MAD MAX: GAME OVER

#1501

Rainbow #4

Sloonei

JaggedJimmyJay
a2thezebra
Quin
MacDougall

insertnamehere
Dom
DrWilgy
LoRab (read very much pending Elohcin flip)

indiglo

motel room

Glorfindel
sprityo

Elohcin

I'll elaborate on these once I have more time, given that it's 9 minutes before EoD. The flip will inevitably affect these as well.

#1502

Sloonei wrote:
Quin wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Quin wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Quin! Your vote's on Elohcin. Why do you hate my case against LoRab?
I still see a train of thought that would bring him to see a second frame job as a possibility. That much of your case I hate. I don't hate the rest of it, but Eloh is still my biggest scum read.
You've talked about it plenty, but I don't have time to read through all of your posts right now. What's the cliffnotes version of your case against Eloh?
Eloh started the day claiming that she found 3J's roleplay suspicious, and much later claimed that it was all in an attempt to provoke a response. The dialogue that she and 3J had after the initial accusation didn't reflect that at all, instead on a few occasions she was the one defending herself against him. You can see MP's big batch of spoiler posts for those. I also pointed out that her vote wasn't appropriate for self-preservation because her options were between Mac or an inactive BWT. A Mac vote was more likely to take off given the circumstances, so seeing her vote for the latter is still slightly haunting.
Is your last point that you don't think her Day 1 "self-preservation" vote was an earnest attempt at self-preservation? If that is the case, why would that reflect poorly on her?

What bothers me is the person who she chose to vote. I'm trying to avoid relying on hindsight, but I just think that the Rico/Mac argument made it more likely that out of Mac and BWT, the former would be lynched.

#1503

MovingPictures07 wrote:Rainbow #4

Sloonei

JaggedJimmyJay
a2thezebra
Quin
MacDougall

insertnamehere
Dom
DrWilgy
LoRab (read very much pending Elohcin flip)

indiglo

motel room

Glorfindel
sprityo

Elohcin

I'll elaborate on these once I have more time, given that it's 9 minutes before EoD. The flip will inevitably affect these as well.

I could have sworn you were scum reading me lol.

#1504

Actually, I'm not sure if that flies. She voted at what she thought was the last few minutes of the day, so she'd have put whoever in the lead anyway.

#1505

Quin wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Quin wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Quin wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Quin! Your vote's on Elohcin. Why do you hate my case against LoRab?
I still see a train of thought that would bring him to see a second frame job as a possibility. That much of your case I hate. I don't hate the rest of it, but Eloh is still my biggest scum read.
You've talked about it plenty, but I don't have time to read through all of your posts right now. What's the cliffnotes version of your case against Eloh?
Eloh started the day claiming that she found 3J's roleplay suspicious, and much later claimed that it was all in an attempt to provoke a response. The dialogue that she and 3J had after the initial accusation didn't reflect that at all, instead on a few occasions she was the one defending herself against him. You can see MP's big batch of spoiler posts for those. I also pointed out that her vote wasn't appropriate for self-preservation because her options were between Mac or an inactive BWT. A Mac vote was more likely to take off given the circumstances, so seeing her vote for the latter is still slightly haunting.
Is your last point that you don't think her Day 1 "self-preservation" vote was an earnest attempt at self-preservation? If that is the case, why would that reflect poorly on her?
What bothers me is the person who she chose to vote. I'm trying to avoid relying on hindsight, but I just think that the Rico/Mac argument made it more likely that out of Mac and BWT, the former would be lynched.

I still am not sure why this would make Elohcin look bad, though. If the argument is that she was not actually trying to save herself with that vote, then you're suggesting she was comfortable being lynched. If that is the case, what is her scum motive for this?

#1506

#1507

Quin wrote:Actually, I'm not sure if that flies. She voted at what she thought was the last few minutes of the day, so she'd have put whoever in the lead anyway.

This too. You should probably join the LoRab wagon.

#1508

MacDougall wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Rainbow #4

Sloonei

JaggedJimmyJay
a2thezebra
Quin
MacDougall

insertnamehere
Dom
DrWilgy
LoRab (read very much pending Elohcin flip)

indiglo

motel room

Glorfindel
sprityo

Elohcin

I'll elaborate on these once I have more time, given that it's 9 minutes before EoD. The flip will inevitably affect these as well.
I could have sworn you were scum reading me lol.

Nah, I keep going back and forth on you, but you haven't dropped below the lowest level of town for me. I feel better about you after your posts today.

#1509

Sloonei wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
LoRab wrote:I may be odd, but I'm not bad. I came out with a theory that was just a theory. I was throwing out an idea. Of course I wasn't sure if it. I did think the svs kill strange and I didn't perceive her as a "consensus civ." I personally wasn't sure of her until she was killed. So yes, I thought her an odd choice. I often add caveats of u sureness to theories because they are just theories and I tend to question my own ideas. And my conclusion, if you read my post, is that Eli is suspicious. That it could have been a frame thing I mentioned as a possibility, but one less likely than her being bad.

