Battlestar Galactica Mafia - GAME OVER

[a2thezebra]

Unless you were asking everyone else that, which wouldn't surprise me.

[Polo]

So Say We All!

@Polo: Thanks for your vote on me my friend - you seem suspiciously eager to get a wagon started on me and a little over an hour later, G-Man comes in and promises a case on me...

I know you've already cast your vote but I'd really, REALLY like you to answer my question. This is (I believe) the fourth time I've asked so I'm beginning to wonder now if you're deliberately avoiding answering it for some reason. You've obviously thought this whole thing Cylon claiming thing through, so it shouldn't be THAT hard to answer, should it

Glorfindel, do you have a legitimate reason not to claim Cylon? Are you John Cavil?
I am here JJJ, please make good use of my time.

Largely a matter of principle and no, you have my word that I am not John Cavil. I want to re-read the cases for and against in relation to the claiming thing. I do however suspect something entirely sinister is going on here (feel free to call me paranoid. I have a question for you though - would Youi or anyone like to speculate on why we had the Cylon Amnesty Act in the first place? What could our President been trying to achieve by passing that law? I'd be most interested in any conjecture anyone would care to volunteer on this matter.

I notice that I've had no response to this question that I asked - so I will ask again...

Sorry, got caught up in the GTH I guess.

I believe that Admiral Cain could be of an independent party with win conditions that differ from those of the civ team, and so she's not exactly town.
Golden probably thought of adding her as a way to raise difficulty and sow confusion into the game and make us all question "why the hell did we sign up for this (?)".


Oh, and by the way, why did you abstain from answering the GTH?

I mean, you posted this question amidst the gun-to-head moment. I guess it is my turn to suspect that something entirely sinister is going on here.

Maybe independent - I can see your point there. As for your assertion that Golden wanted to "raise the level of difficulty and sow confusion" I'd put it to you that was completely unnecessary on his part (at least from my perspective). In retrospect, what you're saying makes some sense although you haven't answered my question. I asked (quite clearly I thought) about the original law passed by the President giving amnesty to our Cylon friends and what circumstances may have led to that

I wonder whether LoRab was Mafia at all. In fact, I have grave doubts whether the majority of the Cylons are Mafia which makes me all the more suspicious of attempts by some to take away the benefit provided under the Amnesty Act to the Cylons. The general consensus as I read things here is that the Admiral's intents are not favourably to us and yet, we have certain people only too happy to have all our Cylon friends lynched DESPITE the fact the original law appears to have been passed with the purpose of having them remain in the game. I don't think it's a big stretch to assume that if there are any Cylons on the Mafia team (e.g. John Cavil) they would've been among the first people to rally support for the declaration thing.

As for my non participation in the GTH thing, I am Australian. I work full time. At the time I was posting, I'd only just finished lunch (feel free to check the time zone if you like - I'm on AEST) and was trying to post in between doing stuff at work. Not that you'll accept the truth anyway as you've made your opinion of me quite clear. As for my voting record, I'm not proud of it but I stand by it. I've already discussed my choices and believe that they were consistent with my previously expressed comments throughout the game and I don't appreciate other players trying to fabricate my record into something that it isn't. Thank you.

Well, I am not the President, I am not Golden and I have no certainty over why the law was enacted, but it could have been a way of making it clear that there should be town Cylons in this game.

We still need to kill Cavil, though. Help us do so by claiming Cylon, will ya?

[Epignosis]

Enough with this claiming bullshit. I'm going to start voting people who keep it up. Get to talking suspects or get to taking my vote.

[a2thezebra]

What are your current top suspects?

[Silverwolf]

Wow, I butchered the hell out of that quote.

Oh well, I think it's clear what I mean.

What's clear (to anyone who wants to really look) is that you completely avoided engaging with any of my points or questions, and moved right to your tired old schtick of "he's misrepresenting! he's discrediting!" But don't worry, I doubt anyone will bother looking.

as much as it pains me to say this, you might be on to sonmething here.

bea-In going through your ISO, I saw this post. You also made a lot of posts agreeing with Long Con or supporting him in some ways-telling him you were listening, etc.

So my question is, do you have a civ reading on Long Con and if so, elaborate on it please?

