The Syndicate

Why did I write anterior when I meant ulterior? Yeeesh.

man if beluga whale ends up being mafia like alison was mafia in space invaders or dizzy was mafia in lion king ill just give up on trying to pretend i understand anything about mafia and ill just accept its just a social game to have fun chatting with ppl and nothing more

(if hes town i might keep some delusions of grandeur tho!)

mafia is a team game. this is something i receive evidence of game after game but im not incorporating it enough.

[mention]Benson[/mention] whatever your read on master radishes it, i will blindly believe it and follow it. i think ur town, and u seem to know him well

[mention]Dyslexicon[/mention] please read Hally for us. Hally is a Dizzy whisperer, would you say that Dizzy is a Hally whisperer?

Is anyone familiar enough with KZA? like, 5+ games, perferrably seen him as both alignments?

Ok so continuing ISOs as a catchup seems like it's gonna end poorly for me so I'll try to stay more current. Still want to ISO folks as a way of getting a base feel for people since I wasn't really reading the thread in realtime but I appreciate that it makes me hard to get a handle on.

colonialbobby you said in your second post that you read the entire thread (at that point) and then you started AGAIN re-reading (isoing) ppl to make reads.

why? why did u re-read what u had already read, why not just start writing real time at that time? would you call yourself a shy person?

I would call myself a very rusty person. I didn't read the thread live, I read it as a catchup and felt like a lot of it wasn't sinking in. I'm trying not to bounce off this game. So far I am failing

alright. well, good luck! believe in yourself and you will find the scum

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:14 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:22 pm Benson:

Spoiler: show

Benson wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:16 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:10 pm

Benson wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:08 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:06 pm

iaafr wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:58 pm i just reread the entire thread and wow im actually pretty scummy wonder how many people are scumreading me

actually i disagree? i thought u were kinda towny

why did u scumread yourself? i wanna argue your read on yourself

WAIT

OK, this might be wolfy.

I'm interested. Why is it wolfy?

I don't know if wanting to disagree and saying he's been towny feels natural. Like what was even towny anyways? Idk, that's obviously not a compelling argument.
But it's always easier for wolves to just pop-in to express disagreement in places where they *know* they are correct. You know?

Benson wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:44 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:33 pm 22/30

re: alison yes i understand that but i just thought it didnt make much sense to me to pre-emptively reveal your thoughts to someone you're trying to interrogate. id peronsally keep that to myself but i guess thats ujst me and i have no reason to believe this is scummy for u

re: benson i thought he was just free-flowy and trying to start conversations and stuff like that. he made the first post that broke the tone of the game from chit-chat to a serious post when he asked tims2upnothing about something that i forgot what was it but i remember thinking that i didnt think iaafr was interested the answer but he just asked to get the ball rolling at least thats the impressino i got but i didnt imemdiately say itt that i find it towny cuz i wasnt that confident but now i feel kinda cornered to say this?

edit linki (alisons's last post) i kinda agree that i also feel a bit sketched out. he could be town and that could just be humor but idk

I mean, you were confident enough to stop iaarf to tell him you disagreed and thought he was towny.
I won't push this point any further because it is very minor, but I personally don't think that felt like a genuine read.

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:48 am

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:59 am 29/30

tr on proto, i think he believes the stuff he believes. (u can call this sort of a meta read). if ur unsatisfied with this explanation u can ask me for further stuff to say

i have 2 choices for alison. 1) tr her for her enthusiasm to try to catch me scum or 2) scumread her if i put the bar a little higher and expect her to not make overly wrong reads on me. and i think her second post saying "town tutuu does X and scum tutuu does Y" was silly considering the game was like 30-40 posts in none of my friends had even posted by that point AND also the fact that she has never seen me play mafia so idk how could she say with confidence what would maf tutuu do. Despite her being wrong on both of these stuff gth i still wanna call her town. perhaps part of ot could be rock-paper-scissors fallacy (i just invented this fallacy). basically rock paper scissors is down to luck, but also not. so in this context i think that if alison rolled mafia against me this game and she saw that i was town, i think her approach wouldnt be to start by making an illogical push on me (this is the rock paper scissors). so she can b lean town

i also slightly wanna tr nanook primarily cuz he called me town and i liked it.

i read ur stuff about tim, amy, and respectfully i will disagree, ive never played with him b4 but i still think i saw a town posting town stuff, so

Reads:
tutuu
proto

tim
alison

nanook

rest

I wanted to question why you felt you absolutet needed to resolve Alison into a TR or SR, but the deliberation you go through in this post feels really towny.


On a different note: nute's flip flopping is nutty.

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:10 pm Well my break was short lived.

I needed to return to tell you all that tutuu is now added to the town whale pod. The thought progression from post to post and within each post is just so villagery, even despite the weirdness of the more recent stuff.
Alison's application to the pod is pending.

I might be getting hard pocketed but let's ignore that for now.

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:49 pm disregard everything i said. an AWP cant kill the mafia fast enough. iaafr and nutella are both mafia. give me 10 seconds and i will find the other 2

4/60

AWP?

But iaafr and nutella being w/w is the spice I needed to marinate this D1. I have no opinion on the read itself but I like it.

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:17 pm i really desire to play mafia and to get in the thick of things and u know accusations throwing around AtE OMGUS lamist wifom all of those flying over my head like a bar brawl and suddenly there's a gangster right who shoots up the bar with a tommy gun but instead of bullet it flies tunneling, fake claiming, tmi, all those good stuff

whats the hold up lets brawl already please. iaafr obv mafia. nutella obv mafia. tutuu town. proto town. alison town. tim town. beluga whale town. nanook town. radish town. amy town.

anyone who disagrees with me is confirmed member of the mafia

anyone who agrees with me and has a gun please use it to shoot someone in our poe which we all reached a consensus on based off of our town core

6/60

Lmao. Epic.

Not that I think any of this is wolfy, but your tone has changed SO much from the player at the beginning of the game. What happened? Was it just that you became more comfortable in the game and in your reads that now you want to push the areas you think are promising?

Progression on tutuu - goes from light sus to town firm. Definitely could be genuine but... well let's keep going.

Spoiler: show

Benson wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:38 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:32 pm I actually think iaafr thinking his own play is scummy, and scrutinizing it, and half-jokingly(?) calling it scummy is pretty sketchy. On average, wolves tend to be far more aware of how scummy their posts look (with some exceptions), and they often see those posts as scummier than average because they're biased knowing their own alignment. Scumreading his own play is I think a pre-emptive thing to get ahead of people who might want to call those posts out and make them feel silly for doing so.

Normally, absolutely. But with iaafr I honestly don't know. He's rather unconventional, but I have only played with him once where he was town.

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:38 am

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:13 am

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:04 am Actually, I want to talk about proto's entrance because I'm surprised no one else is talking about that (unless I missed it). I'm talking specially about the self-conscious meta talk as the first thing they wrote.
Because on the surface it gives me super wolfy vibes, even if it was probably written by a villager *that just plays like that*. Anyone else put off by that or have a take on this?

I haven't started playing serious yet, but if I did it would be something I'd bring up too. Self-aware and some reads seem forced.

Scirrus' entrance also poor. Generic roleplay that attempts to disguise an uncomfortable thread entrance.

But I'm not playing serious yet, so I'll just have to wait to mention these thoughts until I am.

27

Well, I think this can be true; but I think you have to look at the type of player first. Because a player that is frequently scum read for doing ostensibly wolfy things as a villager will probably become over self-conscious in general. Because they obviously are worried about getting miselimed.
And I gather that this is the case, or might be. Correct me if I'm wrong.


Stop trying to not be serious while being serious imo.

I bet rabbit has 300 tabs open with the posts he's gonna make as soon as he's permitted.

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:08 pm Hi Dyslexicon! And anyone else that I haven't said anything to.

------

I hate slips but did WH slip?

WerewolfHunter wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:45 pm

WerewolfHunter wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:44 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:20 pm I didn't see a greeting post from you before that, are you sure you don't mean in the signup thread? lol

Yes, I'm pretty certain I did one

Maybe, I accidentally posted in wrong thread. Sorry about that. I was pretty certain that I had

Posted a greeting in the woofer chat instead and then thought you did that here as well?
How would you forget about that?

Idk, it's a reach for sure. Maybe the linki thing came up and she thought the post went through.

Ugh, I guess my next post may be my last for a while.

29

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:25 pm lol
I was just about to say I was concerned with Amy so far. Noticeable lack of engagement.

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:33 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:30 pm I'm not going to hard defend Amy, or anyone else at this point, but a scum case based on low motivation in a day zero is not making me jump for the torch and pitchfork either. I'll have a comprehensive reads post sometime about twenty real time hours into day one, but right now I have some first impressions at most.

I mean I have no real case on Amy. That's just an intuition read.

Send those impressions, imo.
The less well-thought-out the better.

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:45 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:39 pm

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:33 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:30 pm I'm not going to hard defend Amy, or anyone else at this point, but a scum case based on low motivation in a day zero is not making me jump for the torch and pitchfork either. I'll have a comprehensive reads post sometime about twenty real time hours into day one, but right now I have some first impressions at most.

I mean I have no real case on Amy. That's just an intuition read.

Send those impressions, imo.
The less well-thought-out the better.

I got towny feelies for you, Tutuu, Alison, Rabbit, and Nutella...mostly null on the rest of the people who posted...I'm trying to decide if what I said about Radishes is true. That was a really "towny mindset" post if he got there unconsciously...and I don't really know Radishes well enough to claim it was in his wolf range to fake like I said.

Unless you're reading that post deeper than I am, I don't see why it wouldn't be that hard for him to fake as wolf. He's a good wolf and can definitely fake a mindset like that.
That said, he generally gives me a good feeling so far.

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:58 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:56 pm Okay, so didn't overestimate the Master Radishes. Will keep in mind.

Feelies on Alison and Tutuu based on their initial clash being too attention grabby to be w/w, and Tutuu's reaction being too calm to be a wolf randomly tunneled by a villager friend.

Any thoughts here?

I think scum theater is in play, though unlikely. I agree with the latter assessment and overall I come out of D0 with a town lean on tutuu as well.

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:27 pm Regarding Amy's defense, I think it mostly doesn't change anything for me. I initially had a strong suspicious that it all felt wolfy and overly crafted and defensive, but I couldn't really justify that in words. So I don't have much else to say, other than rabbit's read sound plausible: unmotivated wolf lacked motivation to project town. I agree that Amy is probably the player that can easily fake whatever is needed to fake in the early game - and that's why I'm not pushing this much harder - but the motivation thing is a genuine tell. Like I'd 100% be less amped to be in the thread and post if I wasn't town right now. We'll see how the round unfolded. I do like the Amy is confident she'll project town before long.


Scirrus...I don't know what to say. I want to call the catch up posts wolfy but shouldn't because that probably stems from the fact that I don't particularly enjoy reading posts like that (when the quotes are sporadic, don't follow a central theme, and the responses aren't anything substantial. But I can't blame someone for not always being around to interact in real-time. Especially in this format.

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:57 am 4 wolves is what I'm assuming as well.

I have no read on rabbit admittedly. I have reasons to go in either direction but they aren't strong. I might try to ISO or something tonight.
One thing that bothered me specifically was him saying that he liked how I was staying on Amy and that it felt genuine. I can understand why you'd have reason to TR me and I don't know if that holds as one of them. Stuff like that kinda pings me as potentially non-genuine. Also starting to get paranoid pocket attempts are successfully being made (in general) but that's harder to substantiate.
Anyways, I'm on Amy and not Nutella right now for nebulous (or not) reasons. Nutella is worse by many measurements right now.

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:30 am

Scirrus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:41 am holy fuck is it 1:40

I need to go the fuck to bed

Sorry for the people who hate my posting style. I work late and I'm tired a lot and i'm slow at catching up, it's just the reality for me these days

I feel like voting MR because I disliked his "not serious" excuse while shading me and proto and his push on WH seemed opportunistic too

[VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine

I think people don't like your posting style because there is little coherency in the individual posts, making it difficult to read. Before you take that as an insult let me explain: obviously what you're saying on its own is coherently; but when you quote multiple unrelated posts from yesterday and comment on each one separately it becomes hard to follow. Like, I'm sure it's a useful exercise for yourself, but I personally can't get much out of those posts, which leads to that frustration. Sorry if that's too harsh. You can definitely keep doing your thing I don't think I'll be able to really read you properly until you put those scattered thoughts into one place and one conclusion. I mean, unless your goal is to hide behind those catch-up posts.

Scirrus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:46 am Actually I don't mind the wagons on Amy/Nutella either tbh.

Maybe it would be more productive to build these two up?

[VOTE: AMY] aubergine

Generally, I would find this towny. But when you say you're gonna do it, it kinda takes away.

Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one.

Scirrus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:47 am People that have played with Radishes before, what do you think of him so far?

I have the most experience with MR out of anyone here. I can tell you that you are justified in being suspicious right now.

Boy this is a lot of "hmm suspicious but not that suspicious idk" or "townie but also could be bad idk".

Spoiler: show

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:50 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:20 pm

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:04 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:05 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:57 am Guys I just realised our host needs to start his semifinal game in like four days.

Let's go for the sweep so he won't be distracted.

I played in a game that was hosted by a champs participant during their qualifying match. They did fine and directly advanced. I have every confidence that TSP can handle this.

Besides, for wolves even a sweep takes many days and you my dear root vegetable are far from a lock town at this point.

I like the insertion of that subtle assumption into the conversation though, even if I had to reject it. Points for effort.

28

This post seems kinda serious compared to what it's responding to. Hmm.



