King of the Hill Mafia

[Porscha]

[VOTE: neon] aubergine

fuck doing the right thing

yeah isn't that how you voted creature yesterday? womp womp...

[Porscha]

Also @staypositivefriend , how were you town reading Alison for her read/progression on you?

Like I even pointed out that the way Alison was reading you as mafia was very weird esp in the world where you are town. Since Alison was sr you, despite how you were agreeing with her pov of creature being mafia and were defending her. It is very odd to me that you kind of dismissed that from Alison as her read on you did not feel organic in any way tbh.

Also, not only were some of Alison's reasonings for reads not good, she has also pushed on Jack (died town), pushed creature (died town), and from your perspective SPF, Alison has been pushing you as well.

So from your POV SPF, Alison has pushed on 3 town, so even if you want to give her the benefit of the doubt with "pelts," that argument also fails. So I am wondering why you were defending Alison yesterday and if you still believe she is town today despite this?

okay i can give a longer response to this now

i guess my question for you is: why should i scumread alison for reading me as mafia? why is it not OK for me to townread her because she's scumreading me? i care much more about whether her read is coming from an authentic place and whether it makes strategic sense than whether or not the read is "correct". i think alison's progression on me makes sense from an alison!town POV, which is why i don't find it wolfy that she has pushed on me even though the reasoning behind her push is honestly kind of horrible

it's true that alison has pushed on mainly town so far, and it's also true that i think the best way to read alison is by her results, so i think the fact that we are on d3 and she hasn't provided us with any pelts yet is the most compelling argument for her being a wolf. even so, the fact that she's been in such a precarious and bizarre position makes me feel like she would be less likely to successfully find the mafia in a world where she's town, and if i was in her shoes as a villager i imagine it would be difficult to correctly analyze the gamestate. so, i think her inaccuracy in this game is slightly less concerning to me when i take into consideration the bizarre context that the game is in

Wow, this is rich coming from you tbh, you’re giving Alison the benefit of the doubt for being in a “wrong gamestate” and when creature was in a similar position, you piled on him like there was no tomorrow?? WhTs that about?


Also, it’s not the “objective” read itself, it’s the progression and the way she came to the read that she believes you are mafia bc of the Jack NK despite how you were treating her. Like, she just mafia read u mainly off that and that she’s afraid she’s on your side in a pocket way?

lmfao what the fuck even is this post? my reasoning for townreading alison and my reasoning for pushing on creature were so fundementally different that it's absurd to draw a comparison between the two. creature spent over 24 hours throwing a fit in the thread and making a ton of posts that were so incoherent that they came off like anti-spew, and generally seemed like they were ready to leave the game at a point when they could have easily survived

i'm not placing the blame on creature because ultimately, it's my responsibility for reading him incorrectly, but his play or positioning in the thread wasn't even similar to the way that alison was playing

also idk what the last paragraph means either, alison's read on me was mostly based on NKA but it's not unusual for alison to heavily favor NKA when she's town and it isn't inherently woly for her

I’ll try to say this nice as possible spf, all these big words are too much for me right now, but I’ll say is, my point is that rn, Alison is in the same place as creature was, which was the whole thread is piling and wanting to kill then. Which is what you are ignoring from my previous point.

And my point is, like how many chances are you giving Alison? It seems like screw up after screw up you’re giving Alison a “pass” and are pissed off that this game seems like an “inside joke” that you can’t fit into. Idek wtf that means tbh.

I’ve explained how Alison purely pushed or had a sr on u for NK, but despite how you treated her or approached her slot, she believed that you were still mafia and even partnered to creature?!? Like how tf does that make sense and why would u think that’s townie from Alison? Like some of her treatment of her reads, you included, doesn’t seem townie tbh.

You even talked about Nenom, and I pointed out some weird progressions from both their slots that seem very odd and partnery.

And in addition to those reads and progressions, I still showed you that Alison doesn’t have any pelts either. Wrong on three alignments from your POV. So what about Alison is so townie to you that I don’t see?

And you know what spf, you are sticking from the outside, cause clearly throughout this whole game, we have had differing perspectives and tend to agree on very little and that makes me shake my head left and right like I am rn in this drunk state.

but the fact remains that creature and alison played in a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WAY even if they were in a similar position in a thread, which is why i find it frustrating that you're trying to act like it's hypocritical for me to townread alison while pushing on creature. just because they were in a similar position doesnt mean that they didn't play differently or that their reactions to being pressured/pushed weren't fundamentally diffferent

and tbh? im giving alison more than once chance, because she thought falcon was town on d1 and was forced to vote for him for self-preservation purposes, and similarily only voted for creature once it became necessary for her to survive. alison has led none of the misleiminations so far and has pushed a worldview that is separate from both of the eliminations, which is why it's ridiclous for u to act like i should be scumreading her from her "results" when the results haven't even been her choice! if she was leading the game then maybe u would have a point but she hasn't been

idk how to respond to the rest of this post because youre just saying that alison "doesnt seem townie" but that's just word salad. you have failed to explain why alison pushing on me is wolf-indicative for her. you have failed to explain why alison being pressured into voting falcon/creature is wolf-indicative for her. your reasoning is so fucking shallow that it's actually driving me insane and im frustrated by your tone in this post tbh

