Philosophers' Mafia [ENDGAME]

[nutella]

has dizzy still not done anything? that's not a null read at this point. that's a straight up scumread. unless he really has had no time or anything, but I really think that if he rolled town he'd be excited enough for game start that he would have at least tried to post a few times. a silent dizzy is not a town dizzy.

[VOTE: dyslexicon] aubergine



unrelated but trying to save posts: liked radish's long reads post but it's absolutely not out of his wolfrange. I value his reads on benson and kza and perhaps even more so his read on nanook based on wolfing with him, but those are all definitely "reads" he can state while not being town. and of course I value Benson's concern there as well.

[WerewolfHunter]

@WerewolfHunter any other reads? and in your conclusion, am i town or mafia after all?

Thanks for asking. I'm still trying to get a feel for this game. Have no great reads yet. I'm leaning slightly more likely evil but it did make me reevaluate

[tutuu]

Fwiw lion king just ended. He was mafia there in lylo so maybe that explains his absence

[nutella]

Maybe I need to go further into what the others are thinking but my position on nutella is this:
- Noticeable lack of original thoughts/ideas that are from a villagery mindset. I've seen basically one so far. I expect a lot more.
- Following/sheeping the reads of others. I suppose this isn't *that* bad, because a wolf nutella probably knows to be careful here anyways.
- She's not really pushing in any direction either other than the ones that have already been established. But I realize I'm getting a little redundant.

Eh, it's not the worst. But I'll wait until it gets better before I take her out of lynch contention. If she's town, she'll likely get there.

What do you think of the wagon dynamic between Amy v Nute. That's what I wanted to explore today. I like the way those have developed, as in there's information there. I don't know what info, but info nonetheless.

This is all basically saying the same thing – she’s following, not leading. In my limited experience that’s not a scumtell for her (or, rather, I see her do that when she’s town). She’s a little less forceful than usual, e.g. I don’t recall a posts where she just says like ‘this is a wolf’ which I often see from her.

As I said in my readslist I’m waiting for the day I get fooled by her (she owes me one anyway, since I did that to her in, uh, I think it was Assassin’s Creed). But atm when I read her posts I nod in agreement and in general I think I’m pretty good at not being full-on pocketed by wolves, or at least I like to think so.

Re: Amy vs Nutella, I’m not sold on either one myself. Or do you mean specifically the wagonomics of it? Two of my stronger townreads are voting for Amy, but so is my top scumread. His was a very bussy vote though so that doesn’t sway me either way. The people on the Nutella wagon are varying degrees of ??? for me. All hesitant, uncertain townleans. In my experience that grouping contains wolves but I never find them on D1. Basically right now the wagon formation enforces my read that Nutella is probably town being nudged by at least one opportunistic wolf, but maybe Amy is someone I need to look at harder.

it was covid where you hard pocketed me and i swear to the god of vegetables if you're doing it again...

thanks for defending me though :P

So did a partial re-read of day 1.

Think I'm not so sus of tutuu any more. Shes probably town. Which also means Alison is more town.

I also now read Scirrus as towny.

Also can people stop reading me as town so much. I don't want to die in the night. Thank you.

Lol. I know this POV could be faked but it's how I feel as well so I want to call it towny.

---

I'm overly focusing on radish because I know him the most, but he still truly doesn't sit well with me. Like I wouldn't expect a full reads list out of him this early before he's really done significant investigative work; and he evidently hasn't done that. The list just looks like work for the sake of work. Sorry, MR, if you're town and I'm disrespecting you right now.
My new spicy take is that if we're just totally on point with nutella, then maybe he's wolfing with her. Or maybe it's a TMI read so he can salvage some town equity is she's miselimed.


Where did everyone go?

i am afraid he could be TMIing/whiteknighting me yeah

and your take on the reads list being overly busy for this early is a good one. my very vague sense of radish's meta is that he can be a bit more go with the flow as town and not do a ton of work early on and it's why he's been d1ed a few times recently, while as scum he can go pretty deep by looking villagery through some effort and developed reads. this isn't black and white though, certainly in his champs game he did a lot of high effort solving, but then again of course that's champs. but by my rough paradigm of "I should read radish the opposite of how I think I should read him because I've literally always read him wrong" he feels like a potential wolf here.

[nutella]

Fwiw lion king just ended. He was mafia there in lylo so maybe that explains his absence

dizzy? alright that helps I guess. that's a valid reason to have low energy in another game starting. still need some kind of presence from him

[Timsup2nothin]

[mention]iaafr[/mention]
[mention]Amy[/mention]
[mention]tutuu[/mention]

My corner of the SS Nutella has developed a large hole and we are taking on water. It may be time to look for a different boat. Either that or some arguments as to why we should stay on board here because as I said my own argument for having gotten on in the first place has come unglued.

[nutella]

Actually, I realize nutella has (and just did) follow up her Amy reads, so you can disregard that point in my previous post. I guess if anything, nute, I want to know what was your *initial* read on Amy when you voted? What specifically about her subsequent posts made you think town?

I never voted lol why do people keep saying that my vote for dizzy just now was my first vote!

but yes when I initially agreed with rabbit's case on amy, I thought that it made sense amy looked most generally wolfy out of the people who had participated much at that point. as she's posted more and especially with her longer posts about the tim stuff and about iaafr I think she's much more in her town meta. and I particularly mindmelded with her iaafr read.



other stuff from the remainder of page 10
-wwh seems pretty towny now, sort of a vague tone thing but the way she's trying to put in some independent work and the way she expressed her take on each tutuu quote, generally feels like her perspective is genuine.
-radish's case on scirrus made me feel worse about radish and better about scirrus.

[nutella]

@iaafr
@Amy
@tutuu

My corner of the SS Nutella has developed a large hole and we are taking on water. It may be time to look for a different boat. Either that or some arguments as to why we should stay on board here because as I said my own argument for having gotten on in the first place has come unglued.

you don't need their approval to move your vote off me

[WerewolfHunter]

Actually, I realize nutella has (and just did) follow up her Amy reads, so you can disregard that point in my previous post. I guess if anything, nute, I want to know what was your *initial* read on Amy when you voted? What specifically about her subsequent posts made you think town?

I never voted lol why do people keep saying that my vote for dizzy just now was my first vote!

but yes when I initially agreed with rabbit's case on amy, I thought that it made sense amy looked most generally wolfy out of the people who had participated much at that point. as she's posted more and especially with her longer posts about the tim stuff and about iaafr I think she's much more in her town meta. and I particularly mindmelded with her iaafr read.



other stuff from the remainder of page 10
-wwh seems pretty towny now, sort of a vague tone thing but the way she's trying to put in some independent work and the way she expressed her take on each tutuu quote, generally feels like her perspective is genuine.
-radish's case on scirrus made me feel worse about radish and better about scirrus.

I am more of a post what I think in a short sentence or two type of person. So doing a larger post was kind of different for me

[Timsup2nothin]

@iaafr
@Amy
@tutuu

My corner of the SS Nutella has developed a large hole and we are taking on water. It may be time to look for a different boat. Either that or some arguments as to why we should stay on board here because as I said my own argument for having gotten on in the first place has come unglued.

you don't need their approval to move your vote off me

LOL...yeah, being an approval seeker is not my style. Be patient, I'm looking to take them with me when I go.

Talk to me about Radishes and his case on Scirrus. I agree with about half of your statement there.

Also, I'm not hyped about scum reading low posters generally, the better challenge is everyone finding one with a good reason to keep them for today and then only considering chopping there is any are left. Mine is Long Con. Can you temporarily clear one? Say for argument we just give Dizzy a day to recover and get his bearings.

BTW my apologies on the voting thing...I would have sworn you actually voted Amy at some point.

[tutuu]

[mention]ColinIsCool[/mention] you are mafia

[iaafr]

moved back onto

[VOTE: Amy] aubergine even before you made that post Tim, just didn't wanna waste a post announcing it

I still kinda wanna believe in my scirrus townread being good but I'm not confident enough to want to defend

seems like amy and radishes are essentially unaligned with scirrus, I doubt their mutual pushes would be bussing or distancing

not like super confident there's wolves in there but they're the least boring viable votes

might be ok yeeting something like colin after all depending but meh gonna sit on Amy for now

tbh the towniest part of Amy's posts to me was wondering if this tunnel was revenge lol, but... yea just not sold on Amy town

[WerewolfHunter]

I haven't got that many reads yet but I've been liking Iaafr's posts so leaning town there

[Timsup2nothin]

A'ight, I'm jumping ship here.

Don't like the great wall of Radishes mostly because it is a day one wall case. Also, can't say I have great confidence in Radishes intentions generally. In other words, Radishes you tend your end of this boat and I'll tend mine.

[VOTE: Scirrus] aubergine

I do lean [mention]Alison[/mention] pretty strong town, and her sense on Scirrus seemed to support my own pretty well.

[WerewolfHunter]

I asked players on my home site of a baseline way to try and understand my play style.

I feel your style is "inhibited".
In the sense that your skills emerges mid to late game and then you shine.

I think you are killed D1 in 95% of the games I've been in with you. So you are inhibited in getting your engine revved up.

When you get going, I think you are sneaky and subtle and can blend in well.
You just need to get over that D1/early game hump.

[Dyslexicon]

Lol, Scirrus? What did you do? Did you rand scum or are you just so incredibly scummy again? =p

[Dyslexicon]

Expect me to 100 % slank this game. Not sorry at all. But you all seem cool though - everyone I know and don't know quite as well. ^^

[iaafr]

I think I liked radishes defense of Nutella and I think his sus of scirrus is genuine but I still find scirrus townier than I find amy

might have to reread scirrus and see if this impression actually holds up, but I wasn't lying when I said first impression of scirrus posts had me put him in like top 4 town

[Dyslexicon]

Not going to catch up before tomorrow. Don't know when day ends. Please keep posting to a minimum. Thank you.

