The Syndicate

Didn't mean to include the Jack-dunya exchange in that quote, either. Sorry if confusing.

dunya wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 8:23 am

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 9:19 pm But if that's true, and if he hasn't read large portions of the thread, why defend sig so freaking hard?

the sig drama was like, a very vocal, loud and disruptive phase of this game. if he had completely ignored it, i would have suspected him. chipping in when it was happening didn't strike me as odd. i also find it extremely unlikely nutella and speed as partners decide to defend sig.

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 9:19 pm Defends NANOOK, but again, without any thread-based reasoning,

how do you know it's without thread based reasoning?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 7:38 pm You’re confusing replacing in Jack with scumJack.

nah. i just have no reasons to town read u, and like i said before in this game, you only worry when i don't find a reason to call u town. it's not your fault, really. i can't just ignore all of tony and start fresh with you.

Re: dunya's Point #1: but it's the only thing he did for a full day or more. Like, sure, note that it's happening, have a take, great. But maybe do something else?

Re: Point #2: It's without thread-based reasoning because there is no thread-based reasoning in what he wrote....If you disagree with me on that, show me where he pointed to anything thread-based at all.

I don't understand dunya hard-defending Speed, pushing Jack, then basically giving up on it and voting for Speed. If Speed is bad, dunya is too.

Also, Speed and Jack's responses to the pushes against them have been essentially identical in my book. "Welp, I don't really have a take on the other guy, but better him than me amirite?" So although it's not a great look for either, I don't think it tips the scales one way or another. Jack is at least offering some other thoughts right now, which is a slightly better look for him.

In my post above, I meant I would not be shocked if Jack and Speed were both scum***, not town.

Slightly favorable look for Jack here. I know he had literally just subbed in, but I feel like if you're bad you're slightly less likely to misattribute a quote from a teammate. Obviously fakeable, but why?
Jack can you clarify what about this reads town? Also, has anyone engaged you on the below?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 4:01 pm Somebody talk to me about there being 4 single off wagon votes yesterday.

Again points out the TH townread. If Jack is bad, TH possible teammate? Also, town-reading G-Man without giving a whole lot of reason why. (Admittedly, gives more reason than nutella did, but "more reason" consists of sheeping dunya.)
Terrible look. Jack, when poked by Sloonei, says he hasn't read Speed and has heard his name thrown about, so why not him? How is that mindset even at all town-aligned? I get that he's catching up and no one wants ot die, but the way you avoid dying is by helping find baddies, making cases and such. Not by randomly deflecting. He does eventually get around to doing that, though, shading MP and Sloonei:
This is a better look - he's offering his own take. Still only responding to things happening immediately in the thread, which isn't as ideal as reading back, but is consistent with having just subbed in and defending yourself.
But then it's back to "anyone but me!" If MP is his top baddie read here, why list Speed first, especially if he has no read on him, as he says right in the post? This was pre-MP claim, but feels a little like Jack isn't sticking to his reads.


I read TSP after Jack, and I am now too tired to bother with quotes.

Things in his favor: Epi seemed convinced he was civ. Unfortunately we don't know why.
Things against him: most of his posts are either (1) rhymes or (2) saying that he was against the Mac and sig lynches. I also think this is a case of trying to build civ cred while skating by. Also, he had Epi in his scum GTH, but was happy to take full credit for the civ read Epi gave him:
Conclusion: I would not be shocked if both Speed and Jack were town. Would rather vote Speed, because the building-civ-cred thing is stronger there, but would vote either one of them over anyone else right now.

Speedchuck ISO:

His early posts are a lot like nutella's: lots of rhyming, not a lot of substance.
I thought this was interesting. Mac theorizing that Speed and G-Man are both bad and are burned out from their last game. Worth remembering that G-Man placed an influential vote on Mac D1, but I don't know if it was before or after this and don't know how I'd find out. Can someone help me on that?
Shading Sloon.
A pair of posts defending sig and calling that he's town. nutella actually did this as well, but it reminds me more of the nutella/G-Man thing, where they give a VERY staunch defense not really backed up by much. I'll spare you the quote, but ALL of Speed's D2 posts contain some sort of defending of sig, but again not giving much reason - it kinda seems to me like Speed knows sig is good, but isn't willing to put in the effort to actually make a thread-based case about it. Furthermore, aside from some very weak shade-throwing, he doesn't put any sort of attempt into building a counter-wagon. I view this as potentially trying to build civ cred without being committed.

I think this on my own actually convinces me Speed is bad. He's been around a LOT more than I realized this game, but has given us absolutely nothing except some weak town reads on people who turned out town, and light shade on Sloonei. No votes, no cases, no counterwagons, not even a single thread-based reason to defend one of the people he's defending.

You could say that Speed is an inactive just isn't that into the game - he didn't vote either day, and said himself that's not alignment-indicative. But if that's true, and if he hasn't read large portions of the thread, why defend sig so freaking hard?

I will throw in that is Speed is bad, I would feel a lot better about G-Man, since nutella:G-Man = Speedchuck:sig.
Defends NANOOK, but again, without any thread-based reasoning, just a weak feel. Potentially another attempt to build up civ cred.
This is pretty wishy-washy, but literally all I've seen Speed do is townread people this game with weak reasoning. This is a separate reason why is Speed is bad, I feel better about G-Man.
Same for Jack/TSP.


I think Speed is bad, and I think the other baddies are going to be people he either lightly shaded or didn't talk about at all. It seems like Spped's play this game has been entirely focused on town-reading people to look alright while skating by. I'm putting my vote there now until I ISO Jack.

[VOTE: Speed] aubergine

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 5:31 pm @dunya @Russtifinko have either of you guys received any items during the night phases?

I did not.

Jesus, there's a lot happening now. In addition to the nutella-ISO reasons for suspecting MP, I was just thinking to myself that early in the game there were super-believable reasons that he'd be out (general stress/busyness, champions, conflict in this game), but that I had expected him back by now. I also didn't like his reaction to Sloonei's poking. And then he claims his role explains that and is likely one of our most powerful powers left....I'm all topsy turvy now.

It looks like speed and TSP/Jack are the only other viable lynches right now? DDL, dunya, Sloon, and TH all came out of the ISO looking better to me. Despite DDL's point below, I still think G-Man looks bad in light of nutella, but he also has claimed.


In summary, I have 4 people who look good in relation to nutella and I want to give a chance to, 2 who look bad but have claimed, and 2 low posters. Yikes.

Does anyone think a baddie team with nutella, G-Man, and MP would be brazen enough to all buddy each other, and then role claim whenever they seemed in danger of being lynched? It would be an insanely bold strategy, but I'm wondering if in this particular setup it might be something a well-coordinated baddie team would go for. Then again, all 3 of them haven't posted as much as their normal meta, which would be a strike against a super active, involved baddie team.

In the meantime I'm gonna reread speed and TSP and see where I get on them.

Nutella ISO, as promised:

nutella's posts are basically non-game-related early on, and her posts through D1 are basically all rhymes. Here's the first one of any substance:
Says MP looks good, and shades NANOOK and TH. Not sure what to make of it yet, will revisit with more context
Not directly nutella-related, but I came back to this because after dunya voted nutella she eventually responded to it. This is a super good read by dunya, and the first thing that looks town from her to me (beyond "other people say she seems fine"). It doesn't completely change my mind, but it definitely helps. nutella wasn't taking any other heat for this at the time, so it would be some pretty inspired distancing if they were teammates.
Then, nutella mega-waffles on dunya, and Epi calls it out. I think this is less alignment-indicative than dunya's original call-out, but if they're both bad, I do think it would've taken some very involved BTSC to plan ahead of time.
Says she "needs someone to vote other than MP (after townreading MP earlier in the day, mind you). In hindsight, this should have been a MASSIVE red flag. Also defends dunya after the mega-waffle, which should've been another red flag.

nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 8:45 pm Wait Speed is in this game?
Wait Tony is in this game?