Mafia philosophical question: is intuition or rationality more important to you when forming reads? Or is that a bad dichotomy.

God, I hope we get to the next phase and I can post tonight.

It may be far less serious than it appears.

Or it may be highly nuanced. Perhaps...

It expresses support for and confidence in the host, possibly attempting to pocket him for reasons unknown.
It fires a warning shot across the bow for Master Radishes implying that his posts will be assessed with more than just a casual level of scrutiny.
It serves to warn other players that subtle assumptions made about innocuous posts can be used to influence their subsequent reads, and that a highly evolved wolf such as Master Radishes would be if he randed wolf may use such tactics.
It also serves as fair warning that if I had randed wolf I also am a wolf of that nature so should be handled carefully.
It produces the wifom that if I HAD randed wolf I would not want townies to start thinking on such subtle levels so I would have just let it pass, so it effectively town tells me.

Or it could have just been the setup line for a joke about common root vegetables and Master Radishes. I leave it to you to determine for yourself whether to treat me as a highly nuanced player looking five layers deep into every post made, or to treat me as a happy go lucky jokester giving a day zero exactly the minimal weight that it probably deserves.

Damn. I enjoyed my time trying to figure this post out :fry:
But I think you will be handled carefully, even if you are joking.

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:34 pm I have decided to go back to just posting things that are funny since apparently no one cared about what I thought.

I care, Tim. I care.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:30 pm tutuu is town for that massive wall of text with incredibly convoluted reasoning about my alignment. Wolves don't put their mind so deep into the weeds for someone whose alignment they already know.

I'm gut reading proto town.

MR and tim have some W/W equity for a very "theater"-like interaction.

Benson seems like he's lonely and trying to reach out to people, which is town. Also Benson, my experience with proto has led me to feel absolutely no discomfort at his "self-conscious meta talk". I get why you feel suspicious about it - I had similar thoughts on iaafr. I'm just saying, from my own meta experience it's not something I'm concerned about.

Impressively accurate soul read on me, tbh.

I know I wasn't very clear, but I'm not actually suspicious of proto. I just thought their entrance was something people would consider "classically wolfy" (like MR did) on the surface, despite that not necessarily being the case. I know some players have reason to act overly self-conscious as town as well. I'm glad your meta on them supports that.

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:11 pm Eh it's a reach because we don't have private threads like on MU, it's usually only on discord, so I don't think she'd confuse it. unless maybe replying to the host pm? More likely she's talking about the signup thread.

Ah gotcha. I didn't see anything in the signup thread that would makes sense as a greeting for the game, however.
I'm really sorry if this is getting angleshooty.



Some random reads before I have to leave:

Alison - Seems comfortable being in the driver's seat right now. I have no meta on her and she self-admittedly "likes to powerwolf", but her comfort level appears villagery. Her reads are good and the progression looks genuine at least.

Nutella - Kind of comes across like she's sheeping reads/ideas and then not following through or doing much about it. I know that's a harsh oversimplification but this is the abstraction I've made from reading her posts. Need more original takes.

Kza - Admittedly, I didn't notice the epicness of his "accuracy" joke earlier, haha. But seriously, I would think that he'd be posting more actual opinions or takes or anything if he's town here. If just seems like he doesn't know what to post or how to insert himself in any of the conversations.

Well this is it. Bye bye for now.

Spoiler: show

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:29 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:18 pm

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:21 pm clarifying that the first post was a meme (and therefore invalid reason to sus) is a bit on the flatly defensive side; that sort of sus couldve been handled in a lot more playful manner (this point might be the weakest).

i mean, in my personal opinion this is a reach. i saw it as clarification for the sake of clarification, ive flatly clarified a bunch of stuff already this game i feel like (and reminder im town) altho maybe they werent flat and i just cant accurately recognize how i come off as but. mm. idk, like, ... nvm actually u do say it yourself that this point might be weakest

i like the person with the whale avatar. was it benson? i like alison's tr on him alot.

looks like im in the minority but i kind of dislike nutella? (in the sense of not townreading her obviously!). i think that shes hard to read, finding her as town in pyre mafia wasnt easy, a lot of ppl were scumreading her but i managed to do it. and in this game i feel like if she's town it's ... even harder to find her? and everyone townreading her is just making me paused. am i in the wrong here to perceive nutella this way, or am i not? that is the question

1/60

Legit lold at the whale avatar thing. Names are forgettable but beluga whales are forever.

Spoiler: show

I don't know if you saw, but I've been lightly sussing nute so far. I've towned with her once before and I feel like I found her pretty quickly because she projected well with how villagery her stream-of-conscious posting came across. The constraints of this game are certainly different but I'm not seeing those towny thoughts. Like she's mainly just agreed or disagreed with things that others are saying. But maybe it was D0 and she didn't care that much?

I think I'll force myself to break for the night so I don't waste too many posts before the round has really started.

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:51 pm Of the less prominent players, I do agree that LC looks towny. I like his entire attitude so far.
But the rest are pretty null. I've honestly forgotten the posts of players like Proto and Colin. Actually Colin did say something that pinged me, where he dismissed the Amy wagon and supported the nutella suspicions (I think). I'd want to know more about that.

Nanook I'm probably going to have trouble reading because of how he plays. I think and hope he'll do more elaborating on his reads today.

Dyslexicon popped in to say something. I said 'hi' and he didn't say hi back so he's basically confirmed mafia.

Kza, like I said, is struggling to get involved in the game. Or he really doesn't care, but I would expect more if he's town here. GIVE ME SOMETHING KAZ.

-------------------

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:44 pm the strength of her insistence on the proto meta read is rubbing me the wrong way, maybe it's too easy to call it tmi but it does kinda remind me of how i sometimes whiteknight townies as scum

OMG, finally a towny take! (Not that I agree)


Tutuu, can you help us understand the meta read and what proto has done to fit that town meta?

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:51 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:20 am I also DO do shit D1, I explicitly believe in catching mafia D1, and, most importantly, I've been doing shit on D1 this game

I only remember some vague reads that were a while ago now. Have those changed? Are there new reads? Help me read you.

------------

Amy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:00 am actually yeah huh nutella never actually makes a post about my slot between saying she buys my defense and dropping me in the PoE. talk to me about myself nut. where am i at for you

also nutella/iaafr never w/w ever, if nutella's a wolf she absolutely TMI'd him v

11/60 remembering to include these is hard but remembering my post total without them is going to be harder

Not going to quote all your posts before here are my fast thoughts before I go to work.

The reaction vote and subsequent analysis is good. It's a genuine play and I think the your conclusions are ostensibly towny. That said, you may be looking too far into what is actually there, but I can't condemn you on that.

Now the reads list: it feels super convenient that your CW ends up as top scum. But I do share suspicions with the quote above, as much as it could easily be a twtbw thing.

Finally the intuition-read: I can't articulate why exactly right - or I'm too lazy too - but almost your entire game feels very crafted and agenda-y, as opposed to something naturally flowing. That's why I'm still on your wagon.

The villager appears to pour itself down, and indeed its villageryness pours in all direction, but the stream does not run out. This pouring is linear extension: that is why its beams are called rays, because they radiate in extended lines

OK I'll stop with the dumb quotes.


Also, the nutella wagon is feeling rather "easy". Like until MR, there was no actual resistance and basically everyone was like "yup nute is scummy". Maybe her teammates are bussers and low-posters but idk.


--------

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:46 am

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:10 am MR:
I'm town by post count...in a game where we're limited to 30 per 24 hours basically?

No. Are you trying to slander my wolf game indirectly? lol

Uh, yeah, you post less as a wolf. Sorry to burst that bubble for you. Here, you’re post-capping yourself, and perhaps more specifically your posts are all game-related, which is more what I meant anyway. You’re engaged. I know you hate when I call you the t-word because you never trust me in return, but too bad. Even your handling of me here fits with your town meta.

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:10 am Your PoE is also too easy for an MR PoE tbh

What is this, CDC?

Ah feck off. You haven't even seen me wolf in a while and the difference is marginal in terms of actual post count. Like it would be something like 90% of my town posting rate and that's not something that would show up in a 60 post-per-phase capped game.

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:55 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:17 am

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:04 am @Benson you seem to be here, yes?

I'm going to go eat lunch. Leave me a summary of why nutella? I got lazy when reading the pages I missed whilst sleeping and didn't pay attention.

You didn't ask me, and I'm sort of in morning catch up over breakfast mode, but since Benluga Whale didn't mention it...

My biggest, and probably only, problem with Nutella is her Amy read. It's maybe too small a problem to justify being on a four vote wagon but at this early stage it is more than I have on anyone else and she has thus far offered no explanation.

If you ISO her and specifically jump out for context when her Amy views shift there never seems to be any good reason...and her view shifts A LOT. It reads to me as (possibly) "is there really a chance to mischop a strong player like Amy day one here?" If Amy is not a wolf I KNOW that a Nutella wolf team would be overjoyed to get rid of her without an NK, but would also be wary about getting caught actively pushing such a wagon...and that's kind of the feeling I get from her.

Yeah, I didn't mention that read flip flop because I think it's pretty NAI for nutella. She tends to do that as town (the shifting views), so if anything it may be a good sign. But the point you bring up still seems reasonable - regarding her happily pushing a miselim on Amy if the support is there from others.

I really just want to know what nutella's follow up is to all that.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:25 am

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:40 am I'm overly focusing on radish because I know him the most, but he still truly doesn't sit well with me. Like I wouldn't expect a full reads list out of him this early before he's really done significant investigative work; and he evidently hasn't done that. The list just looks like work for the sake of work. Sorry, MR, if you're town and I'm disrespecting you right now.
My new spicy take is that if we're just totally on point with nutella, then maybe he's wolfing with her. Or maybe it's a TMI read so he can salvage some town equity is she's miselimed.

Who says I haven't done investigative work?

Of course you have done some. And I promise to look closely at your Scrirrus case tonight.
But, I expect you as town to do the ground-work before you come up with a big reads list. Like that's the type of thing I thought you would leave until last, when you've explored different topics and done some significant analysis. To lead with the readslist today is something that I can't help but be suspicious of. Because that's an easier way for wolves to re-introduce themselves into the thread and look like they've put in work. And it's also how they operate: start with the "reads" they want to push, and then find the justification/evidence post hoc.
Idk, maybe I'm totally off on that.

Some actual leans here, mostly unqualified. Case on Amy and reasons to be sus of KZA and Radishes. This is hunting. But then there's the nutella thing, and... well here:

Spoiler: show

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:51 pm Of the less prominent players, I do agree that LC looks towny. I like his entire attitude so far.
But the rest are pretty null. I've honestly forgotten the posts of players like Proto and Colin. Actually Colin did say something that pinged me, where he dismissed the Amy wagon and supported the nutella suspicions (I think). I'd want to know more about that.

Nanook I'm probably going to have trouble reading because of how he plays. I think and hope he'll do more elaborating on his reads today.

Dyslexicon popped in to say something. I said 'hi' and he didn't say hi back so he's basically confirmed mafia.

Kza, like I said, is struggling to get involved in the game. Or he really doesn't care, but I would expect more if he's town here. GIVE ME SOMETHING KAZ.

-------------------

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:44 pm the strength of her insistence on the proto meta read is rubbing me the wrong way, maybe it's too easy to call it tmi but it does kinda remind me of how i sometimes whiteknight townies as scum

OMG, finally a towny take! (Not that I agree)


Tutuu, can you help us understand the meta read and what proto has done to fit that town meta?

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:51 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:20 am I also DO do shit D1, I explicitly believe in catching mafia D1, and, most importantly, I've been doing shit on D1 this game

I only remember some vague reads that were a while ago now. Have those changed? Are there new reads? Help me read you.

------------

Amy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:00 am actually yeah huh nutella never actually makes a post about my slot between saying she buys my defense and dropping me in the PoE. talk to me about myself nut. where am i at for you

also nutella/iaafr never w/w ever, if nutella's a wolf she absolutely TMI'd him v

11/60 remembering to include these is hard but remembering my post total without them is going to be harder

Not going to quote all your posts before here are my fast thoughts before I go to work.

The reaction vote and subsequent analysis is good. It's a genuine play and I think the your conclusions are ostensibly towny. That said, you may be looking too far into what is actually there, but I can't condemn you on that.

Now the reads list: it feels super convenient that your CW ends up as top scum. But I do share suspicions with the quote above, as much as it could easily be a twtbw thing.

Finally the intuition-read: I can't articulate why exactly right - or I'm too lazy too - but almost your entire game feels very crafted and agenda-y, as opposed to something naturally flowing. That's why I'm still on your wagon.

The villager appears to pour itself down, and indeed its villageryness pours in all direction, but the stream does not run out. This pouring is linear extension: that is why its beams are called rays, because they radiate in extended lines

OK I'll stop with the dumb quotes.


Also, the nutella wagon is feeling rather "easy". Like until MR, there was no actual resistance and basically everyone was like "yup nute is scummy". Maybe her teammates are bussers and low-posters but idk.


--------

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:46 am

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:10 am MR:
I'm town by post count...in a game where we're limited to 30 per 24 hours basically?

No. Are you trying to slander my wolf game indirectly? lol

Uh, yeah, you post less as a wolf. Sorry to burst that bubble for you. Here, you’re post-capping yourself, and perhaps more specifically your posts are all game-related, which is more what I meant anyway. You’re engaged. I know you hate when I call you the t-word because you never trust me in return, but too bad. Even your handling of me here fits with your town meta.

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:10 am Your PoE is also too easy for an MR PoE tbh

What is this, CDC?

Ah feck off. You haven't even seen me wolf in a while and the difference is marginal in terms of actual post count. Like it would be something like 90% of my town posting rate and that's not something that would show up in a 60 post-per-phase capped game.

