The Syndicate

iaafr wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:50 pm alison / tutuu is a civ on civ conflict

i can tell by the pixels

iaafr wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:03 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:01 pm

iaafr wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:59 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:59 pm

iaafr wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:58 pm i just reread the entire thread and wow im actually pretty scummy wonder how many people are scumreading me

I know I am.

0 / 2 you got a third?

Why is tutuu town?

esoteric reasoning that i care not to spell out at this point in time

apologies

you may continue to tunnel tutuu and i will no longer intefere though, if that's what you'd like

iaafr wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:08 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:05 pm "Tunnel" is an interesting choice of words, given that I've made one post calling tutuu scum, one post explaining the read, and then another post explaining that the read is serious.

[VOTE: iaafr] aubergine

my word choice is a bit imprecise sometimes and i use connotations that dont quite work

but i got a vibe of "tunnel" from my perceived strength of the scumread there. didn't mean to imply it was persisting a long time. how's bad word choice ai though?

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:06 pm

iaafr wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:58 pm i just reread the entire thread and wow im actually pretty scummy wonder how many people are scumreading me

actually i disagree? i thought u were kinda towny

why did u scumread yourself? i wanna argue your read on yourself

my rhythms too even, the "nerdlean" post was a bit scummy in itself (kinda forced joke feel adjacent to actual read but not actual read), responding to too many people and therefore exuding nervous energy

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:21 pm

Spoiler: show

Amy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:06 am

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:32 pm I actually think iaafr thinking his own play is scummy, and scrutinizing it, and half-jokingly(?) calling it scummy is pretty sketchy. On average, wolves tend to be far more aware of how scummy their posts look (with some exceptions), and they often see those posts as scummier than average because they're biased knowing their own alignment. Scumreading his own play is I think a pre-emptive thing to get ahead of people who might want to call those posts out and make them feel silly for doing so.

i want it known that he did something similar in his last non-mash towngame and kept it up for all of d1. this is NAI for him

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:34 pm I agree with this yeah, I think he's deffo in wolfrange so far

and you should know this, because you were in that game. what's different about him here?

3/30

Amy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:10 am

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:52 pm 24/30

tr on tim, i think its towny that he spent a post saying "wait did X rly do Y?" instead of taking 5 secs to scroll back and see for it himself. and im kinda feeling like he still didnt bother going back to look for it, he just assumed what im saying is true and went along with it and made a joke

this is a bad read on tim, because tim is a player who's generally extremely cognizant of his own posting and able to deliberately fake stuff like this as a wolf quite well

that said i think it's kind of villagery to make this read, maybe?

i'm torn on tutuu in general because i think the way they kinda jumped us out of shitposting phase by taking a jokepost seriously is something i've seen both alignments do and i'm not entirely sure which one i'm looking at here. gth probably v off tone but far from sure

4/30

Amy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:14 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:09 am If we're reading alignment based on avatars then a Your Name avatar has to be lock town right? Like that movie is on par with Madoka Magica.

Anyway even if the "call your own play scummy" thing is NAI for him I think the rest of my points are still valid.

i haven't seen madoka magica but i'm already pocketed gg

i think your disliking the use of the word "tunnel" there is again somewhat NAI for iaafr; i think there may be something to your point on potential TMI on you/tutuu but i'm not willing to go anywhere near that until people start flipping, i think

idk i guess i just struggle to see anything iaafr's really done so far as being anything other than "iaafr being iaafr"

5/30

Amy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:17 am i guess honestly given that it's d0 and doesn't matter, and that the threadstate mostly reflects this, it's probably lightly villagery in a vacuum for anyone to be actually Playing The Game at this point

which i think looks best for alison because she's taking it the most seriously

6/30

Amy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:18 am

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:15 am Premature. Not bad. It was reasoned. Amy is correct that there was absolutely nothing outside my wolf range there, but as long as you give solid reasoning you aren't making a bad read. Just don't count it as a conclusion.

yeah perhaps better phrasing would have been "bad way to read tim specifically"

side note ctrl+i not italicizing on this forum is yet another reason why phpBB needs to go away

7/30

Amy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:23 am

protocultures wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:23 am framing their introduction
background state of mind
this person comes to meme
and be excused for this mentality later in the game

do you not find it scummy?

it's a copypasta. i didn't write it

amy posts enclosed

these are all scum posts

first is scum post, meme copypasta that's not particularly original or fitting is >rand scum (based on experience with wiggles doing it once as scum, n=1 reads goat)

everything amy's posted so far is easily postable as scum. like scarily easily. i can't find a single thought by amy that makes me want to town her, and i don't think she'd be QUITE this underwhelming as town. think she's just low wim scum because she didn't particularly want to rand scum here and can't find the motivation to put her pride on the line by trying particularly hard. clarifying that the first post was a meme (and therefore invalid reason to sus) is a bit on the flatly defensive side; that sort of sus couldve been handled in a lot more playful manner (this point might be the weakest). amy is just completely transparently joyless in this game, and i think that's because of her alignment.

might not be a particularly convincing case, but i feel pretty good about this scumread.

sorry if wrong, this is my d1 tunnel.

[VOTE: Amy] aubergine

townreads:

nutella, tutuu, protocultures

townleans:

tim, scirrus (guttest of gut), werewolfhunter, alison, long con

null/scumlean/flipfloppy:

nanook, radishes, benson, dyslexicon, coliniscool, kza, colonialbob

scumread:

amy



not giving deep reasons for any reads except the scumcase i wrote on amy for now. will start writing towncases sometime during the day, after more stuff has happened.

tempted to put benson in townleans, but... just a bit sketched by a few little things. similar thoughts with nanook/radishes. the rest of the people in that group don't seem to be playing to be read any townier than null regardless of actual alignment, so i feel like they're pretty understandable placements. also slightly sketched by alison, but i mildly mindmelded with the early tutuu sus (before i decided it was civ/civ) and thats enough to make me gth her town.

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:44 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:43 am Three town (IAAFR tutuu radishes) down, too many more to go

just gonna note randomly that this pinged me as potentially scum with radishes (because i dont think radishes has been nearly as towny as me and tutuu and this kind of early declaration of 3 townreads comes from scum a decent amount) but this is like

an extremely weak read

posting it anyway because why not

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:45 pm that said i was flattered by nanook calling me clear until d3 or whatever it was he said so im daypassing him probs

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:49 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:48 pm

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:45 pm that said i was flattered by nanook calling me clear until d3 or whatever it was he said so im daypassing him probs

Clear until f3!

aight; deal; likewise

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:57 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:56 pm Okay, so didn't overestimate the Master Radishes. Will keep in mind.

Feelies on Alison and Tutuu based on their initial clash being too attention grabby to be w/w, and Tutuu's reaction being too calm to be a wolf randomly tunneled by a villager friend.

Any thoughts here?

my townread on tutuu is essentially for depth and transparency of thoughts that felt genuine and idiosyncratic

my townlean on alison is because i also thought tutuu gave mild scum vibes early and alison's readiness to jump on her susses and get into the game immediately is towny in my book

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:31 pm currently rolling through head: desire to omgus alison, wondering if amy/alison is actually a world with the blatant chainsawing

finding all of scirrus's catchup on the towny side (not even like wolfytowny, just straight towny in my book, genuine, etc)

also @Scirrus : my scum meta is i don't sandbag as scum, i try to be as towny as possible to get as good a position as possible, then i start begging my teammates to bus me and then they dont oblige and then i fizzle out d3 when i cant actually fake solving with d3 amounts of information and i just pray theres enough town/town violence for me to hide till endgame

feel free to believe or disbelieve

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:58 pm

Spoiler: show

protocultures wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:51 am Good luck, have fun all – just checking into the game to say I am present and ready. Uh, in case anyone gets suspicious that I am not saying “look at me I am town”, here you go – its totally NAI for me as a player. I am hard to read if you haven’t played with me before, I am still sometimes hard to read if you have – suggest you sheep their reads on me for first few days if I confuse you. Does anyone know how I can keep track of daily postcount? Even on day 0, I have mafia reads on people.

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:28 pm im innocent town thats all i know

Found the mafia.

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:35 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:33 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:32 pm Pretty fucked up that I went to the trouble to get into this game with tutuu just to have her roll scum.

[VOTE: tutuu] aubergine

WOW WTF

Town tutuu D0: is excited to play the game, tells all the people she likes to play with how much she wants to play with them, pre-emptively townreads people based on town and/or enthusiasm so she can start forming a towncore of people she trusts.

Scum tutuu D0: I'm TOWN everyone. I'm innocent TOWN. Have I mentioned I'm TOWN?

MOOD

but consider

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:42 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:41 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:38 pm well i wasnt like jumping up and down but i was lowkey pleasant sensation from seeing i rolled town and then i tried to talk to ppl but they were all friends in between themselves and they were talking to each other and i didnt know how to interject without being too awkward so i just said the stuff i said in case someone wanted to maybe start a conversation with me or something

Let's have a conversation, then. How did you feel when you got your scum role card from the host? Also what do you think about your teammates? Do you think you'll work well with them, or is bussing on your mind already?

SHUT UP ALISON

im about to watch this movie u recommended btw. kung fu hustle. u said its very funny

“SHUT UP ALISON” is something Tutuu likely says if they are in scumchat together. Its too angry for town Tutuu to say to Alison. They are besties.