[Dyslexicon]

Scirrus has 16 posts, lol, so yeah, probably maifa. Speed yeet!

[nutella]

Lol, Scirrus? What did you do? Did you rand scum or are you just so incredibly scummy again? =p

not the kind of entry I was hoping for

[iaafr]

tfw dizzys nothing sus makes me want to switch to scirrus

cuz dizzy probably has scirrus meta and idk

maybe I'll do my own metadive later too

[WerewolfHunter]

this is another opinion as well

from the few games we've played together, I would say that you second guess yourself too much. You've changed your mind at the last minute many times. You should trust your instincts more they are quite good.

[tutuu]

think wh is town for this self-centerdness of making a flurry of posts about herself impromptu (dont mean it in a rude way)

[WerewolfHunter]

think wh is town for this self-centerdness of making a flurry of posts about herself impromptu (dont mean it in a rude way)

Personally, I want others to have a perspective on how I play. I felt the best way was to ask others I've played with

[colonialbob]

Benson:

Spoiler: show

i just reread the entire thread and wow im actually pretty scummy wonder how many people are scumreading me

actually i disagree? i thought u were kinda towny

why did u scumread yourself? i wanna argue your read on yourself

WAIT

OK, this might be wolfy.

I'm interested. Why is it wolfy?

I don't know if wanting to disagree and saying he's been towny feels natural. Like what was even towny anyways? Idk, that's obviously not a compelling argument.
But it's always easier for wolves to just pop-in to express disagreement in places where they *know* they are correct. You know?

22/30

re: alison yes i understand that but i just thought it didnt make much sense to me to pre-emptively reveal your thoughts to someone you're trying to interrogate. id peronsally keep that to myself but i guess thats ujst me and i have no reason to believe this is scummy for u

re: benson i thought he was just free-flowy and trying to start conversations and stuff like that. he made the first post that broke the tone of the game from chit-chat to a serious post when he asked tims2upnothing about something that i forgot what was it but i remember thinking that i didnt think iaafr was interested the answer but he just asked to get the ball rolling at least thats the impressino i got but i didnt imemdiately say itt that i find it towny cuz i wasnt that confident but now i feel kinda cornered to say this?

edit linki (alisons's last post) i kinda agree that i also feel a bit sketched out. he could be town and that could just be humor but idk

I mean, you were confident enough to stop iaarf to tell him you disagreed and thought he was towny.
I won't push this point any further because it is very minor, but I personally don't think that felt like a genuine read.

29/30

tr on proto, i think he believes the stuff he believes. (u can call this sort of a meta read). if ur unsatisfied with this explanation u can ask me for further stuff to say

i have 2 choices for alison. 1) tr her for her enthusiasm to try to catch me scum or 2) scumread her if i put the bar a little higher and expect her to not make overly wrong reads on me. and i think her second post saying "town tutuu does X and scum tutuu does Y" was silly considering the game was like 30-40 posts in none of my friends had even posted by that point AND also the fact that she has never seen me play mafia so idk how could she say with confidence what would maf tutuu do. Despite her being wrong on both of these stuff gth i still wanna call her town. perhaps part of ot could be rock-paper-scissors fallacy (i just invented this fallacy). basically rock paper scissors is down to luck, but also not. so in this context i think that if alison rolled mafia against me this game and she saw that i was town, i think her approach wouldnt be to start by making an illogical push on me (this is the rock paper scissors). so she can b lean town

i also slightly wanna tr nanook primarily cuz he called me town and i liked it.

i read ur stuff about tim, amy, and respectfully i will disagree, ive never played with him b4 but i still think i saw a town posting town stuff, so

Reads:
tutuu
proto

tim
alison

nanook

rest

I wanted to question why you felt you absolutet needed to resolve Alison into a TR or SR, but the deliberation you go through in this post feels really towny.


On a different note: nute's flip flopping is nutty.

Well my break was short lived.

I needed to return to tell you all that tutuu is now added to the town whale pod. The thought progression from post to post and within each post is just so villagery, even despite the weirdness of the more recent stuff.
Alison's application to the pod is pending.

I might be getting hard pocketed but let's ignore that for now.

disregard everything i said. an AWP cant kill the mafia fast enough. iaafr and nutella are both mafia. give me 10 seconds and i will find the other 2

4/60

AWP?

But iaafr and nutella being w/w is the spice I needed to marinate this D1. I have no opinion on the read itself but I like it.

i really desire to play mafia and to get in the thick of things and u know accusations throwing around AtE OMGUS lamist wifom all of those flying over my head like a bar brawl and suddenly there's a gangster right who shoots up the bar with a tommy gun but instead of bullet it flies tunneling, fake claiming, tmi, all those good stuff

whats the hold up lets brawl already please. iaafr obv mafia. nutella obv mafia. tutuu town. proto town. alison town. tim town. beluga whale town. nanook town. radish town. amy town.

anyone who disagrees with me is confirmed member of the mafia

anyone who agrees with me and has a gun please use it to shoot someone in our poe which we all reached a consensus on based off of our town core

6/60

Lmao. Epic.

Not that I think any of this is wolfy, but your tone has changed SO much from the player at the beginning of the game. What happened? Was it just that you became more comfortable in the game and in your reads that now you want to push the areas you think are promising?

Progression on tutuu - goes from light sus to town firm. Definitely could be genuine but... well let's keep going.

Spoiler: show

I actually think iaafr thinking his own play is scummy, and scrutinizing it, and half-jokingly(?) calling it scummy is pretty sketchy. On average, wolves tend to be far more aware of how scummy their posts look (with some exceptions), and they often see those posts as scummier than average because they're biased knowing their own alignment. Scumreading his own play is I think a pre-emptive thing to get ahead of people who might want to call those posts out and make them feel silly for doing so.

Normally, absolutely. But with iaafr I honestly don't know. He's rather unconventional, but I have only played with him once where he was town.

Actually, I want to talk about proto's entrance because I'm surprised no one else is talking about that (unless I missed it). I'm talking specially about the self-conscious meta talk as the first thing they wrote.
Because on the surface it gives me super wolfy vibes, even if it was probably written by a villager *that just plays like that*. Anyone else put off by that or have a take on this?

I haven't started playing serious yet, but if I did it would be something I'd bring up too. Self-aware and some reads seem forced.

Scirrus' entrance also poor. Generic roleplay that attempts to disguise an uncomfortable thread entrance.

But I'm not playing serious yet, so I'll just have to wait to mention these thoughts until I am.

27

Well, I think this can be true; but I think you have to look at the type of player first. Because a player that is frequently scum read for doing ostensibly wolfy things as a villager will probably become over self-conscious in general. Because they obviously are worried about getting miselimed.
And I gather that this is the case, or might be. Correct me if I'm wrong.


Stop trying to not be serious while being serious imo.

I bet rabbit has 300 tabs open with the posts he's gonna make as soon as he's permitted.

Hi Dyslexicon! And anyone else that I haven't said anything to.

------

I hate slips but did WH slip?

I didn't see a greeting post from you before that, are you sure you don't mean in the signup thread? lol

Yes, I'm pretty certain I did one

Maybe, I accidentally posted in wrong thread. Sorry about that. I was pretty certain that I had

Posted a greeting in the woofer chat instead and then thought you did that here as well?
How would you forget about that?

Idk, it's a reach for sure. Maybe the linki thing came up and she thought the post went through.

Ugh, I guess my next post may be my last for a while.

29

lol
I was just about to say I was concerned with Amy so far. Noticeable lack of engagement.

I'm not going to hard defend Amy, or anyone else at this point, but a scum case based on low motivation in a day zero is not making me jump for the torch and pitchfork either. I'll have a comprehensive reads post sometime about twenty real time hours into day one, but right now I have some first impressions at most.

I mean I have no real case on Amy. That's just an intuition read.

Send those impressions, imo.
The less well-thought-out the better.

I'm not going to hard defend Amy, or anyone else at this point, but a scum case based on low motivation in a day zero is not making me jump for the torch and pitchfork either. I'll have a comprehensive reads post sometime about twenty real time hours into day one, but right now I have some first impressions at most.

I mean I have no real case on Amy. That's just an intuition read.

Send those impressions, imo.
The less well-thought-out the better.

I got towny feelies for you, Tutuu, Alison, Rabbit, and Nutella...mostly null on the rest of the people who posted...I'm trying to decide if what I said about Radishes is true. That was a really "towny mindset" post if he got there unconsciously...and I don't really know Radishes well enough to claim it was in his wolf range to fake like I said.

Unless you're reading that post deeper than I am, I don't see why it wouldn't be that hard for him to fake as wolf. He's a good wolf and can definitely fake a mindset like that.
That said, he generally gives me a good feeling so far.

Okay, so didn't overestimate the Master Radishes. Will keep in mind.

Feelies on Alison and Tutuu based on their initial clash being too attention grabby to be w/w, and Tutuu's reaction being too calm to be a wolf randomly tunneled by a villager friend.

Any thoughts here?

I think scum theater is in play, though unlikely. I agree with the latter assessment and overall I come out of D0 with a town lean on tutuu as well.

Regarding Amy's defense, I think it mostly doesn't change anything for me. I initially had a strong suspicious that it all felt wolfy and overly crafted and defensive, but I couldn't really justify that in words. So I don't have much else to say, other than rabbit's read sound plausible: unmotivated wolf lacked motivation to project town. I agree that Amy is probably the player that can easily fake whatever is needed to fake in the early game - and that's why I'm not pushing this much harder - but the motivation thing is a genuine tell. Like I'd 100% be less amped to be in the thread and post if I wasn't town right now. We'll see how the round unfolded. I do like the Amy is confident she'll project town before long.


Scirrus...I don't know what to say. I want to call the catch up posts wolfy but shouldn't because that probably stems from the fact that I don't particularly enjoy reading posts like that (when the quotes are sporadic, don't follow a central theme, and the responses aren't anything substantial. But I can't blame someone for not always being around to interact in real-time. Especially in this format.

