Mega Man Mafia [ENDGAME]

[Kylemii]

what was turnip head's alignment in that game where he would make long posts that made you ask if you really had to read all of it?

he was good. it weighed on me a lot cus him making long posts was off model and i worried it might have been a mafia tactic somehow but it ultimately wasn't that. it's still possible that TH could replicate that as mafia but why would he replicate a high effort style when he's known for a laid back cool-guy style?

[Marmot]

It doesn't take much imagination for me to paint Bullz and Luna as scumbuddies right now

Unfortunately, paint is not an effective scumhunting tool. You make a big mess, and never get the color you want.

Have you tried ISO-propane?

[Kylemii]

Kyle how dare you try to effort-shame me like this

How dare you sir

it was a joke, i promise. just a funny little joke. obviously i read everyone's posts, even the really long and boring ones.

[Marmot]

Kyle is a big liar.

Or maybe a little one. I really don't know your size (nor do I need to).

[Marmot]

[VOTE: sprityo] aubergine

Counter-counter wagon engaged!

[Bullzeye]

It doesn't take much imagination for me to paint Bullz and Luna as scumbuddies right now

Unfortunately, paint is not an effective scumhunting tool. You make a big mess, and never get the color you want.

Have you tried ISO-propane?

In all honesty I'd rather not be painted at all. I have work in the morning and a busy weekend planned, it would be really awkward if I had to sit in Wembley arena painted as scum... People would ask questions I couldn't answer.

[Kylemii]

this is just my opinion but i think the case against sloonei seems like it's made out of weird garbage???

[Marmot]

I don't know which wagon came first, but sprityo counters them both.

[Turnip Head]

It doesn't take much imagination for me to paint Bullz and Luna as scumbuddies right now

Unfortunately, paint is not an effective scumhunting tool. You make a big mess, and never get the color you want.

Have you tried ISO-propane?

ISO don't care

[Marmot]

this is just my opinion but i think the case against sloonei seems like it's made out of weird garbage???

That's the most bizarre thing I've heard all day.

Why don't you join me on a sprityo wagon then?

[Sloonei]

this is just my opinion but i think the case against sloonei seems like it's made out of weird garbage???

preach

[Sloonei]

[VOTE: sprityo] aubergine

Counter-counter wagon engaged!

I like the vote and would be willing to entertain it. But it seems people are not budging from the two established wagon at the moment. Care to expand on why this your vote?

[Turnip Head]

Marmot why aren't you making a tie? That would be way cooler.

[Turnip Head]

Let's do the tie thing

[Kylemii]

That's the most bizarre thing I've heard all day.

explain how

Why don't you join me on a sprityo wagon then?

what's the deal with sprityo?

[Kylemii]

i mean why sprityo specifically?

[Marmot]

[VOTE: sprityo] aubergine

Counter-counter wagon engaged!

I like the vote and would be willing to entertain it. But it seems people are not budging from the two established wagon at the moment. Care to expand on why this your vote?

Because his suspicion of you is circumstantial, and his treatment of you henceforth is based on that predetermined idea. This is based on only a few posts as I'm not fully caught up.

As for a Sloonei vote, I'm mildly interested. sprityo's concern was that you're pushing the narrative (which is not uncommon from you), but I haven't seen that in what I;ve read.

What I have not seen yet are reasons for Lunalee votes. Can anyone point me to those? [mention]Turnip Head[/mention], care to give a reason why I should force a tie with my vote?

[Dyslexicon]

Hi hi hi hi hi

[Marmot]

K bye now.

[Marmot]

Just kidding

[Kylemii]

is there a place where the points against lunalee are at in a convenient package that would be easy to view while i'm playing video games

[Sloonei]

[VOTE: sprityo] aubergine

Counter-counter wagon engaged!

I like the vote and would be willing to entertain it. But it seems people are not budging from the two established wagon at the moment. Care to expand on why this your vote?

Because his suspicion of you is circumstantial, and his treatment of you henceforth is based on that predetermined idea. This is based on only a few posts as I'm not fully caught up.

As for a Sloonei vote, I'm mildly interested. sprityo's concern was that you're pushing the narrative (which is not uncommon from you), but I haven't seen that in what I;ve read.

What I have not seen yet are reasons for Lunalee votes. Can anyone point me to those? Turnip Head, care to give a reason why I should force a tie with my vote?

a luna case
I also should look at her posts from this day phase, because I haven't loved her activity again.

[Sloonei]

is there a place where the points against lunalee are at in a convenient package that would be easy to view while i'm playing video games

see the post i just linked marmot to. it's not comprehensive, but it's where my suspicion originated.

