King of the Hill Mafia

[Creature]

I will say though, Rondo saying my takes were consensus mill and then lists 2 of the 6 people in my POE.

I also don’t understand how they went from Aro top town read mixed to with mindmelds, to dropping that read later on.

Hopefully they’ll explain later so I can get a better understanding and discern the progression.

I keep getting paranoid you might be deep wolfing here. Because you sound pretty reasonable and I feel like you had a lot more fire in the Midnight Mash. Perhaps it might be because this is a normal non-mash game. Still I wonder if you're skilled enough to fake solving as wolf.

Well, mash doesn’t have a post cap and the timings were different for me. I still feel I’ve been top posting and putting a lot of content out there for people to see.

I mean if you’d like, you can check out my mafia games I posted earlier in the thread.

It’s interesting to me Creature that your reason of paranoi is solely that I can be a “deep wolf/good player” when from your pov, im currently extending an olive branch and hearing you out.

You're one of my top townreads rn if not the top, but I have never seen your wolf play and I'm concerned you'd be good enough to fake solving.

I ended up wolfreading you earlier because you had dropped off ftr.

Why is arogame your top town read? I don't remember you interacting/vibing with or townclearing him much.

I feel like he's more of everybody's consensus townread for solving and I kinda agreed with it. I was just concerned about arogame123 deepwolfing like Twice who got cleared easily last game.

[arogame123]

I don't know where I stand on Boq and NANOOK. I thought NANOOK voting falcon to prevent a tie yesterday was pretty towny (although it'll prob sound suspicious if Alison flips wolf, but not by much considering he initially was trying to lynch Alison). Boq I keep getting paranoid of him because I kinda think he played a bit differently in Halvosen Ridge, but idk if I want to keep pressing here.

What were some of the differences you noticed between Boq here and Boq there?

I remember Boq was being townread in Halvosen Ridge for seemingly unpartnered/lone and I feel like his posts were more solving-oriented there. In contrast I feel like Boq was more defensive hsre, but maybe it was because he was pushed earlier. Anyway, I still wonder if Boq was wagoned D1 because players were onto something, while today he was largely ignored. Kinda meh about him townreading me and suddenly dropping it off when he saw I was a top lynch option, but maybe he'd keep townreading me as a pocketing attempt as wolf.

He did have a wagon earlier on day 1. BUt I had the tr on Boq mainly for the way he made/constructed his reads and especially his progression on me felt genuine when he described about the "juror" stuff. And additionally, we have mind melded quite a bit with certain reads and takes throughout the game. He def has felt pretty solvy and independent from the game similar to what you were saying when he was "largely ignored." It does feel like he was in his own bubble solving.

[arogame123]

Also Creature, before I go, if you had a legacy reads list aorn, what would it be?

[arogame123]

I don't know if SPF is a busser. In my experience with wolf!her she literally lied about wolfreading her wolf partners. Other llayers also told me she is more the powerwolfing type.

Oh interesting. I remember talking with some players in spec and what not, and they were talking about how spf is a chronic busser lol.

But I’ll keep that in mind if she powerwolfs as well

But for now, I still believe she’s one of my top towns as she’s emulated town leader energy and is attempting to bring everyone together and is hard defending their tr which I find pretty townie.

I don't recall SPF being considered a chronic busser. She always felt like the powerwolfing type and she was caught in anni mash specifically for not having any pelt and lying about it.

Yea, I remember that lol...

She def came off more as pockety for sure tho is what I realized from that game as well.

[Alison]

I feel like he's more of everybody's consensus townread for solving and I kinda agreed with it. I was just concerned about arogame123 deepwolfing like Twice who got cleared easily last game.

I was asking you about your reasons to townread arogame, so "he's everybody's consensus townread" is kinda a deflection.

[Creature]

Also Creature, before I go, if you had a legacy reads list aorn, what would it be?

I don't feel good about a lot of my reads so I don't really have a readslist aorn. I can prob take a list of all living players and give my quick take on each of them, but gonna take me a while.

[Alison]

I don't know if SPF is a busser. In my experience with wolf!her she literally lied about wolfreading her wolf partners. Other llayers also told me she is more the powerwolfing type.

Oh interesting. I remember talking with some players in spec and what not, and they were talking about how spf is a chronic busser lol.

But I’ll keep that in mind if she powerwolfs as well

But for now, I still believe she’s one of my top towns as she’s emulated town leader energy and is attempting to bring everyone together and is hard defending their tr which I find pretty townie.

I don't recall SPF being considered a chronic busser. She always felt like the powerwolfing type and she was caught in anni mash specifically for not having any pelt and lying about it.

Yea, I remember that lol...

She def came off more as pockety for sure tho is what I realized from that game as well.

