Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [GAME OVER]

[TonyStarkPrime]

All that said, Jay might have more time thanks to COVID. It's not like post count should just clear him. But hey, we have a few hours, if anyone wants to talk about Jay's supah-reliable post-count meta.

I don't give a toss about Jay's post count. If there's another reason to view him favorably, I'm willing to hear it.

I don't fit on either team. I was among the key players in the massacre of sig's team. I did nothing of substance to keep Mac around long-term. Sloonei capitalized on the worsening thread climate for me by trying to peg me as the Anti-Monitor (and only backing off when he feared he couldn't justify it any longer by my degree of effort). There's no reason for him to do that if I'm his teammate, and it also directly contradicts any general notion that he and I were just chumming around together all game long.

It’s a good self defense.

Yes, it is.

He’s scum, right?

[TonyStarkPrime]

All that said, Jay might have more time thanks to COVID. It's not like post count should just clear him. But hey, we have a few hours, if anyone wants to talk about Jay's supah-reliable post-count meta.

I don't give a toss about Jay's post count. If there's another reason to view him favorably, I'm willing to hear it.

I don't fit on either team. I was among the key players in the massacre of sig's team. I did nothing of substance to keep Mac around long-term. Sloonei capitalized on the worsening thread climate for me by trying to peg me as the Anti-Monitor (and only backing off when he feared he couldn't justify it any longer by my degree of effort). There's no reason for him to do that if I'm his teammate, and it also directly contradicts any general notion that he and I were just chumming around together all game long.

It’s a good self defense.

Yes, it is.

He’s scum, right?

tell me he’s scum juliets

[juliets]

All that said, Jay might have more time thanks to COVID. It's not like post count should just clear him. But hey, we have a few hours, if anyone wants to talk about Jay's supah-reliable post-count meta.

I don't give a toss about Jay's post count. If there's another reason to view him favorably, I'm willing to hear it.

I don't fit on either team. I was among the key players in the massacre of sig's team. I did nothing of substance to keep Mac around long-term. Sloonei capitalized on the worsening thread climate for me by trying to peg me as the Anti-Monitor (and only backing off when he feared he couldn't justify it any longer by my degree of effort). There's no reason for him to do that if I'm his teammate, and it also directly contradicts any general notion that he and I were just chumming around together all game long.

It’s a good self defense.

Yes, it is.

He’s scum, right?

tell me he’s scum juliets

my feet are getting cold.

[TonyStarkPrime]

No. I’m not voting for Jay. If he tricked me, he deserves to win. I’m not going to let people who have snuck through on the medium red part of everyone’s reads lists for weeks have this just so I don’t feel like I’m getting suckered.

[TonyStarkPrime]

God I’m getting suckered

[juliets]

No. I’m not voting for Jay. If he tricked me, he deserves to win. I’m not going to let people who have snuck through on the medium red part of everyone’s reads lists for weeks have this just so I don’t feel like I’m getting suckered.

I want to move off of him but I can't move to Tranq at this point.

[TonyStarkPrime]

If Jay is town or 3P, Tranq Ted Speed/Epi probably fill the scum spots. Feel the most confident on Ted but he falls into AM suspicion. Tranq is a reasonable lynch as he’s not likely to be the AM and is compatible with the Master team members. I feel that Epi is probably the most likely to fill the final spot on that team.

[TonyStarkPrime]

No. I’m not voting for Jay. If he tricked me, he deserves to win. I’m not going to let people who have snuck through on the medium red part of everyone’s reads lists for weeks have this just so I don’t feel like I’m getting suckered.

I want to move off of him but I can't move to Tranq at this point.

Alright does any other lynch interest you?
I could maybe vote for Speed.

[TonyStarkPrime]

But I don’t think Jay would vote for Speed.

[TonyStarkPrime]

I have three hours. I’m going to read JOH’s stuff on Jay last day to see if I can glean anything.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

tedxtr on sig

Spoiler: show

I kind of liked SVS's response to sig btw

something like "she thought her reasoning was clearly see through and obvious but sig not seeing it was weird but her reaction comes from an uninformed mindset instead of an informed one where she would've been pissed for sig's read on her, whereas here she's just genuinely confused as to why sig can't understand her" or something amongst those lines anyway

also disliked dys' entrance, especially the town read on Michelle

Like am I crazy here or is this a potential slip.

MacDougall
Epignosis

sig, what are you saying is a slip?

I was saying radish using term baddie could ne a slip that's he has BTSC with an older player who uses term

this is the closest thing to a town derp thought that's been posted in the thread thus far

Like am I crazy here or is this a potential slip.

MacDougall
Epignosis

sig, what are you saying is a slip?

I was saying radish using term baddie could ne a slip that's he has BTSC with an older player who uses term

Sig is town?

high five

@tedxtr in the post you just made that shows a picture of the vote (I think) it's too small for me to see what you've written in. Can you walk through it in text?

The first circle represents the dark forces with an "s" written backwards - Epi , JJJ, nutella, sprit

the second circle is the +Swag pile for town - Sloonei and TSP

the third circle is the Swag pile which is just sig

the last circle is the resistance, which is me and jack voting nutella to bring down the dark forces

I am mostly interested to see how sprit does his VCA hunting thing that I really like, but there's a lot of other things at the moment, and part of that is a reason why I asked you about it. The nanook / sig thing was going on and I didn't understand why you deflected to sprit when there was plenty of other stuff to focus on.