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:55 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:17 am

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:04 am @Benson you seem to be here, yes?

I'm going to go eat lunch. Leave me a summary of why nutella? I got lazy when reading the pages I missed whilst sleeping and didn't pay attention.

You didn't ask me, and I'm sort of in morning catch up over breakfast mode, but since Benluga Whale didn't mention it...

My biggest, and probably only, problem with Nutella is her Amy read. It's maybe too small a problem to justify being on a four vote wagon but at this early stage it is more than I have on anyone else and she has thus far offered no explanation.

If you ISO her and specifically jump out for context when her Amy views shift there never seems to be any good reason...and her view shifts A LOT. It reads to me as (possibly) "is there really a chance to mischop a strong player like Amy day one here?" If Amy is not a wolf I KNOW that a Nutella wolf team would be overjoyed to get rid of her without an NK, but would also be wary about getting caught actively pushing such a wagon...and that's kind of the feeling I get from her.

Yeah, I didn't mention that read flip flop because I think it's pretty NAI for nutella. She tends to do that as town (the shifting views), so if anything it may be a good sign. But the point you bring up still seems reasonable - regarding her happily pushing a miselim on Amy if the support is there from others.

I really just want to know what nutella's follow up is to all that.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:25 am

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:40 am I'm overly focusing on radish because I know him the most, but he still truly doesn't sit well with me. Like I wouldn't expect a full reads list out of him this early before he's really done significant investigative work; and he evidently hasn't done that. The list just looks like work for the sake of work. Sorry, MR, if you're town and I'm disrespecting you right now.
My new spicy take is that if we're just totally on point with nutella, then maybe he's wolfing with her. Or maybe it's a TMI read so he can salvage some town equity is she's miselimed.

Who says I haven't done investigative work?

Of course you have done some. And I promise to look closely at your Scrirrus case tonight.
But, I expect you as town to do the ground-work before you come up with a big reads list. Like that's the type of thing I thought you would leave until last, when you've explored different topics and done some significant analysis. To lead with the readslist today is something that I can't help but be suspicious of. Because that's an easier way for wolves to re-introduce themselves into the thread and look like they've put in work. And it's also how they operate: start with the "reads" they want to push, and then find the justification/evidence post hoc.
Idk, maybe I'm totally off on that.

So some light sus on nutella earlier, but really seems to jump back and forth. Looking for reasons to townread nutella? The Amy bit in the last post also doesn't really make sense - Benson just laid out a case for why Amy would be sus, but then now nutella is pushing for her miselim? Hmm.

Scumlean.

i don’t really get this read or what nut has to do with it. what is your read on her and how does that factor into your read on benson? it seems like you’re kinda tmi-ing nut town here by saying benson is pushing a mislim on nut even though you’ve yet to state a tr on nut

also i find it pingy that you’re sitting back doing iso’s on D1 instead of actually interacting itt

think you could be wolfing

That's not what I said re: benson/nut. In fact I'm basically accusing Benson of the same thing you're accusing me of - he had just laid out a case against Amy, and then immediately said he bought into the idea that nut was trying for a miselim of Amy.

Popping back in I have no self control.

Lol Tutuu. I'll feel the same way if you somehow flip mafia.

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:40 am mafia is a team game. this is something i receive evidence of game after game but im not incorporating it enough.

@Benson whatever your read on master radishes it, i will blindly believe it and follow it. i think ur town, and u seem to know him well

@Dyslexicon please read Hally for us. Hally is a Dizzy whisperer, would you say that Dizzy is a Hally whisperer?

Is anyone familiar enough with KZA? like, 5+ games, perferrably seen him as both alignments?

I'm going to spend a lot of time on radishes today. I'm not amazing at reading him or anything, but I have a bad feeling about him this game. He's usually someone I let pass until D2 or D3 because I'm apprehensive towards the risk. So if my vote ends on him then you can consider that a confident read.

I've played many games as KZA. I don't want to talk about this too much, but I know sometimes he gets discouraged (due to the game itself or real life) and that affects his enthusiasm to play. I also know he generally enjoys towning but doesn't really like wolfing.
I think I can usually read him quite well, generally. The strong SR that I acted like I had earlier was mainly for show and to see a reaction. I still haven't got anything from that and I don't know where to stand until he gets involved, which I really hope he does.

Amy made the accusation that he "doesn't play the game" and that is unfair because he certainly does play, just within his own style. I don't know what's going on this game, however.

colonialbob wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:07 am

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:14 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:22 pm Benson:

Spoiler: show

Benson wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:16 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:10 pm

Benson wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:08 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:06 pm

actually i disagree? i thought u were kinda towny

why did u scumread yourself? i wanna argue your read on yourself

WAIT

OK, this might be wolfy.

I'm interested. Why is it wolfy?

I don't know if wanting to disagree and saying he's been towny feels natural. Like what was even towny anyways? Idk, that's obviously not a compelling argument.
But it's always easier for wolves to just pop-in to express disagreement in places where they *know* they are correct. You know?

Benson wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:44 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:33 pm 22/30

re: alison yes i understand that but i just thought it didnt make much sense to me to pre-emptively reveal your thoughts to someone you're trying to interrogate. id peronsally keep that to myself but i guess thats ujst me and i have no reason to believe this is scummy for u

re: benson i thought he was just free-flowy and trying to start conversations and stuff like that. he made the first post that broke the tone of the game from chit-chat to a serious post when he asked tims2upnothing about something that i forgot what was it but i remember thinking that i didnt think iaafr was interested the answer but he just asked to get the ball rolling at least thats the impressino i got but i didnt imemdiately say itt that i find it towny cuz i wasnt that confident but now i feel kinda cornered to say this?

edit linki (alisons's last post) i kinda agree that i also feel a bit sketched out. he could be town and that could just be humor but idk

I mean, you were confident enough to stop iaarf to tell him you disagreed and thought he was towny.
I won't push this point any further because it is very minor, but I personally don't think that felt like a genuine read.

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:48 am

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:59 am 29/30

tr on proto, i think he believes the stuff he believes. (u can call this sort of a meta read). if ur unsatisfied with this explanation u can ask me for further stuff to say

i have 2 choices for alison. 1) tr her for her enthusiasm to try to catch me scum or 2) scumread her if i put the bar a little higher and expect her to not make overly wrong reads on me. and i think her second post saying "town tutuu does X and scum tutuu does Y" was silly considering the game was like 30-40 posts in none of my friends had even posted by that point AND also the fact that she has never seen me play mafia so idk how could she say with confidence what would maf tutuu do. Despite her being wrong on both of these stuff gth i still wanna call her town. perhaps part of ot could be rock-paper-scissors fallacy (i just invented this fallacy). basically rock paper scissors is down to luck, but also not. so in this context i think that if alison rolled mafia against me this game and she saw that i was town, i think her approach wouldnt be to start by making an illogical push on me (this is the rock paper scissors). so she can b lean town

i also slightly wanna tr nanook primarily cuz he called me town and i liked it.

i read ur stuff about tim, amy, and respectfully i will disagree, ive never played with him b4 but i still think i saw a town posting town stuff, so

Reads:
tutuu
proto

tim
alison

nanook

rest

I wanted to question why you felt you absolutet needed to resolve Alison into a TR or SR, but the deliberation you go through in this post feels really towny.


On a different note: nute's flip flopping is nutty.

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:10 pm Well my break was short lived.

I needed to return to tell you all that tutuu is now added to the town whale pod. The thought progression from post to post and within each post is just so villagery, even despite the weirdness of the more recent stuff.
Alison's application to the pod is pending.

I might be getting hard pocketed but let's ignore that for now.

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:49 pm disregard everything i said. an AWP cant kill the mafia fast enough. iaafr and nutella are both mafia. give me 10 seconds and i will find the other 2

4/60

AWP?

But iaafr and nutella being w/w is the spice I needed to marinate this D1. I have no opinion on the read itself but I like it.

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:17 pm i really desire to play mafia and to get in the thick of things and u know accusations throwing around AtE OMGUS lamist wifom all of those flying over my head like a bar brawl and suddenly there's a gangster right who shoots up the bar with a tommy gun but instead of bullet it flies tunneling, fake claiming, tmi, all those good stuff

whats the hold up lets brawl already please. iaafr obv mafia. nutella obv mafia. tutuu town. proto town. alison town. tim town. beluga whale town. nanook town. radish town. amy town.

anyone who disagrees with me is confirmed member of the mafia

anyone who agrees with me and has a gun please use it to shoot someone in our poe which we all reached a consensus on based off of our town core

6/60

Lmao. Epic.

Not that I think any of this is wolfy, but your tone has changed SO much from the player at the beginning of the game. What happened? Was it just that you became more comfortable in the game and in your reads that now you want to push the areas you think are promising?

Progression on tutuu - goes from light sus to town firm. Definitely could be genuine but... well let's keep going.

Spoiler: show

Benson wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:38 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:32 pm I actually think iaafr thinking his own play is scummy, and scrutinizing it, and half-jokingly(?) calling it scummy is pretty sketchy. On average, wolves tend to be far more aware of how scummy their posts look (with some exceptions), and they often see those posts as scummier than average because they're biased knowing their own alignment. Scumreading his own play is I think a pre-emptive thing to get ahead of people who might want to call those posts out and make them feel silly for doing so.

Normally, absolutely. But with iaafr I honestly don't know. He's rather unconventional, but I have only played with him once where he was town.

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:38 am

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:13 am

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:04 am Actually, I want to talk about proto's entrance because I'm surprised no one else is talking about that (unless I missed it). I'm talking specially about the self-conscious meta talk as the first thing they wrote.
Because on the surface it gives me super wolfy vibes, even if it was probably written by a villager *that just plays like that*. Anyone else put off by that or have a take on this?

I haven't started playing serious yet, but if I did it would be something I'd bring up too. Self-aware and some reads seem forced.

Scirrus' entrance also poor. Generic roleplay that attempts to disguise an uncomfortable thread entrance.

But I'm not playing serious yet, so I'll just have to wait to mention these thoughts until I am.

27

Well, I think this can be true; but I think you have to look at the type of player first. Because a player that is frequently scum read for doing ostensibly wolfy things as a villager will probably become over self-conscious in general. Because they obviously are worried about getting miselimed.
And I gather that this is the case, or might be. Correct me if I'm wrong.


Stop trying to not be serious while being serious imo.

I bet rabbit has 300 tabs open with the posts he's gonna make as soon as he's permitted.

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:08 pm Hi Dyslexicon! And anyone else that I haven't said anything to.

------

I hate slips but did WH slip?

WerewolfHunter wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:45 pm

WerewolfHunter wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:44 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:20 pm I didn't see a greeting post from you before that, are you sure you don't mean in the signup thread? lol

Yes, I'm pretty certain I did one

Maybe, I accidentally posted in wrong thread. Sorry about that. I was pretty certain that I had

Posted a greeting in the woofer chat instead and then thought you did that here as well?
How would you forget about that?

Idk, it's a reach for sure. Maybe the linki thing came up and she thought the post went through.

Ugh, I guess my next post may be my last for a while.

29

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:25 pm lol
I was just about to say I was concerned with Amy so far. Noticeable lack of engagement.

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:33 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:30 pm I'm not going to hard defend Amy, or anyone else at this point, but a scum case based on low motivation in a day zero is not making me jump for the torch and pitchfork either. I'll have a comprehensive reads post sometime about twenty real time hours into day one, but right now I have some first impressions at most.

I mean I have no real case on Amy. That's just an intuition read.

Send those impressions, imo.
The less well-thought-out the better.

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:45 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:39 pm

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:33 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:30 pm I'm not going to hard defend Amy, or anyone else at this point, but a scum case based on low motivation in a day zero is not making me jump for the torch and pitchfork either. I'll have a comprehensive reads post sometime about twenty real time hours into day one, but right now I have some first impressions at most.

I mean I have no real case on Amy. That's just an intuition read.

Send those impressions, imo.
The less well-thought-out the better.

I got towny feelies for you, Tutuu, Alison, Rabbit, and Nutella...mostly null on the rest of the people who posted...I'm trying to decide if what I said about Radishes is true. That was a really "towny mindset" post if he got there unconsciously...and I don't really know Radishes well enough to claim it was in his wolf range to fake like I said.

Unless you're reading that post deeper than I am, I don't see why it wouldn't be that hard for him to fake as wolf. He's a good wolf and can definitely fake a mindset like that.
That said, he generally gives me a good feeling so far.

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:58 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:56 pm Okay, so didn't overestimate the Master Radishes. Will keep in mind.

Feelies on Alison and Tutuu based on their initial clash being too attention grabby to be w/w, and Tutuu's reaction being too calm to be a wolf randomly tunneled by a villager friend.

Any thoughts here?

I think scum theater is in play, though unlikely. I agree with the latter assessment and overall I come out of D0 with a town lean on tutuu as well.

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:27 pm Regarding Amy's defense, I think it mostly doesn't change anything for me. I initially had a strong suspicious that it all felt wolfy and overly crafted and defensive, but I couldn't really justify that in words. So I don't have much else to say, other than rabbit's read sound plausible: unmotivated wolf lacked motivation to project town. I agree that Amy is probably the player that can easily fake whatever is needed to fake in the early game - and that's why I'm not pushing this much harder - but the motivation thing is a genuine tell. Like I'd 100% be less amped to be in the thread and post if I wasn't town right now. We'll see how the round unfolded. I do like the Amy is confident she'll project town before long.