4 wolves is what I'm assuming as well.

I have no read on rabbit admittedly. I have reasons to go in either direction but they aren't strong. I might try to ISO or something tonight.
One thing that bothered me specifically was him saying that he liked how I was staying on Amy and that it felt genuine. I can understand why you'd have reason to TR me and I don't know if that holds as one of them. Stuff like that kinda pings me as potentially non-genuine. Also starting to get paranoid pocket attempts are successfully being made (in general) but that's harder to substantiate.
Anyways, I'm on Amy and not Nutella right now for nebulous (or not) reasons. Nutella is worse by many measurements right now.

holy fuck is it 1:40

I need to go the fuck to bed

Sorry for the people who hate my posting style. I work late and I'm tired a lot and i'm slow at catching up, it's just the reality for me these days

I feel like voting MR because I disliked his "not serious" excuse while shading me and proto and his push on WH seemed opportunistic too

[VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine

I think people don't like your posting style because there is little coherency in the individual posts, making it difficult to read. Before you take that as an insult let me explain: obviously what you're saying on its own is coherently; but when you quote multiple unrelated posts from yesterday and comment on each one separately it becomes hard to follow. Like, I'm sure it's a useful exercise for yourself, but I personally can't get much out of those posts, which leads to that frustration. Sorry if that's too harsh. You can definitely keep doing your thing I don't think I'll be able to really read you properly until you put those scattered thoughts into one place and one conclusion. I mean, unless your goal is to hide behind those catch-up posts.

Actually I don't mind the wagons on Amy/Nutella either tbh.

Maybe it would be more productive to build these two up?

[VOTE: AMY] aubergine

Generally, I would find this towny. But when you say you're gonna do it, it kinda takes away.

Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one.

People that have played with Radishes before, what do you think of him so far?

I have the most experience with MR out of anyone here. I can tell you that you are justified in being suspicious right now.

Boy this is a lot of "hmm suspicious but not that suspicious idk" or "townie but also could be bad idk".

Spoiler: show

Guys I just realised our host needs to start his semifinal game in like four days.

Let's go for the sweep so he won't be distracted.

I played in a game that was hosted by a champs participant during their qualifying match. They did fine and directly advanced. I have every confidence that TSP can handle this.

Besides, for wolves even a sweep takes many days and you my dear root vegetable are far from a lock town at this point.

I like the insertion of that subtle assumption into the conversation though, even if I had to reject it. Points for effort.

28

This post seems kinda serious compared to what it's responding to. Hmm.



Mafia philosophical question: is intuition or rationality more important to you when forming reads? Or is that a bad dichotomy.

God, I hope we get to the next phase and I can post tonight.

It may be far less serious than it appears.

Or it may be highly nuanced. Perhaps...

It expresses support for and confidence in the host, possibly attempting to pocket him for reasons unknown.
It fires a warning shot across the bow for Master Radishes implying that his posts will be assessed with more than just a casual level of scrutiny.
It serves to warn other players that subtle assumptions made about innocuous posts can be used to influence their subsequent reads, and that a highly evolved wolf such as Master Radishes would be if he randed wolf may use such tactics.
It also serves as fair warning that if I had randed wolf I also am a wolf of that nature so should be handled carefully.
It produces the wifom that if I HAD randed wolf I would not want townies to start thinking on such subtle levels so I would have just let it pass, so it effectively town tells me.

Or it could have just been the setup line for a joke about common root vegetables and Master Radishes. I leave it to you to determine for yourself whether to treat me as a highly nuanced player looking five layers deep into every post made, or to treat me as a happy go lucky jokester giving a day zero exactly the minimal weight that it probably deserves.

Damn. I enjoyed my time trying to figure this post out :fry:
But I think you will be handled carefully, even if you are joking.

I have decided to go back to just posting things that are funny since apparently no one cared about what I thought.

I care, Tim. I care.

tutuu is town for that massive wall of text with incredibly convoluted reasoning about my alignment. Wolves don't put their mind so deep into the weeds for someone whose alignment they already know.

I'm gut reading proto town.

MR and tim have some W/W equity for a very "theater"-like interaction.

Benson seems like he's lonely and trying to reach out to people, which is town. Also Benson, my experience with proto has led me to feel absolutely no discomfort at his "self-conscious meta talk". I get why you feel suspicious about it - I had similar thoughts on iaafr. I'm just saying, from my own meta experience it's not something I'm concerned about.

Impressively accurate soul read on me, tbh.

I know I wasn't very clear, but I'm not actually suspicious of proto. I just thought their entrance was something people would consider "classically wolfy" (like MR did) on the surface, despite that not necessarily being the case. I know some players have reason to act overly self-conscious as town as well. I'm glad your meta on them supports that.

Eh it's a reach because we don't have private threads like on MU, it's usually only on discord, so I don't think she'd confuse it. unless maybe replying to the host pm? More likely she's talking about the signup thread.

Ah gotcha. I didn't see anything in the signup thread that would makes sense as a greeting for the game, however.
I'm really sorry if this is getting angleshooty.



Some random reads before I have to leave:

Alison - Seems comfortable being in the driver's seat right now. I have no meta on her and she self-admittedly "likes to powerwolf", but her comfort level appears villagery. Her reads are good and the progression looks genuine at least.

Nutella - Kind of comes across like she's sheeping reads/ideas and then not following through or doing much about it. I know that's a harsh oversimplification but this is the abstraction I've made from reading her posts. Need more original takes.

Kza - Admittedly, I didn't notice the epicness of his "accuracy" joke earlier, haha. But seriously, I would think that he'd be posting more actual opinions or takes or anything if he's town here. If just seems like he doesn't know what to post or how to insert himself in any of the conversations.

Well this is it. Bye bye for now.

Spoiler: show

clarifying that the first post was a meme (and therefore invalid reason to sus) is a bit on the flatly defensive side; that sort of sus couldve been handled in a lot more playful manner (this point might be the weakest).

i mean, in my personal opinion this is a reach. i saw it as clarification for the sake of clarification, ive flatly clarified a bunch of stuff already this game i feel like (and reminder im town) altho maybe they werent flat and i just cant accurately recognize how i come off as but. mm. idk, like, ... nvm actually u do say it yourself that this point might be weakest

i like the person with the whale avatar. was it benson? i like alison's tr on him alot.

looks like im in the minority but i kind of dislike nutella? (in the sense of not townreading her obviously!). i think that shes hard to read, finding her as town in pyre mafia wasnt easy, a lot of ppl were scumreading her but i managed to do it. and in this game i feel like if she's town it's ... even harder to find her? and everyone townreading her is just making me paused. am i in the wrong here to perceive nutella this way, or am i not? that is the question

1/60

Legit lold at the whale avatar thing. Names are forgettable but beluga whales are forever.

Spoiler: show

I don't know if you saw, but I've been lightly sussing nute so far. I've towned with her once before and I feel like I found her pretty quickly because she projected well with how villagery her stream-of-conscious posting came across. The constraints of this game are certainly different but I'm not seeing those towny thoughts. Like she's mainly just agreed or disagreed with things that others are saying. But maybe it was D0 and she didn't care that much?

I think I'll force myself to break for the night so I don't waste too many posts before the round has really started.

Of the less prominent players, I do agree that LC looks towny. I like his entire attitude so far.
But the rest are pretty null. I've honestly forgotten the posts of players like Proto and Colin. Actually Colin did say something that pinged me, where he dismissed the Amy wagon and supported the nutella suspicions (I think). I'd want to know more about that.

Nanook I'm probably going to have trouble reading because of how he plays. I think and hope he'll do more elaborating on his reads today.

Dyslexicon popped in to say something. I said 'hi' and he didn't say hi back so he's basically confirmed mafia.

Kza, like I said, is struggling to get involved in the game. Or he really doesn't care, but I would expect more if he's town here. GIVE ME SOMETHING KAZ.

-------------------

the strength of her insistence on the proto meta read is rubbing me the wrong way, maybe it's too easy to call it tmi but it does kinda remind me of how i sometimes whiteknight townies as scum

OMG, finally a towny take! (Not that I agree)


Tutuu, can you help us understand the meta read and what proto has done to fit that town meta?

I also DO do shit D1, I explicitly believe in catching mafia D1, and, most importantly, I've been doing shit on D1 this game

I only remember some vague reads that were a while ago now. Have those changed? Are there new reads? Help me read you.

------------

actually yeah huh nutella never actually makes a post about my slot between saying she buys my defense and dropping me in the PoE. talk to me about myself nut. where am i at for you

also nutella/iaafr never w/w ever, if nutella's a wolf she absolutely TMI'd him v

11/60 remembering to include these is hard but remembering my post total without them is going to be harder

Not going to quote all your posts before here are my fast thoughts before I go to work.

The reaction vote and subsequent analysis is good. It's a genuine play and I think the your conclusions are ostensibly towny. That said, you may be looking too far into what is actually there, but I can't condemn you on that.

Now the reads list: it feels super convenient that your CW ends up as top scum. But I do share suspicions with the quote above, as much as it could easily be a twtbw thing.

Finally the intuition-read: I can't articulate why exactly right - or I'm too lazy too - but almost your entire game feels very crafted and agenda-y, as opposed to something naturally flowing. That's why I'm still on your wagon.

The villager appears to pour itself down, and indeed its villageryness pours in all direction, but the stream does not run out. This pouring is linear extension: that is why its beams are called rays, because they radiate in extended lines

OK I'll stop with the dumb quotes.


Also, the nutella wagon is feeling rather "easy". Like until MR, there was no actual resistance and basically everyone was like "yup nute is scummy". Maybe her teammates are bussers and low-posters but idk.


--------

MR:
I'm town by post count...in a game where we're limited to 30 per 24 hours basically?

