Mega Man Mafia [ENDGAME]

[sprityo]

Rip quin

Rip Quin

Wow

[DharmaHelper]

PULL

[Dyslexicon]

I can and will post today.

Rip, Quin <3

[dunya]

It's a fucking T-Shirt.

Somebody buy it for me.

Need your address.

is this where the host is getting bribed?

I'm a size medium kthxbai

[sprityo]

Dizzy! Welcome back!!! Please enlighten us with your notes from day5/night 5

[DrWilgy]

Fuck dammit shit.

[Long Con]

Wilgy?!

[Dyslexicon]

I can and will post today.

Rip, Quin <3

At some point.

[Turnip Head]

Fuck dammit shit.

[DrWilgy]

I'm here but there's no means for me to read 50 pages (also driving to Memphis atm). Imma review votes and will be back.

[Turnip Head]

Sounds good

[Long Con]

To weigh in... Elohcin, the most important person in Epi's life, was Mega Man. I don't know to what extent Epignosis randomizes roles, but Dr Wilgy being Dr Wily is perfect enough to tweak into existence.

[DharmaHelper]

To weigh in... Elohcin, the most important person in Epi's life, was Mega Man. I don't know to what extent Epignosis randomizes roles, but Dr Wilgy being Dr Wily is perfect enough to tweak into existence.

Epi likes to plug players into roles.

[DharmaHelper]

To weigh in... Elohcin, the most important person in Epi's life, was Mega Man. I don't know to what extent Epignosis randomizes roles, but Dr Wilgy being Dr Wily is perfect enough to tweak into existence.

[Jackofhearts2005]

To weigh in... Elohcin, the most important person in Epi's life, was Mega Man. I don't know to what extent Epignosis randomizes roles, but Dr Wilgy being Dr Wily is perfect enough to tweak into existence.

I think this says more about Epi’s marriage than it does about Wilgy’s alignment.

Spoiler: show

Whatever that means.

[sprityo]

I'm here but there's no means for me to read 50 pages (also driving to Memphis atm). Imma review votes and will be back.

Check my iso for a compressed vote list

[sprityo]

Tomorrow, I’m gonna look for who I want to vote. Today’s been lazy for me

[sprityo]

[mention]Dyslexicon[/mention] give me that catchup stuff asaaaapppp

[Turnip Head]

[mention]sprityo[/mention] off the top of your head who would you be most interested to see flip?

[Turnip Head]

Anyone else can feel free to answer that same q

[Jackofhearts2005]

My vote today will be between Long Con and Speedchuck.

[Turnip Head]

Oh?

[speedchuck]

My vote today will be between Long Con and Speedchuck.

I take it you think the Simon vote couldn't be coincidental? (aside from Marmot and Gemini man?)

[Turnip Head]

Bullzeye voted for Sloonei during the Simon vs Marmot tie. Feels like a move a teammate might make.

[Bullzeye]

Bullzeye voted for Sloonei during the Simon vs Marmot tie. Feels like a move a teammate might make.

Sure does. A really good teammate would've also moved their vote to Simon when he was checking the thread from his phone and saw how the lynch was going

[Turnip Head]

Okay I'm v ready to lynch bullzeye now

[speedchuck]

Okay I'm v ready to lynch bullzeye now

I'm down.

[speedchuck]

[VOTE: Bullzeye] aubergine

[Bullzeye]

I'm very interested to hear more about how I'm suddenly such a baddie.

[DharmaHelper]

I'm very interested to hear more about how I'm suddenly such a baddie.

I'd also like to know more about this.

[speedchuck]

I'm very interested to hear more about how I'm suddenly such a baddie.

Boi it ain't that sudden. I've been hopping in an out of your wagon like it has a revolving door. Flip floppin on you like a waffle.

[speedchuck]

But sure, I can do case stuff

[speedchuck]

Spoiler: show

Very initial first impression of the thread: Jay feels off, don't know why though

Probably trying to avoid the obvious conclusion that he was recruited.

Why is it obvious Jay would be recruited? The sign-up thread mentions that the baddies recruit roles, not players.