SPF has bussed heavily in every wolf game I remember her in and I believe Mac has expressed the same view of her in the past. She feels pressure to produce red flips because she knows she will be policied if she does not. It's not out of her range to powerwolf, but I don't think she's doing that here (given she has been hard defending me) and if she is mafia I suspect she is bussing Creature more than anything.

[Creature]

I don't know where I stand on Boq and NANOOK. I thought NANOOK voting falcon to prevent a tie yesterday was pretty towny (although it'll prob sound suspicious if Alison flips wolf, but not by much considering he initially was trying to lynch Alison). Boq I keep getting paranoid of him because I kinda think he played a bit differently in Halvosen Ridge, but idk if I want to keep pressing here.

What were some of the differences you noticed between Boq here and Boq there?

I remember Boq was being townread in Halvosen Ridge for seemingly unpartnered/lone and I feel like his posts were more solving-oriented there. In contrast I feel like Boq was more defensive hsre, but maybe it was because he was pushed earlier. Anyway, I still wonder if Boq was wagoned D1 because players were onto something, while today he was largely ignored. Kinda meh about him townreading me and suddenly dropping it off when he saw I was a top lynch option, but maybe he'd keep townreading me as a pocketing attempt as wolf.

He did have a wagon earlier on day 1. BUt I had the tr on Boq mainly for the way he made/constructed his reads and especially his progression on me felt genuine when he described about the "juror" stuff. And additionally, we have mind melded quite a bit with certain reads and takes throughout the game. He def has felt pretty solvy and independent from the game similar to what you were saying when he was "largely ignored." It does feel like he was in his own bubble solving.

I feel like I'm being unfair to him. I just keep feeling he's under the radar or something and I get alarmed when I feel like a player has been largely ignored.

[Porscha]

Ok I'm working until like half an hour before eod so I'll be here for eod in mobile and I'll check in on my lunch in a few hours

[Creature]

I feel like he's more of everybody's consensus townread for solving and I kinda agreed with it. I was just concerned about arogame123 deepwolfing like Twice who got cleared easily last game.

I was asking you about your reasons to townread arogame, so "he's everybody's consensus townread" is kinda a deflection.

My reason will prob be "he's solving" and "he's engaging me in a towny way". I don't know how to better elaborate.

[Creature]

I don't know if SPF is a busser. In my experience with wolf!her she literally lied about wolfreading her wolf partners. Other llayers also told me she is more the powerwolfing type.

Oh interesting. I remember talking with some players in spec and what not, and they were talking about how spf is a chronic busser lol.

But I’ll keep that in mind if she powerwolfs as well

But for now, I still believe she’s one of my top towns as she’s emulated town leader energy and is attempting to bring everyone together and is hard defending their tr which I find pretty townie.

I don't recall SPF being considered a chronic busser. She always felt like the powerwolfing type and she was caught in anni mash specifically for not having any pelt and lying about it.

Yea, I remember that lol...

She def came off more as pockety for sure tho is what I realized from that game as well.

SPF has bussed heavily in every wolf game I remember her in and I believe Mac has expressed the same view of her in the past. She feels pressure to produce red flips because she knows she will be policied if she does not. It's not out of her range to powerwolf, but I don't think she's doing that here (given she has been hard defending me) and if she is mafia I suspect she is bussing Creature more than anything.

Dafuq it feels like we've played with SPFs from different dimensions then.

Also I feel like spf has been mostly pushing town so far.

[Creature]

Yeah sorry I don't have a good readslist aorn. I'm trying to find one wolf at a time.

If Alison flips wolf I'll prob have to reconsider a lot of my reads, mainly Mac. Although I'll prob have to make something out of SPF harddefending Alison.

If Alison flips town I'll get increasing suspicious of Mac if he lives tonight. I'd still maybe give him another listen if he pushes someone else other than me.

SPF is probably the biggest question mark here. I also suspect Neon now.

[Creature]

arogame123 and Lucy are prob my top townreads.

arogame for "he's solving" and "he's engaging me in a towny way".

Lucy because I have never seen her take a solid stance as wolf and I feel like she's a confidently wrong town.

[Boquise]

@staypositivefriend @Creature @Alison give me full reads lists in 12h-16h if i don’t see them i will ask again

Porscha, Creature, Neon, Lilypetal, SPF, Rondo are my immediate POE. I believe there is very likely at least 2 wolves in this group. If I had to make a cut from the POE it would probably be Neon.

arogame, Seanzie, Boquise are town leans.

lucy and Mac are strong townreads.

I'm not gonna explain everyone especially since I've already talked about some of these reads ad nauseam. I'll let you know if anything changes as a result of my catchup, and if you want specific elaboration on any of these, let me know.