No. Are you trying to slander my wolf game indirectly? lol

Uh, yeah, you post less as a wolf. Sorry to burst that bubble for you. Here, you’re post-capping yourself, and perhaps more specifically your posts are all game-related, which is more what I meant anyway. You’re engaged. I know you hate when I call you the t-word because you never trust me in return, but too bad. Even your handling of me here fits with your town meta.

Your PoE is also too easy for an MR PoE tbh

What is this, CDC?

Ah feck off. You haven't even seen me wolf in a while and the difference is marginal in terms of actual post count. Like it would be something like 90% of my town posting rate and that's not something that would show up in a 60 post-per-phase capped game.

@Benson you seem to be here, yes?

I'm going to go eat lunch. Leave me a summary of why nutella? I got lazy when reading the pages I missed whilst sleeping and didn't pay attention.

You didn't ask me, and I'm sort of in morning catch up over breakfast mode, but since Benluga Whale didn't mention it...

My biggest, and probably only, problem with Nutella is her Amy read. It's maybe too small a problem to justify being on a four vote wagon but at this early stage it is more than I have on anyone else and she has thus far offered no explanation.

If you ISO her and specifically jump out for context when her Amy views shift there never seems to be any good reason...and her view shifts A LOT. It reads to me as (possibly) "is there really a chance to mischop a strong player like Amy day one here?" If Amy is not a wolf I KNOW that a Nutella wolf team would be overjoyed to get rid of her without an NK, but would also be wary about getting caught actively pushing such a wagon...and that's kind of the feeling I get from her.

Yeah, I didn't mention that read flip flop because I think it's pretty NAI for nutella. She tends to do that as town (the shifting views), so if anything it may be a good sign. But the point you bring up still seems reasonable - regarding her happily pushing a miselim on Amy if the support is there from others.

I really just want to know what nutella's follow up is to all that.

I'm overly focusing on radish because I know him the most, but he still truly doesn't sit well with me. Like I wouldn't expect a full reads list out of him this early before he's really done significant investigative work; and he evidently hasn't done that. The list just looks like work for the sake of work. Sorry, MR, if you're town and I'm disrespecting you right now.
My new spicy take is that if we're just totally on point with nutella, then maybe he's wolfing with her. Or maybe it's a TMI read so he can salvage some town equity is she's miselimed.

Who says I haven't done investigative work?

Of course you have done some. And I promise to look closely at your Scrirrus case tonight.
But, I expect you as town to do the ground-work before you come up with a big reads list. Like that's the type of thing I thought you would leave until last, when you've explored different topics and done some significant analysis. To lead with the readslist today is something that I can't help but be suspicious of. Because that's an easier way for wolves to re-introduce themselves into the thread and look like they've put in work. And it's also how they operate: start with the "reads" they want to push, and then find the justification/evidence post hoc.
Idk, maybe I'm totally off on that.

Some actual leans here, mostly unqualified. Case on Amy and reasons to be sus of KZA and Radishes. This is hunting. But then there's the nutella thing, and... well here:

Spoiler: show

Of the less prominent players, I do agree that LC looks towny. I like his entire attitude so far.
But the rest are pretty null. I've honestly forgotten the posts of players like Proto and Colin. Actually Colin did say something that pinged me, where he dismissed the Amy wagon and supported the nutella suspicions (I think). I'd want to know more about that.

Nanook I'm probably going to have trouble reading because of how he plays. I think and hope he'll do more elaborating on his reads today.

Dyslexicon popped in to say something. I said 'hi' and he didn't say hi back so he's basically confirmed mafia.

Kza, like I said, is struggling to get involved in the game. Or he really doesn't care, but I would expect more if he's town here. GIVE ME SOMETHING KAZ.

-------------------

the strength of her insistence on the proto meta read is rubbing me the wrong way, maybe it's too easy to call it tmi but it does kinda remind me of how i sometimes whiteknight townies as scum

OMG, finally a towny take! (Not that I agree)


Tutuu, can you help us understand the meta read and what proto has done to fit that town meta?

I also DO do shit D1, I explicitly believe in catching mafia D1, and, most importantly, I've been doing shit on D1 this game

I only remember some vague reads that were a while ago now. Have those changed? Are there new reads? Help me read you.

------------

actually yeah huh nutella never actually makes a post about my slot between saying she buys my defense and dropping me in the PoE. talk to me about myself nut. where am i at for you

also nutella/iaafr never w/w ever, if nutella's a wolf she absolutely TMI'd him v

11/60 remembering to include these is hard but remembering my post total without them is going to be harder

Not going to quote all your posts before here are my fast thoughts before I go to work.

The reaction vote and subsequent analysis is good. It's a genuine play and I think the your conclusions are ostensibly towny. That said, you may be looking too far into what is actually there, but I can't condemn you on that.

Now the reads list: it feels super convenient that your CW ends up as top scum. But I do share suspicions with the quote above, as much as it could easily be a twtbw thing.

Finally the intuition-read: I can't articulate why exactly right - or I'm too lazy too - but almost your entire game feels very crafted and agenda-y, as opposed to something naturally flowing. That's why I'm still on your wagon.

The villager appears to pour itself down, and indeed its villageryness pours in all direction, but the stream does not run out. This pouring is linear extension: that is why its beams are called rays, because they radiate in extended lines

OK I'll stop with the dumb quotes.


Also, the nutella wagon is feeling rather "easy". Like until MR, there was no actual resistance and basically everyone was like "yup nute is scummy". Maybe her teammates are bussers and low-posters but idk.


--------

MR:
I'm town by post count...in a game where we're limited to 30 per 24 hours basically?

No. Are you trying to slander my wolf game indirectly? lol

Uh, yeah, you post less as a wolf. Sorry to burst that bubble for you. Here, you’re post-capping yourself, and perhaps more specifically your posts are all game-related, which is more what I meant anyway. You’re engaged. I know you hate when I call you the t-word because you never trust me in return, but too bad. Even your handling of me here fits with your town meta.

Your PoE is also too easy for an MR PoE tbh

What is this, CDC?

Ah feck off. You haven't even seen me wolf in a while and the difference is marginal in terms of actual post count. Like it would be something like 90% of my town posting rate and that's not something that would show up in a 60 post-per-phase capped game.

@Benson you seem to be here, yes?

I'm going to go eat lunch. Leave me a summary of why nutella? I got lazy when reading the pages I missed whilst sleeping and didn't pay attention.

You didn't ask me, and I'm sort of in morning catch up over breakfast mode, but since Benluga Whale didn't mention it...

My biggest, and probably only, problem with Nutella is her Amy read. It's maybe too small a problem to justify being on a four vote wagon but at this early stage it is more than I have on anyone else and she has thus far offered no explanation.

If you ISO her and specifically jump out for context when her Amy views shift there never seems to be any good reason...and her view shifts A LOT. It reads to me as (possibly) "is there really a chance to mischop a strong player like Amy day one here?" If Amy is not a wolf I KNOW that a Nutella wolf team would be overjoyed to get rid of her without an NK, but would also be wary about getting caught actively pushing such a wagon...and that's kind of the feeling I get from her.

Yeah, I didn't mention that read flip flop because I think it's pretty NAI for nutella. She tends to do that as town (the shifting views), so if anything it may be a good sign. But the point you bring up still seems reasonable - regarding her happily pushing a miselim on Amy if the support is there from others.

I really just want to know what nutella's follow up is to all that.

I'm overly focusing on radish because I know him the most, but he still truly doesn't sit well with me. Like I wouldn't expect a full reads list out of him this early before he's really done significant investigative work; and he evidently hasn't done that. The list just looks like work for the sake of work. Sorry, MR, if you're town and I'm disrespecting you right now.
My new spicy take is that if we're just totally on point with nutella, then maybe he's wolfing with her. Or maybe it's a TMI read so he can salvage some town equity is she's miselimed.

Who says I haven't done investigative work?

Of course you have done some. And I promise to look closely at your Scrirrus case tonight.
But, I expect you as town to do the ground-work before you come up with a big reads list. Like that's the type of thing I thought you would leave until last, when you've explored different topics and done some significant analysis. To lead with the readslist today is something that I can't help but be suspicious of. Because that's an easier way for wolves to re-introduce themselves into the thread and look like they've put in work. And it's also how they operate: start with the "reads" they want to push, and then find the justification/evidence post hoc.
Idk, maybe I'm totally off on that.

So some light sus on nutella earlier, but really seems to jump back and forth. Looking for reasons to townread nutella? The Amy bit in the last post also doesn't really make sense - Benson just laid out a case for why Amy would be sus, but then now nutella is pushing for her miselim? Hmm.

Scumlean.

[colonialbob]

ColinisCool

Spoiler: show

I agree more with the suspicion of Scirrus’ entrance than with the suspicion of Amy, at this point in time.

Only notable post. Pretty much a null.

(tbh it's kinda nice to have a break between the high posters :P)

[colonialbob]

[mention]TonyStarkPrime[/mention] can we get ISO links on pg 1 for myself, dys, and WH? ty

(iaafr will, uh, take a minute.)

[Amy]

moved back onto

[VOTE: Amy] aubergine even before you made that post Tim, just didn't wanna waste a post announcing it

I still kinda wanna believe in my scirrus townread being good but I'm not confident enough to want to defend

seems like amy and radishes are essentially unaligned with scirrus, I doubt their mutual pushes would be bussing or distancing

not like super confident there's wolves in there but they're the least boring viable votes

might be ok yeeting something like colin after all depending but meh gonna sit on Amy for now

tbh the towniest part of Amy's posts to me was wondering if this tunnel was revenge lol, but... yea just not sold on Amy town

explain to me how literally one mention of scirrus - putting him in a :fry: tier on a readslist - counts as a "push"

15/60

[Long Con]

shit i cant do my boy LC like that he deserves an entire post spent on him saying i have him above scirrus in the townreads

(i hope u like this post as ur reading the thread only paying attention to posts that include the words long and con u egomaniac smh)

I think you are getting to know me well.