I can't help being strange. It won't be the first or last time it has gotten me a vote. But I strut you that I am not bad. And if theorizing about what the baddies were thinking when they made a kill, then I'm not sure I understand how other people think about this game. That's what I do as a civ. I try to figure out the baddies. When I saw the kill, I immediately looked up svs's posts. Eli's was a name I had noticed, -'d was a player I already had suspicion of. I thought it worthy to mention, and shared my thought process. That's really what that post was.

I don't really know what else to say other than reiterate that I am. It bad.

Also, I have another more than 12 hour work day coming up, and I'm not sure how much I'll be on. So voting now. Voting elo.
The highlighted portion resonates with me some. I do this pretty much every time a player is night killed. Judging what motivated a baddie team to choose a specific kill is always a shaky thing, but it's also quite wasteful to not bother at all. To check the post history of the deceased for any meaningful leads and then bring them into the thread for discussion is fine with me.

I also reiterate that I think opportunist baddies who have delivered a frame kill are usually not the ones who bring it up publicly. They don't literally promote their frame job in the thread, because that's extremely transparent. The point of a frame kill is to be subtle, and to move the townies toward a false suspicion. They almost always get there without being nudged. That nudging itself would be the most obvious way of assuring a frame kill doesn't have its intended consequence for the baddies.

Some players might do it anyway, those who favor playing with their WIFOM in your face. I don't think LoRab is that person.
Of course the highlighted strategy is a beneficial way to play the game. But do you think LoRab is being genuine here? This post seems primarily focused on things that aren't really relevant to the case I made against her, and this concerns me. I make no objections to the notion that LoRab was proposing an explanation for the nightkill. I had previously asked for people's thoughts on the matter. I am objecting to the specific theory that she laid out. Do you agree or disagree that "The mafia killed SVS to either save or frame Elohcin" is an odd assumption to make about that kill?

And to your second paragraph I would say that I do not think last night's kill was a frame job. Rather, it looks to me like LoRab is just jumping on it as an opportunity to push for Elohcin's lynch. Eloh was a good, easy lynch target entering the day; she's exactly the type of player a baddie would be inclined to push a bandwagon against. And LoRab came out pushing that wagon right off the bat today after having remarkably little to say about Eloh on Days 1 & 2.

Apologies for being late to this party, my friends. FWIW, I can see the logic behind your case here Sloonei and whilst I've not considered LoRab seriously as a baddie before, I think your case here holds more water than that against Elohcin. I find the collapse in the wagon on Sprityo to be intriguing - as ambivalent as I feel towards him, I'd not have touched that wagon with a 10 foot barge pole...

#1510

this is dangerous tie territory folks

#1511

Sloonei wrote:
Quin wrote:Actually, I'm not sure if that flies. She voted at what she thought was the last few minutes of the day, so she'd have put whoever in the lead anyway.
This too. You should probably join the LoRab wagon.

I still think my backpedaling case is strong, so I kindly reject your offer

#1512

Should I switch to Lorab?

#1513

Switching to Elo then

#1514

I have no time to figure out what y'all are talking about, so neat. I hope it's a correct lynch.

#1515

MacDougall wrote:Should I switch to Lorab?

yes

#1516

Quin wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Quin wrote:Actually, I'm not sure if that flies. She voted at what she thought was the last few minutes of the day, so she'd have put whoever in the lead anyway.
This too. You should probably join the LoRab wagon.
I still think my backpedaling case is strong, so I kindly reject your offer

#1517

If we no lynch I will fight someone

#1518

Sloonei wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Elohcin

Rainbow update upcoming.
What was your thought process in deciding this vote?

Well, I've had beefs with Elohcin for the majority of the game. I can lead you through my entire thought process if you want, but it'll require some extensive link/ISO digging action, and I don't want to do any of that until later -- I'm only sticking around for the result and then I have to go back to work on my paper, so I'll respond to JJJ's ISO and do other more time-intensive stuff when I have more time (probably tomorrow during Night 3).

The TL;DR version: Elohcin has consistently behaved in a fashion this game as if she has no desire to offer contributions, to hunt for baddies, etc. Her suspicion of JJJ regarding roleplaying seemed illogical, something I wasn't willing to condemn her for until she backtracked with little to no explanation and is now saying that it was all for a "reaction". I don't see any evidence of that in any of her behavior.

I could go on, but I've spoken about other beefs with her before as well.

#1519

motel room wrote:Switching to Elo then

This guy and his deciding vote.

