[ENDGAME] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

[Golden]

RIP bubbles and sorry.

[nutella]

Aw damn. Sorry.

[Sloonei]

I didn't know we could lynch townies. Sorry bubbles.

[fingersplints]

damn that sucks

[Scotty]

Ugh. Damn, Tiny really was being genuine.

Now I'm pissed. Thought we could be infallible.

[Scotty]

Putting that mislynch aside for a sec...this poll is playing some serious mind games..

I'm not quite sure how to go about it yet.

Thanks for making it 48 hours, Dom! That's a big help as I will be in a boat all day tomorrow

[nijuukyugou]

Ugh. Damn, Tiny really was being genuine.

Now I'm pissed. Thought we could be infallible.

Same Sorry, Bubbles.

[Scotty]

I'm gonna go ahead and vote for Bubbles. She is definitely my strongest baddie read at this point.

You. Why? You've posted three times in this days phase, none of which were involved in talking about your suspicions.

I'm also going to be looking at ninja, as per Sloonei's request, since she also bandwagon'd in.

But nutella...I'm getting hungry for your opinions, and your name isn't helping.

[fingersplints]

I wish...

to think

[nijuukyugou]

Gotta go with "to teach"

[Scotty]

Can someone check if these votes are changeable?

[nijuukyugou]

Response to Sloonei's accusations, as promised.

Sloonei survived a nightkill from team one, man. He isn't on it.

omg wait



that kind of throws a wrench in things.

I already voted Black Rock though, and I still want her gone. Otherwise I'd vote Bubbles today.

If yout theory about me being on team 1 has a wrench in it, can I ask again what you think of my theory about nijuu being partners with sig & g-man? I want to hear everyone's thoughts on this, really. Hey everyone, tell me whether you agree of that ninja blooper coulf be on Mafia Team 1 with sig and g-man!

I disagree :P

new nijuukyugou ISO, this time with tunnel vision turned on.
As I've mentioned in pretty much every post I've made since last night, my new concern is that Ninja's interactions with both G-man and sig (both dead Lloyd Webber team members) do not paint her in a very favorable light. This is a stark contrast to my original read of her, where was an overwhelming town read. I'm discarding my previous read entirely and starting anew. This theory is still in its early stages and I'm not entirely convinced of it myself, but it's something that absolutely warrants a closer look.

Spoiler: show

Oh good god, four pages on Day 0. Already gonna be a lot more talky than in Bible Mafia, I see. And the threat of more technicolor lists. Super :P

Comments on what's been commented on:
Voting newbie players on Day 1? I don't think I have much of an opinion on it. I don't actively avoid it, but I also don't actively go after new people in particular, as I do want them to stay. Hello, new people!
I'd like to see where these buddy-buddy so-called "truces" will end up (or is it just one "truce" between MP and his buddy?), but I personally think it's nothing right now.

That's all I can think of to say at the moment. No strong opinions on anyone just yet.

Gets he feet wet by commenting on a couple of issues in the game, but does not offer any particular reads on anyone, other than to say the "truce" thing between MP and Devin was "nothing", which amounts to, well, nothing.

Spoiler: show

Mmmmk somewhat caught up. I'd say remind me not to leave the thread for too long so I don't have 4 pages to read, but I'll inevitably do it again.

I don't get the Hedgeowl suspicion at all. She posted while catching up and gave her input on a couple main discussions. None of her posts look particularly bad to me, just kind of average minimal-but-sufficient participation. I guess I understood LC's point (though it was regarding SVS) about commenting on issues rather than players, but Hedgie gave her views on LC/Epi/SVS so that doesn't really apply. I don't know, she could be hiding behind that type of participation (I haven't played many games with her but isn't it kind of her norm?) but I just don't really see the reasons for suspecting her, they seem contrived.

I could see SVS as bad. I mean, SVS is always bad

Agreed (at least the part about Hedgeowl suspicion). I think it was good of TH to search her like he did, but I disagree that it's baddie behavior from her. I don't think his suspicion was contrived.

Dragon D. Luffy has been replaced by Cancucklehead. She cannot be lynched today.

what are you so scared of, little puppy?

You didn't witness the maelstrom of deceit that was Canucklehead in Roger Rabbit.

They still whisper about it in Toontown.

(Just kidding, Canuck - I was actually very excited to see your name!)

Consequently, my mafia game, which is often defined by a high volume of posts, will be affected this game. I will be much more likely to pop in less frequently, which will increase my already notoriously long posts probably much more so, and make my style seem more like a cross of Blooper-esque, Epi-esque, and MP-esque, rather than straight-up MP-esque combination of frequency and volume.

I'm an -esque!! I'm so touched

Blooper, you note in this post multiple "truces", but ask the question whether there is just one thereafter. Devin and I never agreed to a truce. Just wanted to clear that up.

You specifically note you have "no strong opinions". If that is the case, do you have weak opinions? If so, what are they?

Fair enough. I just saw a lot of (mostly jokingly it seems) buddy-buddy Day 0 stuff, so I figured I'd comment on it. I'm notoriously bad at getting lost in the first several days of larger games because of the sheer volume of people, so I'm trying a new thing called "comment about SOMETHING, whatever it is" to at least keep a placeholder. So far, not doing so hot. But hey, here I am!

As for my opinions (and the actual contributory points of this post), I have a few opinions. I never trust Epi, but damn I do love actually playing a game with him, and whatever my vibes are right now, I'm feeling all right about him today. This means that I think he's genuinely baddie hunting, and I think both of his suspicions of LC and SVS are fairly sound (I almost said interesting but I know better than to use that now :P). I think LC's response to Epi's going after him looks too defensive to me. I think my general view of SVS is that she gets defensive regardless of alignment, which makes her hard to read, but I agree with others (can't remember exactly who) that suddenly defending the whole "interesting" argument in the manner she did was suspicious. So, there's that.