I forgot Nanook here. He's a town lean mostly for sniping me at the last second. If he was scum I think he just parks on me and either gets an Alison exe over a falcon one (which, no offense to falcon, is a lot worse for town, and leads to falcon dying D2 anyway), or if town fucks up enough an accountability-free tied vote. Both are worse outcomes than a falcon exe and he voluntarily switched when he didn't have to.

"Switching when you dont have to" is a play I have used a lot as scum just to make people make this read, so I would not clear anyone for it tbh

[Creature]

Lilypetal is another player I'm kind of questioning too. This is roughly my progression on her this game:

Spoiler: show

hello i thought this started tomorrow oops

SILVERKEITH GOD

so true

i rolled town again luckily so i can have a relaxing stress free mafia experience

mafia team is nanook / lucy / seanzie thank me in post game

hewwo aro!

I'm here to meme.

wanna be 4th and 5th wolves together?

what is multi tabbing

Lilypetal had the worst impression for me so far. Like staypositivefriend pointed out these posts all feel like trying to blend in and the hype behind these posts feel fake a lot like I ended up faking hype in the last mash by posting a lot of gifs.

aww creatue beat me to it lol

Initiative

mafia team is nanook / lucy / seanzie thank me in post game

this post in particular felt a bit out of place and like the type of post i would make as a nervous wolf who felt pressured to join in on the meme posting but idk if i actually believe this

i've been making posts like this every game sadly

Also yeah this post sucks ass

It feels like typical wolf response for a push they deem wrong reasons

seems like the first v creature i have ever seen

lucy v i think and just taking a diff approach at the game

i liked spf/aro

still think mac is v from rvs alone but we'll have to see lmao

Why do you think those folks are v (aside from Mac since you have already said why)

iirc i've only played vs w!creature and this creature is going about day 1 completely differently and seems to be like trying? so i just easily v read that

lucy's whole thing in every game I've played with her is that she doesnt make reads day 1 for some reason but it seems like she's dropping that and playing properly and I think you start doing that in a V game because it would only be a boon for wolfing

spf and aro just have good vibes that remind me of them towning, it's not like a proper read just like a very very slight lean

i'd say rn i'm confident in Creature/Lucy Town

aro/spf/mac TL

this post actives my fight or flight instincts

activates*

i think it's because: i've perceived lucy in the past as someone who is usually timid/reluctant about giving confident reads, especially early in the game, and also i find the gamestate right now kind of inscrutable and am finding it difficult to get many reads that i feel good about, and lucy forming so many reads effortlessly for shifty reasons makes me worry she's playing from a position of TMI and doesn't actually need to scumhunt

idk if Lilypetal having that many reads means much for her alignment. My main issue with her is that her posts feel forced and unnatural.

I still can see Lilypetal being wolf. They felt pretty stiffy/frozen/awkward/scared-at-posting whenever I saw them posting. Does anyone townread Lilypetal here?

yeah like tbh porscha is probably a wolf here i don't think her sidestepping my @'s for reads/talking to me are like super AI but her general play is incredibly stilted and I think she may just be a wolf here. Gonna park my vote there until she does something. Sorry porscha

[VOTE: Porscha] aubergine

Why are you so apologetic here?

Mac only has 7 posts left. Who will defend me from all the meanie butts when you are gone Mac.

I'll defend you neon. all you had to say was ur doing a different playstyle lol and it makes sense

it just came off like u didnt care but i will pay more attention and I'm sorry for slightly doubting you

This feels pockety.

I wonder if I'm confbiasing Lilypetal wolf because of her playstyle because posts like this feel a lot performative.

This is the most towny I have seen Lilypetal be this game regardless of Porscha's alignment.

Now that Alison wagon is something: a bunch of players I would vote + Lilypetal.

[VOTE: porscha] aubergine

I feel like wolf!Lilypetal would be aware switching votes at EOD would be pretty outing for her which makes me believe she would never do this as wolf considering her position was good at the time of this vote. I think this most derives from a town who panicked at falcon45ca leaving a towny post when it was already too late.

Actually Neon's switch looks kinda weird considering before Lilypetal's switch to Porscha the wagons were 8-6 and Neon's switch would put it to 7-7.

Lilypetal's switch to a vanity wagon is so outrageously bad I doubt it ever comes from wolf.

Actually Neon's switch looks kinda weird considering before Lilypetal's switch to Porscha the wagons were 8-6 and Neon's switch would put it to 7-7.

Lilypetal's switch to a vanity wagon is so outrageously bad I doubt it ever comes from wolf.

No?

TWTBW isn't a thing. Lilypetal's switch seemed to have been motivated more by a desire to avoid being on a town wagon than a genuine belief that it would improve the gamestate or lead to a better EOD flip.

