun if Boo is scum.

Thus, this is what I'm going to propose -- we give the gun to G-Man, and he shoots Jack. In theory, this should clear Boo for tomorrow, which means if Jack flips scum and Funny gets poisoned, we can give the gun to Boo tomorrow. The only person who has been pushing a Jack+Boo world is coincidentally Wilgy, which is who I'd want Boo to shoot tomorrow if we get to that point. I know a Jack+Wilgy world makes even less sense than Wilgy being scum by himself, but I'm throwing logic out the door at this point and sticking to my intuition.

Buuuut if GMan shoots me, we lose.

[Hyena]

I've been doing some thinking, and I think I want to stick to the townreads and PoE that I original had -- {me, Funny, G-Man} town, and {Jack, Boo, Wilgy} PoE. Obviously, the only person in that towncore that I can give the gun to right now is G-Man. I'm okay with losing to him if he's scum. I feel like the emotional reaction he had around D2ish(?) kinda cleared him for me.

Coincidentally, Boo is already voting for him. If my townread on G-Man is accurate and my PoE is accurate, then Boo is voting town when he could be trying to vote for scum to get the gun if Boo is scum.

Thus, this is what I'm going to propose -- we give the gun to G-Man, and he shoots Jack. In theory, this should clear Boo for tomorrow, which means if Jack flips scum and Funny gets poisoned, we can give the gun to Boo tomorrow. The only person who has been pushing a Jack+Boo world is coincidentally Wilgy, which is who I'd want Boo to shoot tomorrow if we get to that point. I know a Jack+Wilgy world makes even less sense than Wilgy being scum by himself, but I'm throwing logic out the door at this point and sticking to my intuition.

Buuuut if GMan shoots me, we lose.

Then we lose together again, friend. <3

[Hyena]

It'll be okay. I'll take the blame again for the loss if we do lose.

[Funnygurl555]

kk hyena im game

[Funnygurl555]

g-man i'll try your pairings thing out but rn im t i r e d i ate a calzone last night and woke up with a hangover and i've just been sleepin

i mean it was a good calzone i was fulfilled briefly

[Jackofhearts2005]

I've been doing some thinking, and I think I want to stick to the townreads and PoE that I original had -- {me, Funny, G-Man} town, and {Jack, Boo, Wilgy} PoE. Obviously, the only person in that towncore that I can give the gun to right now is G-Man. I'm okay with losing to him if he's scum. I feel like the emotional reaction he had around D2ish(?) kinda cleared him for me.

Coincidentally, Boo is already voting for him. If my townread on G-Man is accurate and my PoE is accurate, then Boo is voting town when he could be trying to vote for scum to get the gun if Boo is scum.

Thus, this is what I'm going to propose -- we give the gun to G-Man, and he shoots Jack. In theory, this should clear Boo for tomorrow, which means if Jack flips scum and Funny gets poisoned, we can give the gun to Boo tomorrow. The only person who has been pushing a Jack+Boo world is coincidentally Wilgy, which is who I'd want Boo to shoot tomorrow if we get to that point. I know a Jack+Wilgy world makes even less sense than Wilgy being scum by himself, but I'm throwing logic out the door at this point and sticking to my intuition.

Buuuut if GMan shoots me, we lose.

Then we lose together again, friend. <3

I don't wanna lose again. We found each other as town there and tinfoiled into a loss. I don't want to do that.

Do you agree that if Boo is town, we just lose anyway so we can safely shoot there and it can only help?

Giving the gun to GMan means we bet the game on GMan being town (which might not be a bad idea but I'd rather take another 72 hours to decide on that) and then we bet the game on GMan shooting a wolf.

If you and FG trust GMan more than you trust me, fine. Cause giving the gun to me is the same calculation except I know I'm town. The rest of the town still has to bet the game on that being true, same as if they give GMan the gun.

But it can never be "Give X the gun and shoot Jack."

[Jackofhearts2005]

Here ya go. Here's me eliminating all pairings that Jack could be a part of --

So, I remembered eliminating certain pairings that Jack could be in, but I couldn't remember which ones, outside of Boo --

I kinda want to shoot Jack. Does anyone object?

I have no reason to single Jack out as a suspect. He wasn't here when I was here last night. But at least if he gets shot he can preserve his unlynchable claim some more.

I don't like that Jack is acting low key. He's also skating. He also won't get lynched if he's scum. I think he's a good shot. Maybe not the most likely to flip wolf but he's the most likely to flip wolf in a way that destroys the scum team if he is one.