I have been reading along, I might have glazed over some of the longest post, a lot of the judgment seems to involve knowing how a certain player plays. I think you are all Champs games buddies, right? That's tough for me to analyze, I don't know how well anyone knows anyone enough to know if it's honest or not.

Today, I'll probably end up sheeping whoever I trust the most. I am currently town, and my role will develop less than privately if I survive. I would like to survive.

[iaafr]

moved back onto

[VOTE: Amy] aubergine even before you made that post Tim, just didn't wanna waste a post announcing it

I still kinda wanna believe in my scirrus townread being good but I'm not confident enough to want to defend

seems like amy and radishes are essentially unaligned with scirrus, I doubt their mutual pushes would be bussing or distancing

not like super confident there's wolves in there but they're the least boring viable votes

might be ok yeeting something like colin after all depending but meh gonna sit on Amy for now

tbh the towniest part of Amy's posts to me was wondering if this tunnel was revenge lol, but... yea just not sold on Amy town

explain to me how literally one mention of scirrus - putting him in a :fry: tier on a readslist - counts as a "push"

15/60

not so much a push as like

positioning him as a wagon you'd be ok with going over and unlikely to defend

sorry for imprecise wording once again

[Timsup2nothin]

[mention]iaafr[/mention]
[mention]Dyslexicon[/mention]

In 343 I kinda got up on Scirrus.

When the catch up train reached that station...I got no direct response, which surprised me.

It SEEMS like before that point when I got quoted it was usually a "I don't like" or some other shade type response, and after that point when I got quoted it was usually "seems town here" or other positive tip.

Does this look like typical Scirrus, or is this someone trying to post all these quote walls without really being noticed who decided not to poke the bear?

[Long Con]

4 wolves is what I'm assuming as well.

I have no read on rabbit admittedly. I have reasons to go in either direction but they aren't strong. I might try to ISO or something tonight.
One thing that bothered me specifically was him saying that he liked how I was staying on Amy and that it felt genuine. I can understand why you'd have reason to TR me and I don't know if that holds as one of them. Stuff like that kinda pings me as potentially non-genuine. Also starting to get paranoid pocket attempts are successfully being made (in general) but that's harder to substantiate.
Anyways, I'm on Amy and not Nutella right now for nebulous (or not) reasons. Nutella is worse by many measurements right now.

Questioning the town reads is a ploy I like to use as scum, so this post gave me a little ping.

[Timsup2nothin]

I have added a solid read on the signature banner to my existing avatar read, and Long Con is LOCK TOWN.

Fight me.

[WerewolfHunter]

Heading off for some time

[nutella]

hmm upon a very cursory glance at lion king i'm leaning slightly townier on dizzy and slightly scummier on scirrus
hmmmm

[tutuu]

oh yea u remind me now that finally that game's over i can say that imo i personally thought scirrus was scummy and he was town so im like "idk he looks scummy to me again here so maybe hes town" pretty dumb thought but

[Benson]

Benson:

Spoiler: show

i just reread the entire thread and wow im actually pretty scummy wonder how many people are scumreading me

actually i disagree? i thought u were kinda towny

why did u scumread yourself? i wanna argue your read on yourself

WAIT

OK, this might be wolfy.

I'm interested. Why is it wolfy?

I don't know if wanting to disagree and saying he's been towny feels natural. Like what was even towny anyways? Idk, that's obviously not a compelling argument.
But it's always easier for wolves to just pop-in to express disagreement in places where they *know* they are correct. You know?

22/30

re: alison yes i understand that but i just thought it didnt make much sense to me to pre-emptively reveal your thoughts to someone you're trying to interrogate. id peronsally keep that to myself but i guess thats ujst me and i have no reason to believe this is scummy for u

re: benson i thought he was just free-flowy and trying to start conversations and stuff like that. he made the first post that broke the tone of the game from chit-chat to a serious post when he asked tims2upnothing about something that i forgot what was it but i remember thinking that i didnt think iaafr was interested the answer but he just asked to get the ball rolling at least thats the impressino i got but i didnt imemdiately say itt that i find it towny cuz i wasnt that confident but now i feel kinda cornered to say this?

edit linki (alisons's last post) i kinda agree that i also feel a bit sketched out. he could be town and that could just be humor but idk

I mean, you were confident enough to stop iaarf to tell him you disagreed and thought he was towny.
I won't push this point any further because it is very minor, but I personally don't think that felt like a genuine read.

29/30

tr on proto, i think he believes the stuff he believes. (u can call this sort of a meta read). if ur unsatisfied with this explanation u can ask me for further stuff to say

i have 2 choices for alison. 1) tr her for her enthusiasm to try to catch me scum or 2) scumread her if i put the bar a little higher and expect her to not make overly wrong reads on me. and i think her second post saying "town tutuu does X and scum tutuu does Y" was silly considering the game was like 30-40 posts in none of my friends had even posted by that point AND also the fact that she has never seen me play mafia so idk how could she say with confidence what would maf tutuu do. Despite her being wrong on both of these stuff gth i still wanna call her town. perhaps part of ot could be rock-paper-scissors fallacy (i just invented this fallacy). basically rock paper scissors is down to luck, but also not. so in this context i think that if alison rolled mafia against me this game and she saw that i was town, i think her approach wouldnt be to start by making an illogical push on me (this is the rock paper scissors). so she can b lean town

i also slightly wanna tr nanook primarily cuz he called me town and i liked it.

i read ur stuff about tim, amy, and respectfully i will disagree, ive never played with him b4 but i still think i saw a town posting town stuff, so

Reads:
tutuu
proto

tim
alison

nanook

rest

I wanted to question why you felt you absolutet needed to resolve Alison into a TR or SR, but the deliberation you go through in this post feels really towny.


On a different note: nute's flip flopping is nutty.

Well my break was short lived.

I needed to return to tell you all that tutuu is now added to the town whale pod. The thought progression from post to post and within each post is just so villagery, even despite the weirdness of the more recent stuff.
Alison's application to the pod is pending.

I might be getting hard pocketed but let's ignore that for now.

disregard everything i said. an AWP cant kill the mafia fast enough. iaafr and nutella are both mafia. give me 10 seconds and i will find the other 2

4/60

AWP?

But iaafr and nutella being w/w is the spice I needed to marinate this D1. I have no opinion on the read itself but I like it.

i really desire to play mafia and to get in the thick of things and u know accusations throwing around AtE OMGUS lamist wifom all of those flying over my head like a bar brawl and suddenly there's a gangster right who shoots up the bar with a tommy gun but instead of bullet it flies tunneling, fake claiming, tmi, all those good stuff

whats the hold up lets brawl already please. iaafr obv mafia. nutella obv mafia. tutuu town. proto town. alison town. tim town. beluga whale town. nanook town. radish town. amy town.

anyone who disagrees with me is confirmed member of the mafia

anyone who agrees with me and has a gun please use it to shoot someone in our poe which we all reached a consensus on based off of our town core

6/60

Lmao. Epic.

Not that I think any of this is wolfy, but your tone has changed SO much from the player at the beginning of the game. What happened? Was it just that you became more comfortable in the game and in your reads that now you want to push the areas you think are promising?

Progression on tutuu - goes from light sus to town firm. Definitely could be genuine but... well let's keep going.

Spoiler: show

I actually think iaafr thinking his own play is scummy, and scrutinizing it, and half-jokingly(?) calling it scummy is pretty sketchy. On average, wolves tend to be far more aware of how scummy their posts look (with some exceptions), and they often see those posts as scummier than average because they're biased knowing their own alignment. Scumreading his own play is I think a pre-emptive thing to get ahead of people who might want to call those posts out and make them feel silly for doing so.

Normally, absolutely. But with iaafr I honestly don't know. He's rather unconventional, but I have only played with him once where he was town.

Actually, I want to talk about proto's entrance because I'm surprised no one else is talking about that (unless I missed it). I'm talking specially about the self-conscious meta talk as the first thing they wrote.
Because on the surface it gives me super wolfy vibes, even if it was probably written by a villager *that just plays like that*. Anyone else put off by that or have a take on this?

I haven't started playing serious yet, but if I did it would be something I'd bring up too. Self-aware and some reads seem forced.

Scirrus' entrance also poor. Generic roleplay that attempts to disguise an uncomfortable thread entrance.

But I'm not playing serious yet, so I'll just have to wait to mention these thoughts until I am.

27

Well, I think this can be true; but I think you have to look at the type of player first. Because a player that is frequently scum read for doing ostensibly wolfy things as a villager will probably become over self-conscious in general. Because they obviously are worried about getting miselimed.
And I gather that this is the case, or might be. Correct me if I'm wrong.


Stop trying to not be serious while being serious imo.

I bet rabbit has 300 tabs open with the posts he's gonna make as soon as he's permitted.

Hi Dyslexicon! And anyone else that I haven't said anything to.

------

I hate slips but did WH slip?

I didn't see a greeting post from you before that, are you sure you don't mean in the signup thread? lol

Yes, I'm pretty certain I did one

Maybe, I accidentally posted in wrong thread. Sorry about that. I was pretty certain that I had

Posted a greeting in the woofer chat instead and then thought you did that here as well?
How would you forget about that?

Idk, it's a reach for sure. Maybe the linki thing came up and she thought the post went through.

Ugh, I guess my next post may be my last for a while.

29

lol
I was just about to say I was concerned with Amy so far. Noticeable lack of engagement.

I'm not going to hard defend Amy, or anyone else at this point, but a scum case based on low motivation in a day zero is not making me jump for the torch and pitchfork either. I'll have a comprehensive reads post sometime about twenty real time hours into day one, but right now I have some first impressions at most.

I mean I have no real case on Amy. That's just an intuition read.

Send those impressions, imo.
The less well-thought-out the better.

I'm not going to hard defend Amy, or anyone else at this point, but a scum case based on low motivation in a day zero is not making me jump for the torch and pitchfork either. I'll have a comprehensive reads post sometime about twenty real time hours into day one, but right now I have some first impressions at most.

