The Syndicate

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:20 am**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:17 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:15 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:08 am I voted.

Give me reads on every player not named Kyle or Epignosis.

GTH reads at this very moment:

Dave/Daisy 2.0 - Town
DrWilgy - Town
Dyslexicon - Scum
Epignosis - Scum
FZ. - Town
JaggedJimmyJay - Town
Kylemii - Town
Long Con - Town
LoRab - Scum
MacDougall - Town
Marmot - Town
novaselinenever - Scum
nutella - Scum
speedchuck - Town

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:21 am**

The more volatile the dialogue, the less willing Dizzy is to take a stance.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:22 am**

wait wtf Jay pressure-voted for Sloonei rather than immediately voting for Epi like he was supposed to? Nice try dude, that actually makes me lean back toward the Sloonei-and-Jay-are-scumbuddies side.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:24 am**

Sloonei there is no way you can justify thinking both me and Epi are bad. You're full of shit. I know I said I would side with you against Epi but you keep changing my mind. Vote's on you for now.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:25 am**

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:22 am wait wtf Jay pressure-voted for Sloonei rather than immediately voting for Epi like he was supposed to? Nice try dude, that actually makes me lean back toward the Sloonei-and-Jay-are-scumbuddies side.

I don’t care.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:25 am**

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:19 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:17 am
speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:00 am
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:56 am That is one thing you and I can agree on, but more on that when I post the coherent version of my thoughts later. First let's hear some conversation in here and it better be more than conversation about freaking Kyle or people just saying Epi is a foregone conclusion. That's just about as lame as my lynch was. Even if he is lynched, don't sit there and twiddle your thumbs and say, aren't we all just voting Epi?
Since you've had a 24-hour period of just being able to ruminate without posting, I have a request of you. I'm going to put some pairings below. Make the assumption, in each pairing, that one is scum and one is not. Then tell me which one you'd shoot.

Epi vs Jay
Epi vs Sloonei
Dizzy vs FZ
LoRab vs Marmot

Feel free to throw one out if you have no thoughts on it, or throw another pair in.
Epi
Epi
Dizzy
LoRab
y tho

I'd have picked FZ and Marmot for sure (well Lorab vs Marmot is less sure but. guise dizzy is fosho town yo)

tell me about those two picks

Dizzy vs. FZ was a gut check. I got some mild honest vibes from FZ earlier, but it's not something I could really articulate, or something I'd hold onto. I'm still not sure why you're so sure about Dizzy.
LoRab's got 8 posts and I think more than half of them have an apology for being out of the thread. I always feel bad for bringing things like this up, but I prefer it to keeping my thoughts concealed when they could be helpful. To be clear, I fully believe her when she says she has reasons not to be here. But seeing that sort of thing in the thread always strikes me as potentially being a scum player seeking to avoid heavy scrutiny. Or a townie who doesn't want to appear like they're neglecting the game. I also felt like Marmot was sincere last night.

why is Dizzy fo sho town?

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:26 am**

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:24 am Sloonei there is no way you can justify thinking both me and Epi are bad. You're full of shit. I know I said I would side with you against Epi but you keep changing my mind. Vote's on you for now.

... why?
Honestly your treatment of me is the only reason I suspect you. I've sensed zero effort from you to actually read me. You just keep saying things like this to me.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:29 am**

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:20 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:17 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:15 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:08 am I voted.

Give me reads on every player not named Kyle or Epignosis.
GTH reads at this very moment:

Dave/Daisy 2.0 - Town
DrWilgy - Town
Dyslexicon - Scum
Epignosis - Scum
FZ. - Town
JaggedJimmyJay - Town
Kylemii - Town
Long Con - Town
LoRab - Scum
MacDougall - Town
Marmot - Town
novaselinenever - Scum
nutella - Scum
speedchuck - Town

Add a sentence for each of those.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:30 am**

You know you're invested in a game when you have to be up in five hours but you just can't help but answer one more post... lol

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:00 am
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:56 am That is one thing you and I can agree on, but more on that when I post the coherent version of my thoughts later. First let's hear some conversation in here and it better be more than conversation about freaking Kyle or people just saying Epi is a foregone conclusion. That's just about as lame as my lynch was. Even if he is lynched, don't sit there and twiddle your thumbs and say, aren't we all just voting Epi?
Since you've had a 24-hour period of just being able to ruminate without posting, I have a request of you. I'm going to put some pairings below. Make the assumption, in each pairing, that one is scum and one is not. Then tell me which one you'd shoot.