[Marmot]

is there a place where the points against lunalee are at in a convenient package that would be easy to view while i'm playing video games

You could stop playing Zelda and play mafia for a bit :O

[Turnip Head]

I was thinking a tie would be nice from a strategic, information to be gained sort of way. I don't have a majorly compelling reason to be on Luna other than a few mild pings plus things I remember others mentioning

[Dyslexicon]

Your second post in the game was to vote for me and you seemed pretty confident in it at the time. The only real elaboration you gave is that I "write like scumz write". I don't remember if we've ever played a game together before (don't think so) but if we had you'd probably be able to tell that I just write like me. I don't really like being a civ because when I started playing I was either bad, eventually recruited, or an indy with btsc for my first 10 or so games. I learned to play as a baddie and by the time I got to be town for any significant length of time it was too late for me to learn to be anything but evil. I think like a baddie even when I'm not one. It's helpful in some ways, less so in others. Perhaps that's why you think I write like one but I feel like if you were a bit more familiar with me you'd probably think differently.

I'm not 100% on who Spoons is. I think maybe Sloonei based on context? I'm back and forth on him, I've had some bad vibes and some good ones. Could easily re-read and get a more solid opinion.

Most of all I wanted to put some pressure on you, cause that is where I would've started if I was playing D1. And yeah, I don't know you or your style, and I pointed that out to. I would like to though. You seem a bit careful in your approach, and I haven't seen you stick your neck out too much or come with strong accusations. Does that make sense? In my experience, a lot of the time there will be scum among semi-active players not really pushing much, having organized toughts, but seeming a bit detached. So that was what I saw. I was never sure, of course, and absolutely am not still.

[Turnip Head]

I think Nutella had a post about luna

[Kylemii]

is there a place where the points against lunalee are at in a convenient package that would be easy to view while i'm playing video games

You could stop playing Zelda and play mafia for a bit :O

im playing pokemon

[Jackofhearts2005]

It’s possible Mega Man’s lynch triggered the skipped phase.

I’m working under this assumption. Princesses are nearly always town and Mega Man is a beloved character and one of only two surefire townies.

but most roles with nonpublic powers are recruitable, making a recruitable role have a negative utility power like a princess would be kind of weird wouldn't it? how would that even work?

It wouldn’t. Mega Man isn’t recruitable.

mega man isn't the only role that's died? why would the princess have to be mega man

Because Megaman can’t be recruited and is far and away the most beloved character in the game.

Not that it really matters.

[Jackofhearts2005]

is there a place where the points against lunalee are at in a convenient package that would be easy to view while i'm playing video games

You could stop playing Zelda and play mafia for a bit :O

im playing pokemon

Im about to face 3rd Giovanni in FR for my first Nuzzlocke challenge.

[Turnip Head]

It’s possible Mega Man’s lynch triggered the skipped phase.

I’m working under this assumption. Princesses are nearly always town and Mega Man is a beloved character and one of only two surefire townies.

but most roles with nonpublic powers are recruitable, making a recruitable role have a negative utility power like a princess would be kind of weird wouldn't it? how would that even work?

It wouldn’t. Mega Man isn’t recruitable.

mega man isn't the only role that's died? why would the princess have to be mega man

Because Megaman can’t be recruited and is far and away the most beloved character in the game.

Not that it really matters.

Plus+ the role usually works like "if lynched, 2 nights in a row; if killed at night, 2 lynches in a row" and Elo is our only lynch so far

[speedchuck]

I will not be around at dayend. Anything I should look at before I lay myself to rest?

[Kylemii]

Because Megaman can’t be recruited and is far and away the most beloved character in the game

Not that it really matters.

that can't possibly be true :0 one of the robots is made out of human skeleton bones and another one is part horse

[Bullzeye]

is there a place where the points against lunalee are at in a convenient package that would be easy to view while i'm playing video games

You could stop playing Zelda and play mafia for a bit :O

im playing pokemon

Im about to face 3rd Giovanni in FR for my first Nuzzlocke challenge.

Nuzlocke runs are my favourite thing. I started one in Black recently but level grinding in Gen 5 is such a drag it's hard to stay invested.

[Lunalee]

Anyone down for a quick Nova wagon?

Honestly, I'd rather lynch Sloonei today. Still don't feel good about the dude, and starting to suspect him more than I did Nova.

what is it specifically about sloonei that makes you want to lynch him?

Sloonei just looks bad to me. From his previous posts, the way he narrowly missed a day 1 lynch in favor of Eloh, and now is framing me as scum. He responded to Dyslexicon most recently, and his defenses look weak. I don't buy it.

