MAD MAX: GAME OVER

[MacDougall]

Badfindel

[Glorfindel]

INH, do you think Zebra and Mac are bad?

I dunno. In my eyes, Zebra looks more opportunistic than Mac. Criticizing me for being wishy washy and influencing people in the wrong direction after self-voting and loudly proclaiming her own aggressive ambivalence isn't a good look. Don't get me wrong, I don't think ambivalence isn't some no-fail scumtell, but I consider hypocrisy to be as close as you can get in this game.

Do I want to vote for her D4? I dunno. Ask me on Day 4.

Pretend you have a vigilante shot right now and you must use it on this Night 3. Who gets shot?

Glorfindel. He came into this game very buddy-buddy with you and proceeded to mainly ignore the growing suspicion from your end. I think he still wants to pretend you two are simpatico. Looking at the Lorab voters, he's the one who strikes me to be the hobo hitching a ride on the bandwagon.

Given that there are five LR voters, and I can safely remove myself and Elo from the pool of suspects, that leaves me with Sloonei, Wilgy, and good ol' Glorf.

Sloonei strikes me as sincere, Wilgy is Wilgy being Wilgy like only Wilgy can be, and Glorf has done nothing to dissuade any of my suspicion.

I think it's stupid to think that Lorab voter = scum, but it's also naive to think that there wasn't a last ditch effort from Toecutter's gang to save their eponymous member.

I'd like to take issue with this post on a number of levels. I utterly reject the assertion that I "came into this game very buddy-buddy with you (Jay)". Unlike some others, I do my best to treat everyone I encounter in these games with the utmost respect and Jay is no exception. In the short time we've been playing together, I'm satisfied in his ability to read me accurately and for what it's worth, yes, I do admire him greatly for his ability in these games. Indeed I would assert that your accusing me of this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black:

THOUGHTS ON PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT RICOCHET OR MAC:

I'm liking Neil Hartley a hell of a lot. I'd really appreciate if his agent, JaggedJimmyJay, could continue booking him for the foreseeable future.

As for my LoRab vote at the last EoD, I have addressed this matter in my last post, I trust it will allay your concerns.

I note also that you ranked me in the very middle of your yellow/amber reads on only Day 2 and then after you come under heat from a unanimous GTH reading today, you post this accusation against me. Personally, I don't think this is a particularly good look at all.

[Tangrowth]

Hello! So I'm here coding and will try to at least quickly catch up to stay current in the thread, but then I should leave again.

[Tangrowth]

zebra, is there anything I can do to engage with you or address your suspicion of me short of my being lynched? Because I'd prefer that not to happen.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

Dom's taking a very minimalist approach to this game.

Not that this is a bad thing-- but I'm just curious why you think this.

You must be aware to some extent that your approach this game is narrower in focus than average. What happened to your suspicion of MP?

I wouldn't say that.
And I've addressed that. I don't think it is likely MP and Eloh were teammates.

Possible? Yes. Likely? No.

Dom's taking a very minimalist approach to this game.

Not that this is a bad thing-- but I'm just curious why you think this.

Your posts are short.

Are my posts known for being long?

LoRab, what am I paranoid about?

I answered this in a prior post, but your claim that MP buddied you I don't think was ever substantiated and his putting you on a rainbow list didn't suffice for me. Also, your tone in responding to questions asked of you and mentions of things that have been noticed are of a tone that seems overly defensive, in a paranoid sort of way.

Why am I your number 3 bad read? Because, again, you have not said a single thing about why you find me suspicious.

#1) So... what am I paranoid about? What am I afraid of? What am I worried about? You didn't answer that question.
#2) He... buddied me? He suddenly agreed with me and gave me a civ read with zero reasoning?
#3) I absolutely gave reasons. Your suspicion of me is hollow, has no substance, and has no internal logic. You smeared me, attempted to get others to make the case for you. I outlined this earlier.


@Mac
Anytime you want to tell me, Mac, why I dropped so low on your reads when you suspect Zebra for the exact same thing is a good thing!

1. You are paranoid about people suspecting you. You are worried about others being suspicious of you. I have said that several times in different ways.

2. I do not think he buddied you, but it's possible I read his posts differently than you. Can you give examples of specific posts in which you perceive him to have buddied you?

3. No, you did not give reasons. Unless your entire case is that I suspect you. Which, is really not a case. Yes, I suspect you--I have given reasons and have explained those reasons. That you don't get them does not mean that there is no internal logic. Also, that I suspect you, even if I am wrong, does not mean that I'm bad--at all. I think you are overstating the posts I've made about you--and every post you make like this, accusing me of smearing you and having a false case, make you seem increasingly suspicious.