A lot of your comments are kind of offhand comments that make it hard for me to get a read of you. So if you elaborate on one of your reads, this will help me a lot and I imagine others as well.

[Silverwolf]

OK, Well looking at Bea and Black Rock's ISO's and they don't look that bad to me overall. They are both busy and that is apparent at some points but there are some good points in Bea's about people she's suspicious of and some scumhunting points in Black Rock's that look good so for right now, I'm gonna eliminate them as potential suspects for this day phase.

[DrWilgy]

*chomps on Silverwolf's leg*

I willsh shry shoo ansher all keshionsh ashk'd ohf me shoon.

[Silverwolf]

Dr. Wilgy-OK, looking forward to it.

Vompatti's ISO doesn't look as bad as I thought it would, he does put his opinions in there, nothing stands out as suspicious

Polo-You had metalmarsh as bad in your GTH reads-can you elaborate on that?

[Polo]

Dr. Wilgy-OK, looking forward to it.

Vompatti's ISO doesn't look as bad as I thought it would, he does put his opinions in there, nothing stands out as suspicious

Polo-You had metalmarsh as bad in your GTH reads-can you elaborate on that?

I must have had a brainfart, then, because I have him marked as town in my spreadsheet since the Marmot Witness Protection Act.

[ObscureAllure]

Five bucks says Matt and Wigly have BTSC.

[DrWilgy]

Five bucks says Matt and Wigly have BTSC.

Got paypal?

[Polo]

Five bucks says Matt and Wigly have BTSC.

Got paypal?

got cylon claim?

[Polo]

*chomps on Silverwolf's leg*

I willsh shry shoo ansher all keshionsh ashk'd ohf me shoon.

I want to know your reads.

[bea]

So say we all!

Ok - so I'm in from work - I tried this morning to play catch up to where I was when I took yesterday off (which was habitually just getting to the point of wanting to get on the computer on my day off and work pissing me off *again* multiplied by like every 2-3 hours ALL FRACKING DAY LONG. ) - but couldn't really comment. I'd like to address from memory what I did see and remember from like 12 hours ago. I've tried EXTRA hard on a VERY trying day to keep everything in mind. If I've missed something please let me know.

RIP Scotty. I was leaning civ on you.

Silver and Daisy and Rico have me painted as pretty bad in ways it STICKS with a person and that concerns me as I'm not.

I believe part Daisy's issue was that she thought I fake claimed. I did not. I claimed to be a civ role and *not* one of like 4 civ roles. I think I left all kinds of wiggle room in my claim. Apparently Goldama did too because I have not been punished for what I said. As for OA and her punishment, I can't speak on it because I don't know what she was punished for and I don't see a reason at this moment go back and try to figure it out when I'm three pages down in the thread.

Silver - you asked what I thought given my Yay! I'm caught up post. Was there something you were hoping I would address that I didn't in the several posts I made before that one? If so please highlight it for me. I have very limited free time. Sometimes keeping up is all I can do and I want to go back later and comment but I forget.

Rico - I get that your issue with me is the whole "null read" thing during the post Neuro lynch. I admit - I probably didn't explain myself as well as I should have. At the time I voted Neuro I was at work and skimming the thread. As I understood what was going down, we were trying to split the vote between lorab and someone the thread suspected so that we could confirm that lorab was cylon. There were lots of votes on lorab neuro was the leading CW. I went with the flow of the town. I didn't have a particular read on him one way or the other and I was busy at work. I tried to make the most informed decision I could at the time and that's never easy when I'm busy at work. I feel VERY bad about lynching Saul. I own my vote and I own my statements after it. It is what it is and I'm sorry for it. I am still a civ who made a poor vote under the crunch.

I see BR suspects SVS - which is interesting to me as I've been pretty much town reading SVS - I agree with her mindset lots on the things she has stated and also she's done everything I think civ SVS does. Including *that one thing I don't talk to her about.* Right now, epi has said already what I think. I don't think you are shooting yourself in the foot by saying that you think SVS is bad BR - but I need something more to go on when I'm gut reading her so civ.

