Death and Taxes: An Economics Mafia [DAY 7]

#251

Epignosis wrote:Don't worry. You'll hear from me when you hear from me.

alrighty then. i don't anticipate needing to hold you to this.

#252

I see that DDL thinks all those who've been posting tonight look like town. I disagree, but not only that, I highly doubt that none of the mafia are talking. I just can't see that being the case. Honestly, I see MP's over-helpful behavior as suspicious. I know we have a lot of new players and he wants to be helpful, but there's just something fishy about it.

#253

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Golden wrote:My thoughts so far - a few newbies (DDL, JJJ, sanmateo, sloonei) are running straight into a drive by lynch of one of them. Not that I support that, I just feel like it's what you risk by generating so much discussion here on day one.
if our conduct to this point has been that unusual by Syndicate standards, i would urge caution in those who'd perceive it negatively by default. "generating so much discussion on Day 1" is honestly exactly how i'd describe the most productive town approach (indeed, i truly struggle to imagine it being perceived as inherently suspicious). if it's abnormal here, very well. i look forward to seeing the reception we get from the other regulars.

I agree that discussion is the most productive approach. But I didn't mean people would find it inherently suspicious, and don't want to discourage it from occurring. Rather, just that drive by votes can happen here (especially on day one), and visible people are easier targets to manufacture a case on. Right now, I think you guys are already in a place where it would be very easy for others to come in and make the day one conversation only about the four of you, and guarantee by doing that that one of you would be lynched.

I just wanted to get in and discourage that from occurring before it did. If others come in and begin to form opinions about the four of you, perhaps it will begin to help us all form opinions about a wider range of people.

#254

Anyway, my read on sanmateo, since it's the only one I haven't read yet.

The fact that he is being active and suspecting of me is a good thing, as opposed to what I said about MP. But I don't like how he is tunneling on me hard. I've hardly seen him talking about anyone else, and I'd like to see his opinions on other people. It gives me some scum deja-vus. May be a townie whos got a strong belief that I'm scum and wants to pursue that, or may be a scummy wanting to tunnel on the resident "townie who talks a lot" so he can fill his post quota. Either way, considering multiple people seem to be suspecting him, his possible scum strategy doesn't seem to be working.

Anyway, I like what Golden said about wanting other people to talk. Including we 4 newbies and MP, only 5 people have talked this night. The other 14 (including Golden who only showed up now) have been silent. Where are the others? There's no point in talking this much if most of the scum is conveniently lurking as the townies and maybe 1-2 scum argue with each other.

#255

Elohcin wrote:I see that DDL thinks all those who've been posting tonight look like town. I disagree, but not only that, I highly doubt that none of the mafia are talking. I just can't see that being the case. Honestly, I see MP's over-helpful behavior as suspicious. I know we have a lot of new players and he wants to be helpful, but there's just something fishy about it.

Is this "something fishy" something you could elaborate on, or is it nothing more than an inkling at the moment?

#256

Golden wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Golden wrote:My thoughts so far - a few newbies (DDL, JJJ, sanmateo, sloonei) are running straight into a drive by lynch of one of them. Not that I support that, I just feel like it's what you risk by generating so much discussion here on day one.
if our conduct to this point has been that unusual by Syndicate standards, i would urge caution in those who'd perceive it negatively by default. "generating so much discussion on Day 1" is honestly exactly how i'd describe the most productive town approach (indeed, i truly struggle to imagine it being perceived as inherently suspicious). if it's abnormal here, very well. i look forward to seeing the reception we get from the other regulars.
I agree that discussion is the most productive approach. But I didn't mean people would find it inherently suspicious, and don't want to discourage it from occurring. Rather, just that drive by votes can happen here (especially on day one), and visible people are easier targets to manufacture a case on. Right now, I think you guys are already in a place where it would be very easy for others to come in and make the day one conversation only about the four of you, and guarantee by doing that that one of you would be lynched.