So, what I got from Dys was that they presented some form of reluctance to town read S~V~S even though it's most likely a town slot

Here's why : I initially town read S~V~S's engagement with sig, I didn't sense any TMI / subtle pushing back at sig for his read, moreso S~V~S was rather confused at sig and was trying to understand his push, which is really townie. However, other than that, there wasn't anything to town read other than her tone, but nothing exceptionally townie outside of that. Afterwards, I came across the Jack vote and I thought it was scummy because I was also scum reading nutella at the time and that call out on Jack made me irk and I was left with a sour taste ever since then. I had other stuff to focus on and I was really ambivalent towards S~V~S and after Dys pointed that out, it made me rethink of S~V~S's push on Jack and came to the conclusion that it was a town thought just because scum would almost never do that kind of push especially if they're defending a buddy.

It's a combo of these stuff that made me resonate with Dys' observation there

MacDougall
S~V~S

sig - S~V~S - Dys - juliets - Sloonei - TSP

maybe in that exact order

I honestly think you’re town and the push on you kind of makes me suspicious of the people on you.

G-Man has been a point of contention ever since day one, so has Radishes. Some people have expressed their reasoning for scum reading G-Man and yet nobody’s really pushing it, and the fact you’re being pushed over him, especially when people are claiming he ain’t done anything makes me sick to my stomach.

Lynch people that are scum.

Also, the case sig presented (which seems like the main reason people are voting you) is easily refutable by you asking in one of your posts “yo sig why are you voting me?” If you were Saitama you’d have known you silenced him so that question makes no sense. I am honestly surprised nobody pointed this out.

Especially going as far as to mention him, which meets a level of expectation of “why hasn’t he tried to engage with me / talk to me” which he couldn’t have done in one post before reaching a scum read on you. First ask questions, then reach a conclusion, and you having that thought is the closest thing to an easy derp clear like sig did on Day 1.

I have major deadlines to honor, and there's no way I'm going to be able to keep up with this right now. I'm going to extract myself for the time being and just pop in for a look when I can. I think things are going swimmingly, so y'all carry on. If you want my take on something, @ me and ideally link me to something. I will try to get to it. Otherwise I will observe for myself.

I compared our results and we both said sig looks like a compatible Radishes teammate. Gimme a quick take on that.

To be fair, in hindsight, I suppose he could’ve faked that derp thing if he knew Radishes was wolf and was just looking for fake associations

Also G-Man is the fool's wagon imo. It's gonna be Mac vs Sig.

Bite your tongue right now

People pushing a sig v mac narrative are deflecting from the real scum wagon that ought to be lynched is g-man

The deep wolf that’s not even a deep wolf

After endless debates I have concluded that Dys' slip analysis isn't an actual thing. Also their G-Man read makes little to no sense, although I'd like them to elaborate on how G-man treating their slot was townie. Also, G-man didn't engage with you at all dizzy, he just said "night phase went well except for dys dying" and that's it. Dyslexicon

People that are claiming sig has to be scum and aren't questioning why he couldn't have just TMI as a town role (which is the only thing dys' case can be even pointed to, but I don't think that's even a viable probability) is weird. Juliets' vote stuck out like a sore thumb. She went hard on him for no reason, just based off this nonsensical case, and her calling sig desperate so early feels really fake. Moreso, claiming she read his ISO but holding him accountable ONLY for this slip thing is wolfy.

Sig's basically saying that a protective role WOULDN'T have targeted mac and thus, he would have other tools at his disposal to survive the night. scummy ones.

Also also, the "what is ted doing on g-man" when I haven't posted in like 24 hours or something is really bad. Especially when I don't remember juliets even saying anything about G-man, so why even say that?

I can follow sig's train of thought actually.

I'll probably look at TH's push on me at some point but it isn't on my priority list.

juliets, why does my vote stand out to you from the other 5 people off the sig v mac thunderdome? especially when you have no read on g-man.

[VOTE: Mac ] aubergine

Night

If someone wants to CFD juliets i don’t mind tbh but the general feeling i get is that the game won’t continue in normal parametres unless sig and mac get lynched

So i will probably take my time to finish my projects and will be checking in more rarely until we’re over with this stalemate and yeah, feel free to mention me in posts cuz i’m probably only checking those for the next few days

Why would sig say anything if he's bad. Makes more sense that he'd share his theory if he was alone civ

That’s actually something I was thinking about. I was thinking that it was enough for him to call mac out on silencing him because x reasons and just take credit by killing him in the night as a wolf, he wouldn’t really need to out himself like that

But then I thought it’s also a bad argument because actually pushing it gives you more credit anyway, so I didn’t want to read into that. Him having the notion of Mac wolf as a wolf!sig himself, he’d be easily susceptible to slipping in order to lynch mac, thinking it will absolve him of how he scum read him.

I still think tons of people on sig don’t have their place there though. Mainly Juliets who’s failed to give some form of rebuttal for why she was pushing him based on that case.

She asked me something silly like “are you suggesting sig had some TMI as a town role” or something which were exactly my words in the post. Her pushing sig relentlessly over that slip thing seems weird.