On my phone, so I don’t feel like dealing with the formatting of multi-quotes, but I’m responding to Dyslexicon here.

sprityo and luna are the players I feel most strongly about as potential baddies on my bandwagon. I’ve omitted Luna from that category thus far because my suspicion of her preceded today’s developments, but that she’s slid her way into this bandwagon is further evidence against her in my eyes. Sprit is the other player and I’ve voiced this, but I’ve also voiced my uncertainty with regards to that. I think his case is a complete misreading of me to the extent that it suggests he is willfully misidentifying my motives. But others seem to agree with him, and my judgment is obviously clouded by my own inherent awareness of my motives. I don’t buy what sprityo is selling, but that’s because what he’s selling is a version of me that doesn’t align with my version of me. But I struggle to definitively pursue him as a suspect when it’s clear to me that others are capable of buying his case.

[Conveniently, Sprit and Luna both didn't buy your "Mac framed me" rant]

Regarding my constant defense, I feel like I’m stuck in a loop of unproductivity. I want to suss out who’s bad in this bandwagon, and this involves frequently engaging in dialogues with its main supporters, which in turn just spirals into desperate self-defense from me. It’s not how I want to play and I keep trying to get out of it, but I suppose my ego is too fragile to let these cases go.

[Sloonei feels the need to make excuses to defend his playstyle]

As for why I’m perhaps a little over-sensitive to baddies on my bandwagon: we’ve seen the observation made that the scum team is targeting “town-leader” types (first Jay, then Mac). I am not in a “leadership” position in this game because I’m on the outside looking into the circle of trust. But (I think) I’m the type of player who is viewed as a potential “leader” type. But I’m someone that can be done away with via lync in this game.

I do not think that Mac was killed for the specific purpose of framing me. But I think a facet of the mafia strategy after killing him could very conceivably have been to increase pressure on me. I wanted to put this theory into the thread and it apparently backfired. But that’s my approach to the game and, I guess, so is all this self-defense. I try to be understood and, in turn, to understand other folks. So when I’m being as widely misunderstood as I am here I guess my desire to be understood turns into an unhealthy obsession. I should stop focusing on it, but it feels essential to my position in the game, and has thus far distracted me from engaging myself to the extent that I ordinarily would. I should instead become obsessed with having my reads understood rather than my behavior.
[Plays the misunderstood card]

I suspected Colin on Day 1 but he was nightkilled. I suspect Luna now and have talked about that at length. I have a shaky inclination to read speedchuck as scum, but I hesitate to label him a “suspect” at this point.

Spoiler: show

Bullzeye remains a light town read who I am compelled to defend. I don’t agree with the cases I’ve seen against him. Turnip Head is a town read. I did a brief ISO of him Day 1 which helped me establish that read, and he’s only strengthened it since then. He seems to be actively engaged and I can see his thoughts developing as he goes. You’ve given the thread a new energy since you joined, which I like a lot. Nutella also has done the opposite of what I’d anticipate from scum today with regards to little old me: she’s pulled back on her suspicion. I get a similar vibe from her as from Turnip Head. I can also see some real “game solving” coming out of Long Con, so I guess I read him as town.

I have little else at the moment in the way of defined reads. I could offer gut reads on everyone else, but they wouldn’t be especially strong and I’d want to follow all of them up with research. So maybe I should do that. I’ll be around for the end of day, so hopefully things can happen then.

[Bullzeye]

Your second post in the game was to vote for me and you seemed pretty confident in it at the time. The only real elaboration you gave is that I "write like scumz write". I don't remember if we've ever played a game together before (don't think so) but if we had you'd probably be able to tell that I just write like me. I don't really like being a civ because when I started playing I was either bad, eventually recruited, or an indy with btsc for my first 10 or so games. I learned to play as a baddie and by the time I got to be town for any significant length of time it was too late for me to learn to be anything but evil. I think like a baddie even when I'm not one. It's helpful in some ways, less so in others. Perhaps that's why you think I write like one but I feel like if you were a bit more familiar with me you'd probably think differently.

I'm not 100% on who Spoons is. I think maybe Sloonei based on context? I'm back and forth on him, I've had some bad vibes and some good ones. Could easily re-read and get a more solid opinion.

Most of all I wanted to put some pressure on you, cause that is where I would've started if I was playing D1. And yeah, I don't know you or your style, and I pointed that out to. I would like to though. You seem a bit careful in your approach, and I haven't seen you stick your neck out too much or come with strong accusations. Does that make sense? In my experience, a lot of the time there will be scum among semi-active players not really pushing much, having organized toughts, but seeming a bit detached. So that was what I saw. I was never sure, of course, and absolutely am not still.

This is fair enough.

I'm always careful, and especially early on you won't see me jumping out at anything in particular. I take a while to build myself into games and it can vary depending on any number of factors, there's never any one reason for why it took me more or less time in X game to start being active.

[Kylemii]

[mention]Lunalee[/mention] did you suspect sloonei before it became a you or him thing?

