The Syndicate

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:26 pm**

So looks like we can't trust thread consensus at all

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:27 pm**

Boquise wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:15 pmthere are some differences like level of engagement and takes i think, but there is a good point you show there in your quote. But why is it unlikely that a scum says that?

It's not impossible. But I think Dizzy's statement is something that wolves will often gloss over because they know the premise isn't true, rather than try to give themselves credit for it.

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:30 pm**

I'm wondering who is wolfier between Boq and JJJ. I don't want another mislynch.

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:31 pm**

[VOTE: Boquise] aubergine

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:48 pm**

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:02 pm
NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:57 am
Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:20 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:13 pm I still think Creature's town tbh. I review two of his scum games and two of his town games in the last year, and his posting is far more in line with his town games. Specifically his paranoid complaints about mis-elimming at EOD. There's just none of that in his scum games, and quite a bit in his town games.

Town

Pandas vs Trash Pandas
RPG Mafia

Scum

Rings of Power
Fall of Númenor

Creature voters, I'm curious if you agree with this take.

@fingersplints @RondoDimBuckle @NateTheLesser

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:24 am @JaggedJimmyJay can I get your current read on Creature?
Can I ask why Creature is a priority for you to solve coming into today?

Creature is one of the few living players to have garnered wagons on them in this game.

I tagged those people because they all had EOD votes on him.

Yeah, I get that. But with the Ender miss, heading into the night phase, was Creature top of your list of players you need to look into? And what conclusions about gamestate etc are you drawing from that?

Also, to answer your actual ping, I honestly don't get much from meta ISOs of other games. Maybe other people do but I don't.

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:53 pm**

We can't afford infolynching anymore.

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:53 pm**

What's the reason to townread Rondo?

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:57 pm**

Creature wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:53 pm We can't afford infolynching anymore.

I agree! Did you read Boq's case? Do you still think Jay/Boq are paired?

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:07 pm**

Creature wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:30 pm I'm wondering who is wolfier between Boq and JJJ. I don't want another mislynch.

What led you to make your choice between these two names?

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:08 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:39 am There is one potential pairing of players in this game that interests me a great deal. I don't know yet what I will find when I dig, but I think it might prove pretty illuminating when I do dig. I won't say who that pairing is yet. Anyone is free to guess.

I'm going to set this aside for the moment. I have a different idea.

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:11 pm**

I'd like to look at a few players' ISOs, but with a different analytic objective than just making raw judgments. I'm going to draw from Sloonei (one of the best late game town players in all of forum Mafia) and take a different approach. I will presume a mafia agenda exists and then determine what it must be. Then I will decide how I feel about it.

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:32 pm**

Gonna see some godawful superhero movie wif me mates and then keep at it.

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:22 pm**

Boquise wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:31 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:49 am
Boquise wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:19 am This kill again points at 1 scum inside me/JJJ/Alison btw so I am feeling smug about being right there.
I don't disagree with your conclusion, but what makes you think the kill points that way?
Because scum is killing around us.

You think scum would kill any of the three of us over Dizzy even if we were all town? We all have considerably more heat than him, and he shielded Ender last day phase.

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:24 pm**

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:45 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:43 am
Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:34 am Also, why didn't you say anything to me when I made a full compilation of Sean's reads?
Because "normal player makes one post looking at a single player's reads, and then gives up" is regular behavior.

"Guy who pops in at odd times to shitpost and/or give oddball chaotic reads posts an entire page of very dense legacy interactions" is slightly odder behavior.

If it was Nate posting Rondo's analysis, I wouldn't have said anything, because it wouldn't strike me as strange or surprising. Again, my emphasis is on figuring out why this person is doing the thing they're doing, as opposed to nitpicking at the exact content.
Just because I act like a spaz doesn't mean I am.

Please do not use that word, thank you.

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:29 pm**

Boquise wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:57 pm So this one is cool. I am being shaded in the Ender w world, which is not weird because Alison has tried to pair me with Ender since iirc D1 or D2? What is weird though is that I am suddenly scum in the Ender V world too. I realise that the context in this post is "if Alison dies this is her legacy", but it is still a weird thought.

@Alison
1. Why am I wolf in the Ender v world?
2. Why would wolf I kill you in this world (which you imply)?
3. Why have you not pressed me that much today?

