The Syndicate

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:51 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:33 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:30 pm Jack I'm only ignoring your suspicions in order to pursue my own. You are doing essentially the same thing. We're both town.

No.

You flat said you don't suspect Speedchuck. I was yelling to lynch DH yesterday and you haven't brought anything new to the table on Kyle. I'm not ignoring your shit.

Idk what you want me to say then I think DH and Kyle are our baddies and that's what I'm pushing.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:35 pm That's a really harsh read of my gameplay. I don't much agree with it.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:38 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:35 pm That's a really harsh read of my gameplay. I don't much agree with it.

What is?

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:55 pm

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:38 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:35 pm That's a really harsh read of my gameplay. I don't much agree with it.

What is?

Jack's post right above mine, where he accuses me of not trying to solve the game

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:24 pm Vague accusations will be highlighted orange.

Reads that conflict with his votes or statements will be highlighted in red.

My words will be highlighted in pink.

Good reasons to lynch Kness would be highlighted in green but there are none.

Spoiler: show

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:00 pm DharmaHelper - I firmly think is 3P. Fite me.
DFaraday - scumread
Dom - ??? town?
DrWilgy - ??? scum?
Dyslexicon - town
JackofHearts2005 - waffling
K-Ness - scum
Kylemii - town
Long Con - town
novaselinenever - scum
speedchuck - XOXO
Soneji - town
Turnip Head - town

I think there is at least one (mostly) inactive scum, if not two. This list: DF, Dom, Wilgy, Nova, Soneji.
That ain't good. My bets are on Nova and/or DF for reasons I might get into during the day.

I think DH is 3P for other reasons. Some of which I kinda remember. Will get into that today.

K-Ness felt terrible on the previous two pages. DH's case on JoH has merit, but it's hard to stand firmly on the two in between all the bullcrap.

linki: Hope your tomorrow is good @K-Ness

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:39 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:12 am

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:03 am Solved the game for you guys by Day 8 like I said I would you're welcome.

So everyone voting you right now is the scum team?

I like DH's case on JoH somewhat but I've been scum with Jack before. He wasn't, as I recall, the type to defend me or vote alongside me. I'd have to go back to Pirates to check that out more.
This is mitigated by Jack making waffles all over K-ness and DH, which isn't the same as defending.
And like Jack said, he didn't vote with K-ness. K-ness voted with him.

So maybe. But it doesn't feel like it should be that easy. And DH is kinda throwing NO U crap everywhere, coincidentally or not.

So the case against Jack has merit except for...all of it?

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:25 pm [VOTE: JoH] aubergine

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:27 pm [VOTE: K-Ness] aubergine

I've got a headache today but I wanna talk about K-ness.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:37 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:31 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:25 pm [VOTE: JoH] aubergine

Why? Your commentary on DH’s case was like “This is good except for all the details, which really aren’t.”

Do you think I really shoot all those loud players, all the players like Mac, Quin and Sprityo who were on my side about things?

Do you think I beg the town to doctor Nutella and then shoot her anyway?

Do you think DH really fought against the Marmot lynch but jumped right into scumreading me and Kness based on one post each because he actually thought Marmot was town and actually thinks Kness and I are scum?

Regardless of DH’s alignment, your reaction to all this is not great.

Linki: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

Nah, you're probably town. I was just making waffles.

Says the case is good, points out why the case is crap, votes Jack, gets called out, says he townreads Jack. Somebody is dancing.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:33 pm I could buy that Marmot and Luna controlled the kill N1. Most of the rest were inactives. DH came in to save ruin the day as another mafia bro.

Add in Wil(g)y and DF, call it a day.

That's a proposed scumteam I would buy.
But I like DH.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:41 pm It makes sense. Remember the whole replacement=scum thing. (excluding White because White didn't have any posts so that made them a priority)

Also POE if Jack is town. And I like Jack too.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:31 pm I'm being pretty convinced right now by JoH's call to meta. I feel inactives would be flying straight to hell if he was scum captain.

Source: Been scum with the guy. And killing JJJ (presumably) N1? Lame as heeeeellllll

Buys my case for a townie Jack and a scum DH. So we can expect him to vote for DH right?

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:25 am Conclusion: All three of the current wagons are compatible with scum to some degree.

Jack's interactions with Marmot, if they are a 'throw under the bus' kind of thing, have him going at Marmot surprisingly hard. Marmot strikes back too. Probably the hardest interactions to reconcile with a scum Jack.

Luna interacts with alien, trying to facilitate some reads from him, then does what could be distancing later.

K-ness is one of those asking 'why' Luna is suspected. She responds to downplay it.