[Kylemii]

is there a place where the points against lunalee are at in a convenient package that would be easy to view while i'm playing video games

You could stop playing Zelda and play mafia for a bit :O

im playing pokemon

Im about to face 3rd Giovanni in FR for my first Nuzzlocke challenge.

Nuzlocke runs are my favourite thing. I started one in Black recently but level grinding in Gen 5 is such a drag it's hard to stay invested.

i just started a soul silver nuzlocke

[Sloonei]

Luna's Day 3 activity
Response to some criticism from LC. The first part is particularly uninspiring. I don't love this, but I don't know enough about luna to say whether this kind of cursory response is typical of her. It does not do anything to inspire a town read at the moment.

I'm leaning on sloonei and Jack today. What's the reasoning behind the votes on Luna?

I've finally posted enough to start looking scummy. It happens every game.

Sprit's case is that Sloonei is trying to control the narrative, as soon as Mac died. Nobody else had suggested, as of that point, that Mac's death implicated Sloonei. He was pre-emptive about it. That suggests forethought, though it doesn't necessitate it. It also paints a picture of a guy who is very aware of the WIFOM involved in Mac's death, and who understood the strategy from both sides.

Yes?

I guess, but like, don’t we always look at a person’s suspects after they’re nightkilled? Am I not allowed to make these comments? I was wary of bad guys poking at me and wanted to pre-emptively address that. Is sprityo even considering the other side of his argument?

We've got *looks at watch* like 30 hours left. Why don't we talk about something else?

Because I don't like this case one bit and I want to figure out if I believe sprityo or not.

My vote's still on Luna. Care to comment?

Hi Sloonei. I'm not bad.

PROVE IT, BUSTER

Spoiler: show

I've already highlighted these posts, but I want to bring them back up again. This all occurred in the midst of the chaos at the end of Day 1:

Wait, why the nova lynch?

Luna shows up and sees that nova suddenly has votes on him.

Wait, why the nova lynch?

OH. Wow, Nova's ISO is pretty empty. It doesn't look to great. I'd rather lynch him than Eloh, who's actually been trying to contribute.

She does her homework and decides that he's a viable lynch option because, unlike Eloh, he hasn't contributed much.

Wait, why the nova lynch?

OH. Wow, Nova's ISO is pretty empty. It doesn't look to great. I'd rather lynch him than Eloh, who's actually been trying to contribute.

can you elaborate on what you mean by "doesn't look great"?

Like there's nothing there of substance. If he's town, he could be trying harder to help out.

When pressed for elaboration, she restated the emptiness of his posts and put some blame on him for his effort. Looking back at this post in particular now, I do not like that second sentence one bit. It seems to both acknowledge that nova is town while also absolving her for contributing to his mislynch. "It's his fault that I voted for him because he could have tried harder."

Luna, along with Colin, would remain on nova as Eloh was lynched. I don't like the ease and passivity with which she joined this bandwagon. One of the first things I look for when digging through End of Day posts is players who appear passive or timid. This is crunch time, and typically a townie wants to make the move that is best for them, so more often than not they'll be actively engaged in problem solving, even if that means expressing uncertainty. A mafia member will be more hesitant, not wanting to misstep anywhere. Luna's posts here have the look and tone of the latter.

Just some context you're missing: I voted Nova when Nova was still one vote ahead of Eloh. I left the site after placing my vote. Did you know the site shows people as "online" for as long as 15 minutes after they have been away? I wasn't able to check the lynch status again until a couple of hours later. That is why my vote remained on Nova. If I had been present, I would have moved my vote to whoever I needed to to save Eloh.

Her response to my Night 1 criticism of her. This does nothing for me, as my beef has to do with the actions she pursued while she was present, not the absence surrounding those actions.

I suppose you could look at lynching an active, but low-content player as "easy," but I thought he made a fine choice for a day 1 lynch. Couldn't have been worse than lynching Eloh.

Her follow-up response is equally uninspiring.

Spoiler: show

I can’t jusge this impartially right now, so I need others to offer their input:
Mac’s primary activity on Day 1 was to smear me. He did other things and made lots of noise, but I don’t think it’s unfair to say that I was his #1 suspect.

Then who was his number one suspect? If anything you might not even have had been an actual suspect, more so he wanted to push you.

Mac was subsequently nightkilled. My instinct was to look out for people who would then turn that kill against me. I expressed this early in the day.

Then you picked a poor choice of words to express it.

sprityo, who hadn’t touched me all game, then comes along to declare me his top suspect because I had expressed my theory about potentially being framed by Mac’s death. I don’t think it was at all unreasonable for me to feel that way, and I’d have no reason not to share that opinion with the thread. sprityo, however, suggests that there’s “no reason” for me to share it if I’m town. I don’t buy that part especially.