Also I do think he is one. I don't believe half the shit he says. He's just applied an urgent scattery tone to the few posts he's made that makes it look authentic. He cleared Johann off being wrongtown and I never understand people that do that. Johann/Jack feel teamy to me.

I agree with the feel of Jack, but I wouldn't think them to be w/w.

That's two of the people you had previously confirmed. Was there anything other than the above that changed that?

So, if Jack is actually Wilgy's partner, would he push Jack but ALSO defend Johann here? Like, if his partner Jack flipped mafia, he'd WANT people to think Johann could be teamed with him. So, like, I'm pretty confident in saying that Jack and Wilgy are never w/w here.

I still stand by this read. Thus, in my mind --

Jack/Wilgy isn't a thing based on the above reasoning
Jack/Boo isn't a thing based on their arguments against each other since, like, D3?
Jack/Funny isn't a thing because that would require Funny to be mafia, which I don't believe is the case.
Jack/Johann isn't a thing because Johann is confirmed town by being poisoned.
Jack/Hyena isn't a thing because I'm town.
Jack/Nanook could be a thing, but they get found if we stick to the current plan.
The only other person (in the game) is G-Man, but G-Man's now trying to pair him with Nanook as the scum team.

Thus, I don't think I'd want to go after Jack today.

What happened to this?

Is it better or worse than your reasoning for giving GMan the gun?

[Jackofhearts2005]

I have this probably unreasonable fear that in trying to solve which of my 3 player POE are the 2 wolves, I'm going to make the townie in that group feel like I'm trying to get them mislynched and make it both impossible for me to get the gun (with all 3 members of the poe refusing to vote for me) and encourage the poe to defend themselves and tinfoil me instead of actually do anything that would solve the game.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Like my inner self is screaming at me to both do lots of talking and to do no talking at all.

Wish people would just vote for me or at least finalize their presumed wolfteams.

Like Wilgy thinks it's me and Boo which is nuts. GMan is slowly working down a POE which is fine but there's no answer as of now. Boo thinks it's me and FG which is also nuts but whatever.

There's nothing for me to work with there. Nuts and unfinished.

Can [mention]Funnygurl555[/mention] and [mention]Hyena[/mention] just give me the gun under the idea that at least I have no partner? And then we can start talking about who should be shot? Mechanically confirming me town at least forces Boo and Wilgy to do something instead of sitting on bad reads that may or may not be fake.

[Hyena]

Here ya go. Here's me eliminating all pairings that Jack could be a part of --
-snipped-

What happened to this?

Is it better or worse than your reasoning for giving GMan the gun?

Well, like, if my initial towncore was correct, then yeah, my reasoning for giving GMan the gun is better. I don't really have any good reason to scumread him at the moment.

[Hyena]

And yeah, figuring out who gets the gun today is just the first step in this whole process, because if scum gets the gun, the game just ends, because they just shoot town. Thus, as you mentioned, if we do move on to night phase after giving someone the gun, then that person is mechanically cleared.

G-Man is the safest person from my perspective to give the gun to. With that said, you did say something that I thought was a good point. If we give G-Man the gun, we have to bet that 1. He is town, and 2. He'll shoot scum. I do think he's more likely to be town than the other three of you? That leaves only #2. I think Wilgy automatically is scum regardless of which of you or Boo are scum, assuming I'm right about FG and G-Man being town. However, shooting him tonight doesn't really get us anywhere aside from giving you guys an extra day to talk about things.

[Hyena]

Ultimately, it feels like we're always going to come back to having to figure out you and Boo. If this is the case, then maybe it is a good idea to try to give one of you the gun, so that we can see if we can get one of you mechanically cleared.

[Hyena]

Ultimately, it feels like we're always going to come back to having to figure out you and Boo. If this is the case, then maybe it is a good idea to try to give one of you the gun, so that we can see if we can get one of you mechanically cleared.

Because from my perspective, there HAS to be at least one town between you two. I do not for a second believe you two are w/w.

[Hyena]

i slept and woke up and slept and woke up again. i trust that mac'll do the right thing. down to give it to dusk next

nutella, g-man, hyena, maybe wilgy are my poe anyways

there could be a deeper wolf in jack or sloonei but that's not a d1/n1 thing

this list looks stupid glad i don't gotta gun LOL

That sure is a low-hanging fruit salad

Hmm...