And where did I try to get others to make a case for me?

And I apologize if I read as defenses what you apparently meant as accusations.

Your entire suspicion of me seems to be based on the fact that I vaguely suspect you. Am I wrong in that assessment?

Because that's kind of the actual definition of a switcheroo.

1) Citation Needed. Also contradictory. First I ignored your post, then I am too paranoid about your post. Pick one.
2) My only interaction in the entire game with him was "you're bad" and he listed me as his #2 civvie with zero explanation. What else would you like to know? He was overly kind to my suspicion. He avoided taking any issue with it. He lacked a coherent voice in the thread-- he has since adopted a more serious one. He said that I contributed more to Romance of Three Kingdoms than any other player-- a straight falsehood. suddenly I became a manipulator to him, but that was never mentioned again. My case against MP is well documented and before the Eloh flip, I was ready to vote for him today too. HOWEVER, in my read through of this, I found a post I find... intriuging. Stay tuned.
3) Yes. I did.

My suspicion of you is based on the fact that you have zero internal logic in your suspicion of me.

Woah, hold the phone here. I don't think you're misrepresenting me purposefully; I think we're reading two different threads. Either way there is a misunderstanding between me and you; consequently I am compelled to offer my comments on some of what you've said.

As has been usual for me this game, my responses are in sarcastic orange.

=============================================================================================

Regarding this comment: "My only interaction in the entire game with him was "you're bad" and he listed me as his #2 civvie with zero explanation."

A few things:
1) You're right that we had little interaction before I called you a town read on my rainbow, but we actually had two bits of interaction, this post in addition to the aforementioned "you're bad" one. I don't think this really changes your point at all, but just wanted to throw it out there.
2) More significantly, I didn't interact with literally every player in the game before making my first rainbow. In fact, you were far from the only one I had little to no interaction with. That doesn't mean my making a determination that you seemed town so far is buddying, nefarious, or even without reason. You were posting and had content to judge. So I judged it.
3) Here is the Rainbow #1 in question. You said I listed you as my #2 civvie. That isn't correct; I wasn't ordering people within groups. It was way too early in the game for that. Off the top of my head I believe I didn't list people within groups on my #2 Rainbow either but then I switched it for #3 subsequent and made sure to specify it in #3. At least I think I did. If I didn't, that's my bad. Anyway, you can see that whenever I don't rank people within groups that my within-groups are always listed alphabetically; this is to avoid confusion on that front. So you were one of many slight town reads I had at that time, not my #2 civvie. Sorry if that was unclear.

=============================================================================================

Regarding this comment: "He was overly kind to my suspicion. He avoided taking any issue with it."

Overall I would agree with your assessment that I was calm in response to it. I have given explanation for that, I believe. I am also, despite being engaged in a tight deadline for this paper project that I'm super nervous about, less stressed in my life than I have been nearly all of the time the last few years. That helps.

I wouldn't necessarily say I avoided taking any issue with it; I tried to engage you multiple times on it to understand what you were saying. I even asked you what your deal was.

=============================================================================================

Regarding this comment: "He said that I contributed more to Romance of Three Kingdoms than any other player-- a straight falsehood."

You're exaggerating a bit here. To be fair though, I guess I exaggerated as well, even with that "nearly" qualifier. Anyway, despite the exaggeration I wouldn't say it was an outright falsehood. The point I was making to Elo in that post still stands. You weren't hiding behind roleplay in that game at all; you were doing the opposite.

=============================================================================================

Regarding this comment: suddenly I became a manipulator to him, but that was never mentioned again.

This is the one I see the biggest misunderstanding with. Where in that post did I call you manipulative?

I have never once even mafia read you in this entire game. If I thought you were being manipulative, I would have called you on it. That's not what I did.

I expressed frustration that I felt like you weren't even giving me a chance (and you can see my multiple attempts to engage you on it in my ISO before that post you reference here), and I asked Jay why he thought you didn't seem manipulative. Note that Jay specifically said "I don't really think his attacks on MP appear manipulative." I thus asked him why not because, while I still GTH was reading you town, it was becoming increasingly difficult for me to judge because I felt like you didn't care about engaging me or changing your mind.

I did NOT say it was becoming increasingly difficult for me to see you as non-manipulative, even.

So I dispute that I ever called you manipulative beacuse I have never even thought your behavior seemed more manipulative than genuine at any point this game.