You can feel that way. However, your words reflect differently than what youre saying right now. Let me rephrase myself on saying 'you have no reason to "share" if youre town.' There's no reason to create a wifom scenario. which is what you did. which is what i've been saying youve done.

What’s more, he hasn’t identified anything in Mac’s suspicion against me that he agrees with. I’d like to see him at least try to do that.

Mac had suspicion but not context. yknow why?

You are asking me to play the game in ignorance of all my intuition and instincts?

He didnt have a reason. Simple as that. I dont suspect you because of what mac said, i suspect you because of what happened to mac, what mac could have done, and what you did do following mac's death. I'm not looking at you from any other angle besides what happened after mac died.

But for now I get the sense of a baddie making a concerted effort to spin a case against an established suspect (me). I do not get the sense that sprit has carefully considered my position in any of my posts. Instead it feels to me like he just seized onto a suspicion that already existed and is using that as his authority to suspect me.

Can anyone else see that, or am I just being too defenice here?

Here's the unlikely scenario:

Sloonei is town, he gets pursued by mac who is not someone to back down off his intuition. Sloonei isnt lynch, much to mac's dismay. then during the night, mac still paints him as someone bad, essentially a guarantee he's gonna try to lynch sloonei on day2. He even goes as far as to taunt sloonei to kill him. Mafia kills mac and waits for someone to attack sloonei.

------------------

so would mafia kill mac to blame sloonei? or would sloonei kill mac to take the pressure and focus off himself?

This is an even worse result than the Day 1 result.

You are so evil and villainous and it offends me that you survived day one.

Please move past this.

You are asking me to play the game in ignorance of all my intuition and instincts?

Just kill me. Dr Manhattan taking out Rorschach style.

I can only think of myself, so I assumed Mac was killed to make me look bad.

If Sloonei were scum I would like to think his LAST target would be Mac. Would scum be so bold as to actually kill someone who told them "just kill me?"
That said, the only way a scum Sloonei would kill Mac would be for WIFOM. And what if no one noticed the WIFOM? Well lucky for you, you don't have to look too hard because Sloonei made it very clear that he felt targeted by Mac's kill.

The post in which she first enters the suspicion against me. She builds up to it by acknowledging both sides before definitively settling on the "Sloonei is bad" side. Looking at it through the scum lens, I can see this as luna wanting to be cautious about how she frames her suspicion of me. She doesn't want to be accused of tunneling, so she has to first entertain my side of the argument. She very promptly disposes of it, though, which begs me to ask, once again, what the point of bringing it up was. Her brief acknowledgment of the pro-Sloonei argument does not contribute to the conversation and apparently does not factor into her ultimate decision at all. It seems like it's there as window dressing.

Analysis post part 1:
Bullzeye gives his reason for voting Quin. He dislikes Quin's questions, and even after Quin provides a valid response, Bullzeye responds with basically "I'm going to say your response looks fake because I'm so set on voting for you." Not the best look.

This is such a generic criticism that it could be applied to nearly every vote in nearly every game ever. The majority of votes happen because one person suspects another and that person's responses don't satisfy the accuser. What one person finds valid, another might not. I didn't find his explanation believable.

Oh, hi! You. You are the one.

[VOTE: Bullzeye] aubergine

I was starting to feel bad for suspecting Bullzeye for a lame reason, but then you just jump in and back me up. Why?

This post has a weird tone. She seems happy to have somebody who's supporting another one of her suspicions, but she frames that suspicion as though she is guilty of something.

obligatory sloonei vote

I don't get her objection here. I mean, I get questioning why LC is voting for her over me, but the way this question is framed seems to indicate it doesn't make sense to vote for her in a scenario where she's one of two scum players named. It would have to be either me or her, so it should not be shocking when LC picks her.

Spoiler: show

Speedchuck you are pinging me in all the right places so far. It's unsettling

Can you talk more about this? I'm interested. It seems that you have some reads that goes against the grain. Are you committed to getting these players lynched? I don't see a lot of effort to convince others. I don't know your play style or anything, so this is more of an observation. I'm very much interested in hearing your thoughts about Speed and if your LC suspicion exist still.

It stems mostly from how speedchuck assembled his reads list.

It started here:

Spoiler: show

Bullzeye
DFaraday
Dom
DrWilgy
Infected_alien8_
JackofHearts2005
K-Ness
Kylemii
Long Con
Lunalee
Marmot
novaselinenever
nutella
Quin
Simon
Sloonei
speedchuck
Soneji
sprityo
Turnip Head
White

Working on a list.

So he starts with only some town reads, which is like, okay, some people process their thoughts like that. No yellow or orange reads yet which means that there was nothing pressing on his mind about bad guys yet.