That said, the one thing I could point to from SVS pre-me getting home from work has been addressed in the one page I read before making this post and that's SVS's lazor focus on long con. My jury is still out on him SVS - I'm interested in who else you suspect and why. I know you are like a dog with a bone when you think you are right, widen the scope a bit and see what else you see.

KK - back to trying to catch up. See ya'll shortly!

[G-Man]

A review of my first critique of Glorfindel is probably the best place to start :

Spoiler: show

A preface is in order to understand where I'm coming from.

I don't usually look for teammate behavior until I have vote data pointing me in that direction. I also don't track people's meta because I've never been the best at it. When looking at Nutella, I saw individual behavior that looked bad to me. My theory on Glorfindel is built around similar observations.

Check out his post history.

His first four posts include the following:
-Whoops I missed the start of the game
-Whoops I didn't read the rules
-A slight civ vibe based on skim reading
-A funny post of no substance
-Whoops I missed the vote

Then two mechanics related posts, and an "I'm catching up (43 pages in) but totally lost" post, lowering our expectations for Day 2.

On Day 2, we get:
-a post where he says he feels good about Matt and Zebra
-a mechanics related post on Toaster allegiance
-another mechanics post
-an oy, complicated show lore + complicated game mechanics = headache post
-another mechanics post
-a big long post where he hands out some civ reads but comes up empty on suspicions

Then there is the post where he says he finds it hard to take IAWY seriously without explaining what that means. Does he think IAWY is bad or just acting differently?

Then a "don't call me a slacker" kind of post responding to my LRD vibe pickup. He says he's trying but it's hard but he's not very good at the whole forming baddie reads.

Then he takes two posts to help DrWilgy sort out what thoughts were about IAWY to help him better understand the situation he's walking into. Helpful for Wilgy but not the big picture.

He says he thinks LC might be trying to get lynched (agreeing with SVS) but that LC's sortie hijack makes him as unhelpful civvie at best and mafia at worst.

He votes Long Con Day 2 for "reasons already stated" but his prior post didn't even label LC as suspicious. He just viewed him as a liability to the civvies. The way he worded it is shady because, rather than restate his reasons, he puts it on the reader to go back and find his reasons on their own. Because, you know, it's easy to remember the mild suspicions of a quietish player in a game with 2,500 posts.

When Silverwolf presses him for justification of his vote during Night 2, he finds a handful of detailed points that made it a reasonable choice for him. Where was all this info when he cast his vote? Nowhere. When he voted, he said "reasons already stated," which alluded to a post that only covered maybe two out of the five points he unloaded at night.

Then you've got a bunch of empty banter and trying to pitch in with the sorties overnight and into Day 3.

Later there is a post where he agrees with JJJ, calls a few people civ, and throwing shade at Sokoth without committing to calling him sus. Then a post defending sig, a post clarifying his stance on mechanics, and a post where he thinks something JJJ proves his point about either sig or mechanics (I'm not sure which).

He apologizes to LC for his vote and lists a few players he thinks LC is wrong about. Finally he chastises Sokoth for finally forming some opinions because Sokoth takes aim at Glorfindel for what looks like a hasty "NO U" reaction.

Early on, he sounds like someone trying to figure out game mechanics but he focuses solely on Toaster mechanics. There's the complete lack of calling anyone suspicious three days into the game. Fluff banter to look helpful and pad that post count too.

Any one of these on their own would seem harmless but all three of them combined sets off alarms in my brain. Asking questions and discussing no -suspicion related issues without the willingness to put some skin in the game just feels wrong.

Does any of this sound reasonable or am I working up another Keyser Soze?

I'm going to pick up with Glorfindel's reaction to my case.
Follow his post history if you like. I'll be starting out at this post:

Finally he chastises Sokoth for finally forming some opinions because Sokoth takes aim at Glorfindel for what looks like a hasty "NO U" reaction.

Is that REALLY how you see that exchange my friend? I was chastising 'Sokoth' for precisely the opposite - I don't consider random, unsubstantiated accusations 'opinions'. I seriously doubt that anyone else here would. I AM genuinely trying to figure out this game and although I may be 'tinfoiling' for the first time I seriously think there is more to this game than the simplistic black and white view some people have adopted. Personally, I think what you've painted there is a pretty flimsy case almost rivaling the 'Two Face' accusation leveled at me in my last game here. Nonetheless, if that's the best you can do in finding a Mafia Team member, good for you.

