Banjo-Kazooie Mafia [GAME OVER]

[MacDougall]

In post number three
I will [VOTE: MP] aubergine
This ain't the dog pee
I think I'd see

I have a counterpoint
Scum MP would want to roll smoother with the punches
For his teammates that he wouldn't want to disappoint
And good MP simply follows his hunches

[VOTE: Unvote M Plus 7] aubergine

Unvotes MP. Two votes after Sloonei defends MP.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Post count ceilings for Day 1:

26 - Dragon D. Luffy
28 - dunya
34 - Epignosis
26 - G-Man
29 - M Plus 7
28 - MacDougall
30 - NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
30 - nutella
29 - Russtifinko
28 - sig
31 - Sloonei
26 - speedchuck
29 - TonyStarkPrime
28 - Turnip Head

Jiggy pursuits are now underway, and your 4-liners actually count.

Clarification:

Post count limitations are per phase, and everyone started at 25 posts as the limit. Nobody was allowed to exceed 25 posts on Day 0. Now, on Day 1, nobody may make more than 25 posts this phase. This means that your total post count for the game may not exceed your Day 0 post count plus 25 (indicated above). I will be updating this every phase to reflect the maximum total post count each player may legally reach.

Within any single phase, your limit will always be a multiple of 5. It's 25 + 5*(# of activated Jiggies).

[MacDougall]

Two posts. Not votes. Sorry I've been drinking.

[MacDougall]

Epi pointing out dunya's post count speaks to my instincts
Like she's rationing them to get close to the quota
Not necessarily scummy, but I think it stinks
And I don't trust her one iota

[VOTE: dunya] aubergine

Voted dunya sheeping Epi in his own words.

[MacDougall]

The only opinion he's had that wasn't sheeping was his suspicion of me. Which came after I shared suspicion of him.

So all he's done is sheep until I suspected him then he omgused. And he did that after I made the read your criticising. So what's your problem?

[MacDougall]

Dunya which of G-man and Speedchuck is more likely to be town in your opinion?

[Turnip Head]

It's establishing pressure Mr. Dougall. So what if I sheeped reads? I wanted to see where they led. I still maintain my own opinions as evidenced by my unvotes.

You're entrenching your read of me by characterizing my play in the way you are. I think your other reads look like a scummer's reads; I think your suspicion of me in particular is opportunistic.

[MacDougall]

Opportunistic? How so?

[Turnip Head]

Get on board with me dougall. If you're town you know we can work together. I am 100% here for that. If you're bad you'll want to keep me hamstrung.

[G-Man]

Posting my Day 0 thoughts. With as few participants as there are, coupled with the post limit, I’m going to try to take notes on everyone and assign arbitrary points (+ or -) based on how posts make me feel about you.

Day 0 is not a useful day, but I got two feels out of it...

Spoiler: show

DAY 0:
DDL:
-Set a low bar for himself with rhyming concern. Only post. (0)

Dunya:
-Posts amount to repetitive’yeah let’s do this!’ and commiserating with those who rhyme trouble. (0)

Epi:
-Just screwing around on Day 0 (0)

MP:
-Most of his posts involved comments on post limitations. No engagement yet with this game, but only four posts. (0)

Mac:
-Can’t tell if Mac is serious about sig yet. Presumptuous but not unlike Mac. (0)

Nanook:
-Not a fan of his insistence on rhyming. Yes, it’s cheeky and fun but even I won’t encourage everyone to post solely in rhymes. Not a fan of his repetition of it. (-1)

Nutella :
-Not voting for sig D1. I feel like I remember sig having D1 woes in the past, but she should have qualified it. I’ll vote for anyone D1 if the content leads me that direction. (0)

Russtifinko:
-misunderstands baddies having a false cover role- civ look because a baddie would have clarified that with the host. (+1)
-I also agree with not being too attached to rhyming.

Sig:
-contradictory in first post; also odd theory about ‘over-rhyming’ and early posters.
-otherwise not much but jabs at MP and Mac. (0)

Sloonei:
-most notable is his big post postulating the impact of the post restriction and how it worked in other games. But this isn’t those games. If he continues to try to apply this logic with certainty to this game he will lose points. Every game is different. (0)

Speedchuck:
-one D0 standard post. (0)

Tony:
-declares his intent to just have some fun (0)

TH:
-Nothing but D0 null. (0)

But that’s not all,
My work’s not done!
Time now for me to crawl
Through the posts from Day 1.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

Hey fuckers it's Power Rankings Time

D5 The Mighty Ducks - Top 5!


1. M Plus 7 - Okay it's town MP let's not lynch him.

2. dunya - Okay it's town Dunya let's not lynch her.

3. Nutella - This is definitely towntella.

4. Russtifinko - Drops a bit but mostly because MP and Dunya went and showed me their role cards basically.

5. Sloonei - A bit of an awkward start but I give him points for considering threadstate so early on. I'll give him a mini pass because a post cap game does make sense to be something bothersome to him. Don't like his FPS town reads though. I see no reason to town read Epi or MP, let alone both of them. Would love an explanation.

6. Epignosis - I've moved him up a bit after sleeping because he's probably just town Epi.

7. TonyStarkPrime - Drops a bit from the last ranking mostly because of the movement of those below him. Still town reading him for the same reasons as before.

8. Sig - Got a bit of a wobbly boot on but still think he's town. Whiny sig is usually town sig.

Everyone Else

6. Turnip Head - My inverse read where he's town because he's taking the piss too much has reverted to a wtf read because literally all he's been doing is sheeping people.

8. NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - He seems to give very little fucks about getting his points across. This read could change if he would just stop posting in rhyme.

T11. G-Man + Speedchuck - They have made two posts each in a game that I would expect the scum to have action paralysis in.

[/quote]

Hey Mac, thanks for the updated reads. I suggest taking an ISO look at Nanook, and get back to me with what you think. Also can you elaborate on the Tony read?

Spoiler: show

12.

T11. G-Man + Speedchuck - They have made one off topic post each in a game that I would expect the scum to have action paralysis in.

Hey, why this?

--------------------------------------
Rainbow list to help me sort my thoughts and whatnot. Mostly GTH style reads here.


Russtifinko
Epignosis
Mac
MP
DDL
Nanook
dunya
nutella
Turnip Head
sig
Tony
G-man
speedchuck


Those results are boring. nutella and dunya are a pair of players that could very well be within their town games right now, but there's not enough for me to pronounce a judgment. DDL, like russ, feels good in his skepticism of me.
sig's been a little too self-focused. I don't care when he has or hasn't been lynched in past games. I want his opinions on this game, the one that's happening right now in this thread.
Nanook is green because he made me laugh.

Hey Sloonei, talk to me why you don't think there's enough for a judgement on dunya and nutella, but there's enough for Epi, Mac, and me.

Spoiler: show

Sloonei does actually have a weird snideness to his game that isn't usually present. Are you okay mate or are you just scum and is the being evil clouding your usual chirpy personality? I like how you've kept your POE super wide. Not very like you at all.

I would expect the methodology being wielded to make it harder for scum who already are not keen to post (ie. G-Man and Speedchuck who profile given G-Man doesn't like playing Mafia and Speedchuck slanks generally but somehow mustered an actual effort for Rona mafia so is probably burnt out). When I rand wolf I am always tailoring my posts, deleting them, walking away from the game etc. The post count cap + rhyming would just make that a lot worse.

I guess Sloonei's tone does seem a bit off now that you all have been mentioning it. I don't necessarily make too much of that alone though.

Spoiler: show

14. Epi feels distinctly different in this game, but I'm not currently inclined to view that as a negative point. Reads have been pouring out of him more openly than I'm used to. It's a change that doesn't necessarily strike me as agenda-driven. Or maybe that's the point.