I just wanted to get in and discourage that from occurring before it did. If others come in and begin to form opinions about the four of you, perhaps it will begin to help us all form opinions about a wider range of people.

noted. it seems we all only get one vote here, so i would hope everyone would take care with theirs.

you're right that there's some risk of Day 1 discussion focusing too much upon the active new players. so let me say now that i absolutely encourage everyone to pay due attention to all of the players populating that poll up there -- not just us. there's plenty of room in this continuing conversation for everyone to be engaged with one another.

#257

Elohcin wrote:I see that DDL thinks all those who've been posting tonight look like town. I disagree, but not only that, I highly doubt that none of the mafia are talking. I just can't see that being the case. Honestly, I see MP's over-helpful behavior as suspicious. I know we have a lot of new players and he wants to be helpful, but there's just something fishy about it.

Depends on your point of view. I can say the probability of each of the 4 people I'm talking about being town is high. But the probability of ALL four of them being town? Not that high. I agree there's a fair chance of one being mafia among them, but I haven't seen an indicator that makes one seem a lot scummier than the others. I have reasons to suspect all 4 a little.

#258

Elohcin wrote:I see that DDL thinks all those who've been posting tonight look like town. I disagree, but not only that, I highly doubt that none of the mafia are talking. I just can't see that being the case. Honestly, I see MP's over-helpful behavior as suspicious. I know we have a lot of new players and he wants to be helpful, but there's just something fishy about it.

could you point to a post in which you interpreted MP as being "over-helpful" and describe why you felt it was excessive?

#259

Golden, you said you see me as playing differently? How? I feel this is pretty par for the course behavior from me, so I'm intrigued. Maybe you've just never seen me in full form.

sanmateo wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
sanmateo
whats good?

I feel like you're contributing the least of the four players in the midst right now, so I'll move you up if you can prove you're of a civilian mindset.

Elohcin wrote:I see that DDL thinks all those who've been posting tonight look like town. I disagree, but not only that, I highly doubt that none of the mafia are talking. I just can't see that being the case. Honestly, I see MP's over-helpful behavior as suspicious. I know we have a lot of new players and he wants to be helpful, but there's just something fishy about it.

And here we go with the suspicion my direction on Day 1 AGAIN.

I was feeling pretty chill about heat coming my way, but this "overhelpful" accusation gets really tiresome and it's bull. I like to be helpful regardless of alignment. I'm excited to play this game regardless of my alignment.

Elo, you've seen this behavior from me time and time again, and I believe I do it regardless of alignment, so I don't understand your thought process. Please elaborate.

#260

Also, it appears SAS is down, hence why I'm here.

That said, I doubt I'll be able to sustain this level of activity over the next few days, just a heads up.

#261

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:i am finding myself liking DDL's defenses, particularly the most recent. he is earnestly trying to describe a Day 1 strategy that is inherently a bit volatile but potentially highly productive for a townie. i am particularly familiar with what he is describing because i employ a similar approach myself. i like that he is willing to play a little dangerously, because dangerous play generates controversy and thus meaningful and readable content from others. it isn't terribly townie behavior, in my opinion, to play tentatively merely for the sake of alleviating suspicion upon oneself. welcoming a little suspicion with the promise to create a bonafide Mafia game right away in Day 1 is good play.

good strategy doesn't imply innocence of course. but i like that he is open about his methods, and his descriptions do seem to reflect both his posts so far and the way others have perceived him.

Do you want to know what I look for?

#262

Dundundun.

#263

I was wondering when Adverb Epi would strike.

#264

Golden wrote:I've skimmed through. Probably a lot of content I need to sort out in terms of who has post what.

My thoughts so far - a few newbies (DDL, JJJ, sanmateo, sloonei) are running straight into a drive by lynch of one of them. Not that I support that, I just feel like it's what you risk by generating so much discussion here on day one.

what, is this a threat?