[Tangrowth]

<SNIP>
Elohcin is utterly uninspiring. I have had trouble reading her in the past, but I'm not letting that influence my judgment. She deserves a strong mafia read at this point because she has the most incentive of anyone to kill Epignosis; despite her continued confusion, she appears to be making no effort to engage with or understand anyone else's views whatsoever. I also find the fact that she finds Jay civilian suddenly now dubious given that she seemed to suspect him earlier for potentially hiding behind his roleplaying even though he evidently was not doing so and continues not to do so. I think all of her posts are incredibly easy for her to maintain as mafia, and her tone is completely underwhelming and consistently devoid of emotion, coming across as manufactured. She is definitely my biggest mafia read; I don't have any reason to read her as town.

I am confused by this... uninspiring as a vote or uninspiring as a civ?

What do you mean uninspiring as a vote? I could interpret that two different ways.

But I think my answer is uninspiring as a civ. Her behavior didn't inspire any reaction from me to believe she had any remotely town mindset. Does that answer your question?

[Tangrowth]

Badfindel

What about his recent posts appears bad to you?

[Tangrowth]

Okay, I have to go now. BBL. Probably won't be back until tomorrow.

[DrWilgy]

Why do I have votes?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Why do I have votes?

Because.

Inspire me to move it.

[Scotty]

Why is JJJ confirmed good?

I mean, I think he looks pretty good regardless but isn't there a baddie that can survive their first NK attempt?

[Scotty]

I'm actually not going to comb through most of Day 2. I wish the poll thread had the order of the votes, but Wilgy's vote parallels with Elo.

Hard to do a voting analysis unless I spend an hour comparing time stamps from 30 pages ago, and my time is limited as a toddler's vocabulary is limited.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Why is JJJ confirmed good?

I mean, I think he looks pretty good regardless but isn't there a baddie that can survive their first NK attempt?

There was only one kill attempt. Either I am my bad and my team shot me on purpose, or I was the standard night kill target. Are inclined to entertain the former?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

indiglo's play in this game is farther removed from her "meta" than anything I've seen in a while. It's like the opposite. I'm torn on what that actually means, but the difference is severe. If her town meta is a sunny forecast, this game is a torrential downpour.

[Sloonei]

MovingPictures
Quin

zebra
Jay
motel room
Mac

DrWilgy
Dom
Insertnamehere
indiglo
Glorfindel

sprityo

LoRab

A lot of this is fuzzy and things are subject to change greatly depending on LoRab's alignment. That's where I want to start tomorrow and we'll see where things go from there.

These rankings are also subject to change whenever. I'm still processing things. I'm gonna step away from the thread for a while in a minute.

This is offensively yellow. I am offended.

I am uncertain.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I am uncertain.

So what. Take sides.

[Sloonei]

Should I switch to Lorab?

yes

hot dog

Does "hot dog" mean this is noteworthy, this is suspicious, this is damning, what?

Those three things all mean the same thing in my book.

[Sloonei]

Let's talk about the two people who got 5 Bads and 0 Goods.

[Sloonei]

I am uncertain.

So what. Take sides.

I will later. Those were my reads in the immediate aftermath of Elohcin's flip. My head was spinning but I wanted something for people to reference. I'd be a liar if I pretended to have more confidence than I did.

[Sloonei]

Let me update my rainbow, then I'll have to leave for a bit again. I'll respond to whatever else you all want me to sometime later tonight, just let me know.

Talk to me about indiglo when you can. I don't think she's a good lynch, at least until she has the opportunity to invest herself and provide us with some meat of her own. You didn't play (I think?), so hopefully you understand, but the Elohcin side of the case against her is reminiscent of when I was lynched in Red vs Blue because Scotty painted me as his teammate. indiglo's lively demeanor went out the window, and I think it's a sign of legitimate frustration from a townie.

Yeah exactly, it was all Scotty's fault!

[Sloonei]

I didn't expect INH to sweep the baddie reads. That's interesting. He has fallen from grace more than perhaps anyone else.

Never trust someone who hates the movie Persona. To be honest, I was never really graceful in the first place, what with the Sloonei/Epignosis kerfuffle.

I really don't like how Zebra and Mac sold me out quicker than a sack of potatoes at a farmers market. It looks like they realized that we were all on the same leaky boat, and they tossed me out to slow down the sinking.

I'd like to try and get some reasoning as to why I'm apparently now the unanimous baddie choice. Specifically, stuff that A: Mac and Zebra aren't both already guilty of, and B: don't stem from me being noncommital about Elo. I'm noncommital about 90% of players. That reads scum for most people, but I personally find super duper strongly held beliefs to be more fishy than more moderate stances. As bisexual agnostic, I do feel I need to speak up from time to time to fiercely defend my right to ambivalence.

This is an interesting response to being read as bad. He's immediately throwing Mac and Zebra under the bus. First saying they're "selling him out" and then accusing them of doing all the same things he's done.