I might have misspoke or miswritten my post. My intention was always to clear you if Ender was wolf, because of the very same rationale that you later quote, re: you are supporting Ender's rival. Conversely, if Ender is town, then you look scummier because you sided against him.

Yes, I sided against Ender too. I am privileged enough to know that my suspicion came from a townie place. I am attempting to figure out who else alongside me on the wagon had bad intentions.

I have not pressed you that much today because a lot of this analysis goes out the window if Jay is also town. I am/was working under the presumption that Ender/Jay is a difference check, and have acted accordingly. If I was wrong about this, then many of my reasons to suspect you aren't as strong. (eg. your towncase on Jay is a lot less scummy in a town Jay world) At any rate I think I am always voting out Jay before you just on pure scum equity.

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:34 pm**

Boquise, do you still townread Jay after the flips?

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:19 pm**

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:33 am
Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:30 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:17 am
Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:13 am Usually when you imply something, you don't say it, you just imply it.
I meant "what made you think I meant to imply your approach was bullshit".

I don't care about his approach. I don't think it's "bullshit", and as Rondo himself suggests, I've been known to use it myself. I'm more interested in understanding why he chose now to use it, and what made him decide to start doing detailed legacy analyses all of a sudden when he has been posting off the cuff for the rest of the game.
What do you think of his explanation?

Also what do you think of the hostility he showed toward you in that response?
His explanation was acceptable, if he was going for an overlap approach. I don't know why he couldn't have done it slightly earlier (eg. he could have overlapped Mac and Seanzie's reads yesterday), but he seemd a little busy D3 so I guess it makes sense.

I don't know what to make of the hostility. Gun to head, I don't think it's scummy, as a mafia Rondo would be fairly deep here and wouldn't want to make waves or make enemies. I'd like him to explain it more, though, because it seemed to come out of nowhere.

Finally found it, locating posts on the phone is balls

The hostility comes from someone in my Poe putting a perceived light sus on my reads which I am not having. Especially when they use the same format themselves. So your question seemed to be coming from a disingenuous place

As for why now? I didn't feel like I had enough information n=1 is basically random and statistically insignificant. N=2 is a line plot and won't show a circle. Now n=3 which can show patterns.

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:21 pm**

Boquise wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:45 pm
RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:43 pm
NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:28 pm @RondoDimBuckle can you explain your chart a bit? The numbers are how many times players were on the same wagon at EOD? What do the colors mean?

Also @JaggedJimmyJay do you have an updated version of your interaction chart?
Basically people voting together for pairing purposes on its own its kinda useless but it helps highlight possibilities for me. The colours are the increased % of always voting together, grey is never voted together but for lucy and boq they are one step higher because of a missing day.
But I did not miss a day.
Yesterday I was scum read for parking my vote on Marmot. Iirc you were one of those accusers.
And now that vote doesnt exist.

That is not a game i will play tbh

I was reviewing the screenshot from host on page 1

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:23 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:27 pm Rondo, I flat don't understand your posts. I mean no offense, it's just confusing to me. If there's something you want me to talk about, I will need you to clarify and make explicit.

I need more than just "I am confused"

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:25 pm**

Boquise wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:42 pm
RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:38 pm
Boquise wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:36 pm
RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:19 am
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:21 pm I think it's funny that with the exception of boq, all my scum reads are on me.

Oh well. Yeet Ender when I'm gone.
Evidence against Boq
How is this evidence against me?
I think I go over it later because it doesn't make sense with another post so this on its own I lost confidence in
Sounds like a cop-out tbh
No, tell me how Wilgy saying that I am their only NON-scum read who is voting them, is evidence against me tbh. I want to understand where that thought sparked from when you read that specific post. Or are you saying that you immediately connected that post with another? If so I need to see that post too tbh

Ohhhh, ok. It was late last night and I thought it was saying that he scum read you but you weren't voting him not he town reads you even though you are voting him. Thanks for the clarification

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:29 pm**

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:48 pm
RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:43 pm
NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:28 pm @RondoDimBuckle can you explain your chart a bit? The numbers are how many times players were on the same wagon at EOD? What do the colors mean?

Also @JaggedJimmyJay do you have an updated version of your interaction chart?
Basically people voting together for pairing purposes on its own its kinda useless but it helps highlight possibilities for me. The colours are the increased % of always voting together, grey is never voted together but for lucy and boq they are one step higher because of a missing day.
And the numbers you compiled after the chart were trying to count up the town/scum reads of the dead players?