I don't have a good read of the new people in here, but I'm glad to see some fresh meat (at least to the Syndicate). It certainly makes for some...fascinating gameplay.

Her response to MP here reads a little bit like backtracking/covering her tracks. She admits to misrepresenting (whether intentionally or not) the truth in regards to her earlier post about the truce discussion and also provides an excuse for herself to get off to a slow start. However, she then starts to provide a few reads. However however, as has been noted a bunch of times throughout this game, with two scum teams, the baddies should be doing about as much scum hunting as the townies in this game, so her observations that Epi 1.0 seemed to be "genuinely baddie hunting" and that "LC's response looks too defensive" could just as likely have been made by a baddie, presumably a non-Wildhorn one. The three names she mentions here (Epi, SVS, Long Con) were the three that everyone had an opinion of on Day 1, so it would have been nice to see Ninja dig a little deeper for reads here. Not feeling as good about this post as I was before, but that's gonna be a common theme right now. The next read she offers is on Cobalt, the other player everyone had an opinion of Day 1:

Spoiler: show

@Bass I was also a little weirded out by Cobalt implying that because he was super-civ important player in a previous game, then he is totally civ this game, but I forgot to mention it (I knew there was SOMETHING about SOME new person to me that I had seen). But for now I'd just like to keep my eye on him.

Do you believe he was trying to convince he was a civilian, or do you believe what he said about just wanting to let everyone know he's not a new player?

My vibe is that I think he's playing the civ card hard. A little too hard.

Spoiler: show

The bad news is, I've been without internet access since last night due to traveling, power outages, and, y'know, socially interacting with people that I've traveled to see in real life (might need to get my priorities in order). This means I haven't had much of a chance to read through the thread as much as I'd like before the poll ends (I am still socializing after all :P ) or go back and look at something like I promised someone (I can't even remember who I promised this to. Long day).

The good news is, for the first time in my mafia-playing career, I have decent suspicion from what I have been able to gather of all three of the top vote-getters in this thread, and I'm okay with voting any of them, which is...a miracle. The question is, who do I want to pick?

I have been able to read a bit. Cobalt's made me itchy, and I read over the last page and the opportunistic vote switch. I'd still like to analyze him more closely if I get the chance. SVS has been highly, HIGHLY defensive and has weirdly voted for herself, which is something I'm not used to (the self-voting, not the defensiveness), so slightly mixed feelings but very much leaning bad. But tonight, I think I want to make things...interesting. I also like Epi's case and interaction with LC - like it in the way that I think it points to LC as a baddie. Epi's a manipulative bastard, but he's a manipulative bastard giving me good vibes, and I wanna see what happens when I press the big red button that no one should press (and by that I mean make the votes closer right now).

So I'm gonna vote LC.

Linki - Silence broken!

I can't help but now read this post as her leaving the door open on all three lynch possibilities, creating the freedom for herself to vote any one of the three lynch candidates from that day.

You're damn right I gave myself freedom to do so It's been most enjoyable being able to vote for who I want and be right (except the last lynch).

The bigger middle paragraph where she runs through her reasoning about all three feels a bit contrived and doesn't seem to fit as well with her previous statement that she's excited to have "decent suspicion" of all three and is "okay with voting any of them". Immediately after saying this, she expresses that she's not actually okay with voting Cobalt, waffles a bit on SVS, and ultimately settles on Long Con because she "likes Epi's case". I feel like a town Ninja would not have been so quick to make a decision here, even with changeable votes.

Town Ninja is quite relaxed with her votes

Her later comments about doing it for the "interesting reactions" also now comes back to me as not particularly fitting with the tone of this post, as it is suggested here that she at least feigned careful reasoning before voting, and was not just doing it to provoke others. Here it is:

Spoiler: show

@ Sloonei I've played with someone who would always vote for themselves after to many people became suspicious I don't think it is a good mafia method but one person has in the past fooled me bydoing that and I've seen two others do the same, it is a mindgame which always makes me think they are mafia trying to make themselves seem like civilians.


Nijuuk if your wary of SVS why not vote for her? I'm not understanding your vote

Because I wanted to make it interesting. I'm wary of all three of the top candidates and am okay with any and all getting votes. (PS you can call me Nijuu or Blooper if you want)

I am no longer buying this excuse. When I asked her about it, she responded affirmatively:

Also would you say things have been made more interesting by your LC vote, Blooperstranger?

Oh, quite! It's garnered some good reactions.

But then it took her a few days to follow up on it, and when she did there wasn't really much evidence to back up the claim:

Spoiler: show

In general, after my LC vote Day 1, people seemed to flip out and start changing votes, but that is often the norm here on TS with changeable votes. However, it was specific reactions that got my attention. First, it gave me (and others in their analyses) my first real ping of sig, who was the first to freak out and try to call me bad for mixing things up when I did. He freaked the FUCK OUT (and I laughed so, so hard). Honestly, it also made me look a bit in your direction since you freaked out about a possible tie, but that was a mafia cultural difference that you explained. nutella switched her vote soon after from SVS to Cobalt. Golden changed his vote a few times to break the tie. Hedgeowl and Gumshoe came in last minute and voted. Cobalt tried to say he would've switched yadda yadda yadda (I've already said this twice). Looking at this now several days later, it's not as much of a great analyzing point as I'd like it to be, and the "good reactions" I mentioned were rather more amusing than informative, but there's the raw data of what went down that day.