Ah, but she seriously voted for herself yesterday in an act of solidarity with "correct" gameplay.
And then she bothered self preserving. Maybe she made an explanation why, maybe I'm forgetting. But I have no recollection of why she did this unless of course, it wasn't that serious of a vote since she wouldn't bother sticking to her guns.
If we are to evaluate Alison on Alison standards, as should probably be done, I believe I had the most correct of gamestate thoughts:
if it is between alison vs creature
or alison vs porscha
Alison is the only constant. I also believe Alison should have recognized this, and Mac threw by confbiasing himself into falcon and creature when both of them were well within their town ranges. SPF, I saw you mention Alison has not been leading the game or leading mislynches and therefore her votes cannot be her fault. But have you considered she hasn't HAD to lead the game or lead lynches when the town has been ML'ing town? Why is this seem outside of possibility when you discuss Alison?

[Porscha]

@staypositivefriend do you think these posts from aro are just wrong or wolf indicative?

if im being totally honest he feels more like an aggressively incorrect villager to me than someone with a nefarious wolf agenda but im annoyed so i want him to be mafia lol

sick hedge

[Porscha]

Alison can be the chop but we are not going to spend 48 hours just doing the same old pushes again. It is bad for the game state, it is lazy, it is anti-town. Yesterday sucked because we only had two options through the whole day

yeah

i think part of my frustration with this gamestate, regardless of alison's alignment, is that it feels like 90% of the game is part of an inside joke that they won't let me in on

in spite of everything that's happened, it's still not even clear to me why people scumread alison throughout d1. what did she do that was wolf-indicative? why was she wolftelling? mac is the one who came the closest to giving a legitimate answer but i've seen basically zero reasoning from anyone that wasn't him. and again, why was alison one of the main wagons on d2? why does everyone agree that she needs to be killed today? what did she do???

it's seriously exasperating for everyone to be tunneled on alison without having a single clue how they got to her being a wolf or what she has done that is scum indicative - it feels like the game is stuck in this self-fulfilling prophesy of "alison needs to be chopped because she's been in contention for so long" but it's abundantly unclear what led to her being in contention in the first place

i just don't get it i guess

she just became a wagon because she suggested a poe of inactive/lower posting players and they retaliated by voting her and it just stuck ig

Poe unite

is this a joke about you in general or in this game

there is a right and wrong answer btw

[Porscha]

hello wilgz

did wolf chat welcome u yet?

Yes, but Marmot just keeps making clicking sounds in there it's weird.

I'm finding that my slot is wolf read by afew, I've made it through my own ISO as of two pages and see nothing but fluff, so as it stands I can understand so far.

Lily, care to give me a precise description of why you don't believe my slots wolf reads?

Right now wisest thing is to trust my own legacy and [VOTE: aro] aubergine, until I have more data.

there's just an entire lack of substance in your slot and whenever prodded the responses weren't to solve but to get defensive which didn't help. pushing imo a pro wolf agenda in mindlessly elimming alison also wasn't a good look. Idk why aro was even being wolf read tbh

So you believe Alison to be T?

Or is Alison just unalienable with my slot?

atm I'm at alison V

Why?

And what do you think of the 3 votes on them?

basically alison and creature were in a we have to kill both of them day 2 and day 3 scenario and the votes are because of that. alison was day 1 CW and most players want her resolved. unsure abt the specific votes on her rn because of that nature, I was personally voting her earlier just out of not wanting to misplay

I think she's v for a lot of small reasons. I think her play is a bit different from the spec chat game that just ended and I liked different interactions she had throughout the game. Specifically her handling of my slot on day 2 felt super towny to me and is why I'm currently town reading her.

have you considered that you may be a penny in alison's pocket ma'am

[Porscha]

Yes, but Marmot just keeps making clicking sounds in there it's weird.

I'm finding that my slot is wolf read by afew, I've made it through my own ISO as of two pages and see nothing but fluff, so as it stands I can understand so far.

Lily, care to give me a precise description of why you don't believe my slots wolf reads?

Right now wisest thing is to trust my own legacy and [VOTE: aro] aubergine, until I have more data.

there's just an entire lack of substance in your slot and whenever prodded the responses weren't to solve but to get defensive which didn't help. pushing imo a pro wolf agenda in mindlessly elimming alison also wasn't a good look. Idk why aro was even being wolf read tbh

So you believe Alison to be T?

Or is Alison just unalienable with my slot?

atm I'm at alison V

Why?

And what do you think of the 3 votes on them?

basically alison and creature were in a we have to kill both of them day 2 and day 3 scenario and the votes are because of that. alison was day 1 CW and most players want her resolved. unsure abt the specific votes on her rn because of that nature, I was personally voting her earlier just out of not wanting to misplay

I think she's v for a lot of small reasons. I think her play is a bit different from the spec chat game that just ended and I liked different interactions she had throughout the game. Specifically her handling of my slot on day 2 felt super towny to me and is why I'm currently town reading her.

I'll keep an eye out for it then.