If you feel like doing it, I'd be interested in the numbers if you only take into account Mac/Sean/Dizzy, since those are the players the wolves directly removed from the game (eg maybe they had overlapping suspicions that were correct).

Yeah the numbers are also weighted evidence for how current/strong the read is. I gave less weight to seanzie and wigly than I gave to ender and dizzy and more than I gave to mac and falcon

You can run it yourself I post the evidence and the maths, but I will do it later when I am home if you haven't. But its a good thought. I have my worries about you but I can't get distracted, the same with finger. I have resolved to only look at these 5 for now

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:33 pm**

Boquise wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:03 pm
Boquise wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:42 pm
RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:38 pm
Boquise wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:36 pm
RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:19 am
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:21 pm I think it's funny that with the exception of boq, all my scum reads are on me.

Oh well. Yeet Ender when I'm gone.
Evidence against Boq
How is this evidence against me?
I think I go over it later because it doesn't make sense with another post so this on its own I lost confidence in
Sounds like a cop-out tbh
No, tell me how Wilgy saying that I am their only NON-scum read who is voting them, is evidence against me tbh. I want to understand where that thought sparked from when you read that specific post. Or are you saying that you immediately connected that post with another? If so I need to see that post too tbh

Middle of the Aussie work day so delays are to be expected

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:34 pm**

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:07 pm
Boquise wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:03 pm
Boquise wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:42 pm
RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:38 pm
Boquise wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:36 pm
RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:19 am
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:21 pm I think it's funny that with the exception of boq, all my scum reads are on me.

Oh well. Yeet Ender when I'm gone.
Evidence against Boq
How is this evidence against me?
I think I go over it later because it doesn't make sense with another post so this on its own I lost confidence in
Sounds like a cop-out tbh
No, tell me how Wilgy saying that I am their only NON-scum read who is voting them, is evidence against me tbh. I want to understand where that thought sparked from when you read that specific post. Or are you saying that you immediately connected that post with another? If so I need to see that post too tbh

I think one of you is mis-reading it. "...with the exception of Boq, all my scum reads are on me" I initially read as "all my scum reads except Boq are on me", which would imply you are a scum read. But you were voting for Wilgy there, so I think he meant "all my voters are scum reads except for Boq".

Yeah I didn't have the full thread open just his iso so it was a misread

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:36 pm**

Boquise wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:08 pm
NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:05 pm
Boquise wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:28 pm
NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:15 pm
Boquise wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:19 am Hi.
Don't think for a second that I didn't see how several players last EOD tried to chainsaw me into an Ender yeet with "if Ender flips town Boq is wolf".

I am surprised I have zero votes and JJJ is getting heat, but I'm going to give everyone who said that homework. Explain why you thought so.

This kill again points at 1 scum inside me/JJJ/Alison btw so I am feeling smug about being right there.

Also. I am only 20 pages left to be done with reading the MU qualis. I am going to have a headache for a wee while afterwards, but it also mean that today I will be able to play with much more ease. Sorry woofs tbh
The impression I was left with after your interactions with JJJ yesterday was that it was two town players who somewhat reluctantly found each other after some mutual suspicion. And reading you both as town is a big factor in my view of the gamestate today. So I'm wondering if you see the "olive branch" the same way you did yesterday?
yea
Okay, so FMPOV if you two are town then I only need 2 more town and I can chop the rest. What do you think of Lucy? Because I still think she's town.
I am no longer sure on Lucy and might have a spicy take on her tbh
I still think Fingers is town and so is Rondo though his posts against me are a bit wolfy

You don't think reconsidering the whole game state isn't important after 6 town down?

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:54 pm**

If I missed anything important please retag lunch over

Posted: **Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:36 pm**

New Thor movie is even worse than expected

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:07 am**

To ensure I am not misunderstood in this post, I am following this method (click) to presume a mafia agenda. That means I will be theorizing a mafia-aligned purpose for the posts I encounter. That doesn't mean necessarily that I think it's correct or true. It's a way of exploring a possible world both analytically and emotionally.

Creature

Spoiler: show

Creature the mafioso had every intent of meeting his classic town volume tells but simply wasn't able to force himself through to the WIM necessary to achieve it.

Spoiler: show

Creature the mafioso issues this vague shade at unnamed player(s) to dampen the attitude of collaboration and perhaps try to erode trust in those who are vocal and eager to solve.