But also I don't even know what he was talking about during the whole post count discussion. It seemed like he had it right at first and then fell down a rabbit hole with a misinterpretation of the rules. We had 25 posts on Day 0. We have 25 (+5) posts on Day 1.

Doesn't matter. You're mafia. [VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

Hey Epi, can you talk to me about this?

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Post count ceilings for Day 1:

26 - Dragon D. Luffy
28 - dunya
34 - Epignosis
26 - G-Man
29 - M Plus 7
28 - MacDougall
30 - NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
30 - nutella
29 - Russtifinko
28 - sig
31 - Sloonei
26 - speedchuck
29 - TonyStarkPrime
28 - Turnip Head

Jiggy pursuits are now underway, and your 4-liners actually count.

I believe it is that I have greatly misunderstood the nature of Day 0. I was under the impression that Day 0 gave us 25 posts and that Day 1 gave us 25 new posts. Doing the math here implies that wasn't the case. Mac's accusation against me (that I'm burning through posts when I only made two Day 1 posts) implies that he was under (what I assume to be) the correct interpretation.

I would think that someone would be kind enough to use one of his or her posts to inform me of my faulty thinking vis-à-vis my accusation of M Plus 7. This correction never came from anybody (TH and nutella even joined me). However. maybe it also is that others were making the same incorrect assumption.

1.

Refusing to rhyme is kinda scummy
Also anyone who over rhymes/someone in first 3 is def mafia trying to be blendy.

Also fuck rhyming the whole reason i signed up for this game is since I don't wanna post why should I rhyme and be forced to post more.

Let us begin with a vote for sig
Whose entrance was just too big
He huffed and he puffed and made a scene
But he just looks the opposite of green

Super excited to play with some of the oldies again!
Currently drinking wine and cleaning so not 100% here ergo ignore about half of the grammar and spelling mistakes the other half I'd make even not tipsy.


Also let's not lynch sig day one in this game okay gang? Okay


Also also I'm packing/moving for job, finishing out school and dealing with army junk so activity may be weird for a bit.

“Let’s not lynch sig day 1” looks like anxiety being masked as banter.

Lynch Sloonei after MP. This sucks.

1.
I agree about this being a bad look for Sloonei. Yeah, sig expressed conflicting views about rhyming. But to me that post, taken as a whole, reads as something a civ throws out because they aren't overly concerned with looking good. Mafia are the ones who try super hard to avoid contradictions in their posts, and that seems like it would've been super easy to avoid here.

Also, "let's not lynch sig day 1" is almost definitely anxiety masked as banter - no one likes dying D1. I don't see how it's alignment-indicative. Sloonei maybe you can explain that one?

Actually, as I reread Sloonei it looks worse and worse to me. As Tony pointed out, he started the lynch train on sig, then switch his vote to Tony because he didn't like all the votes on sig.....what???


-Other Thoughts-
Gonna disagree with Mac - I think Epi is genuinely scumhunting in his big D1 post about MP and Sloonei, and I don't really care about someone "burning through" their D0 posts.

On the other hand, although NANOOK's rhymes are probably the dopest so far, he's burning through D1 posts, which IMO is a different matter than the D0 ones. I also hate the vote on sig - I think it was bandwagony and poorly justified.

MP did the same thing as sig with the ambivalent response to post count limits, and I also don't think that is a big deal - knowing MP, he is probably really excited to be playing this but massively busy, so I bet he vascillates between wanting infinite posts and not having time to read infinite posts. I think the Omerta thing is really the only decent point in Epi's case against MP, but Epi says: "But that isn't important."

The enlarged either means that Russ is believing the same thing I was regarding Day 0, or he's being willfully ignorant here. I lean the former.

You’re talking wack, son
I’ve got like 20+ posts left
I’m barely a quarter done
I won’t leave you missing me and bereft

My vote is the best one
And I don’t wanna hear no beef
Pretending my reads are good is fun
So stop fighting it and hop on my scum killing leaf


(8)

The same thing applies here. At this point, Nanook had eight posts, which would mean "20+ posts left" isn't true. If counting started at Day 0, Nanook has 12 left (he currently has 13 posts).

dunya commented, but her response was independent of my accusing MP about the post count restriction.

i feel like epi's case on mp was a bit more like an english teacher nitpicking someone's grammar vs. scumminess in posts so i would vote epi out before mp.

You might know this already, but Epi is literally an English teacher irl. So I would kind of expect him to sounds like that as a default. I get that you think it weaken's his case on MP, but it doesn't necessarily make me read Epi as bad. Especially with schools being out, he's gotta find an outlet.

"I would vote Epi out before MP" is a strange conclusion to "i feel like epi's case on mp was a bit more like an english teacher nitpicking someone's grammar vs. scumminess in posts."

I do not agree that my treatment of MP was pedantic in the least (which is what the description implies). The meat of my accusation against MP was him complaining about posts and not doing anything about acquiring more posts. Then I realized I read everything about Day 0 the wrong way and it would appear I wasn't alone.

The problem I have here is the implication that "Epi vs MP" is something that needs to be "solved" as it were. Phrasing like this paves the road for "Well, Epi is dead. He was a civilian. We need to assess MP more strongly now."

That post reeks to me. [VOTE: dunya] aubergine

Anyway, this revelation on my end makes MP's reaction (one of bafflement) sensible. It doesn't tell me anything about his alignment on its own, but it at least makes sense.

Ohh, that makes a lot more sense now, Epi, so thank you. See, I assumed from the get-go that we had 25 on Day 0, then it reset to a separate 25 (or, in this case Jay's updated things) on Day 1, and so I was posting considering that fact.

Also, Russtifinko, I won't quote your long post, but Omerta was years ago, I couldn't even remember so I just checked -- May-June 2015.

As for my thoughts on dunya, the jury's out I think, and I'm going to have to wait and see more. It's within her modus operandi to make strong reads on Day 1. I'd still put her at slight town for whatever my opinion of her is worth.

As for whether people post in giant posts or multiple times in a row, I'm not sure anyone would think that doing the latter is a scum strategy? But perhaps I'm wrong there

Ok. Since Omerta was that long ago, I think Epi's case on you is bunk. As far as posting multiple times in a row , my theory is this: a scum player could conceivably use up their posts early in the Day, then say, "Aww shucks guys, I'm out of posts. Too bad I can't give reads or help y'all ctach baddies as the final votes come in." Civs will absolutely want to be able to be in the discussion throughout the day and save posts accordingly.

MP, is your slight town read on duyna purely gut-based? She's my strongest suspect right now, so if there's a good reason to change that I'd like to hear it.

Yall are overthinking the post count thing holy shit

Everyone has 25 posts for Day 1

The Day 0 posts don't matter

Jay was posting our post counts as reference so he could see when someone's total would show that they had posted 25 times on Day 1

Jesus.

I think this is wrong....what use would it be to use to show our eventual hypothetical post counts?? I'm 99% sure JJJ told us the D1 post limit each player has, which was influenced by post count on D0. Maybe our host can weigh in to clarify his previous post so we're all on the same page?

Yeah, I think she seems townie. Can you better explain to me your beefs with her exactly?

Spoiler: show

Mac seems more interested in reading townies than finding scum

I've voted for him

This is how town wins. In the last game I played I had the entire scum in the POE early. You should remember you were scum in that game. I used to scum read first but I realise I am far better at town reading people.

I can relate.

Spoiler: show

Ok so dunya and MP are acting like classic supatown duya and MP, not enough for me to be able to locktown them but enough for me to want to leave them alone for the time being.

Epi's case on dunya is weird af but it could be the normal epi thing.