Was Creature Alison a dif check proposed by someone or Alison's own Policy?

idk who first proposed it. maybe mac cuz he was just absolutely inting on some of his reads as I think he was the one to first propose creature over alison push even tho day 1 he said if he got nk'd and we didn't policy alison that he would blacklist all the town players. poggers switch up there zz

[Porscha]

boq/lily/Alison/aro/spf poe

starting to get scared that youre wolfsiding and that i cleared you too easily because this is a pretty awful POE tbh

well she doesn't have tmi like you do, so you gotta take it with a grain of salt.

[Porscha]

I'm like, half wanting to keep isoing half want to sleep.

I've been up for 24 hours and drove 15 of those so there's a good argument for trying again in the morning.

Thoughts as of now:
need to examine Alison.

need to examine Aro.

Lily's been helpful with my entry, pro town, but I do have qualm with the post I quoted where Lily states that Neon's point was flawed.

I've seen Boq pointed out as scum by both Max and Lucy and they are voting me. Doesn't bode well in that slot for those reasons but I should iso.

Nook row locking me always puts me on edge. I was close to getting them last time but chickened out, unknown if I get to any conclusion without supplementing my data.

Time to sleep.

I don't think I defend nook's slot right now either and usually I have to by like day 1. day 3 and here I am nook I think is slanking even harder than usual and I haven't had to defend him as town once. something is off here

[Porscha]

@Neon You seem convinced that there is a wolf in the people who have pushed you but that I specifically am wrong town. Why?

Because people who push me for my approach to the game day 1 especially when I'm more relaxed and memey than normal are almost always town and almost always think they have some amazing solve on me when in fact I'm just being myself.

They give woofs an easy wagon to jump on and put pressure on because like okay someone else started it the reasons look good enough at a base level and it's easy to jump off if needed or to hand wave when I flip town.

Your not the first you won't be the last and it happens in almost every game with people I've never played with before when I'm at my most natural self. Lately I've been kinda not being me and trying to emulate the games of the really good players I respect but I'm shit at it so now I'm in this weird juxtaposition where people who have specced me lately expect me to be like I was in champs or since than and people who know me from before expect me to be goofy anime meme girl when in truth I don't even know who I am anymore so I kinda decided to try to be old me again... cause that's when I had fun in mafia and was like actually kinda good at it.

Anyways point is. You created a wagon that's easy for woofs to use to get a misexe if I don't change my play or to get off of if I do without much suspicion. I don't think a woof starts the wagon I do think at least one jumps on it as it gains traction though.

i see that makes a ton of sense then

Like Mac is right about there being info to be gleaned from me if you look past the base level. I'm answering questions and giving reads.

Lily, what was your error with this one? I'm confused about this not making sense?

The way I read this argument is "I'm an easy yeet, here's the explanation of my meta, I don't think wolf Alison starts my wagon." Seems pretty clear cut to me. It's a meta based argument with background information to create an argument.

i'm entirely confused on what you mean

your response to neon of "i see that makes a ton of sense then" comes off as sarcastic, especially considering you took a pretty strong stance against most of neon's posts containing no tangible explanation, when this post does in fact show tangible explanation. but maybe this was the 1 post exception where you were sincerely saying you understood. Clarify?

[Porscha]

Alison can be the chop but we are not going to spend 48 hours just doing the same old pushes again. It is bad for the game state, it is lazy, it is anti-town. Yesterday sucked because we only had two options through the whole day

yeah

i think part of my frustration with this gamestate, regardless of alison's alignment, is that it feels like 90% of the game is part of an inside joke that they won't let me in on

in spite of everything that's happened, it's still not even clear to me why people scumread alison throughout d1. what did she do that was wolf-indicative? why was she wolftelling? mac is the one who came the closest to giving a legitimate answer but i've seen basically zero reasoning from anyone that wasn't him. and again, why was alison one of the main wagons on d2? why does everyone agree that she needs to be killed today? what did she do???

it's seriously exasperating for everyone to be tunneled on alison without having a single clue how they got to her being a wolf or what she has done that is scum indicative - it feels like the game is stuck in this self-fulfilling prophesy of "alison needs to be chopped because she's been in contention for so long" but it's abundantly unclear what led to her being in contention in the first place

i just don't get it i guess

must be rough being in the minority of the game eh :/

I agree mac made the best argument. if you believe that alison is town and that the alison wagon was not pure, then you should know at least part of why she was wagon'd - to take advantage of a strong town player ML day 1 for wolves.
Alison was wagon day 2 because of the counterwagon needs to flip conversation. not sure how you missed that or why you even asked it. i'll assume it's because you're drunk, I guess.

Being in contention can get townie players ML'd for the sake of flipping and the information it brings. Because if alison were to flip wolf today, for example, you would potentially be reading her day 1 wagon differently, wouldn't you? You'd be going back and looking for coasting players / votes on her slot. why are you asking these kinds of questions? Even if you are against policy yeeting, you have to understand the answers to your questions are readily, dare I say EXTREMELY, available to you.