Spoiler: show

Case in point.

Spoiler: show

This provides nice slank cover when you never think a game is going in a good direction.

Spoiler: show

If Nate is town, then this kind of vote is about as token as it gets for the mafioso. He is understated, formal, and new to the community, so he is a pretty easy target and less likely to draw controversy when you push him.

Spoiler: show

For Creature the mafioso this serves as a generic pocket. It's also not entirely a reflection of where Creature has been in his assessment of the gamestate at other junctures of even the same day phase.

Spoiler: show

Creature strikes me as someone who is considerate of LHF, so to have three people in this theoretical team that [at the time] could be called potential LHF could be run-of-the-mill mafia indicative.

Spoiler: show

omgus

Spoiler: show

The sentence at the bottom tells the story for Creature the mafioso. The game's most contrarian player provided a very with-the-grain set of early town reads. Of the five not-Creature-himself reads, four are still alive (the other is Mac).

Spoiler: show

EOD1's version of Creature's disdainful posts. Creature the mafioso had a hand in creating this gamestate per the previous sets of reads.

Spoiler: show

Creature the mafioso has a sense of humor.

Spoiler: show

Creature the mafioso is content to punt on late Day 2. Three votes, three town, and again the token pre-mischop despairing.

Spoiler: show

Right back to it at the start of Day 3.

Spoiler: show

Creature the mafioso still has a sense of humor.

Spoiler: show

Creature the mafioso is forced to provide an explanation for a poorly faked read.

Spoiler: show

"lack of any other option" -- Creature the mafioso plays some role in the generation of an unfavorable gamestate and then handwaves town misteps as though they were unavoidable. Poll dynamics suggest this is untrue.

Spoiler: show

Creature the mafioso has grumbled about LHF chops repeatedly, and when presented with two options that are distinctly "high" hanging fruits he goes full waffle. The agenda of actions is distinct from the agenda of words.

Spoiler: show

If Creature the mafioso is a thing, Alison the mafioso fits quite well.

Spoiler: show

Straight into this on Day 4.

Does this mafia agenda make sense?

Technically, sure. It wouldn't be a "shocking" mafia agenda. There were some little points where I felt a little bit silly presuming the mafia agenda, particularly in the earliest portions of his posts. So some of these points are not compelling to me. If there's a lasting concern here, it's that I think there's been a little distance separating Creature's lamentations about the game state and Creature's actual pushes and votes. The game state is as much his own as it is most others'.

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:08 am**

Not entirely sure how I feel about this exercise, as I acknowledge the bias that is quite literally and deliberately built into it. However, it still might help to split the necessary hairs in the current player list. As always I welcome thoughts, about Creature above and about others I explore to come.

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:38 am**

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:48 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:02 pm
NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:57 am
Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:20 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:13 pm I still think Creature's town tbh. I review two of his scum games and two of his town games in the last year, and his posting is far more in line with his town games. Specifically his paranoid complaints about mis-elimming at EOD. There's just none of that in his scum games, and quite a bit in his town games.

Town

Pandas vs Trash Pandas
RPG Mafia

Scum

Rings of Power
Fall of Númenor

Creature voters, I'm curious if you agree with this take.

@fingersplints @RondoDimBuckle @NateTheLesser

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:24 am @JaggedJimmyJay can I get your current read on Creature?
Can I ask why Creature is a priority for you to solve coming into today?

Creature is one of the few living players to have garnered wagons on them in this game.

I tagged those people because they all had EOD votes on him.

Yeah, I get that. But with the Ender miss, heading into the night phase, was Creature top of your list of players you need to look into? And what conclusions about gamestate etc are you drawing from that?

Also, to answer your actual ping, I honestly don't get much from meta ISOs of other games. Maybe other people do but I don't.

I'm trying to get current reads on a $#%@ing player, which is apparently very impossible to gather

Answer the question please.

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:48 am**

Sorry for being snappy.

I don't trust a word you say Nate because you started the day with a post that flipped a townread on me, indicated that you had not read anything overnight to indicate a change in stance, then said you were going to go find evidence to back it up.

It looks like an agenda to me, and even leaked out in your post. And it's been over 24 hours since your vote was placed, and you have not pursued finding any evidence to support said change in stance as you said you would.

