MAD MAX: GAME OVER

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Generic JJJ post about baddie interactions -- Elohcin and Dom

Elohcin:

Nothing

~~~

Dom:

Spoiler: show

I do not suspect Elohcin.

Why not?

i don't think anything she's done is abnormal for her civvie game... maybe a better way of saying it is that nothing she's done has made me think she is bad

I do not suspect Elohcin.

Why not?

i don't think anything she's done is abnormal for her civvie game... maybe a better way of saying it is that nothing she's done has made me think she is bad

Can you differentiate between what she does as a civilian and what she does as Mafia?

No explicitly, no.

I just take more convincing than most to find Elohcin suspicious.

This is similar to what was seen with Zebra. I am a little less inclined to view it as innocent just because he only barely began to explain himself. "I take more convincing that most" kind of bugs me a little bit. It's a small point.

~~~

That's it. There's too little to talk about for me to come to a confident conclusion. I'll say this makes Dom look slightly more questionable, but not super alarming.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Not to dunya.

She cheats.

[a2thezebra]

Not to dunya.

She cheats.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Generic JJJ post about baddie interactions -- Elohcin and DrWilgy

Elohcin:

Spoiler: show

Yo Mac, wanna team up?

What is this?

This is her only acknowledgement of Wilgy. It's a tiny little post, but I think it might actually say a lot. Elohcin showed herself to be the person taking easy opportunities in this game, particularly in her suspicions about my roleplay. This post looks like another similar example. Wilgy's post was typical Wilgy, and she took his bait by asking him about it (I think as a feeler to set herself up for an eventual Wilgy vote). That'd be a good look for the Doc.

~~~

DrWilgy:

Spoiler: show

DrWilgy, do you have any other gut and/or vibe-based reads you would like to share?

The only other player that I have thought about is Sprityo, whom I gut read as bad.

I like your analysis of Rico. I'd like an answer from Rico as to why he thought to interject here. Not sure if this has been explained yet or not, but I'm not willing to go back and check.

Zebra, how would you respond to me voting Rico right now?

I would support it and encourage others to do the same until a better suspect comes up, assuming that happens before the day phase ends.

I suppose that means votes are changeable?

Zebra what are your thoughts on Elochin and JJJ?

Isolated prod for Elohcin thoughts.

Spoiler: show

I initially accused JJJ of seeming like he was trying too hard with his roleplaying. But that was to see his reaction. I was trying to feel him out as I was not sure about him. But...I later said that even though his role playing confuses me and that I don't like it, I still think he is civ. So...not sure what you are talking about when you bring up the word suspicion.

I don't buy this. You seemed plenty sincere in your accusation.

MP can you link me to the accusation?

Wilgy requested a link related to Elohcin. I don't believe there was ever a follow-up on it.

His vote went to LoRab, the 4th of 5. That's a bad look.

~~~

I like a couple little things here, and I don't like the Day 3 vote. I wouldn't call him a town read at least.

[DrWilgy]

Generic JJJ post about baddie interactions -- Elohcin and DrWilgy

Elohcin:

Spoiler: show

Yo Mac, wanna team up?

What is this?

This is her only acknowledgement of Wilgy. It's a tiny little post, but I think it might actually say a lot. Elohcin showed herself to be the person taking easy opportunities in this game, particularly in her suspicions about my roleplay. This post looks like another similar example. Wilgy's post was typical Wilgy, and she took his bait by asking him about it (I think as a feeler to set herself up for an eventual Wilgy vote). That'd be a good look for the Doc.

~~~

DrWilgy:

Spoiler: show

DrWilgy, do you have any other gut and/or vibe-based reads you would like to share?

The only other player that I have thought about is Sprityo, whom I gut read as bad.

I like your analysis of Rico. I'd like an answer from Rico as to why he thought to interject here. Not sure if this has been explained yet or not, but I'm not willing to go back and check.

Zebra, how would you respond to me voting Rico right now?

I would support it and encourage others to do the same until a better suspect comes up, assuming that happens before the day phase ends.

I suppose that means votes are changeable?

Zebra what are your thoughts on Elochin and JJJ?

Isolated prod for Elohcin thoughts.

Spoiler: show

I initially accused JJJ of seeming like he was trying too hard with his roleplaying. But that was to see his reaction. I was trying to feel him out as I was not sure about him. But...I later said that even though his role playing confuses me and that I don't like it, I still think he is civ. So...not sure what you are talking about when you bring up the word suspicion.

I don't buy this. You seemed plenty sincere in your accusation.

MP can you link me to the accusation?

Wilgy requested a link related to Elohcin. I don't believe there was ever a follow-up on it.

His vote went to LoRab, the 4th of 5. That's a bad look.

~~~

I like a couple little things here, and I don't like the Day 3 vote. I wouldn't call him a town read at least.

I can't tell if your serious or not...

[a2thezebra]

Are you denying that that's where your vote went? Because we can all still see the poll results.

[Sloonei]

That result makes me feel worse about MP actually.

How so?

[DrWilgy]

Are you denying that that's where your vote went? Because we can all still see the poll results.

Is this adressed to me zeebs?

[a2thezebra]

That result makes me feel worse about MP actually.

How so?

He seemed to follow the yellow brick road in terms of his read of Eloh.

linki - Yes. I don't see why you're asking him if he's serious in regards to a true statement.

[DrWilgy]

That result makes me feel worse about MP actually.

How so?

He seemed to follow the yellow brick road in terms of his read of Eloh.

linki - Yes. I don't see why you're asking him if he's serious in regards to a true statement.

Simply because there was a lack of analysis of my vote. Thus It interested me.

[a2thezebra]

Here are MP's first three posts that reference Eloh.

It pains me to disparage a lady, but I do believe Elohcin's response to that random vote from her husband was a bit lifeless. Considering she is here to see Neil Hartley live and in the flesh, I know she isn't that bored. The look on her face, it's giving Neil the wrong impression.

I know nothing of this show, so JJJ is confusing me a bit. I may vote him. It seems a little 'trying too hard' to come in here role play like that right off the bat. Like he is trying to win us over. What do y'all think? And this is not WIFOM talking...whatever that is. I never understood that term completely. but you all seem to use it for when you go after someone who has gone after you? I don't know.

I'll hold off on voting for now.

The "trying too hard" argument bothers me, but I'm not sure I find you suspicious for it. I just don't agree. Also, Neil Hartley has nothing to do with Mad Max.

I know nothing of this show, so JJJ is confusing me a bit. I may vote him. It seems a little 'trying too hard' to come in here role play like that right off the bat. Like he is trying to win us over. What do y'all think? And this is not WIFOM talking...whatever that is. I never understood that term completely. but you all seem to use it for when you go after someone who has gone after you? I don't know?

What a wild post, madame! How would you feel if Neil Hartley told you that you "tried too hard" to find something negative to say about his roleplay! I think you might be bad news, and I'm gonna inform security to keep an eye on your table.

Elohcin

How much of this serious?