She missed it cause she's mafia lol

that's what i was trying to imply with my pink quote but I forgot to add the word "informed" so now it's just kinda vague

[Porscha]

im kind of baffled by you describing alison and creature as being in "similar positions" when the way they approached the day yesterday couldnt relaly have been more different

They both are in similar positions as the whole thread are after them. Idk why that wouldn’t be a similar position.

ok well maybe they were in a similar position in the sense that both of them were being scumread by the rest of the thread but the way they approached d2 and interacted w/the people around them could not have been more different, which is why it's absurd that ur trying to draw a comparison between them to discredit my tr on alison

in general your read on alison really bothers me and is probably the biggest concern that i have about ur rn - it feels like ur trying to push a world where she is mafia more than u actually have a good rwason to believe that she s mafia. can u explain like im 5 why alison is mafia fypov?

can I ask you if you ever see a world where alison and creature are both being strongly pressured (creature referred to numerously as "outted wolf" - not a pressure put onto alison in nearly the same way whatsoever) and creature reacts more like alison and alison acts more like creature? they both reacted how they would always react... I'm not sober but I guess what i'm trying to say is that how they reacted to their individual pressures was NAI for both of them. I don't think you should look at the question of "from a similar starting point, how do these players react differently affects my reads on them" because... Creature replied in his own towny way. It's why I wouldn't agree that he was an outted wolf. Under the pressure Creature was under, including STRONG mac tunnel, that is how town Creature replies.
Town alison would never react how Creature reacted, because Alison would never act like that under any circumstances. Do you believe that Alison's response to her pushes, which I would argue (besides the mac argument) that Alison has actually been under quite a bit less scrutiny than Creature was. Why would Alison play any different than she always does, which is a cool-under-pressure town player, and a pretty cool-under-pressure player who you have admitted you aren't very good at reading?

I don't get why you can't just take the hints and agree to doubt yourself more. It's like you're intentionally clinging to the idea that Alison has to be town. Open up your view... I feel you are actively trying to look at it subjectively (like a smaller version of confbias) rather than a more neutral and therefore more objective mindset.

sorry I read this again adn I keep rambling. succinctly:
I believe it would have been more prudent of you to read the player's responses as whether NAI or AI for them individually if we are giving them similar starting points. Creature would never have acted like Alison under that pressure, and vice versa, so you should not be comparing their responses to *each other*, but to themselves in town worlds, to see if it matches.

Honestly, you didn't have to join the creature wagon if you didn't think he was mafia just to avoid putting your vote on alison. mac just enabled you to do it without looking suspicious.

[Boquise]

The fact that Seanzie is alive and Mac is dead is also something that doesn't happen in the world I am scum.

This just isn't true. 1.) didn't talk about you at all D2 aside from extremely early, 2.) Mac is Mac, and 3.) if I died last night, the chances of people wanting heads in (Alison/Mac/Boq/SPF) would have skyrocketed. If I'm right, at least two wolves are in that group above, so killing me would have been suicide.

1 is the precise reason why killing you yesterday would be the best time to do it. I don't joke around with my kills when I am scum tbh.

[Boquise]

The fact that Seanzie is alive and Mac is dead is also something that doesn't happen in the world I am scum.

Like... the more I think about this... the more this is just so wrong it kind of has to be outing coming from a Boq-level player.

It is the correct play tbh and this is an argument I have done as town previously when my tunnellers are kept alive tbh.

I kill those who suspect me when they seem to lose momentum of me.

[Boquise]

"Boq level player"
Thinks you catch me by overhyping a strategy that is completely nai and hasn't even been used in the game by me, if we look at the yeets

[Boquise]

I'm like, half wanting to keep isoing half want to sleep.

I've been up for 24 hours and drove 15 of those so there's a good argument for trying again in the morning.

Thoughts as of now:
need to examine Alison.

need to examine Aro.

Lily's been helpful with my entry, pro town, but I do have qualm with the post I quoted where Lily states that Neon's point was flawed.

I've seen Boq pointed out as scum by both Max and Lucy and they are voting me. Doesn't bode well in that slot for those reasons but I should iso.

Nook row locking me always puts me on edge. I was close to getting them last time but chickened out, unknown if I get to any conclusion without supplementing my data.

Time to sleep.

Is there some sort of meta here that "pushing me" = "scum"?

[Boquise]

Alison can be the chop but we are not going to spend 48 hours just doing the same old pushes again. It is bad for the game state, it is lazy, it is anti-town. Yesterday sucked because we only had two options through the whole day

yeah

i think part of my frustration with this gamestate, regardless of alison's alignment, is that it feels like 90% of the game is part of an inside joke that they won't let me in on

in spite of everything that's happened, it's still not even clear to me why people scumread alison throughout d1. what did she do that was wolf-indicative? why was she wolftelling? mac is the one who came the closest to giving a legitimate answer but i've seen basically zero reasoning from anyone that wasn't him. and again, why was alison one of the main wagons on d2? why does everyone agree that she needs to be killed today? what did she do???