Switching to a vanity wagon and risking a tie which is pretty antitown is objectively worse than staying oj a mislynch wagon. I just can't make it wolf!Lilypetal, who was like pretty safe at the end of the day, would suddenly make that vote switch that is objectively antitown and potentially outing for her, unless she had a stroke or something.

We should prob focus on building a good towncore and narrow down the POE a little. I feel like we're too over the place.

My firm townreads last night were arogame123, Lilypetal, lucy and Neon.

I'm asking you all what do you make out of Lilypetal's and Neon's wagon movements yesterday which pretty much risked a nolynch. I thought Lilypetal switching to a vanity wagon was TWTBW and also I feel like she panicked when falcon45ca posted like a dying town EOD. Neon is roughly the same but I think she comes off as more robotic to me.

arogame123 really had some pretty solvy posts at some points. I only wonder if he is deeping here.

lucy I townread mostly for repeatedly posting the VC at yesterday's EOD. It just felt like something lucy wouldn't bother doing as wolf.

Lilypetal's play here feels bizarre from a wolf perspective. Though sometimes I still get bothered that I'm noy used to Lilypetal playing like this. I wonder if it's Syndicate's behavior altering elixir in action.

If I am lynched always kill Alison/Mac/SPF roughly this order. There should have 1-2 wolves here. If they're all town we deserve to lose because that would mean the strong player trinity all misplayed hard.

I guess I still read Lilypetal and Lucy as misplaying town. Lilypetal brings me some concern because I kinda didn't like her entrance and I'm seeing some things uncharacteristic to what I'm used of town!her but meh.

Which do you find more compelling? Her being town or her being wolf?

[Alison]

I think Boquise and Rondo's catchups have both been townie. I worry about Rondo slightly because my instinct is that he'd actually play trollier as town than scum but I think it's a good sign that he has largely coalesced onto many of the same suspicions I have. Boq is just being the same independently solving self that got him killed in SCI and his pushes (eg. his vote on Lilypetal) feel more driven by curiosity than agenda. I think Creature's shade on Boq as slipping under the radar is pretty bad when Boq's push on Lily and brief kerfluffle with Neon show a lack of desire to avoid attention.

[Boquise]

i am sitting here, eating chips, drinking a cold one, and musing about how mac, alison and spf dances around each other but seemingly ends up town reading each other
it is kinda cute tbh

[Boquise]

maybe alison isnt town reading spf per se, but everything feels so toothless and wholesome tbh

[Boquise]

[VOTE: NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME] aubergine
come play

[Alison]

It is clear you people cannot solve the game or move on without seeing my flip so let's just do that today. I will admit I was a bit hesitant at the start of today because Jack is an odd kill for Porscha to make and I didn't really want to allow chain Alison -> Porscha misexes if that was the case. I don't care any more though, I'm more of a liability at this point given that so many people are stuck without knowing I'm town + Porscha is probably scum regardless. (Also I cannot be allowed to endgame under any circumstances, it's a free win for mafia if I do.)

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine

My legacy POE is given. If you put a gun to my head and told me to give an exact team solve, I'd say Porscha/Creature/SPF. Creature is right, 3 "POE'd" slots doesn't kill Jack over SPF or Mac. Mac is town ergo SPF is in the team and killed Jack because he was the only one sussing her. It would explain why a Porscha team would kill Jack, and I think it neatly explains everything that went on D1.

Or perhaps you dont want to leave more spew/antispew. At this point I believe the votes were actually more on creature than you so this is an interesting post as I dont see Alison as the giving up type. :think:

It was like 3 votes on me 1 vote on Creature at that point I made this post and there was a strong sentiment that my flip would help the town information wise. I have suicided many times as town if I think it will help the game (as SPF pointed out earlier).

I am kinda interested with the way Creature's wagon has risen because he is one of my top suspects. I do still feel kinda obligated to follow correct play but it's hard to really object to people wanting to kill someone I think is a likely wolf over me. At any rate I definitely think Creature counterwagon to me is correct because it creates a lot of good wagonomics if he is wolf.

[Alison]

maybe alison isnt town reading spf per se, but everything feels so toothless and wholesome tbh

I actually strongly suspect SPF but also strongly suspect that I will be gone one way or another before the time is right to resolve her. So it is kinda awkward for me. I have tried to make my suspicions clear in my legacy so people don't just clear her, especially the part where I think it is entirely possible for her to be bussing Creature.

[Alison]

Full disclosure that today is actually a very busy day for me because I have both school and an event I have to attend that will stretch through EOD. I will try to check my phone if I get a break during the event but it is entirely possible that I will miss EOD itself.

