The Syndicate

hey [mention]novaselinenever[/mention], did you have any guesses who the scum team was

thanks the banner. i have quite a few of them but sigs are the worst. #teamneverputasig

Have fun quizzing. Night night.

Yea sorry Golden. You made me nervous and despite townreading me at the time cos I took offence at Mac calling me a typical bussrr when I'm bad, I know you could change your mind easily.

But whoever said I chose to kill Epi (Marmot I think) I didn't. That was speed actually.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 9:03 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 9:01 pm I'm too sleepy
It's 3am. Jay hates Greece

Is there a single time for a pop quiz that works for North Americans, Europeans, and Aussie/Kiwis? Serious question, because I'll do it.

Any time before 9pm est like 7pm even I'm 6 hours ahead of u.

I'm too sleepy
It's 3am. Jay hates Greece

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 8:08 pm Thanks everyone for playing my game. I understand it’s a pretty specific theme which might not attract the most interest, so I hope it was more than a robotic Mafia experience.

thanks for the game but not your obvious American favoritism

shout out to nova for picking the scum team almost immediately despite being one of the pushes that got colin lynched

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 8:04 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 7:20 pm i am never accusing jack again, no matter what, i'm never right about him.

I try telling people every game that I’m always town but nobody listens.

didnt you feel the first 3p was going scum? i read the chat and I felt it.

i was really shocked you picked town tbh after giving us the extra kill.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 8:01 pm so quin being indie was actually just a complete coincidence?

MP wouldn't let him in

oh yeah, the original scumteam was 3/4 RYMers woop woop.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 7:23 pm @dunya

You kicked my butt and my hat is off to you.

nah, you played a great game. i still cant understand how you caught speed

Quin wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 7:42 pm guys I told you dunya was bad but nooooooooo

you were on my team, doofus.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 7:51 pm Later tonight it will be time for the pop quiz. If you want a bonus banner, be here at 9 PM EST.

thats not fair for europe ok? so inconsiderate.

had a great time with speed and colin and my longest partner in crime, sloonei. they really picked up my slack when i was mia. disappointed colin got lynched on day 2, speed had literally just given him that extra kill jack traded us. and we didn't use it.

i hate being scum, and I need a break because this is the third scum role I draw in a row. but this was a dream team and town was always so close in the beginning. we thought we had out asses handed to us several times tbh.

Scotty wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 7:21 pm Wow. Good game Persians. Dunya and Sloonei both coming in with the “im not caught up and hate being behind don’t lynch me even though I’m not all there” approach. Totally worked!

it wasn't a strategy, I really didn't have time to catch up and was feeling frustrated with myself. I was close to getting replaced, but I worried if I did that people would policy lynch me since last time I had to get replaced I was scum. I told everyone before I had my rolecard I would be in Paris from the 24th april till 4th of may and did the best I could. In addition to working 12-15hrs every day, my dad was admitted to hospital twice during my time there and I had to be with him, so I had some heavy real life shit to deal with and ISOs and mafia weren't really a priority, sorry.

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 7:09 pm My win percentage is garbage and there's no resolving that.

I think MP had the worst percentage and he's one of the best players so I don't think it means much except you probably play a lot of games

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 6:59 pm dunya, can you please tell me why you eliminated Sloonei from your PoE?

honestly mostly gut. I've been scum with sloonei loads of times on rym. actually, he had a reputation like speed on here where he always drew scum roles, it wasn't a joke. I was anxious of early sloonei when it seemed like he wasnt following up on his questions and asking open ended questions for the sake of appearing to engage in discussion and theorize with people. but y'know, i'm gonna peg that one under "he had a busy schedule outside of mafia" because since i've been reengaged in the game after paris, I've seen town sloonei and he reminds me a lot of seinfeld sloonei.

also, scum sloonei wouldn't have refused to budge on jack on day 8 when me, kyle and TH were willing to lynch him. that kind of eliminated all resistance I had from town reading sloonei. unless sloonei and jack are w/w which i think is like 10% chance of that and i never considered it so it must not be, I am sure I know scum sloonei watches thread progression and if he sees a mislynch with 3 people drawn to it this late in the game, he isn't going to oppose it and oppose it with a mislynch of kyle which makes him look worse even. nah. gut says town, i'm gonna listen to instinct.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 6:41 pm It's all about win percentage.

i agree. i wish i never played image mafia.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 6:54 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 6:05 pm so those are your final reads. you're not even going to try and look into wolbre/nova? or even daisy and sloonei?

oh well. i tried to get people engaged.