it's seriously exasperating for everyone to be tunneled on alison without having a single clue how they got to her being a wolf or what she has done that is scum indicative - it feels like the game is stuck in this self-fulfilling prophesy of "alison needs to be chopped because she's been in contention for so long" but it's abundantly unclear what led to her being in contention in the first place

i just don't get it i guess

The same goes for the pushes on me
I don't get it

Maybe I should focus on irl and do some Nanook posts or something tbh

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Alison can be the chop but we are not going to spend 48 hours just doing the same old pushes again. It is bad for the game state, it is lazy, it is anti-town. Yesterday sucked because we only had two options through the whole day

yeah

i think part of my frustration with this gamestate, regardless of alison's alignment, is that it feels like 90% of the game is part of an inside joke that they won't let me in on

in spite of everything that's happened, it's still not even clear to me why people scumread alison throughout d1. what did she do that was wolf-indicative? why was she wolftelling? mac is the one who came the closest to giving a legitimate answer but i've seen basically zero reasoning from anyone that wasn't him. and again, why was alison one of the main wagons on d2? why does everyone agree that she needs to be killed today? what did she do???

it's seriously exasperating for everyone to be tunneled on alison without having a single clue how they got to her being a wolf or what she has done that is scum indicative - it feels like the game is stuck in this self-fulfilling prophesy of "alison needs to be chopped because she's been in contention for so long" but it's abundantly unclear what led to her being in contention in the first place

i just don't get it i guess

she just became a wagon because she suggested a poe of inactive/lower posting players and they retaliated by voting her and it just stuck ig

Poe unite

is this a joke about you in general or in this game

there is a right and wrong answer btw

Yes

[Boquise]

The fact that Seanzie is alive and Mac is dead is also something that doesn't happen in the world I am scum.

this seems like a bad argument. are you really telling me that if you were a wolf you would kill one of the people who was the most aggressively hard tunneled on you and who would make you look awful?

Yep
He stopped talking much about me during D2, just made some jokes, and it could be in line with the Jack kill as in being "weird". It would also make it easier for me to exist tbh

Players who scum reads me need to go when I am scum sooner than later, since I would want Seanzie to die long before lylo. My scum win rate isn't like 80% on sheer luck tbh

[Boquise]

I had a pause on Neon when I began thinking what she had to gain to over-defend Lily so I am willing to look over all my reads today

I feel more motivated to work tho

[Boquise]

So mafia are in the people who didn't care whether Creature or I went over yesterday. Porscha continues to be a candidate for that. Seanzie is another.

you only bring up my name when I was the only one still gave creature any value of not being "an outted wolf" which is more than virtually anyone else gave him. so I'd disagree my name should be brought up before anyone else's. unless you would like to push the TMI idea as I would have called it. what do you think of everyone else who literally did nothing except agree creature was outted wolf when he was well within his town range?

This is false. Both Seanzie and I stated that Creature was in his town meta.

So Alison is incorrect in putting Seanzie there too

[Boquise]

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine
Gonna just lazily vote Alison and come back in 12 hours to make a random post then dip tbh

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

The fact that Seanzie is alive and Mac is dead is also something that doesn't happen in the world I am scum.

this seems like a bad argument. are you really telling me that if you were a wolf you would kill one of the people who was the most aggressively hard tunneled on you and who would make you look awful?

Yep
He stopped talking much about me during D2, just made some jokes, and it could be in line with the Jack kill as in being "weird". It would also make it easier for me to exist tbh

Players who scum reads me need to go when I am scum sooner than later, since I would want Seanzie to die long before lylo. My scum win rate isn't like 80% on sheer luck tbh

There are three mafia

[Boquise]

The fact that Seanzie is alive and Mac is dead is also something that doesn't happen in the world I am scum.

this seems like a bad argument. are you really telling me that if you were a wolf you would kill one of the people who was the most aggressively hard tunneled on you and who would make you look awful?

Yep
He stopped talking much about me during D2, just made some jokes, and it could be in line with the Jack kill as in being "weird". It would also make it easier for me to exist tbh

Players who scum reads me need to go when I am scum sooner than later, since I would want Seanzie to die long before lylo. My scum win rate isn't like 80% on sheer luck tbh

There are three mafia

Did you check scum chat first before writing this tbh? :wowee:

[Boquise]

you have a point tho nanook
it is too early to clear you for the mac kill tbh

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

If im being honest I usually shouldn't be cleared for nk decisions in games im not visibly high efforting in while multiple mafia are alive

Of course I'll use that to my advantage sometimes too, but yeah, I generally tend to defer to partners if im not super invested in the outcome

I realize not everyone is that way/a lot of people get more invested in games than I do, but yeah, generally don't really believe in "Player X would never make that kill!" When there are three mafia alive lol

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

That being said I would never allow mac to be nked and anything to the contrary is blasphemy

[Seanzie]

Okay, I'm caught up. See y'all tomorrow.

[DrWilgy]

Spoiler: show

I'm like, half wanting to keep isoing half want to sleep.

I've been up for 24 hours and drove 15 of those so there's a good argument for trying again in the morning.

Thoughts as of now:
need to examine Alison.

need to examine Aro.

Lily's been helpful with my entry, pro town, but I do have qualm with the post I quoted where Lily states that Neon's point was flawed.

I've seen Boq pointed out as scum by both Max and Lucy and they are voting me. Doesn't bode well in that slot for those reasons but I should iso.

Nook row locking me always puts me on edge. I was close to getting them last time but chickened out, unknown if I get to any conclusion without supplementing my data.

Time to sleep.

I'm like 7 for my last 8 with confident reads on you I think, across both alignments.