She kind of angled it towards “I’ve also read your ISO and I don’t like it” but *i don’t remember* any form of poking at him or pushing.

There’s just something illogical that doesn’t sit right with me. If there’s the slightest chance sig is a town, why are you voting for him instead of basically outed wolf Mac no matter sig’s alignment? If it’s so clear to you that he TMI’d Mac, why wouldn’t you ask yourself “is this a wolf tming or a town tming” and vote for him instead of Mac?

Why are we still talking about this instead of sig’s handling of radishes/sabie?

my methods of hunting put me two scum on a plate

and i think i have a really good point on juliets so i want people to hop in.

it seems like a good point to focus on, especially when I don't see the premise of the push coming from juliets? it's such tunnel visioned on the idea sig has to be scum tming and not town tming, and the obvious choice, from her PoV of "sig slipped and dys' case is goat" should be to lynch mac over sig.

I don't find this easy to follow. ted's early read on sig was positive. There seemed to be slight indicators of movement at a couple junctures, but they were subtle and didn't amount to any personal action. I spoke earlier in the game about how I didn't like ted's way of transforming juliets' suspicions of sig into suspicions of her. It's an awkward thing if he's sig's teammate, as this doesn't protect sig as much as it shades juliets. I don't know that he sets himself up to earn credit that way either. I don't feel a great degree of confidence in these speculations.

ted's reasonably compatible with sig.

[juliets]

No. I’m not voting for Jay. If he tricked me, he deserves to win. I’m not going to let people who have snuck through on the medium red part of everyone’s reads lists for weeks have this just so I don’t feel like I’m getting suckered.

I want to move off of him but I can't move to Tranq at this point.

Alright does any other lynch interest you?
I could maybe vote for Speed.

ted is my highest interest lynch. Tell me again why we don't want to lynch the anti-monitor tonight? I'm confused about that part.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I would lynch Epignosis.

[juliets]

[mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention] TSP went to read Jack. Would you answer my question re: why do we not want to Lynch the anti-monitor tonight?

linki lol, we're all over the place on who we would Lynch.

[juliets]

I'll be back by 9:00 pm.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Reread day 7. Every single Jack post was about Jay. quite a few about how Sloonei was probably his teammate.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

JaggedJimmyJay TSP went to read Jack. Would you answer my question re: why do we not want to Lynch the anti-monitor tonight?

linki lol, we're all over the place on who we would Lynch.

I'm not sure I agree with that. Let's review the numbers. I'm not comfortable calling Dizzy an independent or mafioso, and that leaves:

4 vs. 2 vs. 1 vs. 1

Lynch the Anti-Monitor today, and that goes to 4:2:1. The following night kill if successful brings on either 3:2:1 or 4:2. Those aren't unwinnable postures. The former comes with some danger pending the independent win condition. I have no idea about that. The latter is a standard MyLo.

Lynching a Master teamer alleviates the more dangerous side. We have to have the luxury of confidence to consider these things.

[TonyStarkPrime]

No. I’m not voting for Jay. If he tricked me, he deserves to win. I’m not going to let people who have snuck through on the medium red part of everyone’s reads lists for weeks have this just so I don’t feel like I’m getting suckered.

I want to move off of him but I can't move to Tranq at this point.

Alright does any other lynch interest you?
I could maybe vote for Speed.

ted is my highest interest lynch. Tell me again why we don't want to lynch the anti-monitor tonight? I'm confused about that part.

I mean it’s probably fine. Ideally we’d do it tomorrow after eliminating the master team. There’s more potential room for error with two teams remaining.

[TonyStarkPrime]

I’m also going to actually be slightly disappointed if someone doesn’t activate the take five bomb this game. Maybe a dead person had it.

It was super my least favorite part of Girl Genius.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

TonyStarkPrime on sig

Spoiler: show

Like am I crazy here or is this a potential slip.

MacDougall
Epignosis

sig, what are you saying is a slip?

I was saying radish using term baddie could ne a slip that's he has BTSC with an older player who uses term

Sig is town?

Why

Bad arguments are town

speed bad

Can Papa Jay get the juice? Why sig town? Why speed bad?

sig town because of the towny “info passed in scumchat” read — especially because it’s almost crazy enough to be right.

Catching up: throwing in early reads to have them down

Town: SVS, Sig, Michelle, I think Epi
Wont lynch: Jack, Ted, the other half of Epi

Okay gang, so what if we take a step back?

We have two major wagons going, with most of the players on them which isn't really something I personally like this early in the game.

Who outside of Jack, Nutella, and Radish looks the worst/could be a baddie?

I'm obviously gonna say we should go with Nanook.

But, I'm open to other ideas.

I don’t think any of those are good lynches probably reverse alpha best to worst

Dizzy is town, Colin is ehh.

I knew you would come to love me. Are you town though? Cause I want like a read list or something from you. Or at least your top suspects or something. Basically just want to know more where you're at and not so in the background.