[Hyena]

So here's our path to victory.

You gotta just get Boo the fuck out. He's a wolf.

The other one is gonna get to lylo.

At lylo you just gotta shoot the person who shouldn't be there. I think it'll be Nook.

If we get to F4, don't use the gun, make them clear someone with the poison.

Easy as.

I'll probs get there too because I ain't about to be poisoned and frankly I'm too good at insisting people do what I say to get shot.

Mac wanted Boo out, and although he was scumreading Jack for part of the game, he eventually came around to calling Jack town.

[Hyena]

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: drwilgy] aubergine

The steady hand of a doctor is the only on we can trust with a shot like this.

This is the spiciest vote in the entire game. I don't know what to make of it.

[VOTE: drwilgy] aubergine

The steady hand of a doctor is the only on we can trust with a shot like this.

This is the spiciest vote in the entire game. I don't know what to make of it.

That Sloonei is dedicated to his vote not being a relevant factor, apparently?

Yes.

The vote is useless. Nobody's gonna wagon Wilgy, an inactive player with no more than one post, with roughly an hour left in the phase. Especially when the majority of the active players have formulated town cores.

Voting for Wilgy all of a sudden and even trying to get ppl on board is just worthy of an lol.

Now, I'm trying to decide as to what that means concerning Sloonei's alignment, if it has any meaning at all.

Do these posts exist if the mafia team is wilgy/boo/drago?

Hmm...
Is it just me or does Drago's tone shift between the second and third post Sloonei quoted here?

[Hyena]

I think I was mostly poisoned for being consensus town

But I think towny people are like Nanook/funny/jack/g man/slonnei

If I had gun tonight id shoot boo or dragomir

People that I'm not sure on yet Mac, Id refer to Nanook and sloonei for this one but I agree with what they said. Nanook mentioned his demand of the gun then lack of responsibility for it. Sloonei mentioned something that I forget but I agreed with it it was good wtf was it again lol? Sloonei cover for me

Hyena is kinda bad but I think shoot later not yet

Johann was good early but faded away so needs re evaluating probably tomorrow but not a shot for today

Dusk thought Jack was town, too, before he died. And again, he said Boo would've been one of the people he would have considered shooting in addition to Dragomir. If he were right on both of those two, that would be a good reason to poison him N1.

[Hyena]

lol, okay

I'm either making a hero play or a gamethrowing one here.

[VOTE: Jack] aubergine

[Hyena]

Funny, why couldn't you have just shot Boo last night? ;-; That would've made things easier, I think.

[Hyena]

Wait, wasn't someone pushing a Johann+Jack world at some point while Johann was still alive? Who was that?

[Hyena]

Skimming Dusk's iso, I think he was poisoned for being a consensus townread, not for having particularly scary reads since he was mostly after Hyena and Nutella and not even that harshly. Pushes my Hyena read south slightly all the same.

So here is our player list with players I have a reason to townread besides "Idk they feel pretty townie" (ie Hyena and Nanook) are crossed out

boo
Dragomir
DrWilgy
Duskfall
Funnygurl555
G-Man
Hyena
Jackofhearts2005
Johann
MacDougall
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Sloonei


So let's look at...

boo
DrWilgy
Funnygurl555
Hyena
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Sloonei

Those first three.

Why were you townreading Dragomir when you made this post, Jack?

[G-Man]

Quixotic pairing: DrWily & Funnygurl

Wilgy hardly mentions Funnygurl until Day 3, when he considers her a poor shot target. He also begins to express some reservations about her in one post. Night 4 he seems caught up in Funnygurl's indecisiveness. He shows preference for Boo being shot Night 4 and expresses disappointment and frustration that Boo wasn't shot in the end. Despite that, today he considers Funnygurl an unlikely baddie partner for Boo and myself, but does not list a pairing of Jack and Funnygurl on his tiered list.

Funnygurl lists Wilgy in her POE Day 1 but is indecisive of him by Night 2. Day 3 she seems to agree with Hyena that Jack and Wilgy are not a likely combination and says she doesn't feel the need to evaluate a Jack/Wilgy pair unless Jack flips mafia. Day 4, she agrees with Nanook when he lumps Wilgy into a town cluster and lose if he's wrong. She interacts with him directly at the end of Day 4 when he starts having reservations about her. She says that Mac would have caught her with the tell he never revealed, so she must be civvie. She lists Wilgy as possible partners for Boo or Jack if either flips baddie, but she lists herself as potential partners with Nanook. She puts Wilgy in her four-person shoot list Night 4. Nanook was initially listed in her 'no shoot' list but she shot him anyway. We never find out how she rationalizes Wilgy off the shoot list. No mention of Wilgy so far today.