I feel cool about Mac, too.

Russ feels very honest too.

Everyone else is whatever.

No idea who to vote for. I'm tempted to park my vote on this juicy TH wagon that seems to be starting to form. I miss super happy and casual TH (though he did make some posts like that in D0). Mac could be onto something that triggered TH is bad.

But I see nutella and TSP on it? Neither of them have yet to earn places my civ pile. DO NOT WANT.

Hey DDL, why do you not feel like you can town read nutella or Tony?

Also, can anyone else talk to me about this Russ v. dunya thing specifically? Do people think they're v/v or something else? I feel like it's an important development that no one's really addressed.

Spoiler: show

Nah I'm cool I'm cool. If I seem triggered it's because townie TH often feels misunderstood, or like, I don't give myself the benefit of the doubt from others, if that makes any sense. I also feel pressure to make the right reads, which I'd like to change about my playstyle so I can play calmer

I feel this as genuine.

Spoiler: show

Speaking of wasting posts, dunya just posted 5 times in a row - maybe combine those all into one?

so? they were all relevant as they came up. and combining posts on my phone is not possible, i can only do it on my laptop. and i'm not worried about post count, there's lots of townies here and no one wants to be washed out by someone who makes newspaper posts every time they post. even 1 good to-the-point post is worth a lot more than ramblings and echos that everyone has already discussed or said. this game gives a chance for everyone to do their part and chip in and be heard so don't expect newspapers more than once a day.

To state this even more strongly - dunya's 5th post of the game started with "oh cool, town mp is on my team. that's a relief." I have a slight town read on MP right now, but it's D1 and you're willing to 100% clear him? I remember MP's meta being that he's slightly more likely to read people as town if they read him as town, and given that he was already gettign some cred from Sloonei eariler, it seems like dunya may be trying to get in his good graces here. Dunya, maybe explain a little better why you think MP is bona fide 100% civvie?

who said i 100% towncleared him? who said i can't pass out town reads and take them away when they prove to be wrong? who said this? who makes those rules? this is how i play. my strategy is forming as many town reads as i can. it's the most effective way to hunt for scum, because paranoia makes everyone look scummy, even genuine townies. when i can't find town in someone, then you worry.

dunya, can you clarify more why you "hate" Epi's interpretation of the D0-D1 post count rules? It sounds like a vast proportion of the players misunderstood them, and when he realized he had, he immediately backed off and said it blew up his case.

because his case used things like "MP complaining about counting votes, but he's an accounting professor, so fake!" -- that's so incredibly silly and i felt like it was a built-up strawman case with points added just to amplify the number of words on the case.

I could see this being more of "attack anyone who attacks MP to get in his good graces" like what I mentioned above.

why do i care in the least to be in MP's good graces? is that what you're doing with your very wishy washy "why is dunya giving MP towncred" but adding a quick disclaimer that "he's town for me too!" lol. hypocricy much? who cares if i say slight, much, a little before i say town?

if anything your posts about MP and me reeks of tmi as though you know for certain MP is town and trying to spin the narrative that i'm trying to pocket him. very bad look for you.

I feel like you all are in a different thread than I am, and I can't tell if you two are speaking past each other or not. dunya, can you talk to me more about this?

Spoiler: show

Mac's bad fam we should probably lynch him. Saying interesting things doesn't make someone town, he's reverse engineering town reads

What do you mean exactly by reverse engineering town reads? I'm intrigued.

Spoiler: show

How does him balancing to overcome it prevent the human experience of it?

i don't understand? you said: "expect the scum to have action paralysis" to me, that implies role restrictions. what did you mean?

after rereading sloonei im undecided. i sense there's some reservation in his posts that i know scum sloonei is known for, but with the post restrictions, i can't tell if that's because of the limitations or because he actually is scum sloonei. but avoiding some stuff and choosing what to comment on without weighing in on things happening makes me hesitant. putting me and nutella in the same undecided could be town could not be category didn't sit right with me either. i don't see anywhere where he's questioned or called out anything i've said. indeed, he's gone this far without addressing me or commenting about me at all before his rainbow!

Why didn't it sit right with you?

Spoiler: show

@MacDougall

you wrote all TH has done is sheep people. where is that? i looked for it and didn't see it.

his first opinion was to say sig wasn't bad. everyone else was piling on sig. he went against the flow.

he voted MP with others, but then was the first to provide a counterargument and unvote.

he poked and voted for me on his own.

he voted for you and is pushing for your lynch for reasons he created entirely.


spicy hot take: mac and nutella and sloonei are bad.

I love the idea that you threw out this spicy hot take, but I have no idea what to make of that at this time. I will enter it into the database for evaluation. Beep boop.

Despite not necessarily agreeing with the hot take, I do feel like this game is in a hard mode... and I'm not quite sure why I feel that way. My reads are probably way wrong.

[Tangrowth]

MP7 reads

Moderate town:
Mac
Russ
dunya
Turnip
Sloonei

Slight town:
Epi
Nanook
DDL
nutella

POE:
Tony
sig
speed
G-Man

???????

[Sloonei]

Everyone says my tone is off. I genuinely have no idea what that’s about. I’m burning a post just to say this. The only thing I’m doing different is watching my post count.

Also I guess I’ll note for [mention]dunya[/mention] and [mention]M Plus 7[/mention] that I’ve added a lot more experience to my scum game since you last saw it. That meta is out of date.

[Tangrowth]

I understand, Sloonei, it's alright. I think you're alright, but I think what people might be detecting is that you just can't do your normal slower-burn questions-asking and interactions, and that makes you seem more team-oriented and friendly maybe? Like dunya mentioned you hadn't interacted with her, for example.

I feel rather lost right now. I'll be back.

[dunya]

Epi pointing out dunya's post count speaks to my instincts
Like she's rationing them to get close to the quota
Not necessarily scummy, but I think it stinks
And I don't trust her one iota

[VOTE: dunya] aubergine

Voted dunya sheeping Epi in his own words.

no, that's not how sheeping works. if that's sheeping, then everyone in the god damn thread is a sheep. we may never suspect someone who someone else suspects. we may never town read someone that someone else townreads.

the facts is:
they defended sig. they didn't have to. everyone, yourself included (baaaaa, that's my sheep voice), was saying sig bad. they did not.
they voted mp. everyone else was voting mp, granted.
they set a counterargument that was totally different than sloonei's "i think mp is genuine" argument and unvoted for mp before anyone else did.
they voted for me because they thought i was being stingy with my posts. it doesn't matter if epi brought up dunya has 11 posts in a 25 post day. epi wasn't voting for me, he was voting for nutella. that's not called "sheeping"
they voted for you and gave genuine reason.

so again, none of TH's behavior to me is sheeping. they are their own person and have formed authentic reads in the thread where i can see conscious development in voting patterns that isn't just "sheeping".

I feel like you all are in a different thread than I am, and I can't tell if you two are speaking past each other or not. dunya, can you talk to me more about this?

what specifically do you want to know? russ is pinged because i posted in succession and didn't merge them all in one post. i don't have to defend that, it's how i choose to play and idc if that doesn't suit the style of someone else. he also think i'm trying to pocket you. for him to think you are being pocketed implies i am bad and you are good. it implies he knows that you are good. it implies TMI imo.

the only person we can claim is being pocketed is ourselves at this point. kinda like what nutella is doing to me itt. i am town, so i feel ulterior motives in her easy agreement with me.