[Alison]

@Creature What's your read of Porscha?

@arogame123 What's your read of Creature?

[Boquise]

So I am taking this kill as a direct attack on me lol.

So I suspect that the mafia are going to either try to push me hard today or at the very least they are trying to undermine me.

@Creature can you articulate why you are suspicious of me?

It feels like your push on falcon45ca was pure OMGUS which feels a lot more like your typical wolfgame of reacting violently against your pushers. I also was kinda counting that you would be nightkilled last night if you were town. tbh I can kinda see wolf!Alison deciding not to kill you, but if Alison is town wolves could easily just nightkill you when your reads were shit. This is why I believe there's at least one wolf within you and Alison. Also this is a thought I already had before the night ended that I would've probably dropped if you died last night.

You think my Falcon push was pure OMGUS?

So despite you having your own clear reasons for suspecting Falcon, you on two separate points tried to pre-empt me being guilty for the impending Falcon townflip.

Why are we wagoning Falcon over Porscha? Does anyone have a summary/case?

Ask Mac. He seems to be townreading Porscha too.

Whatever let's hope Mac is right (or bussing)

[VOTE: falcon45ca] aubergine

You're so fucking sus. You have your own reasons for sussing Falcon but you just keep pushing this like I'm solely responsible for it in the most calculated ways. I already told you I'm conflicted on him two separate times.

And now you come out today, again, pushing as though you had nothing to do with Falcon going over.

Also I can see why Jack is dead.

What happened with the Jack wagon? Do you all read Jack as town now?

I'm between Falcon and Porscha ftr. Could also do Jack.

Mac why didnt this end with a vote on creature? [Mac+Creature equity]

i think this makes rondo and mac not wolves together for flimsy reasons. Mainly, Mac voted Creature 1 minute before and I think that vote has a lot of build-up to it. Thus, if mac is a wolf that vote would have been telegraphed in wolf chat. Rondo would have no business posting this tbh

Weak reason but i take what i get tbh

[Boquise]

maybe alison isnt town reading spf per se, but everything feels so toothless and wholesome tbh

I actually strongly suspect SPF but also strongly suspect that I will be gone one way or another before the time is right to resolve her. So it is kinda awkward for me. I have tried to make my suspicions clear in my legacy so people don't just clear her, especially the part where I think it is entirely possible for her to be bussing Creature.

yeah, like if you are town i completely believe your read here.
However, lets say we have a scum team of you/mac/spf. Then this would be a dance that keeps on going.

However as I wrote this, I realised that this team has no clear misyeet target after Creature tbh, considering you and Mac have opposite views of Porscha and the thread is town reading her tbh

so scrap that tbh

[Boquise]

If I am lynched always kill Alison/Mac/SPF roughly this order. There should have 1-2 wolves here. If they're all town we deserve to lose because that would mean the strong player trinity all misplayed hard.

I guess I still read Lilypetal and Lucy as misplaying town. Lilypetal brings me some concern because I kinda didn't like her entrance and I'm seeing some things uncharacteristic to what I'm used of town!her but meh.

i hate this post
especially because it goes 24h before eod

yah it feels a bit like anti-spew, not sure why creature is already throwing in the towel and planning for his death when alison is literally still the leading wagon

why wasnt i wolfy when i did this on d1 tbh

[Boquise]

Did Boq do anything useful today? I feel like he has been defensive all game and I haven't seen any input from him today when it most matters.

lmao

[Boquise]

creature voting me here is a wolfclaim and if he holds it to the EOD he should be assumed to just be in anti-spew

will answer the other posts directed at me in a bit

Sorry I'm too busy bussing you and Porscha and everybody seems to have caught us three so sorry tram we can try better next time.

okay this is wolfy tbh

[Alison]

It is funny to see everyone slowly coalesce on "Creature scum" around that time in their catchup

[Boquise]

If I am wrong on creature I am going to look so bad

I don't think you're the wolf pushing me.

the wolf pushing you

The wolfteam is prob gonna be something like arogame123 + Boquise + Neon but I doubt we ever win.

i have not pushed you at all in this game

[Boquise]

there should be a Balkans mafia where the flavor is just names of the Balkan countries

then mafia is just Turkey, Ottoman Empire, and the Byzantine Empire

serbia should be secret wolf tbh

[Boquise]

Also, I think it's time to take a leap of faith and do a BUSSY!

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

Boq, I know you said this was a good idea in wolf chat, but I don't think I'll actually get a lot of towncred for this. I'm trusting your judgement though.

[Boquise]

also idk if seanzie/creature are teamed anymore after this page lol

can @Seanzie explain what made him change on his creature?

Me claiming to bussy Creature is IMO not good evidence that me/creature aren't aligned, but whatever.