I'm not a fan of sanmateo because I'm not sure why he called out DDL for moving from 'low poster' to 'MP'. He was just following up something MP said that pinged him. Why is that suspicious? And why wouldn't you change your vote from 'what I'd do in the absence of anyone seeming bad' to 'what I'd do now that someone seems bad'. Better off voting the person you think is bad rather than simply voting random between the people you have no civ read on.

actually thats sort of what i said isnt it? if votes were random, the town:mafia ratio would have to be 9:1. it IS weird that he would say he'd rather do a random vote, specially this early in the day. but in general it bothers me when people would rather lynch a lurker. also the reason it bothered me is because he did it after people brought it up, which is the second instance of him changing his behavior after being called out

ddl: i dont think im tunneling you ftr, it's just that there's literally 5 people posting including me and i'm familiar with the other 3

#265

Epignosis wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:i am finding myself liking DDL's defenses, particularly the most recent. he is earnestly trying to describe a Day 1 strategy that is inherently a bit volatile but potentially highly productive for a townie. i am particularly familiar with what he is describing because i employ a similar approach myself. i like that he is willing to play a little dangerously, because dangerous play generates controversy and thus meaningful and readable content from others. it isn't terribly townie behavior, in my opinion, to play tentatively merely for the sake of alleviating suspicion upon oneself. welcoming a little suspicion with the promise to create a bonafide Mafia game right away in Day 1 is good play.

good strategy doesn't imply innocence of course. but i like that he is open about his methods, and his descriptions do seem to reflect both his posts so far and the way others have perceived him.
Do you want to know what I look for?

if you're looking for adverbs, you've come to the right place. expect piles of them.

#266

here's some random page of me being a townie:

https://rateyourmusic.com/board_message ... 0&start=80

CTRL+F

"ly"

if you have any further comments about meaningless adverbs, lemme know

#267

MovingPictures07 wrote:Golden, you said you see me as playing differently? How? I feel this is pretty par for the course behavior from me, so I'm intrigued. Maybe you've just never seen me in full form.

I think your language and approach mirrors our new friends to some extent. You are normally keen for day one discussion but on this occasion you are super keen. To me, though, it mirrors your general tone and excitement I've seen from you outside the thread concerning all the newbies we have, so I raised it specifically to note that I don't think it is an indication that you are not being yourself in any meaningful game way.

#268

Sloonei wrote:
Elohcin wrote:I see that DDL thinks all those who've been posting tonight look like town. I disagree, but not only that, I highly doubt that none of the mafia are talking. I just can't see that being the case. Honestly, I see MP's over-helpful behavior as suspicious. I know we have a lot of new players and he wants to be helpful, but there's just something fishy about it.
Is this "something fishy" something you could elaborate on, or is it nothing more than an inkling at the moment?

I tried to elaborate in my first post but I just can't seem to put my finger on it. It just doesn't seem like MP behavior. I've seen his baddie game as a teammate and not as a teammate. I've seen his civ game as well. I am not saying I am even up to 80% sure he is bad, but I do know his behavior seems odd to me and I will be watching him as this game progresses. As for the rest of you who are talking a lot, this is my first game with you. I am going to need more hard core evidence (like voting records) before I convince myself one of you are bad.

Linki: MP, you do talk everything to death, yes

But I've never seen you so helpful and supportive of other players. You are kind of a selfish player, does that make sense? Now, not as selfish a player as Epi

, but still. The only thing holding me back from really thinking you are bad is the fact that there are a lot of new players and maybe that has changed your play a bit. I have a question for you....and you might not be able to answer with the sock game going on, but.....I know you took a bit of a sabbatical from Mafia. Is this your first game back in a while?

Good night the LINKI. I think Jay may be done for

#269

#270

MovingPictures07 wrote:I was wondering when Adverb Epi would strike.

is Adverb Epi a thing? it's important to me, because i view that sort of vocabulary/grammar/part of speech accusation to be definition scummy

#271

here is mp07's post history from the game he played in rym: https://rateyourmusic.com/board_message ... 20&start=0

would you say it is different to his meta now or to his meta on this site? i'm trying to understand where yall come from

#272

@sanmateo: here's the thing you're not getting. When I say I would vote someone, we're talking about an hypothetical situation here. And I talked about those hypothesis because people asked me to: "what would you do if you had to vote now?, and "what would you do if you had to pick one of the four?". I'm not going to vote now. I'm not changing my behavior because of others, but I see no problem in talking about hypothesis because of others. It's just questions, after all.