Why are you accusing me of never having looked at these people?

why are you so defensive? i'm saying you should re-look into everyone and stop tunneling. and show ur work

jay can we pls skip the nightphase and move onto day 9? i'll give you a huge kiss?

if it's endgame after this night phase...i'm really sorry I didn't make the wolbre/nova connection earlier guys. it's on me, I defended nova way too much when he was getting heat left and right and we could have lynched him earlier. I was too fixated on how no one would bus Colin that I completely missed what happened when wolbre/nova were trying to get sloonei lynched instead but make it look organic and unsuspicious by both having called colin out too and doing a little fake no ur opinion is wrong and here's why scene.

i feel really dumb and anxious now

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:48 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:56 am

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:42 pm

sig wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:58 pm

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:57 pm

sig wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:52 pm Also wolbre and I are from the same original site, we've aldo played on mu once together. However, every game we've played together I've been mafia or independent so I never really bothered to learn his meta.

I don't believe he's ever been mafia and is still new to mafia as a whole compared to all of us, he's also deadily as an independent and in my opinion if he's one of those three trading guys he'll side with mafia for the lolz.

But no one asked about wolbre yet.

Good to know nonetheless. Looking forward to playing with you, wolbre!

I don't like this post its weird, light scum ping on MP

What don't you like about it ? Him calling you out ?

Given I share his perspective I am going to assume you aren't trying and are bad.

I'm trying but unlike you I don't share his perspective since I didn't like his initial post (sig's). It felt forced so I understand where MP is coming from and why he asked him that. I'd like to know why he found MP's post bad.

the first indirect interaction between wolbre/nova where nova throws some heat sig's way.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:09 pm

wolbre04 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:49 pm Later in the game if I use my ability, I message JimJammyJay about it, correct?

Why are you asking this here ? I don't want to be rude but this just feels out of place and not so innocent. You have a private chat with the host of the game, didn't you think of asking him there ?

when I iso'd nova earlier in the game, I didn't really like this because it seemed to be initiating a reason to be wary and suspicious of wolbre. as scum partners tho, this is great. they could have probably been laughing about it btsc. perfect distancing post to make it seem like they have no other way to communicate and it no longer seems out of place and hostile but not hostile, yknow what I mean?

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:36 pm

wolbre04 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:32 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:09 pm

wolbre04 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:49 pm Later in the game if I use my ability, I message JimJammyJay about it, correct?

Why are you asking this here ? I don't want to be rude but this just feels out of place and not so innocent. You have a private chat with the host of the game, didn't you think of asking him there ?

If by private chat you mean the role PM that all of us got, yes.

you're making it seem like I'm in a scum chat by using "private chat"

lol no, I'm not baiting you or implying that.

I mean the role private conversation. Questions like that can be asked there and it looks like you did.

and then a whole retraction and disclaimer. yea that was totally early distancing there from nova.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:26 am

wolbre04 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:13 am

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:08 am

wolbre04 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:03 am

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:02 am

wolbre04 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:59 am

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:57 am

It was really aggressive. He accused me of not wanting to bother analyze posts and I don't know where he's getting that from. I don't see a reason against Wolbre explaining his thoughts and giving the analysis of Sloonei's posts that lead him to believe that. It's standard procedure.

There's really no reason for me to explain anything further beyond "Sloonei isn't pure mafia. He might be 3p aligned mafia or regular town" at the moment. Night actions told me so and I'm confident in myself

You need to read those rules.

It's obvious in the thread based on who died imo and who is trading

OK sorry it just looked like you were infodumping but you should make sure you don't do anything that looks like it might be infodumping too.

Glad it wasn't but in any event I've slowly been leaning towards a Colin vote and it might be where I end up. We'll see.

Sorry about that, I was trying to say that based on the stuff leading up to epi's death and this day, I don't think Sloonei would be a worthwhile lynch, but that's just me. I'm far less experienced than 99% of you so it's probably better to just listen to someone else

All right, so here's where we disagree. I think that his lynch is very worthwhile and I found some of his interactions and the also the lack of them with certain players, very interesting. I think he has more scum team compatibility than Colin and thus his flip gives a lot of info.

I also sense a certain resistance to his lynch even though most agree with Mac's case on him. The same can't be said for Colin's lynch. For example Scotty didn't see much of a case against Colin and all of a sudden he sees Colin guilty with each post. Mac who made the case against Sloonei is also voting Colin. You defending him.