One thing that has concerned me for some time time now is my initial exchange with IAWY. As I stated in the Sign-up thread, he was the reason I even signed up for this game. In the last game we played together, I defended him from the 'get go'. Given our history together, I find it extraordinary that he would make an accusation against me Day 1 like he did. After Dr Wilgy replaced him, gave him the benefit of the doubt and have heard practically nothing since. Then there was the exchange between IAWY and Magnus (Nerolunar). In retrospect, the whole 'No, you!' exchange doesn't really look as convincing as it did at the time. Distancing, perhaps...

A handful of people thought my post had some merit and, at the very least, required a response from Glorfindel on several of my observations, leading to this response from Glorfindel:

Also I'm seriously considering voting for Glorfindel he only answered one portion of Gman's case and he seemed super defensive which I seem to remember is a baddie tell of his. However, I need to think on it since I have been wrong about him before.

Another thing which bothered me is him civ reading me. Civ Glorfindel always thinks I'm mafia or at the very least he is paranoid agaisnt me, he seemed to civ read me way to quickly this game. It could be an attempt to buddy me or just to get credit if I flipped.

Sig, G-Man's post was quit extensive but without a lot of content that I feel I can adequately address in the short time I have at my disposal (I am actually at work...) I am not super defensive at all. Someone actually goes to the trouble of putting a case together against me (even though he's wrong, I appreciate his effort - seems it's beyond some players here...) and I'm asked to refute those claims. I do, and you accuse me of being super-defensive? REALLY?

Yes, I believe you're Town, There, said it. I don't see you're problem with that opinion. I'd never 'buddy you' and if you honestly believe that... After all this time, if I don't know Town Sig by now... I don't see your problem - unless I'm wrong about you?

That line in pink led me to believe that he would come back later and address my case. Did he?

Not here.
Nor here.
Or here,
here,
or even here.
Here is a casual dismissal of my points altogether.

By all means, please check his post history to fact check me but he never comes back to defend himself against my observations. He said initially that he didn't have time to respond to me because he was at work, which I'm fine with but to ignore me later when he might have time raises another red flag for me.

From that last post I linked to, Glorfindel did have time to discuss (on a post-by-post basis)...

-Defending his voting record
-How lost he is (while mentioning my name among his likely civ reads, as if that gets him back in my good graces
-win cons and his votes
-a blend of lore and mechanics
-Hey wow! He discusses people and even casts shade on Wilgy. Barely.

Then a bunch of fluffy fluff that fluffs to pad ye ole post count. Then what amuses me is this post:

Glorfindel, do you have a legitimate reason not to claim Cylon? Are you John Cavil?

I am here JJJ, please make good use of my time.

Largely a matter of principle and no, you have my word that I am not John Cavil. I want to re-read the cases for and against in relation to the claiming thing. I do however suspect something entirely sinister is going on here (feel free to call me paranoid. I have a question for you though - would Youi or anyone like to speculate on why we had the Cylon Amnesty Act in the first place? What could our President been trying to achieve by passing that law? I'd be most interested in any conjecture anyone would care to volunteer on this matter.

I notice that I've had no response to this question that I asked - so I will ask again...

So when I write up a huge post detailing several instances of shady behavior, you can blow it off like it ain't no thang, but when no one answers your role/mechanics question you feel the need to point out the lack of a response? Dang yo, that is cold.

I'm sorry dude, but your posts don't read like someone who is struggling to tread water. You read more like someone doing the dog paddle, letting everyone around you make waves that let you coast by largely as an afterthought. I'd like to see you doing the dead man's float soon.

[G-Man]

A fresh round of player reads will have to wait for tomorrow. It's bedtime for me.

[bea]

So Say We All!

Vote sig

Wasted vote. He claimed earlier and even though golden didn't count it, as soon as dig gets back he's going to claim again and be immune.

I'm not sure how a sig vote is wasted? If we think he's cylon - and he does indeed reclaim as golden didn't count it - isn't this scenario EXACTLY what everyone was high pressuring people to claim for was? For proof - use it and be not lynched and we know you are a cylon? Isn't that what the town wanted and demanded that everyone do?