I mean I have no real case on Amy. That's just an intuition read.

Send those impressions, imo.
The less well-thought-out the better.

I got towny feelies for you, Tutuu, Alison, Rabbit, and Nutella...mostly null on the rest of the people who posted...I'm trying to decide if what I said about Radishes is true. That was a really "towny mindset" post if he got there unconsciously...and I don't really know Radishes well enough to claim it was in his wolf range to fake like I said.

Unless you're reading that post deeper than I am, I don't see why it wouldn't be that hard for him to fake as wolf. He's a good wolf and can definitely fake a mindset like that.
That said, he generally gives me a good feeling so far.

Okay, so didn't overestimate the Master Radishes. Will keep in mind.

Feelies on Alison and Tutuu based on their initial clash being too attention grabby to be w/w, and Tutuu's reaction being too calm to be a wolf randomly tunneled by a villager friend.

Any thoughts here?

I think scum theater is in play, though unlikely. I agree with the latter assessment and overall I come out of D0 with a town lean on tutuu as well.

Regarding Amy's defense, I think it mostly doesn't change anything for me. I initially had a strong suspicious that it all felt wolfy and overly crafted and defensive, but I couldn't really justify that in words. So I don't have much else to say, other than rabbit's read sound plausible: unmotivated wolf lacked motivation to project town. I agree that Amy is probably the player that can easily fake whatever is needed to fake in the early game - and that's why I'm not pushing this much harder - but the motivation thing is a genuine tell. Like I'd 100% be less amped to be in the thread and post if I wasn't town right now. We'll see how the round unfolded. I do like the Amy is confident she'll project town before long.


Scirrus...I don't know what to say. I want to call the catch up posts wolfy but shouldn't because that probably stems from the fact that I don't particularly enjoy reading posts like that (when the quotes are sporadic, don't follow a central theme, and the responses aren't anything substantial. But I can't blame someone for not always being around to interact in real-time. Especially in this format.

4 wolves is what I'm assuming as well.

I have no read on rabbit admittedly. I have reasons to go in either direction but they aren't strong. I might try to ISO or something tonight.
One thing that bothered me specifically was him saying that he liked how I was staying on Amy and that it felt genuine. I can understand why you'd have reason to TR me and I don't know if that holds as one of them. Stuff like that kinda pings me as potentially non-genuine. Also starting to get paranoid pocket attempts are successfully being made (in general) but that's harder to substantiate.
Anyways, I'm on Amy and not Nutella right now for nebulous (or not) reasons. Nutella is worse by many measurements right now.

holy fuck is it 1:40

I need to go the fuck to bed

Sorry for the people who hate my posting style. I work late and I'm tired a lot and i'm slow at catching up, it's just the reality for me these days

I feel like voting MR because I disliked his "not serious" excuse while shading me and proto and his push on WH seemed opportunistic too

[VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine

I think people don't like your posting style because there is little coherency in the individual posts, making it difficult to read. Before you take that as an insult let me explain: obviously what you're saying on its own is coherently; but when you quote multiple unrelated posts from yesterday and comment on each one separately it becomes hard to follow. Like, I'm sure it's a useful exercise for yourself, but I personally can't get much out of those posts, which leads to that frustration. Sorry if that's too harsh. You can definitely keep doing your thing I don't think I'll be able to really read you properly until you put those scattered thoughts into one place and one conclusion. I mean, unless your goal is to hide behind those catch-up posts.

Actually I don't mind the wagons on Amy/Nutella either tbh.

Maybe it would be more productive to build these two up?

[VOTE: AMY] aubergine

Generally, I would find this towny. But when you say you're gonna do it, it kinda takes away.

Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one.

People that have played with Radishes before, what do you think of him so far?

I have the most experience with MR out of anyone here. I can tell you that you are justified in being suspicious right now.

Boy this is a lot of "hmm suspicious but not that suspicious idk" or "townie but also could be bad idk".

Spoiler: show

Guys I just realised our host needs to start his semifinal game in like four days.

Let's go for the sweep so he won't be distracted.

I played in a game that was hosted by a champs participant during their qualifying match. They did fine and directly advanced. I have every confidence that TSP can handle this.

Besides, for wolves even a sweep takes many days and you my dear root vegetable are far from a lock town at this point.

I like the insertion of that subtle assumption into the conversation though, even if I had to reject it. Points for effort.

28

This post seems kinda serious compared to what it's responding to. Hmm.



Mafia philosophical question: is intuition or rationality more important to you when forming reads? Or is that a bad dichotomy.

God, I hope we get to the next phase and I can post tonight.

It may be far less serious than it appears.

Or it may be highly nuanced. Perhaps...

It expresses support for and confidence in the host, possibly attempting to pocket him for reasons unknown.
It fires a warning shot across the bow for Master Radishes implying that his posts will be assessed with more than just a casual level of scrutiny.
It serves to warn other players that subtle assumptions made about innocuous posts can be used to influence their subsequent reads, and that a highly evolved wolf such as Master Radishes would be if he randed wolf may use such tactics.
It also serves as fair warning that if I had randed wolf I also am a wolf of that nature so should be handled carefully.
It produces the wifom that if I HAD randed wolf I would not want townies to start thinking on such subtle levels so I would have just let it pass, so it effectively town tells me.

Or it could have just been the setup line for a joke about common root vegetables and Master Radishes. I leave it to you to determine for yourself whether to treat me as a highly nuanced player looking five layers deep into every post made, or to treat me as a happy go lucky jokester giving a day zero exactly the minimal weight that it probably deserves.

Damn. I enjoyed my time trying to figure this post out :fry:
But I think you will be handled carefully, even if you are joking.

I have decided to go back to just posting things that are funny since apparently no one cared about what I thought.

I care, Tim. I care.

tutuu is town for that massive wall of text with incredibly convoluted reasoning about my alignment. Wolves don't put their mind so deep into the weeds for someone whose alignment they already know.

I'm gut reading proto town.

MR and tim have some W/W equity for a very "theater"-like interaction.

Benson seems like he's lonely and trying to reach out to people, which is town. Also Benson, my experience with proto has led me to feel absolutely no discomfort at his "self-conscious meta talk". I get why you feel suspicious about it - I had similar thoughts on iaafr. I'm just saying, from my own meta experience it's not something I'm concerned about.

Impressively accurate soul read on me, tbh.

I know I wasn't very clear, but I'm not actually suspicious of proto. I just thought their entrance was something people would consider "classically wolfy" (like MR did) on the surface, despite that not necessarily being the case. I know some players have reason to act overly self-conscious as town as well. I'm glad your meta on them supports that.

Eh it's a reach because we don't have private threads like on MU, it's usually only on discord, so I don't think she'd confuse it. unless maybe replying to the host pm? More likely she's talking about the signup thread.

Ah gotcha. I didn't see anything in the signup thread that would makes sense as a greeting for the game, however.
I'm really sorry if this is getting angleshooty.



Some random reads before I have to leave:

Alison - Seems comfortable being in the driver's seat right now. I have no meta on her and she self-admittedly "likes to powerwolf", but her comfort level appears villagery. Her reads are good and the progression looks genuine at least.

Nutella - Kind of comes across like she's sheeping reads/ideas and then not following through or doing much about it. I know that's a harsh oversimplification but this is the abstraction I've made from reading her posts. Need more original takes.

Kza - Admittedly, I didn't notice the epicness of his "accuracy" joke earlier, haha. But seriously, I would think that he'd be posting more actual opinions or takes or anything if he's town here. If just seems like he doesn't know what to post or how to insert himself in any of the conversations.

Well this is it. Bye bye for now.

Spoiler: show

clarifying that the first post was a meme (and therefore invalid reason to sus) is a bit on the flatly defensive side; that sort of sus couldve been handled in a lot more playful manner (this point might be the weakest).

i mean, in my personal opinion this is a reach. i saw it as clarification for the sake of clarification, ive flatly clarified a bunch of stuff already this game i feel like (and reminder im town) altho maybe they werent flat and i just cant accurately recognize how i come off as but. mm. idk, like, ... nvm actually u do say it yourself that this point might be weakest

i like the person with the whale avatar. was it benson? i like alison's tr on him alot.

looks like im in the minority but i kind of dislike nutella? (in the sense of not townreading her obviously!). i think that shes hard to read, finding her as town in pyre mafia wasnt easy, a lot of ppl were scumreading her but i managed to do it. and in this game i feel like if she's town it's ... even harder to find her? and everyone townreading her is just making me paused. am i in the wrong here to perceive nutella this way, or am i not? that is the question

1/60

Legit lold at the whale avatar thing. Names are forgettable but beluga whales are forever.

Spoiler: show

I don't know if you saw, but I've been lightly sussing nute so far. I've towned with her once before and I feel like I found her pretty quickly because she projected well with how villagery her stream-of-conscious posting came across. The constraints of this game are certainly different but I'm not seeing those towny thoughts. Like she's mainly just agreed or disagreed with things that others are saying. But maybe it was D0 and she didn't care that much?

I think I'll force myself to break for the night so I don't waste too many posts before the round has really started.

Of the less prominent players, I do agree that LC looks towny. I like his entire attitude so far.
But the rest are pretty null. I've honestly forgotten the posts of players like Proto and Colin. Actually Colin did say something that pinged me, where he dismissed the Amy wagon and supported the nutella suspicions (I think). I'd want to know more about that.

Nanook I'm probably going to have trouble reading because of how he plays. I think and hope he'll do more elaborating on his reads today.

Dyslexicon popped in to say something. I said 'hi' and he didn't say hi back so he's basically confirmed mafia.

Kza, like I said, is struggling to get involved in the game. Or he really doesn't care, but I would expect more if he's town here. GIVE ME SOMETHING KAZ.

-------------------

the strength of her insistence on the proto meta read is rubbing me the wrong way, maybe it's too easy to call it tmi but it does kinda remind me of how i sometimes whiteknight townies as scum

OMG, finally a towny take! (Not that I agree)


Tutuu, can you help us understand the meta read and what proto has done to fit that town meta?