Experience can be overrated sometimes. It shouldn't stop anyone from listening to you if your arguments are sound.

I still haven't decided between the two but leaning Sloonei now.

wolbre defending sloonei and calling for colin's lynch, which nova encouraged night 1, and then woop a little flip here while nova pushes sloonei's lynch instead of colin.

and look at this, after the colin flip the only post he mentions wolbre is a post asking sloonei for his opinion on wolbre. and that's it.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 7:26 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 7:22 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 7:21 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 7:19 pm wolbre04 get in here.

What do you make of change of stance regarding Sig's original meta info on him ?

I do not know what you are referring to, but I had an early town read on wolbre and haven't looked back.

Sig put him down as someone who would side with Mafia if he was an Independent for fun. Wolbree agreed with that assessment D1.

Earlier this dp, Wolbree mentioned that if he was a Independent, he would never side with Mafia.

he doesn't even follow up with sloonei after sloonei answers him.

strong w/w possibility for wolbre and nova.

look how easy Colin's lynch was. look how easy speed's lynch was.

maybe it is that easy at this point. if I die, please please lynch one of wolbre/nova. do it for me and Kyle no matter what anyone else convinces you.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 11:21 am Sorry kyle and everyone else. I needed to take some time away from this thing after that flip. I’m lost. I can see wolbre as scum but then he also has a partner and I don’t know who that will be. The gun to head answer is nova but that, again, just feels easy. I don’t know if i’ll have tome for serious digging during the night phase. But as of right now I’m cool with lynching wolbre and open speculation about everybody else.

what has been easy about lynching nova this game?

we're down to 3 townies left, of course POE is a lot easier at this point; it's clear who's town aligned and who isn't.

remember when kyle only cared about having fun. remember when kyle used to mock me and jay for playing for the win. remember those days?

don't worry Kyle, we have this.

i remember scum nova in image mafia where he seemed pretty inactive itt but was talking to us a couple times a day bts.

my theory is wolbre is the last active scum and nova is his teammate. nova is logging in enough to follow and submit night actions and probably contribute bts but isn't posting anything since may 5 except apologize for inactivity in 2 or 3 posts. that's 11 days of inactivity.

civilians lose 4/5 times when the conversation stops revolving and they become fixated on one theory. as long as everyone remains a suspect then new things can develop, and scum team is fucked. active civs with shifty opinions are every scum team's nightmare.

quit being fixated that wolbre is 3p. he's did not indy slip. he doesn't know anyone in this game except sig. he couldn't have guessed the identities of Sloonei and Quin because indy btsc is anonymous. he's riding the assumption he indie slipped to the finish line. wake up.

imagine jack planning on bussing speed from day 1--something totally out of character and meta for him that he plans to specifically use his non-bussing history as a defence. it's possible.

imagine sloonei jumping in with his usual supersloon meta to hide his scumminess and just flew under everyone's radars. it's possible.

imagine daisy being the inactive scum partner to one other and has flown under everyone's radars. it's possible.

imagine nova bussing colin and drifting mia like his usual scum meta of laying low. it's likely.

imagine TH IGaFing the whole game through with sprinkles of opinions here and there and a fake fixation on Jack. it's possible.

so those are your final reads. you're not even going to try and look into wolbre/nova? or even daisy and sloonei?

oh well. i tried to get people engaged.

since TH has the right to brag if me and jack flip scum

I have the right to call out TH as never being able to read me when it doesn't happen and also, I want 200 pushups.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 5:45 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 5:21 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 7:23 am It's like I'm running in slo-mo towards the light as the tunnel collapses around me

what does that mean?

if you're hell bent on jack being scum, who's his teammate?

It means I'm being dramatic because I'm a bored and lonely lil turnip.

As for who is Jack's teammate... well my dear... I am certain that it is YOU yes yes yes

oh right, how could I have forgotten my scummate.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 7:23 am It's like I'm running in slo-mo towards the light as the tunnel collapses around me

what does that mean?

if you're hell bent on jack being scum, who's his teammate?

so, wolbre hasn't posted anything new. nova is lurking.

anyone got any better leads on scum before eon? wish everyone would chip in.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 8:31 am To clarify, I mean “more bad than TH.”

I trust Dunya completely and I trust her more on Wolbre than my own evaluations.

i hope you're not pulling a mac on jay in ass class on me, Jack. it will be the end of our mafia friendship.