Epi vs Jay
Epi vs Sloonei
Dizzy vs FZ
LoRab vs Marmot

Feel free to throw one out if you have no thoughts on it, or throw another pair in.

Jay
Ugh can I say both on Epi and Sloonei? GTH, I'm going with Epi.
And these last two are harder to choose because I have so little read on one or both...
I would say FZ. Based on the fact I am reading Dyslexicon as one of four hard town reads right now
And I don't know, maybe Lorab? No real read on either of them other than Marmot seemed genuinely frustrated when he thought he was being lynched. But baddies can be frustrated too.

I have a question for [mention]MacDougall[/mention] please. Why did you talk like you wanted to stop my lynch but not put any actions behind it? You just sat with your vote on me.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:32 am**

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:09 am Actually, @everyone. GTH, say one of JJJ and sloonei are scum. Which one?

Jay

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:37 am**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:18 am Also, Daisy, I have a few disagreements with your mammoth post that I cannot adequately cover on my phone. Stand by.

Oh, I'm sure you do. I think you and I are going to have some fun in the next 24 hours. Alas, for now I must sleep.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:37 am**

Daisy's stance on me was more mild than I expected. If she was scum, she'd be able to just ride the wave on me until I get lynched without drawing too much ire. She seems to be genuinely reconsidering Daisy 1.0's read.
Drwilgy moved his vote off of me last night. Scum wilgy doesn't need to do that.
I don't remember anything Dyslexicon has said except to uestion me for asking nutella to clarify her Dizzy read. I'm responsible for reading Dizzy's posts, but it's not inspiring that, after a full Day/Night phase, I'm unaware of their contributions to this game.
I've typed paragraphs about Epignosis.
I touched upon my town read of FZ in a post a minute ago. It's not strong, but my gut points in favor of her.
JaggedJimmyJay - Campaigned passionately to save me yesterday, is trying to make me sweat today. Cool Jay things to do.
Kylemii - My own emotions last night were a perfect illustration of why townie Kyle would have acted the way he did.
Long Con - I feel like Scum Con would be more of a force in this game right now.
LoRab - Touched on previously.
MacDougall - Night work was awesome, and I liked his contributions on Day 1 before that.
Marmot - Touched on earlier. I want to go back to look at his posts to better identify where my feelings come from though.
novaseline -

3 posts, I think? And 0 things about the game discussed therein.
nutella - Refuses to give me the time of day.
Speedchuck - I feel like he has been the most stable thread presence in this game so far.

I changed my format in the middle of this list.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:39 am**

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:37 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:18 am Also, Daisy, I have a few disagreements with your mammoth post that I cannot adequately cover on my phone. Stand by.
Oh, I'm sure you do. I think you and I are going to have some fun in the next 24 hours. Alas, for now I must sleep.

Go for it. You’re wrong.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:53 am**

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:34 pm Will continue reading.

Oh, btw, when I said Kyle was a town read I hadn't actually read much of the thread at all. So that was just to be contrary and cool. Don't know it's relevant.

I don't know what to make of this post. Half of my hates it, half of me loves it.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:55 am**

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:26 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:17 pm
novaselinenever wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:15 pmI've actually posted twice and I've been following the game. It's just that there are a lot of fluffs and the rest of posts are meta-plays between players who know each other. I didn't have anything to contribute so I didn't bother to post.
Hi! What's your experience with mafia?
Do you have anything in terms of different player's alignments? Thought or feels of any kind?
I'm used to closed set-ups but this one is very interesting.
So far nothing. Pretty neutral overall

No part of me likes this post.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:58 am**

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:37 am JaggedJimmyJay - Campaigned passionately to save me yesterday, is trying to make me sweat today. Cool Jay things to do.

If it's a cool thing to do, why the eyeroll?

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:00 am**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:58 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:37 am JaggedJimmyJay - Campaigned passionately to save me yesterday, is trying to make me sweat today. Cool Jay things to do.
If it's a cool thing to do, why the eyeroll?

Because it's also a typical thing to do.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:03 am**

I wanted to look over speedchuck's ISO, because he's a mainline player right now that has sidestepped most attention. So far, not such a good look to me.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:24 pm If I may make an observation, regarding the setup:

Tevye can get BTSC with his daughters. In doing so, he can confirm them town to himself. So that's neat.

However, if he doesn't search for them, the town gains a cop in the match-maker. Match-maker can search for BTSC, which would (if Tevye doesn't submit actions) only be held by the mafia.