I've been mostly townreading Creature due to a very stark difference between his play here vs when him and I wolved in Reanimators together. This is only a single datum though, so my confidence in that townread is shakable, and I am worried that my "let's go after the bigguns and find the wolf in there, then move on" style of pushing people like Mac/Alison/Boq isn't leading me in the right direction, and probably isn't a good idea when I don't have the time to dedicate to actually hunting in that group. So, instead I'm thinking about giving this whole "sheep"ing thing a try, which is highly against my natural instincts (I am neither a leader or a follower), but, here we are.

"guys stop town reading me for stupid reasons jfc tbh"

[Boquise]

Anyways the thing I was trying to do

Alison (6): Neon, Porscha, Falcon, Seanzie, Jack, Rondo

Falcon (7): Creature, Aro, Alison, Mac, Lucy, SPF, Nanook

Porscha (2): Boq, Lily

Reads:

Alison (6): Neon, Porscha, Falcon, Seanzie, Jack, Rondo

Falcon (7): Creature, Aro, Alison, Mac, Lucy, SPF, Nanook

Porscha (2): Boq, Lily

Thoughts...if TVT 1 of Boq Lily is almost 100% woof IMHO out of those I'm on Boq

PoE: Boq

Rondo and Seanzie actually feel mostly townie to me as of this day but what's the actual likelihood Alison's wagon is just pure? I dunno. Maybe 2 woofs stacked on Falcon by why not try to get Alison over as I've been repeatedly told she's a strong player.

Creature just feels outed

PoE: Creature, Boq

I kinda don't like Aro at all today and Nanook has felt off this entire game to me but I've never really felt Nanook was easy to read

PoE: Creature, Aro, Boq, Nanook

I dunno if I assumed woofs put 1 on each wagon I'd probably lean Seanzie, Creature, Boq... I'm kind of just leaning town on Alison harder and harder. I suck at mafia.

Anyways somewhere in the yellow are my woofs.

Did I fall into the poe after being declared towncore solely for my Lily vote? Lmao.

It was for the reason I stated.

I dunno what you want me to say. If Alison is town your a woof candidate in my pov.

*shrugs*

there was no reason stated tbh
i have now read the majority of the game and i have not seen one
earlier today i was in your second last tier list and now i am suddenly in your bottom poe tbh

[Boquise]

maybe some players in this game just scum read peeps because they dislike them tbh

[Boquise]

Sure I'm not saying don't vote off wagon. Hell I'm voting off wagon. That's not why it's bad.

I don't solve in consensus with others. But I think a vote can be bad irregardless of intent outside it.

But maybe it's semantics I'd prefer we not clog the thread.

In wolf equity though I have this to say. I suck at Werewolf but I'm better than that.

Why is it bad then, if off wagon is not bad?
I don't think we are clogging the thread. The thread is almost silent and this conversation might make people get reads out of us too tbh! That's pro town.

Thats not a very good defence ngl tbh

I mean I've stated why. But you disagree so I'm trying to drop it. I also just think my feelings are probably invalid and developed because of the places I grew up playing. I'm not used to playing in hammerless mountainous games.

I grew up almost exclusively playing like Role Madness hammer on with stupidly insane mechanics where voting someone who was widely TRd could just accidentally end up killing them for various reasons in some of those games so I've always played with the rule that you should vote someone who you SR but isn't outside thread state PoE

If that makes sense. I started playing in a very weird mafia environment and it's why "Neon makes no sense and plays weird" is something I hear a lot. Along with being killed early in every new place I play and flipping town and people telling me I need to change how I play.

Even within my home site I played weird but it stood out less there.

I am confused. You said that it was bad because it was a vanity wagon - as in an off-wagon tbh.
Dropping a discussion feels rather bad, are you not interested in trying to understand my pov tbh?

I also did not realise that Lily was "widely TR'd". That doesnt really match with my thoughts tbh

Regarding, "Neon makes no sense and plays weird", thats not really why I began scum leaning you in a hypothetical.. Rather the opposite tbh

It's not so much that it's a single vote off wagon is that it's a single vote off wagon on a wagon that will never exist *shrugs* at least Porscha existed yesterday but you ended there when it didn't exist which is really kind of a waste no?

I don't want to continue this conversation because it's going nowhere

I'm not saying you are saying that I'm saying it will inevitably end up somewhere like that when I flip town.

I am not going to let you get away with bad gotchas that are just unfair. I voted Porscha when she was an actual wagon. The day ends at 2 am my time. D1 ended on a work day. This is a bad faith argument tbh.