Creature has been a point of contention in this game. I still think there is reason to believe he is town. Several other players apparently do not, including you. I would like to know what your read on him is at this moment.

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:50 am**

EWBOP: several other players in this game have not believed that Creature is town.

I want to know where those stances sit now.

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:50 am**

[VOTE: Nate] aubergine

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:27 am**

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:48 am Sorry for being snappy.

I don't trust a word you say Nate because you started the day with a post that flipped a townread on me, indicated that you had not read anything overnight to indicate a change in stance, then said you were going to go find evidence to back it up.

It looks like an agenda to me, and even leaked out in your post. And it's been over 24 hours since your vote was placed, and you have not pursued finding any evidence to support said change in stance as you said you would.

Creature has been a point of contention in this game. I still think there is reason to believe he is town. Several other players apparently do not, including you. I would like to know what your read on him is at this moment.

Work rudely decided to make me actually do things today.

I'm reevaluating a lot of people, not just you. The long and short of it is, I came out of yesterday townreading Boq and Jay; I still townread Lucy (though I wish she'd actually get involved); and I think at least one of Finger/Creature is town (I lean Finger at this point). That gives me all the town I need for a winning POE of you/Alison/Rondo/(the other of Finger/Creature). So that's where I'm at today, and I need to see if it holds up.

The thing I didn't find convincing about your Fingersplints towncase, and what you've now done with Creature as well, is that it's all meta. I asked you a couple times to point to Fingersplints posts in this game that you liked, but you didn't (that I saw). If there are posts that you think show Creature is town, I'd like to see them. It's not difficult to find posts of his that are anti-town at best. Like this progression is one that has stuck in my mind:

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:51 pm Is there a good case for Fingersplints? I'm not sure if I can read them.

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:57 pm Whatever

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 4:05 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:51 pm Is there a good case for Fingersplints? I'm not sure if I can read them.
This is Alison's case:
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:52 am fingersplints' ISO:

Nate has identified #1325 as a particularly sketchy post, because it shifts responsibility for the falcon exe onto Mac, and also hedges her own stance on falcon. I tend to agree with Nate here, and think it's a bad look for fingersplints.

I didn't like #1363 either. She says that she's contemplating where we should vote if we misexe on D1, but there's no followup, and I don't see her talking about the results of this contemplation later on, even where it is appropriate and natural to do so (eg. in #1458 where she is talking about how she wouldn't mind a falcon flip as it would give lots of interactives to figure out where to vote next). Alarmingly, she also does not bring up the results of this contemplation when we do end up missing D1. This suggests that she was just saying it to look like she was solving without actually putting in real analysis or thought into where we should go if our D1 flips green.

I didn't like #2012 either because it looks like her taking a cheap shot at Boquise's attempts to read into Mac's legacy. I'm generally pretty skeptical of discrediting a strong townie's legacy completely or brushing off nightkills as "who knows?" without at least trying to read into them.

She then proceeds to claim that she thought Boquise was treated as null by the rest of the thread, when in my view he was clearly being treated as consensus town. This might be a good sign for her, because it suggests that she is distinctly uninformed: I think she would likely know how the thread is treating Boquise more accurately if she was in scum chat and had partners to catch her up.

In #2128, she says she's interested in taking a closer look at Creature, but then doesn't mention Creature again. Votes for Dizzy instead in #2133 - which is a reasonable vote, but her interest in Creature seems to have mysteriously vanished.

-

Overall, I'd say that I came out of fingersplints' ISO with a markedly worse impression of her before. I broadly agree with Nate's claim that her vote on falcon was hedgy and accountability-dodging, and I'd add that at two separate points in the game she indicates she'll look into something and then never brings it up or mentions it again, even when it would be very natural to do so.

Based off this, I'd be happy to back a fingersplints wagon, and have her in my bottom POE.
Ender and Boq disagree.

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 4:09 pm Oh, Marmot also thinks Fingersplints is town.

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:37 pm
NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:36 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:22 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:00 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 4:59 pm [VOTE: Alison] aubergine
This may or may not be a good idea.

And a Wilgy/Creature vote may be safer
wtf I'm not a valid vote for today
You asked earlier what the case for Fingersplints was and I quoted Alison's ISO case for you. Did you see it?
Yes, but didn't read. Might consider.