We trade off a BTSC-finder and a town searcher/btsc/lover thing for a cop. Does anyone think this is a good idea?

Speedchuck's first real post was a mechanics post with a twist. JJJ (? I think?) presented it as a Civ indicator - like speedchuck had a Civ mindset from which he built this idea. Looking back at speedy's ISO, I don't agree with that. I fairly commonly will start a game with a role analysis overview, with some 'questions to the public' on how to most-Civviely proceed with certain roles. I do this often as a Civ, and often enough as a baddie. I always feel some smugness when I'm Civ and get called out for it, because it validates my baddie use of it. My point is, that it's NAI, as the cool dudes say.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:20 pm Three scumreads on Kylemii, all for different reasons. If Jay is being serious. That's crazy.

And nobody in the thread is trying to defend him. Also crazy.

I put scum Kylemii at like... idk, 60% odds?

LC/Kyle not w/w.
FZ./Kyle not w/w.

"Disgusting." The effect of the first line is to focus attention MORE on Kyle, with the editorial that it's crazy that this could be happening. What does it mean to put that out there? Is it honest bewilderment, like "Wow whoa, that's so crazy wow!" or is it nudging a light agenda, like "That's maybe too crazy to be a coincidence". He puts out the "crazy" twice, and then give a scum rating that is JUST high enough to be "I'd lynch him if it came down to it, and this number would cover my ass about it" but low enough to withstand a drop below 50% and suddenly Kyle is cool, if the tides shifted even slightly. That is just bogus to me.

It's the w/w part that I really don't like. This is a fine way to buddy, if speedchuck is bad: You don't have to say the players are Civ and put yourself out there for TMI comments... you just create a situation where they're "not Mafia with..." and push a 60% Kyle-bad agenda. The bonus is that when Kyle flips Civ, LC and FZ are suddenly the "possible Wolf" side of the pair, creating a natural opening for the midgame push to those players.

Not to mention that "not w/w" has to be the darling of the baddie world... you get to give opinions without committing to reading ANYONE as Civ OR bad! Poor form.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:36 pm
FZ. wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:29 pm Speedchuck, can you explain what w/w is?
wolf/wolf
mafia/mafia

You two are probably not on a team together, is what I'm saying

linki: as for your second post, I could see FZ and LC's points on Kylemii. For a guy who probably knew that JJJ's suspicion was just pressure, he sure acted very seriously about it. But, at the same time, no teammates have influenced the thread either.

Those reasons.

" For a guy who probably knew that JJJ's suspicion was just pressure, he sure acted very seriously about it. But, at the same time, no teammates have influenced the thread either."
" For a guy who probably knew that JJJ's suspicion was just pressure, he sure acted very seriously about it. But, at the same time, no teammates have influenced the thread either."
" For a guy who probably knew that JJJ's suspicion was just pressure, he sure acted very seriously about it. But, at the same time, no teammates have influenced the thread either."

I just pasted it a couple of extra times because I actually hate this very much.

Easy adjective: wishy-washy. If that floats your boat. Doesn't always do much for me, but this is clearly a wishy-washy statement.

My problem is that this says: "You all can probably see that Kyle is bad. But here's a meaningless reason why he's not."

How early was this? Is that how you all act when you're on a baddie team? You rush to your teammate's defense on Day 0 because JJJ said some silly stuff? Balderdash! Why would you act like you assume a guy with baddie teammates would have them "rushing to his aid"? What??

I can't stop reading these sentences over and over. It just grates on me more and more every time. I have to move on.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:55 pm I still have a scumread on Kylemii. Stronger than before Jay dropped the suspicion.

If I still have it come Day 1 Start I'll tell you why.

Winky intrigue aside, if speedchuck is bad, then it behooves him to hang on to a suspicion, and to make it more his own by pointing out that Jay dropped it.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:55 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:29 am
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:28 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:19 am Jay and Kyle are highly unlikely scum partners, but I could see one or the other being scum.
... don't know if I agree with this.
which part?
First part. :P

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:47 am Non-fiction dialogue:

Anyone who really believes I would prefer to whip this thread into a frenzy for appearances than just let it snail along with nothing but theme-inspired chatter has no clue about my mafia-aligned play. No clue.
Yeah I don't trust your calls to meta. It bothers me more that you said this than the rest of your play this game.