[Boquise]

I don't know where I stand on Boq and NANOOK. I thought NANOOK voting falcon to prevent a tie yesterday was pretty towny (although it'll prob sound suspicious if Alison flips wolf, but not by much considering he initially was trying to lynch Alison). Boq I keep getting paranoid of him because I kinda think he played a bit differently in Halvosen Ridge, but idk if I want to keep pressing here.

What were some of the differences you noticed between Boq here and Boq there?

I remember Boq was being townread in Halvosen Ridge for seemingly unpartnered/lone and I feel like his posts were more solving-oriented there. In contrast I feel like Boq was more defensive hsre, but maybe it was because he was pushed earlier. Anyway, I still wonder if Boq was wagoned D1 because players were onto something, while today he was largely ignored. Kinda meh about him townreading me and suddenly dropping it off when he saw I was a top lynch option, but maybe he'd keep townreading me as a pocketing attempt as wolf.

at the point this post was made, i had not even shaded you afaik tbh

[Boquise]

I don't know where I stand on Boq and NANOOK. I thought NANOOK voting falcon to prevent a tie yesterday was pretty towny (although it'll prob sound suspicious if Alison flips wolf, but not by much considering he initially was trying to lynch Alison). Boq I keep getting paranoid of him because I kinda think he played a bit differently in Halvosen Ridge, but idk if I want to keep pressing here.

What were some of the differences you noticed between Boq here and Boq there?

I remember Boq was being townread in Halvosen Ridge for seemingly unpartnered/lone and I feel like his posts were more solving-oriented there. In contrast I feel like Boq was more defensive hsre, but maybe it was because he was pushed earlier. Anyway, I still wonder if Boq was wagoned D1 because players were onto something, while today he was largely ignored. Kinda meh about him townreading me and suddenly dropping it off when he saw I was a top lynch option, but maybe he'd keep townreading me as a pocketing attempt as wolf.

He did have a wagon earlier on day 1. BUt I had the tr on Boq mainly for the way he made/constructed his reads and especially his progression on me felt genuine when he described about the "juror" stuff. And additionally, we have mind melded quite a bit with certain reads and takes throughout the game. He def has felt pretty solvy and independent from the game similar to what you were saying when he was "largely ignored." It does feel like he was in his own bubble solving.

I feel like I'm being unfair to him. I just keep feeling he's under the radar or something and I get alarmed when I feel like a player has been largely ignored.

yeh you kinda are tbh considering all i have done since d1 is independent solving tbh

[Boquise]

alright i am caught up and will play ball
[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

will discuss stuff in my next post

[arogame123]

@Creature What's your read of Porscha?

@arogame123 What's your read of Creature?

Currently scum reading Creature for the way he came into today around your slot in a hedgy manner and also the way he seemed to be flailing around somewhat and throwing votes on who I believe are town.

[arogame123]

But, also, I do realize that a lot of people have had the same conclusion now on Creature and have jumped on him (me included somewhat), so if Creature is mafia, he is most certainly getting bussed somewhere.

The one thing though, is Creature has really been antagonizing everyone, and I am curious for those who have played with Creature before. When he is mafia, does he just go into this state of throwing whatever sticks and start shading everyone in the thread or being less confident on his reads?

[arogame123]

maybe some players in this game just scum read peeps because they dislike them tbh

Honestly mood. I definitely feel like a lot of people here are not empathizing or calibrating enough with one's playstyle and are just sr them on what they view as "objectively" scummy without actually hearing out from the player. I do get the sense that a lot of people's sr on someone tend to derive from a playstyle reason and are not looking past it. I have def felt a different vibe here from MU and the style of which people are playing or what they view as "optimal" so it is def a bit of an adjustment tbh.

[Boquise]

I was and am worried when reading this day that creature and alison are both town. It felt like we were all set on a yeet order of Alison > Creature, and it is very bad for town to have two monotonous days like that, bad for morale and so on.

At first I town read both but accepted that I would have to play ball with the thread consensus. Neither Alison or Creature seem to be likely to make a Jack kill (though Alison did make a post that made me step back from that thought). Furthermore, Alison has not really done anything scummy and Creature has played mostly from what I am used of him as town. Hence my conundrum. Yeeting outside of them now after the thread has become static is pretty bad though considering D3 will just be a repeat of D2.

Anyway so I did my own poking and thinking whilst thinking on who of them I will place my vote on. I was first going to vote Alison solely to resolve D1 wagons. But I have then decided on Creature because he has made at least some posts I find to be wolfy, and some posts look like wolfy salt. And like, if both are town... I would have to be forced to look at people like Spf, and I happen to town read Spf. So. Yeah.


The player I think is the wolfiest though is Neon.
Neon reacted strongly when I dared to vote Lily.
I have also noted that both Lily and Neon make empty-ish reads and defends players in similar situations as them. Such in, both clamouring that Porscha is town etc.
I think Lily has done some townie posts though.