Bringing Dragomir into the mix, he did soft defend Funnygurl Day 1 to Sloonei. There was that interaction Day 1 that I had in my Boo-Funnygurl analysis as well. Then there's this little nugget on Day 2 that is just warm enough to keep the case alive:

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME what do you think about shooting Wilgy or FG? Nobody's talking about them.

That's about the most Dragomir said about either of them on Day 2. That's also about the most substantive thing Dragomir said about WIlgy all game before he died.

-----------------------------------------------

I mean, there's a little bit there, but it's a weird mixture of over-distancing out of the gate and then relying on Funnygurl's topsy-turvy game to throw everyone off the scent in the heat of Day and Night 4. I can see how Funnygurl would really not take too much heat for killing any of the three of Boo, Jack, and Nanook, but she made a bit of a show out of it that seems like poor strategy from a baddie. You've got to be really confident that the remaining two from that pool are going to be in the spotlight by default again and hope that Wilgy gets the gun to end it quick or a civ gets the gun and makes another poor choice.

If they are the baddies, it was an artful scheme that got just creaky enough to be seen at the end. I think I'm too far down the rabbit hole to try to make this a top-tier case.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Ultimately, it feels like we're always going to come back to having to figure out you and Boo. If this is the case, then maybe it is a good idea to try to give one of you the gun, so that we can see if we can get one of you mechanically cleared.

Because from my perspective, there HAS to be at least one town between you two. I do not for a second believe you two are w/w.

Boo and I probably shoot each other if given the gun.

So the first question is if you think there’s any chance at all we’re both town.

If not, giving the gun to the more townie of us kills a wolf.

If you somehow determine we’re t/t (and i don’t think we are), you have to give the gun to me and then convince me it’s GMan+Wilgy. I don’t think town Boo ever reevaluates me even if he is town. None of his scumreads flipping town has caused him to reevaluate any of his previous reads.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Funny, why couldn't you have just shot Boo last night? ;-; That would've made things easier, I think.

It would have and it’s my and Nanook’s fault.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Or maybe not. If Boo is indeed scum, his flip would have made me more convinced it was Nanook. He probably gets shot today and we’re in the same place, still not knowing for sure if it’s Wilgy or GMan.

Maybe I get poisoned instead of you. Idk if that makes things easier or not.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Skimming Dusk's iso, I think he was poisoned for being a consensus townread, not for having particularly scary reads since he was mostly after Hyena and Nutella and not even that harshly. Pushes my Hyena read south slightly all the same.

So here is our player list with players I have a reason to townread besides "Idk they feel pretty townie" (ie Hyena and Nanook) are crossed out

boo
Dragomir
DrWilgy
Duskfall
Funnygurl555
G-Man
Hyena
Jackofhearts2005
Johann
MacDougall
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Sloonei


So let's look at...

boo
DrWilgy
Funnygurl555
Hyena
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Sloonei

Those first three.

Why were you townreading Dragomir when you made this post, Jack?

There were iirc two posts Drago made pregame or D1 that looked really pure. One in relation to Nutella. In hindsight, it was a really undeserved townread. I can find the posts if you want. Think Sloonei quoted them in one of his walls.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Wait, wasn't someone pushing a Johann+Jack world at some point while Johann was still alive? Who was that?

Boo.

His refusal to explain the read was part of the reason he became widely scumread.

In reading Boo's iso, I'm seeing more aggression than hunting. Is that normal? @Sloonei @MacDougall

Like the previous post is a perfect example. He's not calling me scum. He's shoving me. Most of his iso is that. The rest is him flip flopping on Nutella and Duskfall reads.

I'd be okay with shooting this considering we're going to see less damning stuff in this setup than normal.

I didn't flip flop on nutella, I called her mafia all day. I also didn't really flip flop on Dusk. I didn't trust him, but I never would've gone for shooting him.

And while addressing my calling you out on not actually doing a proper read of Dusk, you didn't actually explain how you got that bad of information from reading his ISO.

So, here you are then: you're mafia Jack. Along with Johann. I wish there was a third J to include. JJJ, come sub in so we can shoot you.