Town:

Dizzy
Epi?
G-Man
Jack?
SVS
sig
Ted
Me

Ehh:
Colin
Dom
Drago
Mac
Radish
Michelle
A book
Sloonei
Sprit
Tranq

Baddish:
Jay
Juliets
Sabie
Speed
Turnip

A question: if we all know what a derp looks like, and we all could reasonably emulate it, why don’t you see it more often? I can’t remember the last time scum town cleated themself with something like that.
The only possible example in this game is Sig going after Radish for saying baddie. Sig might have been right. Ironically, because he might have been right, I need to re-examine Sig.

I also heartily disagree with whoever has floated TH as a radishmate. I think they look quite clear.

Agreed, more likely if TH is mafia he's on other team.....with Mac

This is where it became funny.

Tony, I have no idea what you're talking about tbh. That is super confusing to me

Lemme have my science project

Short: I am a contrarian and don’t think we should lynch Mac or G-Man/Sig and am looking for a good other option.

Okay between the MTG tournament I have to prep for (Sloonei don’t kill me) and the primaries and the fact that Mac maybe surrendering means half of this will be moot, I’ll focus this analysis on a few people: Michelle, Turnip Head, and SVS. Jack is an interesting fourth option here -- he has good Master team scum odds if Mac is town but not otherwise.


SVS: First off, the town read day 1 came from nice reactions to Nanook in the whole Sig spat and being the token “person who hasn’t been around who votes Jack when he claims unlynchable” -- a sort of reverse scum tell. I could see it being orchestrated, but that still means that SVS/ Jack isn’t likely (the part where SVS quotes back the rules is particularly a nice touch). Also voted Radishes over Nutella without being constrained much. So not there. Strongly defended Mac on Day 2 and voted Radishes early and stuck.

Spoiler: show

linki @Dyslexicon I saw that post earlier. I am missing the nuance of that post. I don't think a person has to be a specific role on a team for a different teammate to act on their behalf. If this is not the point, can you spell it out for me?

That is not the point. I'll explain:
Ted says the Mac spewed himself as not a member of the silencing-team, ergo ONE of the mafia teams.
He then concludes this spews Mac as not scum.
But that is not a conclusion you can draw. Even if Ted is right, that just means Mac is not on THAT mafia team. There's still another team. I wonder if this is a slip of mind that Ted is on the other team himself.

Does this make sense?

Ted is basically saying: "[This] proves that Mac is not on Team A which means he's not scum."
And I say:

I'm a bit wary of these slips, cause sometimes it's just bad wording. But still, it may be something.

Can someone (Ted) explain this to me? What I’m getting is also that SVS asks for some explanation here -- that wouldn’t be necessary if Mac were teamed with SVS and were bad. SVS would probably instantly grasp this and take the clear. Alternatively, just a misreading.

Today there has been very little about Mac, but a bit more on G Man. SVS chooses to clear G Man, despite the fact that they had previously been a major proponent for a G Man lynch, based on a quote ATE post. It’s established that G Man as scum is probably on team B and then it wouldn’t make sense for team A SVS to push there.

Conclusion:
Team A: Low
Team B w/ Mac: Medium
Team B w/o Mac: No higher than average
Further Conclusion:
I should move my vote.

Curious about when TSP voted for me? I was under the impression he wanted to lynch ... not me? And I missed where he explained placing a vote there.

A few hours before this post — when Sig overtook you. I want to lynch not you. But also not Sig.

Why is everybody up sig's ass? Holy shit.

!

Dyslexicon

Give me some reads that aren’t Sig?

Curious about when TSP voted for me? I was under the impression he wanted to lynch ... not me? And I missed where he explained placing a vote there.

A few hours before this post — when Sig overtook you. I want to lynch not you. But also not Sig.

So you put your vote on me over 24 hours before EOD to stop sig from steamrolling to the lead but you don't want to lynch me though?

Seems a little bit strange to me.

It’s about momentum — and making a statement.

Sig lynch bad because Sig almost always on Team B AND I don’t even believe that.
Mac lynch bad because if Mac is scum then Mac is scum then what.
Both are bad lynches, but furthermore:

If Sig is bad, Mac is probably always bad. So lynch Mac first.

The way I am reading it is that TSP is attempting to use some sort of probability to justify his vote as opposed to actually taking personal accountability for a read, which is a scum mentality generally.

I’ll take personal accountability into account: I think Sig is town. I’m indifferent on you. I’m voting for you.

Is it not the case that the entire case against Sig hinges on him swinging at Mac night one and then TMIing?

Is it not the case that the entire case against Sig hinges on him swinging at Mac night one and then TMIing?

That's not all of it. His interactive history with Radish and Sabie is nasty.

Meh. I have read the evidence and I refuse to admit that I might be wrong.

This is a really strange take for anything other than a mafioso exactly teammates with Radishes and Sabie.

And Sig too? Congrats you caught us?

Is it not the case that the entire case against Sig hinges on him swinging at Mac night one and then TMIing?

That's not all of it. His interactive history with Radish and Sabie is nasty.

I didn’t say the words that I meant. If Sig is scum, it is generally agreed that their team targeted Mac night one and he didn’t die, prompting Sig’s attack on Mac which carries in a vacuum?

This is a fun take. In a world where Mac isn't on the Master team I could entertain a world where Ted is. Also yeah I feel like we haven't heard from him in a while.