Scirrus...I don't know what to say. I want to call the catch up posts wolfy but shouldn't because that probably stems from the fact that I don't particularly enjoy reading posts like that (when the quotes are sporadic, don't follow a central theme, and the responses aren't anything substantial. But I can't blame someone for not always being around to interact in real-time. Especially in this format.

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:57 am 4 wolves is what I'm assuming as well.

I have no read on rabbit admittedly. I have reasons to go in either direction but they aren't strong. I might try to ISO or something tonight.
One thing that bothered me specifically was him saying that he liked how I was staying on Amy and that it felt genuine. I can understand why you'd have reason to TR me and I don't know if that holds as one of them. Stuff like that kinda pings me as potentially non-genuine. Also starting to get paranoid pocket attempts are successfully being made (in general) but that's harder to substantiate.
Anyways, I'm on Amy and not Nutella right now for nebulous (or not) reasons. Nutella is worse by many measurements right now.

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:30 am

Scirrus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:41 am holy fuck is it 1:40

I need to go the fuck to bed

Sorry for the people who hate my posting style. I work late and I'm tired a lot and i'm slow at catching up, it's just the reality for me these days

I feel like voting MR because I disliked his "not serious" excuse while shading me and proto and his push on WH seemed opportunistic too

[VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine

I think people don't like your posting style because there is little coherency in the individual posts, making it difficult to read. Before you take that as an insult let me explain: obviously what you're saying on its own is coherently; but when you quote multiple unrelated posts from yesterday and comment on each one separately it becomes hard to follow. Like, I'm sure it's a useful exercise for yourself, but I personally can't get much out of those posts, which leads to that frustration. Sorry if that's too harsh. You can definitely keep doing your thing I don't think I'll be able to really read you properly until you put those scattered thoughts into one place and one conclusion. I mean, unless your goal is to hide behind those catch-up posts.

Scirrus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:46 am Actually I don't mind the wagons on Amy/Nutella either tbh.

Maybe it would be more productive to build these two up?

[VOTE: AMY] aubergine

Generally, I would find this towny. But when you say you're gonna do it, it kinda takes away.

Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one.

Scirrus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:47 am People that have played with Radishes before, what do you think of him so far?

I have the most experience with MR out of anyone here. I can tell you that you are justified in being suspicious right now.

Boy this is a lot of "hmm suspicious but not that suspicious idk" or "townie but also could be bad idk".

Spoiler: show

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:50 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:20 pm

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:04 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:05 pm

I played in a game that was hosted by a champs participant during their qualifying match. They did fine and directly advanced. I have every confidence that TSP can handle this.

Besides, for wolves even a sweep takes many days and you my dear root vegetable are far from a lock town at this point.

I like the insertion of that subtle assumption into the conversation though, even if I had to reject it. Points for effort.

28

This post seems kinda serious compared to what it's responding to. Hmm.



Mafia philosophical question: is intuition or rationality more important to you when forming reads? Or is that a bad dichotomy.

God, I hope we get to the next phase and I can post tonight.

It may be far less serious than it appears.

Or it may be highly nuanced. Perhaps...

It expresses support for and confidence in the host, possibly attempting to pocket him for reasons unknown.
It fires a warning shot across the bow for Master Radishes implying that his posts will be assessed with more than just a casual level of scrutiny.
It serves to warn other players that subtle assumptions made about innocuous posts can be used to influence their subsequent reads, and that a highly evolved wolf such as Master Radishes would be if he randed wolf may use such tactics.
It also serves as fair warning that if I had randed wolf I also am a wolf of that nature so should be handled carefully.
It produces the wifom that if I HAD randed wolf I would not want townies to start thinking on such subtle levels so I would have just let it pass, so it effectively town tells me.

Or it could have just been the setup line for a joke about common root vegetables and Master Radishes. I leave it to you to determine for yourself whether to treat me as a highly nuanced player looking five layers deep into every post made, or to treat me as a happy go lucky jokester giving a day zero exactly the minimal weight that it probably deserves.

Damn. I enjoyed my time trying to figure this post out :fry:
But I think you will be handled carefully, even if you are joking.

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:34 pm I have decided to go back to just posting things that are funny since apparently no one cared about what I thought.

I care, Tim. I care.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:30 pm tutuu is town for that massive wall of text with incredibly convoluted reasoning about my alignment. Wolves don't put their mind so deep into the weeds for someone whose alignment they already know.

I'm gut reading proto town.

MR and tim have some W/W equity for a very "theater"-like interaction.

Benson seems like he's lonely and trying to reach out to people, which is town. Also Benson, my experience with proto has led me to feel absolutely no discomfort at his "self-conscious meta talk". I get why you feel suspicious about it - I had similar thoughts on iaafr. I'm just saying, from my own meta experience it's not something I'm concerned about.

Impressively accurate soul read on me, tbh.

I know I wasn't very clear, but I'm not actually suspicious of proto. I just thought their entrance was something people would consider "classically wolfy" (like MR did) on the surface, despite that not necessarily being the case. I know some players have reason to act overly self-conscious as town as well. I'm glad your meta on them supports that.

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:11 pm Eh it's a reach because we don't have private threads like on MU, it's usually only on discord, so I don't think she'd confuse it. unless maybe replying to the host pm? More likely she's talking about the signup thread.

Ah gotcha. I didn't see anything in the signup thread that would makes sense as a greeting for the game, however.
I'm really sorry if this is getting angleshooty.



Some random reads before I have to leave:

Alison - Seems comfortable being in the driver's seat right now. I have no meta on her and she self-admittedly "likes to powerwolf", but her comfort level appears villagery. Her reads are good and the progression looks genuine at least.

Nutella - Kind of comes across like she's sheeping reads/ideas and then not following through or doing much about it. I know that's a harsh oversimplification but this is the abstraction I've made from reading her posts. Need more original takes.

Kza - Admittedly, I didn't notice the epicness of his "accuracy" joke earlier, haha. But seriously, I would think that he'd be posting more actual opinions or takes or anything if he's town here. If just seems like he doesn't know what to post or how to insert himself in any of the conversations.

Well this is it. Bye bye for now.

Spoiler: show

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:29 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:18 pm

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:21 pm clarifying that the first post was a meme (and therefore invalid reason to sus) is a bit on the flatly defensive side; that sort of sus couldve been handled in a lot more playful manner (this point might be the weakest).

i mean, in my personal opinion this is a reach. i saw it as clarification for the sake of clarification, ive flatly clarified a bunch of stuff already this game i feel like (and reminder im town) altho maybe they werent flat and i just cant accurately recognize how i come off as but. mm. idk, like, ... nvm actually u do say it yourself that this point might be weakest

i like the person with the whale avatar. was it benson? i like alison's tr on him alot.

looks like im in the minority but i kind of dislike nutella? (in the sense of not townreading her obviously!). i think that shes hard to read, finding her as town in pyre mafia wasnt easy, a lot of ppl were scumreading her but i managed to do it. and in this game i feel like if she's town it's ... even harder to find her? and everyone townreading her is just making me paused. am i in the wrong here to perceive nutella this way, or am i not? that is the question

1/60

Legit lold at the whale avatar thing. Names are forgettable but beluga whales are forever.

Spoiler: show

I don't know if you saw, but I've been lightly sussing nute so far. I've towned with her once before and I feel like I found her pretty quickly because she projected well with how villagery her stream-of-conscious posting came across. The constraints of this game are certainly different but I'm not seeing those towny thoughts. Like she's mainly just agreed or disagreed with things that others are saying. But maybe it was D0 and she didn't care that much?

I think I'll force myself to break for the night so I don't waste too many posts before the round has really started.

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:51 pm Of the less prominent players, I do agree that LC looks towny. I like his entire attitude so far.
But the rest are pretty null. I've honestly forgotten the posts of players like Proto and Colin. Actually Colin did say something that pinged me, where he dismissed the Amy wagon and supported the nutella suspicions (I think). I'd want to know more about that.

Nanook I'm probably going to have trouble reading because of how he plays. I think and hope he'll do more elaborating on his reads today.

Dyslexicon popped in to say something. I said 'hi' and he didn't say hi back so he's basically confirmed mafia.

Kza, like I said, is struggling to get involved in the game. Or he really doesn't care, but I would expect more if he's town here. GIVE ME SOMETHING KAZ.

-------------------

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:44 pm the strength of her insistence on the proto meta read is rubbing me the wrong way, maybe it's too easy to call it tmi but it does kinda remind me of how i sometimes whiteknight townies as scum

OMG, finally a towny take! (Not that I agree)


Tutuu, can you help us understand the meta read and what proto has done to fit that town meta?

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:51 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:20 am I also DO do shit D1, I explicitly believe in catching mafia D1, and, most importantly, I've been doing shit on D1 this game

I only remember some vague reads that were a while ago now. Have those changed? Are there new reads? Help me read you.

------------

Amy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:00 am actually yeah huh nutella never actually makes a post about my slot between saying she buys my defense and dropping me in the PoE. talk to me about myself nut. where am i at for you

also nutella/iaafr never w/w ever, if nutella's a wolf she absolutely TMI'd him v

11/60 remembering to include these is hard but remembering my post total without them is going to be harder

Not going to quote all your posts before here are my fast thoughts before I go to work.

The reaction vote and subsequent analysis is good. It's a genuine play and I think the your conclusions are ostensibly towny. That said, you may be looking too far into what is actually there, but I can't condemn you on that.

Now the reads list: it feels super convenient that your CW ends up as top scum. But I do share suspicions with the quote above, as much as it could easily be a twtbw thing.

Finally the intuition-read: I can't articulate why exactly right - or I'm too lazy too - but almost your entire game feels very crafted and agenda-y, as opposed to something naturally flowing. That's why I'm still on your wagon.

The villager appears to pour itself down, and indeed its villageryness pours in all direction, but the stream does not run out. This pouring is linear extension: that is why its beams are called rays, because they radiate in extended lines

OK I'll stop with the dumb quotes.


Also, the nutella wagon is feeling rather "easy". Like until MR, there was no actual resistance and basically everyone was like "yup nute is scummy". Maybe her teammates are bussers and low-posters but idk.


--------

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:46 am

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:10 am MR:
I'm town by post count...in a game where we're limited to 30 per 24 hours basically?

No. Are you trying to slander my wolf game indirectly? lol

Uh, yeah, you post less as a wolf. Sorry to burst that bubble for you. Here, you’re post-capping yourself, and perhaps more specifically your posts are all game-related, which is more what I meant anyway. You’re engaged. I know you hate when I call you the t-word because you never trust me in return, but too bad. Even your handling of me here fits with your town meta.

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:10 am Your PoE is also too easy for an MR PoE tbh

What is this, CDC?

Ah feck off. You haven't even seen me wolf in a while and the difference is marginal in terms of actual post count. Like it would be something like 90% of my town posting rate and that's not something that would show up in a 60 post-per-phase capped game.

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:55 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:17 am

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:04 am @Benson you seem to be here, yes?

I'm going to go eat lunch. Leave me a summary of why nutella? I got lazy when reading the pages I missed whilst sleeping and didn't pay attention.

You didn't ask me, and I'm sort of in morning catch up over breakfast mode, but since Benluga Whale didn't mention it...

My biggest, and probably only, problem with Nutella is her Amy read. It's maybe too small a problem to justify being on a four vote wagon but at this early stage it is more than I have on anyone else and she has thus far offered no explanation.

If you ISO her and specifically jump out for context when her Amy views shift there never seems to be any good reason...and her view shifts A LOT. It reads to me as (possibly) "is there really a chance to mischop a strong player like Amy day one here?" If Amy is not a wolf I KNOW that a Nutella wolf team would be overjoyed to get rid of her without an NK, but would also be wary about getting caught actively pushing such a wagon...and that's kind of the feeling I get from her.

Yeah, I didn't mention that read flip flop because I think it's pretty NAI for nutella. She tends to do that as town (the shifting views), so if anything it may be a good sign. But the point you bring up still seems reasonable - regarding her happily pushing a miselim on Amy if the support is there from others.

I really just want to know what nutella's follow up is to all that.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:25 am

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:40 am I'm overly focusing on radish because I know him the most, but he still truly doesn't sit well with me. Like I wouldn't expect a full reads list out of him this early before he's really done significant investigative work; and he evidently hasn't done that. The list just looks like work for the sake of work. Sorry, MR, if you're town and I'm disrespecting you right now.
My new spicy take is that if we're just totally on point with nutella, then maybe he's wolfing with her. Or maybe it's a TMI read so he can salvage some town equity is she's miselimed.

Who says I haven't done investigative work?

Of course you have done some. And I promise to look closely at your Scrirrus case tonight.
But, I expect you as town to do the ground-work before you come up with a big reads list. Like that's the type of thing I thought you would leave until last, when you've explored different topics and done some significant analysis. To lead with the readslist today is something that I can't help but be suspicious of. Because that's an easier way for wolves to re-introduce themselves into the thread and look like they've put in work. And it's also how they operate: start with the "reads" they want to push, and then find the justification/evidence post hoc.
Idk, maybe I'm totally off on that.

Some actual leans here, mostly unqualified. Case on Amy and reasons to be sus of KZA and Radishes. This is hunting. But then there's the nutella thing, and... well here:

Spoiler: show

Benson wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:51 pm Of the less prominent players, I do agree that LC looks towny. I like his entire attitude so far.
But the rest are pretty null. I've honestly forgotten the posts of players like Proto and Colin. Actually Colin did say something that pinged me, where he dismissed the Amy wagon and supported the nutella suspicions (I think). I'd want to know more about that.

Nanook I'm probably going to have trouble reading because of how he plays. I think and hope he'll do more elaborating on his reads today.

Dyslexicon popped in to say something. I said 'hi' and he didn't say hi back so he's basically confirmed mafia.