Amy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:21 pm I am so supremely confident in my abilities, and so thunderously calm + relaxed, that I will make a single irrelevant post at SOD then peace out for hours on end. I won't do anything villagery, I won't make any reads, I'll make 29 shitposts over the next 23 hours, then once D1 rolls around I'll make an unspecified number of additional shitposts. No cogent thought will escape these handsome lips. I will be illogical, haphazard, superfluous, inessential, pointless, redundant, uncalled for, unwarranted, unjustified, and gratuitous. The effen theorem will catch me with my pants betwixt my ankles. I'll vote off-wagon, talk about random nonsense, and make inappropriate japes concerning my relation to wolfchat. I am preemptively declaring any responses to this post "fair enough". I'll complain about a lack of WIM, the cause of which is nebuluous, obscure, and entirely insufficient. I will fabricate excuses and pretend I am busy to avoid posting in this thread, when in fact I will be watching cartoons and eating cheeto puffs in my underwear. More specifically, black boxer-briefs. You can't stop me. You can't misyeet me. You're powerless. I laugh in your face. I'm a villager, therefore I can do whatever the fuck I want. Go cry in wolfchat, you big baby. While you're poring over the thread, searching for any clue at all to help you in the seer hunt, know that I am still watching those cartoons and eating those cheeto puffs, nary a care in the world. My armpits are bone dry. I'm a villager, what are you going to do about it? Nothing; you will do nothing about it, because that's all you can do. Ligma. What's ligma? Ligma balls.

[VOTE: Sleep] aubergine

Found another mafia

Also, why are people voting on Day 0? isnt this a meet and greet but nothing happens?

This is my first closed forum game. Second forum game ever (have one more in progress). I have never rolled mafia in forum, so theres no baseline to look for.

re: protocultures

honestly this is just a really towny post and i immediately wanted to locktown proto for it alone, with extremely limited meta (skimmed space invaders)

the scumreads feel good, not overjustified, just real. this dude has 3 real scumreads off the bat. scum who can post like this are omega rare.

consider this post my towncase on protocultures.

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:25 pm i think it's fair to not have nutella as town

ive wavered a bit but i decided her progression on me was more towny than not

probably the weakest in my top tier but theres something about the way shes forming thoughts that feels like i should just town her and not question it too much

but yeah not begrudging not having that read, idk.

(also possibly spewed v by amy hell yea preflip tunneling)

5/60

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:17 pm

Amy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:13 pm iaafr, tell me why you went from giving nutella a fairly secure townread to using her as your temporary landing spot when you wanted to unvote me in the span of 1 post?

also tell me what ran through your head when you jumped off/jumped back on in general

2/60

in the world where youre town, i could buy nutella being on you being the scummiest person expressing sus of you. benson/protocultures both seem more genuinely convinced.

i noted that i was wavery on nutella earlier. that's because one of the things you took issue with in the first round of posting (her calling me in my wolfrange) was an issue with me as well. i don't think nutella actually knows my wolfrange. i just liked that she "thought about it more" and moved me to locktown apropos of nothing. i thought that was valid progression. still could've been pockety though, and calling me still in my wolfrange was still sort of pingy.

townreads of this sort are the most precarious because i could just be being pocketed, so yeah.

jumped back on because i decided your defense post still wasnt enough for me to stop tunneling you for now. though unlike what tutuu said, i'm not really trying to pressure per se, it's just an actual scumread that may or may not change. if you think you work better sans pressure, i am perfectly willing to unvote and ignore you for up to 6h to EOD, then re-verdict you then.

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:00 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:56 pm [VOTE: iaafr] aubergine

I have a really hard time believing that you genuinely think being unmotivated in D0 is a scumtell. Also this whole "I'm going to tunnel Amy for the rest of D1" stuff looks like dropping cover for not re-evaluating or doing much else.

I guess tutuu and I found each other again. Feeling good about her this game.

i can expand a bit

amy enjoys villaging. this is my meta of amy. i consider her the type of player to naturally have lots of thoughts while reading a game, and even general exhaustion is unlikely to suppress those sorts of thoughts when she rolls villager. in that light, i think the volume + depth of thoughts she's shown so far has been lacking. i could easily be wrong, but i don't really have other strong leads rn. i still townread tim as of this moment; i don't agree with scirrus' objection to changing his mind on d0. amy's vote is essentially a nothing fearvote (or if it isn't, she's choosing not to spell out what it is so far), and while tutuu townreads that, i don't.

also the "cover for not re-evaluating or doing much else" will easily naturally be proven wrong over the course of this day regardless

won't defend the push or myself beyond this though.

iaafr wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:26 am getting more and more inclined towards nutella/tim

which i think is amyperspective aorn?

in that world scirrus is like lock town (and i really like this recent post)

iaafr wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:41 am

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:38 am

iaafr wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:26 am getting more and more inclined towards nutella/tim

which i think is amyperspective aorn?

in that world scirrus is like lock town (and i really like this recent post)

Well this is bloody inconvenient.

I just finished ISOing Nutella and figured I'd read the two new posts I haven't seen, and all of a sudden I'm supposed to be Nutella's wolf partner according to you and Scirrus is intelligently asking YOU how you arrived at Nutella as top town read.

So this is really gonna confuse things, but having just gone through her ISO how TF DID you ever have her as a top town read?

There's really nothing of substance there EXCEPT for her going along on Amy, and her progression there is grossly inconsistent.

I'll skip the whole "but wait Tim is scary so a likely partner to every wolf read on planet Earth." Let's just focus on how all of a sudden you are getting there on Nutella, because on that I am maybe right with you...but I wanna know how you got here.

scumcase goes something like she's a bit too reactive and appeasy, not high presence enough, is the limpest susser of Amy, and Alison and tutuu, my townreads, seem onto her

and I'm not sold on you being a partner or anything so I can take your name out of my worlds for now, you're not a d1 candidate to me like she is (like I said earlier, first place I look if I start to believe amy is town)

iaafr wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:08 pm moved back onto

[VOTE: Amy] aubergine even before you made that post Tim, just didn't wanna waste a post announcing it

I still kinda wanna believe in my scirrus townread being good but I'm not confident enough to want to defend

seems like amy and radishes are essentially unaligned with scirrus, I doubt their mutual pushes would be bussing or distancing

not like super confident there's wolves in there but they're the least boring viable votes

might be ok yeeting something like colin after all depending but meh gonna sit on Amy for now

tbh the towniest part of Amy's posts to me was wondering if this tunnel was revenge lol, but... yea just not sold on Amy town

iaafr wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:01 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:49 pm

iaafr wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:37 am I think if Colin's scum, I'd read his post about the scirrus Amy dichotomy as talking about two town.

which could easily be the world sure

nutella/Tim/Colin/x?

This seems extremely premature.

extremely premature is my middle name

also im back to v on nutella so w/e

my "solving" "method" is generally flipflopping until it feels right so yeah youre gonna keep getting posts like that

also finally on comp, so i am aware of what my postcount is

this is 43/60

definitely gonna run out prematurely but ill take adv of the final hour plenty its fiiiiiiine

reiterating that im not hard opposing scirrus at this point in time (havent done my reread yet) but deep down think its a miss

i am also ok with towning LC; maybe not lock, but i liked the most recent post

also ok with benson's towning of colonialbob

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:26 pm I agree more with the suspicion of Scirrus’ entrance than with the suspicion of Amy, at this point in time.

Benson wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:16 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:10 pm

Benson wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:08 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:06 pm

iaafr wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:58 pm i just reread the entire thread and wow im actually pretty scummy wonder how many people are scumreading me

actually i disagree? i thought u were kinda towny

why did u scumread yourself? i wanna argue your read on yourself

WAIT

OK, this might be wolfy.

I'm interested. Why is it wolfy?

I don't know if wanting to disagree and saying he's been towny feels natural. Like what was even towny anyways? Idk, that's obviously not a compelling argument.
But it's always easier for wolves to just pop-in to express disagreement in places where they *know* they are correct. You know?

Benson wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:44 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:33 pm 22/30

re: alison yes i understand that but i just thought it didnt make much sense to me to pre-emptively reveal your thoughts to someone you're trying to interrogate. id peronsally keep that to myself but i guess thats ujst me and i have no reason to believe this is scummy for u

re: benson i thought he was just free-flowy and trying to start conversations and stuff like that. he made the first post that broke the tone of the game from chit-chat to a serious post when he asked tims2upnothing about something that i forgot what was it but i remember thinking that i didnt think iaafr was interested the answer but he just asked to get the ball rolling at least thats the impressino i got but i didnt imemdiately say itt that i find it towny cuz i wasnt that confident but now i feel kinda cornered to say this?

edit linki (alisons's last post) i kinda agree that i also feel a bit sketched out. he could be town and that could just be humor but idk

I mean, you were confident enough to stop iaarf to tell him you disagreed and thought he was towny.
I won't push this point any further because it is very minor, but I personally don't think that felt like a genuine read.