Which honestly, at this point in D1, fair. Not sure what to make of it.
Says she felt bad about Sloonei but is coming around, and shades Epi.
Calls Mac as civ, shades TH #2. Calls TH out for going after Mac, based on......I guess I'd call this gut if nutella had been civ. Somewhat good look for TH in my opinion.
Shades NANOOK #2, in the same way she shaded TH the second time. Based on...feelings? Certainly possible nutella went after 2 people the same way when one was on her team and one wasn't, so I wouldn't be willing to town confirm TH based off of it, but generally positive.
D1, calls that both Mac and sig are civ. Seems she didn't want to be caught lynching a civ so parked her vote elsewhere. This post reminded me to go back and look at the D1 results again since we now know both top candidates were civ. Baddies must've been salivating. I want to go back and see if anyone pushed for a sig lynch on N1 (besides NANOOK), and look at any late votes on sig. I think weakly justified singleton votes could be fruitful too - anyone doing what nutella did here.
Shades Tony for being quiet on D1. I'd say good look for him. She ended up voting him in a later post, too.
Posts this right after the D1 lynch result. Looks good for TH in hindsight. Right before the lynch, Sloonei called that nutella was bad and Mac's teammate, and mentioned nutella's weird read of Tony. This one seems more plausible to do as teammates than what dunya did further up, but I still think it looks mildly good.
For the most part, this GTH wasn't as enlightening as I had hoped. All the scum reads are people she had shaded already, and the town reads are everyone else. The MP read stood out to me, since on D1 she initially expressed suspicion of him and then backed off and started defending him from TH. I do think that has the look of possible distancing, so bad look for MP. In a later post, Sloonei thought it was crazy that nutella read him town and dunya read him scum. Sloonei, I don't have the history behind you 3, so mind elaborating on why that was so mind-blowing for you?
Takes the sig vote, which would be the easy call as a baddie. More relevant for this analysis, this is the first time nutella mentions G-Man in the game, outside of her GTH town read on him, which she never elaborated on. Claims not to understand the case on him.
In hindsight, another big red flag I missed. Said Sloonei had been productive, despite saying she didn't understand nor believe his case on G-Man.
Reiterating without adding anything tangible to G-Man's defense.
Weird, because nutella actually gave 5 scum reads in her GTH. Obviously just playing non-commital, which makes me think there's at least one baddie in her scum reads from N1. That would've been a good opportunity to lightly bus without actually building any kind of case that would put a teammate at risk. Also says "one of TH and DDL" is bad without expressing any kind of preference between the two. Given her previous shade of TH and her GTH reads, this actually makes me more confused about him. If I don't see any other posts by her mentioning him, I could see it being a bus. Would greatly appreciate others' input on that. I do think DDL's suspicion is a good look for him, because he was the first person after Sloonei to really be going at her. I have trouble seeing the angle where Sloonei and DDL coordinate to bus a teamie nutella with no other suspicion on her, in a game where D1 and D2 were handed to them.

Then she spends 5-6 posts defending G-Man from Sloonei. I won't quote them all here, but it ends with this:
This post is what convinces me firmly that Sloon is town. No way they bus this hard as teammates.
Defends NANOOK. This is the only one of her last 10-ish posts spent talking about anything but Sloonei and G-Man. I think this explains the NANOOK NK despite the heat he was taking for the sig mislynch. nutella may have seen it as a way to build civ cred, like when she parked her vote away from the major trains D1 and called both Mac and sig town. Calling her shots, so to speak.
Sounds defensive here, like she knew Sloonei wasn't going to let it go and was worried D3 would be bad for her.

tl;dr

In conclusion: nutella was bad.

But seriously, here's what I get out of it.

Sloonei looks super town, and I can't see a series of events that would lead me to vote for him in the next few days. I also think DDL comes out of it looking pretty solid, albeit to a slightly lesser extent. I also think the D1 interactions look good for TH and dunya. I wouldn't vote TH today, and although I'm not willing yet to completely drop my dunya suspicion, but I probably wouldn't vote her today either.

I think MP is a possible bussing candidate here, so not great for him, and it looks absolutely terrible for G-Man. nutella spent nearly 20% of her posts defending him but never added anything substantive to the discussion.

One further thing worth discussing/looking into: since we now know the D1 lynch was civ/civ, where do people think the baddie votes are? nutella parked hers on an-off wagon; do we think the others did the same to lie low?

I am now le tired and probably will not read until tomorrow.

Linki: wow people are reading the same stuff as me and reaching exactly opposite conclusions. G-Man claiming info has dunya and TH reading him lock town, the day after they both thought NANOOK looked bad for infodumping. Sloonei thinks the nutella ISO looks good for MP. And this is just as my opinion on all 3 of you went up by reading this. I am so confused now....

RIP NANOOK. But nice, we got one!!

I still think a nutella ISO is worthwhile for finding teammates - I'll be working on it throughout the evening. Good on Sloonei, dunya, and NANOOK for calling she was bad.

dunya wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 5:34 pm Sorry, it was my mom's bday yesterday and I was away near eod ans didn't change my vote to Sig (I knew Sig was the conclusive lynch anyway).

Sorry, are you saying you'd have voted sig here? Becuase you went pretty hard against his lynch train. Truly not trying to nitpick or antagonize here, just want to understand your thought process.

dunya wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 2:14 pm

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 2:06 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 1:32 pm if nanook is bad, he's good to lynch. if he's town, then everything he did was not a team-effort or actually inspired by scum hunting reasons but a personal vendetta which is anti-town and i have issues with that.

Can you see how this sounds a little bit like "sig is either bad and won't claim because he was caught, or not bad and not trying hard enough for me, therefore I am ok with lynching him either way"? You're making the argument you're going after NANOOK for.

i meant to say i don't think he's town. i was saying, if i'm looking at him as scum: he has to go. if i'm trying to look at him as town: but his behavior is antitown and i need to see town motive or i have issues.

i feel a bit better now after nanook cleared up the last post he made tbf. i'm more concerned with nutella atm and trying to figure out tony and speed.

Fair. I have ISOs of nutella and Sloonei on my list. I'll do nutella after work since she's posted less. Hopefully Sloonei this evening too, but it may be tomorrow.

dunya wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 1:32 pm if nanook is bad, he's good to lynch. if he's town, then everything he did was not a team-effort or actually inspired by scum hunting reasons but a personal vendetta which is anti-town and i have issues with that.

Can you see how this sounds a little bit like "sig is either bad and won't claim because he was caught, or not bad and not trying hard enough for me, therefore I am ok with lynching him either way"? You're making the argument you're going after NANOOK for.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 9:11 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 9:10 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 9:03 pm I guess sig being vanilla confuses that idea a little, since I'm not sure what kind of ability nanook would have in that scenario. hm

this method and ruins the game for townies. he made us waste a whole day thinking "we netted sig in the bag" because he had suspicions of him day 1, which is kinda selfish. if nanook is bad, i'll tip my hat. if he's town, i don't care how many scum he caught that way in the last game, that ruins the game for townies and is no fun.

I don't think that's what happened. Or at least, I never considered sig to be "in the bag." I viewed nanook's claim as a play to get sig talking. sig's response was to not talk. That is why I was on board with the lynch.

Same here. I want to be really careful in my language here, because it's clear that tensions are running high for a number of people in the thread. There are 2 separate things going on here: (1) people trying to relax and have a good time together during a pretty terrible time, and (2) people trying to win mafia. When I say this next part, I am talking only about the "trying to win a game of mafia" part of that. I am not trying to say that I think sig in any way is a bad person, was "playing the game wrong", or anything of that nature. Objective #1, the "having a good time" part of this, is by far the most important part, which is why JJJ put it as his #1 rule for the entire game.



Again, speaking purely from a game-solving perspective. Yes, NANOOK claimed he had a red read on sig. That obviously sucks for sig, but in a game of mafia, there are ways to argue the point, especially since NANOOK himself admitted the read could be wrong. One could OMGUS NANOOK, one could argue that although the read looks bad, their thread contributions so far should outweigh it, etc. Sig did not choose to do any of those things. Instead he expressed frustration with the rules of the game, and then essentially left the thread. We know now that he did that for the very understandable and perfectly acceptable reason tnat he was not having fun in the game, but we didn't know that at the time. If you're a mafia, the entiretyof this game is literally to deceive people into thinking you are on their team when you aren't, and emotion is one possible tool to do that. Combine that with the fact that tone is very hard to convey over text, and I think it is completely understandable for someone to conclude (again, as we now know, falsely) that sig was upset because he was a caught baddie.