Kza, like I said, is struggling to get involved in the game. Or he really doesn't care, but I would expect more if he's town here. GIVE ME SOMETHING KAZ.

-------------------

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:44 pm the strength of her insistence on the proto meta read is rubbing me the wrong way, maybe it's too easy to call it tmi but it does kinda remind me of how i sometimes whiteknight townies as scum

OMG, finally a towny take! (Not that I agree)


Tutuu, can you help us understand the meta read and what proto has done to fit that town meta?

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:51 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:20 am I also DO do shit D1, I explicitly believe in catching mafia D1, and, most importantly, I've been doing shit on D1 this game

I only remember some vague reads that were a while ago now. Have those changed? Are there new reads? Help me read you.

------------

Amy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:00 am actually yeah huh nutella never actually makes a post about my slot between saying she buys my defense and dropping me in the PoE. talk to me about myself nut. where am i at for you

also nutella/iaafr never w/w ever, if nutella's a wolf she absolutely TMI'd him v

11/60 remembering to include these is hard but remembering my post total without them is going to be harder

Not going to quote all your posts before here are my fast thoughts before I go to work.

The reaction vote and subsequent analysis is good. It's a genuine play and I think the your conclusions are ostensibly towny. That said, you may be looking too far into what is actually there, but I can't condemn you on that.

Now the reads list: it feels super convenient that your CW ends up as top scum. But I do share suspicions with the quote above, as much as it could easily be a twtbw thing.

Finally the intuition-read: I can't articulate why exactly right - or I'm too lazy too - but almost your entire game feels very crafted and agenda-y, as opposed to something naturally flowing. That's why I'm still on your wagon.

The villager appears to pour itself down, and indeed its villageryness pours in all direction, but the stream does not run out. This pouring is linear extension: that is why its beams are called rays, because they radiate in extended lines

OK I'll stop with the dumb quotes.


Also, the nutella wagon is feeling rather "easy". Like until MR, there was no actual resistance and basically everyone was like "yup nute is scummy". Maybe her teammates are bussers and low-posters but idk.


--------

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:46 am

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:10 am MR:
I'm town by post count...in a game where we're limited to 30 per 24 hours basically?

No. Are you trying to slander my wolf game indirectly? lol

Uh, yeah, you post less as a wolf. Sorry to burst that bubble for you. Here, you’re post-capping yourself, and perhaps more specifically your posts are all game-related, which is more what I meant anyway. You’re engaged. I know you hate when I call you the t-word because you never trust me in return, but too bad. Even your handling of me here fits with your town meta.

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:10 am Your PoE is also too easy for an MR PoE tbh

What is this, CDC?

Ah feck off. You haven't even seen me wolf in a while and the difference is marginal in terms of actual post count. Like it would be something like 90% of my town posting rate and that's not something that would show up in a 60 post-per-phase capped game.

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:55 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:17 am

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:04 am @Benson you seem to be here, yes?

I'm going to go eat lunch. Leave me a summary of why nutella? I got lazy when reading the pages I missed whilst sleeping and didn't pay attention.

You didn't ask me, and I'm sort of in morning catch up over breakfast mode, but since Benluga Whale didn't mention it...

My biggest, and probably only, problem with Nutella is her Amy read. It's maybe too small a problem to justify being on a four vote wagon but at this early stage it is more than I have on anyone else and she has thus far offered no explanation.

If you ISO her and specifically jump out for context when her Amy views shift there never seems to be any good reason...and her view shifts A LOT. It reads to me as (possibly) "is there really a chance to mischop a strong player like Amy day one here?" If Amy is not a wolf I KNOW that a Nutella wolf team would be overjoyed to get rid of her without an NK, but would also be wary about getting caught actively pushing such a wagon...and that's kind of the feeling I get from her.

Yeah, I didn't mention that read flip flop because I think it's pretty NAI for nutella. She tends to do that as town (the shifting views), so if anything it may be a good sign. But the point you bring up still seems reasonable - regarding her happily pushing a miselim on Amy if the support is there from others.

I really just want to know what nutella's follow up is to all that.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:25 am

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:40 am I'm overly focusing on radish because I know him the most, but he still truly doesn't sit well with me. Like I wouldn't expect a full reads list out of him this early before he's really done significant investigative work; and he evidently hasn't done that. The list just looks like work for the sake of work. Sorry, MR, if you're town and I'm disrespecting you right now.
My new spicy take is that if we're just totally on point with nutella, then maybe he's wolfing with her. Or maybe it's a TMI read so he can salvage some town equity is she's miselimed.

Who says I haven't done investigative work?

Of course you have done some. And I promise to look closely at your Scrirrus case tonight.
But, I expect you as town to do the ground-work before you come up with a big reads list. Like that's the type of thing I thought you would leave until last, when you've explored different topics and done some significant analysis. To lead with the readslist today is something that I can't help but be suspicious of. Because that's an easier way for wolves to re-introduce themselves into the thread and look like they've put in work. And it's also how they operate: start with the "reads" they want to push, and then find the justification/evidence post hoc.
Idk, maybe I'm totally off on that.

So some light sus on nutella earlier, but really seems to jump back and forth. Looking for reasons to townread nutella? The Amy bit in the last post also doesn't really make sense - Benson just laid out a case for why Amy would be sus, but then now nutella is pushing for her miselim? Hmm.

Scumlean.

i don’t really get this read or what nut has to do with it. what is your read on her and how does that factor into your read on benson? it seems like you’re kinda tmi-ing nut town here by saying benson is pushing a mislim on nut even though you’ve yet to state a tr on nut

also i find it pingy that you’re sitting back doing iso’s on D1 instead of actually interacting itt

think you could be wolfing

That's not what I said re: benson/nut. In fact I'm basically accusing Benson of the same thing you're accusing me of - he had just laid out a case against Amy, and then immediately said he bought into the idea that nut was trying for a miselim of Amy.

Bob, it's fundamental to how I play (and how I think people should play) to be exploring multiple universes at the same time. I had a weak-to-medium wolf read on Amy at the time but that absolutely doesn't preclude me from considering the scenario where Amy is town and nutella (my other wolf lean at the time) is angling to miselim. I wasn't even looking at that as a strong likelihood. It was just a possibility to entertain.

Benson wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:12 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:07 am

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:14 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:22 pm Benson:

Spoiler: show

[deleted spoiler]

So some light sus on nutella earlier, but really seems to jump back and forth. Looking for reasons to townread nutella? The Amy bit in the last post also doesn't really make sense - Benson just laid out a case for why Amy would be sus, but then now nutella is pushing for her miselim? Hmm.

Scumlean.

i don’t really get this read or what nut has to do with it. what is your read on her and how does that factor into your read on benson? it seems like you’re kinda tmi-ing nut town here by saying benson is pushing a mislim on nut even though you’ve yet to state a tr on nut

also i find it pingy that you’re sitting back doing iso’s on D1 instead of actually interacting itt

think you could be wolfing

That's not what I said re: benson/nut. In fact I'm basically accusing Benson of the same thing you're accusing me of - he had just laid out a case against Amy, and then immediately said he bought into the idea that nut was trying for a miselim of Amy.

Bob, it's fundamental to how I play (and how I think people should play) to be exploring multiple universes at the same time. I had a weak-to-medium wolf read on Amy at the time but that absolutely doesn't preclude me from considering the scenario where Amy is town and nutella (my other wolf lean at the time) is angling to miselim. I wasn't even looking at that as a strong likelihood. It was just a possibility to entertain.

Ok, understanding. I agree with exploring multiple worldviews - that wasn't clear to me from your posting, but it sounds like it's more of a shorthand where people are familiar with your playstyle so you don't need to spell it out, whereas I am not and so I can't tell if you're exploring or jumping on suspicions that get thrown out. It's certainly less sus to not really talk about the worldview part d1 since we're still blank slate as far as hard info goes.

Day ends in about 11 hours, correct? In that case I’ll get to read the game before day end. Oh joy.

Reading the last few pages led me to ISO Nanook and all I see is some early "reads" followed by a bunch of nothing until he started getting pressure, at which point there was finally another piece of game-relevant info. So [VOTE: nanook] aubergine

[VOTE: tim] aubergine

Decided Tim a better vote than Amy for me at this stage. Have been skimming and slacking and need to re-read it all again, but will probably wait for a flip first. Am comfortable with being TR enough to wait for the flip before I put work in to re-read.

Why Tim over Amy? In the end, I can't justify voting Amy for making one meme copy pasta I didn't like.

Tim has what I consider to be an entirely manufactured read on LC. Not a strong case either but better than the one I held on Amy.

I didn't really scumread scirrius and I def don't scum read Hally. I don't understand these perspective.

I also don't understand why so many people scumread Nutella. I have one game with Nutella but that was a weird one since Nutella was mid confirmed town the entire game and didn't need to project town or worry about being scum read at any point in the game.

protocultures wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:36 am [VOTE: tim] aubergine

Decided Tim a better vote than Amy for me at this stage. Have been skimming and slacking and need to re-read it all again, but will probably wait for a flip first. Am comfortable with being TR enough to wait for the flip before I put work in to re-read.

Why Tim over Amy? In the end, I can't justify voting Amy for making one meme copy pasta I didn't like.

Tim has what I consider to be an entirely manufactured read on LC. Not a strong case either but better than the one I held on Amy.

I didn't really scumread scirrius and I def don't scum read Hally. I don't understand these perspective.

I also don't understand why so many people scumread Nutella. I have one game with Nutella but that was a weird one since Nutella was mid confirmed town the entire game and didn't need to project town or worry about being scum read at any point in the game.

Good Morning!

Since you think my read on LC is "manufactured" would you do me the favor of pointing out the components? Maybe identify the pieces you disagree actually happened? I'm just checking to see if you even bothered to consider where the read comes from.

I'm also really intrigued with this idea that you are "townread enough that you don't have to put in any more work today." Sounds like a "mission accomplished" statement from a very wolfy mindset. I mean, I'm pretty well townread, and I'm putting in work. I was pretty well townread when I made the read that has you so excited. Why would I have "manufactured" that read if I was a wolf, pray tell? At that point I had an easy slide to EoD, but instead you think I "manufactured" a read that would obviously be controversial. Why as a wolf would I be still putting in that kind of work when I was widely townread.

Here's my thinking...town doesn't have a lolcatting, obvious wolf to chop here. So town people should absolutely NOT be thinking "oh, hey, my work here is done."

colonialbob wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:32 am Reading the last few pages led me to ISO Nanook and all I see is some early "reads" followed by a bunch of nothing until he started getting pressure, at which point there was finally another piece of game-relevant info. So [VOTE: nanook] aubergine

A) you’re not gonna kill me today

B) they’re not “reads” they’re Nanook Certified Locks

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:54 am

protocultures wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:36 am [VOTE: tim] aubergine

Decided Tim a better vote than Amy for me at this stage. Have been skimming and slacking and need to re-read it all again, but will probably wait for a flip first. Am comfortable with being TR enough to wait for the flip before I put work in to re-read.

Why Tim over Amy? In the end, I can't justify voting Amy for making one meme copy pasta I didn't like.

Tim has what I consider to be an entirely manufactured read on LC. Not a strong case either but better than the one I held on Amy.

I didn't really scumread scirrius and I def don't scum read Hally. I don't understand these perspective.

I also don't understand why so many people scumread Nutella. I have one game with Nutella but that was a weird one since Nutella was mid confirmed town the entire game and didn't need to project town or worry about being scum read at any point in the game.

Good Morning!

Since you think my read on LC is "manufactured" would you do me the favor of pointing out the components? Maybe identify the pieces you disagree actually happened? I'm just checking to see if you even bothered to consider where the read comes from.

I'm also really intrigued with this idea that you are "townread enough that you don't have to put in any more work today." Sounds like a "mission accomplished" statement from a very wolfy mindset. I mean, I'm pretty well townread, and I'm putting in work. I was pretty well townread when I made the read that has you so excited. Why would I have "manufactured" that read if I was a wolf, pray tell? At that point I had an easy slide to EoD, but instead you think I "manufactured" a read that would obviously be controversial. Why as a wolf would I be still putting in that kind of work when I was widely townread.

Here's my thinking...town doesn't have a lolcatting, obvious wolf to chop here. So town people should absolutely NOT be thinking "oh, hey, my work here is done."

This is overly defensive. I feel better about my vote already. I'm going to sleep and wake up to a flip and then re-read things.

Didn't think you were widely townread. I may be wrong.

protocultures wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:02 am

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:54 am

protocultures wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:36 am [VOTE: tim] aubergine

Decided Tim a better vote than Amy for me at this stage. Have been skimming and slacking and need to re-read it all again, but will probably wait for a flip first. Am comfortable with being TR enough to wait for the flip before I put work in to re-read.

Why Tim over Amy? In the end, I can't justify voting Amy for making one meme copy pasta I didn't like.

Tim has what I consider to be an entirely manufactured read on LC. Not a strong case either but better than the one I held on Amy.

I didn't really scumread scirrius and I def don't scum read Hally. I don't understand these perspective.

I also don't understand why so many people scumread Nutella. I have one game with Nutella but that was a weird one since Nutella was mid confirmed town the entire game and didn't need to project town or worry about being scum read at any point in the game.

Good Morning!

Since you think my read on LC is "manufactured" would you do me the favor of pointing out the components? Maybe identify the pieces you disagree actually happened? I'm just checking to see if you even bothered to consider where the read comes from.