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:48 am

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:59 am 29/30

tr on proto, i think he believes the stuff he believes. (u can call this sort of a meta read). if ur unsatisfied with this explanation u can ask me for further stuff to say

i have 2 choices for alison. 1) tr her for her enthusiasm to try to catch me scum or 2) scumread her if i put the bar a little higher and expect her to not make overly wrong reads on me. and i think her second post saying "town tutuu does X and scum tutuu does Y" was silly considering the game was like 30-40 posts in none of my friends had even posted by that point AND also the fact that she has never seen me play mafia so idk how could she say with confidence what would maf tutuu do. Despite her being wrong on both of these stuff gth i still wanna call her town. perhaps part of ot could be rock-paper-scissors fallacy (i just invented this fallacy). basically rock paper scissors is down to luck, but also not. so in this context i think that if alison rolled mafia against me this game and she saw that i was town, i think her approach wouldnt be to start by making an illogical push on me (this is the rock paper scissors). so she can b lean town

i also slightly wanna tr nanook primarily cuz he called me town and i liked it.

i read ur stuff about tim, amy, and respectfully i will disagree, ive never played with him b4 but i still think i saw a town posting town stuff, so

Reads:
tutuu
proto

tim
alison

nanook

rest

I wanted to question why you felt you absolutet needed to resolve Alison into a TR or SR, but the deliberation you go through in this post feels really towny.


On a different note: nute's flip flopping is nutty.

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:10 pm Well my break was short lived.

I needed to return to tell you all that tutuu is now added to the town whale pod. The thought progression from post to post and within each post is just so villagery, even despite the weirdness of the more recent stuff.
Alison's application to the pod is pending.

I might be getting hard pocketed but let's ignore that for now.

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:49 pm disregard everything i said. an AWP cant kill the mafia fast enough. iaafr and nutella are both mafia. give me 10 seconds and i will find the other 2

4/60

AWP?

But iaafr and nutella being w/w is the spice I needed to marinate this D1. I have no opinion on the read itself but I like it.

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:17 pm i really desire to play mafia and to get in the thick of things and u know accusations throwing around AtE OMGUS lamist wifom all of those flying over my head like a bar brawl and suddenly there's a gangster right who shoots up the bar with a tommy gun but instead of bullet it flies tunneling, fake claiming, tmi, all those good stuff

whats the hold up lets brawl already please. iaafr obv mafia. nutella obv mafia. tutuu town. proto town. alison town. tim town. beluga whale town. nanook town. radish town. amy town.

anyone who disagrees with me is confirmed member of the mafia

anyone who agrees with me and has a gun please use it to shoot someone in our poe which we all reached a consensus on based off of our town core

6/60

Lmao. Epic.

Not that I think any of this is wolfy, but your tone has changed SO much from the player at the beginning of the game. What happened? Was it just that you became more comfortable in the game and in your reads that now you want to push the areas you think are promising?

Benson wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:38 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:32 pm I actually think iaafr thinking his own play is scummy, and scrutinizing it, and half-jokingly(?) calling it scummy is pretty sketchy. On average, wolves tend to be far more aware of how scummy their posts look (with some exceptions), and they often see those posts as scummier than average because they're biased knowing their own alignment. Scumreading his own play is I think a pre-emptive thing to get ahead of people who might want to call those posts out and make them feel silly for doing so.

Normally, absolutely. But with iaafr I honestly don't know. He's rather unconventional, but I have only played with him once where he was town.

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:38 am

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:13 am

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:04 am Actually, I want to talk about proto's entrance because I'm surprised no one else is talking about that (unless I missed it). I'm talking specially about the self-conscious meta talk as the first thing they wrote.
Because on the surface it gives me super wolfy vibes, even if it was probably written by a villager *that just plays like that*. Anyone else put off by that or have a take on this?

I haven't started playing serious yet, but if I did it would be something I'd bring up too. Self-aware and some reads seem forced.

Scirrus' entrance also poor. Generic roleplay that attempts to disguise an uncomfortable thread entrance.

But I'm not playing serious yet, so I'll just have to wait to mention these thoughts until I am.

27

Well, I think this can be true; but I think you have to look at the type of player first. Because a player that is frequently scum read for doing ostensibly wolfy things as a villager will probably become over self-conscious in general. Because they obviously are worried about getting miselimed.
And I gather that this is the case, or might be. Correct me if I'm wrong.


Stop trying to not be serious while being serious imo.

I bet rabbit has 300 tabs open with the posts he's gonna make as soon as he's permitted.

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:08 pm Hi Dyslexicon! And anyone else that I haven't said anything to.

------

I hate slips but did WH slip?

WerewolfHunter wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:45 pm

WerewolfHunter wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:44 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:20 pm I didn't see a greeting post from you before that, are you sure you don't mean in the signup thread? lol

Yes, I'm pretty certain I did one

Maybe, I accidentally posted in wrong thread. Sorry about that. I was pretty certain that I had

Posted a greeting in the woofer chat instead and then thought you did that here as well?
How would you forget about that?

Idk, it's a reach for sure. Maybe the linki thing came up and she thought the post went through.

Ugh, I guess my next post may be my last for a while.

29

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:25 pm lol
I was just about to say I was concerned with Amy so far. Noticeable lack of engagement.

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:33 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:30 pm I'm not going to hard defend Amy, or anyone else at this point, but a scum case based on low motivation in a day zero is not making me jump for the torch and pitchfork either. I'll have a comprehensive reads post sometime about twenty real time hours into day one, but right now I have some first impressions at most.

I mean I have no real case on Amy. That's just an intuition read.

Send those impressions, imo.
The less well-thought-out the better.

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:45 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:39 pm

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:33 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:30 pm I'm not going to hard defend Amy, or anyone else at this point, but a scum case based on low motivation in a day zero is not making me jump for the torch and pitchfork either. I'll have a comprehensive reads post sometime about twenty real time hours into day one, but right now I have some first impressions at most.

I mean I have no real case on Amy. That's just an intuition read.

Send those impressions, imo.
The less well-thought-out the better.

I got towny feelies for you, Tutuu, Alison, Rabbit, and Nutella...mostly null on the rest of the people who posted...I'm trying to decide if what I said about Radishes is true. That was a really "towny mindset" post if he got there unconsciously...and I don't really know Radishes well enough to claim it was in his wolf range to fake like I said.

Unless you're reading that post deeper than I am, I don't see why it wouldn't be that hard for him to fake as wolf. He's a good wolf and can definitely fake a mindset like that.
That said, he generally gives me a good feeling so far.

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:58 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:56 pm Okay, so didn't overestimate the Master Radishes. Will keep in mind.

Feelies on Alison and Tutuu based on their initial clash being too attention grabby to be w/w, and Tutuu's reaction being too calm to be a wolf randomly tunneled by a villager friend.

Any thoughts here?

I think scum theater is in play, though unlikely. I agree with the latter assessment and overall I come out of D0 with a town lean on tutuu as well.

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:27 pm Regarding Amy's defense, I think it mostly doesn't change anything for me. I initially had a strong suspicious that it all felt wolfy and overly crafted and defensive, but I couldn't really justify that in words. So I don't have much else to say, other than rabbit's read sound plausible: unmotivated wolf lacked motivation to project town. I agree that Amy is probably the player that can easily fake whatever is needed to fake in the early game - and that's why I'm not pushing this much harder - but the motivation thing is a genuine tell. Like I'd 100% be less amped to be in the thread and post if I wasn't town right now. We'll see how the round unfolded. I do like the Amy is confident she'll project town before long.


Scirrus...I don't know what to say. I want to call the catch up posts wolfy but shouldn't because that probably stems from the fact that I don't particularly enjoy reading posts like that (when the quotes are sporadic, don't follow a central theme, and the responses aren't anything substantial. But I can't blame someone for not always being around to interact in real-time. Especially in this format.

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:57 am 4 wolves is what I'm assuming as well.

I have no read on rabbit admittedly. I have reasons to go in either direction but they aren't strong. I might try to ISO or something tonight.
One thing that bothered me specifically was him saying that he liked how I was staying on Amy and that it felt genuine. I can understand why you'd have reason to TR me and I don't know if that holds as one of them. Stuff like that kinda pings me as potentially non-genuine. Also starting to get paranoid pocket attempts are successfully being made (in general) but that's harder to substantiate.
Anyways, I'm on Amy and not Nutella right now for nebulous (or not) reasons. Nutella is worse by many measurements right now.

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:30 am

Scirrus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:41 am holy fuck is it 1:40

I need to go the fuck to bed

Sorry for the people who hate my posting style. I work late and I'm tired a lot and i'm slow at catching up, it's just the reality for me these days

I feel like voting MR because I disliked his "not serious" excuse while shading me and proto and his push on WH seemed opportunistic too

[VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine

I think people don't like your posting style because there is little coherency in the individual posts, making it difficult to read. Before you take that as an insult let me explain: obviously what you're saying on its own is coherently; but when you quote multiple unrelated posts from yesterday and comment on each one separately it becomes hard to follow. Like, I'm sure it's a useful exercise for yourself, but I personally can't get much out of those posts, which leads to that frustration. Sorry if that's too harsh. You can definitely keep doing your thing I don't think I'll be able to really read you properly until you put those scattered thoughts into one place and one conclusion. I mean, unless your goal is to hide behind those catch-up posts.

Scirrus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:46 am Actually I don't mind the wagons on Amy/Nutella either tbh.

Maybe it would be more productive to build these two up?

[VOTE: AMY] aubergine

Generally, I would find this towny. But when you say you're gonna do it, it kinda takes away.

Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one.

Scirrus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:47 am People that have played with Radishes before, what do you think of him so far?