I do get that people have an issue with how NANOOK played it from the standpoint of Objective #1, but that's not what I'm addressing here. Purely in terms of objective #2, do people think it's really reasonable to believe that NANOOK and DDL, as two baddies, made up a fake read on D2 to ensure a single civ lynch, revealing themselves in the process? I just don't see how any baddie team in the history of the game would look at that and say "Oh yeah, great play. Let's do that."
This is a totally reasonable point, relating to Objective #1.
This to me reads like someone who is upset about how sig was treated in terms of Objective #1 extending that read to assume it has meaning for Objective #2. Saying NANOOK "had shit all on sig" and was "fake claiming" is a little misleading, at best. NANOOK was pretty up front about the read not being bulletproof.

If you're upset about the way sig was treated this game, that's a fair point to make. There are also fair points to make that sig treated MP badly, and beyond that, arguments to make that MP broke the rules by talking about another ongoing game in this game. Everything about that is a shitty situation, and we collectively, as a thread need to do better. I would argue that's more important than actually trying to win the game. But presumably juliets and JJJ are handling it, and there isn't much we can do about what's already been said, at least until the game is over.

However, you seem to have decided NANOOK made it all up - I think that's virtually impossible. Could you explain to me what the angle is where you see it make sense for a baddie NANOOK to do that? If not, again, from ONLY the perspective of Objective #2, this looks to me like going after an easy target.

dunya wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 9:05 pm

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 6:36 pm Linki: TH, argue with DDL all you want about how to play the game. You guys are fighting and I get that. But is it really unreasonable for me (or anyone for that matter) to ask you to make some contribution, whatever it may be, no matter how small, to trying to find baddies? Correct me if I'm wrong, but is that not what you signed up for?

wow this is very discouraging. TH is one of my strongest town reads. everyone from day 1 has been shitting on how they are playing by claiming they aren't doing enough. stop putting them down with the sarcasm and condesending tone. this is how some people play, they don't have to play the way you expect them to, they don't have to post newspaper texts and huge cases for you all, and if you can't make out the tons of contributions and reads they've been pulling out since day 1, then that's on you, cos i see them loud and clear.

In general, I don't agree with dunya's self-appointed role as the thread's Nice Police, and i think dunya has been at least as rude/dismissive/condescending to some of the people she is calling out as they have been to others. However....she is 100% right to hit me for this post from an Objective #1 perspective. TH, I owe you an apology. I intended my post to pressure you purely from an Objective #2 perspective into broadening what you were looking at, seeing whether I could assess how open-minded you were willing to me. I completely overstepped, and phrased it as if I thought you weren't playing the game right. I messed up. I want you to know that one of the reasons I'm so excited for this game was to play with amazing people again, and you are absolutely one of those. I am sorry I made you feel not valued and brought down your enjoyment of the game.

That said, if you're willing, I'd like to have a dialogue about NANOOK and DDL. Yes, I believe that from an Objective 1 perspective, NANOOK was kind of a jerk in the way he treated sig. I get that you're both upset about that, and TH, I additionally get why you'd be upset with me as well. From an Objective 2 perspective, though, I've explained why I think a baddie NANOOK and DDL teaming up to force a civ mislynch based on a fake claim on D2 seems improbable. Do either of you see a possibility that NANOOK actually had a red read but it wasn't correct? Do you think it's possible DDL's explanation of NANOOK's power was right? And if so, who do you think could be a baddie in that case?

If you don't want to talk about it, I will not come back at you and say you're playing the game wrong or anything like that. But, from a purely objective 2 perspective, if you're not willing to engage me on this, it would make me think you're bad, because we seem to have arrived at opposite conclusions on what NANOOK's infodump could mean, and because I think NANOOK is the easiest D3 mislynch and gives baddies an easy out if they go after him. Similar to how NANOOK blamed sig for his reaction yesterday, I think it's easy for a baddie to push for NANOOK to die tomorrow, then say "welp, if he didn't wanna die he shouldn't have fake claimed" and get out of responsibility for it.

I do agree that NANOOK was after sig on D0 and faked a red claim on him to get him lynched based on that D0 hunch, since people are saying NANOOK has done that before. However, if that is the case, it still means not lynching NANOOK is the right play.

I will be ISOing Sloonei and nutella as promised, but not today. I am tired from working and doing my first ISO.

Also, I forgot to post my conclusion on G-Man: based on the sig flip, most of my bad feelings about him disappear. I think the last post he made, early in D2, is pingy, as is the fact that he did nothing else all day. Other than that there's basically nothing to go on, though, so I'd give him a mild bad read, but probably not one I'd want to pursue D3.

Linki: TH, argue with DDL all you want about how to play the game. You guys are fighting and I get that. But is it really unreasonable for me (or anyone for that matter) to ask you to make some contribution, whatever it may be, no matter how small, to trying to find baddies? Correct me if I'm wrong, but is that not what you signed up for?

Alright, re-reading G-Man first since Sloonei has been posting a lot today and I don't feel like all that.

Doing this with fresh eyes, and trying to think through the context at the time as well.
First two non-rhyme posts of the day. I don't like that they come 3 hours before the end of D1, but I do like that they contain a lot of opinions on other players. The change on Mac is notable: it goes from "presumptuous but not unlike Mac" to "low-hanging fruit".

Also worth noting is I'm one of his top town reads. This makes me feel worse than before: it's possible his read on me was influencing the positive gut feels I had on him prior to the lynch result.
Switches to sig 15min later, 20min before EOD. Looks like possible distancing. Similar to Mac, goes from a slight negative ping to a vote pretty quickly.
Switches back, and apparently not for game-related reasons. Places the most influential vote aside from Epi.
This post doesn't help in my assessment of G-Man particularly, but it made me realize how hard NANOOK was after sig even D1, which I somehow had missed. I guess that makes sense given that he targeted sig N1, but he didn't really give a reason at the time. NANOOK, given that your early posts are all rhymes, would you give me a hand and let me know the root of your sig suspicion?
Asks sig these questions, but never really follows up on them. G-Man, were you asking these questions to assess sig, or to form more general opinions on thread activity?
Does eventually post GTH reads. Others have said they don't like that he was initially game for this but then held off. I do get that changing his mind doesn't look amazing and that holding off goes against the point of GTH, but I agree with the logic of not giving the baddies an easy civ kill, and to me the fact that he posted them is something of a mitigating factor.

G-Man wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 2:21 pm Piling onto sig feels lame so early in the phase.

[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

Sprinkled throughout his posts is quite a bit of pondering how baddies might strategically approach this game. More than once did I think he was more concerned with that than analyzing the game happening right in front of him. I will have to go back and look for specific examples.

Would you, could you, fuel the fire
Of dear old Sloonei’s funeral pyre?
ISO him for yourself and see
If you might, perchance, agree with me.

This is his only post on D2 (other than the GTH, which it sounds like he intended to post at the end of N1). He says Sloonei looks bad for figuring out how baddies would play, says he's going to look for examples, and never comes back with any examples. He also doesn't really push for others to vote for Sloonei or not vote for sig, despite saying the sig train is lame. His rhyme basically asks people to build a case on Sloonei for him, which he has to know people won't do, especially since he hasn't really given them anything to go on here. Independent of the D1 results, this is the only thing that truly influences my read of G-Man one way or another, and I don't think it's a good look. Of course, I haven't done my Sloonei ISO yet, and it's possible there's something there, but even if that's the case, this way of pointing to it seems at best lukewarm.


Lots of linki: RIP sig. It double-sucks that we boht mislynched you and ruined the game for you so bad you didn't defend.

So NANOOK's read was at best unreliable as he himself admitted, or at worst a lie. NANOOK, if you could answer my question above about why you were originally onto sig, I think that would help me determine which I think it is.

DDL, to clarify, you're saying that since sig flipped civ, you think TH was setting you up for a D3 lynch in his posts above? DDL and TH, are you each other's biggest suspects right now? TH, you said you were "the one person driving discussion (besides Sloonei)" today. Can you point me to where exactly you tried to rally people around something else, as opposed to saying not to lynch sig and to doubt NANOOK?

Double extra bonus linki: Yay for polls being posted! And TH, I would also appreciate if you could post any non-sig, NANOOK, or DDL reads.