I'm also really intrigued with this idea that you are "townread enough that you don't have to put in any more work today." Sounds like a "mission accomplished" statement from a very wolfy mindset. I mean, I'm pretty well townread, and I'm putting in work. I was pretty well townread when I made the read that has you so excited. Why would I have "manufactured" that read if I was a wolf, pray tell? At that point I had an easy slide to EoD, but instead you think I "manufactured" a read that would obviously be controversial. Why as a wolf would I be still putting in that kind of work when I was widely townread.

Here's my thinking...town doesn't have a lolcatting, obvious wolf to chop here. So town people should absolutely NOT be thinking "oh, hey, my work here is done."

This is overly defensive. I feel better about my vote already. I'm going to sleep and wake up to a flip and then re-read things.

Didn't think you were widely townread. I may be wrong.

That's odd. It was intended to be offensive. It certainly wasn't intended to dispute about your vote on me. I guess I did ask about it in the first line, but that was just to give you something easy to answer.

The bulk of it was about your "so long as I am not getting chopped day one is a success" mindset. That reads to me as PURE wolf. I think my friend that if you are going to stay safely townread pretending that "Tim is just being defensive" and trying to dismiss me here is not the effective play.

how is "so long as I am not getting chopped day one is a success" pure wolf tim?

i can understand why one might have issues with in in terms of illogical / annoyance, but have you really never seen town act like that?

idk i just like, am i assuming / spreading myself too thin here if i say that i would have preferred if u were to say "lol, proto is town for overestimating how consensus townread he is, and thinking he can get away with it. looks to me like towny mindset"

?

As discussed previously, proto seems to me like the type of player that is commonly misyeeted early and remains fearfully cognizant of this. So it makes perfect sense that they'd be content to make it past D1 being town-read by players. I mean, it's not a great mindset to just sit on that, but I don't think it's necessarily wolfy.

Proto, was that thing about leaving and waking up to flip a joke? Or are you actually leaving your vote on Tim and peacing?

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:17 am how is "so long as I am not getting chopped day one is a success" pure wolf tim?

i can understand why one might have issues with in in terms of illogical / annoyance, but have you really never seen town act like that?

idk i just like, am i assuming / spreading myself too thin here if i say that i would have preferred if u were to say "lol, proto is town for overestimating how consensus townread he is, and thinking he can get away with it. looks to me like towny mindset"

?

The issue isn't whether his estimation on how townread he is is accurate. I mean I listed him as not to be chopped today, so he's probably right that he can just blow the game off and not get chopped today. That's entirely beside the point.

I'm accustomed to playing with people who have a higher commitment than "don't get chopped" when they play as town. They actually never say "oh, long as it isn't me just chop whoever." They are either actively hunting for a good chop or trying to clear people who would be a bad chop. How townread they are or are not is not their issue at all other than in terms of "I need to clear myself enough to prevent what I know is a bad chop." They may look at that as a needed first step, but they don't see it as "mission accomplished."

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:54 am

protocultures wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:36 am [VOTE: tim] aubergine

Decided Tim a better vote than Amy for me at this stage. Have been skimming and slacking and need to re-read it all again, but will probably wait for a flip first. Am comfortable with being TR enough to wait for the flip before I put work in to re-read.

Why Tim over Amy? In the end, I can't justify voting Amy for making one meme copy pasta I didn't like.

Tim has what I consider to be an entirely manufactured read on LC. Not a strong case either but better than the one I held on Amy.

I didn't really scumread scirrius and I def don't scum read Hally. I don't understand these perspective.

I also don't understand why so many people scumread Nutella. I have one game with Nutella but that was a weird one since Nutella was mid confirmed town the entire game and didn't need to project town or worry about being scum read at any point in the game.

Good Morning!

Since you think my read on LC is "manufactured" would you do me the favor of pointing out the components? Maybe identify the pieces you disagree actually happened? I'm just checking to see if you even bothered to consider where the read comes from.

I'm also really intrigued with this idea that you are "townread enough that you don't have to put in any more work today." Sounds like a "mission accomplished" statement from a very wolfy mindset. I mean, I'm pretty well townread, and I'm putting in work. I was pretty well townread when I made the read that has you so excited. Why would I have "manufactured" that read if I was a wolf, pray tell? At that point I had an easy slide to EoD, but instead you think I "manufactured" a read that would obviously be controversial. Why as a wolf would I be still putting in that kind of work when I was widely townread.

Here's my thinking...town doesn't have a lolcatting, obvious wolf to chop here. So town people should absolutely NOT be thinking "oh, hey, my work here is done."

I don't consider Tim's read on me to be entirely manufactured, because he read me better than most players that I've been playing with for years. He didn't just toss out a townread for some reason I don't understand, like a lot of the early townreads I see these days, it was True. Tim and I might be friends.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:59 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:32 am Reading the last few pages led me to ISO Nanook and all I see is some early "reads" followed by a bunch of nothing until he started getting pressure, at which point there was finally another piece of game-relevant info. So [VOTE: nanook] aubergine

A) you’re not gonna kill me today

B) they’re not “reads” they’re Nanook Certified Locks

Braggadocious bravado is supposed to reflect towny confidence, I guess, but it has the opposite effect on me, I find it suspicious and a little desperate. Are you trying to use a Jedi mind trick or something? [VOTE: nanook] aubergine

Oh my god I’m softing a useful (and provable!) role

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:27 am

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:17 am how is "so long as I am not getting chopped day one is a success" pure wolf tim?

i can understand why one might have issues with in in terms of illogical / annoyance, but have you really never seen town act like that?

idk i just like, am i assuming / spreading myself too thin here if i say that i would have preferred if u were to say "lol, proto is town for overestimating how consensus townread he is, and thinking he can get away with it. looks to me like towny mindset"

?

The issue isn't whether his estimation on how townread he is is accurate. I mean I listed him as not to be chopped today, so he's probably right that he can just blow the game off and not get chopped today. That's entirely beside the point.

I'm accustomed to playing with people who have a higher commitment than "don't get chopped" when they play as town. They actually never say "oh, long as it isn't me just chop whoever." They are either actively hunting for a good chop or trying to clear people who would be a bad chop. How townread they are or are not is not their issue at all other than in terms of "I need to clear myself enough to prevent what I know is a bad chop." They may look at that as a needed first step, but they don't see it as "mission accomplished."

okay, then why are u calling him mafia? he cant cross the bar you've set as town, therefore his alignment changes to mafia?

Benson wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:24 am

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:14 am I just woke up @Benson AMA

Do you still maintain your position that I'm such a shitty wolf that I likely couldn't achieve this post count (or whatever post count I had when you said that) as a wolf.
Our friendship is on the line.

We're friends?

I did clarify later I meant not just post count but more so level of engagement within said post count as well. I know it's been awhile since I've seen you wolf but I feel confident in recognising your town game, and yes, a lot of that read is based off reading your energy because I know how much you love to town.

Benson wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:24 am

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:11 am

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:41 am I'm so ready for hally to catch up and join forces with me to bury radishes back into the ground where he belongs

Also, is this a perspective slip? You've told me your bad a D1s as mafia but as town you seem fine at them.

Nah I'm bad at (and hate) D1s generally. I need hard info to work off of and D1s are a black hole of uncertainty. These days I mostly just duck my head and shitpost and try to get through them, but after getting misyeeted in another game here for doing just that I thought I'd try giving a fuck this time and now look where that's got me. I'm going back to shitposting next game.

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:40 am mafia is a team game. this is something i receive evidence of game after game but im not incorporating it enough.

@Benson whatever your read on master radishes it, i will blindly believe it and follow it. i think ur town, and u seem to know him well

@Dyslexicon please read Hally for us. Hally is a Dizzy whisperer, would you say that Dizzy is a Hally whisperer?

Is anyone familiar enough with KZA? like, 5+ games, perferrably seen him as both alignments?

Benson and I both know Kaz, and I echo what he said above. And to add on, this lack of involvement does likely indicate scum Kaz, although it's been a complete absence for quite awhile now which maybe means it's just IRL stuff instead. I don't think he's worth trying to read until he re-appears.

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:42 am

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:27 am

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:17 am how is "so long as I am not getting chopped day one is a success" pure wolf tim?

i can understand why one might have issues with in in terms of illogical / annoyance, but have you really never seen town act like that?

idk i just like, am i assuming / spreading myself too thin here if i say that i would have preferred if u were to say "lol, proto is town for overestimating how consensus townread he is, and thinking he can get away with it. looks to me like towny mindset"

?

The issue isn't whether his estimation on how townread he is is accurate. I mean I listed him as not to be chopped today, so he's probably right that he can just blow the game off and not get chopped today. That's entirely beside the point.

I'm accustomed to playing with people who have a higher commitment than "don't get chopped" when they play as town. They actually never say "oh, long as it isn't me just chop whoever." They are either actively hunting for a good chop or trying to clear people who would be a bad chop. How townread they are or are not is not their issue at all other than in terms of "I need to clear myself enough to prevent what I know is a bad chop." They may look at that as a needed first step, but they don't see it as "mission accomplished."

okay, then why are u calling him mafia? he cant cross the bar you've set as town, therefore his alignment changes to mafia?

I didn't "call him mafia." I pointed out that what he said seems to come from a wolfy mindset and asked him to explain. His explanation was "Tim is overly defensive, I peace out now." I don't think that's adequate really, but you and Rabbit both have him as still an off limits town read (as far as I know) so I am not pursuing killing him over it. It is filed for further analysis though.

Okay I tried but I don't see the soft.

yes u did call him mafia wtf tim lol

radish, i think nanook's soft was "let me live for a couple of days" or something of the sort

i mean he was town regardless, stop bothering him lol

also i think radish is town for making post 778 in the public thread and not in wolf chat

tim, i think u are pushing 2 town. nanook and proto. i might be wrong on my reads in which case i apologize, but i also might be wrong on my reads in the sense that i might have wrongly townread u

Wait this isn't wolf chat?

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:13 pm yes u did call him mafia wtf tim lol

radish, i think nanook's soft was "let me live for a couple of days" or something of the sort

i mean he was town regardless, stop bothering him lol

also i think radish is town for making post 778 in the public thread and not in wolf chat

tim, i think u are pushing 2 town. nanook and proto. i might be wrong on my reads in which case i apologize, but i also might be wrong on my reads in the sense that i might have wrongly townread u

I push on mafia looking posts and events. Most of those are gonna come from town. That's the nature of day one. I'm not trying to kill Proto. I'm not really trying to kill Nanook even though I put a vote on him. This is all just stirring the day one pot and looking at what is floating around.

I am a solver sometimes, but never an instant solver. I actually count more on stronger readers than myself to analyze all this stuff. I just man the oar and keep the pot stirred, mostly.

No need to apologize for making reads. If they are wrong they are wrong, but no one bats a thousand...even if Nanook is claiming that he does.

[mention]Master Radishes[/mention] in some cultures "you aren't killing me today" is "secret code" for "I have a claim to make that will stop you." To me it is about the dumbest 'soft' there is, and I absolutely hate softs of every stripe. The wolves always see the soft, so the only thing accomplished by softing rather than just claiming is that some, most, or all of the town will be confused. The "you aren't killing me" soft is the worst because it does get treated by some players as if it were some sort of wink and nod secret that only "the elite" players who just never rand wolf think they know about.

[mention]Benson[/mention] I acknowledge your point and no I am no more interested in chopping him than I was in chopping Amy, and do not really expect that it will be happening.

[mention]NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME[/mention] I apologize for failing to treat you with the assumed respect that you think you have earned in previous play. I am just a rube from the hinterlands and unaware of the history and traditions of your little pond here. I have however played with Visorslash, Amrock, Pizza, Zack, and a fair number of other players of substantial reputation and have been insufficiently respectful towards all of them as well, so you are in good company.

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:34 am

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:22 am

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:18 am

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:05 am

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:24 pm A'ight, I'm jumping ship here.

Don't like the great wall of Radishes mostly because it is a day one wall case. Also, can't say I have great confidence in Radishes intentions generally. In other words, Radishes you tend your end of this boat and I'll tend mine.

[VOTE: Scirrus] aubergine

I do lean @Alison pretty strong town, and her sense on Scirrus seemed to support my own pretty well.

this post kinda confusing me. you don’t like radishes wallcase on sc and don’t trust him but you’re sheeping him anyway? or...? idgi

I was actually kinda annoyed at being on the name wagon with Radishes because there was a lot I didn't like about his casing and his overall play this game...but...

Alison and I had previously come to a kind of agreement against Scirrus of our own and that was my preferred landing spot when the Nutella wagon blew out from under me (kinda went through the same process you did, it just took longer because it was real time happening. Now I have the classic problem...you are doing great work and seem towny, plus being a potentially very valuable townie that might well crack the game...but Scirrus really butchered that slot IMO.

I've actually been looking for a place to move my vote and just pass your slot for the day, but haven't reached a conclusion yet on where to go.

To be honest I don't think anything Hally has done has redeemed the slot for me and I'm slightly confused why people find her so town. Which of her posts did you like?

Her catch up path from Amy to Nutella to Nanook tracked pretty much exactly with my path in real time. That implies to me that she read all that with a towny mindset because I conveniently know that I read all that with a towny mindset. Since you don't have hard evidence that I have a towny mindset this argument is less convincing to you than it is to me.

I'm also factoring in that Rabbit never hard defended Scirrus, but he did disagree with our read there.

[mention]Benson[/mention], this is the main reason I decided to townclear both Hally and Tim. That kind of large scale mindmeld is usually just t/t. Sure, Tim could be a wolf exaggerating/leaning on comparing Hally's thought process to his own, or Hally could be a wolf whose performed progression in thread just happened to line up with Tim's, or they could be w/w but that seems incredibly unlikely. Occam's razor says they're just both townies who had reasonable reactions to the development of myself and others in the thread. I would of course reevaluate them later down the line if need be, but I have zero interest in doing so today. They're just town.