I'm still itchy about Cobalt, especially since his activity has died down considerably these past few days. His two posts for today were either nonsense about G-Man's supposed threat to being voted or about getting back into the game when his RL stuff dies down. The RL stuff might be true and I hope it's not terrible! but his participation has been little more than "DIE LC" and getting angrily defensive when he has been here, so I'd like to see what he means by getting back in "full force." I am a bit wary of nutella based on behavior (I had mentioned she seemed more serious than what I'd experienced as her civ self in the past) and that vote switch from Day 1, but then I look at her vote record - she has voted for people on both mafia teams. However, for some reason I'd thought she'd voted earlier in the LC and sig lynches, which is what really held me back, but she seems to have voted when they were pretty much a done deal (aside from vote switching mechanics). So I guess what I'm saying is that I need to look back at her again and she could still be a baddie.

I know that's not what you guys are talking about currently in the thread at this hour, but I figured I'd get these thoughts out while they were in my head and to make myself tired enough to go to sleep (and because Guess Who might start tomorrow, which will likely alter my concentration and participation in this game). However, I will at least comment about vote analysis in finding baddies - it freaking works. It caught us BAD in Biblical, as Golden attests so I'm glad to see it being used and discussed here

For the record, I'm still not tired. Maybe I'll try reading myself to sleep.

I especially disagree with her when she says sig's reaction to her vote gave many people their "first real ping" about him. I know I first became suspicious of sig because of the way he handled his own vote that day.

You misunderstand me. I wasn't claiming my vote caused other people to be pinged by him - I said his reaction caused me to be pinged. I ain't that conceited.

I did not even become wary of his response to niju's vote until after he had been lynched and I looked back through his posts, and the only reason it stood out to me was because of how strange he was acting towards niju in particular. I think it's also worth noting that she makes absolutely no mention of that sig ping in her big huge follow up post. She does spend a lot of time telling us why Cobalt is bad, though.

Spoiler: show

Well, I am late for this party, but I am laughing profusely at the thread

I don't plan on changing my mind about what I believe to be Cobalt's alignment, but I suppose it would be prudent to look at...others. I will determine what others I want to focus on at a later time, as I simply want a placeholder/check-back-in post right now and I'm exhausted from moving boxes up three flights of stairs in nearly 100 degree weather, but I digress. Back later to read back and post in more detail.

Linki - Ohhhh man gotta love the picture posts

Still no mention of sig...

Spoiler: show

I gotta stop doing this to myself. But moving takes so. Much. Time. Here we go.

So I've tabbed quotes from people that I agree with and/or find interesting (I'll make it clear what I think about them as I go). Sometimes I'm sad I wasn't there in real time to respond, but thems the breaks. I'll also comment on general things that have been discussed.

Coablt's discussion has been totally about role descriptions.... you can choose to believe or disbelieve him.

You obviously have the final say on this, Dom, so I'll move along. I'll just say that I don't like his play, and that if he is a civ, his actions have more likely hurt than helped the cause, imo.

I agree so, so much with this and with your longer post from before. I still think Cobalt is baddie bad bad, but in the offchance in my mind that he is civ, he is NOT playing a very civ-friendly game. His insanified posts are rather amusing, though.

I enjoyed the G-Man pictures (might be because I saw a few of them in Economics but wasn't actually in the game). In fact, I seem to enjoy reading G-Man's posts regardless, especially knowing his identity as Balaam (he humored my request for more ass jokes ). I hope you keep some of your pictures! But speaking of G-Man (or another of his former alter-ego players),

So I went back to look at timing.

Epi dies. Epi replaces in. Epi has (I think) only two posts - one where he says 'I know who killed me' and one where he says 'my suspicions haven't changed'. Then TGG asks to be subbed out.

I honestly think it's very consistent with someone who was part of a team that killed epi, that they killed them for cause, and was upset when he was able to sub back in and express the particular sentiments that he did. I think G-Man and LC are a team. I feel less sure that bubbles is, but she definitely could be.

Does it suck that someone subbing out on a matter of principle could sink a team? Yes. But this is why you should always keep your cool in mafia. I guarantee you, when people complain about things being unfair in this game, it's almost always mafia. Because they perceive it has harmed their chances. I don't think Epi's views necessarily held great weight, and I think the reaction to him subbing back in provides a whole lot more information about how important they believed killing epi to be.

This is a fascinating analysis and, since Epi seems to be silenced and absent, dare I say interesting thought process. I like the ideas posed here (about TGG perhaps getting frustrated and mafia getting frustrated in general). It's a bit of a stretch but entirely possible. However, I'd like to give G-Man the BOTD for today at least since he's a totally different player than TGG. We'll see how it goes.

I REALLY want to hear more from row 3. So...calling MM, sig, njuu, nutella, and Turnip! Anything to report??

Roger that. I read and re-read your post about the messages, but my eyesight tends to start going double the more tired I get and, therefore, I get lost in longer analysis posts (this might be why I enjoy the G-Man pics - easier to read!). What information/analysis are you requesting, exactly? I'm happy to help where I can.