Triple linki: of course now I can't post.....what happened to thread being slow?

nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 5:29 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 5:27 pm Eh guys the day locks in 30 minutes this low activity is officially scaring me now.

Yeah was just thinking this. I've been occupied with both spectating champs and some actual work stuff so I haven't been giving this game much attention but the dead air is making me anxious about sig.

Same. I joined this game largely because I figured it'd be manageable with the post count limits, but I expected more activity than this.

dunya wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 2:23 pmwhat do you think of nutella's d1 vote?

I had been more focused on sig, Epi, and G-Man as the most likely baddies after Mac's flip, and nutella is one of the people who's left the least impression on me this game. I'll give her an ISO in addition to G-Man and Sloonei.

dunya wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 2:47 pm yes, as i said in my multiquote post (yay), his reaction of silence is one i scum lean on at this point.

i had a big town-lean on him before this stuff with nanook tbh but maybe for unethical, angle-shooting reasons.

Would you mind elaborating here on "unethical, angle-shooting reasons"?

Linki: DDL, given that you prefer not to lynch sig today: if you were King of the Thread today and could direct people to lynch anyone you wanted, who would you choose and why?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 10:04 pm

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 8:24 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 3:41 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 3:30 pm I don't remember which game it was, but I think there was an instance where town Sig lost a game on purpose to make a point about being against claiming. Or maybe it was someone else (this happens a lot in the other forum I play in). Correct me if I'm wrong.

If this is true it makes me paranoid, though. There is a good chance nanook is telling the truth but his info isn't really conclusive, and Sig is gonna self destruct to make a point anyway.

Notably Nanook also faked a red peek in a recent game (the baseball one), though that person happened to be indeed mafia But from what he's said here I believe he's not lying this time and he is admitting that his info might not be 100% reliable. But yeah you make a point that goes against Nanook's plan to policy-lynch sig for refusing to claim.

I've been known to take pretty hard-line stances against claiming and infodumping, too. But it's in the rules for this game, so to the extent it helps us, we might as well. We're at a disadvantage to begin with because of post count restrictions, so we should use every (legal) advantage we have.

I wouldn't call it a policy lynch, though. Even with NANOOK's admittedly not-certain infodump, I probably wouldn't vote sig today if that was the only thing against him. There's also yesterday's lynch vote, which looked like a save to me, and his reaction to this read, which has been to stubbornly not claim and then make a bunch of false statements.

G-Man, I'm gonna ISO both you and Sloonei, with as open a mind as possible, but I probably won't get around to it until tomorrow at least. He pinged me very early on, and you're now one of my top suspects. I do think it's a good look that he put so much detail into that ISO before anyone followed your advice to ISO him. I never think an OMGUS is super inspiring, but I'm probably giving a little more leeway on this one than I usually would since I do think D1 points to you being bad.

nutella thanks for the help with "@"! That was driving me insane.

You should have a good reason not to suspect me, but I am unclear who you are saying is OMGUSing here?

As far as I saw, G-Man came at you first, so that would make you the OMGUSer. However, as I said, I think G-Man is bad, so take that with a big grain of salt.

Also, I am notoriously bad at hints. What's the reason not to suspect you? (If I'm likely to come across it when I ISO you then you don't have to bother right now though.)

nutella wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 3:41 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 3:30 pm I don't remember which game it was, but I think there was an instance where town Sig lost a game on purpose to make a point about being against claiming. Or maybe it was someone else (this happens a lot in the other forum I play in). Correct me if I'm wrong.

If this is true it makes me paranoid, though. There is a good chance nanook is telling the truth but his info isn't really conclusive, and Sig is gonna self destruct to make a point anyway.

Notably Nanook also faked a red peek in a recent game (the baseball one), though that person happened to be indeed mafia But from what he's said here I believe he's not lying this time and he is admitting that his info might not be 100% reliable. But yeah you make a point that goes against Nanook's plan to policy-lynch sig for refusing to claim.

I've been known to take pretty hard-line stances against claiming and infodumping, too. But it's in the rules for this game, so to the extent it helps us, we might as well. We're at a disadvantage to begin with because of post count restrictions, so we should use every (legal) advantage we have.

I wouldn't call it a policy lynch, though. Even with NANOOK's admittedly not-certain infodump, I probably wouldn't vote sig today if that was the only thing against him. There's also yesterday's lynch vote, which looked like a save to me, and his reaction to this read, which has been to stubbornly not claim and then make a bunch of false statements.

G-Man, I'm gonna ISO both you and Sloonei, with as open a mind as possible, but I probably won't get around to it until tomorrow at least. He pinged me very early on, and you're now one of my top suspects. I do think it's a good look that he put so much detail into that ISO before anyone followed your advice to ISO him. I never think an OMGUS is super inspiring, but I'm probably giving a little more leeway on this one than I usually would since I do think D1 points to you being bad.

nutella thanks for the help with "@"! That was driving me insane.

[VOTE: Sig] aubergine

Oh, I forgot to point out that speedchuck spents 3 posts in a row above to basically waffle on and then soft defend sig. Not a good look IMO.

Hey the aubergine thing isn't as hard as I thought. Isn't it more of a teal, though?

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 7:07 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 6:14 pm Vompatti is what we'd call a dadaist mafia player.

There is no obvious meaning to his posts. No direction or inherent logic.

You don't understand Vompatti, you experience Vompatti.

Nanook is fucking JaggedJimmyJay compared to Vompatti.

And yeah, this is Vompatti.

@Russtifinko, I wouldn't say he plays like Vompatti, but he does have a... Chaotic Neutral type of D&D alignment in terms of mafia play.

Vompatti is more like Chaotic Evil.

Thanks, this is helpful. This response in itself would make me feel worse about the intense rhyming, but given NANOOK's tone change today, I'm feeling better about him anyway. He's up from on-the-fence to at least mild civ for me.

Please don't @ me anymore - it does this weird thing where if I quote the post, my computer wants to autofill Russtifinko and delete part of my post if I hit the enter key, and I can't make it go away.

sig wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 12:45 pm Claiming is such a lame way to play. Especially when nanook isnt even claiming. Double that with claiming anything this early isn't sound strategy and since I didn't target anyone last night there couldn't have even been watching/tracking confusion.

It's a fake peek which nanook always says he wants to/has done.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 8:11 am

sig wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 9:48 pm SO a combination of factors effected my mafia read of MP.

Last game, which just ended with a mafia victory, the team included MP who had flipped civ, but was actually mafia. He reacted the same way there when I poked him as he did here and said I just hound him for no reason. I'm seeing the same game-play here and have the same gut feel.

Which is the main reason why I'm sticking to my guns here with my MP read.

Mac, rip was wrong there, not the end of the world. I do plan to reread some things, but overall alot of people are still just leans.

You do realize MP replaced someone else in that game and the one you poked was town, right?

You never interacted with scum MP that game.

Maybe check back on that game? Since he was mafia.

I do get why people are saying sig going after MP the way he has seems beyond the bounds of what a mafia would do, but this defense post just seems scummy af to me. He says claiming is lame, which, of course mafia would think that, and literally the #1 rule is that roleclaiming and infodumping are legal. If you didn't like that, you wouldn't have signed up for this game, so to complain about it now seems not genuine.

Minor thing here, but "not the end of the world" isn't the best reaction to a civ lynch I've seen, even if it is D1.

Sig also claims that NANOOK always says he wants to/has done a fake peek, which, what? A civ would never do that, and it would be a ballsy move for a baddie considering we can't be anywhere near LYLO yet. Also, he's saying DDL and MP are both lying about this other game. So sig, correct me if I'm wrong here, but you're saying that 1) you're not bad and also 2) NANOOK, DDL, and MP are all bad, and are all basically revealing themselves by lying to set you up for a mislynch on D2??? If I'm misunderstanding you there, and you see a way that civ NANOOK, DDL, or MP do that, let me know, but I just don't buy it. No way a baddie team gives up 3 members for one civ lynch on D2, especially if, as you say, you have no power.