I encourage everybody to read in detail those Ted quotes that Mac posted, and tell me if that's not a scum looking for a read on Mac while pushing a g-man scapegoat agenda

Okay I’m getting lost in all of these nets but this definitely doesn’t scan. If Ted is scum, he knows that Mac is not. He doesn’t need to probe Mac to try to find that.

Okay, any likelihood he's on the radish team then, in which case Mac could still be on the master team?

(Actually asking this, I don't remember anything specific about ted's equity or lack thereof with radish/sabie)

JJJ said no and Sloonei said inconclusive. I tend to lean inconclusive but I haven’t ISOed TexMex.

I feel like you know things. Like from a scum perspective.

Well if Mac is right then I’d know the answer is no because I’m scum with Sig and Radishes and Sabie

Like, I think if sig is scum then that team definitely targeted mac n1, but there is some minuscule chance that there was another reason mac survived which provoked sig's theory. But very low.

So then why in the name of all holy things would we ever lynch Sig over Mac?

Look, there’s a lot going on here, but I think at least this much is clear.

I feel good about most of the people on the sig wagon as well. Think I can [VOTE: sig] aubergine for now.

no bad

Radish/sabie team targeting Mac and Mac not dying doesn’t automatically make Mac scum (actually it makes him 50/50, roughly)

So it’s not quite as clear cut as “kill Mac and we know sig’s alignment.”

Right, Tony, it's more the opposite, idk how you interpreted my post to the conclusion that we should lynch mac first -- I'm saying sig is more surely scum than mac.

If Sig is scum, it is likely that Mac is scum. Not guaranteed — likely.

If Mac is scum and flips immunity role, it is guaranteed that Sig is scum there is almost no way around it.
Unless he is the Jack of all trades, n1 tracked Sabie targeting Mac, fail, night 2 killed Sabie. Oh. That accounts for all the facts. Curses. Foiled again.

I agree that looking at these two statements, it seems more likely that Sig is scum. But Sig being town has no bearing on Mac being scum or not, and Mac being town is a positive indicator for Sig.

No cause Sig made a Post Day 2 about how Mac was scum

There's also this to keep in mind:

The Anti-Monitor - You will survive the first two nightkill attempts, and you will start each Day with -2 votes. If you perform your team’s kill, it cannot be protected against by regular means. Each night, you will search for Harbinger, and if you find her, she will kill the Monitor.

This role is a good reason to lynch Sig — finding the Harbinger is a good way to make town sad.

Ted, Jack, and Colin are the names to look into if we’re right about sig. Dom is a fringe candidate too, and I saw someone float Tranq as well. I have no reason to object to that.

This for if Sig is scum?

8-10 is where you want it, cause then if Sig is the AM then the tie breaker gets to decide

Tony started with a positive read on sig and for a while was among his chief defenders. In a world where sig had partial or total control over dream level assignments, it then makes a lot of sense that Tony would end up on the smallest level with him. He has a friend in tight quarters with Tranq as lurker bait -- this would be ruined by S~V~S outing him. Tony's own read on sig became more mechanical by Day 3, when his discussion was more focused on the wisdom of lynching Mac before sig. I don't think he looks disingenuous in these posts. There's a little space for compatibility if I don't trust in unknown mechanics.

Minor compatibility

[Epignosis]

Thanks JaggedJimmyJay, on the speedchuck read are you suggesting they are distancing from each other? They sure aren't supportive of each other. When I read through speed's changes from Mac-sig-Mac-sig I didn't hate it. I thought it looked ok. (I thought I would hate it.) So ok, I'll think about your read here, he could be fooling me I guess.

Gun to my head, I don't think speedchuck is mafia at all. The appeal to emotion incident still carries weight for me. Regarding compatibility though, my concerns stem from an inbalance in their interaction -- sig didn't acknowledge speedchuck that much considering the opportunities speed gave him for that. I was bothered more than you were by the Day 3 vote swaparoos.

If I appealed to emotion in the same way, how would you treat it? Just wondering moving forward.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Thanks JaggedJimmyJay, on the speedchuck read are you suggesting they are distancing from each other? They sure aren't supportive of each other. When I read through speed's changes from Mac-sig-Mac-sig I didn't hate it. I thought it looked ok. (I thought I would hate it.) So ok, I'll think about your read here, he could be fooling me I guess.

Gun to my head, I don't think speedchuck is mafia at all. The appeal to emotion incident still carries weight for me. Regarding compatibility though, my concerns stem from an inbalance in their interaction -- sig didn't acknowledge speedchuck that much considering the opportunities speed gave him for that. I was bothered more than you were by the Day 3 vote swaparoos.

If I appealed to emotion in the same way, how would you treat it? Just wondering moving forward.

I'd vote for you instantly.

[Epignosis]

If Jay is town or 3P, Tranq Ted Speed/Epi probably fill the scum spots. Feel the most confident on Ted but he falls into AM suspicion. Tranq is a reasonable lynch as he’s not likely to be the AM and is compatible with the Master team members. I feel that Epi is probably the most likely to fill the final spot on that team.

I feel that you are silly. I'm not mafia. Stop entertaining it.

[Epignosis]

I would lynch Epignosis.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Tranq on sig

Spoiler: show

I agree with S~V~S on G-Man.
I agree with Dom on Turnip Head.
I agree with sig on MacDougall.
I agree with Epignosis on Jackofhearts2005.