I have the most experience with MR out of anyone here. I can tell you that you are justified in being suspicious right now.

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:50 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:20 pm

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:04 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:05 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:57 am Guys I just realised our host needs to start his semifinal game in like four days.

Let's go for the sweep so he won't be distracted.

I played in a game that was hosted by a champs participant during their qualifying match. They did fine and directly advanced. I have every confidence that TSP can handle this.

Besides, for wolves even a sweep takes many days and you my dear root vegetable are far from a lock town at this point.

I like the insertion of that subtle assumption into the conversation though, even if I had to reject it. Points for effort.

28

This post seems kinda serious compared to what it's responding to. Hmm.



Mafia philosophical question: is intuition or rationality more important to you when forming reads? Or is that a bad dichotomy.

God, I hope we get to the next phase and I can post tonight.

It may be far less serious than it appears.

Or it may be highly nuanced. Perhaps...

It expresses support for and confidence in the host, possibly attempting to pocket him for reasons unknown.
It fires a warning shot across the bow for Master Radishes implying that his posts will be assessed with more than just a casual level of scrutiny.
It serves to warn other players that subtle assumptions made about innocuous posts can be used to influence their subsequent reads, and that a highly evolved wolf such as Master Radishes would be if he randed wolf may use such tactics.
It also serves as fair warning that if I had randed wolf I also am a wolf of that nature so should be handled carefully.
It produces the wifom that if I HAD randed wolf I would not want townies to start thinking on such subtle levels so I would have just let it pass, so it effectively town tells me.

Or it could have just been the setup line for a joke about common root vegetables and Master Radishes. I leave it to you to determine for yourself whether to treat me as a highly nuanced player looking five layers deep into every post made, or to treat me as a happy go lucky jokester giving a day zero exactly the minimal weight that it probably deserves.

Damn. I enjoyed my time trying to figure this post out :fry:
But I think you will be handled carefully, even if you are joking.

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:34 pm I have decided to go back to just posting things that are funny since apparently no one cared about what I thought.

I care, Tim. I care.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:30 pm tutuu is town for that massive wall of text with incredibly convoluted reasoning about my alignment. Wolves don't put their mind so deep into the weeds for someone whose alignment they already know.

I'm gut reading proto town.

MR and tim have some W/W equity for a very "theater"-like interaction.

Benson seems like he's lonely and trying to reach out to people, which is town. Also Benson, my experience with proto has led me to feel absolutely no discomfort at his "self-conscious meta talk". I get why you feel suspicious about it - I had similar thoughts on iaafr. I'm just saying, from my own meta experience it's not something I'm concerned about.

Impressively accurate soul read on me, tbh.

I know I wasn't very clear, but I'm not actually suspicious of proto. I just thought their entrance was something people would consider "classically wolfy" (like MR did) on the surface, despite that not necessarily being the case. I know some players have reason to act overly self-conscious as town as well. I'm glad your meta on them supports that.

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:11 pm Eh it's a reach because we don't have private threads like on MU, it's usually only on discord, so I don't think she'd confuse it. unless maybe replying to the host pm? More likely she's talking about the signup thread.

Ah gotcha. I didn't see anything in the signup thread that would makes sense as a greeting for the game, however.
I'm really sorry if this is getting angleshooty.



Some random reads before I have to leave:

Alison - Seems comfortable being in the driver's seat right now. I have no meta on her and she self-admittedly "likes to powerwolf", but her comfort level appears villagery. Her reads are good and the progression looks genuine at least.

Nutella - Kind of comes across like she's sheeping reads/ideas and then not following through or doing much about it. I know that's a harsh oversimplification but this is the abstraction I've made from reading her posts. Need more original takes.

Kza - Admittedly, I didn't notice the epicness of his "accuracy" joke earlier, haha. But seriously, I would think that he'd be posting more actual opinions or takes or anything if he's town here. If just seems like he doesn't know what to post or how to insert himself in any of the conversations.

Well this is it. Bye bye for now.

Spoiler: show

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:29 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:18 pm

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:21 pm clarifying that the first post was a meme (and therefore invalid reason to sus) is a bit on the flatly defensive side; that sort of sus couldve been handled in a lot more playful manner (this point might be the weakest).

i mean, in my personal opinion this is a reach. i saw it as clarification for the sake of clarification, ive flatly clarified a bunch of stuff already this game i feel like (and reminder im town) altho maybe they werent flat and i just cant accurately recognize how i come off as but. mm. idk, like, ... nvm actually u do say it yourself that this point might be weakest

i like the person with the whale avatar. was it benson? i like alison's tr on him alot.

looks like im in the minority but i kind of dislike nutella? (in the sense of not townreading her obviously!). i think that shes hard to read, finding her as town in pyre mafia wasnt easy, a lot of ppl were scumreading her but i managed to do it. and in this game i feel like if she's town it's ... even harder to find her? and everyone townreading her is just making me paused. am i in the wrong here to perceive nutella this way, or am i not? that is the question

1/60

Legit lold at the whale avatar thing. Names are forgettable but beluga whales are forever.

Spoiler: show

I don't know if you saw, but I've been lightly sussing nute so far. I've towned with her once before and I feel like I found her pretty quickly because she projected well with how villagery her stream-of-conscious posting came across. The constraints of this game are certainly different but I'm not seeing those towny thoughts. Like she's mainly just agreed or disagreed with things that others are saying. But maybe it was D0 and she didn't care that much?

I think I'll force myself to break for the night so I don't waste too many posts before the round has really started.

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:51 pm Of the less prominent players, I do agree that LC looks towny. I like his entire attitude so far.
But the rest are pretty null. I've honestly forgotten the posts of players like Proto and Colin. Actually Colin did say something that pinged me, where he dismissed the Amy wagon and supported the nutella suspicions (I think). I'd want to know more about that.

Nanook I'm probably going to have trouble reading because of how he plays. I think and hope he'll do more elaborating on his reads today.

Dyslexicon popped in to say something. I said 'hi' and he didn't say hi back so he's basically confirmed mafia.

Kza, like I said, is struggling to get involved in the game. Or he really doesn't care, but I would expect more if he's town here. GIVE ME SOMETHING KAZ.

-------------------

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:44 pm the strength of her insistence on the proto meta read is rubbing me the wrong way, maybe it's too easy to call it tmi but it does kinda remind me of how i sometimes whiteknight townies as scum

OMG, finally a towny take! (Not that I agree)


Tutuu, can you help us understand the meta read and what proto has done to fit that town meta?

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:51 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:20 am I also DO do shit D1, I explicitly believe in catching mafia D1, and, most importantly, I've been doing shit on D1 this game

I only remember some vague reads that were a while ago now. Have those changed? Are there new reads? Help me read you.

------------

Amy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:00 am actually yeah huh nutella never actually makes a post about my slot between saying she buys my defense and dropping me in the PoE. talk to me about myself nut. where am i at for you

also nutella/iaafr never w/w ever, if nutella's a wolf she absolutely TMI'd him v

11/60 remembering to include these is hard but remembering my post total without them is going to be harder

Not going to quote all your posts before here are my fast thoughts before I go to work.

The reaction vote and subsequent analysis is good. It's a genuine play and I think the your conclusions are ostensibly towny. That said, you may be looking too far into what is actually there, but I can't condemn you on that.

Now the reads list: it feels super convenient that your CW ends up as top scum. But I do share suspicions with the quote above, as much as it could easily be a twtbw thing.

Finally the intuition-read: I can't articulate why exactly right - or I'm too lazy too - but almost your entire game feels very crafted and agenda-y, as opposed to something naturally flowing. That's why I'm still on your wagon.

The villager appears to pour itself down, and indeed its villageryness pours in all direction, but the stream does not run out. This pouring is linear extension: that is why its beams are called rays, because they radiate in extended lines

OK I'll stop with the dumb quotes.


Also, the nutella wagon is feeling rather "easy". Like until MR, there was no actual resistance and basically everyone was like "yup nute is scummy". Maybe her teammates are bussers and low-posters but idk.


--------

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:46 am

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:10 am MR:
I'm town by post count...in a game where we're limited to 30 per 24 hours basically?

No. Are you trying to slander my wolf game indirectly? lol

Uh, yeah, you post less as a wolf. Sorry to burst that bubble for you. Here, you’re post-capping yourself, and perhaps more specifically your posts are all game-related, which is more what I meant anyway. You’re engaged. I know you hate when I call you the t-word because you never trust me in return, but too bad. Even your handling of me here fits with your town meta.

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:10 am Your PoE is also too easy for an MR PoE tbh

What is this, CDC?

Ah feck off. You haven't even seen me wolf in a while and the difference is marginal in terms of actual post count. Like it would be something like 90% of my town posting rate and that's not something that would show up in a 60 post-per-phase capped game.

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:55 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:17 am

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:04 am @Benson you seem to be here, yes?

I'm going to go eat lunch. Leave me a summary of why nutella? I got lazy when reading the pages I missed whilst sleeping and didn't pay attention.

You didn't ask me, and I'm sort of in morning catch up over breakfast mode, but since Benluga Whale didn't mention it...

My biggest, and probably only, problem with Nutella is her Amy read. It's maybe too small a problem to justify being on a four vote wagon but at this early stage it is more than I have on anyone else and she has thus far offered no explanation.