[Sloonei]

OK. First time I've done this...at least with colors. And I think the last time I did anything like this was in Apocalypse Mafia, which was a really, really long time ago--and the couple of people from that game who are still around aren't playing this game. Glancing at the game (because I couldn't remember if Dom was playing yet then, and wanted to refresh my memory), it was before I changed my screen name, I totally info dumped (it wasn't against the rules yet), and dead posts were much less off topic than they are now). I should probably not point out that I was evil in that game--and I think that was the game in which I was considered a confirmed civ for much of the game, even thought I wasn't. Good times. Ah, memories.

And I am going for the full spectrum on this rainbow (except indigo, because I want to challenge myself to not have middle ground.


INH
Dom
Wilgy
Indiglo
Sprityo
Sloonei
a2thezebra
MP
Mac
Quin
glorf
motel room
JJJ
LoRab

I'm so lonely. Why am I so lonely?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Let's talk about the two people who got 5 Bads and 0 Goods.

I thought it wasn't surprising for sprityo and it was for INH. I think it sort of affirms my feelings about sprityo, that he's one of two things and nothing else:

1. The obvious baddie he looks like.
2. Classic low-hanging fruit.

INH sweeping the bad reads seemed to affirm the gradual decline in his posture as the game progressed, my own read included. You spent a lot of time going after him; you've called him a yellow read now. What are your feelings?

[Sloonei]

What do you want from me, Sloonei?

Digging back I found this old classic line.

Putting my vote on insertname for now.

Oh damn. I didn't notice that.

I said that in the champs finale and got roasted. I was bad. I haven't personally observed this as a trendy baddie comment, but I know numerous good players who consider it gospel.

I was watching that game, that's where I picked up looking out for it.

Either one of you care to elaborate on what's so bad about this sentence? I'm itching to get on board here.

[Sloonei]

Let's talk about the two people who got 5 Bads and 0 Goods.

I thought it wasn't surprising for sprityo and it was for INH. I think it sort of affirms my feelings about sprityo, that he's one of two things and nothing else:

1. The obvious baddie he looks like.
2. Classic low-hanging fruit.

INH sweeping the bad reads seemed to affirm the gradual decline in his posture as the game progressed, my own read included. You spent a lot of time going after him; you've called him a yellow read now. What are your feelings?

I'm feeling more orange than yellow now. Still getting caught up and I have a few other things to do today, but I'll try to get some more elaborate thoughts in the thread when I can. I'd like for people to talk a lot about him today. I agreed earlier that his reaction to my case was pretty in line with what I perceived as his town meta in Red vs Blue, but I don't think it was definitive by any means and that's still all he really has going for him in my book. I don't see a convincing townie in any of his posts.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Either one of you care to elaborate on what's so bad about this sentence? I'm itching to get on board here.

I expanded on it here.

[Sloonei]

What do you want from me, Sloonei?

Digging back I found this old classic line.

Putting my vote on insertname for now.

Oh damn. I didn't notice that.

I said that in the champs finale and got roasted. I was bad. I haven't personally observed this as a trendy baddie comment, but I know numerous good players who consider it gospel.

What's the logic behind that attitude / question coming from a more likely mafia than town mindset?

I'll explain my own circumstance from that game for context:

I spent pretty much the entire game under fire from one source, the player coolkid (eventual tournament champion). I fought him at every turn for days and days, never backing down, trying to stay poised under intense pressure. Eventually I dropped that bomb, not realizing it would be a mistake: what do you want from me, man?

It helped change my scenario from "JJJ under pressure" to "JJJ in the noose".

The argument they made against me, which was probably accurate, was that the question represents a sense of desperation wrought of the wrong mindset. They see a baddie who is fighting tooth and nail for every inch of breathing room in the thread, desperate to earn town reads. It was the symbolic cracking of the JJJ eggshell -- no longer was I showing an earnest interest in reading the motivations of my detractor, but instead I was revealing that what I really wanted most was for him to change his mind. That's more scum than town.

this answers the question i just asked.

linki: oh thanks

[Sloonei]

Bleh. I wanted Wilgy to say something.

DrWilgy

I'll join this. He's still one of my weakest reads.

DrWilgy

Why @ both of these votes.

i'll make this post and assume this question has already been answered.

[Sloonei]

Why do I have votes?

Because.

Inspire me to move it.

Oh never mind. I guess we're waiting for something before we get an explanation. At least for your vote. MP's vote is just a tag-along.