That's it. Sure. Consider the same dream level mechanics as with Tony. If sig had any control, they're probably not teammates. If he didn't, they could be.

Minor compatibility

[Epignosis]

Thanks JaggedJimmyJay, on the speedchuck read are you suggesting they are distancing from each other? They sure aren't supportive of each other. When I read through speed's changes from Mac-sig-Mac-sig I didn't hate it. I thought it looked ok. (I thought I would hate it.) So ok, I'll think about your read here, he could be fooling me I guess.

Gun to my head, I don't think speedchuck is mafia at all. The appeal to emotion incident still carries weight for me. Regarding compatibility though, my concerns stem from an inbalance in their interaction -- sig didn't acknowledge speedchuck that much considering the opportunities speed gave him for that. I was bothered more than you were by the Day 3 vote swaparoos.

If I appealed to emotion in the same way, how would you treat it? Just wondering moving forward.

I'd vote for you instantly.

You're a charlatan.

Sloonei on Epignosis

Spoiler: show

Like am I crazy here or is this a potential slip.

MacDougall
Epignosis

I’d call it unlikely, but I don’t object to tugging at this thread. Why are you tagging epi and mac specifically?

I don’t remember much of anything that Epi has said in this game. That is probably more my fault than his.

I don’t remember much of anything that Epi has said in this game. That is probably more my fault than his.

who the hell are you?

Steaming the tamales, which I've never made before and am unlikely to make again. What a pain in the ass. Who came up with the idea of putting dough in corn husks?

I'm here for half an hour.

move your vote

Why?

Because Jay's town and we're not about to lynch him in the last half hour of the day with several viable options on the board.

G-Man's vote does not inspire confidence either.

None of the single voters do. Epi's is one of the least worrying, honestly. He's here and apparently trying to do something provocative with it.

Why?

Because Jay's town and we're not about to lynch him in the last half hour of the day with several viable options on the board.

Yesterday ruined me for this day phase. I can't keep up and shit keeps piling up.

Why is your preference Radishes over Mac?

It's not really. I've been on Radishes for a while because I like to keep the poll close during the day. I'm okay with either of them. I guess I do feel a little bit more strongly about Radishes, but that's probably just because I've been on him from the beginning and have not shaken that suspicion. It's a more entrenched case for me. With Mac I just feel icky about one post he made. Other people have had a lot more to say about him.
I'm also open to G-man.

Turnip Head has four votes. Your take on him?

Town

I left Dom and Epi off of the joint list. Both of them were listed as "incidentally present" on my list, which wasn't really a judgment of alignment either way. Radish named them as names, but didn't have a ton to say about either of them. Jay had Epi in his top tier of green reads, and Dom in the orange tier.

So put Epi in the "mixed reviews" category and Dom in "neutral/negative".

What I don't join is your sig vote. It makes no fucking sense to me.

Why?

To be clear, I don't have a sound argument to lynch sig right now. My gut says he's town. But when I look at the results of the interactive analyses (which as we know is indisputable), sig's name stands out. I want to review that bone to see how much meat it has on it.

I left Dom and Epi off of the joint list. Both of them were listed as "incidentally present" on my list, which wasn't really a judgment of alignment either way. Radish named them as names, but didn't have a ton to say about either of them. Jay had Epi in his top tier of green reads, and Dom in the orange tier.

So put Epi in the "mixed reviews" category and Dom in "neutral/negative".

How am I a mixed review?

Jay says you're positive. I shrugged.

Epignosis if there is one particular moment in the jack/sabie interactions that you could highlight for your suspicion of him, what would it be?

What are you asking me, nutella? I'm quite behind and don't know the context.

If sig is bad, there’s a 50% chance he starts the day with -2 votes. A tie doesn’t do much and may just be ensuring a mac lynch.

And then MacDougall gets lynched instead, which is apparently the itinerary for Day 4 as I understand it. What's it matter?

The ghost of Dyslexicon laid out a plan for isolating the last remaining member of sig’s supposed team. Also sig is more bad than Mac.

We can now do two sets of interactive isos. This may literally kill me.

I'm not doing a goddamn thing.

i'm not doing anything tonight either. i'm a sedated sloon.

I'll be with you clowns later (hopefully). I'm in the middle of Sloonei's latest novel.

I tried to really work on my character development in this one

"Sig calls on Mac (and Epi) to comment on baddie-gate. Mac and sig are not partners and if I'm wrong about that I will eat every shoe I own."

Why is this worth saying now?

I compiled that post during the night, before the threads were split up and we knew sig’s role.

@Sloonei what is your read on me?

town

I feel like we've been less connected in this game than in games past. I grant that we've both had less time to be here for whatever reasons.

What do you think of Epignosis?

I do not have a firm read on him. I haven't given him much attention.

Someone ask me something mafia related. Fuck NBA. Fuck hysteria.

JaggedJimmyJay and Turnip Head: what are their alignments?

Anti

Do you mean they are aligned opposite one another, or they are both anti-town? Or something else entirely?

Won't vote for:

Dom, Epi, G-Man, Jack, Sloonei

Could be convinced to vote mostly anyone else

Talk to me about me, epi, and G-man.