Comes in asking if there's a case on Fingersplints. Votes Wilgy a few minutes later without getting an answer. I quote the case at him as well as who disagrees with it. Later he admits he didn't read it. It's pretty easy to wolfread that as someone who wants to move their vote to a better counterwagon but also seem like they're interested in solving.

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2022 3:02 am**

Creature wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:30 pm I'm wondering who is wolfier between Boq and JJJ. I don't want another mislynch.

Answer my questions.

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2022 3:04 am**

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:36 pm
Boquise wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:08 pm
NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:05 pm
Boquise wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:28 pm
NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:15 pm
Boquise wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:19 am Hi.
Don't think for a second that I didn't see how several players last EOD tried to chainsaw me into an Ender yeet with "if Ender flips town Boq is wolf".

I am surprised I have zero votes and JJJ is getting heat, but I'm going to give everyone who said that homework. Explain why you thought so.

This kill again points at 1 scum inside me/JJJ/Alison btw so I am feeling smug about being right there.

Also. I am only 20 pages left to be done with reading the MU qualis. I am going to have a headache for a wee while afterwards, but it also mean that today I will be able to play with much more ease. Sorry woofs tbh
The impression I was left with after your interactions with JJJ yesterday was that it was two town players who somewhat reluctantly found each other after some mutual suspicion. And reading you both as town is a big factor in my view of the gamestate today. So I'm wondering if you see the "olive branch" the same way you did yesterday?
yea
Okay, so FMPOV if you two are town then I only need 2 more town and I can chop the rest. What do you think of Lucy? Because I still think she's town.
I am no longer sure on Lucy and might have a spicy take on her tbh
I still think Fingers is town and so is Rondo though his posts against me are a bit wolfy
You don't think reconsidering the whole game state isn't important after 6 town down?

As you noticed, I am not one to shy away from pressuring you despite my read. However I also think it is important to hold on to reads you feel strongly about

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2022 3:04 am**

Boquise wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 3:02 am
Creature wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:30 pm I'm wondering who is wolfier between Boq and JJJ. I don't want another mislynch.
Answer my questions.

I asked you a question too Boq. (Do you still townread JJJ after the flips?)

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2022 3:06 am**

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:22 pm
Boquise wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:31 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:49 am
Boquise wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:19 am This kill again points at 1 scum inside me/JJJ/Alison btw so I am feeling smug about being right there.
I don't disagree with your conclusion, but what makes you think the kill points that way?
Because scum is killing around us.
You think scum would kill any of the three of us over Dizzy even if we were all town? We all have considerably more heat than him, and he shielded Ender last day phase.

That's a very fair point that I did not consider.
I think Dizzy was pretty pushable until yesterday, so sure, maybe he could be killed if all of us are town, but there's also the seanize kill

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2022 3:08 am**

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:29 pm
Boquise wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:57 pm So this one is cool. I am being shaded in the Ender w world, which is not weird because Alison has tried to pair me with Ender since iirc D1 or D2? What is weird though is that I am suddenly scum in the Ender V world too. I realise that the context in this post is "if Alison dies this is her legacy", but it is still a weird thought.

@Alison
1. Why am I wolf in the Ender v world?
2. Why would wolf I kill you in this world (which you imply)?
3. Why have you not pressed me that much today?
I might have misspoke or miswritten my post. My intention was always to clear you if Ender was wolf, because of the very same rationale that you later quote, re: you are supporting Ender's rival. Conversely, if Ender is town, then you look scummier because you sided against him.

Yes, I sided against Ender too. I am privileged enough to know that my suspicion came from a townie place. I am attempting to figure out who else alongside me on the wagon had bad intentions.

I have not pressed you that much today because a lot of this analysis goes out the window if Jay is also town. I am/was working under the presumption that Ender/Jay is a difference check, and have acted accordingly. If I was wrong about this, then many of my reasons to suspect you aren't as strong. (eg. your towncase on Jay is a lot less scummy in a town Jay world) At any rate I think I am always voting out Jay before you just on pure scum equity.

mmmm okay
I will need to look at what you have said is Jay's scum equity tbh

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2022 3:09 am**

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 3:04 am
Boquise wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 3:02 am
Creature wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:30 pm I'm wondering who is wolfier between Boq and JJJ. I don't want another mislynch.
Answer my questions.
I asked you a question too Boq. (Do you still townread JJJ after the flips?)

Yes, but I will still iso him and re-eval.