Finally, where the claim comes from does seem pretty straightforward given DDL's point about jiggies, and another Page 1 rule says we can't share how we get bonus jiggies. So sig seems to be intentionally failing to understand that.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 9:51 am Doesn't Sig's treatment of MP make anyone else think sig is town because of it? Like why, as a scum accusing someone he would have to KNOW is town, would sig go after a guy using false logic about a different game and also run the risk of making it so heated and emotional and personal for both parties? Sig believes what he's saying or else he just simply wouldn't have bothered (as scum).

Nanook's red peek on sig, therefore and for other nanook-seems-sketchy related reasons, looks fake to me. Especially how he chose to present it with such a soft push. Using terms like "pretty likely" to be a red check gives him some breathing room if it turns out he's wrong.

TL;DR Sig's push on MP looks genuine. Nanook's push on sig looks fake.

If sig is indeed bad, TH is my top pick for a teammate. BTW, dunya was right about this:

dunya wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 11:26 am alright cool, we'll all lynch sig end of day. now can we play mafia cos im sure sig has teammates.

, since today seems relatively open-and-shut.

I would also peg G-man as a potential teamie, based pretty much solely on his D1 vote. My gut gives me some hesitation on that one, though, as does the fact that Epi was NK'ed: anyone else think it was really weird choice, given that Epi could've been expected to take a lot of heat for his D1 vote? He also had been attracting some attention D1 (on purpose, as we now know).

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 3:56 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 5:50 pm macdougall being saved. unimpressed, but will double down next phase.

linki: epi making it a tie! :o

Top 10 worst aging posts of 2020

This makes me think that if dunya is bad, sig likely is too and this was an attempt to save a teammate as sig was overtaking Mac. (At least I think that's how it worked, but apparently polls aren't being saved in this game. Can someone either point me to it or confirm?) However, it actually makes me feel slightly better about dunya. Calling this seems weird when there was a decent chance (at the time) she'd be proven wrong. I'd still lean scum on her, but less so, and now leaning scum on sig, particularly if I'm right on dunya.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 12:01 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 10:51 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 7:02 am I think it’s Epi, Sloonei, and Turnip.

i agree on sloonei now, and probably nutella. i don't know why epi voted for mac, maybe he did and i didn't see why. i'll check. but his switch from sig to mac put them tied, which is ok in my books. and it was gman who tipped the scale then sloonei came on board at some point.

Epi said he wouldn't vote for Mac, took a simple answer from Sig to get off Sig, voted for Mac (I think) without comment. It's not a complicated case, but I'm willing to run with it.
There are one or two points in Epi's favor.

As far as Sloonei goes, I have no way to judge how he's playing. He's based his play on a strategic element I disagree with the philosophy on. I think he's presenting it as a preemptive defense, but it's unclear.

The case on Epi as presented here doesn't look great. I also don't really love that dunya just says "i don't know why epi voted for mac, maybe he did and i didn't see why. i'll check. but his switch from sig to mac put them tied, which is ok in my books." It sounds to me like saying yes, there's a case on Epi, but then ignoring it because reasons.

I had a strong town gut reading on Epi before, and I think it's too optimistic to think that everyone who voted Mac was saving sig - no baddie team would give themselves all away like that so early. Maybe that's WIFOM, but oh well. So I'd say coming out of the vote, G-Man actually looks the worst to me. His vote was the one that put Mac ahead. I'd follow that with dunya, then Epi. All of that is predicated on sig being bad, though, and other than the lynch results I haven't seen anything on him that felt particularly alignment-indicative.

Here's my GTH:

Dragon D. Luffy: town
dunya: scum
Epignosis: town
G-Man: scum
M Plus 7: town
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME: town
nutella: town
Russtifinko: town
sig: scum
Sloonei: town
speedchuck: town
TonyStarkPrime: town
Turnip Head: scum

NANOOK was the hardest one here for me. Can anyone tell me if he plays a Vompatti style? It seems like it so far. I get the same sort of....lack of concern? if that's the right term, from TH, but really didn't like TH's posts about sheeping, which is why he ended up on the scum side.

Linki: RIP Epi. That NK makes me feel better about TSP - it doesn't make a lot of sense for a baddie to start casebuilding on a guy they're planning to NK.

dunya wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 5:24 pm

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 3:49 pm I don't like this post, or TH's response to Mac in general. Sheeping reads to see where they lead doesn't make a great deal of sense to me, since, if someone else already has the read, in theory we'll get to see where it leads without sheeping, and it takes away responsibility from someone to make their own unique reads. Many a baddie has said "I agree with Y - we ought to lynch X to get more info. Oh, didn't work out? It was Y's idea! Get them!"

To me, unvotes are also generally a scummy look, especially if other votes have come on to the votee between the vote and unvote. It's a good way to start a lynch train without being held responsible for it.

wow. i think we come from different mafia cultures for sure. first of all, if you look at TH's posts as they were made, you'll see that he hasn't been sheeping. i talked about this with mac. if we're not allowed to suspect anyone that someone has suspected before us at one point in this game, then we're in trouble, no? i don't think anyone shifts accountability, especially when TH has provided rationale when voting (maybe apart from his MP vote, which he unvoted). and unvotes are part of mafia for me, i don't know how that's scummy.

By TH's own admission he was sheeping, so you saying he wasn't here is....weird. I'm not even sure what it would indicate, so guess I just have to agree with you that our brains work VERY differently.

---------------------------------------

RIP Mac. Had been looking forward to a game with you after all this time, wish we could've been in it together longer.

I don't love that a lot of votes came on to Mac late in the phase. I'm pretty sure it's well-known that he's Australian and thus would be asleep, but more importantly, it was known that he was out of posts. Makes him an easy target for that sort of thing, and makes me instantly suspicious of those who jumped on late and/or to save sig, who also looks worse to me as a result.

Was G-Man the biggest catalyst? He's currently vote #4, which would've put Mac ahead, but I couldn't track how the votes went down in real time.

On a separate note, I think we should NOT publicly acknowledge when people are out of posts in the future. If there are gonna be more people like Mac who are easy lynch targets late in the day, we should at least make the baddies figure it out for themselves instead of putting targets on people's back for them.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 3:23 pm ++++

Russtifinko:

Glad to see the gentle giant. How are things? How is your wife?

Russ had the same thought I did about post counts. That likely means he would have had to continue to fake that interpretation if he were bad (I would assume this would have been discussed in BTSC if he genuinely didn't understand and was bad). At times Russ sounds like a politician, but I can overlook that for now. Would scrutinize more later.

I would not lynch Russtifinko today.

++++

Hey Epi! Good to be back! The wife is doing fine. We got a new nephew today!! Our first one. So that's been very exciting. Other than that, just bored with the lockdown, but things could be worse. How's your lovely family?

Also thanks for the thoughts re: dunya. That's the first positive thing I've heard on her that's anything more than gut, I'll try to take it into consideration.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 3:33 pm My time is running low I see
I don’t have much time though to rea-
d the things that have been said of me
why are we all voting for Mackie?

TSP, from what I can understand, it seems like people are voting Mac for posting rainbow reads. I sort of fail to understand it, since when I last played here those were super popular, and others have done those in this game and not been punished for it in the same way. As I see it, they establish accountability and give people an easy record to go back to for sussing out baddies.

I probably am not the best person to explain the case since I'm so confused by it, but there ya go. I think we have better things to go on for today.

dunya wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 2:34 pm @Russtifinko russti, i'm gonna peg this down to: you don't know my play style and i don't know yours. me town reading a lot of people is very normal. if you'd like to check my town game, have a look and see for yourself. saying "ok cool mps on my team" is a fun way of saying MP is a town read. i don't have to always add adjectives before town to indicate the level of towniness. i saw town mp and mentioned it. that's the bottom of it. i don't care if you're voting for me for this reason, and this is the last i'll talk about it. you're free to review my past town games for comparison to see how i do this in like, every game i've ever played in.

also unfortunately end of day is 11pm my time and i'm unavailable from 9pm until like 10.45. go figure the first time ever i have a reasonable end of day it sucks for me. i'm still around for 15 minutes, but feel pretty good about my mcdougall vote tbh. nothing he said inspired confidence in me he was town, felt like the hole he was digging got bigger and bigger.

dunya, totally agree we could be misunderstanding each other. But IMO, you OMGUSing me and then when I came back at you immediately dropping the OMGUS and writing about the person with the most votes is pingy as all hell. My issue isn't that you're town reading people, it's that you cozied up to MP after townreading him. As I said, my memory of his meta is that he's a little susceptible to that, at least early (no offense MP). He's also usually a forceful town voice, so if I were a baddie, I'd damn sure want to be his friend. So this is very specifically aboutt he interaction between the two of you, and then your reaction to me pointing it out, rather than some problem with your approach to the game of mafia.