How many bad robots do we think there are?

Somewhere between 1 and 24.

It was a nice quiet Day 0. Nothing happened.

Jay said this, which can mean one of two things:
Something happened to him on Day 0
OR
Nothing happened to him on Day 0.

OR
Something happened to someone else on Day 0.

I wish something had happened to me on Day 0...

How many bad robots do we think there are?

Good way of look at whether people read the rules or not.

This isn't a closed setup, dude. It's an open setup with most details hidden.

I was beginning to think I was the only person who had done this!

The above are some quotes and replies from a single Bullzeye post. I cut some irrelevant stuff out.

"I read the rules!"
"I dunno how many bad bots there are." (Maybe being cheeky, idk)
"Gee, pity I'm not mafia..."
"Guys I totally read the rules!"

I'm getting two pings from this post. Forced ignorance and a... I don't even know what to call that middle thing. Tonally fake role regret?

Bringing up this dinosaur of a post before we get into more recent BLZ-I stuff.

[Bullzeye]

But sure, I can do case stuff

Please do. That way rather than just telling you you're wrong I can point to specific examples of wrongness.

[speedchuck]

But sure, I can do case stuff

Please do. That way rather than just telling you you're wrong I can point to specific examples of wrongness.

Spicy

[Turnip Head]

Case him to hell and back, Chucky

[Dyslexicon]

Aight. I have some time now. I didn't keep up with the thread when I was imprisoned. Only thing I remember is Sprit taking it for granted that mafia has the imprisoning power (which, I do think is correct). Will read back now.

[Bullzeye]

Spoiler: show

Very initial first impression of the thread: Jay feels off, don't know why though

Probably trying to avoid the obvious conclusion that he was recruited.

Why is it obvious Jay would be recruited? The sign-up thread mentions that the baddies recruit roles, not players.

How many bad robots do we think there are?

Somewhere between 1 and 24.

It was a nice quiet Day 0. Nothing happened.

Jay said this, which can mean one of two things:
Something happened to him on Day 0
OR
Nothing happened to him on Day 0.

OR
Something happened to someone else on Day 0.

I wish something had happened to me on Day 0...

How many bad robots do we think there are?

Good way of look at whether people read the rules or not.

This isn't a closed setup, dude. It's an open setup with most details hidden.

I was beginning to think I was the only person who had done this!

The above are some quotes and replies from a single Bullzeye post. I cut some irrelevant stuff out.

"I read the rules!"
"I dunno how many bad bots there are." (Maybe being cheeky, idk)
"Gee, pity I'm not mafia..."
"Guys I totally read the rules!"

I'm getting two pings from this post. Forced ignorance and a... I don't even know what to call that middle thing. Tonally fake role regret?

Bringing up this dinosaur of a post before we get into more recent BLZ-I stuff.

This is a super old one.

Someone already cleared up the fact I was misunderstanding what Jack was saying about JJJ. The comment about the number of baddies was an obvious joke. Please provide more recent and relevant material for me to discredit.

[Dyslexicon]

Also, good going with the Marmot lynch. But he should've been lynched a day earlier, and god damn I'm pissed at that. BUT, I'm not going to keep thinking about that, and maybe Simon would've been an easy mislynch to push later.

[speedchuck]

Long Con's posts strike me weird. He apparently didn't read the rules or his role pm, and instead askes all game-mechanic questions in thread. Concerning the mafia recruitment aspect, he asks: It's still up for grabs?
Then posts a bunch of questions on how to approach this game: What are we dealing with here? How do we even mafia in this game?
Then asks, "have recruitment decisions been made?"
But then suddenly understands everything well enough to place a vote on speedchuck based on his game mechanic questions.

I don't view Long Con as being an ignorant player, which is why all his questions confuse me. Is he bad and trying to look like an ignorant townie? Or is he really that bad at reading the rules? I would be okay with voting Long Con today.

I'm voting for Long Con in hopes that we can generate discussion about this post. This does reflect a pattern in Long Con's posts where he starts off in apparent ignorance of the game mechanics and then works his way up. It's possible he was just getting a feel for things and now he understands what was happening. Or something else. Let's talk about it.