Spoiler: show

How does him balancing to overcome it prevent the human experience of it?

i don't understand? you said: "expect the scum to have action paralysis" to me, that implies role restrictions. what did you mean?

after rereading sloonei im undecided. i sense there's some reservation in his posts that i know scum sloonei is known for, but with the post restrictions, i can't tell if that's because of the limitations or because he actually is scum sloonei. but avoiding some stuff and choosing what to comment on without weighing in on things happening makes me hesitant. putting me and nutella in the same undecided could be town could not be category didn't sit right with me either. i don't see anywhere where he's questioned or called out anything i've said. indeed, he's gone this far without addressing me or commenting about me at all before his rainbow!

Why didn't it sit right with you?

the relationship between me and nutella. why are we paired in his thoughts at all? it doesn't make sense to my brain. i also talked a bit more about my beef with sloonei in how he seems to have completely avoided me before his rainbow. he literally quotes a post by TH when he was voting for me to ask a question about game mechanics instead of even weighing in on dunya. it's uncanny to me.

[mention]Sloonei[/mention] - what about me? why have you completely avoided weighing in on me when you've been in the middle of the thread when epi and TH both accused me? what is your read on me now?

[Sloonei]

I understand, Sloonei, it's alright. I think you're alright, but I think what people might be detecting is that you just can't do your normal slower-burn questions-asking and interactions, and that makes you seem more team-oriented and friendly maybe? Like dunya mentioned you hadn't interacted with her, for example.

I feel rather lost right now. I'll be back.

Yeah the post cap has stripped me of my power in that regard. I don’t want to blow everything on one exchange.

I’d been waiting for dunya to give a firm read on me. She went from “sloonei is town” to “i missed something” to “undecided” with a long spiel about why I’m not sitting well with her. I wanted to see if I believed her once she settled on something. So far the conclusion is too murky to make a decision, which is how she also feels about me, so that might be worth something.

This also answers the question of why her and nutella were in my orange tier. I have not had a specific reason to suspect them, but their posts haven’t broken much ground for me. Contrast that with the others who were in my town tier, and they have mostly done things that I had tangible reads on. Epi’s been more forthcoming than I’ve seen him in a while; you look just like the version of yourself I saw as a lurker on Day 1 of Coronavirus, DDL and Russti pursued suspicions of me that felt authentic. I’m less sure of Mac than I was before, but I’d still maintain a slight green read on him. His reads list looked like an effective way to communicate a lot of information in a single post, but that could easily be a scum strategy.

[dunya]

i feel like sloonei wouldn't outright ignore me. i've mentioned you plenty of times, and you'd at least ask me what it was that was making me iffy on you. you'd want to hear it so you can defend yourself or make a decision on where i stand. you've outright ignored me, and it's a point of concern for me.

i also don't believe i still haven't left enough of an impression on you to either be in your town or suspect tier. if anyone can read me, it's you.

anyway, i'm gonna see how i feel about this, because i think mac's long reads was the easiest thing to fake as a scum to appear like a contributing member of town: [VOTE: macdougall] aubergine

[Sloonei]

i feel like sloonei wouldn't outright ignore me. i've mentioned you plenty of times, and you'd at least ask me what it was that was making me iffy on you. you'd want to hear it so you can defend yourself or make a decision on where i stand. you've outright ignored me, and it's a point of concern for me.

i also don't believe i still haven't left enough of an impression on you to either be in your town or suspect tier. if anyone can read me, it's you.

anyway, i'm gonna see how i feel about this, because i think mac's long reads was the easiest thing to fake as a scum to appear like a contributing member of town: [VOTE: macdougall] aubergine

I can say all of this about you as well. So this post earns you that coveted town lean.

[dunya]

14. Epi feels distinctly different in this game, but I'm not currently inclined to view that as a negative point. Reads have been pouring out of him more openly than I'm used to. It's a change that doesn't necessarily strike me as agenda-driven. Or maybe that's the point.

'not-negative'
'not necessarily agenda driven'
'maybe it's supposed to look good'

Do you have a read on Epi, or are those hedge brambles distracting you?

Yes, you will note that he’s in my highest tier of town reads. That post is worded the way it is because it was in response to a comment that epi feels different.

Yucky take, [VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine

i see you're still voting for speedchuck. is he your best suspect based on this post alone?

Dunya which of G-man and Speedchuck is more likely to be town in your opinion?

i'd have to see more of both of them before deciding. i liked g-man's day 0 recap, looking forward to see what he made of day 1. gth, i would say speed is town and gman is bad. if i like, had to pick one.

Opportunistic? How so?

[mention]Turnip Head[/mention] i'd like an answer to this too please. how was macdougall's suspicion of you opportunistic?

[Sloonei]

14. Epi feels distinctly different in this game, but I'm not currently inclined to view that as a negative point. Reads have been pouring out of him more openly than I'm used to. It's a change that doesn't necessarily strike me as agenda-driven. Or maybe that's the point.

'not-negative'
'not necessarily agenda driven'
'maybe it's supposed to look good'

Do you have a read on Epi, or are those hedge brambles distracting you?

Yes, you will note that he’s in my highest tier of town reads. That post is worded the way it is because it was in response to a comment that epi feels different.

Yucky take, [VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine

i see you're still voting for speedchuck. is he your best suspect based on this post alone?

I don't really have a "top suspect" and that post wasn't all that long ago (I've been asleep for most of the time between then and now), and my vote at this stage is never final, but yeah, I still think that was a bad take. I can easily see it coming from a cherrypicking townchuck, but it seemed like a viable point to apply pressure to and that hasn't changed.

[Tangrowth]

I'll add to the speedchuck wagon because he's in my POE and because so we have more options.

Thanks for the responses, dunya and Sloonei.

[VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine

[Turnip Head]

14. Epi feels distinctly different in this game, but I'm not currently inclined to view that as a negative point. Reads have been pouring out of him more openly than I'm used to. It's a change that doesn't necessarily strike me as agenda-driven. Or maybe that's the point.

'not-negative'
'not necessarily agenda driven'
'maybe it's supposed to look good'

Do you have a read on Epi, or are those hedge brambles distracting you?

Yes, you will note that he’s in my highest tier of town reads. That post is worded the way it is because it was in response to a comment that epi feels different.

Yucky take, [VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine

i see you're still voting for speedchuck. is he your best suspect based on this post alone?

Dunya which of G-man and Speedchuck is more likely to be town in your opinion?

i'd have to see more of both of them before deciding. i liked g-man's day 0 recap, looking forward to see what he made of day 1. gth, i would say speed is town and gman is bad. if i like, had to pick one.

Opportunistic? How so?

@Turnip Head i'd like an answer to this too please. how was macdougall's suspicion of you opportunistic?

I am thinking, alone in my turnipy head, that Mac thought I'm an easy person to rally doubt around, because I'm often misunderstood or distrusted as a townie. He said I was townie while I was fooling around and then scumread me once I started pursuing leads. I'd describe that as opportunistic. Gets me off his team's back and sows suspicion of me at the same time.

[Russtifinko]

Get on board with me dougall. If you're town you know we can work together. I am 100% here for that. If you're bad you'll want to keep me hamstrung.

Wait....so if Mac doesn't agree with you, he's bad, and not just misunderstanding you? Can you explain how that works, especially since you said you're easily misunderstood?

Speaking of wasting posts, dunya just posted 5 times in a row - maybe combine those all into one?

so? they were all relevant as they came up. and combining posts on my phone is not possible, i can only do it on my laptop. and i'm not worried about post count, there's lots of townies here and no one wants to be washed out by someone who makes newspaper posts every time they post. even 1 good to-the-point post is worth a lot more than ramblings and echos that everyone has already discussed or said. this game gives a chance for everyone to do their part and chip in and be heard so don't expect newspapers more than once a day.