I'll try to keep an open mind about this, especially since 4-5 people seem to feel good about you, but I think at every stage your reaction has looked worse and worse to me. I would love others to weigh in on if they see her moves the same way I do or what (beyond 'gut') makes anyone think she's not a good candidate.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 2:38 pm

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 2:17 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 11:50 am Get on board with me dougall. If you're town you know we can work together. I am 100% here for that. If you're bad you'll want to keep me hamstrung.

Wait....so if Mac doesn't agree with you, he's bad, and not just misunderstanding you? Can you explain how that works, especially since you said you're easily misunderstood?

I would say you've misunderstood my intent here Russti. I'm telling Mac that if he's town I'm here to solve the game together. Surely he can see the merit in that plan.

Ok, fair enough. Your other posts ping me though:

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 11:32 am It's establishing pressure Mr. Dougall. So what if I sheeped reads? I wanted to see where they led. I still maintain my own opinions as evidenced by my unvotes.

You're entrenching your read of me by characterizing my play in the way you are. I think your other reads look like a scummer's reads; I think your suspicion of me in particular is opportunistic.

I don't like this post, or TH's response to Mac in general. Sheeping reads to see where they lead doesn't make a great deal of sense to me, since, if someone else already has the read, in theory we'll get to see where it leads without sheeping, and it takes away responsibility from someone to make their own unique reads. Many a baddie has said "I agree with Y - we ought to lynch X to get more info. Oh, didn't work out? It was Y's idea! Get them!"

To me, unvotes are also generally a scummy look, especially if other votes have come on to the votee between the vote and unvote. It's a good way to start a lynch train without being held responsible for it.

Lack of accountability is the primary tool baddies use to get out of being lynched the longer a game goes. The more i read this, the more it sounds like TH is explaining baddie moves but saying they're civ moves.

TH is now my #2 suspect, and I would change my vote to him if it will matter in the final poll. I still prefer dunya though.

nutella wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 2:58 pm (17)

smh @ mac recklessly hitting his post cap. RIP. He's town.

I'm not inspired by TH's responses to Mac. I get that TH has been "misunderstood" as a townie before but I don't get nearly the same sense from them this game that I often do. Their reads feel much more.. idk, manufactured somehow. maybe I'm just not following their godlike intuitive thought processes, but I feel so strongly that they're wrong about Mac that I'm not inclined to believe it's a real read.

I feel the opposite: to me that's pingy. Especially considering he seems to be a candidate for lynch today and a lot of his recent posts were short. I was reading Mac's scumhunting efforts today as sincere and don't understand why he's seemingly being punished for posting comprehensive reads - I thought that was what we're supposed to be doing?? So I still wouldn't lynch him over this D1, but it's worth keeping in mind for the future assuming he survives.

To further clarify on dunya, this is similar to the dunya/Epi thing earlier. I didn't mean to imply Epi was being pedantic myself. I was operating from within dunya's assertion that he was. Holding it true that Epi was being pedantic, I was supplying an explanation for it that wasn't alignment-indicative. I also am not saying I have MP towncleared, but I am addressing dunya's behavior using her own standpoint that he is. Again holding that true, dunya's actions look very bad to me.

Also, big ups to JJJ for clearing up the post count thing.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 11:50 am Get on board with me dougall. If you're town you know we can work together. I am 100% here for that. If you're bad you'll want to keep me hamstrung.

Wait....so if Mac doesn't agree with you, he's bad, and not just misunderstanding you? Can you explain how that works, especially since you said you're easily misunderstood?

dunya wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 9:31 am

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 6:53 pm Speaking of wasting posts, dunya just posted 5 times in a row - maybe combine those all into one?

so? they were all relevant as they came up. and combining posts on my phone is not possible, i can only do it on my laptop. and i'm not worried about post count, there's lots of townies here and no one wants to be washed out by someone who makes newspaper posts every time they post. even 1 good to-the-point post is worth a lot more than ramblings and echos that everyone has already discussed or said. this game gives a chance for everyone to do their part and chip in and be heard so don't expect newspapers more than once a day.

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 6:53 pmTo state this even more strongly - dunya's 5th post of the game started with "oh cool, town mp is on my team. that's a relief." I have a slight town read on MP right now, but it's D1 and you're willing to 100% clear him? I remember MP's meta being that he's slightly more likely to read people as town if they read him as town, and given that he was already gettign some cred from Sloonei eariler, it seems like dunya may be trying to get in his good graces here. Dunya, maybe explain a little better why you think MP is bona fide 100% civvie?

who said i 100% towncleared him? who said i can't pass out town reads and take them away when they prove to be wrong? who said this? who makes those rules? this is how i play. my strategy is forming as many town reads as i can. it's the most effective way to hunt for scum, because paranoia makes everyone look scummy, even genuine townies. when i can't find town in someone, then you worry.

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 6:53 pm dunya, can you clarify more why you "hate" Epi's interpretation of the D0-D1 post count rules? It sounds like a vast proportion of the players misunderstood them, and when he realized he had, he immediately backed off and said it blew up his case.

because his case used things like "MP complaining about counting votes, but he's an accounting professor, so fake!" -- that's so incredibly silly and i felt like it was a built-up strawman case with points added just to amplify the number of words on the case.

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 6:53 pmI could see this being more of "attack anyone who attacks MP to get in his good graces" like what I mentioned above.

why do i care in the least to be in MP's good graces? is that what you're doing with your very wishy washy "why is dunya giving MP towncred" but adding a quick disclaimer that "he's town for me too!" lol. hypocricy much? who cares if i say slight, much, a little before i say town?

if anything your posts about MP and me reeks of tmi as though you know for certain MP is town and trying to spin the narrative that i'm trying to pocket him. very bad look for you.

OMGUS much?

Obviously the angle I see where you're bad is predicated on MP being good - but you're the one saying you're absolutely certain beyond any shred of doubt that MP is town (see bolded above). No one held a gun to your head and made you say that. If you somewhere said (before this post) that it was possible you're wrong on him, your opinion could change, etc, then please point me to it because I missed it. What I see is this:

1) You say MP is 100% cleared town, for no reason I can discern.
2) You start buddying MP.
3) You OMGUS me when I call you on it.

I'm voting Dunya. I know a couple people are townreading her on gut, but no one's given a better explanation than that, so I don't currently see any points in her favor. (idk how this aubergine thing works)

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 7:13 pm

Spoiler: show

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 5:19 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:05 pm

Post count ceilings for Day 1:

26 - Dragon D. Luffy
28 - dunya
34 - Epignosis
26 - G-Man
29 - M Plus 7
28 - MacDougall
30 - NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
30 - nutella
29 - Russtifinko
28 - sig
31 - Sloonei
26 - speedchuck
29 - TonyStarkPrime
28 - Turnip Head

Jiggy pursuits are now underway, and your 4-liners actually count.

I believe it is that I have greatly misunderstood the nature of Day 0. I was under the impression that Day 0 gave us 25 posts and that Day 1 gave us 25 new posts. Doing the math here implies that wasn't the case. Mac's accusation against me (that I'm burning through posts when I only made two Day 1 posts) implies that he was under (what I assume to be) the correct interpretation.

I would think that someone would be kind enough to use one of his or her posts to inform me of my faulty thinking vis-à-vis my accusation of M Plus 7. This correction never came from anybody (TH and nutella even joined me). However. maybe it also is that others were making the same incorrect assumption.

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 8:51 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:22 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:02 pm 1.

sig wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:59 pm

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:46 pm Hey all, just checking in for now. Preoccupied with other items for the duration. Looking forward to playing this despite this post count limitation putting me in shackles.

Refusing to rhyme is kinda scummy
Also anyone who over rhymes/someone in first 3 is def mafia trying to be blendy.

Also fuck rhyming the whole reason i signed up for this game is since I don't wanna post why should I rhyme and be forced to post more.