I’m the anti-epi. Corona hysteria got me in a weird mood today and I wasn’t feeling this mafia thing. I’ll be back at it tomorrow.

Dom, Tony, and Epi are the names I'm least confident in after you (if we're accepting TH's claim about targeting Michelle). She only mentioned those three in a list of town reads when I specifically asked her for them.

I do not have a read on Epi outside of the interactive analysis that I've done. That's unusual.

I do not have a read on Epi outside of the interactive analysis that I've done. That's unusual.

i wonder if it's worrisome. Unusual is bad or plain neutral?

Unusual is unusual. I have no reason to feel good about it, but I don't have a specific reason to feel bad about Epi. Which is the point.

When I have caught Epi in the past, it has been because he looks to have a deliberate plan in the thread. On those occasions, he has come into the game and made posts that all seem to be angling for something in particular. I have not observed that happening in this game, but I've also never given less energy to reading Epignosis in a game before. I'll ISO him at some point. I too need to put some energy in other places right now. I'll have at least half an eye on this thing until the deadline. If anyone feels like kicking ted's tires that'd be neat, but we appear to be plunging into a colin lynch. I'm not as inspired to stop it as I was several days ago.

Observers: Commence to comment.

I'm keen to lynch Colin. On that front, sure. I agree with your conclusion. One question:

You noted Colin agreeing with Dyslexicon about a point against Tony. You said you sought follow-up. Later you observed Colin's Day 2 vote for Tony and said you didn't know why he placed it. And lastly you mentioned that the "Tony stuff you were looking for" was vague.

Please expand on all of that. It looks disjointed to me, and at times I struggled to follow what you were saying in general within that case.

Colin didn't bother to interact with his suspects. That's a red flag. A vote doesn't mean anything to me, especially with more than one mafia. I was looking for Colin to parse his suspicion of Tony.

This is where I am. I'll read the rest after this in about an hour. And get roaring drunk. Again.

I feel like I just spoke this post into existence.
Talk to me about ted and speedchuck.

I've read everything but Sloonei's latest novel. I am current other than that.

I really don’t expect everyone to read all that nonsense. The rainbow list at the end tells you what’s essential.

Then why do you publish it?

For reference and my own sake.

Jack, Dom, and juliets are not on Mac’s team. Everyone else is on the table as far as I’m concerned.

The anti-monitor is between Jay, Tony, Epi, or Dom for me. Dom seems the least likely of the bunch. I have no explicit reason to eliminate G-man, but I am not feeling that it’s him.

so I read the sloonei case and I still can't understand why he's making the leap that I'm scum and not just town, the evidence is circumstantial at best. Who's scum other than me sloonei?

Observe the rainbow. Two of the bottom names were wrong, so it is likely flawed somewhere. But you and speedchuck remain among the oranges. Epi and Tranq were difficult to place. I would not be totally shocked if one of the light greens was also bad. I think Tony would be my first choice among them, but that's based largely on my general skepticism toward him as a player.

So only you can be zen?

Seriously though, your posts are sleepy. The game is not in a good place. That's a contrast.

That’s a me thing, not a game thing. I’m still here and still trying to solve things, but my mafia energy isn’t at its peak.

I think the votes for you are wrong if the theory is that you are on Mac’s team. I think they have merit if the theory is that you’re the anti-monitor, but I don’t think that conversation is closed. Epi and Tony can be in the conversation too. Juliets and Jack are my tinfoils.

I think ted is a good bet to be on Mac’s team. Interactions, POE, and his behavior today all point to it.

This is only even a contest because Jay has teammates.

If GMan has teammates, they’re bussing. Yet there are five votes for town Jay?

No way that’s happening. Just look at the vote count and tell me Jay can even be town here.

All it takes is one or two vocal civilians promoting a case and the wolves can start circling.

Who are the wolves on Jay’s wagon?

From most to least suspicious:
Speedchuck
Epi
Tranq
Tony
You

There wasn’t even a case on GMan.

Read the damn thread with the rest of us please.

Do you suspect Jack?

No. Hence frustration.