What i find interesting is that i am scum to hyena and boo but neither made a case why

I'm not interested in advocating your getting shot yet. Jack would need to go first. The result of that would tie in to you.

Why not shoot me first tho?
If jack flip should give you info about me shouldnt my death also provide info for jack?

I just dont buy it. It sounds bad and it is bad.

You called me scum but never bothered to explain why
You called my theory about dusk dumb but never bothered to explain why

To me you are just smoke but no fire. Your accusations have no substance and thus you yourself have no substance. And i am perfectly okay if you get shot

No, he connects to you in certain demonstrable ways he has shown. It doesn't flip in the other direction.

I didn't call it dumb, I called it wrong.

To me, it doesn't matter what I am to you. You aren't going to get the gun today, so I don't need to preventing you from wanting to shoot me, and I don't want you shot yet, so it doesn't serve the order of my suspicions to go after you with every reason I have for it.

You're stuck in the mindset of there being lynches. View it all outside of that, and then let that make you play differently, and maybe it will make some sense to you.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Im loving what GMan is doing here.

[Funnygurl555]

oh my god what a sleep

[Funnygurl555]

you know, i think I had food poisoning yesterday

ill put in some effort when I'm off work

[G-Man]

Quarrelsome day in the house of G. We’re cleaning up the basement and I found two boxes of random cleaning supplies. Not knowing what I need and what I can pitch, I called my mother. Rather than just giving advice over the phone, she insists on coming over. You can imagine how happy that makes my wife, whose definition of a clean house is documented to be several levels below that of my mother’s. So yeah, give me the gun because it looks like I’ll have all night to work on more reads while I’m sleeping on the couch!

Trying to review while via sneaking short reading sessions when I can work them in. Casing Funnygurl and Jack is... extensive, mostly because they have the most posts of all non-poisoned living players left in the game.

From a strategic standpoint, I have my doubts based on how Funnygurl got the gun Day 4 and was a little spastic over the decision. I don’t know that that happens if they’re paired up unless they were that scared of chancing Nanook with the gun again. Even if Nanook did get the gun, a baddie Funnygurl is planted pretty deep in civ reads. She may only look suspicious post-Jack if she isn’t poisoned before Lylo.

I still have more work to do on this one, but it really seems like it’s Wilgy plus either Boo or Jack at this point.

Voting for myself now because I don’t trust anyone else who can get the gun today and I know that we’ll get an additional 24 hours to work this out if I receive it.

[Hyena]

Alright, I'll give you the gun, G-Man.

[VOTE: G-Man] aubergine

[G-Man]

Quoth the G-Man:

[VOTE: G-Man] aubergine


I realized I never actually cast my vote. Breathing in too many cleaner fumes!

[Jackofhearts2005]

Quarrelsome day in the house of G. We’re cleaning up the basement and I found two boxes of random cleaning supplies. Not knowing what I need and what I can pitch, I called my mother. Rather than just giving advice over the phone, she insists on coming over. You can imagine how happy that makes my wife, whose definition of a clean house is documented to be several levels below that of my mother’s. So yeah, give me the gun because it looks like I’ll have all night to work on more reads while I’m sleeping on the couch!

Trying to review while via sneaking short reading sessions when I can work them in. Casing Funnygurl and Jack is... extensive, mostly because they have the most posts of all non-poisoned living players left in the game.

From a strategic standpoint, I have my doubts based on how Funnygurl got the gun Day 4 and was a little spastic over the decision. I don’t know that that happens if they’re paired up unless they were that scared of chancing Nanook with the gun again. Even if Nanook did get the gun, a baddie Funnygurl is planted pretty deep in civ reads. She may only look suspicious post-Jack if she isn’t poisoned before Lylo.

I still have more work to do on this one, but it really seems like it’s Wilgy plus either Boo or Jack at this point.

Voting for myself now because I don’t trust anyone else who can get the gun today and I know that we’ll get an additional 24 hours to work this out if I receive it.

What’s the strongest reason I should believe that you’re town, that Wilgy is mafia and if you are given the gun (barring further digging), is your shot going to be Wilgy?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Alright, I'll give you the gun, G-Man.

[VOTE: G-Man] aubergine

How confident are you that GMan is town?

What’s the most convincing reason to townread him?

If GMan is town, him getting the gun solves the game fmpov and I think I can get a town GMan to shoot Wilgy or Boo over me, especially if he has a bunch of free time to read all of his Poe’s posts.