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:34 am

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:23 am

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:07 am

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:55 am Hally you've called a couple of things "not W/W" and:

1) Like you've pointed out it's a little too early in the game to be doing associatives like that.

2) I don't actually understand why they aren't W/W. Like it isn't obvious to me why the interactions you point out aren't within the scum range of the players involved to fake.

Can you please elaborate a bit more on those thoughts?

linki: Yes, that dynamic you're alluding to between MR, nanook and nutella. What is it about it that makes you think they can't be associated together? I don't get the sense that the scum ranges of any of those three players are particularly narrow, so it has to be something specific and strong that makes you think this.

double linki: Also what is with you being so quick to do associative stuff?

idk sometimes i do associatives it’s not really new for me

so like, i think radish/nanook are possible w/w because nanook kinda sandwiched radishes into his tr’s early even though i don’t think radishes really belongs there. wolves tend to like to lump teammates in with villagers

nanook/nut not aligned because i dont see any reason why nut would push on nanook here as w/w. could she? like yea it’s not out of her wolf range but like... why would she when nanook is not under threat

radishes/nut not aligned because i don’t think w!radishes would defend w!nut like that when she was getting wagoned. it had an air of tmi to it, like he knew nut was a villager and wanted to keep his hands clean of anything having to do with the push/maybe even pocket nut

that’s the associatives i have in that group of three. obviously not set in stone but yea

These associatives require a lot of assumptions and I'm mostly inclined to think you made them up honestly. Like you have a set of assumptions about how mafia would play, like never bus D1, and I'm left with more questions than answers. Why is someone who townreads someone who doesn't deserve it wolves with them, and not wolf whiteknighting/TMI-ing a town, or just town with a weird read? Why can't wolves use D1 to distance knowing full well that their interactions will be referred to later down the road?

It's not even necessarily a question of "Hally is wrong", it's like you're concocting a narrative of the spot and trying to push it on us in lieu of doing actual investigative work, which is why I was kinda skeeved out by your random associative analysis that didn't seem to lead anywhere and felt extremely premature.

nutella: Just when you're trending up on my radar, I'm trending down on yours. :P

i’m not married to any of this analysis since we don’t even have flips yet but i believe the assumptions i’m making are more often true than not. i don’t hard align nanook/radishes but i think it’s possible. i would say i’m much more confident in nut/radishes and nut/nanook not being aligned then radishes/nanook being aligned

like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ idk what to tell you. sometimes i have thoughts based on assumptions that may not be correct or fully formed. it’s the nature of making reads in a game in which i know nothing

i’m honestly not sure why you have a problem with this. i think you’re just calling it fake because you’re either already tunneled on sc being a wolf and don’t wanna give me a chance or a wolf who doesn’t wanna let this mislim slip away because you can see i’m already working my way out of the hole

it’s fine though, we tend to have different approaches and ways of thinking about interactions so it could just be that

I heavily vibed with the bolded take on Alison's treatment of Hally's slot. It should be a good thing that Hally came in and towned it up to pull their slot up out of a tight spot. Alison looks like she doesn't want this to happen.

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:34 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:13 pm yes u did call him mafia wtf tim lol

radish, i think nanook's soft was "let me live for a couple of days" or something of the sort

i mean he was town regardless, stop bothering him lol

also i think radish is town for making post 778 in the public thread and not in wolf chat

tim, i think u are pushing 2 town. nanook and proto. i might be wrong on my reads in which case i apologize, but i also might be wrong on my reads in the sense that i might have wrongly townread u

I push on mafia looking posts and events. Most of those are gonna come from town. That's the nature of day one. I'm not trying to kill Proto. I'm not really trying to kill Nanook even though I put a vote on him. This is all just stirring the day one pot and looking at what is floating around.

I am a solver sometimes, but never an instant solver. I actually count more on stronger readers than myself to analyze all this stuff. I just man the oar and keep the pot stirred, mostly.

No need to apologize for making reads. If they are wrong they are wrong, but no one bats a thousand...even if Nanook is claiming that he does.

@Master Radishes in some cultures "you aren't killing me today" is "secret code" for "I have a claim to make that will stop you." To me it is about the dumbest 'soft' there is, and I absolutely hate softs of every stripe. The wolves always see the soft, so the only thing accomplished by softing rather than just claiming is that some, most, or all of the town will be confused. The "you aren't killing me" soft is the worst because it does get treated by some players as if it were some sort of wink and nod secret that only "the elite" players who just never rand wolf think they know about.

@Benson I acknowledge your point and no I am no more interested in chopping him than I was in chopping Amy, and do not really expect that it will be happening.

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME I apologize for failing to treat you with the assumed respect that you think you have earned in previous play. I am just a rube from the hinterlands and unaware of the history and traditions of your little pond here. I have however played with Visorslash, Amrock, Pizza, Zack, and a fair number of other players of substantial reputation and have been insufficiently respectful towards all of them as well, so you are in good company.

I don’t think that was called for, I don’t remember saying “you should treat me with respect cause I’m a Very Important Player” or whatever. Certainly wasn’t my intent to give that impression anyways. Idk why this, like, condescending while at the same time painting me as condescending tone is called for, tbh?

Anyway, thanks tutuu and Tim. Softs aren’t my thing; unless someone says like ‘I’m gonna shoot you in the face tonight’ I probably won’t notice it.

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:57 pm

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:53 pm I get the sense Nanook is always around but only chooses to post when someone has said something negative about him.

This is wolf lurkiness and vastly different than my read on LC. LC posts when he posts without regard to whether he "needs" to or not, and his posts refer back to context deep in the thread. It isn't this "snap to action OMGUS" on things that are just happening at the moment.

Hally is about one good post away from me switching my vote here.

25/60

I really like the first half of this post. I need to continue reading up to see my perspective on the second half

Hally wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:49 pm

iaafr wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:44 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:43 am Three town (IAAFR tutuu radishes) down, too many more to go

just gonna note randomly that this pinged me as potentially scum with radishes (because i dont think radishes has been nearly as towny as me and tutuu and this kind of early declaration of 3 townreads comes from scum a decent amount) but this is like

an extremely weak read

posting it anyway because why not

ok you are now a town read

26/60
sorry my catchup is slightly backwards because this caught my attention.

I feel that Hally and I have the same read on Iaafr which I feel means that Hally is more likely town

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:28 am single double
nutella
iaafr
hally
tutuu
coliniscool
nanook

at least four vowels
coliniscool
colonialbob
dyslexicon
master radishes
nanook(thegreatandfearsome)
protocultures
timsup2nothin
werewolfhunter

dirty normies
alison
amy
benson
kza
long con


@iaafr do ur magic

27/60

lol. I love the way this is structured. I agree with some of these but not all of them

colonialbob wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:04 am I would call myself a very rusty person. I didn't read the thread live, I read it as a catchup and felt like a lot of it wasn't sinking in. I'm trying not to bounce off this game. So far I am failing

This just feels like an honest perspective to me

top town
iaafr
Hally
Tim
town leans
Colonial
Nutella
evil leans
Tutuu
Nanook
Benson


Boy, I still have a lot lot of null ones despite it getting closer to eod

coliniscool

dyslexicon
master radishes
nanook(thegreatandfearsome)
protocultures
alison
amy
kza
long con

You said my name twice so I only assume it’s because you really love me and admire the way I play

7/7

30/60

[VOTE: Benson] aubergine

I will probably consolodate later today on someone who has more votes.

Also, assuming the poll is the official

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:43 pm You said my name twice so I only assume it’s because you really love me and admire the way I play

7/7

lol. I love this reaction.

Since I was too lazy too go back to initial post I copied over Nutella's list so I wouldn't miss anyone as I often accidentally do

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:34 pm in some cultures "you aren't killing me today" is "secret code" for "I have a claim to make that will stop you." To me it is about the dumbest 'soft' there is, and I absolutely hate softs of every stripe. The wolves always see the soft, so the only thing accomplished by softing rather than just claiming is that some, most, or all of the town will be confused. The "you aren't killing me" soft is the worst because it does get treated by some players as if it were some sort of wink and nod secret that only "the elite" players who just never rand wolf think they know about.

I didn't know about this code. I'm going to switch to Colin for his phony post. [VOTE: Coliniscool] aubergine

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:58 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:34 am

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:23 am

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:07 am

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:55 am Hally you've called a couple of things "not W/W" and:

1) Like you've pointed out it's a little too early in the game to be doing associatives like that.

2) I don't actually understand why they aren't W/W. Like it isn't obvious to me why the interactions you point out aren't within the scum range of the players involved to fake.

Can you please elaborate a bit more on those thoughts?

linki: Yes, that dynamic you're alluding to between MR, nanook and nutella. What is it about it that makes you think they can't be associated together? I don't get the sense that the scum ranges of any of those three players are particularly narrow, so it has to be something specific and strong that makes you think this.

double linki: Also what is with you being so quick to do associative stuff?

idk sometimes i do associatives it’s not really new for me

so like, i think radish/nanook are possible w/w because nanook kinda sandwiched radishes into his tr’s early even though i don’t think radishes really belongs there. wolves tend to like to lump teammates in with villagers

nanook/nut not aligned because i dont see any reason why nut would push on nanook here as w/w. could she? like yea it’s not out of her wolf range but like... why would she when nanook is not under threat

radishes/nut not aligned because i don’t think w!radishes would defend w!nut like that when she was getting wagoned. it had an air of tmi to it, like he knew nut was a villager and wanted to keep his hands clean of anything having to do with the push/maybe even pocket nut

that’s the associatives i have in that group of three. obviously not set in stone but yea

These associatives require a lot of assumptions and I'm mostly inclined to think you made them up honestly. Like you have a set of assumptions about how mafia would play, like never bus D1, and I'm left with more questions than answers. Why is someone who townreads someone who doesn't deserve it wolves with them, and not wolf whiteknighting/TMI-ing a town, or just town with a weird read? Why can't wolves use D1 to distance knowing full well that their interactions will be referred to later down the road?

It's not even necessarily a question of "Hally is wrong", it's like you're concocting a narrative of the spot and trying to push it on us in lieu of doing actual investigative work, which is why I was kinda skeeved out by your random associative analysis that didn't seem to lead anywhere and felt extremely premature.

nutella: Just when you're trending up on my radar, I'm trending down on yours. :P

i’m not married to any of this analysis since we don’t even have flips yet but i believe the assumptions i’m making are more often true than not. i don’t hard align nanook/radishes but i think it’s possible. i would say i’m much more confident in nut/radishes and nut/nanook not being aligned then radishes/nanook being aligned

like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ idk what to tell you. sometimes i have thoughts based on assumptions that may not be correct or fully formed. it’s the nature of making reads in a game in which i know nothing

i’m honestly not sure why you have a problem with this. i think you’re just calling it fake because you’re either already tunneled on sc being a wolf and don’t wanna give me a chance or a wolf who doesn’t wanna let this mislim slip away because you can see i’m already working my way out of the hole

it’s fine though, we tend to have different approaches and ways of thinking about interactions so it could just be that

I heavily vibed with the bolded take on Alison's treatment of Hally's slot. It should be a good thing that Hally came in and towned it up to pull their slot up out of a tight spot. Alison looks like she doesn't want this to happen.

I also had that thought. It might be influenced by the feeling that Hally is just very likely to be able to work herself out of the hole Scirrus had dug. It's not that deep a hole at this time, and Hally is an impassioned player who would have to sit in a shallow hole and feel sorry for herself, and I just don't see that happening. Given, then, that a Hally townread is a very high probability, Alison's continued scumread stood out quite a bit. "But we're supposed to townread Hally now! *points to script*"

Is Alison a wolf pushing hard on someone she shouldn't be, or is she just someone who doesn't accept that script?

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:08 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:34 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:13 pm yes u did call him mafia wtf tim lol

radish, i think nanook's soft was "let me live for a couple of days" or something of the sort

i mean he was town regardless, stop bothering him lol

also i think radish is town for making post 778 in the public thread and not in wolf chat

tim, i think u are pushing 2 town. nanook and proto. i might be wrong on my reads in which case i apologize, but i also might be wrong on my reads in the sense that i might have wrongly townread u

I push on mafia looking posts and events. Most of those are gonna come from town. That's the nature of day one. I'm not trying to kill Proto. I'm not really trying to kill Nanook even though I put a vote on him. This is all just stirring the day one pot and looking at what is floating around.

I am a solver sometimes, but never an instant solver. I actually count more on stronger readers than myself to analyze all this stuff. I just man the oar and keep the pot stirred, mostly.

No need to apologize for making reads. If they are wrong they are wrong, but no one bats a thousand...even if Nanook is claiming that he does.

@Master Radishes in some cultures "you aren't killing me today" is "secret code" for "I have a claim to make that will stop you." To me it is about the dumbest 'soft' there is, and I absolutely hate softs of every stripe. The wolves always see the soft, so the only thing accomplished by softing rather than just claiming is that some, most, or all of the town will be confused. The "you aren't killing me" soft is the worst because it does get treated by some players as if it were some sort of wink and nod secret that only "the elite" players who just never rand wolf think they know about.

@Benson I acknowledge your point and no I am no more interested in chopping him than I was in chopping Amy, and do not really expect that it will be happening.

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME I apologize for failing to treat you with the assumed respect that you think you have earned in previous play. I am just a rube from the hinterlands and unaware of the history and traditions of your little pond here. I have however played with Visorslash, Amrock, Pizza, Zack, and a fair number of other players of substantial reputation and have been insufficiently respectful towards all of them as well, so you are in good company.