As for suspicions beyond Cobalt, I'm still game for LC (it's been a while and I got super distracted by Cobalt, but I liked and agreed with Epi's suspicion and analysis Day 1). TB (I don't really like calling her that, because it looks like tuberculosis so let's go with TBubbles instead) is an enigma but I'm getting some weird vibes. I keep flip-flopping on how I feel about her, TBH. One moment I was just about to post how I felt she was weird for voting LC instead of Cobalt because she thought the "bandwagon was scummy," and then I re-read that and think, "Oh wait, that's actually logical." So maybe it's just a vibe thing (I'm using that word a lot this game, I notice), although my gut is usually pretty good in mafia. I suppose I should say I have mixed feelings about ol' TBubbles - I feel bad if she's civ and she's feeling so frustrated with this game that she's self-voted, but on the other hand she's been saying "I'm civ! I'm civ!" the entire game without giving us any other reason to believe it beyond that. Plus I don't care for self-votes. But TBubbles, I hope you're not too frustrated, and I'm sorry you're not having much fun - I hope you stay and know that suspicion is nothing personal! Also, nutella seems a lot more serious and a little more biting in this game than I remember, and I'm pretty sure she's been civ in the other games I've played. So there's that. I'll probably give her another good look. Hope you had fun with Blooper stream-of-consciousness hour (and by that I mean I apologize for any discomfort it may have caused). Any questions before we move on?

Effective immediately, Metalmarsh89 has replaced Metalmarsh89. As a result, Metalmarsh89 cannot be lynched today.

I laughed out loud at this for real

I don't recognise myself with that avatar. Where is my golden one!

You and me both, buddy. I keep looking for Blooper to see my last post on a page and it's confusing as fuck.

Lots of suspects, but still none named sig. She does offer support of Golden's G-man/Gamerguy theory, but she also remarks that it's "a bit of a stretch" and that she wants to give G-man a pass for a day. Perhaps setting herself up to begin bussing a teammate later on, but not right away. Because we can lynch Cobalt first (I'm aware I've just done a 180 from my previous stance on her "give G-man BOTD" remark).

Spoiler: show

I don't expect anyone to read all of my big casing posts, but I would really appreciate if people could take a look at those last two (sig and gamer/g-man) and share their thoughts as well. They're the two players who I'm most seriously considering for a lynch, and I obviously think they're very good suspects right now. If other people feel the same way, that'd be great.

any other thoughts about any of my reads are also welcome, of course

I like your sig case. I tend to get lost in large games with so many people to keep track of, especially near the beginning, and I'd forgotten about him. He's been weirding me out with the wishy-washy votes and posts, too.

Can I ask ourHOST why G-Man is able to be voted for? I was off limits for the day I subbed in....

I think it's because you subbed in during the day, and G-Man subbed in at the start of the day, but I'm just guessing.

Thanks, Host! :P

WHO'S G-Man's teammate?

Here she finally mentions sig, after Scotty and I had both posted our cases against him and I specifically asked for people to respond to it a couple of times. As I noted in my previous post about sig/Ninja interactions, I find it a bit inconsistent that she claims to have both "forgotten about" sig and been "weirded out" by him. I now find it even more inconsistent, considering her later post about "getting her first ping" on sig after his reaction to her Day 1 vote.

Spoiler: show

So...as with others, I'm confused at what happened to Sloonei. It didn't mention death, but he also seemed to exit pretty...not dead?

There are so many long posts that I am loving here. I apparently suck at using the spoiler tag, so I'm going to do what I hate and include the link to the posts until I figure out the spoilers, since they're so, so long:

Sloonei's first post analyzing connections to sig:
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 69#p154469
I like most of this analysis, mainly for the commentary for LC being bad in connection to LC.

The other one also caught my attention for analyzing sig's so-called reads on people:
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 89#p154489

I must comment on the last part for reasons. One is this, because it's driving me absolutely nuts:

0-10 10 highest 1 lowest
, nijuukyugou 5 she was less scum before her switching andthen saying she would just run and lynch

What in the name of god's green earth is this? I have done no vote switching this entire game. You see what happens to liars? :P I do like that sig tries to throw shade at me, calling me suspicious, then "hard civ" when he's on the way down, then wishy-washy'ing his way back to "suspicious." I see what you did there...well, kinda. Nice try.

I also like Epi's Cobalt/LC analysis:
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 93#p154493

It's just beautiful. I don't even know how to put in my own words how much I agree with it. But I guess I just did.

The inconsistency continues. If she was suspicious of sig for his Day 1 behavior, why is she not noticing/commenting on it until after he's been lynched? (I also said this in my other post, but it's worth restating)

Spoiler: show

Woo hoo! Two for two!

I'm going Les Mis. It has less votes, and while I really like the storyline of Les Mis, Russell Crowe's horrid singing in its most recent adaptation cannot be forgotten. Also, I've never seen Miss Saigon, so I have no opinion of it, but since both musicals are apparently sung-through, it would probably annoy me, too :P

I like the theory that one or both of the scum teams would have tried to cover all their bases on the Les Mis/Saigon poll, and only myself, FZ, Scotty, and niju voted Les Mis that night. This also makes me scratch my chin at Scotty, but he's one of the people who's been bringing this theory about, and I'm not terribly suspicious of him otherwise at this moment (Would still really like to hear other opinions on him, btw).

nijuukyugou is no longer a town read. I'd like to hear her response to this, as well as any reads she has about current suspects.

This is where you believe or don't believe me (I suggest believing), but I did forget about sig at the time I made the long post, as I said. I always have trouble holding more than two, maybe three suspects in my head, especially at the beginning of a game, a full game no less. I often end up reading pages of mafia posts at the ends of days and get pings as I read, but if I don't save the quotes that ping me or physically type out names as I go, I won't remember, but I'll remember how I felt when I do go back and look at people. And honestly, as I was writing that big long post I kept thinking, "I KNOW there's someone I'm forgetting, but I want to get something posted and I've already written a lot" and voila! Your case reminded me of him and was (obviously) sound.