To state this even more strongly - dunya's 5th post of the game started with "oh cool, town mp is on my team. that's a relief." I have a slight town read on MP right now, but it's D1 and you're willing to 100% clear him? I remember MP's meta being that he's slightly more likely to read people as town if they read him as town, and given that he was already gettign some cred from Sloonei eariler, it seems like dunya may be trying to get in his good graces here. Dunya, maybe explain a little better why you think MP is bona fide 100% civvie?

who said i 100% towncleared him? who said i can't pass out town reads and take them away when they prove to be wrong? who said this? who makes those rules? this is how i play. my strategy is forming as many town reads as i can. it's the most effective way to hunt for scum, because paranoia makes everyone look scummy, even genuine townies. when i can't find town in someone, then you worry.

dunya, can you clarify more why you "hate" Epi's interpretation of the D0-D1 post count rules? It sounds like a vast proportion of the players misunderstood them, and when he realized he had, he immediately backed off and said it blew up his case.

because his case used things like "MP complaining about counting votes, but he's an accounting professor, so fake!" -- that's so incredibly silly and i felt like it was a built-up strawman case with points added just to amplify the number of words on the case.

I could see this being more of "attack anyone who attacks MP to get in his good graces" like what I mentioned above.

why do i care in the least to be in MP's good graces? is that what you're doing with your very wishy washy "why is dunya giving MP towncred" but adding a quick disclaimer that "he's town for me too!" lol. hypocricy much? who cares if i say slight, much, a little before i say town?

if anything your posts about MP and me reeks of tmi as though you know for certain MP is town and trying to spin the narrative that i'm trying to pocket him. very bad look for you.

OMGUS much?

Obviously the angle I see where you're bad is predicated on MP being good - but you're the one saying you're absolutely certain beyond any shred of doubt that MP is town (see bolded above). No one held a gun to your head and made you say that. If you somewhere said (before this post) that it was possible you're wrong on him, your opinion could change, etc, then please point me to it because I missed it. What I see is this:

1) You say MP is 100% cleared town, for no reason I can discern.
2) You start buddying MP.
3) You OMGUS me when I call you on it.

I'm voting Dunya. I know a couple people are townreading her on gut, but no one's given a better explanation than that, so I don't currently see any points in her favor. (idk how this aubergine thing works)

[Russtifinko]

To further clarify on dunya, this is similar to the dunya/Epi thing earlier. I didn't mean to imply Epi was being pedantic myself. I was operating from within dunya's assertion that he was. Holding it true that Epi was being pedantic, I was supplying an explanation for it that wasn't alignment-indicative. I also am not saying I have MP towncleared, but I am addressing dunya's behavior using her own standpoint that he is. Again holding that true, dunya's actions look very bad to me.

Also, big ups to JJJ for clearing up the post count thing.

[dunya]

[mention]Russtifinko[/mention] russti, i'm gonna peg this down to: you don't know my play style and i don't know yours. me town reading a lot of people is very normal. if you'd like to check my town game, have a look and see for yourself. saying "ok cool mps on my team" is a fun way of saying MP is a town read. i don't have to always add adjectives before town to indicate the level of towniness. i saw town mp and mentioned it. that's the bottom of it. i don't care if you're voting for me for this reason, and this is the last i'll talk about it. you're free to review my past town games for comparison to see how i do this in like, every game i've ever played in.

also unfortunately end of day is 11pm my time and i'm unavailable from 9pm until like 10.45. go figure the first time ever i have a reasonable end of day it sucks for me. i'm still around for 15 minutes, but feel pretty good about my mcdougall vote tbh. nothing he said inspired confidence in me he was town, felt like the hole he was digging got bigger and bigger.

[dunya]

I don't really have a "top suspect" and that post wasn't all that long ago (I've been asleep for most of the time between then and now), and my vote at this stage is never final, but yeah, I still think that was a bad take. I can easily see it coming from a cherrypicking townchuck, but it seemed like a viable point to apply pressure to and that hasn't changed.

what do you think of three cases against me till now: epi's, turnip's and now russti's?

[Turnip Head]

Get on board with me dougall. If you're town you know we can work together. I am 100% here for that. If you're bad you'll want to keep me hamstrung.

Wait....so if Mac doesn't agree with you, he's bad, and not just misunderstanding you? Can you explain how that works, especially since you said you're easily misunderstood?

I would say you've misunderstood my intent here Russti. I'm telling Mac that if he's town I'm here to solve the game together. Surely he can see the merit in that plan.

[dunya]

i never knew with every scum or town read we gave we have to add a disclaimer: "but i could be wrong." lol. that's silly.

anyway, sloonei voting for speedchuck still doesn't inspire me, i'm not believing he doesn't have any top suspects or that speed with his like 2 on topic posts is the best choice today. there's a ton of content and events and no time or room to skirt around it. i would say he's in my suspects pile along with mac.

[G-Man]

Patching together a reads list yields this:

GOOD VIBES
-Russ: His good on the fake-claim cover roles makes me feel good. A baddie would have clarified with the host.
-Dunya: I like her spunk. She's more assertive and direct than I would suspect a baddie to be.
-Epi: He makes good counter-punches, but how many times have I been duped into civ reading him in the past?

TBD (I need to ISO these for a stronger read)
-DDL
-sig
-Sloonei
-Speed
-Tony
-TH

BAD VIBES
-MP: This might be old bias due to his high-volume style of play. It's a soft ping, so don't take it the wrong way.
-Nutella: Equal parts old bias and not feeling much of anything despite the volume of her ISO.
-Mac: He keeps coming back to low-hanging fruit. Lazy for a civvie to do; wise for a baddie. It's never lost its appeal. I am low-hanging fruit, I realize this, so my judgement may be a tad harsh.
-Nanook: Maybe it's a lack of familiarity, but something in his play rubs me the wrong way. Rhyme scheme in moderation and play the game, friendo.

[nutella]

(17)

smh @ mac recklessly hitting his post cap. RIP. He's town.

I'm not inspired by TH's responses to Mac. I get that TH has been "misunderstood" as a townie before but I don't get nearly the same sense from them this game that I often do. Their reads feel much more.. idk, manufactured somehow. maybe I'm just not following their godlike intuitive thought processes, but I feel so strongly that they're wrong about Mac that I'm not inclined to believe it's a real read.

[nutella]

I am concerned that Nanook seems to have disappeared. Hopefully we'll see more from him in the last few hours but I haven't got any particular townie feeling from his posts so far.

(18)

[Epignosis]

DDL:

This assessment makes sense to me. Sloonei says the "useful wisdom" (as DDL called it) was a joke nobody got. In what way was it a joke?

I hate posts like these though. DDL, why are you cool with Mac?

I would not lynch DDL today.

++++

dunya:

I had an early negative Day 1 impression, but that's gone. dunya laying into Mac and Sloonei gets a thumbs up.

I would not lynch dunya today.

++++

G-Man:

He needs more time to post. He doesn't have much, but I will say this:

-Not a fan of his insistence on rhyming. Yes, it’s cheeky and fun but even I won’t encourage everyone to post solely in rhymes. Not a fan of his repetition of it. (-1)

...is strange coming from a guy who insists on practicing strange and quirky gimmicks all the time (his posts all start with a P, this time, by the way).

It's doubtful to me that someone of G-Man's quirky caliber would characterize posting in rhymes as something bad or inscrutable. We understand song lyrics just fine (well, most. We have Yes and Led Zeppelin...)

I would lynch G-Man today.

++++

M Plus 7:

My early Day 1 opinion on him was tainted by a misunderstanding of things on my part. The current involvement looks fine.

I would not lynch MP today.

++++

MacDougall:

I do agree with dunya's posts about Mac's treatment of TH.

However, two points in Mac's favor:

First, his lists look honest in the sense that I can peer through the alcohol-laced clouds and discern some progression of thought that I can understand even if I do not always agree with it.