I also DO do shit D1, I explicitly believe in catching mafia D1, and, most importantly, I've been doing shit on D1 this game

I only remember some vague reads that were a while ago now. Have those changed? Are there new reads? Help me read you.

------------

actually yeah huh nutella never actually makes a post about my slot between saying she buys my defense and dropping me in the PoE. talk to me about myself nut. where am i at for you

also nutella/iaafr never w/w ever, if nutella's a wolf she absolutely TMI'd him v

11/60 remembering to include these is hard but remembering my post total without them is going to be harder

Not going to quote all your posts before here are my fast thoughts before I go to work.

The reaction vote and subsequent analysis is good. It's a genuine play and I think the your conclusions are ostensibly towny. That said, you may be looking too far into what is actually there, but I can't condemn you on that.

Now the reads list: it feels super convenient that your CW ends up as top scum. But I do share suspicions with the quote above, as much as it could easily be a twtbw thing.

Finally the intuition-read: I can't articulate why exactly right - or I'm too lazy too - but almost your entire game feels very crafted and agenda-y, as opposed to something naturally flowing. That's why I'm still on your wagon.

The villager appears to pour itself down, and indeed its villageryness pours in all direction, but the stream does not run out. This pouring is linear extension: that is why its beams are called rays, because they radiate in extended lines

OK I'll stop with the dumb quotes.


Also, the nutella wagon is feeling rather "easy". Like until MR, there was no actual resistance and basically everyone was like "yup nute is scummy". Maybe her teammates are bussers and low-posters but idk.


--------

MR:
I'm town by post count...in a game where we're limited to 30 per 24 hours basically?

No. Are you trying to slander my wolf game indirectly? lol

Uh, yeah, you post less as a wolf. Sorry to burst that bubble for you. Here, you’re post-capping yourself, and perhaps more specifically your posts are all game-related, which is more what I meant anyway. You’re engaged. I know you hate when I call you the t-word because you never trust me in return, but too bad. Even your handling of me here fits with your town meta.

Your PoE is also too easy for an MR PoE tbh

What is this, CDC?

Ah feck off. You haven't even seen me wolf in a while and the difference is marginal in terms of actual post count. Like it would be something like 90% of my town posting rate and that's not something that would show up in a 60 post-per-phase capped game.

@Benson you seem to be here, yes?

I'm going to go eat lunch. Leave me a summary of why nutella? I got lazy when reading the pages I missed whilst sleeping and didn't pay attention.

You didn't ask me, and I'm sort of in morning catch up over breakfast mode, but since Benluga Whale didn't mention it...

My biggest, and probably only, problem with Nutella is her Amy read. It's maybe too small a problem to justify being on a four vote wagon but at this early stage it is more than I have on anyone else and she has thus far offered no explanation.

If you ISO her and specifically jump out for context when her Amy views shift there never seems to be any good reason...and her view shifts A LOT. It reads to me as (possibly) "is there really a chance to mischop a strong player like Amy day one here?" If Amy is not a wolf I KNOW that a Nutella wolf team would be overjoyed to get rid of her without an NK, but would also be wary about getting caught actively pushing such a wagon...and that's kind of the feeling I get from her.

Yeah, I didn't mention that read flip flop because I think it's pretty NAI for nutella. She tends to do that as town (the shifting views), so if anything it may be a good sign. But the point you bring up still seems reasonable - regarding her happily pushing a miselim on Amy if the support is there from others.

I really just want to know what nutella's follow up is to all that.

I'm overly focusing on radish because I know him the most, but he still truly doesn't sit well with me. Like I wouldn't expect a full reads list out of him this early before he's really done significant investigative work; and he evidently hasn't done that. The list just looks like work for the sake of work. Sorry, MR, if you're town and I'm disrespecting you right now.
My new spicy take is that if we're just totally on point with nutella, then maybe he's wolfing with her. Or maybe it's a TMI read so he can salvage some town equity is she's miselimed.

Who says I haven't done investigative work?

Of course you have done some. And I promise to look closely at your Scrirrus case tonight.
But, I expect you as town to do the ground-work before you come up with a big reads list. Like that's the type of thing I thought you would leave until last, when you've explored different topics and done some significant analysis. To lead with the readslist today is something that I can't help but be suspicious of. Because that's an easier way for wolves to re-introduce themselves into the thread and look like they've put in work. And it's also how they operate: start with the "reads" they want to push, and then find the justification/evidence post hoc.
Idk, maybe I'm totally off on that.

Some actual leans here, mostly unqualified. Case on Amy and reasons to be sus of KZA and Radishes. This is hunting. But then there's the nutella thing, and... well here:

Spoiler: show

Of the less prominent players, I do agree that LC looks towny. I like his entire attitude so far.
But the rest are pretty null. I've honestly forgotten the posts of players like Proto and Colin. Actually Colin did say something that pinged me, where he dismissed the Amy wagon and supported the nutella suspicions (I think). I'd want to know more about that.

Nanook I'm probably going to have trouble reading because of how he plays. I think and hope he'll do more elaborating on his reads today.

Dyslexicon popped in to say something. I said 'hi' and he didn't say hi back so he's basically confirmed mafia.

Kza, like I said, is struggling to get involved in the game. Or he really doesn't care, but I would expect more if he's town here. GIVE ME SOMETHING KAZ.

-------------------

the strength of her insistence on the proto meta read is rubbing me the wrong way, maybe it's too easy to call it tmi but it does kinda remind me of how i sometimes whiteknight townies as scum

OMG, finally a towny take! (Not that I agree)


Tutuu, can you help us understand the meta read and what proto has done to fit that town meta?

I also DO do shit D1, I explicitly believe in catching mafia D1, and, most importantly, I've been doing shit on D1 this game

I only remember some vague reads that were a while ago now. Have those changed? Are there new reads? Help me read you.

------------

actually yeah huh nutella never actually makes a post about my slot between saying she buys my defense and dropping me in the PoE. talk to me about myself nut. where am i at for you

also nutella/iaafr never w/w ever, if nutella's a wolf she absolutely TMI'd him v

11/60 remembering to include these is hard but remembering my post total without them is going to be harder

Not going to quote all your posts before here are my fast thoughts before I go to work.

The reaction vote and subsequent analysis is good. It's a genuine play and I think the your conclusions are ostensibly towny. That said, you may be looking too far into what is actually there, but I can't condemn you on that.

Now the reads list: it feels super convenient that your CW ends up as top scum. But I do share suspicions with the quote above, as much as it could easily be a twtbw thing.

Finally the intuition-read: I can't articulate why exactly right - or I'm too lazy too - but almost your entire game feels very crafted and agenda-y, as opposed to something naturally flowing. That's why I'm still on your wagon.

The villager appears to pour itself down, and indeed its villageryness pours in all direction, but the stream does not run out. This pouring is linear extension: that is why its beams are called rays, because they radiate in extended lines

OK I'll stop with the dumb quotes.


Also, the nutella wagon is feeling rather "easy". Like until MR, there was no actual resistance and basically everyone was like "yup nute is scummy". Maybe her teammates are bussers and low-posters but idk.


--------

MR:
I'm town by post count...in a game where we're limited to 30 per 24 hours basically?

No. Are you trying to slander my wolf game indirectly? lol

Uh, yeah, you post less as a wolf. Sorry to burst that bubble for you. Here, you’re post-capping yourself, and perhaps more specifically your posts are all game-related, which is more what I meant anyway. You’re engaged. I know you hate when I call you the t-word because you never trust me in return, but too bad. Even your handling of me here fits with your town meta.

Your PoE is also too easy for an MR PoE tbh

What is this, CDC?

Ah feck off. You haven't even seen me wolf in a while and the difference is marginal in terms of actual post count. Like it would be something like 90% of my town posting rate and that's not something that would show up in a 60 post-per-phase capped game.

@Benson you seem to be here, yes?

I'm going to go eat lunch. Leave me a summary of why nutella? I got lazy when reading the pages I missed whilst sleeping and didn't pay attention.

You didn't ask me, and I'm sort of in morning catch up over breakfast mode, but since Benluga Whale didn't mention it...

My biggest, and probably only, problem with Nutella is her Amy read. It's maybe too small a problem to justify being on a four vote wagon but at this early stage it is more than I have on anyone else and she has thus far offered no explanation.

If you ISO her and specifically jump out for context when her Amy views shift there never seems to be any good reason...and her view shifts A LOT. It reads to me as (possibly) "is there really a chance to mischop a strong player like Amy day one here?" If Amy is not a wolf I KNOW that a Nutella wolf team would be overjoyed to get rid of her without an NK, but would also be wary about getting caught actively pushing such a wagon...and that's kind of the feeling I get from her.

Yeah, I didn't mention that read flip flop because I think it's pretty NAI for nutella. She tends to do that as town (the shifting views), so if anything it may be a good sign. But the point you bring up still seems reasonable - regarding her happily pushing a miselim on Amy if the support is there from others.

I really just want to know what nutella's follow up is to all that.

I'm overly focusing on radish because I know him the most, but he still truly doesn't sit well with me. Like I wouldn't expect a full reads list out of him this early before he's really done significant investigative work; and he evidently hasn't done that. The list just looks like work for the sake of work. Sorry, MR, if you're town and I'm disrespecting you right now.
My new spicy take is that if we're just totally on point with nutella, then maybe he's wolfing with her. Or maybe it's a TMI read so he can salvage some town equity is she's miselimed.

Who says I haven't done investigative work?

Of course you have done some. And I promise to look closely at your Scrirrus case tonight.
But, I expect you as town to do the ground-work before you come up with a big reads list. Like that's the type of thing I thought you would leave until last, when you've explored different topics and done some significant analysis. To lead with the readslist today is something that I can't help but be suspicious of. Because that's an easier way for wolves to re-introduce themselves into the thread and look like they've put in work. And it's also how they operate: start with the "reads" they want to push, and then find the justification/evidence post hoc.
Idk, maybe I'm totally off on that.