If you ISO her and specifically jump out for context when her Amy views shift there never seems to be any good reason...and her view shifts A LOT. It reads to me as (possibly) "is there really a chance to mischop a strong player like Amy day one here?" If Amy is not a wolf I KNOW that a Nutella wolf team would be overjoyed to get rid of her without an NK, but would also be wary about getting caught actively pushing such a wagon...and that's kind of the feeling I get from her.

Yeah, I didn't mention that read flip flop because I think it's pretty NAI for nutella. She tends to do that as town (the shifting views), so if anything it may be a good sign. But the point you bring up still seems reasonable - regarding her happily pushing a miselim on Amy if the support is there from others.

I really just want to know what nutella's follow up is to all that.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:25 am

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:40 am I'm overly focusing on radish because I know him the most, but he still truly doesn't sit well with me. Like I wouldn't expect a full reads list out of him this early before he's really done significant investigative work; and he evidently hasn't done that. The list just looks like work for the sake of work. Sorry, MR, if you're town and I'm disrespecting you right now.
My new spicy take is that if we're just totally on point with nutella, then maybe he's wolfing with her. Or maybe it's a TMI read so he can salvage some town equity is she's miselimed.

Who says I haven't done investigative work?

Of course you have done some. And I promise to look closely at your Scrirrus case tonight.
But, I expect you as town to do the ground-work before you come up with a big reads list. Like that's the type of thing I thought you would leave until last, when you've explored different topics and done some significant analysis. To lead with the readslist today is something that I can't help but be suspicious of. Because that's an easier way for wolves to re-introduce themselves into the thread and look like they've put in work. And it's also how they operate: start with the "reads" they want to push, and then find the justification/evidence post hoc.
Idk, maybe I'm totally off on that.

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:51 pm Of the less prominent players, I do agree that LC looks towny. I like his entire attitude so far.
But the rest are pretty null. I've honestly forgotten the posts of players like Proto and Colin. Actually Colin did say something that pinged me, where he dismissed the Amy wagon and supported the nutella suspicions (I think). I'd want to know more about that.

Nanook I'm probably going to have trouble reading because of how he plays. I think and hope he'll do more elaborating on his reads today.

Dyslexicon popped in to say something. I said 'hi' and he didn't say hi back so he's basically confirmed mafia.

Kza, like I said, is struggling to get involved in the game. Or he really doesn't care, but I would expect more if he's town here. GIVE ME SOMETHING KAZ.

-------------------

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:44 pm the strength of her insistence on the proto meta read is rubbing me the wrong way, maybe it's too easy to call it tmi but it does kinda remind me of how i sometimes whiteknight townies as scum

OMG, finally a towny take! (Not that I agree)


Tutuu, can you help us understand the meta read and what proto has done to fit that town meta?

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:51 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:20 am I also DO do shit D1, I explicitly believe in catching mafia D1, and, most importantly, I've been doing shit on D1 this game

I only remember some vague reads that were a while ago now. Have those changed? Are there new reads? Help me read you.

------------

Amy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:00 am actually yeah huh nutella never actually makes a post about my slot between saying she buys my defense and dropping me in the PoE. talk to me about myself nut. where am i at for you

also nutella/iaafr never w/w ever, if nutella's a wolf she absolutely TMI'd him v

11/60 remembering to include these is hard but remembering my post total without them is going to be harder

Not going to quote all your posts before here are my fast thoughts before I go to work.

The reaction vote and subsequent analysis is good. It's a genuine play and I think the your conclusions are ostensibly towny. That said, you may be looking too far into what is actually there, but I can't condemn you on that.

Now the reads list: it feels super convenient that your CW ends up as top scum. But I do share suspicions with the quote above, as much as it could easily be a twtbw thing.

Finally the intuition-read: I can't articulate why exactly right - or I'm too lazy too - but almost your entire game feels very crafted and agenda-y, as opposed to something naturally flowing. That's why I'm still on your wagon.

The villager appears to pour itself down, and indeed its villageryness pours in all direction, but the stream does not run out. This pouring is linear extension: that is why its beams are called rays, because they radiate in extended lines

OK I'll stop with the dumb quotes.


Also, the nutella wagon is feeling rather "easy". Like until MR, there was no actual resistance and basically everyone was like "yup nute is scummy". Maybe her teammates are bussers and low-posters but idk.


--------

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:46 am

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:10 am MR:
I'm town by post count...in a game where we're limited to 30 per 24 hours basically?

No. Are you trying to slander my wolf game indirectly? lol

Uh, yeah, you post less as a wolf. Sorry to burst that bubble for you. Here, you’re post-capping yourself, and perhaps more specifically your posts are all game-related, which is more what I meant anyway. You’re engaged. I know you hate when I call you the t-word because you never trust me in return, but too bad. Even your handling of me here fits with your town meta.

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:10 am Your PoE is also too easy for an MR PoE tbh

What is this, CDC?

Ah feck off. You haven't even seen me wolf in a while and the difference is marginal in terms of actual post count. Like it would be something like 90% of my town posting rate and that's not something that would show up in a 60 post-per-phase capped game.

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:55 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:17 am

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:04 am @Benson you seem to be here, yes?

I'm going to go eat lunch. Leave me a summary of why nutella? I got lazy when reading the pages I missed whilst sleeping and didn't pay attention.

You didn't ask me, and I'm sort of in morning catch up over breakfast mode, but since Benluga Whale didn't mention it...

My biggest, and probably only, problem with Nutella is her Amy read. It's maybe too small a problem to justify being on a four vote wagon but at this early stage it is more than I have on anyone else and she has thus far offered no explanation.

If you ISO her and specifically jump out for context when her Amy views shift there never seems to be any good reason...and her view shifts A LOT. It reads to me as (possibly) "is there really a chance to mischop a strong player like Amy day one here?" If Amy is not a wolf I KNOW that a Nutella wolf team would be overjoyed to get rid of her without an NK, but would also be wary about getting caught actively pushing such a wagon...and that's kind of the feeling I get from her.

Yeah, I didn't mention that read flip flop because I think it's pretty NAI for nutella. She tends to do that as town (the shifting views), so if anything it may be a good sign. But the point you bring up still seems reasonable - regarding her happily pushing a miselim on Amy if the support is there from others.

I really just want to know what nutella's follow up is to all that.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:25 am

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:40 am I'm overly focusing on radish because I know him the most, but he still truly doesn't sit well with me. Like I wouldn't expect a full reads list out of him this early before he's really done significant investigative work; and he evidently hasn't done that. The list just looks like work for the sake of work. Sorry, MR, if you're town and I'm disrespecting you right now.
My new spicy take is that if we're just totally on point with nutella, then maybe he's wolfing with her. Or maybe it's a TMI read so he can salvage some town equity is she's miselimed.

Who says I haven't done investigative work?

Of course you have done some. And I promise to look closely at your Scrirrus case tonight.
But, I expect you as town to do the ground-work before you come up with a big reads list. Like that's the type of thing I thought you would leave until last, when you've explored different topics and done some significant analysis. To lead with the readslist today is something that I can't help but be suspicious of. Because that's an easier way for wolves to re-introduce themselves into the thread and look like they've put in work. And it's also how they operate: start with the "reads" they want to push, and then find the justification/evidence post hoc.
Idk, maybe I'm totally off on that.

Amy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:06 am

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:32 pm I actually think iaafr thinking his own play is scummy, and scrutinizing it, and half-jokingly(?) calling it scummy is pretty sketchy. On average, wolves tend to be far more aware of how scummy their posts look (with some exceptions), and they often see those posts as scummier than average because they're biased knowing their own alignment. Scumreading his own play is I think a pre-emptive thing to get ahead of people who might want to call those posts out and make them feel silly for doing so.

i want it known that he did something similar in his last non-mash towngame and kept it up for all of d1. this is NAI for him

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:34 pm I agree with this yeah, I think he's deffo in wolfrange so far

and you should know this, because you were in that game. what's different about him here?

3/30

Amy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:14 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:09 am If we're reading alignment based on avatars then a Your Name avatar has to be lock town right? Like that movie is on par with Madoka Magica.

Anyway even if the "call your own play scummy" thing is NAI for him I think the rest of my points are still valid.

i haven't seen madoka magica but i'm already pocketed gg

i think your disliking the use of the word "tunnel" there is again somewhat NAI for iaafr; i think there may be something to your point on potential TMI on you/tutuu but i'm not willing to go anywhere near that until people start flipping, i think

idk i guess i just struggle to see anything iaafr's really done so far as being anything other than "iaafr being iaafr"

5/30

Amy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:10 am

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:52 pm 24/30

tr on tim, i think its towny that he spent a post saying "wait did X rly do Y?" instead of taking 5 secs to scroll back and see for it himself. and im kinda feeling like he still didnt bother going back to look for it, he just assumed what im saying is true and went along with it and made a joke

this is a bad read on tim, because tim is a player who's generally extremely cognizant of his own posting and able to deliberately fake stuff like this as a wolf quite well

that said i think it's kind of villagery to make this read, maybe?

i'm torn on tutuu in general because i think the way they kinda jumped us out of shitposting phase by taking a jokepost seriously is something i've seen both alignments do and i'm not entirely sure which one i'm looking at here. gth probably v off tone but far from sure

4/30

Amy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:17 am i guess honestly given that it's d0 and doesn't matter, and that the threadstate mostly reflects this, it's probably lightly villagery in a vacuum for anyone to be actually Playing The Game at this point

which i think looks best for alison because she's taking it the most seriously

6/30

Amy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:41 pm This is the one and only post I'm gonna use for self-defense unless this wagon sticks.