[mention]Spacedaisy[/mention] I know it's night, but if you have time, please let me know who you feel could be bad as we reach the most critical vote next phase. we're all intuitively town reading you so even if you're not caught up, just pick the last page of everyone's ISO and wing it on your intuition with a GTH read.

I think we should all make an effort since one of us is going to die tonight and we all have SOME info from our night powers that maybe hasn't become extremely clear because of info dumping. but by sharing our reads, after your role flips if you die tonight, we can connect the dots and be in a better position.

also let's not make any 3p assumptions today or noarrowing it down or putting people in boxes. everyone can be 3p. let's all be 3p. don't make this easier on the scum team to choose between us!

gonna iso nova and highlight compatibility with a scum wolbre / speed and Colin. I think wolbre is definitely bad now, and out of the remaining players, and from his iso, nova makes most sense as his teammate. if I die tonight (just remember sig in assclass after he scum read wolbre).

I also want to do some cross reference comps between wolbre here and wolbre in ass class. I started doing that yesterday and noticed he referred to someone in ass class as "funky". The word is set in my mind because I don't think I've ever seen someone use it before. and yea it definitely set off the "that's what he said to someone here" alert. and here it is. it was a defence of his NOU vote on Epi. sorry, but calling someone's play "funky" seems like a really vague and noncommittal way of throwing shade. and yea, that's all I got cos I passed out from exhaustion of seeing the winners of ass class stroke each other's......egos.....so much ;p anyway, what's funny is sig was killed over there after voicing suspicion on wolbre. epi voices wolbre suspicion over here....and also gets killed n1. I know, major coincidence. how likely is it. but yea, up until now, apart from Epi, everyone's called wolbre 3p and he was riding it out and building on it with his further accidental not real indie slips like outing his teammates or promising Mac that when he chose sides he'd pick athens or sparta. COME ON MAN.

I wish I could vote right now. I'd vote to lynch wolbre and I haven't even dug in too deep yet.

jack - kyle flipped town.

where does this put your wolbre scum read? higher or below TH?

it's not over yet, right now we're 3 town, 2 3ps and 2 scum.

if the 3ps both aligned with us, we still have tomorrow's votes in our favor. if 1 3p aligned with scum and 1 with us, we still have votes in our favor. if both 3ps aligned with scum, honestly, we can still swing this because the 3ps' guesses to who the scum are are as good as ours.

we'll really hit gold if the scum kill a 3p tonight instead of town and then we can lynch wolbre and nova and win this shit.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 7:03 pm the Kyle you know will do whatever he can to avoid hard work up to and including tricking other people into doing it for them through flattery :0

I only do my own work when it's necessary.

I don't believe this

I'll never hot potato on anyone in my life. record this quote and use it against me any time you feel like it. NEVER.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 6:56 pm @dunya
@Sloonei
@Marmot

Gth read on TH please.

why did you ask us to do this in the last few minutes of the day? were you seriously considering switching to TH??

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 7:01 pm @dunya change to wolbre

I'm already on wolbre...

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 6:58 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 6:53 pmdo you think you've played like your usual civ self in this game, Kyle?

dunya i don't care about that at all

i set out to play this game in a way that was more fun for me and less needlessly stressful (and thusly less anxiety inducing in the long term) and i think i accomplished that, other than i guess, specifically this part of the game, where you're trying to kill me for it.

ok...is this more stressful cos you're bad?

i'm sorry if we stressed you.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 6:56 pm @dunya
@Sloonei
@Marmot

Gth read on TH please.

3p

Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:44 pm i don't feel like reading rn

why should i vote for Sloonei over Colin or likewise why Colin over Sloonei?

so...I feel like this is the 5th or 6th time I've read "I can't catch up" "I wont bother catching up" "I don't feel like reading" from Kyle.

and every time he's asking other people for opinions and summaries and kinda latches on.

the kyle I know does his own digging and theorizing and makes connections or observations no one's really thought of. :/

is this what burn out looks like

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 6:49 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 6:22 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 6:17 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 6:11 pm

wolbre04 wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 5:10 pm I'm fine dying or having Kyle die. I think he is scum, you think I am scum, but I am town.
Lynching myself will clear me from your muddy player list and help for clarity

Fucking why? It’s likely lylo. There are no players who should be okay being lynched. You should be fighting tooth and nail to save yourself.

@Kylemii
You too.