Tbf im wildly overstating my confidence level and if im wrong I absolutely will not count it

I can understand the confidence, that isn't the matter, as you've shown as town to have a very good read on me. It is me wondering how do *I* tell if this one is based on TMI or not that I haven't quite figured out yet.

[DrWilgy]

there's just an entire lack of substance in your slot and whenever prodded the responses weren't to solve but to get defensive which didn't help. pushing imo a pro wolf agenda in mindlessly elimming alison also wasn't a good look. Idk why aro was even being wolf read tbh

So you believe Alison to be T?

Or is Alison just unalienable with my slot?

atm I'm at alison V

Why?

And what do you think of the 3 votes on them?

basically alison and creature were in a we have to kill both of them day 2 and day 3 scenario and the votes are because of that. alison was day 1 CW and most players want her resolved. unsure abt the specific votes on her rn because of that nature, I was personally voting her earlier just out of not wanting to misplay

I think she's v for a lot of small reasons. I think her play is a bit different from the spec chat game that just ended and I liked different interactions she had throughout the game. Specifically her handling of my slot on day 2 felt super towny to me and is why I'm currently town reading her.

I'll keep an eye out for it then.

Was Creature Alison a dif check proposed by someone or Alison's own Policy?

idk who first proposed it. maybe mac cuz he was just absolutely inting on some of his reads as I think he was the one to first propose creature over alison push even tho day 1 he said if he got nk'd and we didn't policy alison that he would blacklist all the town players. poggers switch up there zz

Perfect. I'll go through Mac then.

[DrWilgy]

@Neon You seem convinced that there is a wolf in the people who have pushed you but that I specifically am wrong town. Why?

Because people who push me for my approach to the game day 1 especially when I'm more relaxed and memey than normal are almost always town and almost always think they have some amazing solve on me when in fact I'm just being myself.

They give woofs an easy wagon to jump on and put pressure on because like okay someone else started it the reasons look good enough at a base level and it's easy to jump off if needed or to hand wave when I flip town.

Your not the first you won't be the last and it happens in almost every game with people I've never played with before when I'm at my most natural self. Lately I've been kinda not being me and trying to emulate the games of the really good players I respect but I'm shit at it so now I'm in this weird juxtaposition where people who have specced me lately expect me to be like I was in champs or since than and people who know me from before expect me to be goofy anime meme girl when in truth I don't even know who I am anymore so I kinda decided to try to be old me again... cause that's when I had fun in mafia and was like actually kinda good at it.

Anyways point is. You created a wagon that's easy for woofs to use to get a misexe if I don't change my play or to get off of if I do without much suspicion. I don't think a woof starts the wagon I do think at least one jumps on it as it gains traction though.

i see that makes a ton of sense then

Like Mac is right about there being info to be gleaned from me if you look past the base level. I'm answering questions and giving reads.

Lily, what was your error with this one? I'm confused about this not making sense?

The way I read this argument is "I'm an easy yeet, here's the explanation of my meta, I don't think wolf Alison starts my wagon." Seems pretty clear cut to me. It's a meta based argument with background information to create an argument.

i'm entirely confused on what you mean

your response to neon of "i see that makes a ton of sense then" comes off as sarcastic, especially considering you took a pretty strong stance against most of neon's posts containing no tangible explanation, when this post does in fact show tangible explanation. but maybe this was the 1 post exception where you were sincerely saying you understood. Clarify?

This is well stated and reflects my concern.

[DrWilgy]

I've seen Boq pointed out as scum by both Max and Lucy and they are voting me. Doesn't bode well in that slot for those reasons but I should iso.

Time to sleep.

Is there some sort of meta here that "pushing me" = "scum"?

I don't think I should have to explain perceived value and weight.

I get here, I see you are voting a member of town. A member of town who is dead had you as a wolf d1 (Mac quote I saw in Neon's iso). Lucy who says you are part of PoE.

So that's 2 town points to you being w and one null point to you being w that I've observed.

Now you have had Lily and Porscha both show and say Lucy's PoE is bad, effectively removing the null since my observation, but there's still 1.5 weight of you as W from my limited data.

Tel me why is this data wrong?

[Boquise]

I've seen Boq pointed out as scum by both Max and Lucy and they are voting me. Doesn't bode well in that slot for those reasons but I should iso.

Time to sleep.

Is there some sort of meta here that "pushing me" = "scum"?

I don't think I should have to explain perceived value and weight.

I get here, I see you are voting a member of town. A member of town who is dead had you as a wolf d1 (Mac quote I saw in Neon's iso). Lucy who says you are part of PoE.

So that's 2 town points to you being w and one null point to you being w that I've observed.

Now you have had Lily and Porscha both show and say Lucy's PoE is bad, effectively removing the null since my observation, but there's still 1.5 weight of you as W from my limited data.

Tel me why is this data wrong?

it has been the running theme in this game that "pushing me" = "you are scum" so I am just asking. It feels like I have become collateral damage in some internal politics of this site with the bourgeoisie vs the proletariat. You also used "voting me" as a reason to scum read me.

Falcon had an incorrect read of me. If I was last night's NK, does that mean that you'd magically be a wolf? A dead D1 town's reads are not gospels of truth nor should it be sheeped for merely existing. It should be examined and see if it holds any value. I also had zero to do with Falcon's atrocious yeet.