[a2thezebra]

That result makes me feel worse about MP actually.

How so?

He seemed to follow the yellow brick road in terms of his read of Eloh.

linki - Yes. I don't see why you're asking him if he's serious in regards to a true statement.

Simply because there was a lack of analysis of my vote. Thus It interested me.

Huh.

[DrWilgy]

That result makes me feel worse about MP actually.

How so?

He seemed to follow the yellow brick road in terms of his read of Eloh.

linki - Yes. I don't see why you're asking him if he's serious in regards to a true statement.

Simply because there was a lack of analysis of my vote. Thus It interested me.

Huh.

What?

[a2thezebra]

That result makes me feel worse about MP actually.

How so?

He seemed to follow the yellow brick road in terms of his read of Eloh.

linki - Yes. I don't see why you're asking him if he's serious in regards to a true statement.

Simply because there was a lack of analysis of my vote. Thus It interested me.

Huh.

What?

Right.

[DrWilgy]

That result makes me feel worse about MP actually.

How so?

He seemed to follow the yellow brick road in terms of his read of Eloh.

linki - Yes. I don't see why you're asking him if he's serious in regards to a true statement.

Simply because there was a lack of analysis of my vote. Thus It interested me.

Huh.

What?

Right.

Kay...

[Dom]

Jimmy you keep making really dickless inference to me being bad but ain't said shit yet. You just tryna discredit me because I am fucking legit and you can't touch me and want to be me.

When you talk like this you're usually bad, so cool.

Can you back this up? I am not inclined to believe it is true, but I haven't played many games with Mac in the last... three years or so.

I very mich disagree with JJJ here. In my experience, inflammatory Mac is civvie Mac.

Catching Up.

However, I don't agree with JJJ and his vote for me. Epi said it himself that he had no reason for voting/suspecting me.

One of the reasons you've gotten the attention of Neil Hartley for the wrong reasons is that you keep attributing my suspicion of you to Epignosis. Don't get me wrong, Epi is a top gentleman. He knows his stuff. You're talking to Neil though. You know, the main event? The man under the spotlight with the microphone who's been crooning the evening away so divinely? You're talking to me, not Epignosis.

It's weird. I don't know what it is. But your role-playing makes me cringe. (I'm not trying to be mean, just honest.) I think there are multiple reasons for this. First, you have always been such a logical, reasonable player. And this act seems to be the opposite to that. The second reason is difficult for me to explain. I am a very matter-of-fact person. Black and white. The role playing unnerves me for some reason and I think its b/c it seems like you are hiding behind it. Like you don;t have to be real or talk about real issues of the game b/c you are roleplaying. Maybe I am the one being weird, or who IS weird. Maybe I am bringing my own personality issues into this and shouldn't be. FWIW, I think you are civ.

Irony much?

This is the same kind of shit people gave Dom for in roleplaying his Donald Trump impression in a recent game. He contributed more original content while roleplaying than nearly everyone else playing that game. I believe JJJ is doing the same here.

You say you find him civilian now, but JJJ has been providing content even while roleplaying since the start of the game. What has changed? How did you come to a different conclusion?

Citation needed.

Citation needed? Pretty sure I observed the same thing in that game. I can find it I guess though if you want.

Citation still needed.
I sucked that game. I was right about DFaraday and Mac, but I sucked.

Though, I'm probably wrong about you.

What I'd most like to see from you at this point, Elohcin, is reads. Hopefully you can catch up soon.

I am just now sitting down after church/grocery shopping/lunch. So, I am not caught up....just have a few pages. But...honestly, I hate giving reads. I don't like to make suspicions. ...because no matter how genuine a suspicion may be, I always get crap from the thread that I am just making it up and that I am bad. So....until day 4-5 (assuming I make it that far), I usually keep semi-quiet on how I feel about players. And....that is how I will play this game as well. I can be an asset to the civs if I make it far enough into the game, I promise. But right now...I choose to keep my reads to myself unless something REALLY crazy pops out to me. But even when I think something crazy pops out to me and I mention it, I can feel the eyes in the room rolling.

now to go read the thread...

So you're prioritizing your survival in a game towards helping to solve the game, if you are town.

I think some of this is potentially honest regardless of your alignment -- you hate giving reads, etc. I can believe that. So there's that.

What does everyone else think of this post?

TBH I was pretty convinced we were going to see a civ Eloh flip after reading this post.

Dom once again sits out the lynch.

Hi there.
Excuse me?

YES! I WAS RIGHT ABOUT ELO FOR ONCE!

And I was wrong about you, I think.

INH, Glorfindel, Dom and Zebra perhaps are our baddies.

You flipped on me fast.

Motel Room is most certainly not Mafia. I doubt MP busses Elo at that key moment. I'm not bad. Jimmy would have to have driven that bus all the way from the centre of the Earth so I doubt he is bad. I expect a couple of the late Lorab voters were really trying to save her without making it look obvious. I think we'll ride that lynch all the way to valhalla.

motel room is one of the players whose most up in the air for me with regards to LoRab's alignment. If she's bad too, his only options at the end of the day were scum/scum. If he's also scum, that's bus/bus and his vote is pretty much null.

I agree with Sloonei's analysis here.

[Sloonei]

Dom once again sits out the lynch.

Hi there.
Excuse me?

You parked your vote on MP early on. Again.

[LoRab]

I find curious that Dom hasn't responded to any of my posts that mention him...

[Dom]

Dom once again sits out the lynch.

Hi there.
Excuse me?

You parked your vote on MP early on. Again.

Explain to me how that's sitting out.
I voted someone who I believed was baddie. I made multiple posts trying to convince others to vote with me.

I find curious that Dom hasn't responded to any of my posts that mention him...

You mean where you said I am more paranoid as a baddie? Ok. Cool. Where am I paranoid? Because I made a case against MP because I believed (and kind of still do, but see the limits of the reality here) that he was buddying me? How is that paranoid?

Or are you talking about this:

My other suspicions are more amorphous: the low posters because they don't give us anything to go on. I keep getting pings from Dom, but he has also said things that feel civ to me--but he's on my list of considerations.

Which is so unsubstantial I don't even know how you'd like me to respond.

This post is a shitstorm. You do the following things in it:
1) Make no direct accusation. Let others do that for you.
2) Imply malintent on my part by using relatively *neutral* words like curious, but pairing it with an ellipses.
3) Not even have anything really to respond to.

[MacDougall]

Lol Dom is entertaining from the other side.

[Glorfindel]

Hello, Glorfindel!

I just got off work and was reading back.. my apologies for missing this, my friend By all means, Greetings!

[DrWilgy]

Question that is currently in my head. What would Mafia Mac gain from revealing my alignment?
1. Possible support from me
2. Possible Credit when I'm killed
3. Possible forcing of connections

Why would Mafia Mac need any of these 3 at the moment of him declaring his civ read of me? Is my next question.
1. He just lost a teammate?
2. He doesn't want to keep lying?
3. He wants comrades to vote with him?
...
...