Twenty minutes later, it looks like this:

Spoiler: show

Bullzeye
DFaraday
Dom
DrWilgy
Infected_alien8_
JackofHearts2005
K-Ness
Kylemii
Long Con
Lunalee
Marmot
novaselinenever
nutella
Quin
Simon
Sloonei
speedchuck
Soneji
sprityo
Turnip Head
White

Updated list.

Only two more civ reads given out, for Kyle and sprityo. But sprityo is colored a brighter shade of green, and he revises his coloring of JackofHearts2005 to match the sprityo color. Looking back at the context of the thread, Jack and sprityo were the two players that speedchuck was currently interacting with in between his first list and his second one.

Keeping all this in mind, all other names are colored either the yellow or the orange color and it looks slightly haphazard. Simon stands alone with his own shade of yellow on Speedchuck's list, this gives an unearned sense of depth to the list imo, as if Speed has thoughts about Simon that he's not sharing, which feels disingenuous because Simon's not exactly lighting up the thread with posts. It feels like a fake read.

His read on Luna feels a little fake here too, yellow. Speed and Luna are married iirc and they usually have some interaction with each other, if he had her as yellow I'd expect some heavier thoughts about it, but he's mostly avoided the topic of Luna, as you can see here.

Spoiler: show

Hot Take ™: At least two of the following are bad: Jack, Sloonei, Quin, Luna, Speed.

I mean, yeah prolly. Why is this a thing?

Chuck sounds kinda scared of nutella here Why did he want to comment on this? It feels like he was provoked by this post yet is trying to downplay his reaction to it.

Spoiler: show

ok so I see sprityo vs sloonei as town on town. I think sprit is reading too much into sloonei's perspective. It makes sense to me that Sloonei would be cognizant of his own position and gameplay, and what might be happening in relation to himself. The fact that Sloonei brought it up in the thread makes me less likely to suspect him, while it seems to have made sprit more likely to suspect him, so we diverge there.

I also disagree with Jackofhearts2005's read of speed. I think speed is tapped into the pulse of the thread, but I think he's doing so from a baddie angle. I don't like the progression of his reads list, and if I can figure out how to articulate why, I will do so.

I haven't really tried to justify my reads until asked. If you want clarification or if you do have questions to articulate, let me know. I won't defend myself, but I will be happy explain anything you find confusing or weird. If you want.

I'd like to know how your Sprityo read progressed, though. Please.

"I won't defend myself" sounds like a buzz phrase that Speedchuck is trying to knock off his Bad Bot Bingo board.

hmmm this is good analysis. I especially like your thoughts on his weird multi-step rainbow construction, because that did seem a little odd but I didn't really know what to do with it. But yeah starting with some town POE and then throwing on the yellows and oranges like that... could be fake.

Of all things to comment on about this analysis. I didn't know the way a rainbow list was created could be alignment-indicative

So you disagree? You don't think it's odd that he didn't start with any scum reads?

Not really, no. Most people don't post unfinished rainbows like that, so you don't know which way they started them. If speed were scum, he probably would have been more careful with creating the list and would not have posted it until it was done.

She defends speedchuck in this sequence of posts which, as always, is difficult to evaluate at face value. I have not played many (if any) games with both luna and speedchuck in the past, but the level of soft defense going back and forth between them is striking, even for them. I say this because there also seems to be a sort of arm's-length caution between them, where they seem to occasionally be dropping in suggestions about doubts toward one another while not really reflecting these in their play. Chuck would be one of the first people I'd want to look at if luna flips scum, but that's getting ahead of myself.

IF Luna is scum, she's using a technique I use when I'm scum. You'll often find me taking the townie with the most suspicion on them and defending them to the death. If that's what Luna is doing to me, that could be a bad sign.

As an addendum, I probably read Luna worse than everyone else on this site BECAUSE I know her in person. Look at my track record. It's disgusting.

@Lunalee Why are you so certain about me being not-scum?

I'm not completely certain. You're posts feel townie to me, and I really want to think we're on the same team here.

Speed: Are you buddying me?
Luna: Yes dear

This response is so transparently bad omg

I actually did the same thing in Courage, and we were both town.
Ref 1
Ref 2

ufjdsf agh, I don't know what to do with this. Maybe what I just said in my previous point holds true, or maybe i'll toss it out the window. I don't know.

Anyone down for a quick Nova wagon?

Honestly, I'd rather lynch Sloonei today. Still don't feel good about the dude, and starting to suspect him more than I did Nova.

Luna's been a very mellow participant in the Sloonei wagon. She's there to lend her support when it comes into question, but she's not really a driving force behind it. That's less than ideal.

@Lunalee talk about people that are not called sloonei or nova.

...or speed?

I asked her for reads and she declined.