What has pinged me is that both of them write about how bad they are at mafia, but then we have a post like this from Neon:

In wolf equity though I have this to say. I suck at Werewolf but I'm better than that.

Like, the need to defend one's wolf game is often viewed as a townie thing, but this vibe feels like Neon is slighted by my comment. Especially since what I accused her of isnt really a bad scum move.

The progression on me is non-existant. I get punished for not following the status quo and Neon does not want to engage tbh. Neon also lacks the same entitlement as Porscha tbh.

There is a possibility that both Lily and Neon are town who just so happen to be saying the almost same thing and play in the same manner, I have seen that before in other players, but it could just as well be a pocket tbh. I have been "yelled at"/"criticised" by scum when shading their pocket target before tbh


Today I will play ball and be a team player. I'm not very accurate with scum reads and I trust those who are better than me tbh. Just wanted this to be said in case I get NK'd tonight tbh.
But if I am alive tomorrow I will go rogue tbh.


also
Rondo is doing some solve, it is noticed. I still refuse to make a read of him tbh
Nanook is exist too but due to the stagnant day, he has not received ample pressure. I hope we can play D3 without a set in stone agenda between two players solidified right at sod tbh.

If Alison/Creature are v/v, then the only thing that has mattered for scum today is withhold the status quo. It also means they had it chill on D1 too.
I didnt see any sense of urgency during eod1, so I guess that could make Alison spewed town?


I think
Aro, spf, Lucy, Porscha, Seanzie are town
Mac, Lily, Alison - town leans
Rondo, Nanook - Null
Creature - scum lean? Idk Could as well be a town lean but ergh.
Neon - scum lean

So unless the team is exactly between like Neon/Creature/Rondo/Nanook (picking my four lowest reads), I am wrong in my towns tbh.

[arogame123]

Hmmm, Boq and I mindmelding once again with our POE and reads, makes me feel a bit better.

Though I think you have Alison a bit high for a town lean.

I remember you were leaning Alison a bit over Creature before the catch up and had Creature lower afterwards.

What posts did you find townie from Alison when catching up? Or was it just you found people that were scummier than her?

[Alison]

So unless the team is exactly between like Neon/Creature/Rondo/Nanook (picking my four lowest reads), I am wrong in my towns tbh.

I don't think any combination of those names kills Jack which means you probably are misclearing a town and it is probably SPF.

[arogame123]

Also, I wish there was a way to view the vote counts from day 1 at specific timeslots, but who were the votes on you Boq that are still alive from day 1?

[Lilypetal]

hey hey hey

im caught up

is rondo regarded as a good player? their catchup posts seemed super towny and I'm beginning to really dislike the idea that they were floated around in the "we should kill" group day 1 and early day 2 cuz now I'm beginning to think that may have been opportunistic scum trying to remove a good player. I need to go back and check but I don't even remember who suggested it lol

[Alison]

hey hey hey

im caught up

is rondo regarded as a good player? their catchup posts seemed super towny and I'm beginning to really dislike the idea that they were floated around in the "we should kill" group day 1 and early day 2 cuz now I'm beginning to think that may have been opportunistic scum trying to remove a good player. I need to go back and check but I don't even remember who suggested it lol

He is a very trolly and chaotic player who often seems to care more about making the game a clown fiesta than winning. This is not an insult; I suspect Rondo himself would happily agree with that characterization. In his rare moments of seriousness, he can play very well, as in Halvorsen Ridge, where he pocketed both Mac and Boq as mafia.

[Boquise]

Hmmm, Boq and I mindmelding once again with our POE and reads, makes me feel a bit better.

Though I think you have Alison a bit high for a town lean.

I remember you were leaning Alison a bit over Creature before the catch up and had Creature lower afterwards.

What posts did you find townie from Alison when catching up? Or was it just you found people that were scummier than her?

i am basically feeling forced to vote either of them because I dont want D3 to be a waste.
Alison has not written something i find to be immediate townie, and not something I find immediate scummy (except that one post that paused me). It is just that Creature made some posts that I found blatantly wolfy.

Whaddya mean having Alison high for a town lean? I only have 1 town lean category tbh. Idk how else I would organise it

So like, we are at a point where the thread leaders have decided it is always between Creature/Alison today. I am against this thread state but it is what it is and I am picking the lesser poison and hoping I am just wrong with the feeling I had tbh

[Lilypetal]

boq still super town and I think his point abt neon rly struck a chord with me because I'm not sure why she got so defensive over him poking at me.

if i wanted to do like a crazy but to me sensible solve i'd say neon/spf/creature, if creature is not a hit i would say aro