This is all negative. Every single word is working to place suspicion on the people he's talking about.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:22 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:01 am
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:55 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:29 am
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:28 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:19 am Jay and Kyle are highly unlikely scum partners, but I could see one or the other being scum.
... don't know if I agree with this.
which part?
First part. :P
My scum read on Kyle is contingent on him being made genuinely uncomfortable bu Jay's fake scumtell on him. I can only see them as compatible partners if that was an elaborate distancing measure to kick off the game.
I don't have a meta read on Kylemii mafia. But I'm personally always more emotional and reactive as mafia. Check out Pirates. I don't see that as a factor.

More negativity, Kyle was emotional and reactive, so Speedchuck anecdotally points the finger at him again.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:17 am
Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:14 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:41 amBelieve me or don't, this entire dialogue is just WIFOM to people who aren't me.
the other stuff you've said basically amounts to sandbagging but this part is a valid point, I think
That's not a point. That's like... a disclaimer or something.

Jabbing at Kyle. Looking for more emotional reactions?

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:24 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:20 am I’m frankly fine with being mislynched if Epignosis gets hanged immediately thereafter. Sometimes that’s what it takes for anyone to critically assess that dude.
So you're saying there's practically ~0% chance you are both town? Cause if not, you've consigned us to two mislynches there. Which is more of a frustrated action than one that is seeking the best for town.

NAI, necessarily.

Just looking at this from the perspective that Speedchuck is bad and JJJ and Epi are good... everything he says is a clever thing to say. The "0% chance" reinforces the forced dichotomy that JJJ's (emotional) statements suggest. The "two mislynches" becomes "speedchuck tried to warn us" later. Then "... best for town" throws doubt on JJJ, BUT he instantly tops it off with "NAI"... so, what, that last sentence that implies JJJ doesn't really want what's best for town should be disregarded?

Spoiler: show

Jumping in to nitpick JJJ. JJJ is involved in a JJJ-Epi thing, where both of them are calling each other bad, and speedchuck comes in from the sidelines to simplify two paragraphs of JJJ's into a mirror-image, 100% hypocritical exposé.

That takes some real focus, like he wanted to make this conclusion happen, and went about doing it. Go ahead and read the two paragraphs he conflated. I can't, in any honest fashion, make speedchuck's analysis work. It's two different players, two different gaming prersonalities, two different conversations, two different situations, and one is a SELF-analysis, which brings in so much extra baggage that the comparison becomes thin-ice-fragile immediately. And yet he opens the comparison with a levered- and shimmied-in sound bite that reflects none of that.

That's all I have for this night. I hoped I'd get farther through speedchuck's ISO, but the stuff I did look at just made me write so much. I never even got back to Mortal Kombat to catch up there. Good night. I'm placing a vote on speedchuck because he looks pretty bad right now.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:09 am**

Long Con is a civilian and I am voting for speedchuck.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:13 am**

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:27 am
Spoiler: show
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:26 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:23 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:21 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:19 pm The most pressing question emerging from this then would be: Epignosis, why won't you be voting for me today?
Because you're a shitty Day 1 lynch.
Why?
Now you're just fishing for compliments.
Because if you are good, then that's an active, vocal, passionate mafia-hunter gone, one who didn't even get a real chance to catch anybody.
And if you are bad, then that's an active, vocal, passionate mafia member who will be interacting thoroughly with his teammates.

This ^ is not a baddie mind set. If Epi is bad why this?

He's done something quite similar before as a mafioso. The following post is from RED vs. BLUE, a game in which he hounded me from Day 0 onward pretty much without a break:

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:37 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:3J is my top suspect.
What else is new.

Epignosis wrote:He has projected an eagerness, which I expect, but it's empty. It's void. It looks productive, but it isn't.
True productivity on Day 0 is nearly impossible. That doesn't stop me from trying. Produce something better or kiss my ass.
I'm going to let you do your thing. If you're good, we'll end up burying the thread for nothing (except good times). If you're bad, then it's not like I can convince anybody to lynch you this early anyway. Am I correct that you've never been lynched on The Syndicate?

There's a historical precedent for a mafia Epignosis to falsely suspect me "for looking phony" while also giving me a pass from a Day 1 vote. This isn't some WIFOM guess I am putting out there.

It's happened before.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:17 am**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:09 am Long Con is a civilian and I am voting for speedchuck.

I'll stop being irritated and curt for a moment to expand:

First: I don't think a mafia Long Con is likely to be in a mind frame right now, with various other loudmouth names under greater duress, which features a thought "I think I'm going to go post a huge ass case against someone". He came out of nowhere with that thing. It looks very authentic.