Second Mac posted "8. Sig - Got a bit of a wobbly boot on but still think he's town. Whiny sig is usually town sig. " but still has his vote on sig. It's a small thing, but it feels sloppy rather than sinister.

I would not lynch MacDougall today.

++++

Nanook:

All I see that Nanook has said is that MP is good and that sig is bad.

I do not know why Nanook thinks these things.

Plus he said I was bad at math.

I would lynch Nanook today.

++++

nutella:

I went into this with a negative opinion but no longer have that. There are a couple of specific things that stood out (no, I won't call attention to them).

I would not lynch nutella today.

++++

Russtifinko:

Glad to see the gentle giant. How are things? How is your wife?

Russ had the same thought I did about post counts. That likely means he would have had to continue to fake that interpretation if he were bad (I would assume this would have been discussed in BTSC if he genuinely didn't understand and was bad). At times Russ sounds like a politician, but I can overlook that for now. Would scrutinize more later.

I would not lynch Russtifinko today.

++++

sig:

All I see from sig is that Mac is dumb and dunya seems to know that MP is good and is therefore bad herself.

Yet his vote is on the dumb one and not the bad one.

I would lynch sig today.

++++

Sloonei:

I do not see Sloonei really digging in here. There was an early vote for sig and now a vote for speedchuck because of a post speedchuck made that I thought was valid inquiry. To put it another way, Sloonei looks reactive rather than proactive. It smells.

I would lynch Sloonei today.

++++

speedchuck:

There isn't much there, but chuck has asked for Day 2. I'll allow it.

I would not lynch speedchuck today.

++++

TonyStarkPrime:

Eh. Tiny thing in his favor. Won't mention what it is.

I would not lynch TSP today.

++++

TurnipHead:

I would need to see more than a tangle with Mac. That said, I don't have anything particularly negative to say about the Turnip at this time.

I would not lynch TH today.

[TonyStarkPrime]

My time is running low I see
I don’t have much time though to rea-
d the things that have been said of me
why are we all voting for Mackie?

[Russtifinko]

@Russtifinko russti, i'm gonna peg this down to: you don't know my play style and i don't know yours. me town reading a lot of people is very normal. if you'd like to check my town game, have a look and see for yourself. saying "ok cool mps on my team" is a fun way of saying MP is a town read. i don't have to always add adjectives before town to indicate the level of towniness. i saw town mp and mentioned it. that's the bottom of it. i don't care if you're voting for me for this reason, and this is the last i'll talk about it. you're free to review my past town games for comparison to see how i do this in like, every game i've ever played in.

also unfortunately end of day is 11pm my time and i'm unavailable from 9pm until like 10.45. go figure the first time ever i have a reasonable end of day it sucks for me. i'm still around for 15 minutes, but feel pretty good about my mcdougall vote tbh. nothing he said inspired confidence in me he was town, felt like the hole he was digging got bigger and bigger.

dunya, totally agree we could be misunderstanding each other. But IMO, you OMGUSing me and then when I came back at you immediately dropping the OMGUS and writing about the person with the most votes is pingy as all hell. My issue isn't that you're town reading people, it's that you cozied up to MP after townreading him. As I said, my memory of his meta is that he's a little susceptible to that, at least early (no offense MP). He's also usually a forceful town voice, so if I were a baddie, I'd damn sure want to be his friend. So this is very specifically aboutt he interaction between the two of you, and then your reaction to me pointing it out, rather than some problem with your approach to the game of mafia.

I'll try to keep an open mind about this, especially since 4-5 people seem to feel good about you, but I think at every stage your reaction has looked worse and worse to me. I would love others to weigh in on if they see her moves the same way I do or what (beyond 'gut') makes anyone think she's not a good candidate.

Get on board with me dougall. If you're town you know we can work together. I am 100% here for that. If you're bad you'll want to keep me hamstrung.

Wait....so if Mac doesn't agree with you, he's bad, and not just misunderstanding you? Can you explain how that works, especially since you said you're easily misunderstood?

I would say you've misunderstood my intent here Russti. I'm telling Mac that if he's town I'm here to solve the game together. Surely he can see the merit in that plan.

Ok, fair enough. Your other posts ping me though:

It's establishing pressure Mr. Dougall. So what if I sheeped reads? I wanted to see where they led. I still maintain my own opinions as evidenced by my unvotes.

You're entrenching your read of me by characterizing my play in the way you are. I think your other reads look like a scummer's reads; I think your suspicion of me in particular is opportunistic.

I don't like this post, or TH's response to Mac in general. Sheeping reads to see where they lead doesn't make a great deal of sense to me, since, if someone else already has the read, in theory we'll get to see where it leads without sheeping, and it takes away responsibility from someone to make their own unique reads. Many a baddie has said "I agree with Y - we ought to lynch X to get more info. Oh, didn't work out? It was Y's idea! Get them!"

To me, unvotes are also generally a scummy look, especially if other votes have come on to the votee between the vote and unvote. It's a good way to start a lynch train without being held responsible for it.

Lack of accountability is the primary tool baddies use to get out of being lynched the longer a game goes. The more i read this, the more it sounds like TH is explaining baddie moves but saying they're civ moves.

TH is now my #2 suspect, and I would change my vote to him if it will matter in the final poll. I still prefer dunya though.

(17)

smh @ mac recklessly hitting his post cap. RIP. He's town.

I'm not inspired by TH's responses to Mac. I get that TH has been "misunderstood" as a townie before but I don't get nearly the same sense from them this game that I often do. Their reads feel much more.. idk, manufactured somehow. maybe I'm just not following their godlike intuitive thought processes, but I feel so strongly that they're wrong about Mac that I'm not inclined to believe it's a real read.

I feel the opposite: to me that's pingy. Especially considering he seems to be a candidate for lynch today and a lot of his recent posts were short. I was reading Mac's scumhunting efforts today as sincere and don't understand why he's seemingly being punished for posting comprehensive reads - I thought that was what we're supposed to be doing?? So I still wouldn't lynch him over this D1, but it's worth keeping in mind for the future assuming he survives.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Pardon my absence, dear friends, for I‘ve been
Busy with work all week and it’s crazy.
Showing up late on Day 1 is a sin.
Do know it’s not because I am lazy.
I work for a school district and although
Buildings are closed and the students waylaid,
District staff are all essential, you know?
I’ve had to work late so vendors get paid.
Tonight and tomorrow, reading’s my goal,
Discern which of you for whom I shall vote,
And not fall into a catching-up hole.
May today a baddie hang by his throat!
But alas, this day more work must be done
For the beast called Wildcat Foundation.

If Milton could see
This sonnet
He’d probably
Throw praise on it

[Russtifinko]

++++

Russtifinko:

Glad to see the gentle giant. How are things? How is your wife?

Russ had the same thought I did about post counts. That likely means he would have had to continue to fake that interpretation if he were bad (I would assume this would have been discussed in BTSC if he genuinely didn't understand and was bad). At times Russ sounds like a politician, but I can overlook that for now. Would scrutinize more later.

I would not lynch Russtifinko today.

++++

Hey Epi! Good to be back! The wife is doing fine. We got a new nephew today!! Our first one. So that's been very exciting. Other than that, just bored with the lockdown, but things could be worse. How's your lovely family?

Also thanks for the thoughts re: dunya. That's the first positive thing I've heard on her that's anything more than gut, I'll try to take it into consideration.

My time is running low I see
I don’t have much time though to rea-
d the things that have been said of me
why are we all voting for Mackie?

TSP, from what I can understand, it seems like people are voting Mac for posting rainbow reads. I sort of fail to understand it, since when I last played here those were super popular, and others have done those in this game and not been punished for it in the same way. As I see it, they establish accountability and give people an easy record to go back to for sussing out baddies.