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2022 3:09 am**

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:21 pm
Boquise wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:45 pm
RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:43 pm
NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:28 pm @RondoDimBuckle can you explain your chart a bit? The numbers are how many times players were on the same wagon at EOD? What do the colors mean?

Also @JaggedJimmyJay do you have an updated version of your interaction chart?
Basically people voting together for pairing purposes on its own its kinda useless but it helps highlight possibilities for me. The colours are the increased % of always voting together, grey is never voted together but for lucy and boq they are one step higher because of a missing day.
But I did not miss a day.
Yesterday I was scum read for parking my vote on Marmot. Iirc you were one of those accusers.
And now that vote doesnt exist.

That is not a game i will play tbh
I was reviewing the screenshot from host on page 1

Okay, but I voted Marmot.

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2022 3:12 am**

@Creature if you are town you will actually have to play ball with me instead of crying doom. Why am I wolf because Ender flipped town? Explain your thought process.

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2022 3:12 am**

Because if I get misyeeted today my legacy right now will be that you are scum. So you better get to it tbh.

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2022 3:20 am**

Boquise wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 3:06 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:22 pm
Boquise wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:31 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:49 am
Boquise wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:19 am This kill again points at 1 scum inside me/JJJ/Alison btw so I am feeling smug about being right there.
I don't disagree with your conclusion, but what makes you think the kill points that way?
Because scum is killing around us.
You think scum would kill any of the three of us over Dizzy even if we were all town? We all have considerably more heat than him, and he shielded Ender last day phase.
That's a very fair point that I did not consider.
I think Dizzy was pretty pushable until yesterday, so sure, maybe he could be killed if all of us are town, but there's also the seanize kill

I think it's fair to say the Seanzie kill points there. I was curious why you thought the Dizzy kill points there too.

I don't disagree that there is very likely a scum in us three.

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2022 3:48 am**

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:20 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:13 pm I still think Creature's town tbh. I review two of his scum games and two of his town games in the last year, and his posting is far more in line with his town games. Specifically his paranoid complaints about mis-elimming at EOD. There's just none of that in his scum games, and quite a bit in his town games.

Town

Pandas vs Trash Pandas
RPG Mafia

Scum

Rings of Power
Fall of Númenor

Creature voters, I'm curious if you agree with this take.

@fingersplints @RondoDimBuckle @NateTheLesser

I just realised I didn't reply to this @ at best I will read when I get home and at worst I won't read it. I really don't like reading other games. This game is the only one that matters right now. If you get what I mean. Anything else is a form of wifom. But if its short I might give it a go later

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2022 5:18 am**

Boquise wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 3:09 am
RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:21 pm
Boquise wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:45 pm
RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:43 pm
NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:28 pm @RondoDimBuckle can you explain your chart a bit? The numbers are how many times players were on the same wagon at EOD? What do the colors mean?

Also @JaggedJimmyJay do you have an updated version of your interaction chart?
Basically people voting together for pairing purposes on its own its kinda useless but it helps highlight possibilities for me. The colours are the increased % of always voting together, grey is never voted together but for lucy and boq they are one step higher because of a missing day.
But I did not miss a day.
Yesterday I was scum read for parking my vote on Marmot. Iirc you were one of those accusers.
And now that vote doesnt exist.

That is not a game i will play tbh
I was reviewing the screenshot from host on page 1
Okay, but I voted Marmot.

If that is missing from the screenshot then I apologise and naturally my evaluation changes for that. But if it is. I dont know either I didnt see it or I am scummy for omitting it

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2022 5:41 am**

Yes. I am going to actively defend Cobalts slot now. I wanted him for 3 days and for 3 days no one wanted him. So he is town now. Thank you. Good bye

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2022 5:42 am**

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 5:41 am Yes. I am going to actively defend Cobalts slot now. I wanted him for 3 days and for 3 days no one wanted him. So he is town now. Thank you. Good bye

Delete this pls

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2022 5:47 am**

Ok well I got home and no new posts so I am going out tonight. Talk soon

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2022 6:28 am**

GTH who is the exact mafia team?

Everyone pls answer

Posted: **Fri Jul 08, 2022 6:30 am**

I say exact because I don’t want this to be like the POE where there is an extra person or any well if I’m wrong about this person than this person.
I think this will be interesting to compare

The Syndicate

Halvøsen Ridge [MAFIA WIN]

Re: Halvøsen Ridge [DAY 4]

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