I didn't check DH's interactions with Marmot. I'm pretty sure those interactions are seared into everyone's head by now.

Says he can't decide between three players that are all compatible with scum to some degree. But look what he's actually saying, that Jack isn't scummy, that DH is and that Kness had a conversation that is suspicious for...reasons. I call him out on it so he briefly moves to DH.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:34 am

JackofHeroes wrote: Where’s the part where I’m compatible with scum? Is it the part you say is hard to reconcile with me being scum?

Wafflewaffle.

TECHNICALLY compatible TO SOME DEGREE and likely are two different things.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:36 am

[VOTE: DharmaHelper] aubergine

I don't have a team, Jack. Just putting up reference material.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:14 am

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:06 am

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:02 am

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:57 am As to his "meta", I assume you mean his very sincere "Hey wink wink guys wink if me and Knees were bad wink wink wink wink we would not kill active players wink wink wink." Which I guess is fine. That's perfectly fine and cool if you believe that he would do that every single game he ever plays. And that he wouldn't.....change....his MO....to cover his ass in meta.... if he ever took heat....

You can ignore calls to meta if you want. But I like using them because past experience says they can (in certain circumstances) be trusted.

JJJ was killed on night one. NIGHT ONE. There was no ass-covering going on there, Jack had no suspicion on him. Whoever controlled that kill decided to take down one of the bigger voices in the thread. Jack isn't the type to do that. Is he the type to let everyone else control the nightkill? I could see Luna or Marmot taking JJJ down.
What about bussing? Jack was one of the main drivers of the Marmot lynch.

When you say "he doesn't do that" is what you mean "He hasn't done that yet"?

Do you look at people you know and think, "Well they haven't murdered anyone yet. But every one of them is totally capable."

Totally outlandish comparison, yes. But if JackofHearts doesn't just spam-kill high posters in games with lurkers and no-shows, it's not because of a manufactured meta that he uses to win games. The reason to leave people like JJJ and Macdougall alive is because it's a better game with them than with a single-post Soneji and an absent DF.
I daresay it's an ethical conviction, to care about the quality of a game as much as the win. Ethics are not so easily changed, and if they WERE changed in order to ass-cover, it wouldn't be on nights one and two, when there was no suspicion to cover from.

More talking about how I'm so town.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:17 am @Dyslexicon @Turnip Head

Please expound on your K-ness votes if you really want him lynched.

Spoiler: show

Thinks I'm town, thinks DH is bad but he wants people to talk about why Kness is bad. Doesn't even know if these votes are serious.

More about Jack so town.

Spoiler: show

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:21 am

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:16 am OK but how alibis work is you set them up before you need them.

And also, Not entirely out of the question that he didn't pick or execute the kills himself? IDK man, thats a lot of trust to put into meta. Trust that a smart player would exploit at some point.

I happen to think of this as more of an ethical thing. It's not just a quirk or mindset decision. If JoH is against killing high posters early, there's some care that goes into that. Character, integrity. I don't think of it as just an alibi.

I did, however, mention the second as a possibility. I'm like that. I personally wouldn't kill high posters early. But I've been on scumteams that have made decision like that. I don't get in chatzy much, and I like to just stay out of things.
It's a possibility. In which case it would be extremely nasty of Jack to use the meta argument, but nevertheless.

I'll look at the Marmot lynch after I get something to eat.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:36 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:48 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:42 pm

Night 3 has Ended.

Spoiler: show

nutella has been killed.

It is now Day 3. You have 48 hours to lynch someone.

Nobody listens to me.

Also this is too much for WIFOM IMO. Jack called to this. It has been ignored.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:47 am Day 4 starts.

These happen:

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:44 pm [VOTE: Marmot] aubergine

Marmotmarmotmarmot

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:36 am Marmot's still sketchier tho, on account of his offwagon sprityo vote that quickly turned into an on-wagon Luna vote.

sprityo wrote: ↑Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:54 am Things are pretty slow rn so I’m really hoping we get some discussion going

Since it’s trending, does anyone oppose marmot lynch rn and why?

Nt much else discussion of Marmot other than these. People flopping on Sloonei, Sprit, and Bullzeye. Then...

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:58 am [VOTE: I am voting for Marmot cause he’s probably bad. Like worst excuse to turn away from Luna (and Sloonei?) by somehow painting Sloonei and Sprityo as teammates. Then switched to bus Luna iirc. Pretty dang sketch.] aubergine

This happens. It is the main suspicion on Marmot, put into better terms. This is the point that got DH on the Marmot train, though he needed the 'bus Luna' bit clarified by the timing of Marmot's vote.

The day proceeds from there, and admittedly Jack talks about a lot of other stuff. He's instrumental in pushing Marmot through harder the following day.