Consider this post largely addressed at Rabbit.

I'm multitabling. I'm pooped from Anni. I tend to intentionally use light games to decompress and not tryhard. And perhaps most pertinently, I'm pretty damn capable of faking joie de vivre as a wolf. It'd perhaps be harder if I was burned out from wolfing, but I've had a healthy mix of rands thus far this summer and if I were a wolf here I don't think we'd be in for a mountainado repeat. Go take a peek at my ISO in Voxx 9er if you don't believe me, but early tonereads aren't a good way to catch me.

You're correct that nothing I've posted yet is out of my wolfrange. If you're expecting me to leave my wolfrange in... 9? posts on day 0, you have unrealistic expectations for my towngame.

I was always entering this game with Zackpasta regardless of rand, it's a good pasta. I considered making a joke at proto's expense about not realizing it was a pasta but honestly I was afraid he wouldn't get that one either. Having people not realize jokes are jokes gets old.

Hopefully my future body of work will speak for itself, but I'd prefer to nip any misguided tunnels in the bud; like I said, Anni was exhausting. Will be around to post more content later tonight.

The worst vote on me is Nutella's.

1/60

Amy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:13 pm iaafr, tell me why you went from giving nutella a fairly secure townread to using her as your temporary landing spot when you wanted to unvote me in the span of 1 post?

also tell me what ran through your head when you jumped off/jumped back on in general

2/60

Amy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:23 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:17 pm i really desire to play mafia and to get in the thick of things and u know accusations throwing around AtE OMGUS lamist wifom all of those flying over my head like a bar brawl and suddenly there's a gangster right who shoots up the bar with a tommy gun but instead of bullet it flies tunneling, fake claiming, tmi, all those good stuff

whats the hold up lets brawl already please. iaafr obv mafia. nutella obv mafia. tutuu town. proto town. alison town. tim town. beluga whale town. nanook town. radish town. amy town.

anyone who disagrees with me is confirmed member of the mafia

anyone who agrees with me and has a gun please use it to shoot someone in our poe which we all reached a consensus on based off of our town core

6/60

this is the funniest post itg thus far and i want to lock you town and never reevaluate

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:17 pm

Amy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:13 pm iaafr, tell me why you went from giving nutella a fairly secure townread to using her as your temporary landing spot when you wanted to unvote me in the span of 1 post?

also tell me what ran through your head when you jumped off/jumped back on in general

2/60

in the world where youre town, i could buy nutella being on you being the scummiest person expressing sus of you. benson/protocultures both seem more genuinely convinced.

i noted that i was wavery on nutella earlier. that's because one of the things you took issue with in the first round of posting (her calling me in my wolfrange) was an issue with me as well. i don't think nutella actually knows my wolfrange. i just liked that she "thought about it more" and moved me to locktown apropos of nothing. i thought that was valid progression. still could've been pockety though, and calling me still in my wolfrange was still sort of pingy.

townreads of this sort are the most precarious because i could just be being pocketed, so yeah.

jumped back on because i decided your defense post still wasnt enough for me to stop tunneling you for now. though unlike what tutuu said, i'm not really trying to pressure per se, it's just an actual scumread that may or may not change. if you think you work better sans pressure, i am perfectly willing to unvote and ignore you for up to 6h to EOD, then re-verdict you then.

i'm not sure i agree with the reevaluation of nutella

i think it's very easy for a wolf to make an unfounded push, get called out for it, and be like "nah i thought about it more they're town", and i somewhat dislike that you're either overlooking or dismissing this possibility so easily

i don't really give a shit about vote pressure this far out from eod. anni was a different beast because from late day 2 on i was pretty much under constant threat from drone strikes and ITAs, and unless TSP's lost his mind i don't think we're gonna have to deal with those here. do whatever you want, i'll clear myself eventually

Amy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:52 am Actually, a quick note about rabbit.

I'm not 100% sure how good I am at reading rabbit. Last game I played with him (excluding Anni, which isn't a game) I townread him very early, but largely because I had a very strong PR read on him - one which turned out to be wrong. So I may just be shit at reading him.

That said, I was hoping that his seeming inability to get his volume under control would be an indicator that I'd be able to find him obvtown and move on with my life, but I haven't. I have Concerns.

In essence, I think his reads are stickier than he'd care to admit. I think v!rabbit maybe doesn't bother to explain in so much detail why he swapped from me to nutella to me in the span of 2 minutes. And I'm concerned about the fact that he apparently feels strong enough about my wolfiness that he's willing to start making preflip associatives about it.

I also know for a fact that rabbit hates D1 wallcases, because I made an (incorrect) one in said last game we played together and he didn't let me hear the end of it. It's entirely possible that this is just his way of getting payback, but it still concerns me.

I don't wanna go here today, though. Rabbit is a slot that gets easier and easier to read as the game goes on. We check in around D3 or D4, see if there are still Concerns, and then dunk his ass if the answer is yes. Otherwise he hard clears himself and we all move on with our lives.

Amy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:00 am actually yeah huh nutella never actually makes a post about my slot between saying she buys my defense and dropping me in the PoE. talk to me about myself nut. where am i at for you

also nutella/iaafr never w/w ever, if nutella's a wolf she absolutely TMI'd him v

11/60 remembering to include these is hard but remembering my post total without them is going to be harder

Amy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:45 am I suppose it's time for me to exit the PoE. Let's talk about why I voted Tim.

When I placed my vote, I had no read on Tim. Maybe a light gut scumlean off tone, but I had the same thing early in Spec Chat Invitational and he wound up town, and I hard towncleared Tim off tone while speccing his champs game where he ended up being a wolf. I can't toneread Tim, and thus wouldn't push him without having an actual reason to do so.

HOWEVER, Tim is a person in this game who I've played with before, and one who I hadn't talked about basically at all before I made my post. This meant that leaving a naked vote on him was material enough for people to think that I might have something on the slot, and thus cause speculation.

Essentially, it was a reaction test; not necessarily aimed at Tim specifically, though I do appreciate having data coming from him as well, but for everyone else. I wanted to see how people would play around the vote, and see if I could read into it at all, especially given how I appear to be near the bottom of quite a few people's PoE's.

So let's take a peek here.

Spoiler: show

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:34 pm

Amy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:30 pm [VOTE: Timsup2Nothin] aubergine

4/60

What have I done this time?

Initial reaction from Tim is as NAI as expected. I've reaction imaged at votes on me as both alignments, I'm not reading into this.

Spoiler: show

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:38 pm i think amy has a lot of respect for tim as a mafia player which would explain her calling my townread on him bad (which i dont even see how can a read be bad unless its trolling. its either wrong or right imo) but yea, i think this respect is making her paranoid and thats why shes voting him. i legit tr amy btw, and i still tr tim. i think both town.

idk i just desired to armchair psychologize (how tf do u verb that? psychologize. psychology-size? psychoanalyze PSYCHOANALYZE thats the word). armchair psychoanalyze what is going on, so there u go

btw tim, pls trust me when i say we can add proto to the towncore. pls trust. im not 100% confident on my other town reads but mafia is a team game, and trusting your townreads to correctly townread other ppl is, like, amazing. please trust me proto town. we are like a packet. me and him. if u tr me u need to tr him. 2-for-1 deal

9/60

also i thoguht KZA had a non-maf/maf post with iaafr (when he said he's annoyed at him scumcasing himself). i think that was too brazen to post as maf/maf. let iaafr have a taste of his own pre-flip association medicine

tutuu assumes very quickly that this is a paranoia vote, and seems to have decent backing for doing so. In a vacuum I want to call this a villagery response for how quickly she thought of it; in a world where Tim flips v, I'd maybe consider the possibility of TMI? But really I think it's just a villagery response.

Spoiler: show

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:00 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:56 pm [VOTE: iaafr] aubergine

I have a really hard time believing that you genuinely think being unmotivated in D0 is a scumtell. Also this whole "I'm going to tunnel Amy for the rest of D1" stuff looks like dropping cover for not re-evaluating or doing much else.

I guess tutuu and I found each other again. Feeling good about her this game.

i can expand a bit

amy enjoys villaging. this is my meta of amy. i consider her the type of player to naturally have lots of thoughts while reading a game, and even general exhaustion is unlikely to suppress those sorts of thoughts when she rolls villager. in that light, i think the volume + depth of thoughts she's shown so far has been lacking. i could easily be wrong, but i don't really have other strong leads rn. i still townread tim as of this moment; i don't agree with scirrus' objection to changing his mind on d0. amy's vote is essentially a nothing fearvote (or if it isn't, she's choosing not to spell out what it is so far), and while tutuu townreads that, i don't.

also the "cover for not re-evaluating or doing much else" will easily naturally be proven wrong over the course of this day regardless

won't defend the push or myself beyond this though.

This one also assumes that my read is baseless/a fearvote; a level 1 reading from my POV makes this look like a slightly wolfier response than tutuu's because it's being used to shade me, but in the context of rabbit's larger read on me it does make sense as a conclusion to draw.