Unknown...

...
...
Back to browsing memes. Bye everyone.

[MacDougall]

Question that is currently in my head. What would Mafia Mac gain from revealing my alignment?
1. Possible support from me
2. Possible Credit when I'm killed
3. Possible forcing of connections

Why would Mafia Mac need any of these 3 at the moment of him declaring his civ read of me? Is my next question.
1. He just lost a teammate?
2. He doesn't want to keep lying?
3. He wants comrades to vote with him?
...
...

Unknown...

...
...
Back to browsing memes. Bye everyone.

I am confused. When did I do this stuff?

[Dom]

Question that is currently in my head. What would Mafia Mac gain from revealing my alignment?
1. Possible support from me
2. Possible Credit when I'm killed
3. Possible forcing of connections

Why would Mafia Mac need any of these 3 at the moment of him declaring his civ read of me? Is my next question.
1. He just lost a teammate?
2. He doesn't want to keep lying?
3. He wants comrades to vote with him?
...
...

Unknown...

...
...
Back to browsing memes. Bye everyone.

I am confused. When did I do this stuff?

He didn't exactly accuse you of doing anything. Can you explain what you mean further?

[MacDougall]

Question that is currently in my head. What would Mafia Mac gain from revealing my alignment?
1. Possible support from me
2. Possible Credit when I'm killed
3. Possible forcing of connections

Why would Mafia Mac need any of these 3 at the moment of him declaring his civ read of me? Is my next question.
1. He just lost a teammate?
2. He doesn't want to keep lying?
3. He wants comrades to vote with him?
...
...

Unknown...

...
...
Back to browsing memes. Bye everyone.

I am confused. When did I do this stuff?

He didn't exactly accuse you of doing anything. Can you explain what you mean further?

I am assuming he is saying that I have done the things he is speaking of thought I am very confused by what he is posting. I don't understand his post at all.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

That result makes me feel worse about MP actually.

How so?

He seemed to follow the yellow brick road in terms of his read of Eloh.

linki - Yes. I don't see why you're asking him if he's serious in regards to a true statement.

Simply because there was a lack of analysis of my vote. Thus It interested me.

It was a late day vote for the premier counterwagon to a baddie lynch. At face value that isn't ideal.

[MacDougall]

Should I switch to Lorab?

yes

[JaggedJimmyJay]

One thing I wanted to look into was what I thought was hinting by Glorfindel that he is MFP and targeted Ricochet on Night 1 (which would ensure Rico knows he is MFP). The following post came on Day 2:

Glorfindel - has taken my side on the valiant noble quest to take down MacMad, but let's review his actual reasons:

-- "happy to throw a vote Mac's way - for the Shu tribe!" >>> jokey / basically his own brand of policy, revenge lynch
-- lynching him would mathematically fall into a 21% chance of success >>> I'd say this POV is as irksome as anyone, in any game, bringing up stats to describe any kind of impulse to hunt or not for baddies D1
-- had nothing concrete on others >> surely it was too early, though, to leave it at that and voting Mac for meta wasn't exactly "concrete" either
-- finds the odds increased by reading some good, but not Mac; invokes once more the "fool me once" perspective >>> rather faulty for 1) not specifying which players he found good (see below) and 2) deflecting a bit Jay's original question, whether he finds Mac suspicious at all or not
-- comes back with an answer on which players he reads good (Jay and myself) >>> uhm ok

Well I'm not the one to talk about latching on to a Mac vote for Day 1, heh, but his reasons are not quite as principled as I regard my own to have been. He insisted on the idea only when inquired (JJJ), but the whole "bitten once, never game" argumentation is not serious in any way. I'd give a minus for the stats POV and never return to a search for "something concrete" to suspect other players for - although this could well be related to how much time he had to be around. His townleans are a bit, ech, easy, handy: me being the player he voted alongside and Jay being the player he had to conversate with and answer questions to.

Now, as for Mac's meta theory, about Glorfindel being conditioned to struggle if an agent of corruption: for one, I'm the kind of person to believe that anyone can build up a persona of deception or try to put on a good show if rolling mafia and that that wouldn't Glorfindel, despite his "wouldn't hurt a fly" / "why can't we be friends" traits. Would I put him on the radar right now, for the relative thinness in his stances and reads? Sure. Is it telling that he is not yet exhibiting "force of nature" like hunt mode? I'd call it premature. Would I say I find him angsty or such in what he provided or providing more? No, some of his other posts, while of the fluff kind, strike as normal, amiable.

This suggests to me that Rico did not know Glorfindel's alignment. He examined both sides of the read in his patented analytic style. I am led to believe Rico did not have information on Glorfindel. It is still possible he had information on someone else though, so that's worth looking into. If I remember after my baddie interaction checks I'll do it.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Generic JJJ post about baddie interactions -- Elohcin and Glorfindel

Elohcin:

Spoiler: show

@ Quin - Yes, you found the post I was referring to.

@ Sloonei - If you are trying to read more on a person that you could be troubled about, you don't make it obvious. Duh!

The players I will be looking at today are:
Mac - simply b/c other players are finding him suspicious and I seem to be missing the hype. I need to reread him.
Lorab - b/c (no offence) I always see her playstyle as sneaky and bad and I need to decide if it's real or just my predisposition.
Quin - b/c he replaced a non-participant before replacing Glor who also said he cannot participate. I imagine a baddie would be replaced before a civ.
and
....not sure who else atm.


I agree with Lorab and Sloon about Glor. I think we ought to see more of him before we decide to boot him out with allthe RL stuff going on there.

The highlighted portion is of interest. She seemed to think Quin replaced Glorfindel and not sanmateo. Perhaps it was fake; I kind of doubt it. Based on Quin replacing in before indiglo did, Elohcin painted Quin as bad ("baddies replace before civs"), associating Quin with the Glorfindel slot. Thus, she was calling Glorfindel bad in this post with the following discrepancies at hand:

1. The premise is already dubious. There's no good reason to think a baddie had to be replaced before a townie between Quin and indiglo.
2. Quin didn't replace Glorfindel.'

I get the feeling this moment says a lot about indiglo and Glorfindel. My instinct right now is to say it looks good for Glorfindel and bad for indiglo. This isn't the first time someone has suggested that a baddie is usually a higher priority replacement, which leaves Elohcin with an opportunity to play into the fact that it went the opposite way in this game. I also think she'd be more aware of who was being replaced if it was a member of her team.