If a townie or town aligned neutral decides to be lynched and we lose tonight, you will go down in Jack’s hall of shame, like the jester who voted when there were 3 players left.

kind of a gross thing to say when you pushed my lynch more than anyone. I defended myself plenty, you ignored most of it. take responsibility for your own actions and do better next time and I'll try to do the same.

No.

I’m doing my damned best. If I’m right, you can ask no more of me so I can and perhaps need to do exactly what I’m doing.

If you’re town, you know we’re heading down the wrong path and if we lose because you give up, that’s on you.

Gimmie all your reads, all your tinfoils, all your assumptions.

I know. I believe you when you say that, because you say the exact same thing every time you try to mislynch me and i give up because you're exhausting to debate with. So take this one as a learning opportunity and accept that you don't know how to read me, so you can try to be better at it in the future. and I swear I'm not saying this in a passive aggressive "you made me die, you jerk" way. I just legitimately wish you'd put effort into learning my meta and playstyle.

And I already told you I can't post much rn cus I'm out shopping, I've posted my thoughts, I'll try to post more, and recap my thoughts when I get back in the car, for posterity sake I guess.

do you think you've played like your usual civ self in this game, Kyle?

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:28 pm

Dom wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:22 pm Kyle, why did you question Golden's mafia history?

cus the information wasn't readily available in a public format, asking him about it was quicker than looking myself.

again, I feel disconnected from this reasoning. like, it's not authentic...it's just there.

there were 3 other players. TH, who he hadn't played with in ages (like Golden), Choutas (who he had never played with) and wolbre. he completely singled out golden because and did what kyle does to fall within meta but i don't think he tried really hard because well, he was faking it this time and didn't have to really analyze to figure out people's alignments.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:45 pm @Golden what's ur recent history? did u play/host many games while i wasn't around

first thing that pinged me early on from Kyle was that he asked Golden questions but didn't bother getting info from Choutas or wolbre who he had never played with, or ask TH some questions (someone who like Golden he hadn't played with in ages).

Kyle's meta is to be inquisitive and he does it in both alliances, but I felt like he really didn't follow up too much early in the game (and I know I called him out on it). Sloonei mentioned today that Kyle, even in GoC, claimed to be "tired", so maybe Kyle's just tired. he said something similar to me when I called him out on a change of playstyle...how he's trying to keep the game fun and light for himself. It's a strange position tbh, unless something has been weighing Kyle down in these games: i.e. added stress of being scum.

see below:

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:20 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:08 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:46 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:34 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:28 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:46 am

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:43 am

@JaggedJimmyJay clarification question, what is meant here by neutralize?

Defeat.

that's not what i asked :/

in the context of this game does neutralize mean get rid of all of? in order to achieve the secret special bonus victory does that require 100% death of the alternative town faction or does it just require a numerical majority.

>:[

Kyle, how will this help you? Why are you giving mr potato head eyes to the host

knowing and understanding the basic mechanics of the game is important to me, the potato head eyes are in response to the wretched infernal shruggy boy

if special victory+ requires only having a basic majority (i.e. just having one more guy than the other guys have at the end of the game) then that wouldn't be so bad. if victory+ requires all of the other side to be lynched then it would be impractical to pursue in any way.

as it is, i don't see that mechanic as being worth paying attention to

this is the kind of post I expect from Kyle. not the explanation on why he asked what he did but like the whole game mechanic theorizing. to claim that it tires him out or makes the game less fun, or whatever, just seems really odd and out of character for kyle. I felt the whole exchange with scotty and his response was so forced and like he had to make an effort to explain himself rather than explaining himself effortlessly because his intentions are very open and easy to read.

just get really bad vibes from kyle the whole game re: these points and what I consider a large part of how I town read him meta-wise.

oh look, here's a post I made on Day 1 about Kyle

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:10 pm yeah I'm kinda stumped by Kyle's ISO. he's literally only addressed Golden and JJJ so far and answered one question from Scotty.

There's a couple more players he's never played with...I'd have expected him to ask them some questions (Choutas, wolbre) and he's not played with Turnip Head for ages too..why isn't he asking him the same questions?

and Kyle later addresses wolbre and Choutas after I make that observation.

---

I'm gonna post this now and keep posting thoughts till eod as I go through the ISO. I don't wanna address points that Jack has already brought up about Kyle (2/3 I found compelling), so I'm trying to bring different angles into this atm with the time I have.

sorry i'm slow guys, i'm just really hating isoing people these days.. :/

actually, I pointed out it was too clean.