Moreover, it is compelling. I am not convinced that Epignosis is mafia despite all of my night phase huffing and hubris, and in a world where he is a civilian -- speedchuck's handling of he and I is riddled with TMI. I think LC's points about how speedchuck handled Kyle are also sound. I love the case.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:19 am**

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:03 amOH my God BR has gone to bed, but I KNOW she'd be absolutely thrilled to see you bring Firefly up.

oh you mean the game in which BR broke the sacred bonds masonic trust by getting recruited to the reavers and winning with them? I remember it only vaguely, and have certainly gotten over her heartbreaking betrayal by now. I'm not still bitter about it at all.

Okay but really Firefly was one of my first really enjoyable mafia experiences, and civ btsc with BR and Seals was a huge part of it. I learned a lot in that game.

Plz tell BR I said "hello"

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:22 am**

Baseline reads as of right now:

MacDougall
DaveDaisy
Kylemii
Long Con

Sloonei
Marmot
Epignosis
nutella

DrWilgy
novaselinenever
Dyslexicon
FZ.
LoRab

speedchuck

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:28 am**

speedchuck wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:29 pm Quite a lot of low-hanging fruit in this POE.

I am of the opinion that at least one of JJJ, Epi, and Sloonei are scum. I don't know which one. Or if it's the only one. Another scum is hiding among the others that have been around, and we probably have one low poster scum. No basis for this other than how the game has gone.

I'm going to try to narrow down my three candidates on that.

Three-way false dilemma. I can understand what Sloonei said about a major player being Mafia, and the guy most often overlooked in that dialogue is one quoted above. I think it's a climactic assessment with little logical grounding, to be honest, but if there is a bad guy in the active pile then my money's on chuck.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:00 am
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:56 am That is one thing you and I can agree on, but more on that when I post the coherent version of my thoughts later. First let's hear some conversation in here and it better be more than conversation about freaking Kyle or people just saying Epi is a foregone conclusion. That's just about as lame as my lynch was. Even if he is lynched, don't sit there and twiddle your thumbs and say, aren't we all just voting Epi?
Since you've had a 24-hour period of just being able to ruminate without posting, I have a request of you. I'm going to put some pairings below. Make the assumption, in each pairing, that one is scum and one is not. Then tell me which one you'd shoot.

Epi vs Jay
Epi vs Sloonei
Dizzy vs FZ
LoRab vs Marmot

Feel free to throw one out if you have no thoughts on it, or throw another pair in.

Four more dichotomies which needn't necessarily reflect any actual scenario in this game. Names glued together because _________.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:38 am**

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:27 am Ok, I came to Sloonei’s “case” against Kyle. Here is my big beef with this whole situation. Actually you know what, I think I have a couple of them. First of all, you went through and assigned emotional motivation to his posts. That is pretty much all you did. You read through and tried to say I think this reflects such and such emotion. But even if you were right, do you really think civs don’t get indignant? Do you think they don’t find accusations against them incredulously? It was thoroughly unhelpful commentary to begin with. So right from the start I have a problem with you. Then you followed it up with these picked apart explanations, but what you fail to take into consideration is the fact that the game being referenced was a bad experience for Kyle, and one he has in the past as a civ also said, dude this is so not representative of my normal play. So anyone leveling a charge against him based on that game would have immediately gotten the emotional backlash of a bad experience. Some of your other points are self defeating too. By that I mean, you say he didn’t question why, but later you quote him literally trying to question what this accusation is based on and cite it as an example of him being bad. Kyle has in my opinion adequately explained all of his actions on Day 1. Your case was self contained and contradicted itself. I have a real problem with that. Lastly you and Long Con both picked apart how he phrased things as indicators of a slip basically. I think this is a stretch at best. Baddies are cautious in how they phrase things, civs are not. Kyle was posting from a frustrated place and trying to figure out how serious Jay actually was. You look super opportunistic here. Not a good look.