A complete rainbow:
Turnip Head
Dyslexicon
nutella
Long Con
Jackofhearts
Bullzeye
Quin
Kylemii
novaselinenever
K-ness
Simon
Infected_alien
DFaraday
Dom
DrWilgy
Marmot
Soneji

speedchuck
sprityo
Lunalee

I've moved sprit to the same level as Luna because the case I presented in my most recent post felt more convincing than anything I'd previously articulated. I especially do not like his framing of the "unlikely scenario" which would allow me to be read as town.
There's also a lot of light green that I don't love to have, but I have no direct reason to scum read anyone in that group of players, and I prefer to offer a stance whenever I can. There's also too many players on whom I can offer no stance at all. The darker green tiers and the orange/red tiers are the reads I would regard as solid at this point. Everything else is weak and ill-defined. That's, you know, how rainbow lists work.

Feel free to ask me about these reads if you have any questions.

Why did you bother to include Soneji, Dr. Wilgy, and DFaraday? Those three have been too absent to read.

Then I made a rainbow list and she wondered why I acknowledged the quiet folks. I don't understand the mindset from which this question is derived.

I came into this shaded against luna, but I have not come out with anything that changes my heart. She fits the bill of a hypothetical baddie who is trying to capitalize on the negative attention surrounding me, keeping a low profile, but staying involved just enough to avoid being called out for it.

I also wonder about her (lack of) response to the pressure she's receiving. The votes against her have been piling up all day and I've hardly seen her engage with anything. I still don't really know any of her reads except that she is vaguely suspicious of nova and myself, and apparently Bullzeye too, but she feels guilty about that one.

[Sloonei]

Anyone down for a quick Nova wagon?

Honestly, I'd rather lynch Sloonei today. Still don't feel good about the dude, and starting to suspect him more than I did Nova.

what is it specifically about sloonei that makes you want to lynch him?

Sloonei just looks bad to me. From his previous posts, the way he narrowly missed a day 1 lynch in favor of Eloh, and now is framing me as scum. He responded to Dyslexicon most recently, and his defenses look weak. I don't buy it.

On my phone, so I don’t feel like dealing with the formatting of multi-quotes, but I’m responding to Dyslexicon here.

sprityo and luna are the players I feel most strongly about as potential baddies on my bandwagon. I’ve omitted Luna from that category thus far because my suspicion of her preceded today’s developments, but that she’s slid her way into this bandwagon is further evidence against her in my eyes. Sprit is the other player and I’ve voiced this, but I’ve also voiced my uncertainty with regards to that. I think his case is a complete misreading of me to the extent that it suggests he is willfully misidentifying my motives. But others seem to agree with him, and my judgment is obviously clouded by my own inherent awareness of my motives. I don’t buy what sprityo is selling, but that’s because what he’s selling is a version of me that doesn’t align with my version of me. But I struggle to definitively pursue him as a suspect when it’s clear to me that others are capable of buying his case.

[Conveniently, Sprit and Luna both didn't buy your "Mac framed me" rant]

Regarding my constant defense, I feel like I’m stuck in a loop of unproductivity. I want to suss out who’s bad in this bandwagon, and this involves frequently engaging in dialogues with its main supporters, which in turn just spirals into desperate self-defense from me. It’s not how I want to play and I keep trying to get out of it, but I suppose my ego is too fragile to let these cases go.

[Sloonei feels the need to make excuses to defend his playstyle]

As for why I’m perhaps a little over-sensitive to baddies on my bandwagon: we’ve seen the observation made that the scum team is targeting “town-leader” types (first Jay, then Mac). I am not in a “leadership” position in this game because I’m on the outside looking into the circle of trust. But (I think) I’m the type of player who is viewed as a potential “leader” type. But I’m someone that can be done away with via lync in this game.

I do not think that Mac was killed for the specific purpose of framing me. But I think a facet of the mafia strategy after killing him could very conceivably have been to increase pressure on me. I wanted to put this theory into the thread and it apparently backfired. But that’s my approach to the game and, I guess, so is all this self-defense. I try to be understood and, in turn, to understand other folks. So when I’m being as widely misunderstood as I am here I guess my desire to be understood turns into an unhealthy obsession. I should stop focusing on it, but it feels essential to my position in the game, and has thus far distracted me from engaging myself to the extent that I ordinarily would. I should instead become obsessed with having my reads understood rather than my behavior.
[Plays the misunderstood card]

I suspected Colin on Day 1 but he was nightkilled. I suspect Luna now and have talked about that at length. I have a shaky inclination to read speedchuck as scum, but I hesitate to label him a “suspect” at this point.