I'm feeling inspired by this little doozy. I welcome thoughts.

~~~

Glorfindel:

Spoiler: show

Quin - b/c he replaced a non-participant before replacing Glor who also said he cannot participate. I imagine a baddie would be replaced before a civ.

I beg your pardon? Have I been replaced? I don't recall asking for a replacement?

Glorfindel wasn't pleased when Elohcin suggested he was replaced -- I think he wondered whether it had actually happened.

Spoiler: show

Are you caught up enough to offer any reads, Glorf?

Funny you should ask, my friend - I was just ISOing you . I seem to recall reading a number of suspicions levelled at you so I thought you might be a good place to start.

Back in Ro3K, I remember when you replaced in, I got a pretty strong Town read on you then on the basis of your (initial) posts but as the game went on, it seemed to me that you became less involved and I grew somewhat less convinced of your Town alignment but my intuition proved accurate. Comparing your performance to this game, you seem consistently involved at a level to dispel any concerns in that regard. You questioned Mac's alignment (legitimately in my opinion) and I assume that is where some of the subsequent accusations against you have started.

I liked the fact that you resisted the Scotty push Day 1 and you seemed consistent in your accusations against Elohcin (although I confess your basis for those accusations - her interactions with Neil - seems a little thin to me...). Day 2 you raised concerns about INH's MP eulogy. I don't know if you're onto something here or not - I'll look at INH in greater depth later).

I do like your non-acceptance of the case against Ricochet and am concerned at the heat you received from DrWilgy as a consequence. You expressed concerns about MP and seemed to refocus on Eloh. This is probably the one post of yours that concerns me most:

I still can't tell if Mac is being antagonistic because he's Mac or because he's scum. I laughed at more of his posts than anyone else's, so I'm giving him a town read on that alone.

Everything else aside, I think this is a terrible reason upon which to base a judgement of anyone's innocence.

And back to Elohcin...

From my perspective after having considered your posts and behaviour, I'd be satisfied to place you in my 'Town pile' for the time being. I sense a genuineness in your comments, arguments and conclusions (not saying that I agree with them at all) that gives me some comfort about you in this game.

This is more about Sloonei than Elohcin. The gist is that Glorfindel believes Sloonei's suspicion of Elohcin was genuine even if he didn't personally find it as compelling. I think that looks okay.

Spoiler: show

Apologies for being late to this party, my friends. FWIW, I can see the logic behind your case here Sloonei and whilst I've not considered LoRab seriously as a baddie before, I think your case here holds more water than that against Elohcin. I find the collapse in the wagon on Sprityo to be intriguing - as ambivalent as I feel towards him, I'd not have touched that wagon with a 10 foot barge pole...

Here Glorfindel seems more moved by Sloonei's case against LoRab than the case against Elohcin. His vote eventually reflected that (5th of 5).

~~~

I think there's some meat in this analysis, and the stuff that inspires me most has me looking at a town Glorfindel. It's the one point I made up there about Elohcin's mistaken impression that he was replaced. The worst thing to say for him is that his Day 3 vote went to the counterwagon, and it was at the end of the counterwagon. At face value I think Glorfindel looked genuine in his support of Sloonei's LoRab case, but I'd still like for him to expand on what drove him to place the vote that he placed.

From non-Glorfindel people, I really want to hear thoughts on that first point I made.

[G-Man]

DAY 3

[LoRab]

Dom once again sits out the lynch.

Hi there.
Excuse me?

You parked your vote on MP early on. Again.

Explain to me how that's sitting out.
I voted someone who I believed was baddie. I made multiple posts trying to convince others to vote with me.

I find curious that Dom hasn't responded to any of my posts that mention him...

You mean where you said I am more paranoid as a baddie? Ok. Cool. Where am I paranoid? Because I made a case against MP because I believed (and kind of still do, but see the limits of the reality here) that he was buddying me? How is that paranoid?

Or are you talking about this:

My other suspicions are more amorphous: the low posters because they don't give us anything to go on. I keep getting pings from Dom, but he has also said things that feel civ to me--but he's on my list of considerations.

Which is so unsubstantial I don't even know how you'd like me to respond.

This post is a shitstorm. You do the following things in it:
1) Make no direct accusation. Let others do that for you.
2) Imply malintent on my part by using relatively *neutral* words like curious, but pairing it with an ellipses.
3) Not even have anything really to respond to.

I more meant the first one, but that you didn't acknowledge either post was what struck me. And not so much about when you are more paranoid, but that you were/are being paranoid here. It is partly the buttering up thing. It also your general tone in responding to others. But also.... Can you state where MP was buttering you up?

And the purpose of my post where I mention you (which included many things other than you) wasn't meant to make a case against you, merely to explain why you are on my radar at all. Mainly because I was asked directly. If you read it as a whole, you'll probably even see that you're not the highest of my suspicions.

The purpose of the post where I say you haven't responded was simply to say that you hadn't responded. Not to make a direct accusation based on it, but to note it. And to get you to respond.

I always use words like curious. And as I have said about you, I'm really not sure. So neutral words are exactly that. I do find it odd that you didn't acknowledge my posts at all. I was not implying malintent.

It your tone of response demonstrates the paranoia mentioned earlier.

[G-Man]

The Day 3 poll has been added to the polls section. See? I told you I'd do better next time!

[LoRab]

@jjj: to answer your query about your first point, I agree. I also think it makes it highly unlikely that Elo had BTSC with glorf. Or Quin for that matter.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@jjj: to answer your query about your first point, I agree. I also think it makes it highly unlikely that Elo had BTSC with glorf. Or Quin for that matter.

Do you feel there's anything to be said from that about indiglo, the other replacement?

[indiglo]

@jjj: to answer your query about your first point, I agree. I also think it makes it highly unlikely that Elo had BTSC with glorf. Or Quin for that matter.

Do you feel there's anything to be said from that about indiglo, the other replacement?

I just read that section a couple of times to try to make sure what you were saying. It looks like you are saying you think I'm a teammate of Elo's based on something she said that didn't even make sense (at least not to me). There is nothing for me to do or say other than - you are wrong.

LoRab's post about me made zero sense as well. I have been quite clear about how caught up I am. I have read all the pages since I started posting/playing, and nothing before. So of course I am aware that people have said my name, because I read those pages.

I have to say honestly, that this is seriously hindering my desire to even try to play this game after subbing in. I'm not sure if it's opportunistic baddies or just civs who are simply wrong. Either way, coming in and starting off on the defensive for absolutely no reason at all is going to completely paint the entire way I read everyone in the thread and isn't helpful to my game.

I'm not being sour grapes either, because I sub into games all the time - I'm practically a professional sub. I've probably subbed into more games that I've signed up for. I've never gotten this type of reception. Even when I've subbed in for a baddie who slipped up, and I come in as the clean up man. Now that's a tough situation to sub into. This is just an annoying situation to sub into.

So here's the deal - no one thinks I'm suspicious because of any actual content. Yet people still find me suspicious for "reasons". It makes no sense, it's either blatantly pushing an agenda, or just a foolish waste of time. There is absolutely nothing for me to say or defend against here, it's just a whole bunch of nothing.