This is where I think I break away from the anti-Sloonei camp. I agree with you that his case against Kyle was not convincing. I agree with you that he wasn't receptive enough to the emotional distress a civilian experiences when being wrongly accused. I don't see why it's "opportunistic" though, or why the existence of the case itself is at face value a problem -- much less a terrible gaffe warranting an immediate lynch (this is the impression I got from Epignosis). Just as civilians have a tendency to respond emotionally as Kyle did, they also have a tendency to get stuck in tunnel vision when they feel nobody else is grasping the nature of their accusations (as with Sloonei). I don't struggle at all to believe that Sloonei really felt he was pursuing a lead worth pursuing, even if it wasn't one I agreed with, and I am honestly confused about the reception it has gotten. I don't get it. I also don't get what motive mafia Sloonei would have to make that case. I don't think it's "opportunism" -- Kyle already had opponents in the thread and was a possible lynch without that. I don't think it was "try to look like a civilian", because that accusation is just stupid if I am frank. Sloonei already looked like a civilian. Before that case he was getting barely any actual criticism. There's no imminent need to puke out a massive case in pursuit of town credit.

I think he made a case, and it was a wrong case, and one needn't look back far into the annals of Syndicate Mafia to find another similar example (RIP colonialbob).

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:43 am**

[mention]nutella[/mention]

Why were you so content to rest on the "automatically lynch Epignosis" campaign?

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:45 am**

LC's case on Speedchuck actually seems pretty plausible.

did someone make an ISO link post earlier? I will find it and use it.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:50 am**

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:57 am ISO links:
Dave
DrWilgy
Dyslexicon
Epignosis
FZ.
JaggedJimmyJay
Kylemii
Long Con
LoRab
MacDougall
Marmot
novaselinenever
nutella
Sloonei
Spacedaisy
speedchuck

And our host, DFaraday.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:51 am**

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:30 am You know you're invested in a game when you have to be up in five hours but you just can't help but answer one more post... lol

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:00 am
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:56 am That is one thing you and I can agree on, but more on that when I post the coherent version of my thoughts later. First let's hear some conversation in here and it better be more than conversation about freaking Kyle or people just saying Epi is a foregone conclusion. That's just about as lame as my lynch was. Even if he is lynched, don't sit there and twiddle your thumbs and say, aren't we all just voting Epi?
Since you've had a 24-hour period of just being able to ruminate without posting, I have a request of you. I'm going to put some pairings below. Make the assumption, in each pairing, that one is scum and one is not. Then tell me which one you'd shoot.

Epi vs Jay
Epi vs Sloonei
Dizzy vs FZ
LoRab vs Marmot

Feel free to throw one out if you have no thoughts on it, or throw another pair in.
Jay
Ugh can I say both on Epi and Sloonei? GTH, I'm going with Epi.
And these last two are harder to choose because I have so little read on one or both...
I would say FZ. Based on the fact I am reading Dyslexicon as one of four hard town reads right now
And I don't know, maybe Lorab? No real read on either of them other than Marmot seemed genuinely frustrated when he thought he was being lynched. But baddies can be frustrated too.

I have a question for @MacDougall please. Why did you talk like you wanted to stop my lynch but not put any actions behind it? You just sat with your vote on me.

My vote went onto you errantly quite a few hours before deadline. I was struggling to find a strong case on any of my group 1 or 2 players and nobody was sharing my suspicions so I decided to poke at Wilgy and Marmot who were the group 3 players I had the most analysis to go by. Marmot shifted this motion at you and I fell for it.

The heat on you started to form and alarmed me as it appeared like a mislynch. Unfortunately no compelling wagon formed imo. At EOD I had a choice to make between two players I town read and one, you, that looked like a mislynch but that I was null on. I was preparing to take a gambit and just hammer one of the others close to EOD as I thought it might be the kind of surprise move the mafia team would be unable to band to prevent and then at the last moment several votes fell on you which meant I couldn't do it. I considered moving my vote off you late just to make a point but figured I would catch heat for it. I spent the next few hours trying to scrub your blood off my hands with the interaction analysis because I felt like I failed so much at EOD.

I also am phone bound for the next 36 hours so my volume will drop.

Either this day results in a lynch of Epi or Sloonei or I want them both to stop talking about each other. If this days analysis focuses on them again and we fail to lynch one it will be a massive failure.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:57 am**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:09 am Long Con is a civilian and I am voting for speedchuck.

I don't think his post is anywhere near as good as you seem to do. It's precisely what I would expect scum Long Con to enter with on day 2 as a player who has attracted a little suspicion. Pick a player and make a wall post case for civ cred.

Furthermore... Im not sure civ Jay would be that easy to convince.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:58 am**

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:57 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:09 am Long Con is a civilian and I am voting for speedchuck.
I don't think his post is anywhere near as good as you seem to do. It's precisely what I would expect scum Long Con to enter with on day 2 as a player who has attracted a little suspicion. Pick a player and make a wall post case for civ cred.