[bea]

Long Con, JaggedJimmyJay, and to an extent Ricochet, are all confirmed town along with at least a dozen other players.

Stop saying confirmed town. Confirmed town either means the thread saw their role OR you're info dumping. But you're not punished so that means you have no actual info to confirm them, so still stop saying it.

Or accept that when she says that she is saying she's sure they are town or she's trying to mess with you and your responses feed into it.

[bea]

I'm going with my one of my gut reads. And as gullible as I may be, it's someone who hasn't claimed Cylon yet. Surprising?

Vote Glorfindel

Did not vote nutella on day 2;
Has yet to claim Cylon.

In an ideal scenario i'd be voting Zebra.

I'm gone for the rest of the day.

So if you are voting this early, why didn't you vote your ideal scenario?

[Polo]

I'm going with my one of my gut reads. And as gullible as I may be, it's someone who hasn't claimed Cylon yet. Surprising?

Vote Glorfindel

Did not vote nutella on day 2;
Has yet to claim Cylon.

In an ideal scenario i'd be voting Zebra.

I'm gone for the rest of the day.

So if you are voting this early, why didn't you vote your ideal scenario?

Look at the poll. a2thezebra is not an option.

[a2thezebra]

I agree with everything bea has said in her most recent posts.

[Dex]

I said I would give him time,which to me means until the end of the day. If nothing Cain related happens,I can then more to the next day and wait.

In terms if the show, btw, there isn't any Cain-related event to wait for. She shows up, takes over, declares martial law, ignores Roslin or any pretense of civil authority, shoots her XO in the head for insubordination, summarily arrests and courtmartials some of Galactica's crew, regularly tortures a 6 for kicks, and gets killed. I conclude that as long as Cain's in charge there's going to be martial law, and it won't go away until Cain does, and LCs pleas for time are just that, an attempt to buy time.

[bea]

Zebra's probably posted more content than I have.

I would agree to that.

Post more content newt.

[bea]

So I get all this shit for not claiming, then when I do it is a scummy opportunistic move...............

Again someone look through Zebra's posts she has posted almost no content, Polo keeps asking people who they'd like to lynch and why not so and so that is a basic scum move. I use that all the time as mafia.

sig, I'm going to need you to acknowledge the reasons for that suspicion in a way that is not generalized and misrepresentative. Multiple people have been quite clear about why you're still suspicious, and what you just described is not an accurate depiction.

That is one of the reasons started by Scotty/Polo what are the others since I can't recall any real reasons besides the one i states and my push on Epi and other cylons. People just keep repeating I'm bad. And now you're saying I'm fusing myself to Glorf, which isn't true since it looks like it's coming down to him and me atm.

Polo I can't answer that either way it would be infodumping.

linki: Wait what polo? I'm rustled from your general behavior plus when did you say you wanted to vote for her? You've been pushing me and Glorfindel. It has nothing to do with Zebra who you're now saying you want lynched yet voted for someone else super early?

I'm going with my one of my gut reads. And as gullible as I may be, it's someone who hasn't claimed Cylon yet. Surprising?

Vote Glorfindel

Did not vote nutella on day 2;
Has yet to claim Cylon.

In an ideal scenario i'd be voting Zebra.

I'm gone for the rest of the day.

Over there.

I'll be pushing for anyone who hasn't claimed yet unless they make a very good case on someone else. If the Cylon Amnesty Act is not overturned by the President, the people can make it ineffective. But I do think that there may be a couple of people who can not ever say "I am a Cylon" for role reasons.

Why do you think this? And which roles do you think this applies to?

[bea]

Metalmarsh89's probably made more posts than I have.

I'd agree with this too. Post more JJJ.

[Dex]

I'm not sure how a sig vote is wasted?

If we vote to lynch him today and he's a cylon, he doesn't get lynched. If we vote to lynch him on any other day from now on whether he's a cylon or not, it's a lynch.

[Silverwolf]

Look at the poll. a2thezebra is not an option.

Wow, I just looked and noticed this. Is it something new that happened with the secret role being revealed I wonder? Like they can remove someone from the lynch pool?