Lucy has been town reading me the whole game. I do not understand her process, but I assume it is based on paranoia that I am in the POE.
So the Lucy part of your data is pretty wrong and shallow.
----------------------------------------



Anyway, I have decided to stop trying in this game. It will just tilt me. Just gonna write my reads.

I have decided that the Neon slot (DrWilgy) is probably town due to Neon's defence when i was asleep + it doesnt make much sense for a wolf to protect Lily in such a strong manner unless they are both w/w ig tbh

If Alison is town then the game state got fucked sod2 or even mid D1. So I hope she is scum. I will be the auto yeet D4 regardless. And I am tired of trying to create content and move the game towards a less closed game state. Maybe town will be able to re-evaluate in the F7 tbh.

[DrWilgy]

I'm still going through my own ISO and I don't understand lol.

Opinions on Boq and Seanzie are just there with no semblance of reason.

I'm sitting here shouting "Y tho" to a force that won't respond, but I know at least believed what they said at some point.

The one read that I think I understand is Alison and that's NAI in my opinion so... :Meh:

[Boquise]

speaking from experience, the players who has the "you push me you are scum" reaction usually act like that when town.

Since town is destroying itself, it means that scum should be in the group of players who just chill in the thread and don't really care.
Nanook/Rondo/Lucy.
I dont think thats a perfect poe however.

[RondoDimBuckle]

speaking from experience, the players who has the "you push me you are scum" reaction usually act like that when town.

Since town is destroying itself, it means that scum should be in the group of players who just chill in the thread and don't really care.
Nanook/Rondo/Lucy.
I dont think thats a perfect poe however.

Hahaha

[DrWilgy]

Idk who moved at literally the last second after I swapped to avoid a tie but I hate you we could've killed alison instead

hopefully that wasnt me if so sorry i moved off falcon like 1 min or so before but i announced it in thread

I moved onto Alison at exactly 1 minute to EoD

nvm, Neon is chaos.

[DrWilgy]

So, I've finished reading and trying my best to glean anything from my legacy, but I find it to be mostly unfruitful besides providing me some weight value.

Neon in Looking for town was unable to trim their PoE. I'd like to think that is due to not understanding the Alison wagonomics in spite of having a tl on Alison, but that's only my best guess as it seems she desired data on Alison regardless of that tl. I can see the wisdom in this course in light of what occurred with HK last game FROM Neon's point of view.

In not being able to trim the PoE, Lily, Aro and Boq became the PoE.

Imma flip through Mac/Jack ISOs next.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Spoiler: show

I'm like, half wanting to keep isoing half want to sleep.

I've been up for 24 hours and drove 15 of those so there's a good argument for trying again in the morning.

Thoughts as of now:
need to examine Alison.

need to examine Aro.

Lily's been helpful with my entry, pro town, but I do have qualm with the post I quoted where Lily states that Neon's point was flawed.

I've seen Boq pointed out as scum by both Max and Lucy and they are voting me. Doesn't bode well in that slot for those reasons but I should iso.

Nook row locking me always puts me on edge. I was close to getting them last time but chickened out, unknown if I get to any conclusion without supplementing my data.

Time to sleep.

I'm like 7 for my last 8 with confident reads on you I think, across both alignments.

Tbf im wildly overstating my confidence level and if im wrong I absolutely will not count it

I can understand the confidence, that isn't the matter, as you've shown as town to have a very good read on me. It is me wondering how do *I* tell if this one is based on TMI or not that I haven't quite figured out yet.

Good luck

[DrWilgy]

Just staring at the polls abit, I see a thing in a Lily, Alison, Boq team.

If Alison were to flip town, I think we are in trouble.

I don't know if I agree with having Alison in f7 based on wagon and neon wisdom.

Must read the slot eventually.

[DrWilgy]

Fascinatingly, Porscha is the only consistent Alison voter.

Nook Aro and Lucy joined d2.

Seanzie Rondo dropped d2.

You five, why did you either join the wagon or leave it? @Seanzie and @RondoDimBuckle your answers here I think are the most important. Why did y'all not vote Alison d2?

[Seanzie]

Fascinatingly, Porscha is the only consistent Alison voter.

Nook Aro and Lucy joined d2.

Seanzie Rondo dropped d2.

You five, why did you either join the wagon or leave it? @Seanzie and @RondoDimBuckle your answers here I think are the most important. Why did y'all not vote Alison d2?

I lost faith in my creature!town read when enough people who were more invested in the game than me were all pushing for a creature elim, so I ended up on Creature, partially in order to make sure there weren't any last minute shenanigans.

Prior to that, I was moving my vote around more to see how people react and to see how I feel in this place or that. Close to EoD, Alison was technically a CW but it was pretty clear she wasn't going over.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Fascinatingly, Porscha is the only consistent Alison voter.

Nook Aro and Lucy joined d2.

Seanzie Rondo dropped d2.

You five, why did you either join the wagon or leave it? @Seanzie and @RondoDimBuckle your answers here I think are the most important. Why did y'all not vote Alison d2?

I was there d1, only swapped a minute before eod to avoid any potential tie. I did not see neon had swapped to alison before the poll closed.