I probably am not the best person to explain the case since I'm so confused by it, but there ya go. I think we have better things to go on for today.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Okay everyone voting for Mac is bad I’ve solved the game.

In fairness to Epi on Nanook, the math wasn’t working well for you.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Pardon my absence, dear friends, for I‘ve been
Busy with work all week and it’s crazy.
Showing up late on Day 1 is a sin.
Do know it’s not because I am lazy.
I work for a school district and although
Buildings are closed and the students waylaid,
District staff are all essential, you know?
I’ve had to work late so vendors get paid.
Tonight and tomorrow, reading’s my goal,
Discern which of you for whom I shall vote,
And not fall into a catching-up hole.
May today a baddie hang by his throat!
But alas, this day more work must be done
For the beast called Wildcat Foundation.

If Milton could see
This sonnet
He’d probably
Throw praise on it

I’m at five with this. I’d stick to the gimmick but for the fact that I have wayyyy too much to do to stick to the gimmick.

[Sloonei]

I think I am unintentionally approaching this game differently. I can't "dig in" as Epi is calling for me to do, at least not in the way that I normally would. I do not quite know how my methodology will shake out in this game. It's going to be something different. I thrive on generating as much conversation as possible, and this game is designed to deter that exact thing. I need to take a more backseat analytical approach, probably. I'm out of my element.

Also I'm disappointed that Epi of all people didn't catch my entry joke. It was too obscure, i guess.

I'll probably vote for Mac. Or not. I don't know. speedchuck is uninspired. Maybe I'll go back to tony.

[TonyStarkPrime]

I think I am unintentionally approaching this game differently. I can't "dig in" as Epi is calling for me to do, at least not in the way that I normally would. I do not quite know how my methodology will shake out in this game. It's going to be something different. I thrive on generating as much conversation as possible, and this game is designed to deter that exact thing. I need to take a more backseat analytical approach, probably. I'm out of my element.

Also I'm disappointed that Epi of all people didn't catch my entry joke. It was too obscure, i guess.

I'll probably vote for Mac. Or not. I don't know. speedchuck is uninspired. Maybe I'll go back to tony.

Do you think Epi is town?

[G-Man]

G-Man:

He needs more time to post. He doesn't have much, but I will say this:

-Not a fan of his insistence on rhyming. Yes, it’s cheeky and fun but even I won’t encourage everyone to post solely in rhymes. Not a fan of his repetition of it. (-1)

...is strange coming from a guy who insists on practicing strange and quirky gimmicks all the time (his posts all start with a P, this time, by the way).

It's doubtful to me that someone of G-Man's quirky caliber would characterize posting in rhymes as something bad or inscrutable. We understand song lyrics just fine (well, most. We have Yes and Led Zeppelin...)

I would lynch G-Man today.

Peculiar? Yes. Hypocritical? Perhaps. In this game, there is a limit to how beneficial the rhymes are. You can fit them in here and there between prose as well. Once the benefit is over, sticking with the rhymes just impairs communication. I think it’s his apparent stubbornness to abstain from prose more so than the use of rhyme. My play experience with him is quite limited. If he’s quirky like me, then it might make sense. I lack that context. I’m voting for Nanook now so I have a vote on the board as I start ISOing the people I have little to no read on.

[Sloonei]

[VOTE: tony] aubergine for burning a post to ask a question that's already been answered twice, which would require another burned post from me to answer a third time. I made a rainbow.

I asked earlier if anyone could think of any possibilities in the ways player alignment could affect the approach to the post cap. I have a suggestion of my own: mafia players might be more careless about posts. I've been preoccupied with my total (this is 21) all day and I'm being a bit tightlipped because I don't want to risk being unable to speak at a crucial moment. A member of the mafia team might not care as much about leaving their channels open like that, so they might burn through posts more inefficiently. Tony's post above is inefficient.

I am basing this entirely off my own mindset and an apparent dichotomy stemming from that. I acknowledge it's totally unfair.

[Tangrowth]

FYI give me a few minutes and then I'll be here until EoD.

[Turnip Head]

It's establishing pressure Mr. Dougall. So what if I sheeped reads? I wanted to see where they led. I still maintain my own opinions as evidenced by my unvotes.

You're entrenching your read of me by characterizing my play in the way you are. I think your other reads look like a scummer's reads; I think your suspicion of me in particular is opportunistic.

I don't like this post, or TH's response to Mac in general. Sheeping reads to see where they lead doesn't make a great deal of sense to me, since, if someone else already has the read, in theory we'll get to see where it leads without sheeping, and it takes away responsibility from someone to make their own unique reads. Many a baddie has said "I agree with Y - we ought to lynch X to get more info. Oh, didn't work out? It was Y's idea! Get them!"

To me, unvotes are also generally a scummy look, especially if other votes have come on to the votee between the vote and unvote. It's a good way to start a lynch train without being held responsible for it.

But is any of what you described actually what's happening? Because none of that stuff is happening. You're describing a fake future.

As for sheeping being pointless... Can't get pressure on a suspect if no one agrees with the case. I back up reads that I like from fellow players even if I didn't think of them first. And I also contribute my own reads and counterpoints. I've done all of that.

I think you and I have different ideas of what works. You're telling me that my approach literally doesn't work and is scummy, and I disagree with that assessment.

Unvotes aren't scummy, imo, and for me personally, it's just a representation of my opinions being fluid, and I sometimes vote in the moment to show where I'm at and see where it leads.

[Epignosis]

[VOTE: tony] aubergine for burning a post to ask a question that's already been answered twice, which would require another burned post from me to answer a third time. I made a rainbow.

Look at me.

Burning a post.

[Turnip Head]

Nice burn Epi!

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

DDL:

This assessment makes sense to me. Sloonei says the "useful wisdom" (as DDL called it) was a joke nobody got. In what way was it a joke?

I hate posts like these though. DDL, why are you cool with Mac?

I would not lynch DDL today.

++++

dunya:

I had an early negative Day 1 impression, but that's gone. dunya laying into Mac and Sloonei gets a thumbs up.

I would not lynch dunya today.

++++

G-Man:

He needs more time to post. He doesn't have much, but I will say this:

-Not a fan of his insistence on rhyming. Yes, it’s cheeky and fun but even I won’t encourage everyone to post solely in rhymes. Not a fan of his repetition of it. (-1)

...is strange coming from a guy who insists on practicing strange and quirky gimmicks all the time (his posts all start with a P, this time, by the way).

It's doubtful to me that someone of G-Man's quirky caliber would characterize posting in rhymes as something bad or inscrutable. We understand song lyrics just fine (well, most. We have Yes and Led Zeppelin...)

I would lynch G-Man today.

++++

M Plus 7:

My early Day 1 opinion on him was tainted by a misunderstanding of things on my part. The current involvement looks fine.

I would not lynch MP today.

++++

MacDougall:

I do agree with dunya's posts about Mac's treatment of TH.

However, two points in Mac's favor:

First, his lists look honest in the sense that I can peer through the alcohol-laced clouds and discern some progression of thought that I can understand even if I do not always agree with it.

Second Mac posted "8. Sig - Got a bit of a wobbly boot on but still think he's town. Whiny sig is usually town sig. " but still has his vote on sig. It's a small thing, but it feels sloppy rather than sinister.

I would not lynch MacDougall today.

++++

Nanook:

All I see that Nanook has said is that MP is good and that sig is bad.

I do not know why Nanook thinks these things.

Plus he said I was bad at math.

I would lynch Nanook today.

++++

nutella:

I went into this with a negative opinion but no longer have that. There are a couple of specific things that stood out (no, I won't call attention to them).