Let us begin with a vote for sig
Whose entrance was just too big
He huffed and he puffed and made a scene
But he just looks the opposite of green

sig wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:02 pm Super excited to play with some of the oldies again!
Currently drinking wine and cleaning so not 100% here ergo ignore about half of the grammar and spelling mistakes the other half I'd make even not tipsy.


Also let's not lynch sig day one in this game okay gang? Okay


Also also I'm packing/moving for job, finishing out school and dealing with army junk so activity may be weird for a bit.

“Let’s not lynch sig day 1” looks like anxiety being masked as banter.

Lynch Sloonei after MP. This sucks.

1.
I agree about this being a bad look for Sloonei. Yeah, sig expressed conflicting views about rhyming. But to me that post, taken as a whole, reads as something a civ throws out because they aren't overly concerned with looking good. Mafia are the ones who try super hard to avoid contradictions in their posts, and that seems like it would've been super easy to avoid here.

Also, "let's not lynch sig day 1" is almost definitely anxiety masked as banter - no one likes dying D1. I don't see how it's alignment-indicative. Sloonei maybe you can explain that one?

Actually, as I reread Sloonei it looks worse and worse to me. As Tony pointed out, he started the lynch train on sig, then switch his vote to Tony because he didn't like all the votes on sig.....what???


-Other Thoughts-
Gonna disagree with Mac - I think Epi is genuinely scumhunting in his big D1 post about MP and Sloonei, and I don't really care about someone "burning through" their D0 posts.

On the other hand, although NANOOK's rhymes are probably the dopest so far, he's burning through D1 posts, which IMO is a different matter than the D0 ones. I also hate the vote on sig - I think it was bandwagony and poorly justified.

MP did the same thing as sig with the ambivalent response to post count limits, and I also don't think that is a big deal - knowing MP, he is probably really excited to be playing this but massively busy, so I bet he vascillates between wanting infinite posts and not having time to read infinite posts. I think the Omerta thing is really the only decent point in Epi's case against MP, but Epi says: "But that isn't important."

The enlarged either means that Russ is believing the same thing I was regarding Day 0, or he's being willfully ignorant here. I lean the former.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 8:56 am You’re talking wack, son
I’ve got like 20+ posts left
I’m barely a quarter done
I won’t leave you missing me and bereft

My vote is the best one
And I don’t wanna hear no beef
Pretending my reads are good is fun
So stop fighting it and hop on my scum killing leaf


(8)

The same thing applies here. At this point, Nanook had eight posts, which would mean "20+ posts left" isn't true. If counting started at Day 0, Nanook has 12 left (he currently has 13 posts).

dunya commented, but her response was independent of my accusing MP about the post count restriction.

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 12:44 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 11:31 ami feel like epi's case on mp was a bit more like an english teacher nitpicking someone's grammar vs. scumminess in posts so i would vote epi out before mp.

You might know this already, but Epi is literally an English teacher irl. So I would kind of expect him to sounds like that as a default. I get that you think it weaken's his case on MP, but it doesn't necessarily make me read Epi as bad. Especially with schools being out, he's gotta find an outlet.

"I would vote Epi out before MP" is a strange conclusion to "i feel like epi's case on mp was a bit more like an english teacher nitpicking someone's grammar vs. scumminess in posts."

I do not agree that my treatment of MP was pedantic in the least (which is what the description implies). The meat of my accusation against MP was him complaining about posts and not doing anything about acquiring more posts. Then I realized I read everything about Day 0 the wrong way and it would appear I wasn't alone.

The problem I have here is the implication that "Epi vs MP" is something that needs to be "solved" as it were. Phrasing like this paves the road for "Well, Epi is dead. He was a civilian. We need to assess MP more strongly now."

That post reeks to me. [VOTE: dunya] aubergine

Anyway, this revelation on my end makes MP's reaction (one of bafflement) sensible. It doesn't tell me anything about his alignment on its own, but it at least makes sense.

Ohh, that makes a lot more sense now, Epi, so thank you. See, I assumed from the get-go that we had 25 on Day 0, then it reset to a separate 25 (or, in this case Jay's updated things) on Day 1, and so I was posting considering that fact.

Also, @Russtifinko, I won't quote your long post, but Omerta was years ago, I couldn't even remember so I just checked -- May-June 2015.

As for my thoughts on dunya, the jury's out I think, and I'm going to have to wait and see more. It's within her modus operandi to make strong reads on Day 1. I'd still put her at slight town for whatever my opinion of her is worth.

As for whether people post in giant posts or multiple times in a row, I'm not sure anyone would think that doing the latter is a scum strategy? But perhaps I'm wrong there

Ok. Since Omerta was that long ago, I think Epi's case on you is bunk. As far as posting multiple times in a row , my theory is this: a scum player could conceivably use up their posts early in the Day, then say, "Aww shucks guys, I'm out of posts. Too bad I can't give reads or help y'all ctach baddies as the final votes come in." Civs will absolutely want to be able to be in the discussion throughout the day and save posts accordingly.

MP, is your slight town read on duyna purely gut-based? She's my strongest suspect right now, so if there's a good reason to change that I'd like to hear it.

nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 8:17 pm Yall are overthinking the post count thing holy shit

Everyone has 25 posts for Day 1

The Day 0 posts don't matter

Jay was posting our post counts as reference so he could see when someone's total would show that they had posted 25 times on Day 1

Jesus.

I think this is wrong....what use would it be to use to show our eventual hypothetical post counts?? I'm 99% sure JJJ told us the D1 post limit each player has, which was influenced by post count on D0. Maybe our host can weigh in to clarify his previous post so we're all on the same page?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:05 pm

Post count ceilings for Day 1:

26 - Dragon D. Luffy
28 - dunya
34 - Epignosis
26 - G-Man
29 - M Plus 7
28 - MacDougall
30 - NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
30 - nutella
29 - Russtifinko
28 - sig
31 - Sloonei
26 - speedchuck
29 - TonyStarkPrime
28 - Turnip Head

Jiggy pursuits are now underway, and your 4-liners actually count.

I am an idiot - should have realized this way sooner. It looks like however many posts we made on D0 got added to our D1 totals. So for example, I posted 4 times on D0 so got 25+4 to work with today. Epi posted 9 times D0, so gets 25+9 today.

This makes my point from earlier even more relevant - "wasting" posts on D0 is actually a good thing and not just neutral, but wasting posts D1 is still bad. I don't mean that in an alignment sense, necessarily - I mean it just gives you more/less agency in the game.

For now I'm satisifed with Sloonei's response to my question about his sig vote. I can see a world where it's a baddie backing off an early push, so will keep an eye there, but downgrading my read from "super bad" to "mildly bad".

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 1:34 pm

Spoiler: show

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 8:51 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:22 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:02 pm 1.

sig wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:59 pm

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:46 pm Hey all, just checking in for now. Preoccupied with other items for the duration. Looking forward to playing this despite this post count limitation putting me in shackles.

Refusing to rhyme is kinda scummy
Also anyone who over rhymes/someone in first 3 is def mafia trying to be blendy.

Also fuck rhyming the whole reason i signed up for this game is since I don't wanna post why should I rhyme and be forced to post more.

Let us begin with a vote for sig
Whose entrance was just too big
He huffed and he puffed and made a scene
But he just looks the opposite of green

sig wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:02 pm Super excited to play with some of the oldies again!
Currently drinking wine and cleaning so not 100% here ergo ignore about half of the grammar and spelling mistakes the other half I'd make even not tipsy.


Also let's not lynch sig day one in this game okay gang? Okay


Also also I'm packing/moving for job, finishing out school and dealing with army junk so activity may be weird for a bit.

“Let’s not lynch sig day 1” looks like anxiety being masked as banter.

Lynch Sloonei after MP. This sucks.

1.
I agree about this being a bad look for Sloonei. Yeah, sig expressed conflicting views about rhyming. But to me that post, taken as a whole, reads as something a civ throws out because they aren't overly concerned with looking good. Mafia are the ones who try super hard to avoid contradictions in their posts, and that seems like it would've been super easy to avoid here.

Also, "let's not lynch sig day 1" is almost definitely anxiety masked as banter - no one likes dying D1. I don't see how it's alignment-indicative. Sloonei maybe you can explain that one?