I had thought about this as well but wasn't sure if it was worth bringing up. LC (in my opinion) is generally a smart player who wouldn't need to ask those kinds of questions. I've been bad with him once before in the Monty Python game where he basically carried our team to victory even after we lost two members super early and I got outed halfway through the game.

@Bullzeye's big catch-up post just now establishes his presence in this game, but it doesn't offer much in terms of content. Do you have any reads or thoughts about any specific players in the game yet, Bullzeye?
welcome back

I take time to establish myself in games and one of the ways I try to get a good grip on everything is to just say unimportant stuff to get myself out there and work my way into conversations. As mentioned, I think the point about LC holds some weight. I would like to revisit some of the discussion around the recruitment mechanic from this morning, that could be interesting. Given that most players were neither baddies nor civs for the first 24 hours, people couldn't immediately start plotting and planting ideas to return to later like in normal games so I think this will force people to play differently. I have a point here but I'm struggling to find the words so I'll try to come back to it later.

I keep getting stuck in linki but I'm posting this anyway.

First part is notable now that Luna has flipped scum. Bullzeye was very cautious about commenting on that case.

Second part is an okay response to an actual problem.

Which ping from Bullzeye are you calling forced ignorance?

The 1-24 player bit.

If it's cheekiness, that part is null-ish. But for someone saying "I read the rules" you'd thik he'd just say 4, like a reasonable person who read the roles.

I'll get you in a minute, Jack

I'm a very sarcastic person.

(In response to my pings)

Analysis post part 1:
Bullzeye gives his reason for voting Quin. He dislikes Quin's questions, and even after Quin provides a valid response, Bullzeye responds with basically "I'm going to say your response looks fake because I'm so set on voting for you." Not the best look.

This is such a generic criticism that it could be applied to nearly every vote in nearly every game ever. The majority of votes happen because one person suspects another and that person's responses don't satisfy the accuser. What one person finds valid, another might not. I didn't find his explanation believable.

Distancing? I've seen scummers throw bad suspicions on each other for easy refutation.

Just checking in before work, love how I’m being set up for an easy bandwagon by a bunch of people who know nothing about me. I also don’t see how it’s okay to point out someone is online and reading the thread when their activity is set to hidden. I often check from my phone and hate posting from it so tend not to, and specifically chose to not show as online so that people couldn’t act like that means anything.

Does not knowing you invalidate the suspicion? I admit I know nothing about you or your play style, but you do come across as suspicious to me. But more than that, I really want more content from you. What do you think of the votes on you? What's your take on Spoons? Who do you want to get lynched? All of it. When you have the time.

Your second post in the game was to vote for me and you seemed pretty confident in it at the time. The only real elaboration you gave is that I "write like scumz write". I don't remember if we've ever played a game together before (don't think so) but if we had you'd probably be able to tell that I just write like me. I don't really like being a civ because when I started playing I was either bad, eventually recruited, or an indy with btsc for my first 10 or so games. I learned to play as a baddie and by the time I got to be town for any significant length of time it was too late for me to learn to be anything but evil. I think like a baddie even when I'm not one. It's helpful in some ways, less so in others. Perhaps that's why you think I write like one but I feel like if you were a bit more familiar with me you'd probably think differently.

I'm not 100% on who Spoons is. I think maybe Sloonei based on context? I'm back and forth on him, I've had some bad vibes and some good ones. Could easily re-read and get a more solid opinion.

Another bit of tone suspicion from Dizzy, and a response.
I feel like there are more posts saying "I could do this later" and "I'll state some suspicions later" than posts with that actual content in them.

I have a few ideas but I’m literally just about to leave for work so don’t have time to go into anything.

Throw some names out as soon as you get the chance. I'm not anywhere close to being set in stone with my reads.

Keep going back and forth on Sloonei, even, and I don't know if it's the emotional/meta card or a genuine tone from him.