I would not lynch nutella today.

++++

Russtifinko:

Glad to see the gentle giant. How are things? How is your wife?

Russ had the same thought I did about post counts. That likely means he would have had to continue to fake that interpretation if he were bad (I would assume this would have been discussed in BTSC if he genuinely didn't understand and was bad). At times Russ sounds like a politician, but I can overlook that for now. Would scrutinize more later.

I would not lynch Russtifinko today.

++++

sig:

All I see from sig is that Mac is dumb and dunya seems to know that MP is good and is therefore bad herself.

Yet his vote is on the dumb one and not the bad one.

I would lynch sig today.

++++

Sloonei:

I do not see Sloonei really digging in here. There was an early vote for sig and now a vote for speedchuck because of a post speedchuck made that I thought was valid inquiry. To put it another way, Sloonei looks reactive rather than proactive. It smells.

I would lynch Sloonei today.

++++

speedchuck:

There isn't much there, but chuck has asked for Day 2. I'll allow it.

I would not lynch speedchuck today.

++++

TonyStarkPrime:

Eh. Tiny thing in his favor. Won't mention what it is.

I would not lynch TSP today.

++++

TurnipHead:

I would need to see more than a tangle with Mac. That said, I don't have anything particularly negative to say about the Turnip at this time.

I would not lynch TH today.

I feel even better about Epi after these reads, thanks for letting me into your head here.

Spoiler: show

@Russtifinko russti, i'm gonna peg this down to: you don't know my play style and i don't know yours. me town reading a lot of people is very normal. if you'd like to check my town game, have a look and see for yourself. saying "ok cool mps on my team" is a fun way of saying MP is a town read. i don't have to always add adjectives before town to indicate the level of towniness. i saw town mp and mentioned it. that's the bottom of it. i don't care if you're voting for me for this reason, and this is the last i'll talk about it. you're free to review my past town games for comparison to see how i do this in like, every game i've ever played in.

also unfortunately end of day is 11pm my time and i'm unavailable from 9pm until like 10.45. go figure the first time ever i have a reasonable end of day it sucks for me. i'm still around for 15 minutes, but feel pretty good about my mcdougall vote tbh. nothing he said inspired confidence in me he was town, felt like the hole he was digging got bigger and bigger.

dunya, totally agree we could be misunderstanding each other. But IMO, you OMGUSing me and then when I came back at you immediately dropping the OMGUS and writing about the person with the most votes is pingy as all hell. My issue isn't that you're town reading people, it's that you cozied up to MP after townreading him. As I said, my memory of his meta is that he's a little susceptible to that, at least early (no offense MP). He's also usually a forceful town voice, so if I were a baddie, I'd damn sure want to be his friend. So this is very specifically aboutt he interaction between the two of you, and then your reaction to me pointing it out, rather than some problem with your approach to the game of mafia.

I'll try to keep an open mind about this, especially since 4-5 people seem to feel good about you, but I think at every stage your reaction has looked worse and worse to me. I would love others to weigh in on if they see her moves the same way I do or what (beyond 'gut') makes anyone think she's not a good candidate.

Get on board with me dougall. If you're town you know we can work together. I am 100% here for that. If you're bad you'll want to keep me hamstrung.

Wait....so if Mac doesn't agree with you, he's bad, and not just misunderstanding you? Can you explain how that works, especially since you said you're easily misunderstood?

I would say you've misunderstood my intent here Russti. I'm telling Mac that if he's town I'm here to solve the game together. Surely he can see the merit in that plan.

Ok, fair enough. Your other posts ping me though:

It's establishing pressure Mr. Dougall. So what if I sheeped reads? I wanted to see where they led. I still maintain my own opinions as evidenced by my unvotes.

You're entrenching your read of me by characterizing my play in the way you are. I think your other reads look like a scummer's reads; I think your suspicion of me in particular is opportunistic.

I don't like this post, or TH's response to Mac in general. Sheeping reads to see where they lead doesn't make a great deal of sense to me, since, if someone else already has the read, in theory we'll get to see where it leads without sheeping, and it takes away responsibility from someone to make their own unique reads. Many a baddie has said "I agree with Y - we ought to lynch X to get more info. Oh, didn't work out? It was Y's idea! Get them!"

To me, unvotes are also generally a scummy look, especially if other votes have come on to the votee between the vote and unvote. It's a good way to start a lynch train without being held responsible for it.

Lack of accountability is the primary tool baddies use to get out of being lynched the longer a game goes. The more i read this, the more it sounds like TH is explaining baddie moves but saying they're civ moves.

TH is now my #2 suspect, and I would change my vote to him if it will matter in the final poll. I still prefer dunya though.

(17)

smh @ mac recklessly hitting his post cap. RIP. He's town.

I'm not inspired by TH's responses to Mac. I get that TH has been "misunderstood" as a townie before but I don't get nearly the same sense from them this game that I often do. Their reads feel much more.. idk, manufactured somehow. maybe I'm just not following their godlike intuitive thought processes, but I feel so strongly that they're wrong about Mac that I'm not inclined to believe it's a real read.

I feel the opposite: to me that's pingy. Especially considering he seems to be a candidate for lynch today and a lot of his recent posts were short. I was reading Mac's scumhunting efforts today as sincere and don't understand why he's seemingly being punished for posting comprehensive reads - I thought that was what we're supposed to be doing?? So I still wouldn't lynch him over this D1, but it's worth keeping in mind for the future assuming he survives.

It's a bit reductive of me to call my read on dunya gut... but I'm having trouble elaborating. She's playing entirely within her modus operandi and what she thinks is best for town, and I believe she's being genuine while doing so. I hope that makes sense.

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: tony] aubergine for burning a post to ask a question that's already been answered twice, which would require another burned post from me to answer a third time. I made a rainbow.

I asked earlier if anyone could think of any possibilities in the ways player alignment could affect the approach to the post cap. I have a suggestion of my own: mafia players might be more careless about posts. I've been preoccupied with my total (this is 21) all day and I'm being a bit tightlipped because I don't want to risk being unable to speak at a crucial moment. A member of the mafia team might not care as much about leaving their channels open like that, so they might burn through posts more inefficiently. Tony's post above is inefficient.

I am basing this entirely off my own mindset and an apparent dichotomy stemming from that. I acknowledge it's totally unfair.

I think it really just depends on the person though, doesn't it? Even with how anal I can be, I'll admit I lost track of my posts today even if I didn't want to.

[Tangrowth]

I do think the back and forths Russ has had with dunya and Turnip Head separately qualify as some sort of culture and/or mindset clash. It's hard to discern anything AI from it all.

[Tangrowth]

Dammit, I keep forgetting to say things.

I'm not really happy with these wagons, and I have a sinking feeling about most of them. I guess I can see where people are coming from on Sloonei, but I don't want to vote there. I really don't want to vote for Mac or Turnip Head at all.

[Tangrowth]

MP7 reads

Moderate town:
Epi
dunya
Mac
Russ
Turnip

Slight town:
DDL
G-Man
Sloonei

POE:
Nanook
nutella
sig
speed
Tony

Note that I actually stopped ordering people within groups because I'm having a really difficult time with that at the moment. I don't have any strong towns because I'm feeling relatively uncertain overall, but I feel certain enough in these tiers at least.

My gut implored me to move some folks around, but I haven't really ISOed anyone due to lack of time.

I'd greatly prefer to vote one of my POE, not really sure which. Ironically I probably want to vote sig the least out of those irrationally, but looking at the current wagons I guess that's my shrug option if nothing else can be drummed up. And I suppose I'd vote a slight town to save moderate towns, but I really don't want to do that.