G-Man wrote:

This is objectively the funniest thing I've seem today.

(and yes I said objectively on purposed. Suck it epi)

#273

sanmateo wrote:here is mp07's post history from the game he played in rym: https://rateyourmusic.com/board_message ... 20&start=0

would you say it is different to his meta now or to his meta on this site? i'm trying to understand where yall come from

Doesn't sound like the same MP to me. Short, to the point posts.

#274

G-Man wrote:~insert adverb devil image thing here~

what are your thoughts on... anything?

#275

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:@sanmateo: here's the thing you're not getting. When I say I would vote someone, we're talking about an hypothetical situation here. And I talked about those hypothesis because people asked me to: "what would you do if you had to vote now?, and "what would you do if you had to pick one of the four?". I'm not going to vote now. I'm not changing my behavior because of others, but I see no problem in talking about hypothesis because of others. It's just questions, after all.

ok, are those posts completely inconsequential then?

#276

Elohcin wrote:
sanmateo wrote:here is mp07's post history from the game he played in rym: https://rateyourmusic.com/board_message ... 20&start=0

would you say it is different to his meta now or to his meta on this site? i'm trying to understand where yall come from
Doesn't sound like the same MP to me. Short, to the point posts.

where in this game do you feel MP has been over-helpful? specifically OVER-helpful?

#277

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:here's some random page of me being a townie:

https://rateyourmusic.com/board_message ... 0&start=80

CTRL+F

"ly"

if you have any further comments about meaningless adverbs, lemme know

That's not what I look for. There is more to the adverb thing than words that end in -ly.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:I was wondering when Adverb Epi would strike.
is Adverb Epi a thing? it's important to me, because i view that sort of vocabulary/grammar/part of speech accusation to be definition scummy

That's a point against you, my friend.

#278

Jay, Epi is an English teacher, and the Adverb suspicion is one that he commonly holds throughout many games. I don't think it indicates mafia behavior from him, more of just an opinion.

Golden wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Golden, you said you see me as playing differently? How? I feel this is pretty par for the course behavior from me, so I'm intrigued. Maybe you've just never seen me in full form.
I think your language and approach mirrors our new friends to some extent. You are normally keen for day one discussion but on this occasion you are super keen. To me, though, it mirrors your general tone and excitement I've seen from you outside the thread concerning all the newbies we have, so I raised it specifically to note that I don't think it is an indication that you are not being yourself in any meaningful game way.

Fair enough. Thanks!

I'm really sort of puzzled though. I feel like I'm playing my normal game, though I will admit I'm particularly excited about this game. Please refer to my subsequent response for more context, perhaps. I don't feel like I'm playing a different game.

Elohcin wrote: I tried to elaborate in my first post but I just can't seem to put my finger on it. It just doesn't seem like MP behavior. I've seen his baddie game as a teammate and not as a teammate. I've seen his civ game as well. I am not saying I am even up to 80% sure he is bad, but I do know his behavior seems odd to me and I will be watching him as this game progresses. As for the rest of you who are talking a lot, this is my first game with you. I am going to need more hard core evidence (like voting records) before I convince myself one of you are bad.

Linki: MP, you do talk everything to death, yes But I've never seen you so helpful and supportive of other players. You are kind of a selfish player, does that make sense? Now, not as selfish a player as Epi , but still.

In the first paragraph, you say you can't put your finger on it.

In the second, you say it's because you've never seen me so helpful and supportive of other players.

I have many questions:
1) Which is it? You can't put your finger on it or because you've never seen me so helpful and supportive?
2) If it is the latter, how does that make me bad?
3) I'm really kind of shocked you describe me as a selfish player (don't worry, I'm not offended) because I feel like I try to get discussion going as much as I can. Can you elaborate on what you mean exactly perhaps? I don't really understand.
4) How has my play changed? Just the helpful and supportive? In what ways am I being helpful and supportive any more than usual?

I split your post up since I want to respond to your question in a separate thought.