Spoiler: show

Bullzeye remains a light town read who I am compelled to defend. I don’t agree with the cases I’ve seen against him. Turnip Head is a town read. I did a brief ISO of him Day 1 which helped me establish that read, and he’s only strengthened it since then. He seems to be actively engaged and I can see his thoughts developing as he goes. You’ve given the thread a new energy since you joined, which I like a lot. Nutella also has done the opposite of what I’d anticipate from scum today with regards to little old me: she’s pulled back on her suspicion. I get a similar vibe from her as from Turnip Head. I can also see some real “game solving” coming out of Long Con, so I guess I read him as town.

I have little else at the moment in the way of defined reads. I could offer gut reads on everyone else, but they wouldn’t be especially strong and I’d want to follow all of them up with research. So maybe I should do that. I’ll be around for the end of day, so hopefully things can happen then.

Mac didn't frame me. I am wary of people who want to frame me through Mac's death. Do you think that's an unlikely scenario if I am town?

And what would I be if not misunderstood as a civilian at the center of a major suspicion? I'm not playing any cards there. I'm just observing my position.

Walk me through your suspicion as it originated, not as it is right now. What first inspired you to suspect me?

[Kylemii]

[VOTE: lunalee] aubergine

[Kylemii]

tie meta

[Kylemii]

also i trust her voters a lot more than i trust sloonei's, and the case makes more sense

[Dyslexicon]

Like, I'm all for townreads, I know in past games (I recall with MP specifically) there have been arguments about starting with townreads/a "town core" to function as sort-of-POE, and I come down firmly on the pro-townreads side because it's true that they are often easier to feel out at the beginning of a game. But the way speed constructed his rainbow post-by-post with all that green coming first did not look like a real thought process to me. And I agree with TH that the lone placement of Simon seemed arbitrary. A lot of it seemed arbitrary. And if I were to compose a rainbow in this game I would definitely have some scumreads in my head right off the bat that I'd put on there, and it looked like speed did not.

I appreciated Turnip's take on Speed. I still read Speed town. I might be wrong. I feel the same way about him as I do with Jack. They seem both relaxed (as in saying whatever they want when they want), and also forthcoming and interested in figuring things out. That may be vague, but it's the best way I can put it right now. I also seem to mind meld with both quite often. Regarding arbitrary colors in the read list, I kind of find this silly (but I'm full of silly reasons). I actually tend to think town looks and acts a lot more arbitrary than scum does, especially if they're any good at it. And speed is any good at it. I would like to see Speed respond to Turnip though, definitely. I didn't know Speed and Luna was married. That is very sweet.

[Dyslexicon]

i saw some comments on it Luna, looks like youre waiting for a response from her. what do you have on bullzeye that makes you not like him?

Basically was gut. The only technical thing is minor, and that is being informative and having read the rules, but then not answering how many scum there was in the game, even though he would know.

Eh. Maybe it isn’t. Felt that way at the time.

I also tend to underestimate CFD (hot potato?) plausibility since I come from a traditionally hammer lynch site. But the votes did seem to come in real fast compared to the evidence.

The fact that he was an option makes it a little bit more likely that he is town. His reaction is very null to me.

@Dyslexicon I did my best to state my case against sprityo in this post and I would very much like to hear your input on it.

I didn't digest this very well. I don't really have a read on Sprit. I'm hesitantly planning to move my vote off you though, so that should cheer you up or something.

Feigning ignorance of the mafia count when it's explicitly stated can be a way to try to appear helpful while adding nothing of value to the discussion. Since we already know the number that we should be looking for, it begs the question why it would need to be asked at all.

Talking just for the sake of talking feels like clutter at best, obfuscation at worst. It makes it difficult to get an actual read on a player as one has to slug through a ton of irrelevant or nonsensical posts.

I don't really like this post. Feels too much like insisting on a point of view. The first paragraph doesn't make much sense to me. It would make sense to say that feigning it would be a good way to avoid suspicion. But to say that it can
be a way to appear helpful is random to me. The second paragraph is said as it's a reason to suspect Spoons, while really it's just a playstyle thing. So criticizing someone for a playstyle or personality trait and arguing it as if it's a reason to keep up the suspicion is shaky to me.

[Dyslexicon]

[VOTE: Lunalee] aubergine

[speedchuck]

I would like to see Speed respond to Turnip though, definitely. I didn't know Speed and Luna was married. That is very sweet.

I'll have to find what Turnip said.

It is pretty sweet tho.

[speedchuck]

I have no idea what you want me to respond to. Back to resting.

[Dyslexicon]

I think Spoons have convinced me somewhat that there is a fair chance they are town. I don't really know about Luna, but definitely did like the "a town that deserves to be lynched" bit, and now she seems pretty committed to wanting Spoons dead, and I'm not convinced it isn't because she just want to survive herself. That said, I'm not really thrilled with this lynch, in my gut at least.

[Dyslexicon]

I have no idea what you want me to respond to. Back to resting.

Turnip made a case for you being scum. He mentioned how you put together your read list and the creative choices with the colors.