I’ll back this plan if you’re sure GMan is town.

[Hyena]

I like G-man. I'ma put a good read on him.

Why?

I think Sloonei mentioned this post, too, when talking about G-Man and Dragomir. Granted, it's easy to just ask why to a partner when they townread you, but if this was orchestrated, I feel like there should have been more than just a why? That interaction more feels like town asking someone why they townread them. Thus, they aren't with Dragomir?

[Jackofhearts2005]

I like G-man. I'ma put a good read on him.

Why?

I think Sloonei mentioned this post, too, when talking about G-Man and Dragomir. Granted, it's easy to just ask why to a partner when they townread you, but if this was orchestrated, I feel like there should have been more than just a why? That interaction more feels like town asking someone why they townread them. Thus, they aren't with Dragomir?

This is like identical to Drago’s reaction to my townread of him.

So...fine.

I’ve had a townread on GMan all game. Bet the game it’s Wilgy/Boo? Alright.

It’s not mechanically correct from my pov but it’s probably still a win. Mechanically correct over gut didn’t work last game so let’s go with the opposite.

[G-Man]

Quitting on a Funnygurl-Jack pairing:

Looking back through Dragomir's ISO, he did keep Funnygurl at arm's length a little. He asked a few people about their read on her Day 1, even defending her play this game by comparing to a previous game to Sloonei, but admits it's only one game of meta to base that on. That's a pretty poor foundation to build a townread on a teammate with. There's not much else of substance with or about Funnygurl except this, which was in my Wilgy-Funnygurl notes:

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME what do you think about shooting Wilgy or FG? Nobody's talking about them.

Now, the Dragomir-Jack connection has a little more oomph behind it, but I will expound upon that more when I get to my Jack-Wilgy analysis. In fairness, I need to go back and re-read Dragomir's ISO for Boo and Boo's for Drago again. Yesterday already feels forever ago.

What kills the whole thing is trying to link Funnygurl and Jack. Look at all this:

Spoiler: show

I am supremely uncomfortable with this "towncore." (I know people will say "Jack is just scum for pushing against a correct towncore" but I don't care.)

Nanook just endgame won against an entire town that scumread him. He basically soloed the win after losing one teammate D2 and the other had to be replaced twice and died the phase after the second replacement.

Nutella stepped up her scumgame a lot in the last two, three performances including fooling me (who would normally catch her on D1 or D2) and getting vig killed on like N3 after not being voted for a single time all game).

I am 0 and 3 in reading Dusk.

You might as well add Sloonei to the core if you really want to tilt me.

i like this post

You knowingly throwing out stupid ideas as a playstyle is something that would have effected my initial read if I had known you tend to do that but there's now other reasons to townread you.

reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee this guy i like this guy

i slept and woke up and slept and woke up again. i trust that mac'll do the right thing. down to give it to dusk next

nutella, g-man, hyena, maybe wilgy are my poe anyways

there could be a deeper wolf in jack or sloonei but that's not a d1/n1 thing

this list looks stupid glad i don't gotta gun LOL

damn there wasn't much to sift through.

my only objection to a jack shot is if he's town, then what? it's an inconsequential kill if he is

All this is from Day 1 and Night 1. I'm sorry, but this cannot be teammate behavior or it's just plain suicidal for the team. Funnygurl's posts are too pro-Jack for her own good as a teammate. If he gets lynched, this stands out like a sore thumb and she goes down shortly after Jack does. I'm not having it.




--------------------------------------

I still have more work to do on this one, but it really seems like it’s Wilgy plus either Boo or Jack at this point.

Voting for myself now because I don’t trust anyone else who can get the gun today and I know that we’ll get an additional 24 hours to work this out if I receive it.

What’s the strongest reason I should believe that you’re town, that Wilgy is mafia and if you are given the gun (barring further digging), is your shot going to be Wilgy?

1) You should believe that I am town because I am still here. I've been at least half a step behind everyone the whole game. If I was a threat, I would be gone already. The baddies are counting on me being either a useful idiot and voting for the wrong person (if I don't get the gun), or they can set me up as a deep-wolf decoy at Lylo if they don't get lucky with today's vote. I've been sitting as either a town read or on the edge of being a town read for "too long" when the paranoia and tinfoil kicks in, and they're counting on that. It's a smart play.