So some light sus on nutella earlier, but really seems to jump back and forth. Looking for reasons to townread nutella? The Amy bit in the last post also doesn't really make sense - Benson just laid out a case for why Amy would be sus, but then now nutella is pushing for her miselim? Hmm.

Scumlean.

I have to rebuke all of this because the things you're highlighting aren't really wolf traits in my experience. It's early and my reads are going to bounce around a lot. I'm not too confident in any of my suspicions right now which is why I'm exploring ALL worlds that I can see. i.e. the scenarios where Amy is wolf and the where's she's town. If you're only tunneling one possibility, then that's probably not going to end well.
I think I am looking for any reasons to townread nutella, or at least give her a D1 pass, because I do enjoy playing with her.

I will say that I think it's towny that you produced this original case against me (even if it's wrong on multiple levels) despite mostly everyone else town-reading me. Like, unless it was purely for the sake of busywork, I don't think most wolves would look at me as someone to push as a potential mislynch or at least lay the groundwork for it.

4 wolves is what I'm assuming as well.

I have no read on rabbit admittedly. I have reasons to go in either direction but they aren't strong. I might try to ISO or something tonight.
One thing that bothered me specifically was him saying that he liked how I was staying on Amy and that it felt genuine. I can understand why you'd have reason to TR me and I don't know if that holds as one of them. Stuff like that kinda pings me as potentially non-genuine. Also starting to get paranoid pocket attempts are successfully being made (in general) but that's harder to substantiate.
Anyways, I'm on Amy and not Nutella right now for nebulous (or not) reasons. Nutella is worse by many measurements right now.

Questioning the town reads is a ploy I like to use as scum, so this post gave me a little ping.

I mean, yes, it's something I can do as a wolf. But for me, how players read me and interact with me is one of the richest sources of information to me. So I always am focused on that. Just look above; I had no read on bob until he cased me. Now I have something.

I have added a solid read on the signature banner to my existing avatar read, and Long Con is LOCK TOWN.

Fight me.

I'm aboard the LC town train

[Alison]

I think if Colin's scum, I'd read his post about the scirrus Amy dichotomy as talking about two town.

which could easily be the world sure

nutella/Tim/Colin/x?

This seems extremely premature.

[Alison]

Actually I don't mind the wagons on Amy/Nutella either tbh.

Maybe it would be more productive to build these two up?

[VOTE: AMY] aubergine

This really rubs me the wrong way. It feels like scum sitting back and egging on townies as they kill each other. I also dislike the framing of it as "productive" (as opposed to "likely to catch scum"). It's similar to call something an info exe - if it goes south, you can just claim it was for information and wash your hands of the blame.

[VOTE: Scirrus] aubergine

[iaafr]

I think if Colin's scum, I'd read his post about the scirrus Amy dichotomy as talking about two town.

which could easily be the world sure

nutella/Tim/Colin/x?

This seems extremely premature.

extremely premature is my middle name

also im back to v on nutella so w/e

my "solving" "method" is generally flipflopping until it feels right so yeah youre gonna keep getting posts like that

also finally on comp, so i am aware of what my postcount is

this is 43/60

definitely gonna run out prematurely but ill take adv of the final hour plenty its fiiiiiiine

reiterating that im not hard opposing scirrus at this point in time (havent done my reread yet) but deep down think its a miss

i am also ok with towning LC; maybe not lock, but i liked the most recent post

also ok with benson's towning of colonialbob

[tutuu]

(i dont like making self-centered posts if i can help it but this one has game relevance, jsyk i kinda feel demotivated to do anything and cant rly control my emotions so yeah just saying if theres a drop in my energy, please know that my alignment is still the same)

[iaafr]

hope you feel better soon tutuu

cuz if you dont im about to deathtunnel you based on your drop in energy, which i perceive as changing your alignment

[Benson]

OK, time to delve into Scirrus.

I tried to read his ISO and I'm still left unhappy. It's just a mash of commentary/agreements/disagreements/questions. Now none of that is bad of course, but when that's literally all there is it gets concerning. Moreover, I quickly looked at that Lion King game you guys have reference (where he was town), and he reads like a different player. Mind you, I only read the first page, but there was way more freedom in how he was posting. Here it's all rigid and constrained to making the same type of posts and without it going anywhere really. It's like when he's in the thread his only focus is to be as "productive" in terms of commenting on different things. But that unadulterated mindset that villagers will also post with is just completed gone from all his posts. It's all too serious.

Alison, I also didn't like how he casually mentioned that he should consider building up the Amy and Nutella wagons. Mainly because if you were town and wanted to build up wagons to see how players respond, you probably don't explicitly state why you're doing so.

Okay actual case on Scirrus, since I see a lot of chatter but not a lot of votes which makes me :fry: ...

Spoiler: show

to be or not to be...

town? scum?

that is the question

but have we ever thought

what is it that truly makes a town a town

what is it that truly makes a scum a scum

in this game, it is our duty, as town, to unlock the essence

of what towniness

actually means

to us

But not just to us!

What towniness

just

is.

I must take slumber my friends. I look forward to playing with you all.

Many unfamiliar faces may prove to be quite the challenge! But never fear. The towny pen is mightier than the scummy sword.

Farewell.

Opening posts have been previously discussed – of all attempts at playing up to the theme of the game, these feel the most deliberately constructed to appear casual. (And on a flavour note, Shakespeare isn’t a philosopher anyway.) This suggests a discomfort in entering the thread. This is not something to base an entire read on, but it’s worth mentioning in conjunction with…

Spoiler: show

No way am I quoting all those long-ass quotewalls. Go open up his iso for yourself.

The bulk of his presence in this game has been the catch-up posts. They are about a third fluff, a third commentary that goes nowhere, and a third softball questions.

But I think what I don’t like is mainly that I feel there’s an agenda Scirrus is maintaining here. Like he keeps quoting and talking to/about the same people (about half of all his quoted posts are from or ultimately end up being about iaafr) and there’s no sense of his own reads evolving – from beginning to end he seems to have the same opinions on these people (e.g. iaafr is town, Tim is town, Amy is sus). There’s a bit of progression on tutuu from being uncertain to leaning town, but that’s about it that I see. Also the intent in selecting quotes is unclear – like, Colin is quoted twice despite barely being in the game, wereas quite a few people who have been active are barely talked to or about.

And then he sums up his reads…

Spoiler: show

so far i'm at like

town: iaafr, benson, tutuu,

town lean: WH, alison, proto,

null: everbody else

nah: MR, Amy, colin

yeah i'm moving tim back to hard null.

need more townleans

my colin read is pretty much omgus from that one post tbh combined with the fact that i've seen nothing else game related from him

I mean you do get a sense of him liking Benson, Alison, and Proto, but there’s little in the way of specifics given as to why they get townreads beyond him quoting some of their posts and commenting on them in a non-negative manner. In fact, I thought he was probing Proto a bit out of some disagreements at one point, but apparently not? And WH – where did that townlean come from? Based on the catch-up I don’t get it seeing as there’s not even a passing mention of WH in those quotewalls. And Tim is now in null despite multiple reasons for liking him as per the quote walls. His scumread of me also seems purely omgus and/or a misunderstanding of my ‘I’m not playing seriously yet’ tongue in cheek post.

-

So basically:
*His opening felt uncomfortable
*His catch up felt disparate and more so seemed posting for the sake of posting
*His ‘catch up’ also was mainly soft questions and commentary and focused on the same handful of players
*He seemed to maintain pre-formed reads, rather than use his catch-up as a means of forming those reads
*His conclusions don’t match what one gets from his quotewalls

I think this is a wolf who is trying to scrape enough marks for a passing grade by showing their work and hoping the teacher doesn’t notice they are just guessing at the answers.

Going through everything again, I do agree with conclusions 2 and 3. The others I think are mostly NAI or aren't as consequential.

I still have concerns - like the fact that this may be a major stylistic difference, exacerbated by the format, that is biasing my reads - but I think he's a good wagon today. Hopefully we can interact in real-time at some point tonight.

[Long Con]

It really doesn't take much to get townread.

[Benson]

Low-poster GTH for shiggles. Wolf or Town.

Kza
Colin
ColonialBob


Where I'm at:

Spoiler: show

KZA - Wolf
Colin - Wolf
Bob - Town

[VOTE: KZA ] aubergine
Offering Kza as a wagon that I think should be viable for this day.

Honestly, there being multiple wolves among the low-presence players makes a lot of sense with this game-state. I don't feel particular confident in anything this game, however.

Ideally this would've been like 3 different posts lol.

Also, lolrabbit for only leaving 15 or so posts until EoD tomorrow.

[Alison]

I mean, unless your goal is to hide behind those catch-up posts.

That is exactly what I think he is doing.

Benson and Amy are town.

[ColinIsCool]

I see some people asked about my post re: Amy and Scirrus. I don’t know either of them, but I don’t see any reason why people are voting for Amy. Looks townish or null to me. Meanwhile Scirrus’ entrance and some of the catch-up (claiming town 4 times in one post?) looks forced. Those are my takes.

I think if Colin's scum, I'd read his post about the scirrus Amy dichotomy as talking about two town.

which could easily be the world sure

nutella/Tim/Colin/x?

How do you have an entire scumteam picked out when you don’t know a single flip?

[ColinIsCool]

Also can people stop reading me as town so much. I don't want to die in the night. Thank you.

Sus

[ColinIsCool]

Ok I'm here. Sorry, first game in a year + a bunch of new people + a lot of meta-reads + new slang to pick up on = having to work much harder to understand the thread. I've read everything but tbh not sure how much of it really sunk in. I think I'm going to try ISOing people and see if that gets me further than trying to digest like 6 pages all at once.

Yeah fair warning I’m not retaining like 90% of the arguments people are having so far, and I haven’t even started drinking yet.