Furthermore... Im not sure civ Jay would be that easy to convince.

Okay lovely, what do you think of the case itself?

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:00 am**

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:27 pm If i'm going to be blanketed with scum reads can you all at least do me the courtesy of including a reason? "Your tone is phony" and "you don't care about the roof" do not qualify as reasons.

It's your role that makes you scummy. Don't you understand?

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:02 am**

I see you expanded so that's a better look at least.

Linki: My brain struggled to understand his points tbh. I will try again.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:02 am**

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:44 pm To everyone else who cares about the roof:

I have Sloonei, JJJ, nutella, Lorab, FZ., probably Marmot and the ghost of Spacedaisy coming in here to lynch me tomorrow.

They can't all be bad.

When I am lynched, grill them. Don't let them make excuses. Grill them on a grill that does not contain both meat and dairy.

Much appreciated.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:03 am**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:25 am
nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:22 am wait wtf Jay pressure-voted for Sloonei rather than immediately voting for Epi like he was supposed to? Nice try dude, that actually makes me lean back toward the Sloonei-and-Jay-are-scumbuddies side.
I don’t care.

Do you think nutella is mafia?

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:04 am**

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:03 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:25 am
nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:22 am wait wtf Jay pressure-voted for Sloonei rather than immediately voting for Epi like he was supposed to? Nice try dude, that actually makes me lean back toward the Sloonei-and-Jay-are-scumbuddies side.
I don’t care.
Do you think nutella is mafia?

Light green skittle.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:05 am**

pulling myself away from the emotional mindset (heartset?) I was in during day 1, I don't actually think Sloonei's actions would have been ideal actions for a mafiosa, like at all. The mafia reaction to their mislynch candidate not getting enough traction wouldn't be too focus even more on convincing people of that. That's.... That's not what mafia does. A mafia Sloonei might have just been like "well I guess this didn't work this time, so i'll let another civ get lynched instead and wait to set up Kyle later on" I mean isn't that the ideal situation?

I really don't see how the investment of so much effort into getting me lynched, especially with such urgency, would make sense in any circumstance other than the one where Sloonei is civ and was just actually really convinced that I'm mafia.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:06 am**

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:37 am Daisy's stance on me was more mild than I expected. If she was scum, she'd be able to just ride the wave on me until I get lynched without drawing too much ire. She seems to be genuinely reconsidering Daisy 1.0's read.
Drwilgy moved his vote off of me last night. Scum wilgy doesn't need to do that.
I don't remember anything Dyslexicon has said except to uestion me for asking nutella to clarify her Dizzy read. I'm responsible for reading Dizzy's posts, but it's not inspiring that, after a full Day/Night phase, I'm unaware of their contributions to this game.
I've typed paragraphs about Epignosis.
I touched upon my town read of FZ in a post a minute ago. It's not strong, but my gut points in favor of her.
JaggedJimmyJay - Campaigned passionately to save me yesterday, is trying to make me sweat today. Cool Jay things to do.
Kylemii - My own emotions last night were a perfect illustration of why townie Kyle would have acted the way he did.
Long Con - I feel like Scum Con would be more of a force in this game right now.
LoRab - Touched on previously.
MacDougall - Night work was awesome, and I liked his contributions on Day 1 before that.
Marmot - Touched on earlier. I want to go back to look at his posts to better identify where my feelings come from though.
novaseline - 3 posts, I think? And 0 things about the game discussed therein.
nutella - Refuses to give me the time of day.
Speedchuck - I feel like he has been the most stable thread presence in this game so far.

I changed my format in the middle of this list.

Your comment on Long Con was swiftly followed by him making a fairly significant post. So how do you feel about him now?

Also what do you base that point on?

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:07 am**

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:05 am pulling myself away from the emotional mindset (heartset?) I was in during day 1, I don't actually think Sloonei's actions would have been ideal actions for a mafiosa, like at all. The mafia reaction to their mislynch candidate not getting enough traction wouldn't be too focus even more on convincing people of that. That's.... That's not what mafia does. A mafia Sloonei might have just been like "well I guess this didn't work this time, so i'll let another civ get lynched instead and wait to set up Kyle later on" I mean isn't that the ideal situation?

I really don't see how the investment of so much effort into getting me lynched, especially with such urgency, would make sense in any circumstance other than the one where Sloonei is civ and was just actually really convinced that I'm mafia.