As for not actually responding to sig's ridiculous wishy-washy shade throwing at me until it was brought up by others, as a rule I don't respond to what I consider baiting, which is exactly what sig was doing. I ignore it, and only respond to it when others (like what you and others have done) mention it in the thread and try to make something out of it. sig is getting precisely the reaction from you that he wanted, and since he was bad, well, doing his bidding is not exactly the best course of action

My god, that was a pain in the ass to respond to (not the accusations themselves, but the formatting and re-formatting). Happy to answer anything I failed to address or needs clarification.

Linki - They are changeable, Scotty!

[nijuukyugou]

I have a killer headache from two winery tours this afternoon and gotta get up early tomorrow to move furniture, so I'm calling it early tonight. I'll try to check in tomorrow between moving and celebrating by blowing things up, but if not, happy Independence Day, my fellow Americans! 'MURIKA

[Golden]

I have a killer headache

An admission!

[Sloonei]

The bigger middle paragraph where she runs through her reasoning about all three feels a bit contrived and doesn't seem to fit as well with her previous statement that she's excited to have "decent suspicion" of all three and is "okay with voting any of them". Immediately after saying this, she expresses that she's not actually okay with voting Cobalt, waffles a bit on SVS, and ultimately settles on Long Con because she "likes Epi's case". I feel like a town Ninja would not have been so quick to make a decision here, even with changeable votes.

Town Ninja is quite relaxed with her votes

Her later comments about doing it for the "interesting reactions" also now comes back to me as not particularly fitting with the tone of this post, as it is suggested here that she at least feigned careful reasoning before voting, and was not just doing it to provoke others. Here it is:

Spoiler: show

@ Sloonei I've played with someone who would always vote for themselves after to many people became suspicious I don't think it is a good mafia method but one person has in the past fooled me bydoing that and I've seen two others do the same, it is a mindgame which always makes me think they are mafia trying to make themselves seem like civilians.


Nijuuk if your wary of SVS why not vote for her? I'm not understanding your vote

Because I wanted to make it interesting. I'm wary of all three of the top candidates and am okay with any and all getting votes. (PS you can call me Nijuu or Blooper if you want)

I am no longer buying this excuse. When I asked her about it, she responded affirmatively:

Also would you say things have been made more interesting by your LC vote, Blooperstranger?

Oh, quite! It's garnered some good reactions.

But then it took her a few days to follow up on it, and when she did there wasn't really much evidence to back up the claim:

Spoiler: show

In general, after my LC vote Day 1, people seemed to flip out and start changing votes, but that is often the norm here on TS with changeable votes. However, it was specific reactions that got my attention. First, it gave me (and others in their analyses) my first real ping of sig, who was the first to freak out and try to call me bad for mixing things up when I did. He freaked the FUCK OUT (and I laughed so, so hard). Honestly, it also made me look a bit in your direction since you freaked out about a possible tie, but that was a mafia cultural difference that you explained. nutella switched her vote soon after from SVS to Cobalt. Golden changed his vote a few times to break the tie. Hedgeowl and Gumshoe came in last minute and voted. Cobalt tried to say he would've switched yadda yadda yadda (I've already said this twice). Looking at this now several days later, it's not as much of a great analyzing point as I'd like it to be, and the "good reactions" I mentioned were rather more amusing than informative, but there's the raw data of what went down that day.

I'm still itchy about Cobalt, especially since his activity has died down considerably these past few days. His two posts for today were either nonsense about G-Man's supposed threat to being voted or about getting back into the game when his RL stuff dies down. The RL stuff might be true and I hope it's not terrible! but his participation has been little more than "DIE LC" and getting angrily defensive when he has been here, so I'd like to see what he means by getting back in "full force." I am a bit wary of nutella based on behavior (I had mentioned she seemed more serious than what I'd experienced as her civ self in the past) and that vote switch from Day 1, but then I look at her vote record - she has voted for people on both mafia teams. However, for some reason I'd thought she'd voted earlier in the LC and sig lynches, which is what really held me back, but she seems to have voted when they were pretty much a done deal (aside from vote switching mechanics). So I guess what I'm saying is that I need to look back at her again and she could still be a baddie.

I know that's not what you guys are talking about currently in the thread at this hour, but I figured I'd get these thoughts out while they were in my head and to make myself tired enough to go to sleep (and because Guess Who might start tomorrow, which will likely alter my concentration and participation in this game). However, I will at least comment about vote analysis in finding baddies - it freaking works. It caught us BAD in Biblical, as Golden attests so I'm glad to see it being used and discussed here

For the record, I'm still not tired. Maybe I'll try reading myself to sleep.

I especially disagree with her when she says sig's reaction to her vote gave many people their "first real ping" about him. I know I first became suspicious of sig because of the way he handled his own vote that day.

You misunderstand me. I wasn't claiming my vote caused other people to be pinged by him - I said his reaction caused me to be pinged. I ain't that conceited.

Yes, and that is what I am basing this case on. Based on the evidence in your post history, it does not appear that you actually were pinged by sig in that instance, and that you only tacked it on afterwards when I brought it up a few days later. This is the point in the case that I am most concerned about, as it genuinely seems like a place where you very subtly scum-slipped. Based on all the evidence in your post history prior to this instance, you never seemed to pay sig any mind, but then when I asked you for interesting reactions you noted that he pinged you on Day 1 for that specific point. But the way some of your other posts are framed, it does not appear like you took any particular interest in the point.

My god, that was a pain in the ass to respond to (not the accusations themselves, but the formatting and re-formatting). Happy to answer anything I failed to address or needs clarification.

Thank you for your response, I really do appreciate it. I am still not convinced that you are telling the truth, unfortunately. You failed to answer what is my biggest concern, the point highlighted above. If you have any thoughts or things or questions please share.
I am also very curious at this time about your current suspects. Who are they and why?