2) Wilgy and I are similar, I have to admit that. We're low-posting, semi-behind players. Wilgy is Wilgy though. He's known to be a low-posting kind of enigma. The mafia probably wants you to lean on the 'yeah, but WIlgy is always kinda like this so it's NAI' line to make him feel safer. But the clincher for me (besides the fact that my role card says I'm town, Funnygurl isn't in my POE anymore, and that I don't believe you and Boo are both mafia) is that Wilgy and Dragomir are guilty of the sin of avoidance. Wilgy doesn't mention Dragomir at all until Day 2. Dragomir never directly addresses Wilgy before he's killed. Dragomir only ever mentions Wilgy when he talks to other players about Wilgy. They never provide reads on each other. Maybe they intended to as the game developed, but they avoided each other early on. How many times has a baddie been caught before later on for this very sin?

3) With my POE being reduced to Boo, Wilgy, and yourself, Wilgy is my lock baddie. I don't believe in a world where you and Boo are teammates. One of you is Wilgy's teammate. If I get the gun, and I cannot sort out the baddie between you and Boo, then I will absolutely shoot Wilgy tonight to give us more time to unmask the last baddie in Lylo. The only viable night targets tonight are Funnygurl and me. Let them sweat over that choice.

[boo]

I no longer trust Gman. The amount of work he's now putting in has me worried he's trying to shore up getting people to vote for him and it's actually him and Wilgy.

I'm gonna go ahead and [VOTE: Jack] aubergine, cause if I've been wrong all game (and so far, that holds up), it clears him. Then he can either lose the town the game and shoot me (which admittedly, with how we've played, is deserved), or shoot Wilgy or something. I don't know. It doesn't matter. I can do no right, so fuck all of you!

[Hyena]

I no longer trust Gman. The amount of work he's now putting in has me worried he's trying to shore up getting people to vote for him and it's actually him and Wilgy.

I'm gonna go ahead and [VOTE: Jack] aubergine, cause if I've been wrong all game (and so far, that holds up), it clears him. Then he can either lose the town the game and shoot me (which admittedly, with how we've played, is deserved), or shoot Wilgy or something. I don't know. It doesn't matter. I can do no right, so fuck all of you!

As confirmed town, I'm requesting that we all vote for G-Man.

[DrWilgy]

I no longer trust Gman. The amount of work he's now putting in has me worried he's trying to shore up getting people to vote for him and it's actually him and Wilgy.

I'm gonna go ahead and [VOTE: Jack] aubergine, cause if I've been wrong all game (and so far, that holds up), it clears him. Then he can either lose the town the game and shoot me (which admittedly, with how we've played, is deserved), or shoot Wilgy or something. I don't know. It doesn't matter. I can do no right, so fuck all of you!

Fuck everything about this.

[Funnygurl555]

ok hyena I'll vote gman

[Funnygurl555]

but Jack is townier than him. I get it; we listen to you though

[Funnygurl555]

I no longer trust Gman. The amount of work he's now putting in has me worried he's trying to shore up getting people to vote for him and it's actually him and Wilgy.

I'm gonna go ahead and [VOTE: Jack] aubergine, cause if I've been wrong all game (and so far, that holds up), it clears him. Then he can either lose the town the game and shoot me (which admittedly, with how we've played, is deserved), or shoot Wilgy or something. I don't know. It doesn't matter. I can do no right, so fuck all of you!

lmfao

[Jackofhearts2005]

I no longer trust Gman. The amount of work he's now putting in has me worried he's trying to shore up getting people to vote for him and it's actually him and Wilgy.

I'm gonna go ahead and [VOTE: Jack] aubergine, cause if I've been wrong all game (and so far, that holds up), it clears him. Then he can either lose the town the game and shoot me (which admittedly, with how we've played, is deserved), or shoot Wilgy or something. I don't know. It doesn't matter. I can do no right, so fuck all of you!

Congrats. I’ve never been more confused in my life.

[Hyena]

but Jack is townier than him. I get it; we listen to you though

If we lose because of my choice, you can blame it all on me. <3 I'll even let you shoot me the next time we play a Turbo with ITAs together on MU.

[Hyena]

Okay, I wasn't going to say anything about THAT post that Boo just made, but I think I probably should. It feels like Boo is trying to set up an association between him and Jack in case he gets shot tonight. I don't think Boo believed that G-Man would actually get votes if he voted for him, probably for similar reasons. Either way, I'm going to let you make the final decision, G-Man, but I just figured I'd offer my input on THAT post in case it's helpful.