Moreover, what happens if mafia Sloonei successfully lynches you and you flip civilian? He gets a Day 1 mislynch which is already the most likely thing to happen in any Day 1, and he looks much stupider than he has to look in the process.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:09 am**

Spacedaisy,

Mac countered your lynch because it was easy. How does that make him civilian. I do agree that your lynch was "easy", but the notion that anyone calling it out as such is a civilian is a bit much.

As we all know, a wolf can defend a sudden civilian lynch more insightfully than a civilian can.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:11 am**

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:20 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:17 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:15 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:08 am I voted.

Give me reads on every player not named Kyle or Epignosis.
GTH reads at this very moment:

Dave/Daisy 2.0 - Town
DrWilgy - Town
Dyslexicon - Scum
Epignosis - Scum
FZ. - Town
JaggedJimmyJay - Town
Kylemii - Town
Long Con - Town
LoRab - Scum
MacDougall - Town
Marmot - Town
novaselinenever - Scum
nutella - Scum
speedchuck - Town

Why am I town?

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:12 am**

Voted Sloonei.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:12 am**

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:09 am Spacedaisy,

Mac countered your lynch because it was easy. How does that make him civilian. I do agree that your lynch was "easy", but the notion that anyone calling it out as such is a civilian is a bit much.

As we all know, a wolf can defend a sudden civilian lynch more insightfully than a civilian can.

What's your read on me?

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:13 am**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:22 am Baseline reads as of right now:

MacDougall
DaveDaisy
Kylemii
Long Con

Sloonei
Marmot
Epignosis
nutella

DrWilgy
novaselinenever
Dyslexicon
FZ.
LoRab

speedchuck

Why am I town?

Linki: GTH, I'd call you a scummuffin Mac.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:16 am**

Long Con does highlight some posts from speedchuck that are pingy. I felt at the time that he wasn't actually all that focused on the game but hand waved it somewhat as him coasting because he wasn't catching flak.

I would say his points have given me pause on speedchuck particularly given he was my number 1 gut civ read. When I analysed his interactions and found a good number of viable scum teammates I was quite surprised so now that there is some post analysis to his detriment I would be interested to see that lead explored more.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:17 am**

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:13 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:22 am Baseline reads as of right now:

MacDougall
DaveDaisy
Kylemii
Long Con

Sloonei
Marmot
Epignosis
nutella

DrWilgy
novaselinenever
Dyslexicon
FZ.
LoRab

speedchuck
Why am I town?

Linki: GTH, I'd call you a scummuffin Mac.

Based on what?

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:19 am**

like a civ Sloonei seeing the thread as a space where his really good suspect Kyle is escaping suspicion, "what if a player gets lynched who isn't him and they flip civ?" that's the Sloonei who writes The Great American Novel starring Kylemii.

A mafia Sloonei who is priming me for mislynch wouldn't care that much. For mafia Sloonei, any mislynch would have been just as good any as mine, maybe even better because he would have been able to use me as a focal point for suspicion to avoid talking about his actual teammates, and he wouldn't be put under immediate scrutiny. It goes way beyond wifom into actual bad investment territory.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:20 am**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:04 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:03 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:25 am
nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:22 am wait wtf Jay pressure-voted for Sloonei rather than immediately voting for Epi like he was supposed to? Nice try dude, that actually makes me lean back toward the Sloonei-and-Jay-are-scumbuddies side.
I don’t care.
Do you think nutella is mafia?
Light green skittle.

Why bark like that at someone you have a civ read on? You are a dominant voice and you could discourage her from continuing to analyse the game. If she is civ you should encourage her.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:24 am**

I feel the need to point out something. I notice that my posts are very different on phone. I can type 120wpm on keyboard so I am able to post at the speed that I think whereas on phone I have to slow down to post and my words come out more verbose. I have tended to catch heat for my phone posts and civ cred for keyboard posts.

All my night work was at my keyboard for instance. Being unable to switch between tabs and easily copy paste quotes and read ISOs sucks. Please consider what device I am using when you tone read me.

Posted: **Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:25 am**

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:20 am Why bark like that at someone you have a civ read on? You are a dominant voice and you could discourage her from continuing to analyse the game. If she is civ you should encourage her.

I'm sick of hearing about how suspicious I am. I already know my role card. I just swatted your accusation away derisively too.

If people suspect me then that's great. I don't care to waste my time talking about these little guesses about what sinister machinations JJJ may be up to. Very few people seem to get me.

If anyone feels discouraged by my being a grouch, then don't be. You play your hearts out.

The Syndicate

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