#1520

Well I was trying to read the pages since I last checked in, then looked at the clock and realized I had 5 minutes until poll closing. So for now, as much as I hate to, I self-voted. I don't feel informed enough to jump on either of the current leading wagons.

I did see my name mentioned more than once, which I must say, I find very flattering.

Sadly, however, it's also very wrong, which is embarrassing for the mentioners.

And can't be based on anything since there's no content, which I find amusing for a variety of reasons.

#1521

Sloonei wrote:
motel room wrote:Switching to Elo then
This guy and his deciding vote.

He does like to freak everyone out by changing his vote, doesn't he?

#1522

indiglo wrote:Well I was trying to read the pages since I last checked in, then looked at the clock and realized I had 5 minutes until poll closing. So for now, as much as I hate to, I self-voted. I don't feel informed enough to jump on either of the current leading wagons.

I did see my name mentioned more than once, which I must say, I find very flattering. Sadly, however, it's also very wrong, which is embarrassing for the mentioners. And can't be based on anything since there's no content, which I find amusing for a variety of reasons.

What are the variety of reasons?

#1523

indiglo wrote:Well I was trying to read the pages since I last checked in, then looked at the clock and realized I had 5 minutes until poll closing. So for now, as much as I hate to, I self-voted. I don't feel informed enough to jump on either of the current leading wagons.

I did see my name mentioned more than once, which I must say, I find very flattering. Sadly, however, it's also very wrong, which is embarrassing for the mentioners. And can't be based on anything since there's no content, which I find amusing for a variety of reasons.

I think the only reason your name has come up at all is the lack of content.

#1524

Im very trying to sneak this site up and do this between work stuff

#1525

Intriguing.

#1526

I will change clothes, unpack a little, shower up, and then you'll have my attention for a bit before it's Zombie Time.

#1527

Dom once again sits out the lynch.

#1528

Since I never answered Jay's request, here is my current GTH scum team:

Elohcin, LoRab, indiglo, sprityo/Glorfindel

This is despite my slight town read of LoRab and null read of indiglo. It all depends on Elo's flip. If she flips town, this'll probably change.

#1529

Sloonei wrote:
indiglo wrote:Well I was trying to read the pages since I last checked in, then looked at the clock and realized I had 5 minutes until poll closing. So for now, as much as I hate to, I self-voted. I don't feel informed enough to jump on either of the current leading wagons.

I did see my name mentioned more than once, which I must say, I find very flattering. Sadly, however, it's also very wrong, which is embarrassing for the mentioners. And can't be based on anything since there's no content, which I find amusing for a variety of reasons.
I think the only reason your name has come up at all is the lack of content.

This.

#1530

Thanks for the reminder, MP! Look how weak this GTH scum team is.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Elohcin, Glorfindel, sprityo, indiglo

AKA "The four quietest players in the game"

#1531

Sloonei wrote:Dom once again sits out the lynch.

dom riding the MP train like

Spoiler: show

#1532

I just want to say I'm also interested in Jay's answers to Sloonei's various questions on this page (100 posts per page setting).

#1533

Sloonei wrote:Thanks for the reminder, MP! Look how weak this GTH scum team is.
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Elohcin, Glorfindel, sprityo, indiglo
AKA "The four quietest players in the game"

I don't care how quiet people are. That's where my head went when the gun was pointed at it. I also think Wilgy is quieter than those non-indiglo people.

#1534

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Thanks for the reminder, MP! Look how weak this GTH scum team is.
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Elohcin, Glorfindel, sprityo, indiglo
AKA "The four quietest players in the game"
I don't care how quiet people are. That's where my head went when the gun was pointed at it. I also think Wilgy is quieter than those non-indiglo people.

Why is this where your head went?

#1535

Pending Elo's mafia flip, I'd say GTH I see the most likely teammate bus votes for her being from LoRab and (believe it or not) JJJ. Discuss.

#1536

MovingPictures07 wrote:Pending Elo's mafia flip, I'd say GTH I see the most likely teammate bus votes for her being from LoRab and (believe it or not) JJJ. Discuss.

100% agreement

#1537

MovingPictures07 wrote:Pending Elo's mafia flip, I'd say GTH I see the most likely teammate bus votes for her being from LoRab and (believe it or not) JJJ. Discuss.

Can you elaborate?

#1538

Sloonei wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Thanks for the reminder, MP! Look how weak this GTH scum team is.
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Elohcin, Glorfindel, sprityo, indiglo
AKA "The four quietest players in the game"
I don't care how quiet people are. That's where my head went when the gun was pointed at it. I also think Wilgy is quieter than those non-indiglo people.
Why is this where your head went?

I've explained these at various points in the game. I'll summarize:

Elohcin should be clear. I made a huge case.

Glorfindel looks to me like he is struggling to involve himself organically when he is present, independent of his external time constraints.