[LoRab]

OK. First time I've done this...at least with colors. And I think the last time I did anything like this was in Apocalypse Mafia, which was a really, really long time ago--and the couple of people from that game who are still around aren't playing this game. Glancing at the game (because I couldn't remember if Dom was playing yet then, and wanted to refresh my memory), it was before I changed my screen name, I totally info dumped (it wasn't against the rules yet), and dead posts were much less off topic than they are now). I should probably not point out that I was evil in that game--and I think that was the game in which I was considered a confirmed civ for much of the game, even thought I wasn't. Good times. Ah, memories.

And I am going for the full spectrum on this rainbow (except indigo, because I want to challenge myself to not have middle ground.


INH
Dom
Wilgy
Indiglo
Sprityo
Sloonei
a2thezebra
MP
Mac
Quin
glorf
motel room
JJJ
LoRab

I'm so lonely. Why am I so lonely?

I have a basically neutral read of you. You seem civ in many ways, and your general tone seems civ, but you also worked really hard to try to lynch me last round, which could be an attempt to save Elo. You and zebra could really be the same color, as you're both more or less null reads for me at this point.

[Sloonei]

Why is JJJ confirmed good?

I mean, I think he looks pretty good regardless but isn't there a baddie that can survive their first NK attempt?

I had the tiniest bit of doubt about his confirmed status, but the host post says "Johnny the Boy" attempted to kill him, so that's a pretty strong confirmation.

You replaced sprityo, who was read as scum by 5 out of the 5 players who did the GTH exercise last night. It would have been 6 out of 6 had I been there. How do you feel about that?

[Sloonei]

OK. First time I've done this...at least with colors. And I think the last time I did anything like this was in Apocalypse Mafia, which was a really, really long time ago--and the couple of people from that game who are still around aren't playing this game. Glancing at the game (because I couldn't remember if Dom was playing yet then, and wanted to refresh my memory), it was before I changed my screen name, I totally info dumped (it wasn't against the rules yet), and dead posts were much less off topic than they are now). I should probably not point out that I was evil in that game--and I think that was the game in which I was considered a confirmed civ for much of the game, even thought I wasn't. Good times. Ah, memories.

And I am going for the full spectrum on this rainbow (except indigo, because I want to challenge myself to not have middle ground.


INH
Dom
Wilgy
Indiglo
Sprityo
Sloonei
a2thezebra
MP
Mac
Quin
glorf
motel room
JJJ
LoRab

I'm so lonely. Why am I so lonely?

I have a basically neutral read of you. You seem civ in many ways, and your general tone seems civ, but you also worked really hard to try to lynch me last round, which could be an attempt to save Elo. You and zebra could really be the same color, as you're both more or less null reads for me at this point.

Sorry about that, I really didn't like that one post you made

[LoRab]

OK. First time I've done this...at least with colors. And I think the last time I did anything like this was in Apocalypse Mafia, which was a really, really long time ago--and the couple of people from that game who are still around aren't playing this game. Glancing at the game (because I couldn't remember if Dom was playing yet then, and wanted to refresh my memory), it was before I changed my screen name, I totally info dumped (it wasn't against the rules yet), and dead posts were much less off topic than they are now). I should probably not point out that I was evil in that game--and I think that was the game in which I was considered a confirmed civ for much of the game, even thought I wasn't. Good times. Ah, memories.

And I am going for the full spectrum on this rainbow (except indigo, because I want to challenge myself to not have middle ground.


INH
Dom
Wilgy
Indiglo
Sprityo
Sloonei
a2thezebra
MP
Mac
Quin
glorf
motel room
JJJ
LoRab

I'm so lonely. Why am I so lonely?

I have a basically neutral read of you. You seem civ in many ways, and your general tone seems civ, but you also worked really hard to try to lynch me last round, which could be an attempt to save Elo. You and zebra could really be the same color, as you're both more or less null reads for me at this point.

Sorry about that, I really didn't like that one post you made

No need to be sorry. But you also, I hope, can understand that I'm going to have some vague suspicion of you for it.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

insertnamehere

[Sloonei]

To kick off the INH discussion for today, I'll re-open my Day 2 case because he still has not really addressed it.

Spoiler: show

If MacDougall can't kill you, then he can't kill you. And if he can kill you, all he has to do is...refrain from doing so. If you were good, you've opened yourself up to being killed to set up MacDougall.

Not helpful.

This.

Rico has set up a very risky system here. He's intentionally put a massive target on his back. If neither Rico or Mac are bad, all the mafia has to do is kill Rico, and they get a free lynch of Mac. This same logic gives Mac a smokescreen to hide behind if he is, in fact, bad. In both scenarios, Rico = Dead N1.

It seems like such a categorically poor move for Rico that it essentially leaves me with two options. A. He has some sort of secret info or an ulterior motive for voting Mac Day 1. B. He knows for sure that the target on his back won't hurt him because he's scum.