Spoiler: show

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:32 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:38 pm i think amy has a lot of respect for tim as a mafia player which would explain her calling my townread on him bad (which i dont even see how can a read be bad unless its trolling. its either wrong or right imo) but yea, i think this respect is making her paranoid and thats why shes voting him. i legit tr amy btw, and i still tr tim. i think both town.

idk i just desired to armchair psychologize (how tf do u verb that? psychologize. psychology-size? psychoanalyze PSYCHOANALYZE thats the word). armchair psychoanalyze what is going on, so there u go

btw tim, pls trust me when i say we can add proto to the towncore. pls trust. im not 100% confident on my other town reads but mafia is a team game, and trusting your townreads to correctly townread other ppl is, like, amazing. please trust me proto town. we are like a packet. me and him. if u tr me u need to tr him. 2-for-1 deal

9/60

also i thoguht KZA had a non-maf/maf post with iaafr (when he said he's annoyed at him scumcasing himself). i think that was too brazen to post as maf/maf. let iaafr have a taste of his own pre-flip association medicine

A'ight. Since we can only kill one person at a time as far as I'm willing to think we can pretty much take in whoever you want, at least temporarily. I actually appreciate that because maybe we can get a similar perspective across to Amy. I'm not gonna fault her, because from a v!Amy perspective "nothing really clear to do here, maybe kill Tim just to be on the safe side" is a plausibly towny thought. I can't really do anything in particular to change her mind because "that's in his wolf range" will be applied to anything I might be able to do in the limited time of day one. However I can be a really useful towny as the game progresses so I am obviously gonna suggest not chopping me today.

Which brings us to the flip side of our little coin here. If I'm taking in whoever you want, at least temporarily, do I get the same trust? Even if it is someone you are thinking is obvious mafia? Because since we are only looking to kill one person in this particular bar fight I'm inclined that it not be Rabbit. His waffly on and offness about Amy I think has a good chance to settle off Amy, and if it doesn't he'll have really good reasons by the time we're actually chopping someone. And either way from there I think he works clear if he is clear.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Then there's this.

Scirrus wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:46 pm

Spoiler: show

Amy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:26 pm

iaafr wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:21 pm didnt realize zack was a philosopher

i've always preferred the classics

anyways: hello and sorry and advance to those who don't know me. i help run mafia universe and i assure you it's not a position i attained through prowess at the game

there's like a 70% chance i'm legit just gonna fuck off until d1 glgl

why though?

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:33 pm There is only one serious philosophical problem, and that is why I don’t have a girlfriend.

F in the chat

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:35 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:33 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:32 pm Pretty fucked up that I went to the trouble to get into this game with tutuu just to have her roll scum.

[VOTE: tutuu] aubergine

WOW WTF

Town tutuu D0: is excited to play the game, tells all the people she likes to play with how much she wants to play with them, pre-emptively townreads people based on town and/or enthusiasm so she can start forming a towncore of people she trusts.

Scum tutuu D0: I'm TOWN everyone. I'm innocent TOWN. Have I mentioned I'm TOWN?

i don't hate this push tbh

iaafr wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:36 pmim town btw

omg rabbit like same tho

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:37 pm

iaafr wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:30 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:29 pm

Amy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:26 pm
i've always preferred the classics

anyways: hello and sorry and advance to those who don't know me. i help run mafia universe and i assure you it's not a position i attained through prowess at the game

there's like a 70% chance i'm legit just gonna fuck off until d1 glgl

As long as we have provided the answers Tony needs to advance the game to day one this seems like the legit best strat tbh.

how so? do you not believe in day 0 intros being readable?

They are on par with the early day one RVS and shiptoasting stage, which we will have plenty of time for day one.

I guess I was thinking more in terms of getting our answers in and moving on as opposed to stretching day zero looking for benefits...but you raise a valid point. If you want to stretch it out and have an extended meet and greet that can be fun and maybe productive. I'm in.

I don't really like that you backtracked from going "that sounds useless" right to ""it could be productive! I'm in" right when rabbit questioned you if i'm being honest

Spoiler: show

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:38 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:35 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:33 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:32 pm Pretty fucked up that I went to the trouble to get into this game with tutuu just to have her roll scum.

[VOTE: tutuu] aubergine

WOW WTF

Town tutuu D0: is excited to play the game, tells all the people she likes to play with how much she wants to play with them, pre-emptively townreads people based on town and/or enthusiasm so she can start forming a towncore of people she trusts.

Scum tutuu D0: I'm TOWN everyone. I'm innocent TOWN. Have I mentioned I'm TOWN?

well i wasnt like jumping up and down but i was lowkey pleasant sensation from seeing i rolled town and then i tried to talk to ppl but they were all friends in between themselves and they were talking to each other and i didnt know how to interject without being too awkward so i just said the stuff i said in case someone wanted to maybe start a conversation with me or something

lol you're cute. i hope you're not scum :0

but yeah idrk if i see it

As much as you say it, I do have to start wondering if you are being honest. I WILL be honest and say that I don't care what you "don't like." If you wanna throw shade, throw it. But don't bury it under some mamby-pamby 'I don't like it...' like you don't know what to do. If you think it's wolf indicative, rise up and say so.

For the record, having never played a day zero in my life I thought accepting Rabbit's greater experience in the matter was pretty civilized of me.

I think the inclination for Tim to default to assuming my vote is pure paranoia is also villagery? I think w!Tim would be at least a little wary that I've somehow got something real on him; someone said earlier in the thread that wolves tend to find flaws in their own posting fairly readily, and I think Tim would potentially be cognizant of that? The caveat here is that with how many times the possibility of a fearvote has been floated, it'd be easy for Tim to stick to the narrative of it being such, but I kinda think I buy this as a real thought.

Spoiler: show

iaafr wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:26 am getting more and more inclined towards nutella/tim

which i think is amyperspective aorn?

in that world scirrus is like lock town (and i really like this recent post)

This might be the first post that buys into my vote as potentially having real reasoning behind it. I'm... not sure how I feel about it. If this post were being used to shade me I'd say that accepting my vote as more real than it is would be a sign of agenda, but... it's not being used to shade me, it's being used to contextualize iaafr's own reads and evaluate his own perspective. Which... might be villagery? I think?

Spoiler: show

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:09 am

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:55 am

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:45 am

Scirrus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:24 am

Spoiler: show

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:21 pm

Spoiler: show

Amy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:06 am

i want it known that he did something similar in his last non-mash towngame and kept it up for all of d1. this is NAI for him



and you should know this, because you were in that game. what's different about him here?

3/30

Amy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:10 am

this is a bad read on tim, because tim is a player who's generally extremely cognizant of his own posting and able to deliberately fake stuff like this as a wolf quite well

that said i think it's kind of villagery to make this read, maybe?

i'm torn on tutuu in general because i think the way they kinda jumped us out of shitposting phase by taking a jokepost seriously is something i've seen both alignments do and i'm not entirely sure which one i'm looking at here. gth probably v off tone but far from sure

4/30

Amy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:14 am

i haven't seen madoka magica but i'm already pocketed gg

i think your disliking the use of the word "tunnel" there is again somewhat NAI for iaafr; i think there may be something to your point on potential TMI on you/tutuu but i'm not willing to go anywhere near that until people start flipping, i think

idk i guess i just struggle to see anything iaafr's really done so far as being anything other than "iaafr being iaafr"

5/30

Amy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:17 am i guess honestly given that it's d0 and doesn't matter, and that the threadstate mostly reflects this, it's probably lightly villagery in a vacuum for anyone to be actually Playing The Game at this point

which i think looks best for alison because she's taking it the most seriously

6/30

Amy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:18 am

yeah perhaps better phrasing would have been "bad way to read tim specifically"

side note ctrl+i not italicizing on this forum is yet another reason why phpBB needs to go away

7/30

Amy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:23 am

it's a copypasta. i didn't write it

amy posts enclosed

these are all scum posts

first is scum post, meme copypasta that's not particularly original or fitting is >rand scum (based on experience with wiggles doing it once as scum, n=1 reads goat)

everything amy's posted so far is easily postable as scum. like scarily easily. i can't find a single thought by amy that makes me want to town her, and i don't think she'd be QUITE this underwhelming as town. think she's just low wim scum because she didn't particularly want to rand scum here and can't find the motivation to put her pride on the line by trying particularly hard. clarifying that the first post was a meme (and therefore invalid reason to sus) is a bit on the flatly defensive side; that sort of sus couldve been handled in a lot more playful manner (this point might be the weakest). amy is just completely transparently joyless in this game, and i think that's because of her alignment.

might not be a particularly convincing case, but i feel pretty good about this scumread.

sorry if wrong, this is my d1 tunnel.

[VOTE: Amy] aubergine

townreads:

nutella, tutuu, protocultures

townleans:

tim, scirrus (guttest of gut), werewolfhunter, alison, long con

null/scumlean/flipfloppy:

nanook, radishes, benson, dyslexicon, coliniscool, kza, colonialbob

scumread:

amy



not giving deep reasons for any reads except the scumcase i wrote on amy for now. will start writing towncases sometime during the day, after more stuff has happened.

tempted to put benson in townleans, but... just a bit sketched by a few little things. similar thoughts with nanook/radishes. the rest of the people in that group don't seem to be playing to be read any townier than null regardless of actual alignment, so i feel like they're pretty understandable placements. also slightly sketched by alison, but i mildly mindmelded with the early tutuu sus (before i decided it was civ/civ) and thats enough to make me gth her town.

why is nutella so high up on the list? i'm not really sure where to place her, she just seems like...kinda there to me.