Dizzy, Jack, and TH were probably most instrumental in pushing Marmot to the forefront on day 4, overall.

Not as strong a look as I was hoping for, but definitely a bus when one wasn't needed. Aside from those three players, most people had a null read on Marmot going into day 4. I know I did. Sprit, Sloon, Bullz, (all town) were options to push through easily. But the lynch settled on Marmot and Simon.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:23 am

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:17 am @Dyslexicon @Turnip Head

Please expound on your K-ness votes if you really want him lynched.

Right now, at this precise moment in time, I'd prefer to lynch him over Jack or DH

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:49 am I would also be okay with voting K-ness today, FYI.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:39 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:35 pm [VOTE: KNess] aubergine

They've got all the right friends in all the wrong places
So yeah, they're going down
They've got all the right reads in all the right faces
So yeah, they're going down

[VOTE: K-ness] aubergine

Spoiler: show

Where did this vote come from? Nobody gave him a case on Kness. Speed didn't give a reason for wanting to vote Kness. He just floated the idea and switched. What happened to his suspicion of DH? What happened to his trust in Jack? They went up in smoke because all of this is fake, an excuse to vote for a townie.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:50 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:43 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:39 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:35 pm [VOTE: KNess] aubergine

They've got all the right friends in all the wrong places
So yeah, they're going down
They've got all the right reads in all the right faces
So yeah, they're going down

[VOTE: K-ness] aubergine

If Kness is lynched and flips town, it’ll be bad for you, Chuckles.

Like a rubber band is attached to it, you just can’t seem to put your vote where it should be for very long.

Where should my vote be?

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:52 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:51 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:50 pm Where should my vote be?

On DH.

Oh. Oh you're right.

[VOTE: DH] aubergine

I bully Speed back into voting for DH. He goes along because he's trying to buddy me, not because he actually wants DH dead, which is clear by how he keeps sneaking off the DH wagon without being able to articulate why exactly.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:56 pm Does anyone want to lynch Wilgy?

What if we just lynch someone else who isn't DH who Speed also has no stated reasons to lynch?

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:42 pm [VOTE: K-ness] aubergine

Aaaaaand we're back on Kness. Why? If Speedchuck is a townie, I don't have the faintest idea.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:51 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:48 pm I’m saying by keeping the votes tied on two players you supposedly suspect, if GM is scum and has a vote and exactly one of Kness and DH is mafia, you are ensuring a townie lynch today.

Ah, okay.

I buy TH's recent case on K-ness. I'd prefer to lynch K-ness. My vote reflects that now.

Earlier I said I tied it because I wasn't certain. I don't feel that way anymore.

linki: I told you to do this earlier in the day you ninny. So I would have time to deal with it.

Horray! Speedchuck has finally found someone to make a Kness case for him. It's not so impressive. Here it is for reference.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 55#p487355

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:02 pm Jack let me help you out.

You townread K-Ness because of kill choices. You say he wouldn't make these choices himself, and there are no actives that he's compatible with.

HOWEVER

Luna and Marmot were very active for the first part of the game. You know, the part that killed JJJ, Mac, Sloonei, etc. If K-ness was on a team with them, on a strange site, don't you think he'd let them take point?

He's only had the past one or two nights to himself, IF he is with two inactives. Not inconceivable. Also TH has tied him to Dizzy, and that's worth a look.

AT LEAST CONSIDER IT PLS

Begs me to consider that a reason for Kness being town that I don't even believe is wrong. Still hasn't said in his own words why he thinks Kness is scum (cause he doesn't).

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:25 pm Far as I can tell, the case on K-ness is TMI in his votes and reads coupled with his constant excuses about being bad at doing stuff on this site. That on top of the vibes and stuff from early days (pretty much everyone GTH'd him as scum when we played that game on D5, including JoH).
In defense, JoH says the kill choices are not what he'd expect. I already responded to this.

The case on DH is unclear to me. Unhelpful to town, a downer, hypocritical maybe in places? It's not a horrible case, but I have a better handle on the K-ness one.

linki: yas silencing is annoying

Spoiler: show

Speedchuck now doesn't know why people are voting for DH....but he knew why earlier. In fact, he came up with other reasons DH is bad on his own but those reasons are forgotten in this moment because it's important that the Kness case, however weak, is stronger than the DH case. So he just forgets the DH case.