Uhhh

Free lunch!

This was from yesterday, on my phone on the train. Epi had the most concise cut-down of the rico\mac bickering and this bloke appeared to piggyback off it, but with an odd confident "two option" stance which I was not a fan of.

Care to elaborate on why you aren't a fan?

Just like, the vibe. Mabo.

Welp.

I do not like either of INH's posts in this exchange. I think the explanation motel room gives initially is sufficient enough to get a follow up response out of INH if he wants to provide one, but instead he just ignores it and asks him to elaborate. To be fair, motel room doesn't really do this, but I still think there's enough there for INH to work with if he really wants to defend himself here. Instead he just sighs and moves on. It gives me a vibe of a player who's not prepared to defend himself against what may be a genuine accusation.

Spoiler: show

The two people who came out of Day 1 looking worse for me are Elo and Epi, those two lovebirds.

Elo's Scotty vote and "self-preservation" was weird to me. Same thing with Epi's ultimately useless last second switcheroo where he jumped off of the Scotty train mere seconds before it crashed into a wall. I'd really like to see his explanation for his vote because right now it just rings as hollowly opportunistic.

I learned my lesson that time that INH did indeed mean to say "worse" instead of "worst" here, but that still doesn't answer the question of why Epi's vote change on Day 1 was suspicious. But what really gets me about this post is this post later on where he claims to have never called Epi scum. LoRab's response sums it up well enough:

You didn't explicitly accuse him, true. But you implied suspicion. And to say, yeah--i didn't really suspect him, and he was just frustrating, quite honestly, doesn't make you look all that good.

Why is INH trying to back away from the reality of his read on Epignosis? I genuinely don't know what he's doing here, but it looks shady and I see no reason for him not to own his suspicion.

Here is his eulogy for Epignosis. I usually perk up when I see things like this. I see it as filler or fluff content, saying something for the sake of saying something. "Oh look, a townie died. For shame, they will be missed." It does nothing. And then what really bugs me is that later on, INH will try to pass this off like it's a substantive, game-related reaction to Epi's death and not just empty words:

Curious to see what Zebra and INH have to say now that Epi was killed by mafia. And highly unlikely, in a speed game, that mafia would kill one of their own night 1. So....wanting responses there.

I don't believe either me or Zebra called Epi mafia. We just wanted some kind of explanation for his D1 vote, and his pussyfooting around it was aggravating.

Plus, I already responded to his death here:

Epignosis went out like he played: frustratingly. RIP, and I wish you elected to answer a single question before you left this mortal coil. Guess it doesn't particularly matter now.

There ya go.

Now onto Rico's text wall.

It's pretty clear that LoRab is looking for some sort of analysis out of INH/zebra here, but INH instead says "What do you mean? I already did that!" and links us back to his eulogy. As if that's an analysis. And then we're supposed to move on to the next topic.

I am, of course, repeating myself with all of these points. I've already said all of these things on Day 2. But INH never adequately responded to any of them IMO. Maybe I'm being blind and unfair in that assessment, so I'll let others be the judge. Here are some of his responses:
Here, here, here, here, and here.

It's funny, looking at those 5 responses from INH now, I felt like that each got sequentially worse as he went along. I'll hold off on expanding on that thought for now because I want to hear what other people think, if they care. And of course, INH himself is free to respond to any of this.

That's just my Day 2 case in a nutshell. He's made plenty of other posts since then but I don't think I will get to them right now.

I will be putting my vote on him though.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Neil Hartley, stealing Sloonei's thunder and the ladies love it.

[Sloonei]

oh jeez we've got an RYM bandwagon forming.

[Sloonei]

OK. First time I've done this...at least with colors. And I think the last time I did anything like this was in Apocalypse Mafia, which was a really, really long time ago--and the couple of people from that game who are still around aren't playing this game. Glancing at the game (because I couldn't remember if Dom was playing yet then, and wanted to refresh my memory), it was before I changed my screen name, I totally info dumped (it wasn't against the rules yet), and dead posts were much less off topic than they are now). I should probably not point out that I was evil in that game--and I think that was the game in which I was considered a confirmed civ for much of the game, even thought I wasn't. Good times. Ah, memories.

And I am going for the full spectrum on this rainbow (except indigo, because I want to challenge myself to not have middle ground.


INH
Dom
Wilgy
Indiglo
Sprityo
Sloonei
a2thezebra
MP
Mac
Quin
glorf
motel room
JJJ
LoRab

I'm so lonely. Why am I so lonely?