[Boquise]

DrWilgy being solvy is slowly reviving my desire to play tbh

[Porscha]

Alison can be the chop but we are not going to spend 48 hours just doing the same old pushes again. It is bad for the game state, it is lazy, it is anti-town. Yesterday sucked because we only had two options through the whole day

yeah

i think part of my frustration with this gamestate, regardless of alison's alignment, is that it feels like 90% of the game is part of an inside joke that they won't let me in on

in spite of everything that's happened, it's still not even clear to me why people scumread alison throughout d1. what did she do that was wolf-indicative? why was she wolftelling? mac is the one who came the closest to giving a legitimate answer but i've seen basically zero reasoning from anyone that wasn't him. and again, why was alison one of the main wagons on d2? why does everyone agree that she needs to be killed today? what did she do???

it's seriously exasperating for everyone to be tunneled on alison without having a single clue how they got to her being a wolf or what she has done that is scum indicative - it feels like the game is stuck in this self-fulfilling prophesy of "alison needs to be chopped because she's been in contention for so long" but it's abundantly unclear what led to her being in contention in the first place

i just don't get it i guess

she just became a wagon because she suggested a poe of inactive/lower posting players and they retaliated by voting her and it just stuck ig

Poe unite

is this a joke about you in general or in this game

there is a right and wrong answer btw

Yes

One day... one day I will stop falling into your traps

[Alison]

I am back. Catching up.

[Alison]

I am back. Catching up.

Cancel this, I got midway in and have to attend to a friend who needs help. I'll be back in a few hours to resume.

[Porscha]

I've seen Boq pointed out as scum by both Max and Lucy and they are voting me. Doesn't bode well in that slot for those reasons but I should iso.

Time to sleep.

Is there some sort of meta here that "pushing me" = "scum"?

I don't think I should have to explain perceived value and weight.

I get here, I see you are voting a member of town. A member of town who is dead had you as a wolf d1 (Mac quote I saw in Neon's iso). Lucy who says you are part of PoE.

So that's 2 town points to you being w and one null point to you being w that I've observed.

Now you have had Lily and Porscha both show and say Lucy's PoE is bad, effectively removing the null since my observation, but there's still 1.5 weight of you as W from my limited data.

Tel me why is this data wrong?

Quick aside that it was lily and spf, not me who responded to lucy that way

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Alison can be the chop but we are not going to spend 48 hours just doing the same old pushes again. It is bad for the game state, it is lazy, it is anti-town. Yesterday sucked because we only had two options through the whole day

yeah

i think part of my frustration with this gamestate, regardless of alison's alignment, is that it feels like 90% of the game is part of an inside joke that they won't let me in on

in spite of everything that's happened, it's still not even clear to me why people scumread alison throughout d1. what did she do that was wolf-indicative? why was she wolftelling? mac is the one who came the closest to giving a legitimate answer but i've seen basically zero reasoning from anyone that wasn't him. and again, why was alison one of the main wagons on d2? why does everyone agree that she needs to be killed today? what did she do???

it's seriously exasperating for everyone to be tunneled on alison without having a single clue how they got to her being a wolf or what she has done that is scum indicative - it feels like the game is stuck in this self-fulfilling prophesy of "alison needs to be chopped because she's been in contention for so long" but it's abundantly unclear what led to her being in contention in the first place

i just don't get it i guess

she just became a wagon because she suggested a poe of inactive/lower posting players and they retaliated by voting her and it just stuck ig

Poe unite

is this a joke about you in general or in this game

there is a right and wrong answer btw

Yes

One day... one day I will stop falling into your traps

That may be, but it will certainly not be this day!

[DrWilgy]

I've seen Boq pointed out as scum by both Max and Lucy and they are voting me. Doesn't bode well in that slot for those reasons but I should iso.

Time to sleep.

Is there some sort of meta here that "pushing me" = "scum"?

I don't think I should have to explain perceived value and weight.

I get here, I see you are voting a member of town. A member of town who is dead had you as a wolf d1 (Mac quote I saw in Neon's iso). Lucy who says you are part of PoE.

So that's 2 town points to you being w and one null point to you being w that I've observed.

Now you have had Lily and Porscha both show and say Lucy's PoE is bad, effectively removing the null since my observation, but there's still 1.5 weight of you as W from my limited data.

Tel me why is this data wrong?

Quick aside that it was lily and spf, not me who responded to lucy that way

Apologies. 2am hazies hit hard.

[DrWilgy]

Fascinatingly, Porscha is the only consistent Alison voter.

Nook Aro and Lucy joined d2.

Seanzie Rondo dropped d2.

You five, why did you either join the wagon or leave it? @Seanzie and @RondoDimBuckle your answers here I think are the most important. Why did y'all not vote Alison d2?

I lost faith in my creature!town read when enough people who were more invested in the game than me were all pushing for a creature elim, so I ended up on Creature, partially in order to make sure there weren't any last minute shenanigans.

Prior to that, I was moving my vote around more to see how people react and to see how I feel in this place or that. Close to EoD, Alison was technically a CW but it was pretty clear she wasn't going over.

What reactions did you gleam Seanzie? I don't have the opportunity to absorb everything, so a clear and concise all in one review would be helpful.