In conclusion, Speedchuck voted for Kness because he wanted to, not because he thought there was a good case for Kness being scum, he choose to not vote for DH despite seeing the evidence against him and later pretended the case didn't exist, attempted to buddy me (instead of seeing me as a teammate to be trusted) and tried continually to lead the lynch into Kness, a tie (where GM could cause a town lynch) or basically anywhere that wasn't DH.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:41 am

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:20 pm I'm 2 pages behind, and might not have time to catch up before deadline after work, can someone tell me what the case on kness even is? I think I get the gist of the Dharma Helper stuff

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:02 pm x_x

i was holding my vote off so i could counter gemini man's vote if they showed up, and ended up losing chicken with the countdown clock

idk man... looking through your ISO you express plenty of negative thoughts on DH while simultaneously not seeming to feel the KNess case. So... where were you going to vote?

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:06 pm Yeah I see how that could have been your plan... I'm just not sure I believe you

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:12 pm Anyways Kyle I think we should vote DH today whatcha say

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:43 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:06 pm Yeah I see how that could have been your plan... I'm just not sure I believe you

it was my plan, I just hesitated too much and missed it.

if my missing the vote were a purposeful action to protect DH like you're implying, don't you think it would have been easier to just vote for K-Ness, or even just not show up in the thread at all?

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:01 pm Oh yeah PS the Dom/DF/Soneji spots are interchangeable if that wasn't obvious.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:02 pm

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:01 pm Oh yeah PS the Dom/DF/Soneji spots are interchangeable if that wasn't obvious.

But you legitimately trust Dr Wilgy less than all the active players?

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:06 pm it's still broken, help

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:09 pm @Kylemii

Paint me a pretty rainbow, please. Gimmie all your best tinfoil, too.

i feel like I trust epignosis but I don't remember why or if it was for a good reason.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:42 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:09 pm @Kylemii

Paint me a pretty rainbow, please. Gimmie all your best tinfoil, too.

I'm working on a rainbow list but I'm realizing that it will have more value later on. there's a few reads that I want to look back over some isos with to see if they still hold up. like I.e. i feel like I trust epignosis but I don't remember why or if it was for a good reason. also i want to take a nap cus I'm sleepy

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:54 pm Continuing the Kylemii ISO analysis...

On Day 4 Kyle finally puts out some minimal opinions/analysis. It's on Marmot, and his vote cast on Marmot, the last vote of five for him. On the surface, that's a very good look for Kyle. I can't find his vote post, so I presume he voted for Marmot around when he was talking about Marmot. However, if some background machinations were afoot (like DH being bad Cut Man), then it could be all for show.

This is Kyle's next venture into relevant game-solving dialogue. It's not bad looking, but by this time Marmot might have been full-on telling his teammates to bus him because his lynch seemed pretty inevitable.

Day 6 Kyle touches lightly on topics a couple of times. Couple of posts about not liking DharmaHelper's attitude, but nothing about his alignment. Ends up voting Bullzeye with as little discussion or reasoning as possible. Nothing in Day 6 impresses upon me that Kyle is Civ at all.

Going out to dinner, continue with this later. Right now Kyle is very easy to see as a baddie, and his only redeeming moment is tying up the Simon-Marmot vote by voting Marmot.

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:26 pm ISO yourself then

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:59 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:26 pm ISO yourself then

no? that doesn't seem like a valuable use of time

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:48 pm your perception of reality is valid, I'm not saying it isn't. I'm saying I remember participating more than that. Maybe I didn't. It's not really important. But I'm not gonna spend time looking at my own posts when it would be better spent looking at other players or also doing literally anything else.

I'm not going to apologize or accept criticism for asking a lot of questions. That's how I interact with the thread and the game cus it's what works for me.

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:26 pm ISO yourself then

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:13 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:48 pm your perception of reality is valid, I'm not saying it isn't. I'm saying I remember participating more than that. Maybe I didn't. It's not really important. But I'm not gonna spend time looking at my own posts when it would be better spent looking at other players or also doing literally anything else.

I'm not going to apologize or accept criticism for asking a lot of questions. That's how I interact with the thread and the game cus it's what works for me.

I'd feel better about your questions if there were a progression like ask - get answer - discuss answer, but when I see ask - get answer - no follow-up, surely you can understand why that looks more like post-padding and faux-participation.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:19 pmHe feels reactionary.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:19 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:26 pm ISO yourself then

Lol, so as grouchy as this comment appears... I have to agree with LC. I wasn't expecting much from Kyle's ISO in the way of serious or lengthy content, but I still wound up slightly disappointed by it. When Kyle does bring up an ontopic point it tends to be insightful, but I also get the feeling like he's maybe avoided being directly involved in the lynches or chasing suspects. He feels reactionary.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:34 pm i promise the only thing you're finding here in me is a flaw in my gameplay that gets brought up in almost every game

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:34 pm i promise the only thing you're finding here in me is a flaw in my gameplay that gets brought up in almost every game