[Sloonei]

I've gotten in the habit of immediately pouring over the thread after a lynch to search for clues in the dead scum's post history. I don't know what to do tonight.

[Sloonei]

In answer to my own question, while we don't have a dead scum whose posts we can dig through, we do have a confirmed townie now in Bubbles, and we can perhaps learn quite a bit from reading her posts and also seeing how others reacted to the suspicions that were being levied against her. Let's do that.

[XthAtGAm3RGuYX]

I have a killer headache from two winery tours this afternoon and gotta get up early tomorrow to move furniture, so I'm calling it early tonight. I'll try to check in tomorrow between moving and celebrating by blowing things up, but if not, happy Independence Day, my fellow Americans! 'MURIKA

You know you're not ACTUALLY supposed to drink the wine at a winery tour right? You're just supposed to taste it or whatever. Not that I've been to one. More of an Apple Pie Moonshine kinda guy. Happy Freedom day to you as well, 29, and all the other murricans.

MERICA! FUCK YEAH!

[nutella]

I'm gonna go ahead and vote for Bubbles. She is definitely my strongest baddie read at this point.

You. Why? You've posted three times in this days phase, none of which were involved in talking about your suspicions.

I'm also going to be looking at ninja, as per Sloonei's request, since she also bandwagon'd in.

But nutella...I'm getting hungry for your opinions, and your name isn't helping.

What? I have definitely been talking about my suspicions. I expressed my suspicion of Bubbles multiple times, and discussed my other suspects/opinions. Like in my response to Sloonei earlier. And my rainbow list (technically was during the night, but still). I don't believe you even read my posts before making that claim.

[Scotty]

You're gonna make me comb through your posts, are you?

I'm gonna go ahead and vote for Bubbles. She is definitely my strongest baddie read at this point.

Why?

Bubbles is looking worse and worse, I think she is caught. I'm definitely planning to vote for her as of now. But it is also a good idea to look for possible G-Man teammates as Sloonei is doing.

Why?
I saw your rainbow list. That tells me you suspect people. Why?

I'm still combing...I'm all the way back to the beginning of Day 4, when you were casting a narrow suspicion on Bass.

I'm not accusing you per se, I'm just noting the fact that you haven't voiced ANY justified opinions on Tiny besides the fact that she was "bad". This fact and the fact that you just relied on telling me you've expressed suspicion of bubbles without backing up
The only thing that makes me pause in flat out accusing you is this post from Day 4:

I think I'm going to vote for LC. Partially because a vote for G-man at this point would make it closer to a tie, partially because the case that LC is Sig's teammate is looking pretty strong. I really want G-man gone too and really think he is bad especially after seeing his behavior today, but today I want to lynch LC. I'm pretty damn convinced he's bad, and learning his alignment will help us figure more stuff out.

You list both teams in suspicion. On the surface, it would appear you want both out. So let's go through your vote history since we're here.

Day 1: Vote Cobalt.
No big deal here, he was pretty suspicious.
Day 2: Vote sig
You were 2nd to last to vote for sig, before BlackRock. He was already losing by a landslide.
Day 3: Vote LC
LC had 7 votes, and GMan had 5. With your vote, 3 more people followed you.
Day 4: Vote GMan
This one is your saving grace on the surface, except that GMan was universally distrusted by this point. You were 6th to vote him, but this was a landslide just waiting to happen.
Day 5: Vote TinyBubbles
This one had not a lot of people voting. You broke the 3/3 tie of BR-Tiny by voting Tiny. You know what's reallyinteresting? Bubbles voted for you. Out of all the people, she voted you.

Canuck, what do you mean about a link between Bubbles and me?


Interesting case on BR, I might have to rethink my stance on her. I didn't realize she had so completely avoided discussions like Cobalt/LC. I still have a weird hunch telling me she's not LC's teammate, but the more I think about it the more I can see it. I've so far been inclined to think she's a civvie who's just been holding back a little from some of the thread discussion and interjecting some of her own less popular opinions now and then, but the way you've shown it her post history is looking more and more baddie-like.

You express that your opinion of BR is maybe not civvie, and more "baddie-like" but when it comes down to it, you vote Tiny.

Wow. Maybe I have tunnel vision right now since you made me comb through your posts. But uh...

Is it too bold to say that I think you're on Team Webber?

[Scotty]

Sloonei, I'm reading through your ISO of ninja now.
Her wishy-washy posts in Day 1 on SVS and LC are concerning, but it is also Day 1 and no one really knows anything.
She does seem on the fence of both sig and GMan. Her suspicions throughout on both of them are weaksauce at best. Just looking at your ISO, she doesn't seem to pounce on her Day 1 sig suspicions. She keeps giving GMan BOTD, which I also did. I legit wasn't reading into TGG's quitting as anything more than lost time, so Golden wins that award for intuition. I also didn't have a strong opinion of GMan until his posting started grating on me.

My perception of blooper isn't good, but it also isnt bad right now. I'm not sold that she has been entirely helpful this game. Sort of like MM. Her voting has been hinging on last-minute votes, and hasn't contributed too much to suspicions. But she also has been forthright I think with her thoughts, even though they usually come late.
ninja's probably at a 1 on my list (-20 to 20) right now. Hinging on independent, and not the most helpful civ, but not too blatantly mafia.
My question to nutella is: who is your top suspect now and why?

Sorry to use this as a soundboard for my nutella Tourettes , but Ninja said this:
"Also, nutella seems a lot more serious and a little more biting in this game than I remember, and I'm pretty sure she's been civ in the other games I've played. So there's that. I'll probably give her another good look."

lol I didn't even have nutella on my radar yesterday. Whoops.
Oh, and I know Webber kills tonight, but please don't kill me. I'll sing a little ditty if you let me live. kthnx

[Marmot]

Cobalt is still alive and TinyBubbles is dead. This is most unfortunate.