I am not bad. Conclude whatever you want, but you will be wrong (or else revealed as a baddie) at some point in the game.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Generic JJJ post about baddie interactions -- Elohcin and insertnamehere

Elohcin:

Nothing

~~~

insertnamehere:

Spoiler: show

Elohcin has been acting odd, and I dislike her besmirching of the honorable Neil Hartley. But I'd like to see a bit more before necessarily scum-reading her.

I've segmented this post into three parts because it'll help me to dissect it for you all.

This part is a vague assertion. I don't know what "odd" is. What I interpret is that there is some degree of implied suspicion, even if minimal.

This part is no longer an implication and rather a clear accusation. The word "dislike" assures it. This is a separate thought from this part, meaning he thinks her besmirching of my roleplay is a separate thing to her acting odd.

This part shows INH staying cool in his commentary against Elohcin. This mindset isn't necessarily a problem, because little Day 1 pings are unlikely to lead to conclusive reads. I'm not sure this needed to be said though. I'd also compare it to his comment about Scotty in the same post, snipped above...

INSERTNAMEHERE SAID:
Scotty is probably the person behind Ricochet who's pinging me the most. I don't like his interactions with Epi one bit.

This is as vague as "Elohcin is acting odd", but it is spoken with more confidence and there is no "not quite going to scum read him yet" type caveat as there was with Elohcin. This means he was willing to cast suspicion upon Elohcin without really taking a definitive stance, but he was willing to take a stance for Rico and Scotty. That's mildly suspicious.

Spoiler: show

The two people who came out of Day 1 looking worse for me are Elo and Epi, those two lovebirds.

Elo's Scotty vote and "self-preservation" was weird to me. Same thing with Epi's ultimately useless last second switcheroo where he jumped off of the Scotty train mere seconds before it crashed into a wall. I'd really like to see his explanation for his vote because right now it just rings as hollowly opportunistic.

Another vague assertion is highlighted. This time though there is no caveat, so the stance is more definitive.

Spoiler: show

The lynch train against Scotty being one that was perpetrated against a civ, made me reconsider my assumptions about two people, Epi and Elo. I didn't imply that they were my two top suspects, but that my view of both of them was altered by the Day 1 results. And I never called Epi mafia.

In his conversation with Sloonei, INH clarifies that he felt Elohcin emerged looking worse than before but wasn't necessarily a top suspect. That's somewhat familiar to the previous caveat, though it's important to note that this was demanded by the context of Sloonei accusing him of reads inconsistency.

Still, on Day 1 INH's perspective of Elohcin was at least vaguely negative. Then he said she looked worse. So on Day 2 she should be worse than vaguely negative, which would seem significant.

Spoiler: show

The post that you keep throwing in my face over and over again, pretending it says something that it doesn't, is the one I wrote immediately after Scotty was revealed to be a civilian. I stated that two people come out of that reveal looking worse for me: Elo and Epi. I didn't state that I thought they were scum, even though you say I did. I didn't state that they were the two that I think the worst of, even though you say I did.

INH continues to resist the notion that he read Elohcin as a baddie. He doesn't want to be associated with that read.

Rainbow list, Elohcin featured in the orange pile

I'd say this coloring is consistent enough with his previously stated perspectives of Elohcin. The only curious thing is that he has her in a distinctly "suspicious" tier, but he is abjectly refusing to call her a baddie definitively.

Spoiler: show

Nothing Mac's done has made me read scum on him, and it feels like he's one of only two other people whose heads are at the same place as mine. Elohcin's acted weird, but it's harder for me to see a baddie reason for her oddness than it is for me with Rico. Glorf is someone I've barely played with and am still feeling out. So far he's done nothing to cause me to lean one way or the other. He's contributed tho, which makes me rank him above the inacts. Spirityo is someone who hasn't really made a big impression on me, although I'm not a fan of how he's contributed to the dogpile against me. But then again, I am pretty biased when it comes to that.

Vague mania. Elohcin was weird and odd, but that weirdness and oddness was less baddie-compatible than Rico's weirdness and oddness. This would be much easier to follow if I knew what INH felt was weird and odd about Elohcin in the first place.

Spoiler: show

At this point, I'd be more likely to vote Lorab than Elo. I don't necessarily think that SVS was killed for some elaborate Elochin frame job, but Lorab's opportunistic bandwagon hoppery with him jumping on both my case and Elo's out of nowhere gets my goat to a larger degree than the case against Elo, which has gotten pretty stale over the days with less and less new evidence coming out against her.

Lorab is someone on my list of people I had planned to ISO, that I haven't gotten around to yet. Idk, maybe I'm just biased because he went after me for, in my subjective opinion, less than reasonable reasons.

This post features INH explaining his eventual decision to vote for LoRab instead of Elohcin. The highlighted portion (I say that too damned much, I'm going to start a band called The Highlighted Portion) isn't my favorite thing. He dismisses the Elohcin case, asserting it has gotten stale in the absence of new evidence. The problem is -- there were no cases in this game that were built on "new evidence". With no baddies dead, evidence didn't actually exist. The only objective information we had available was lynch results and night kill choices -- neither of which would implicate LoRab any more than Elohcin. That would strike me as a big reach.

~~~

The recurring themes here are dual.

1. INH was critical of Elohcin at multiple points of the game, but almost always vaguely. He repeatedly said she was acting weirdly or oddly, and I don't know what that ever meant.

2. Despite his criticisms, he was never willing to commit to calling her a scum read. Indeed he hated it when Sloonei said as much.

I don't think this stuff screams "INH is bad!", but it doesn't work in his favor either. In a narrowing field of suspects, this looks worse than it would have earlier in the game.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I just read that section a couple of times to try to make sure what you were saying. It looks like you are saying you think I'm a teammate of Elo's based on something she said that didn't even make sense (at least not to me). There is nothing for me to do or say other than - you are wrong.

I am exploring Elohcin's post history and deciding what I think is noteworthy. While it might not be your favorite thing, those things that Elohcin says about you are relevant to how you might be read. Elohcin was bad, and her commentary was thus often likely to be driven by a bad motive.

You're right that it doesn't leave you with much room for self-defense, but that shouldn't stop me from exploring it. Sometimes baddies accidentally reveal their team mates in their content. Finding those moments is something I have had some success with in the past. Whether this is an example of that is something I haven't conclusively decided yet. It's just part of the game.

I have to say honestly, that this is seriously hindering my desire to even try to play this game after subbing in. I'm not sure if it's opportunistic baddies or just civs who are simply wrong. Either way, coming in and starting off on the defensive for absolutely no reason at all is going to completely paint the entire way I read everyone in the thread and isn't helpful to my game.

I'm not being sour grapes either, because I sub into games all the time - I'm practically a professional sub. I've probably subbed into more games that I've signed up for. I've never gotten this type of reception. Even when I've subbed in for a baddie who slipped up, and I come in as the clean up man. Now that's a tough situation to sub into. This is just an annoying situation to sub into.

So here's the deal - no one thinks I'm suspicious because of any actual content. Yet people still find me suspicious for "reasons". It makes no sense, it's either blatantly pushing an agenda, or just a foolish waste of time. There is absolutely nothing for me to say or defend against here, it's just a whole bunch of nothing.