I've gone back to Day One and am having a look over the last couple of hours of that lynch to see if anything useful can come out of that ridiculous mess. I had intended to do this yesterday but was too tired. There's a couple of people I feel mildly good about but that could change in an instant, I definitely don't have anyone I strongly believe to be a civ. On the other end of that spectrum most of my thoughts are based on vibes, hence why I'm going back over a few things. I'm willing to share the following thoughts for now, with more detailed opinions coming soon (ish, I don't know how long it will take me to read everything I want to).

I still don't 100% buy Quin's explanation of his recruitment comments and some of his responses to suspicion weren't too convincing but I don't feel strongly enough about that to make it my hill to die on. If something else pops up I'd be willing to come back to him but I'm not going to relentlessly pursue anyone at this point.

I've been having bad vibes from Jack all game but it could just be a tone thing, sometimes his attitude comes off a bit shady.

A quiet DFaraday is never a good thing in my experience so I'd like to see more from him. He's quite good at scheming from the shadows as I remember.

Similarly I feel like we should have heard a lot more from Dom by now. I can't remember if he mentioned being busy or anything though. Not to say I think he's bad because of it, I don't, I just remember him usually being a lot more talkative and was surprised that it's not the case here.

REALLY not much here. Each suspicion is either a metaread on a low-poster or a read that he immediately pulls back and refutes or dismisses himself.

Wait, why the nova lynch?

OH. Wow, Nova's ISO is pretty empty. It doesn't look to great. I'd rather lynch him than Eloh, who's actually been trying to contribute.

can you elaborate on what you mean by "doesn't look great"?

Like there's nothing there of substance. If he's town, he could be trying harder to help out.

Still reading through Day One, this post from Luna strikes me as odd. Feels like she's saying "If I contribute to the death of a civ with this vote, it's his fault for not trying hard enough". Not wanting to take ownership/be held responsible if she happens to be wrong.

Unsure how much this contributed tothe Luna case. Not a BAD look, per se. Potential bus.

My internet keeps cutting out so I may end up giving up and going to bed shortly but I think I've gained as much from re-reading the previous lynch as I can. In conclusion, it was a clusterfrick.

Spoiler: show

Wait, why the nova lynch?

OH. Wow, Nova's ISO is pretty empty. It doesn't look to great. I'd rather lynch him than Eloh, who's actually been trying to contribute.

can you elaborate on what you mean by "doesn't look great"?

Like there's nothing there of substance. If he's town, he could be trying harder to help out.

Still reading through Day One, this post from Luna strikes me as odd. Feels like she's saying "If I contribute to the death of a civ with this vote, it's his fault for not trying hard enough". Not wanting to take ownership/be held responsible if she happens to be wrong.

By saying "If he's town, he could be trying harder to help out." I meant, "he's not trying, therefore he might be scum"

The implication I'm still picking up is "he's not trying, therefore he might be scum or he might not be and it's nobody's fault but his own if he gets lynched". Right now I'm not strongly opposed to either bandwagon really, Dys asked my opinion on Sloonei earlier and I didn't really have a solid one at the time so I'll go back and have a look over him like I said I would.
[/quote]

And then he shrugs and does some kind of weird waffle dance where he doesn't take it back but he's not pushing it and is okay with either lynch.

Still down for a Nova wagon if there's enough people who would lynch him over Sloonei and/or Luna

Part of me wants to see where Sloonei vs Luna goes but if there's a better option then why not. What makes you want a Nova lynch?

Barf. j/k

I've been afraid to bring this into the fold because for those who are already on my case it's just an added layer of WIFOM and a chance to say "of course you'd update your strategy in this game", but here is my post history from Ancient Greece Mafia. The dynamic between Mac and I was very similar to how it is here, with the main difference being my alignment. Mac hounded me from Day 1 and was killed on Night 2. The differences are that I engaged more heavily with Mac while he was alive, and then after his death I acted like no player named Macdougall had ever existed. I wanted to get as far away from that heat as possible.

For those who will say I am making a conscious effort to play differently here than I did there: I did not remember what my methods were in that game off the top of my head. I had to go back and look just now to see how I behaved. My fingers were crossed that it would be different than what I've done here.