[Bass_the_Clever]

RIP TB
Sorry about missing the vote was out watching fireworks.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Voted to think

[Bass_the_Clever]

If I voted I would have voted Nutella or Cobalt.

[Scotty]

If I voted I would have voted Nutella or Cobalt.

Why?

And MM, welcome back! Did you learn anything or have any observations from your time off?

[timmer]

I'm not going to be around much today, I'm seriously hungover. I think more than ever that BR is bad.

[nutella]

Scotty: Idk, I thought it was pretty self-explanatory why I thought Bubbles was bad. She was acting like she was cornered, all her posts sounded so so bad. What more do you want me to say? And as for my other suspicions, I've certainly explained a number of times why I suspect Bass, though again it's largely a gut read/tone of his posts. Sorry I don't have long detailed cases, that's not really the way I usually roll.

I don't know why you think I could be on team webber. I expressed suspicion of Sig long before most other people and was a strong proponent of his lynch, as well as G-man's.

[Cobalt]

Isn't it so convenient that Scum Rock can try and say timmer is trying to deflect votes and then winds up with TB getting lynched instead of her?

I put my vote there for a reason.

[Sloonei]

in lieu of content, here's a visual approximation of my day

[nutella]

Oh I forgot to vote in the night poll earlier. Picking "find" because I like to find cool stuff in the woods.

[Marmot]

If I voted I would have voted Nutella or Cobalt.

Why?

And MM, welcome back! Did you learn anything or have any observations from your time off?

None yet.

And I apoligize for that, because I hate being behind. I've joined my family for vacation, and s much as I'd like to sit in play mafia, that just isn't in the cards.

[DFaraday]

I was going to vote teach, but one must be able to think before teaching.

[Epignosis]

I was going to vote teach, but one must be able to think before teaching.

You'd be surprised.

[Sloonei]

100% civvie and practically perfect in every way
Strong civvie read
Moderate civvie read
Slight civvie read
Neutral/no read
Slight baddie read
Moderate baddie read

nutella
Timmer
Golden
Sloonei
FZ
Canuck
Metalmarsh
Black Rock
Gumshoe (what happened??)
Niju
Scotty
Bullzeye
Cobalt (neutral because I keep going back and forth, thought he was bad for a while but now think he might be civ)
Devin
DFaraday
Dream
Hedgeowl
Epignosis
Neverwhere
Turnip Head
Bass The Clever
TinyBubbles


May have been a little generous with my slight civvie reads, some of those are closer to neutral I guess. There are only about 4 baddies left but quite possibly a couple of them are among those quiet folks.

this rainbow list has far too many neutral reads. If I told you you're not allowed to list any of them as neutral (besides those three completely inactive players, because what are we supposed to do with them really?), how would you rate them?

[Sloonei]

My vote is based on the lyrics to this completely unrelated song

[Sloonei]

There was supposed to be a video there but inapparently don't know how to format things

[nutella]

oh so I'm not allowed to have neutral reads? I have to have an opinion of every single player, and that opinion can't be neutral? I put them as neutral because I honestly don't have a read on them. They could be good or bad.

Maybe it's the style you guys are used to but you and Scotty have been pressuring people to explain/elaborate on reads of every single player, way more than I'm used to. In all the many games of mafia I've played, I've never been asked so many times in a row, over and over, what my suspicions are and why. You guys have asked me like ten times now and I keep answering. I don't get it. Maybe it's easy for you to do ISOs of every single player and make elaborate cases on why you think they're mafia or not, but that's not the way I play and I'd like to stop being hounded for playing the game how I do.

I don't want this to come across as taking anything personally, I'm not. I'm just a bit tired of being asked the same things over and over.


Love Radical Face btw!

linki: the video showed up for me

[Sloonei]

The only thing that makes me pause in flat out accusing you is this post from Day 4:

I think I'm going to vote for LC. Partially because a vote for G-man at this point would make it closer to a tie, partially because the case that LC is Sig's teammate is looking pretty strong. I really want G-man gone too and really think he is bad especially after seeing his behavior today, but today I want to lynch LC. I'm pretty damn convinced he's bad, and learning his alignment will help us figure more stuff out.

You list both teams in suspicion. On the surface, it would appear you want both out. So let's go through your vote history since we're here.

I have the exact opposite view of this post. Day 4 was the day where Long Con and G-man were the only ones to get any votes, so it was abundantly clear that one of them was going down. Any differing opinion would have stood out. That nutella expresses support of both lynches tells me nothing, but the way this post is worded makes me think she was being extra careful to seem open to both sides. "I think I'm going to vote LC. Partially because a vote for G-man..." I'll look through her posts and track her reads of both players leading up to this point.

[Sloonei]

oh so I'm not allowed to have neutral reads? I have to have an opinion of every single player, and that opinion can't be neutral? I put them as neutral because I honestly don't have a read on them. They could be good or bad.

Yes, exactly. No neutral reads allowed. It doesn't need to be a well-reasoned read, I just want you to pick a side. Gut reactions are fine. On RYM (and I've also seen it a few times on here) we call them "Gun to head" reads. Suppose someone has a gun to your head and asks whether Cobalt, DFaraday, Hedgeowl, etc. are scum. How do you respond? Wetting yourself is acceptable, but it should not be your only answer.