I made a smaller case on sprityo earlier in the game and he hasn't done anything since. I think he's in the red zone for scum prospects in terms of contributory stats (post count, post thickness). I don't see a reason to call him town.

indiglo is a default pick because I have enough town leans that process of elimination leaves me there.

#1539

Apparently I became more suspicious while I was away today. Bummer man.

#1540

Quin wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Pending Elo's mafia flip, I'd say GTH I see the most likely teammate bus votes for her being from LoRab and (believe it or not) JJJ. Discuss.
Can you elaborate?

Well, I spoke on the Elo/LoRab interactions I saw a bit up there when I was catching up quickly. I'd have to dig into them a bit more, but I find it odd that LoRab and Elo have arrived at such pronounced mafia reads of each other, especially when I see Elo's hunting to be faked.

It is notable that the only other main player Elo has had interaction with this game is JJJ. I find her treatment of him inconsistent, but I'm not sold that means they're teammates. It is actually JJJ's treatment of Elo that bugs me a bit more. Again, I would have to do some investigation and maybe I would come to a different conclusion because I've generally been seeing JJJ as genuine this entire game, but right now I could see some of his conclusions as well as his strongheadedness regarding Elohcin to be assisted by confirmation bias.

#1541

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Apparently I became more suspicious while I was away today. Bummer man.

You're still a moderate town read for me. I don't suspect you. You're just my tinfoil GTH teammate of Elohcin, at least for the moment. Again, I emphasize that I just quickly caught up on everything. So pending Elo's flip I'd like to do some investigative work. I also still need to actually read and engage you on that ISO of me and such.

#1542

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Quin wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Pending Elo's mafia flip, I'd say GTH I see the most likely teammate bus votes for her being from LoRab and (believe it or not) JJJ. Discuss.
Can you elaborate?
Well, I spoke on the Elo/LoRab interactions I saw a bit up there when I was catching up quickly. I'd have to dig into them a bit more, but I find it odd that LoRab and Elo have arrived at such pronounced mafia reads of each other, especially when I see Elo's hunting to be faked.

It is notable that the only other main player Elo has had interaction with this game is JJJ. I find her treatment of him inconsistent, but I'm not sold that means they're teammates. It is actually JJJ's treatment of Elo that bugs me a bit more. Again, I would have to do some investigation and maybe I would come to a different conclusion because I've generally been seeing JJJ as genuine this entire game, but right now I could see some of his conclusions as well as his strongheadedness regarding Elohcin to be assisted by confirmation bias.

However, I add that I say the latter while all the same realizing that, as a member of the town, I have come to strong conclusions regarding Elo for most of the game as well. So I feel more strongly about the LoRab bus potential. But this is all putting cart ahead of horse. If Elo flips town, this is all meaningless.

#1543

I haven't felt any inspiration from Elohcin's defenses. Indeed that there are so many of them without much else is itself a problem. I hope I'm right.

#1544

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I haven't felt any inspiration from Elohcin's defenses. Indeed that there are so many of them without much else is itself a problem. I hope I'm right.

I'd agree with you there. I've been wrong about her many times before, so I'm admittedly nervous despite my strong read.

#1545

Regarding Glorfindel, he and I had a brief exchange earlier in the day about Rico's role that I am still sorting out in my head. The conversation went nowhere in terms of specific reads being developed, but that doesn't mean he brought it up for no reason.

I need to look back at Rico's posts for any evidence of information he may have acquired on Day 1.

#1546

I could not possibly be in more anticipation of this flip.

#1547

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Apparently I became more suspicious while I was away today. Bummer man.

feel free to address the questions or whatever i hurled your way when you have a moment.

#1548

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Regarding Glorfindel, he and I had a brief exchange earlier in the day about Rico's role that I am still sorting out in my head. The conversation went nowhere in terms of specific reads being developed, but that doesn't mean he brought it up for no reason.

I need to look back at Rico's posts for any evidence of information he may have acquired on Day 1.

I'm interested in anything that can assist in sorting out Glorfindel, sprityo, DrWilgy, and indiglo, because they're the biggest ?????'s for me right now.

#1549

MovingPictures07 wrote:I could not possibly be in more anticipation of this flip.

And you'll be in anticipation for this flip for another 10 minutes or so.

#1550

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Regarding Glorfindel, he and I had a brief exchange earlier in the day about Rico's role that I am still sorting out in my head. The conversation went nowhere in terms of specific reads being developed, but that doesn't mean he brought it up for no reason.

I need to look back at Rico's posts for any evidence of information he may have acquired on Day 1.

I thought it was strange that he seemed to address the point directly at you but then offered nothing more than "I think it might be useful to keep this in mind."
Actually that was pretty much the entire exchange. Okay I found the entire exchange strange.

Who squashed LoRab?