Elohcin wrote:The only thing holding me back from really thinking you are bad is the fact that there are a lot of new players and maybe that has changed your play a bit. I have a question for you....and you might not be able to answer with the sock game going on, but.....I know you took a bit of a sabbatical from Mafia. Is this your first game back in a while?

No, I played a game over at RYM, as well as a game over on NF, and I've been incredibly active in scouting out other sites, talking with folks in the spectator chat (particularly while Turnip Head's game was going on, I've been too busy to pick it back up much since then), etc.

What I really needed was a sabbatical from playing games here, though I didn't realize it at the time, and felt incredibly refreshed particularly after playing Game #84 at RYM.

For the past year or so, at least, I feel like much of my play has been on autopilot, and I haven't been feeling as passionate about games as I used to, so I intended on taking a break. My break was short-lived when I started playing soon thereafter at other sites, again, and I really started enjoying games a lot more and was feeling much less emotionally frustrated when suspicion would come my way, etc.

#279

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
G-Man wrote:~insert adverb devil image thing here~
what are your thoughts on... anything?

#280

Epignosis wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:here's some random page of me being a townie:

https://rateyourmusic.com/board_message ... 0&start=80

CTRL+F

"ly"

if you have any further comments about meaningless adverbs, lemme know
That's not what I look for. There is more to the adverb thing than words that end in -ly.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:I was wondering when Adverb Epi would strike.
is Adverb Epi a thing? it's important to me, because i view that sort of vocabulary/grammar/part of speech accusation to be definition scummy
That's a point against you, my friend.

alright. so what else is there to the adverb than than words that end in -ly? vaguely cryptic accusation. vaguely because that word literally modifies "cryptic", just as "literally" modifies "modifies".

#281

G-Man, are you cursed?

#282

MovingPictures07 wrote:Jay, Epi is an English teacher, and the Adverb suspicion is one that he commonly holds throughout many games. I don't think it indicates mafia behavior from him, more of just an opinion.

thank you. i'll continue failing to capitalize a single thing too.

#283

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:here's some random page of me being a townie:

https://rateyourmusic.com/board_message ... 0&start=80

CTRL+F

"ly"

if you have any further comments about meaningless adverbs, lemme know
That's not what I look for. There is more to the adverb thing than words that end in -ly.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:I was wondering when Adverb Epi would strike.
is Adverb Epi a thing? it's important to me, because i view that sort of vocabulary/grammar/part of speech accusation to be definition scummy
That's a point against you, my friend.
alright. so what else is there to the adverb than than words that end in -ly? vaguely cryptic accusation. vaguely because that word literally modifies "cryptic", just as "literally" modifies "modifies".

Mmm, no. You seemed to suggest that you have your own opinion on "vocabulary / grammar / part of speech." You don't get any tips from me.

#284

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Jay, Epi is an English teacher, and the Adverb suspicion is one that he commonly holds throughout many games. I don't think it indicates mafia behavior from him, more of just an opinion.
thank you. i'll continue failing to capitalize a single thing too.

Oh, you'll fail to capitalize, all right.

#285

MovingPictures07 wrote:G-Man, are you cursed?

none of the roles in the op mention that, do any of the Economics people know if it would make sense for any of the characters to be cursed?

(idk if this is at all ok to speculate since claiming is forbidden)

#286

Epignosis wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Mmm, no. You seemed to suggest that you have your own opinion on "vocabulary / grammar / part of speech." You don't get any tips from me.

your shure grouchy tonite. their their now.

#287

Epignosis wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Jay, Epi is an English teacher, and the Adverb suspicion is one that he commonly holds throughout many games. I don't think it indicates mafia behavior from him, more of just an opinion.
thank you. i'll continue failing to capitalize a single thing too.
Oh, you'll fail to capitalize, all right.

if this forum had an emoji of someone getting dunked on, i would use it here

#288

sanmateo wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:@sanmateo: here's the thing you're not getting. When I say I would vote someone, we're talking about an hypothetical situation here. And I talked about those hypothesis because people asked me to: "what would you do if you had to vote now?, and "what would you do if you had to pick one of the four?". I'm not going to vote now. I'm not changing my behavior because of others, but I see no problem in talking about hypothesis because of others. It's just questions, after all.
ok, are those posts completely inconsequential then?