I have a basically neutral read of you. You seem civ in many ways, and your general tone seems civ, but you also worked really hard to try to lynch me last round, which could be an attempt to save Elo. You and zebra could really be the same color, as you're both more or less null reads for me at this point.

Sorry about that, I really didn't like that one post you made

No need to be sorry. But you also, I hope, can understand that I'm going to have some vague suspicion of you for it.

I absolutely do. There's no way not to see a counterwagon against a lynched baddie as a suspicious move. It came from a genuine place, at least from me, but I'd be confused if we weren't looking at the people who voted you yesterday as suspects.

Speaking what did INH have to say about you before I made that case? Because prior to me opening my big fat mouth, yesterday was feeling like an undisputed Elohcin lynch. Her baddie teammates would be eager to hop on any other wagon that presented itself.

[Sloonei]

Dom finally has someone join him on the MP train, but now he's voting for indiglo.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

This is bringing back bad memories.

[Sloonei]

"What did INH have to say about LoRab before Sloonei opened his big fat mouth?"
First post where he addresses or mentions LoRab:

Curious to see what Zebra and INH have to say now that Epi was killed by mafia. And highly unlikely, in a speed game, that mafia would kill one of their own night 1. So....wanting responses there.

I don't believe either me or Zebra called Epi mafia. We just wanted some kind of explanation for his D1 vote, and his pussyfooting around it was aggravating.

Plus, I already responded to his death here:

Epignosis went out like he played: frustratingly. RIP, and I wish you elected to answer a single question before you left this mortal coil. Guess it doesn't particularly matter now.

There ya go.

Now onto Rico's text wall.

Just answering a direct question from LoRab. This post contains two of the biggest strikes against INH in my book, as covered in my big ass post above ("I never called Epi mafia." & "I already responded to Epi's death.").

His first real mention of her comes on Day 2, so there is some precedent prior to the Day 3 thing:

Voting for Rico, not only to save myself, but also because nothing said after Day 1 stopped him from being my top scum read. No misquoted, misinterpreted quote that Sloonei slaps in my face like a dead, rotting horse carcass is going to change that.

The case against me is poppycock. There, I said it.

People I'd like to ISO if, in fact, I survive the Day:

Lorab
Dom
motel room

Lorab and Dom I feel are falling into the trap of focusing so much on criticizing the way other people play that they are forgetting to actually provide anything of value themselves. I want to see if they can, in addition to giving it, also take it. Motel Room I feel has been townread by people for not a lot of reasons.

Let's see if he ever followed through or backed this claim up. I don't think it holds true for LoRab tbh, but that's just going off memory. Shortly after this he lists her as orange in his rainbow list.

And... that's it until this post, again piggybacking on someone else's case:

At this point, I'd be more likely to vote Lorab than Elo. I don't necessarily think that SVS was killed for some elaborate Elochin frame job, but Lorab's opportunistic bandwagon hoppery with him jumping on both my case and Elo's out of nowhere gets my goat to a larger degree than the case against Elo, which has gotten pretty stale over the days with less and less new evidence coming out against her.

Lorab is someone on my list of people I had planned to ISO, that I haven't gotten around to yet. Idk, maybe I'm just biased because he went after me for, in my subjective opinion, less than reasonable reasons.

And this post is really all he had to say about LoRab at all on Day 3. After this it was just quiet support for her bandwagon.

I'm still all ears if you want to ISO LoRab, INH. I'd like it if you could substantiate your claim about her from Day 2.

[Sloonei]

But wait, there's more!

INH, do you think Zebra and Mac are bad?

I dunno. In my eyes, Zebra looks more opportunistic than Mac. Criticizing me for being wishy washy and influencing people in the wrong direction after self-voting and loudly proclaiming her own aggressive ambivalence isn't a good look. Don't get me wrong, I don't think ambivalence isn't some no-fail scumtell, but I consider hypocrisy to be as close as you can get in this game.

Do I want to vote for her D4? I dunno. Ask me on Day 4.

Pretend you have a vigilante shot right now and you must use it on this Night 3. Who gets shot?

Glorfindel. He came into this game very buddy-buddy with you and proceeded to mainly ignore the growing suspicion from your end. I think he still wants to pretend you two are simpatico. Looking at the Lorab voters, he's the one who strikes me to be the hobo hitching a ride on the bandwagon.

Given that there are five LR voters, and I can safely remove myself and Elo from the pool of suspects, that leaves me with Sloonei, Wilgy, and good ol' Glorf.

Sloonei strikes me as sincere, Wilgy is Wilgy being Wilgy like only Wilgy can be, and Glorf has done nothing to dissuade any of my suspicion.

I think it's stupid to think that Lorab voter = scum, but it's also naive to think that there wasn't a last ditch effort from Toecutter's gang to save their eponymous member.