We're all glad to have you playing the game with us, indiglo. It's enriched for having you aboard, I mean that. But this doesn't help me.

The highlighted portion is unreasonable. Let me explain why:

"Reasons" is not accurate. I have repeatedly explained why I have some suspicion of you. You cannot fairly reduce that to "reasons" as if I am just making up nonsense as I go. That's not true.

Are these things that you can defend yourself against? No, not really. I acknowledge that. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't be in this thread right now. Even things you can't defend can still be valid and correct, and it is the job of every townie to explore whatever is available to be explored. It isn't "a whole bunch of nothing", it's meaningful content coming straight from the mouth of a confirmed baddie.

If you don't think that's a valid angle, then I think you're bad. Period.

[LoRab]

@jjj: to answer your query about your first point, I agree. I also think it makes it highly unlikely that Elo had BTSC with glorf. Or Quin for that matter.

Do you feel there's anything to be said from that about indiglo, the other replacement?

I mentioned Indiglo in the novel post I wrote last night as one of my second tier suspicions. Since I'm sure very few people, if any, read the entire wall of text, my instinct with her is that her posts sound like baddies do when they replace in--lots of "I'm catching up" and never actually catching up. Because they don't need to, having been updated in BTSC. Adding in an awareness of the present thread, but not so much that she knew where to vote. She knew she had been brought up, but didn't have a handle on where to vote.

Looking at her 2 posts towards the end of the lynch:

Just swung in from on the road. I see a tie, and the idea that a tie will result in a no lynch. Should I break the tie? Please be aware I am not caught up, and feel terrible about that, and seeing the vote in such a situation. Is the tie intentional to not have a lynch?

I will check back in a few, I need to get my power cord anyway, my battery's about to die.

15 minutes later:

Well I was trying to read the pages since I last checked in, then looked at the clock and realized I had 5 minutes until poll closing. So for now, as much as I hate to, I self-voted. I don't feel informed enough to jump on either of the current leading wagons.

I did see my name mentioned more than once, which I must say, I find very flattering. Sadly, however, it's also very wrong, which is embarrassing for the mentioners. And can't be based on anything since there's no content, which I find amusing for a variety of reasons.

Not sure how much she could have read in 15 minutes, and based on the votes around her, MP posted about his vote at 8:45 (probably while she was posting, since she commented on the tie--I can't remember that anyone moved a vote away. Glorf posted his vote at 8:57. So, the vote count would have been 5-4 when she voted. It wouldn't make sense to vote for me and create an apparent tie. Nor would it make sense to put the final nail in the coffin of a teammate--especially considering the station master vote. As it was, at this time, there was a chance the lynch could have ended in a tie, and kept Elo another day. Leaving it as is would make the most sense for a teammate.

Anyway, your point nudges up my already present suspicion. But I could also be reading your point through the lens of already being suspicious of her.

[indiglo]

This is hilarious.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

This is hilarious.

I'm trying to have a conversation with you. Please help me out.

[indiglo]

This is hilarious.

I'm trying to have a conversation with you. Please help me out.

Buddy, I have said everything I can as clearly as I possibly can. You dismissed all of it, and used it as further evidence why I am probably bad. I can't come up with anything else to say to you. I'm also not in the habit of continuing to talk when I've said what I want and the other person hasn't heard it.

I will add this - I love being lynched as a civ. Not because I like to lose, or because I want my team to lose. But because I love being right. But here's the dig - when I get lynched as a civ, the baddies are happy, and the civs who were wrong will still feel justified and say "well, she should have acted like a civ" and no one learns anything from the whole situation. But I am not a robot with pre-programmed responses as to how to "act like a civ" according to someone else. What I am is ass crack exhausted, I wanted to get my feet under me in this game to actually play it. That didn't happen. So now I'm in between a rock and a hard place. I'm too tired to fight to get out, and I'm too annoyed to care to push through the exhaustion and try.

And PS - yes they are nonsense "reasons" when they are wrong. Yes they are. Period. I have the luxury of knowing that, because I know my role, and you don't. (Or else you are bad.)

There will be no getting a rise out of me with bullying. There will be no rallying me to keep fighting by pushing me. I don't work that way.

[LoRab]

This is hilarious.

I'm trying to have a conversation with you. Please help me out.

Buddy, I have said everything I can as clearly as I possibly can. You dismissed all of it, and used it as further evidence why I am probably bad. I can't come up with anything else to say to you. I'm also not in the habit of continuing to talk when I've said what I want and the other person hasn't heard it.

I will add this - I love being lynched as a civ. Not because I like to lose, or because I want my team to lose. But because I love being right. But here's the dig - when I get lynched as a civ, the baddies are happy, and the civs who were wrong will still feel justified and say "well, she should have acted like a civ" and no one learns anything from the whole situation. But I am not a robot with pre-programmed responses as to how to "act like a civ" according to someone else. What I am is ass crack exhausted, I wanted to get my feet under me in this game to actually play it. That didn't happen. So now I'm in between a rock and a hard place. I'm too tired to fight to get out, and I'm too annoyed to care to push through the exhaustion and try.

And PS - yes they are nonsense "reasons" when they are wrong. Yes they are. Period. I have the luxury of knowing that, because I know my role, and you don't. (Or else you are bad.)

There will be no getting a rise out of me with bullying. There will be no rallying me to keep fighting by pushing me. I don't work that way.

This is a much better defense than mocking suspicion of you.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

This is hilarious.

I'm trying to have a conversation with you. Please help me out.

Buddy, I have said everything I can as clearly as I possibly can. You dismissed all of it, and used it as further evidence why I am probably bad. I can't come up with anything else to say to you. I'm also not in the habit of continuing to talk when I've said what I want and the other person hasn't heard it.

I will add this - I love being lynched as a civ. Not because I like to lose, or because I want my team to lose. But because I love being right. But here's the dig - when I get lynched as a civ, the baddies are happy, and the civs who were wrong will still feel justified and say "well, she should have acted like a civ" and no one learns anything from the whole situation. But I am not a robot with pre-programmed responses as to how to "act like a civ" according to someone else. What I am is ass crack exhausted, I wanted to get my feet under me in this game to actually play it. That didn't happen. So now I'm in between a rock and a hard place. I'm too tired to fight to get out, and I'm too annoyed to care to push through the exhaustion and try.

And PS - yes they are nonsense "reasons" when they are wrong. Yes they are. Period. I have the luxury of knowing that, because I know my role, and you don't. (Or else you are bad.)

There will be no getting a rise out of me with bullying. There will be no rallying me to keep fighting by pushing me. I don't work that way.

I'm not bullying you or anything like that, so

I'll reduce this to one question:

Do you think I should care what Elohcin said in her posts?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

indiglo has always been one of the most reasonable townies to communicate with. She and I have made a great team more than once. I'm surprised to be met with this kind of commentary -- that there is no alternative to my content between "foolish waste of time" and "bad".