Huge Radish review -- Epi is in the middling tier

Huge Mac reviewp -- Epi is in the middling tier

Huge sabie review -- Epi is in a barely-south-of-middling tier

~~~

This might look like a lot of content, but by Sloonei's standards it's actually not much. The trend I see emerging here is Sloonei having no clue what to do with Epignosis. When he did his large analyses, he stuck Epi at the center every time. When he stated reads on Epignosis, they hardly qualified as reads. These may sound like bad points, but my view is positive for Epignosis. I don't see any kind of plan or agenda in the way they communicated with each other in these posts. I think Sloonei literally forgot about Epignosis at various points. Indeed, when my suspicion of Epignosis ramped up in recent phases, Sloonei gave some half-hearted support to the idea. This is pointless if Epignosis is his teammate and people are treating him like a confirmed civilian. I think Sloonei rides that out. I don't think Sloonei knew what he was doing in these exchanges.

Doubt they're teammates.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I would lynch Epignosis.

You look like shit with both Sloonei and sig.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Check the other direction, boss

[Epignosis]

I have three hours. I’m going to read JOH’s stuff on Jay last day to see if I can glean anything.

You have had many hours. Why are you stirring shit up toward the end of the Day phase?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Meaningless appeals to consistency and "you trusted me before in that other post!" are bad.

[Epignosis]

I would lynch Epignosis.

You look like shit with both Sloonei and sig.

No I don't. I look like God's fingers.

[Epignosis]

I did defend sig though. Can't deny that.

[Epignosis]

I buried Radishes and I buried MacDougall. Deal with it Jimmayy.

[Epignosis]

Who be die?

Poll runs till Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:34 pmPlease note that if you vote, your vote will be visible.
You may select 1 option

Epignosis
0
No votes


Voters: None

JaggedJimmyJay
6
35%


Voters: Tranq, juliets, Michelle, Epignosis, speedchuck, tedxtr

juliets
0
No votes


Voters: None

Michelle
0
No votes


Voters: None

speedchuck
0
No votes


Voters: None

tedxtr
0
No votes


Voters: None

TonyStarkPrime
0
No votes


Voters: None

Tranq
2
12%


Voters: JaggedJimmyJay, TonyStarkPrime

Everyone! (host/dead/nonplayer)
9
53%


Voters: Turnip Head, sig, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, MacDougall, nutella, sprityo, Sloonei, Jackofhearts2005, Long Con


Total votes: 17

[Epignosis]

In case that matters.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I buried Radishes and I buried MacDougall. Deal with it Jimmayy.

You didn't bury MacDougall. Horseshit. You were the worst-looking Player-on-Mac review I did.

Who didn't bury Radishes?

[Epignosis]

I buried Radishes and I buried MacDougall. Deal with it Jimmayy.

You didn't bury MacDougall. Horseshit. You were the worst-looking Player-on-Mac review I did.

Who didn't bury Radishes?

I tied Mac up. No, I didn't use the vote tag, which is why your lazy ass "I'm going to ISO everyone" failed to see it. I tied Mac up and could've easily gone the other way if I meant to. You are so busy you're lazy.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I buried Radishes and I buried MacDougall. Deal with it Jimmayy.

You didn't bury MacDougall. Horseshit. You were the worst-looking Player-on-Mac review I did.

Who didn't bury Radishes?

I tied Mac up. No, I didn't use the vote tag, which is why your lazy ass "I'm going to ISO everyone" failed to see it. I tied Mac up and could've easily gone the other way if I meant to. You are so busy you're lazy.

I don't give a shit about your vote. We've talking about votes all game long. I know you voted for Mac. That means fuck all right now. Your words were shit. You didn't even read what I just shared with you.

[Epignosis]

I buried Radishes and I buried MacDougall. Deal with it Jimmayy.

You didn't bury MacDougall. Horseshit. You were the worst-looking Player-on-Mac review I did.

Who didn't bury Radishes?

I tied Mac up. No, I didn't use the vote tag, which is why your lazy ass "I'm going to ISO everyone" failed to see it. I tied Mac up and could've easily gone the other way if I meant to. You are so busy you're lazy.

I don't give a shit about your vote. We've talking about votes all game long. I know you voted for Mac. That means fuck all right now. Your words were shit. You didn't even read what I just shared with you.

[Michelle]

Reading through Jay's post about Ted I had a town Ted vibe from the quoted posts.
Town Ted is often wrong in a sure way and get mislynched players with his conviction.
Idk how are looking his latest scum games because I only saw him villager since his mafia hiatus from autumn. But he was more blendy as scum.
If I am allowed to post a link to an outside forum I will post a recent town Ted game.

@Juliets you said Jack's stuborness about Jay may come from a mechanical evidence. Also Jack TR Tranq. Would it be possible for Jack to have any alignament checks? Is normal for town Jack to be wrong, but would he spend his all day on Jay just because his own read? Wouldn't be healthier for town to have a larger view over the game? Jack's behaviour doesn't fit in a normal towny play.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Folks want to clear this guy all game long based on BTSC when a janitor exists, and we deserve what we get.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If I am allowed to post a link to an outside forum I will post a recent town Ted game.

This has never been an issue before. [mention]Long Con[/mention]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I gotta get back to my coursework. I'll be around in a bit

[Epignosis]

Folks want to clear this guy all game long based on BTSC when a janitor exists, and we deserve what we get.

Who is "this guy?"

[Michelle]

Folks want to clear this guy all game long based on BTSC when a janitor exists, and we deserve what we get.

The janitor killed only Dizzy. He can be town or 3rd. I "suspect" him as villager.

How do you explain the double deaths from some nights?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Folks want to clear this guy all game long based on BTSC when a janitor exists, and we deserve what we get.

Who is "this guy?"

Epignosis

[Epignosis]

Folks want to clear this guy all game long based on BTSC when a janitor exists, and we deserve what we get.

Who is "this guy?"

Epignosis

Okay then.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Folks want to clear this guy all game long based on BTSC when a janitor exists, and we deserve what we get.

The janitor killed only Dizzy. He can be town or 3rd. I "suspect" him as villager.

How do you explain the double deaths from some nights?

That's what I mean. If Dizzy was town, the Master team knew his role and nobody else did. So they could comfortably claim it in BTSC with Dom.

The only double death I can speak to is the one Turnip Head described -- trying to kill you and hitting sabie instead.

[Epignosis]

If.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If.

Was Dizzy not?