This post is a bit of a head scratcher and he seems a bit inconsistent. Glorfindel is scum because he's hitching a ride on the LoRab bandwagon. Okay. So are you.
But it's stupid to think that someone who votes for LoRab is scum. Because you did it, and you don't want to be suspected for it? But surely there's somebody on that wagon who's scum. And it must be Glorfindel. I'm not saying that's not a valid suspicion; we should all treat Glorfindel with the same level of skepticism that I am treating INH with right now. But in this post, INH seems to have one foot in both camps. It's not a good idea to call him suspicious for voting LoRab, but it is okay to call Glorfindel suspicious for voting LoRab.

And then this:

Because I thought Lorab was bad, and I harbored doubts about Elo's alignment.

Is having incorrect opinions now illegal?

I think it's stupid to think that Lorab voter = scum, but it's also naive to think that there wasn't a last ditch effort from Toecutter's gang to save their eponymous member.

So, I take it you now think LoRab is good?

I still think Sloonei's case makes sense, and I don't think any of my points against her were discredited, but I find it hard to justify going after her head after Elo flipped bad to the bone. So right now my opinion of LoRab is in limbo, and I'd rather target and investigate other suspects.

What points did you make against her, if you don't mind me asking? Because again, and I'm sorry if this is more arrogance from me, it looks like your vote was a complete piggybacking of the case that I made against her. You introduced no new points of your own against her as far as I can see.

[Sloonei]

That apology probably appears to be unnecessary snark. It is not. The apology is sincere. I don't want to appear like I'm dominated by ego, but it was an observation I couldn't ignore.

[Sloonei]

I assume this place will come alive the instant I leave again.

[Dom]

Let's talk about the two people who got 5 Bads and 0 Goods.

Indiglo replaced sprit? I keep losing track.

1. First, you ignored my posts. When you finally responded, your responses, all of them, have been overly defensive to the point of being paranoid about suspicion. Since when is low level suspicion bad?

2. I don't see how reading someone as civ is buttering up. Perhaps we have different meanings of the phrase.

3. So, like I said, you suspect me literally because I suspect you. And you don't seem to get the basis of my suspicion, which is mainly tone. The earlier post I read as defense, not accusation. To me, saying: you are totally wrong and this is a bad case is not at all an accusastion. I guess you meant it as such. That's totally not how I read it. In my mind, civs are wrong all the time and think through things in ways that are mysterious to me and seem out there--that doesn't mean they are bad--just wrong. Nowhere did you say that you thought I was fabricating a false case against you which made you think I was bad. So I didn't see any accusation in your post. As you at least claim was there.

I look forward to the intriguiging post.

So am I paranoid or ignoring posts? Those are not compatible.

What are all our thoughts on Dom?

I still think he looks town. I don't really think his attacks on MP appear manipulative. I see a person who is perceiving a strong parallel to RoTTK and is pursuing that angle diligently. The worst I could say is that he had a quiet Day 2. That's not a big issue to me. I'm not a fan of his isolated vote either I guess. Some people do that.

Why do you think they don't appear manipulative? It's becoming increasingly difficult for me to judge this fairly, I feel, given that I am the continued target of his accusations and I don't feel like he is even giving me a chance.

MP-- this is the post I linked to.
"Why do you think they don't appear manipulative?" is a straight implication that I am being manipulative.

What do you mean uninspiring as a vote? I could interpret that two different ways.

But I think my answer is uninspiring as a civ. Her behavior didn't inspire any reaction from me to believe she had any remotely town mindset. Does that answer your question?

That does.

[G-Man]

Indiglo replaced sprit? I keep losing track.

Scotty replaced Sprityo.

[LoRab]

@Sloonei: INH can't show evidence of my being critical of people for the way they play because I never did that. I still think he has not actually read any of my posts, because of that and because he has not answered direct questions that I have asked. At this point, I will be rather surprised if INH isn't bad. In fact, I shall vote in that direction.

@Dom: They are not incompatible. First, you ignored my posts. Then, after I called you out and you responded--and in posts since then--you have shown paranoia.

[MacDougall]

Who should I vote for?

Dom in answer to your question ... I am not sure what is shocking to you?

[Sloonei]

@Sloonei: INH can't show evidence of my being critical of people for the way they play because I never did that. I still think he has not actually read any of my posts, because of that and because he has not answered direct questions that I have asked. At this point, I will be rather surprised if INH isn't bad. In fact, I shall vote in that direction.

I agree, which is why I am asking him to substantiate his claim.

[Sloonei]

Who should I vote for?

Dom in answer to your question ... I am not sure what is shocking to you?

Scotty.