[Sloonei]

indiglo has always been one of the most reasonable townies to communicate with. She and I have made a great team more than once. I'm surprised to be met with this kind of commentary -- that there is no alternative to my content between "foolish waste of time" and "bad".

I agree somewhat with this and I think you've made some reasonable points against her/her spot in the game, but I can also sympathize with her here because there is no suspicion being drawn from her as an individual. She is not suspicous herself, but her roster spot is. It's a very difficult position to be in when you're tasked with defending yourself. I do not agree with her assessment of the case as "nonsense" or "foolish" though.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Generic JJJ post about baddie interactions -- Elohcin and LoRab

Elohcin:

Spoiler: show

Epi expressed suspicion of Elo earlier, which interests me because they read each other well. Would love for him to elaborate on his thoughts.

I seriously thought his actions were a joke or trying to get a rise out of me or something. I think my reaction was what would determine his thoughts of me. Too bad I had to react after midnight after several drinks (when I don't drink often at all). It probably is what started me off on the wrong track for this game.

Now, as for my vote today (Day 1 ) I can see where scotty can be bad. I am moving my vote there. I don't want to vote BWT if I don't have to. Hate to lose a possible civ position even if it's a quiet one.

Elohcin answers to LoRab's assertion that Epi's early vote was interested given his skill in reading his wife. On its own I'm not sure this exchange tells me much.

Spoiler: show

@ Quin - Yes, you found the post I was referring to.

@ Sloonei - If you are trying to read more on a person that you could be troubled about, you don't make it obvious. Duh!

The players I will be looking at today are:
Mac - simply b/c other players are finding him suspicious and I seem to be missing the hype. I need to reread him.
Lorab - b/c (no offence) I always see her playstyle as sneaky and bad and I need to decide if it's real or just my predisposition.
Quin - b/c he replaced a non-participant before replacing Glor who also said he cannot participate. I imagine a baddie would be replaced before a civ.
and
....not sure who else atm.


I agree with Lorab and Sloon about Glor. I think we ought to see more of him before we decide to boot him out with allthe RL stuff going on there.

But lots of people have named Elohcin as a suspect. SVS was far from the most prominent. I feel like tracing this death back to Eloh involves lots of twisting of things. Sure, there's a connection, but I wouldn't call it a big or obvious one that would warrant that sort of motive.

Sorry for not being clear, although not actually sure where the confusion is. If a player names someone else, and that someone else is mafia, then the mafia as a team might kill them to get rid of that suspicion. That's all I meant. I think that kill philosophy is more likely in a speed game. Basically, SVS named Elo as suspect. If Elo were mafia, then Elo's team might kill SVS as a result of SVS suspecting mafia. Also, mafia could kill SVS to frame Elo, if Elo were not on the team. Trying to decide which is more likely.

I think these two posts deserve a repeat. Also in reaction to what JJJ said on the subject. He's right. If I were bad, I would have killed him Sorry JJJ. But if I were bad this game....I would see you as a risk b/c you seem less stable this game. Usually when I am bad and you are good, you are helpful to keep around for a while. You run the thread and it usually works in favor of the baddies b/c by mere chance, it's more likely for the thread to be wrong about who they think is bad in the beginning of the game. I'm not saying you are an unhelpful civ, by no means. You are very helpful. I am not sure I am explaining myself very well.

I'd love to stick around and read the last page I need to catch up but I get to go sit at a ball field all day while my daughter gets team pictures and then has a game. And then there will be down time in between. I still have to workout and make our lunches before I go and I am cutting it close on time. I hope y'all enjoy your day and I will be back this evening/late afternoon. Perhaps I can catch up on my phone...maybe.

Elohcin looked like she had to work hard to come up with suspicion to cast upon LoRab here. Eloh highlighted that LoRab post saying it needed repeating, but I can't figure out why. Indeed the two posts she highlighted were sort of in opposition, or at least they became that way in time -- Sloonei wasn't a fan of that LoRab post. This looks like Elohcin just cramming LoRab's name into the post a few times to fill space. I don't think that's necessarily a bad sign.

Spoiler: show

I like Sloonei's new take on the whole matter. Not only b/c it is better for me personally, but because it make sense. And I do think Lorab has been a sneaky sneak this game. I said as much yesterday or sometime.

I am not sure who I will vote yet. But I have to get my head out of mafia for a few hours.

Elohcin specifically elected to stand beside Sloonei against LoRab. I think that's more meaningful than it would have been if she'd gone against LoRab independently. That means she wants Sloonei to share in the consequences of a potential LoRab lynch with her -- something that is less likely to benefit her if LoRab is her team mate and more likely to benefit her if LoRab is not. Decent look.

A more substantive exchange with LoRab

I think Elohcin's responses to LoRab look pretty similar to her responses to me. She is refuting the base premises of the argument, telling a different story about what a Baddie Elohcin might be, and turning the accusation against her counterwagon. I think that's another decent look.

~~~

LoRab:

Spoiler: show

LoRab, do you have any suspects at the moment apart from INH?

None strong enough to talk about. Pings here and there. But most folks are reading neutral or civ to me.

Would you care to at least name the weaker ones, even if they're strictly vibe-based?

I have a weak ping from Dom for accusing MP of buttering up (I think Sloonei mentioned this before...someone did...I noticed it, as wel) because of his place on a rainbow list. It struck me as paranoid, and I think Dom's game is more paranoid as baddie than it is as civ.

Elo isn't sitting right. I don't have any good reason for this one, really just gut and tone.

Those are the 2 that keep popping up. There are also a bunch of players that I don't know well enough to know how to read their posts, so there are a lot of question marks on my imaginary spreadsheet.

We have an official outbreak of vaguentery. Lots of vague reads in this thread from multiple people.

Spoiler: show

Going out for the afternoon and evening to celebrate the fact that I've stayed alive for another year (aka my birthday) and a friend's album release--no idea how much I'll be able to check in.

I'm keeping my vote where it is.

INH's response to my asking for a reaction to Epi's death felt overly defensive, and his posts today have a cornered baddie vibe in my reading of them. He is dismissive of what has been said about him in a way that seems as if it is meant to discredit those who suspect him--the whole idea that anyone who suspects him for his posts is reading his posts wrong just doesn't sit right with me. Also, that while he seems bent on discrediting Sloonei, he falls short of accusing him--which just doesn't ring true to me if he really feels like a case is being fabricated.

Also, he keeps talking about how we should be looking at the Scotty voters, when I believe, especially early on, that mafia stay away from voting for what they know to be mislynches. It's too easy to connect them. They start the bandwagons by sowing the seeds (sorry to mix metaphors), they keep the bandwagon going, but they don't vote that way--they let the civies do that for them.

In related news, does anyone have a screen shot of the day 1 poll?

All that said, I'm really curious what INH thinks of Elo at this point.

This prompt looks kind of arbitrary out of context. LoRab, why was it important to you to know specifically what INH thought of Elohcin?

Spoiler: show

Svs strikes me as an off target for a kill. She didn't have a lot of posts (for her). And didn't seem to have any extraordinary opinions that would warrant a kill. She did have some points against mac (particularly that either rico or him was likely mafia) and points against elo. The question is if there is framing going on or if one of them is bad. This definitely makes elo look more suspish in my book. The question I have is if she's being framed; but would mafia use their first two kills in order to frame someone? I'm undecided on that question.

We can conclusively say Elohcin wasn't framed now, so that angle is out with this oft-discussed post. If LoRab is her team mate, that'd make this post a sort of reverse-frame -- they elected as a team to kill S~V~S. I kind of doubt part of that plan included "make Elohcin look worse immediately". It's worth discussing, given that there's a hint of WIFOM here.

This post started a lengthy exchange with Sloonei. I won't bring back all of those posts. I think LoRab held to her original position though -- that the S~V~S kill could implicate Elohcin but didn't necessarily have to. I shared this perspective with LoRab, so I'm not bothered.