Actually, as I reread Sloonei it looks worse and worse to me. As Tony pointed out, he started the lynch train on sig, then switch his vote to Tony because he didn't like all the votes on sig.....what???


-Other Thoughts-
Gonna disagree with Mac - I think Epi is genuinely scumhunting in his big D1 post about MP and Sloonei, and I don't really care about someone "burning through" their D0 posts.

On the other hand, although NANOOK's rhymes are probably the dopest so far, he's burning through D1 posts, which IMO is a different matter than the D0 ones. I also hate the vote on sig - I think it was bandwagony and poorly justified.

MP did the same thing as sig with the ambivalent response to post count limits, and I also don't think that is a big deal - knowing MP, he is probably really excited to be playing this but massively busy, so I bet he vascillates between wanting infinite posts and not having time to read infinite posts. I think the Omerta thing is really the only decent point in Epi's case against MP, but Epi says: "But that isn't important."

I don't entirely understand why you think it's a bad look for Sloonei -- is it because you disagree with it?

What makes you feel like Epi is genuinely scumhunting there? I don't disagree even, but what about it indicates to you that he's trying to assess my alignment?

How is the Omerta thing a decent point exactly? I hardly remember what actually happened in that game, except for I was scum. Then, thinking on it, I thought I recalled us not having a hard time in that game, but other than that my memory is pretty fuzzy about it. Regardless, why would that be a point towards my alignment here? That's what I think I don't understand.

My read on Sloonei wasn't just because I disagreed with the sig case, it was the way he presented it - made a case, placed a vote to get things going, then jumped off when 2 people joined. It seemed waffly and I could imagine a baddie thought process of "I'll subtly start a sig lynch here....wait it gained steam too fast....I don't wanna get revenge lynched D2, better distance."

However, like I said, Sloonei's explanation of a civ poking and being scared off by the momentum made sense to me, so downgraded to mildly bad.


As for Epi, this reads like classic civ Epi to me - he's playing super aggressive, making big cases on D1 when there's relatively little to go on, and playing with confidence. I guess the fact that I didn't fully agree with his case made me feel better about him, weirdly, because I'm used to him having more aggressive/confident reads than me from past games.

As far as Omerta, how long ago was it? To me, the point is more salient if the game happened very recently. If it was like 2 years ago I consider it basically worthless. If you should reasonably be expected to remember the results of the game and don't, it could mean you were lying, which would lend credence to you being bad here if you were bad there and expressed a similar sentiment. Overall, I'm not convinced you're bad by this case either way, but the Omerta thing is the only way I could see myself agreeing with it even partially.


Epi, for the record, I don't think you were being pedantic with MP. I was addressing dunya where she seemed to be in reading it and didn't clearly say that didn't match my read. Sorry.


Speaking of wasting posts, dunya just posted 5 times in a row - maybe combine those all into one? Also, I agree with this:

sig wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 6:06 pm Dunya is clearing mp way to quickly

To state this even more strongly - dunya's 5th post of the game started with "oh cool, town mp is on my team. that's a relief." I have a slight town read on MP right now, but it's D1 and you're willing to 100% clear him? I remember MP's meta being that he's slightly more likely to read people as town if they read him as town, and given that he was already gettign some cred from Sloonei eariler, it seems like dunya may be trying to get in his good graces here. Dunya, maybe explain a little better why you think MP is bona fide 100% civvie?

dunya wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 5:53 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 5:19 pm I do not agree that my treatment of MP was pedantic in the least (which is what the description implies). The meat of my accusation against MP was him complaining about posts and not doing anything about acquiring more posts. Then I realized I read everything about Day 0 the wrong way and it would appear I wasn't alone.

i hate this. you're trying to downplay the lack of basis for your case by saying "but everyone else thought the same, so i'm not odd, i'm not different, i'm just like the rest of you" bad.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 5:19 pmThe problem I have here is the implication that "Epi vs MP" is something that needs to be "solved" as it were. Phrasing like this paves the road for "Well, Epi is dead. He was a civilian. We need to assess MP more strongly now."

no, i've literally given MP a town read, so try to set another narrative for me please.

dunya, can you clarify more why you "hate" Epi's interpretation of the D0-D1 post count rules? It sounds like a vast proportion of the players misunderstood them, and when he realized he had, he immediately backed off and said it blew up his case. I could see this being more of "attack anyone who attacks MP to get in his good graces" like what I mentioned above.

nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 6:23 pm dunya seems her typical self
but she's not firmly on my town shelf
because I know she can be wily scum
but she's not under my voting thumb

Does anyone have some berries and whipped cream I can put on this waffle?

dunya wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 11:31 ami feel like epi's case on mp was a bit more like an english teacher nitpicking someone's grammar vs. scumminess in posts so i would vote epi out before mp.

You might know this already, but Epi is literally an English teacher irl. So I would kind of expect him to sounds like that as a default. I get that you think it weaken's his case on MP, but it doesn't necessarily make me read Epi as bad. Especially with schools being out, he's gotta find an outlet.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:22 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:02 pm 1.

sig wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:59 pm

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:46 pm Hey all, just checking in for now. Preoccupied with other items for the duration. Looking forward to playing this despite this post count limitation putting me in shackles.

Refusing to rhyme is kinda scummy
Also anyone who over rhymes/someone in first 3 is def mafia trying to be blendy.

Also fuck rhyming the whole reason i signed up for this game is since I don't wanna post why should I rhyme and be forced to post more.

Let us begin with a vote for sig
Whose entrance was just too big
He huffed and he puffed and made a scene
But he just looks the opposite of green

sig wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:02 pm Super excited to play with some of the oldies again!
Currently drinking wine and cleaning so not 100% here ergo ignore about half of the grammar and spelling mistakes the other half I'd make even not tipsy.


Also let's not lynch sig day one in this game okay gang? Okay


Also also I'm packing/moving for job, finishing out school and dealing with army junk so activity may be weird for a bit.

“Let’s not lynch sig day 1” looks like anxiety being masked as banter.

Lynch Sloonei after MP. This sucks.

1.
I agree about this being a bad look for Sloonei. Yeah, sig expressed conflicting views about rhyming. But to me that post, taken as a whole, reads as something a civ throws out because they aren't overly concerned with looking good. Mafia are the ones who try super hard to avoid contradictions in their posts, and that seems like it would've been super easy to avoid here.

Also, "let's not lynch sig day 1" is almost definitely anxiety masked as banter - no one likes dying D1. I don't see how it's alignment-indicative. Sloonei maybe you can explain that one?

Actually, as I reread Sloonei it looks worse and worse to me. As Tony pointed out, he started the lynch train on sig, then switch his vote to Tony because he didn't like all the votes on sig.....what???


-Other Thoughts-
Gonna disagree with Mac - I think Epi is genuinely scumhunting in his big D1 post about MP and Sloonei, and I don't really care about someone "burning through" their D0 posts.

On the other hand, although NANOOK's rhymes are probably the dopest so far, he's burning through D1 posts, which IMO is a different matter than the D0 ones. I also hate the vote on sig - I think it was bandwagony and poorly justified.

MP did the same thing as sig with the ambivalent response to post count limits, and I also don't think that is a big deal - knowing MP, he is probably really excited to be playing this but massively busy, so I bet he vascillates between wanting infinite posts and not having time to read infinite posts. I think the Omerta thing is really the only decent point in Epi's case against MP, but Epi says: "But that isn't important."

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:05 pm What rhymes with mafia?

Offin' ya?

Sloth in the...

Bothan, bruh

trough say wha?

Wow, I just noticed posts are numbered now. This is a whole new world, gang.

At risk of sounding overly simplistic, role claiming and infodumping are allowed, and "the mafia have been given safe character claims drawn at random from a larger pool of possible civilian characters." So come Day 1, should we all just say our roles, then vote to lynch from among the roles that people double-claim?

Also, hard aree with sig on this: "Also fuck rhyming the whole reason i signed up for this game is since I don't wanna post why should I rhyme and be forced to post more."

Hello again to one and all!
I don't care 'bout jiggy-stacking
25 posts is enough to ball.
The game is on; now let's get cracking!

Linki: Boooooo MP breaking the rhyming streak! Poor form.