Maybe it's the style you guys are used to but you and Scotty have been pressuring people to explain/elaborate on reads of every single player, way more than I'm used to. In all the many games of mafia I've played, I've never been asked so many times in a row, over and over, what my suspicions are and why. You guys have asked me like ten times now and I keep answering. I don't get it. Maybe it's easy for you to do ISOs of every single player and make elaborate cases on why you think they're mafia or not, but that's not the way I play and I'd like to stop being hounded for playing the game how I do.

I don't want this to come across as taking anything personally, I'm not. I'm just a bit tired of being asked the same things over and over.

I'm sorry if all my questions are detracting from the fun of the game, but likewise, this is just how I play the game. I'm looking for behavior that seems believable, and the easiest way to do that is to ask for everyone to share their thought process as often as possible. Like I said above, I'm not necessarily even looking for you to be super elaborate with your reads, I just like it when people pick a side, and then we can work from there. I don't want you to share anything that's not your honest thoughts.

Love Radical Face btw!

linki: the video showed up for me

[/quote] I'm always excited to meet other people who like him. The video is showing up for me now, it just wasn't there when I was on my phone I guess.

[Sloonei]

I still don't know how to format things.

[Bass_the_Clever]

So sloonei when you make your rainbow list how do you label indys ?

[FZ.]

Rezz please?

[Sloonei]

So sloonei when you make your rainbow list how do you label indys ?

I don't. I rate everyone according to how suspicious I find them.

[Bass_the_Clever]

So sloonei when you make your rainbow list how do you label indys ?

I don't. I rate everyone according to how suspicious I find them.

I get what you are saying. I guess I was a bit confused because people always have red as a strong mafia read. Thats why I asked.

[Bass_the_Clever]

If I voted I would have voted Nutella or Cobalt.

Why?

And MM, welcome back! Did you learn anything or have any observations from your time off?

Nutella as been flying so low this game. I mean I cant say I have been playing different but I also havent been around as much as she has. I feel like she has been going with what the crowd has been saying. I get people having gut reads but this late in the game with how many baddies have been lynched one of you strongest suspicions shouldn't be because of a gut read.

Cobalt has looked bad all game to me or at least indy his actions havent read civvie at all to me.

[Sloonei]

So sloonei when you make your rainbow list how do you label indys ?

I don't. I rate everyone according to how suspicious I find them.

I get what you are saying. I guess I was a bit confused because people always have red as a strong mafia read. Thats why I asked.

I never really look for indies. I don't know if anyone has any ways of picking up on specifically indie behavior, but it's always been my philosophy that we'll catch them when we catch them, and for the most part I do not worry about them.

[Sloonei]

If I voted I would have voted Nutella or Cobalt.

Why?

And MM, welcome back! Did you learn anything or have any observations from your time off?

Nutella as been flying so low this game. I mean I cant say I have been playing different but I also havent been around as much as she has. I feel like she has been going with what the crowd has been saying. I get people having gut reads but this late in the game with how many baddies have been lynched one of you strongest suspicions shouldn't be because of a gut read.

Cobalt has looked bad all game to me or at least indy his actions havent read civvie at all to me.

Is there anything specific about Cobalt that you can point to as being "not civvie"? Any posts in particular?

[G-Man]

Good afternoon, my fellow Syndicateers! It pleases me to see so many of you here for this truly momentous occasion.

In times like these, what we need is leadership. We seem to be lacking leadership right now. Sure, you may say that it doesn't matter because you've gotten along just fine without a strong leader guiding you along the path. But consider this! After I was lynched, your luck ran out and you've felt lost and unsure of where to go next.

You need to put your faith and trust not into some loser who makes pretty speeches but in someone with a proven track record of getting results and winning. You know who gets results and wins a lot? Rich people. I'm not rich myself but look at my picture at the top of this post- I've got gorgeous, glorious hair like Donald Trump. You see, I emulate the rich and successful and it has made me successful. I'm still waiting for the rich part but I have no doubt in my mind that it'll get here soon.

It is this confidence that makes me happy to announce that I, G-Man Cats, am running for resurrection. With your help, my gorgeous hair, and my keen intellect, we can make this forum great again!

I know what you're thinking- how can we trust someone who was on one of the baddie teams? The answer is simple- I'm not a loser. Think about it- would a loser have managed to evade elimination on his first day eligible to be voted for? No, they wouldn't. Losers die right away after they sub in for someone who all but tells everyone that they're bad. Winners- I tell you this- avoid the obvious conclusion.

Sure, I frustrated you when I first joined the game but let's be honest- would a loser have turned the tables around and left you smiling the way I did? No! Losers realize they stink and just sit there and wait for the inevitable or they waster their time concocting pretty speeches about why they're not bad even though they obviously are. I, my friends, am no loser.

So now you're wondering where I stand on the issues. Well let me tell you:

First and foremost, I believe in strong national defense. We have a problem and it's dogs. They're nothing but terrorists who traumatize us cats and rape every leg they can get their filthy paws on. If I am elected as your resurrectee I will take on this canine menace head-on and advocate the creation of a national database containing all dogs. Any dog not registering for this database will be considered an enemy of the state.

Secondly, I will eliminate all regulations on recreational catnip. The era of big government needs to come to an end. Medicinal and recreational catnip must be embraced as a reality and those in denial need to wake up and stop being losers.

Thirdly, I will invest heavily in science programs. We need science to find cures for all kinds of diseases- AIDS, cancer, ALS, and especially hairballs. Trust me when I say that a hairball free world will be a happy world.

I look forward to reaching out to many more of you in the coming days. Together, we can make this forum great again and it starts with you. And by that I mean you electing me and my gorgeous hair for resurrection.

Thank you, Syndicateers! Let's make this happen!

[Sloonei]

I'll cats my ballot for you, g-man.