I don’t think that was called for, I don’t remember saying “you should treat me with respect cause I’m a Very Important Player” or whatever. Certainly wasn’t my intent to give that impression anyways. Idk why this, like, condescending while at the same time painting me as condescending tone is called for, tbh?

Condescension² turnaround! Masterful!

Also, he's still voting for Hally when the script obviously says that was Day 1 Act 1 only.

WerewolfHunter wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:44 pm 30/60

[VOTE: Benson] aubergine

I will probably consolodate later today on someone who has more votes.

Also, assuming the poll is the official

Okay, so,

Why Benson?

and

Why Benson if you're openly admitting you're not going to stay there?

Also,

WerewolfHunter wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:30 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:28 am single double
nutella
iaafr
hally
tutuu
coliniscool
nanook

at least four vowels
coliniscool
colonialbob
dyslexicon
master radishes
nanook(thegreatandfearsome)
protocultures
timsup2nothin
werewolfhunter

dirty normies
alison
amy
benson
kza
long con


@iaafr do ur magic

27/60

lol. I love the way this is structured. I agree with some of these but not all of them

Which ones do you disagree with?

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:29 am I read through what I missed. Ask me for further commentary if you desire, but I’m going to spend my day doing life admin I’ve been putting off and then playing with my new headphones until my eardrums burst.

My reads generally remain the same. I’m ready to call iaafr town. I think my reservations mainly revolve around post limitations. When I’ve read some of his more recent posts more closely I nod along to them. On the other end, Tim is trending down. The LC townread has a strength that confuses me. And his handling of me feels opportunistic. Like, he began the game just shooting the breeze with me, then as soon as a few others voiced suspicion of me he acted like he’d been uncertain of me all along as well, even voting alongside me but making a deal out of not trusting me either.

I’m keeping my vote on Hally for now. She’s amazing at keeping a pure tone even as a wolf and I see nothing I would consider good enough yet to put her out of that range. The slot was scummy before and it could easily have been a case of RWSTFO. Her scumreads also feel cleverly opportunistic, like three people who have all faced some heat but not too much. I’m probably in confbias territory, but if she’s town I think I’ll get there eventually and I’m not there yet.

im not sure what you’re talking about re: cleverly opportunistic. i disagree with that characterization. i didn’t know what anyone’s reads on you or anyone else were when i began reading and stated my reads as they developed

i thought nut was wolfy at first, later on she became townier. i thought nanook was underwhelming but i wanna let him be and am not interested in yeeting there. i don’t find amy wolfy despite her being my counterwagon. i find colonialbob kinda wolfy even though i think i’m the only one who does so far. i find you wolfy and apparently am not alone in that atm, but i didn’t know that before i read

i’m really not sure how any of this qualifies as “cleverly opportunistic.” it’s not

Benson wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:06 am Read through Hally's posts from last night. I have many thoughts but not enough time to respond to anything specifically. Unfortunately, the bias from Scirrus' game may be completely warping how I view Hally but oh well.

For starters, I think we agree (or they agree with me) on many things so far. I suppose I see some of the same progressions but it's not like that can't be faked when one is doing a retroactive read like that. If anything, I get paranoid that Hally is towncoring me (and others) and latching on to the things I say because I'm wrong - like my SR on MR for example.

i do think your read is warped by sc. normally one might take my agreement with you as a sign that we share a town perspective but instead you wave it away as me trying to pocket you because you’re wrong. i mean like... i can’t disprove that accusation? other than to say that i’m pretty sure i was sus of radishes before i read that you were. also i’m towncoring you because i find you to be obvious town so far. you can assume it’s an agenda if you want—again, this isn’t something i can disprove—but fmpov that isn’t a justified assumption. it tells me you’ve already written my slot off and are now fitting everything i do into “hally is a wolf because sc was a wolf” instead of evaluating me on my own merits and with a fresh perspective

i understand this though, it is what it is. it’s just the nature of replacing in to a consensus scum read slot

Another thing is that it seems like Hally came into this with pre-established reads and an agenda to push. I was hoping there would be more freshness to the reads, since they came in with a blank slate and reading after-the-fact can be very different from following the game in real-time. At least the progression on nute developed well and similar to how I felt. The Nanook read is fine, but that's an easy push for the wolves if he's town right now.
Amy got a quick town read and wasn't talked about much, which makes me think that's a potential w/w.

i mean, again i can’t prove to you that i don’t have an agenda or “pre established reads” but i don’t think thats a justified assumption to make. you can clearly see my reads progressing as i read so im not sure how you can conclude they’re pre-established

re: nanook i’m not interested in pushing him anymore this day. this happens like every game we play where we’re both town. i always find him wolfy at first and then we find each other later. i think his reaction to me is fine and what i would expect of him if we’re both town again. so i’m satisfied for now and that’s all

re: amy i didn’t really understand the case on her tbh. i don’t have the context of her meta but i didn’t think she was wolfy when rabbit cases her. she was still null to me. and then i found her meaty posts after that pretty towny. so now she’s been moved up to a town lean. there isn’t really much else to talk about until i see more from her

In short, I don't think Hally's play is damning or anything, but it's not enough to raise the slot from the hole that Scirrus put it into. At least not yet. I do like the dynamic between Hally and Radishes. That's probably not w/w but I think those are good wagons to talk about today. Imo, there's a good shot of getting a wolf between them.

this is largely irrelevant and probably unproductive but really, what could i do, theoretically speaking, to get out of the “hole sc put me in”? i subbed in, immediately started solving and engaging with the game, have reads and progressions that you yourself share, have like 50 posts already, etc. i think i’m plenty towny but this is of course my own biased view. still, i would appreciate being evaluated on my own merits if at all possible

Benson wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:18 am Last post before I really have to go.

What is this and why is no one talking about it???

Nutella on Sciruss/Hally is fucking WEIRD

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:43 pm

Benson wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:58 pm Actually, I realize nutella has (and just did) follow up her Amy reads, so you can disregard that point in my previous post. I guess if anything, nute, I want to know what was your *initial* read on Amy when you voted? What specifically about her subsequent posts made you think town?

I never voted lol why do people keep saying that my vote for dizzy just now was my first vote!

but yes when I initially agreed with rabbit's case on amy, I thought that it made sense amy looked most generally wolfy out of the people who had participated much at that point. as she's posted more and especially with her longer posts about the tim stuff and about iaafr I think she's much more in her town meta. and I particularly mindmelded with her iaafr read.



other stuff from the remainder of page 10
-wwh seems pretty towny now, sort of a vague tone thing but the way she's trying to put in some independent work and the way she expressed her take on each tutuu quote, generally feels like her perspective is genuine.
-radish's case on scirrus made me feel worse about radish and better about scirrus.

This was one of the few things Nutella mentioned about Scirrus while he was a focal point yesterday. Basically dismissing the case to SR Radishes. I don't get that. I think the case was objectively fine unless you have some TMI or anterior reasons for thinking otherwise.


After this, and aside from a small post or two, it was radio silence on the Scirrus front until Hally got here.

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:42 am [VOTE: master radishes] aubergine


would feel bad misyeeting him d1 yet again but.... he feels so different and calculated here


and dizzy is not even remotely off the hook

Nutella is now firmly in the Hally camp in the campaign to chop radishes. This isn't strange but I'm just making a note of it.

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:41 am alright heres basically where im at now

lock town
hally
tim
tutuu

town with reservations, roughly ordered
benson
amy
lc
proto
dizzy (trusting hally lol)
wwh
nanook
iaafr

shh don't tell her but trending down
alison

meh/lean scum
colin
cbob
kza
radish

Hally is lock town.

What

WHAT

Some of the placements on the list are just bewildering. I want to call it villagery to not just be sheeping the consensus, but if we really were on the right track with some of our scum reads then maybe she's forced into the position to try to push a completely different consensus than most of the other players have established. Idk, but this is super interesting.

What I'm saying is I really want to think this is a w/w duo. That might be far too easy though. But this is what I want people to look at closely today: MR vs Hally & Nute. We have something spicy there.

shrug

if nut is a wolf it’s possible she’s trying to pocket me because she knows i’m easily susceptible to that. but we’ve towned together a few times already and tend to share similar perspectives when we do so it’s not out of the realm of possibility to me that she’s found me as town as quickly as she has. i’m not that difficult to read

also i’m pretty sure if we were teamed nut wouldn’t lock me as town so quickly with my slot in the position it’s in and her not being that townread but ymmv

colonialbob wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:32 am Reading the last few pages led me to ISO Nanook and all I see is some early "reads" followed by a bunch of nothing until he started getting pressure, at which point there was finally another piece of game-relevant info. So [VOTE: nanook] aubergine

this seems like a pretty opportunistic vote and push. i’m really not finding you towny so far

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:58 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:34 am

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:23 am

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:07 am

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:55 am Hally you've called a couple of things "not W/W" and:

1) Like you've pointed out it's a little too early in the game to be doing associatives like that.

2) I don't actually understand why they aren't W/W. Like it isn't obvious to me why the interactions you point out aren't within the scum range of the players involved to fake.

Can you please elaborate a bit more on those thoughts?

linki: Yes, that dynamic you're alluding to between MR, nanook and nutella. What is it about it that makes you think they can't be associated together? I don't get the sense that the scum ranges of any of those three players are particularly narrow, so it has to be something specific and strong that makes you think this.

double linki: Also what is with you being so quick to do associative stuff?

idk sometimes i do associatives it’s not really new for me

so like, i think radish/nanook are possible w/w because nanook kinda sandwiched radishes into his tr’s early even though i don’t think radishes really belongs there. wolves tend to like to lump teammates in with villagers

nanook/nut not aligned because i dont see any reason why nut would push on nanook here as w/w. could she? like yea it’s not out of her wolf range but like... why would she when nanook is not under threat

radishes/nut not aligned because i don’t think w!radishes would defend w!nut like that when she was getting wagoned. it had an air of tmi to it, like he knew nut was a villager and wanted to keep his hands clean of anything having to do with the push/maybe even pocket nut

that’s the associatives i have in that group of three. obviously not set in stone but yea

These associatives require a lot of assumptions and I'm mostly inclined to think you made them up honestly. Like you have a set of assumptions about how mafia would play, like never bus D1, and I'm left with more questions than answers. Why is someone who townreads someone who doesn't deserve it wolves with them, and not wolf whiteknighting/TMI-ing a town, or just town with a weird read? Why can't wolves use D1 to distance knowing full well that their interactions will be referred to later down the road?

It's not even necessarily a question of "Hally is wrong", it's like you're concocting a narrative of the spot and trying to push it on us in lieu of doing actual investigative work, which is why I was kinda skeeved out by your random associative analysis that didn't seem to lead anywhere and felt extremely premature.

nutella: Just when you're trending up on my radar, I'm trending down on yours. :P

i’m not married to any of this analysis since we don’t even have flips yet but i believe the assumptions i’m making are more often true than not. i don’t hard align nanook/radishes but i think it’s possible. i would say i’m much more confident in nut/radishes and nut/nanook not being aligned then radishes/nanook being aligned

like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ idk what to tell you. sometimes i have thoughts based on assumptions that may not be correct or fully formed. it’s the nature of making reads in a game in which i know nothing

i’m honestly not sure why you have a problem with this. i think you’re just calling it fake because you’re either already tunneled on sc being a wolf and don’t wanna give me a chance or a wolf who doesn’t wanna let this mislim slip away because you can see i’m already working my way out of the hole

it’s fine though, we tend to have different approaches and ways of thinking about interactions so it could just be that

I heavily vibed with the bolded take on Alison's treatment of Hally's slot. It should be a good thing that Hally came in and towned it up to pull their slot up out of a tight spot. Alison looks like she doesn't want this to happen.

eh. it’s hard because confirmation bias is a real thing. i honestly don’t know how to separate townies who are confbiasing my play into being wolfy because omg sc was evil and wolves who are pretending to confbias because they’d really like to be able to get me mislimed here. subbing into a widely scum read slot means that i’m necessarily gonna have to contend with the baggage sc accumulated and it’s going to affect how people read me even if they’re approaching me in good faith. benson, for example, i think is town who is just confbiasing. radishes could be a wolf trying to hold on to the push because i don’t feel he actually gave my play a fair shake at all. with benson i can see the gears turning as he tries to evaluate me even though he comes to a conclusion that’s incorrect. i don’t feel radishes has actually evaluated me in the same way so far. alison i’m torn on because we have such different ways of thinking that i can buy she genuinely doesnt like my play, but i also think she would exploit that as a wolf

idk it’s hard to evaluate tbh

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:56 pm

WerewolfHunter wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:44 pm 30/60

[VOTE: Benson] aubergine

I will probably consolodate later today on someone who has more votes.

Also, assuming the poll is the official

Okay, so,

Why Benson?

and

Why Benson if you're openly admitting you're not going to stay there?

31/60

In my reads list he was one of my evil leans so I like to state them.

However, at the end I like my vote to have influential value which does not happen when your on one of the players with only a single vote.

I also like feeling how each votes feels. Not sure if feeling is the best word but it's a term I use

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:57 pm Also,

WerewolfHunter wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:30 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:28 am single double
nutella
iaafr
hally
tutuu
coliniscool
nanook

at least four vowels
coliniscool
colonialbob
dyslexicon
master radishes
nanook(thegreatandfearsome)
protocultures
timsup2nothin
werewolfhunter

dirty normies
alison
amy
benson
kza
long con


@iaafr do ur magic

27/60

lol. I love the way this is structured. I agree with some of these but not all of them

Which ones do you disagree with?

32/60

I recently posted a reads list. I believe it's on this or the last post