They are not completely inconsequential, because I do try to show what I think about people. And honestly, as much as I want to be truthful, I'm not going to give you people all the answers you want unless you ask the right questions. So you ask them, I say what I think (or force myself to elaborate on some thought that was just a fringe one), and help you make reads on me.

Now, I'm not making a vote right away. If you ask me to say who I'd vote now, I'll say who I think is more or less scummy, but in the real world, I'm not voting anyone now. Because that's really fucking stupid. There are over 10 players who haven't talked at all, why the hell would I make a vote now?

#289

MovingPictures07 wrote:G-Man, are you cursed?

#290

Epignosis wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Jay, Epi is an English teacher, and the Adverb suspicion is one that he commonly holds throughout many games. I don't think it indicates mafia behavior from him, more of just an opinion.
thank you. i'll continue failing to capitalize a single thing too.
Oh, you'll fail to capitalize, all right.

is it too early in the game to fall in love?

#291

lol

*abandoned by my own crew*

#292

sorry jay, we're syndicators now.

#293

alright....bedtime for me. I am hoping I don't have 10 pages to catch up on when I wake up

linki: he had to answer every question that any of the new-to-the-syndicates asked - even the ones directly asked to the hosts.

linki with MP. I like your answers

They do make me feel better. When I said I couldn't put my finger on it, its b/c I felt it could go either way. You seem to be a much more cheerful player and that scared me a bit,

sorry. But I thought, maybe it's just b/c we have new players. But then I remembered that you took some time away from Mafia (or now I know you took time away from the syndicate) and I thought....maybe his supportive, helpful, cheerful behavior can be explained by him being excited to be back playing again. And, I think that must be it. When I called you a selfish player I didn't mean anything mean by it

Thank you for not finding offense. You're a stand-up dude. For example, I would say Epi is a selfish player. He will act as he wishes no mater what others think. You were like that too imo, just not AS selfish as Epi. Does that make sense?

NOW, I am off to bed.

AHH, linki linki linki. Hey G, you know peewee is on netflix? Haha, my kids find it pretty hilarious

#294

Sloonei wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Jay, Epi is an English teacher, and the Adverb suspicion is one that he commonly holds throughout many games. I don't think it indicates mafia behavior from him, more of just an opinion.
thank you. i'll continue failing to capitalize a single thing too.
Oh, you'll fail to capitalize, all right.
is it too early in the game to fall in love?

Who you fallin' in love with?

#295

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
sanmateo wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:@sanmateo: here's the thing you're not getting. When I say I would vote someone, we're talking about an hypothetical situation here. And I talked about those hypothesis because people asked me to: "what would you do if you had to vote now?, and "what would you do if you had to pick one of the four?". I'm not going to vote now. I'm not changing my behavior because of others, but I see no problem in talking about hypothesis because of others. It's just questions, after all.
ok, are those posts completely inconsequential then?
They are not completely inconsequential, because I do try to show what I think about people. And honestly, as much as I want to be truthful, I'm not going to give you people all the answers you want unless you ask the right questions. So you ask them, I say what I think (or force myself to elaborate on some thought that was just a fringe one), and help you make reads on me.

Now, I'm not making a vote right away. If you ask me to say who I'd vote now, I'll say who I think is more or less scummy, but in the real world, I'm not voting anyone now. Because that's really fucking stupid. There are over 10 players who haven't talked at all, why the hell would I make a vote now?

i do agree with you that there's no reason to vote now but that's not the point. to me it seemed like what you said was standoff-ish and it made no sense. that it came from a question someone asked you doesn't matter, you can't really pick and choose which posts other people respond to

#296

could you tell me what is meant by "linki", mate?

#297

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:could you tell me what is meant by "linki", mate?

linki / Linkitis

#298

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:could you tell me what is meant by "linki", mate?

I'll let MP answer

Nah, its when you kit submit and there is another post that's been submitted while you were writing your post.

#299

hit submit*

#300

i'm heading off, might be able to post around noon tomorrow but most likely not until later

Who killed our talkative teddy??