~~~

Generally I think LoRab looks more authentic than not in her accusations of Elohcin. I don't really see the case others have presented that this is a high-probability bus scenario. I'd need to see that case spelled out in detail.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

indiglo has always been one of the most reasonable townies to communicate with. She and I have made a great team more than once. I'm surprised to be met with this kind of commentary -- that there is no alternative to my content between "foolish waste of time" and "bad".

I agree somewhat with this and I think you've made some reasonable points against her/her spot in the game, but I can also sympathize with her here because there is no suspicion being drawn from her as an individual. She is not suspicous herself, but her roster spot is. It's a very difficult position to be in when you're tasked with defending yourself. I do not agree with her assessment of the case as "nonsense" or "foolish" though.

What do you think of that moment from Elohcin I talked about at the start of my Glorfindel check related to indiglo? How about as it pertains to Glorfindel?

[LoRab]

Spoiler: show

Going out for the afternoon and evening to celebrate the fact that I've stayed alive for another year (aka my birthday) and a friend's album release--no idea how much I'll be able to check in.

I'm keeping my vote where it is.

INH's response to my asking for a reaction to Epi's death felt overly defensive, and his posts today have a cornered baddie vibe in my reading of them. He is dismissive of what has been said about him in a way that seems as if it is meant to discredit those who suspect him--the whole idea that anyone who suspects him for his posts is reading his posts wrong just doesn't sit right with me. Also, that while he seems bent on discrediting Sloonei, he falls short of accusing him--which just doesn't ring true to me if he really feels like a case is being fabricated.

Also, he keeps talking about how we should be looking at the Scotty voters, when I believe, especially early on, that mafia stay away from voting for what they know to be mislynches. It's too easy to connect them. They start the bandwagons by sowing the seeds (sorry to mix metaphors), they keep the bandwagon going, but they don't vote that way--they let the civies do that for them.

In related news, does anyone have a screen shot of the day 1 poll?

All that said, I'm really curious what INH thinks of Elo at this point.

This prompt looks kind of arbitrary out of context. LoRab, why was it important to you to know specifically what INH thought of Elohcin?

I enjoyed reading about myself, lol.

To answer your question, I asked about that because of INH's earlier post that the 2 people that looked worst coming out of the first lynch were Elo and Epi. Since we know, or can assume, that Epi was civ, I wanted to know what he thought of the other person he had mentioned. Because there was a good deal of focus on the back and forth between him and Epi, his post right after the night result, and his claim that he never really suspected Epi, just that he thought he looked more suspish--I wanted to know what he thought of the other player that he had mentioned in the same post, after he was shown to be wrong about one of them.

That he never answered that question (and I believe I asked it more than once), and therefore not addressing Elo, whom we now know to be bad, makes me think he may have been purposefully avoiding the subject.

[Tangrowth]

Hey folks, I've been busy with stuff. I'll try to be back before Night 3 ends, but no promises.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Generic JJJ post about baddie interactions -- Elohcin and MacDougall

Elohcin:

Spoiler: show

going for self preservation here...

What's ya beef with the bird with teeth?

Nome...it was one of two
..him or Mac. No need.

When Eloh placed her self-preservation vote on Day 1, she had two equal choices in the tally: BWT and Mac. She chose BWT. Take that however you may.

Spoiler: show

@ Quin - Yes, you found the post I was referring to.

@ Sloonei - If you are trying to read more on a person that you could be troubled about, you don't make it obvious. Duh!

The players I will be looking at today are:
Mac - simply b/c other players are finding him suspicious and I seem to be missing the hype. I need to reread him.
Lorab - b/c (no offence) I always see her playstyle as sneaky and bad and I need to decide if it's real or just my predisposition.
Quin - b/c he replaced a non-participant before replacing Glor who also said he cannot participate. I imagine a baddie would be replaced before a civ.
and
....not sure who else atm.

Seems like a pointless pledge to read more into Mac. I don't recall if this ever happened; I guess we'll see.

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I am interested to see what Elo has to say.

I am placing a vote for spirityo.

Why are you placing a vote for Sprit? Just curious.

I guess this is it. She didn't look invested in this question, understandably. I'm not sure there's much to say here about Mac either way.

~~~

MacDougall:

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Elohcin-Ricochet-Dom-???

I'm operating on that theory right now.

Go on?

Semi-relevant.

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Thank you for waving your wand again Merlin.

Whatever that means.

Talk about Elohcin.

I have not looked at, thought of, analysed or so much as read a single Elohcin post. If you genuinely want me to, give me some context please. I don't think you do though. You didn't even say please.

I prompted Mac to talk about Eloh and got nothing. I directed him to my large ISO/case against her, and eventually he said this:

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Any thoughts on Elohcin? Bueller?

The only thing I thought was alignment-indicative of the case against her from JJJ was when he mentioned being scummates with her twice and how she knew him to operate differently. I think it's worth noting, but the rest of the case doesn't compel me at all.

I'm also not a fan of the LoRab suspicions and the INH suspicions. I think both of them have been contributing genuinely and I haven't seen any substantive red flags from either of them.

Honestly, every vote besides the Rico ones feels a bit desperate, even for Day 2.

It is bizarre how much I am agreeing with you but I agree with every single word.

He agreed with Zebra's lack of inspiration in my case, but didn't actually say anything about it. Okay.

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I am interested to see what Elo has to say.

I am placing a vote for spirityo.

This Eloh mention looks arbitrary. She was being discussed some earlier by Sloonei, LoRab, and I. Mac didn't share any personal thoughts.

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Honestly if spirityo or glorfy aren't up for being lynched I don't really feel strongly about LoRab or Elo cases so I am going to need some good summarisation to compel me one way or the other.

Didn't feel strongly about lynching Elohcin or LoRab.

Eventually Mac did vote for Elohcin. I'm not sure exactly when that happened. Mac, please come tell us.

~~~

I'm left feeling uninspired. He barely acknowledged Elohcin in this game even when specifically asked to talk about her. I'll say this looks a bit worse than most of the checks preceding it.