I offer this for the people who are still on the fence about me. I know all of this can't be taken definitively, but I at least want to provide a sample of my past behavior in a situation remarkably similar to the one we're currently in.

It's also my most recent and most significant scum performance on the Syndicate, if anyone's into cross-game comparisons. I can provide a recent town game as well for any of the folks who aren't already super familiar with my meta.

If you're bad, you're the king of WIFOM. Honestly I feel worse about Luna's posts where it looked like she was trying to avoid responsibility for her Nova vote so I will [VOTE: Lunalee] aubergine at least for now. If she is lynched today and flips civ, I reserve the right to return to your vineyard.

The post where he picks a scum lynch over a non-scum lynch. Good to reference after the previous posts. It has "honestly" in there, though, so I'm sure he voted for the right reasons.

It doesn't take much imagination for me to paint Bullz and Luna as scumbuddies right now

I forgive you.

This is not a new suspicion.

[/spoiler]

I've been afraid to bring this into the fold because for those who are already on my case it's just an added layer of WIFOM and a chance to say "of course you'd update your strategy in this game", but here is my post history from Ancient Greece Mafia. The dynamic between Mac and I was very similar to how it is here, with the main difference being my alignment. Mac hounded me from Day 1 and was killed on Night 2. The differences are that I engaged more heavily with Mac while he was alive, and then after his death I acted like no player named Macdougall had ever existed. I wanted to get as far away from that heat as possible.

For those who will say I am making a conscious effort to play differently here than I did there: I did not remember what my methods were in that game off the top of my head. I had to go back and look just now to see how I behaved. My fingers were crossed that it would be different than what I've done here.

I offer this for the people who are still on the fence about me. I know all of this can't be taken definitively, but I at least want to provide a sample of my past behavior in a situation remarkably similar to the one we're currently in.

It's also my most recent and most significant scum performance on the Syndicate, if anyone's into cross-game comparisons. I can provide a recent town game as well for any of the folks who aren't already super familiar with my meta.

If you're bad, you're the king of WIFOM. Honestly I feel worse about Luna's posts where it looked like she was trying to avoid responsibility for her Nova vote so I will [VOTE: Lunalee] aubergine at least for now. If she is lynched today and flips civ, I reserve the right to return to your vineyard.

[/spoiler]
What an odd ifthen statement. Guess now that Luna has flipped scum, no need to look at Sloonei anymore, right?

That's not what I said at all.

Not exactly. Besides, Sloonei was town. If this is anything bad, it's posturing, not narrative-twisting.

I'm going to throw my placeholder vote down on Sloonei because I'm still not convinced either way on him. A lot of his defence yesterday really boiled down to WIFOM. I'm going to make notes on my phone to check in tonight and tomorrow morning as well as maybe after the show, so if anything interesting happens I can change my mind. I mostly just want to not miss the vote at all.

[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

Votes Sloonei next day anyway, doesn't have time to review everything because weekend.

If Marmot is town, Gemini Man is scum and almost certain Speedchuck.

If Marmot is scum and not Gemini Man, same conclusion.

Can Marmot not be town and Gemini Man?

The main thing I don't understand is why in my catch up people seem to be assuming Gemini Man is definitely a baddie with what appears to be no evidence other than his vote to tie the lynch. I'm not opposed to re-lynching Marmot, especially if I can be presented with a convincing answer to this question.

Soft defense of Marmot.

If Marmot is town, Gemini Man is scum and almost certain Speedchuck.

If Marmot is scum and not Gemini Man, same conclusion.

Can Marmot not be town and Gemini Man?

The main thing I don't understand is why in my catch up people seem to be assuming Gemini Man is definitely a baddie with what appears to be no evidence other than his vote to tie the lynch. I'm not opposed to re-lynching Marmot, especially if I can be presented with a convincing answer to this question.

If that’s the case, why didn’t he defend himself then or in the next day?

To what end does townie Marmot throw someone else under the bus only to let himself be mislynched the next day? (Same question if Marmot isn’t GM I suppose.)