Why the town lean on long con?

all other reads seem aight to me. I would personally put Benson in town tho

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:26 pm I agree more with the suspicion of Scirrus’ entrance than with the suspicion of Amy, at this point in time.

Why do you find the suspicion on me more valid than the suspicion of Amy?

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:28 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:18 pm
i mean, in my personal opinion this is a reach. i saw it as clarification for the sake of clarification, ive flatly clarified a bunch of stuff already this game i feel like (and reminder im town) altho maybe they werent flat and i just cant accurately recognize how i come off as but. mm. idk, like, ... nvm actually u do say it yourself that this point might be weakest

i like the person with the whale avatar. was it benson? i like alison's tr on him alot.

looks like im in the minority but i kind of dislike nutella? (in the sense of not townreading her obviously!). i think that shes hard to read, finding her as town in pyre mafia wasnt easy, a lot of ppl were scumreading her but i managed to do it. and in this game i feel like if she's town it's ... even harder to find her? and everyone townreading her is just making me paused. am i in the wrong here to perceive nutella this way, or am i not? that is the question

1/60

So much for doing more reading than posting, but...

I added at least some explanation to all me early feelies except Nutella, and that was just because I ran out of free post time and then spaced it.

Nutella is just a straight feelie of "forum management" that is different from when I played with her before on MU. This is a not ideal source for any kind of feelies, but I just can't help but have it. To me Nutella is juggling her position and the game, not her position, the game, AND wolfing. That is extremely soft, but if nothing else it is something I need to keep track of for my own awareness of bias. In no way do I expect to be followed on this, and in fact people who have played with her here are encouraged to tell me I'm wrong if you think I am.

i'm kinda confused, what do you mean about her "position"? Like as a moderator of this forum? And how that would bleed into her town and wolf play? Or am I just misunderstanding lol

Yeah. Mod/admins playing on their own forum are biting off a chunk that can be hard to chew. In a situation like that randing wolf is like a gut punch, because wolfing is a LOT more intensive effort. Nutella seemed to be goin' along and gettin' along and I kinda took that too much at face value there at that time. But current ISO read is telling me I may have made a mistake there.

Amy progression in particular is really bad I think.

uh u wot m8?

in my experience like 80% of the players on the syndicate are moderators and admins, and like, it seems like a small site, do u think shes busy fighting off trolls all day or wot

I get it. I already said I made a mistake there. It happens.

Anyway, I think I'm coming round to a bit more kumbuya feeling here. Rabbit's town leans include you and it seems I've convinced you to not kill him today so I feel good about that. I've been ISO reading and have gone through everyone above me on your list without getting any burning desire to kill the people you want to let live today so that's good. And by all our separate paths it seems like we have arrived at least for the moment at Nutella.

Amy is paranoia voting me...at least I think since she hasn't said why. That's okay.

Scirrus is kind of a difference of opinions, and that's okay.

We have a surprising amount of agreement for as early as it really is (D0 is throwing me off some, but seriously we are only like five hours into D1 I think).

[VOTE: Nutella] aubergine

I'm gonna call this one NAI to save myself some headache. Reading into things Tim says is difficult because he's competent at pushing narratives as both alignments. Going off what I said earlier about him, the "at least I think so" corollary could be a very light wolftell, but I think I probably don't draw any STRONG conclusions from Tim's overall reaction either way.


--------

So I'm kind of disappointed that I didn't get QUITE as much attention with my vote as I would have liked; was hoping to spark more robust discussion, since I clearly wasn't around to produce it myself.

I think in general it's probably >rand villager to notice the vote and not use it to shade me, which would lend v points to tutuu even independent of the fact that I think it was a villagery post in general. I think overall I land on the lightly villagery side of null for both Tim and iaafr; both of their reactions could go either way, but I think Tim showed a level of unconcernedness that belie a villagery perspective, whereas rabbit seemed to be legitimately evaluating his own reads based on his perception of mine.

Lemme look into the rest of thread happenings.

8/60

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:35 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:33 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:32 pm Pretty fucked up that I went to the trouble to get into this game with tutuu just to have her roll scum.

[VOTE: tutuu] aubergine

WOW WTF

Town tutuu D0: is excited to play the game, tells all the people she likes to play with how much she wants to play with them, pre-emptively townreads people based on town and/or enthusiasm so she can start forming a towncore of people she trusts.

Scum tutuu D0: I'm TOWN everyone. I'm innocent TOWN. Have I mentioned I'm TOWN?

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:30 pm tutuu is town for that massive wall of text with incredibly convoluted reasoning about my alignment. Wolves don't put their mind so deep into the weeds for someone whose alignment they already know.

I'm gut reading proto town.

MR and tim have some W/W equity for a very "theater"-like interaction.

Benson seems like he's lonely and trying to reach out to people, which is town. Also Benson, my experience with proto has led me to feel absolutely no discomfort at his "self-conscious meta talk". I get why you feel suspicious about it - I had similar thoughts on iaafr. I'm just saying, from my own meta experience it's not something I'm concerned about.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:56 pm [VOTE: iaafr] aubergine

I have a really hard time believing that you genuinely think being unmotivated in D0 is a scumtell. Also this whole "I'm going to tunnel Amy for the rest of D1" stuff looks like dropping cover for not re-evaluating or doing much else.

I guess tutuu and I found each other again. Feeling good about her this game.

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:05 pm "Tunnel" is an interesting choice of words, given that I've made one post calling tutuu scum, one post explaining the read, and then another post explaining that the read is serious.

[VOTE: iaafr] aubergine

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:24 am

Amy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:14 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:09 am If we're reading alignment based on avatars then a Your Name avatar has to be lock town right? Like that movie is on par with Madoka Magica.

Anyway even if the "call your own play scummy" thing is NAI for him I think the rest of my points are still valid.

i haven't seen madoka magica but i'm already pocketed gg

i think your disliking the use of the word "tunnel" there is again somewhat NAI for iaafr; i think there may be something to your point on potential TMI on you/tutuu but i'm not willing to go anywhere near that until people start flipping, i think

idk i guess i just struggle to see anything iaafr's really done so far as being anything other than "iaafr being iaafr"

5/30

If you liked Your Name you'll like Madoka Magica.

Anyway a couple of people have chimed in to say that everything I find suspicious is just iaafr's meta but I don't have any leads other than tutuu/iaafr at the moment so I'm happy to just pursue it and see how it goes. If I'm wrong I have my faith in my ability to re-evaluate.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:56 pm [VOTE: iaafr] aubergine

I have a really hard time believing that you genuinely think being unmotivated in D0 is a scumtell. Also this whole "I'm going to tunnel Amy for the rest of D1" stuff looks like dropping cover for not re-evaluating or doing much else.

I guess tutuu and I found each other again. Feeling good about her this game.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:42 am

protocultures wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:51 am

Amy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:21 pm I am so supremely confident in my abilities, and so thunderously calm + relaxed, that I will make a single irrelevant post at SOD then peace out for hours on end. I won't do anything villagery, I won't make any reads, I'll make 29 shitposts over the next 23 hours, then once D1 rolls around I'll make an unspecified number of additional shitposts. No cogent thought will escape these handsome lips. I will be illogical, haphazard, superfluous, inessential, pointless, redundant, uncalled for, unwarranted, unjustified, and gratuitous. The effen theorem will catch me with my pants betwixt my ankles. I'll vote off-wagon, talk about random nonsense, and make inappropriate japes concerning my relation to wolfchat. I am preemptively declaring any responses to this post "fair enough". I'll complain about a lack of WIM, the cause of which is nebuluous, obscure, and entirely insufficient. I will fabricate excuses and pretend I am busy to avoid posting in this thread, when in fact I will be watching cartoons and eating cheeto puffs in my underwear. More specifically, black boxer-briefs. You can't stop me. You can't misyeet me. You're powerless. I laugh in your face. I'm a villager, therefore I can do whatever the fuck I want. Go cry in wolfchat, you big baby. While you're poring over the thread, searching for any clue at all to help you in the seer hunt, know that I am still watching those cartoons and eating those cheeto puffs, nary a care in the world. My armpits are bone dry. I'm a villager, what are you going to do about it? Nothing; you will do nothing about it, because that's all you can do. Ligma. What's ligma? Ligma balls.

[VOTE: Sleep] aubergine

Found another mafia

what makes you think this is scummy proto?

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:30 pm tutuu is town for that massive wall of text with incredibly convoluted reasoning about my alignment. Wolves don't put their mind so deep into the weeds for someone whose alignment they already know.

I'm gut reading proto town.

MR and tim have some W/W equity for a very "theater"-like interaction.

Benson seems like he's lonely and trying to reach out to people, which is town. Also Benson, my experience with proto has led me to feel absolutely no discomfort at his "self-conscious meta talk". I get why you feel suspicious about it - I had similar thoughts on iaafr. I'm just saying, from my own meta experience it's not something I'm concerned about.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:52 am 3/80

Scirrus and nutella are scummy, proto is town.

I am very tired and don't feel like talking much so if you want to engage me about any of these reads just tell me which ones stand out to you.