Gemini Man (and Speedchuck and LC) caused us to waste a day lynching Simon when the consensus was that Marmot should be lynched. Simon was town. None of those players gave a good reason for lynching Simon over Marmot yet here we are. Ergo, Gemini Man looks shady af.

He seems to be claiming he was silenced and broke the rules of it by posting. Not sure if I buy it. As to why he hasn't defended himself since:

If I had the ability to apply an extra vote to someone, you can 100% guarantee I'd use it defensively regardless of my alignment. I guess that's why I can see a civ GM voting to tie up a lynch to protect himself. I'm mostly just playing devil's advocate with this though, my questioning here is more with regard to Gemini Man specifically.

To me the smartest and most damning thing about Marmot is "Why bother tacking onto the Luna vote unless it's for cred"

Okay this is a solid point.

More soft defense of Marmot, but finding that reason so he can show us all why he voted (if he did/does vote for Marmot)

To me the smartest and most damning thing about Marmot is "Why bother tacking onto the Luna vote unless it's for cred"

Okay this is a solid point.

Can you pull where he said this? It's very important.

I suppose he never explicitly said as much, just said a few times that he wasn't supposed to post at all during day 4. If it were true he'd likely have been visibly punished, so...

[VOTE: Marmot] aubergine

NOW he votes for Marmot, once he's been engaged on proving his reasons.

Bullzeye voted for Sloonei during the Simon vs Marmot tie. Feels like a move a teammate might make.

Sure does. A really good teammate would've also moved their vote to Simon when he was checking the thread from his phone and saw how the lynch was going

"I didn't vote Simon, and I totally would have if I was scum, yep."

-------

Overall, we have few firm stances from Bullzeye, and a lot of soft defenses of scum. He promises a lot of 'later' stuff and rarely delivers.
He's made a post about how he's 'always careful' but I know he's capable of being fiery, as his most recent couple of posts have demonstrated. It's like most of his focus in the thread is on 4 things:
1. Explaining the way he plays
2. Promising to do stuff later because he's busy
3. Providing devil's advocate defenses for scum, or weak accusations toward them. Giving them avenues to look good or escape suspicion.
4. Looking good on the scum lynches when they become inevitable, or when he's asked about a suspicion he agrees with. Bullzeye shows his train of thought more clearly when voting for scum than anywhere else in the thread.

I'd put him at 75% scum. It's not totally damning, especially without a meta to validate with other than what he's given us. But I'll leave my vote and see what others find.

[speedchuck]

Fuck dammit shit.

Would Wilgy have forgotten about the game if he was Wily?

[speedchuck]

[mention]Turnip Head[/mention] Did I miss anything on Bullzeye?

[Turnip Head]

@Turnip Head Did I miss anything on Bullzeye?

[Jackofhearts2005]

I'm very interested to hear more about how I'm suddenly such a baddie.

I’m interested in you being interested in other things.

[sprityo]

@sprityo off the top of your head who would you be most interested to see flip?

either.......yeah, either nova or speed

[Turnip Head]

[mention]speedchuck[/mention] You were right to barf when Bullzeye feigned interest in a Nova wagon. That was the first post that made me think he and Luna were connected. Case looks thorough, I hope it gets the clicks.

[sprityo]

ill look at speedchuck's bullzeye big post during lunch tomorrow after work. I see TH accepts it, but i want to hear from my other personal town core players about it too (DH and Dyslexicon)

[Bullzeye]

Yawn. Too obvious. If I was on a team with Luna and Marmot then I'd have voted Sloonei during Luna's lynch and would've come up with an excuse to vote for Simon during the tied lynch.

[Bullzeye]

@speedchuck You were right to barf when Bullzeye feigned interest in a Nova wagon. That was the first post that made me think he and Luna were connected. Case looks thorough, I hope it gets the clicks.

Would you be interested to hear that I was feigning interest because I thought you might be trying to defend a teammate and was trying to see how far you'd go?

[Turnip Head]

Yeah but Simon was lynched over Marmot despite the tie, we don't know the behind the scenes thought process that went into that move but it would seem like they knew they had enough votes.