[Polo]

I'll be pushing for anyone who hasn't claimed yet unless they make a very good case on someone else. If the Cylon Amnesty Act is not overturned by the President, the people can make it ineffective. But I do think that there may be a couple of people who can not ever say "I am a Cylon" for role reasons.

Why do you think this? And which roles do you think this applies to?

I can imagine someone like Cain or Cavil being unable to say "I am a Cylon". Cain because, well, she's Admiral Cain, and Cavil because he's the mastermind and can't reveal "Hey, I'm a Cylon" to everybody.

[bea]

And so the AaronLittleton hunt begins.

funny how witch was turned into aaron little.

[Dex]

Look at the poll. a2thezebra is not an option.

Wow, I just looked and noticed this. Is it something new that happened with the secret role being revealed I wonder? Like they can remove someone from the lynch pool?

I suspect its a prize for winning a contest but I'm just guessing.

[Polo]

Look at the poll. a2thezebra is not an option.

Wow, I just looked and noticed this. Is it something new that happened with the secret role being revealed I wonder? Like they can remove someone from the lynch pool?

The secret role is Admiral Cain, AFAIK.

Golden said some people may have secret powers.

linki: Yeah, Dex, that sounds plausible too.

[bea]

And so the AaronLittleton hunt begins.

I actually wanted to vote you too, and I think more people would be willing to follow that vote tbh, but I don't trust OA in the slightest.

I believe it's convenient that you were "insanified", and I think it's weird you're allowed to talk about only one player. Again, has anyone ever seen insanity work like that before?

I haven't - but it doesn't mean that in a semi-closed set up - with lots and lots of secrets that such a thing *can't* occur.


two linkis I ignored to post and keep trudging along plus dex -

That's where my head was too Dex - we've had 2 contests. Not a streach to think it could be a prize tbh.

[bea]

Updated list of Non-Claimers
a2thezebra
DrWilgy
Epignosis
Glorfindel
OA
Ricotech
Sokoth
Vompatti

Off this list, I'm gonna vote for either DrWilgy or Glorfindel-I will re ISO Glorfindel. Wilgy, I'm not trying to force you into any certain style of play but answering my questions will help me read you better. Glorfindel asked about my suspicions and tried to address them. That's a point in his favor and a negative in yours. Again, I want to get the best read I can on you both because off the above list, one of you two are it, since sig claimed for real and likely isn't a good option now for today because he claimed today.

I'm not going to witch hunt off this list. I'm only gonna pick people on it I'm suspicious of. If the only nonclaimers seem town, then I'll leave them alone.

I still don't understand why sig is a bad vote option if he claimed propper. I thought that's WHY people were trying to get everyone to claim - so that if you suspected the person, you could vote them and if they didn't die - they were cylon.

I KNOW that yesterday I was the the talk of lots of potential votes based on just that reason. Pressure her to claim by voting to see if she lives.

You can't have half a witch hunt afterall... it's the sort of thing one should go all in on.

[bea]

I'd also still be willing to lynch Long Con. Black Rock's support of him holds some weight and he definitely is showing a lot of effort and not knowing about certain things that'd I'd expect him too seems genuine but I have a bad feeling about him I can't shake.

ISOing Glorfindel he has a few good posts and explains himself well. I don't like his voting pattern and behavior around lynches however.

Wilgy seems just too unreadable for me and I didn't like IAWY so I guess that's my biggest complaint about him.

bea has just faded fast, I know she's busy but even her last catch up was basically a bunch of nothing, just kind of floating around here and there.

again - if there is something specific you'd like me to respond to - I'm happy to do it. Please do consider I work a 60 hour a week job and often only get 1 day off and sometimes that day and the day I crash and burn and sleep like 16 hours aren't always the same day. I run a business and often have to drop every bit of my free time *including silly things like sleep and mafia* for it.

[Dex]

I'm not sure how a sig vote is wasted?

If we vote to lynch him today and he's a cylon, he doesn't get lynched. If we vote to lynch him on any other day from now on whether he's a cylon or not, it's a lynch.

[Silverwolf]

Wow, I butchered the hell out of that quote.

Oh well, I think it's clear what I mean.

What's clear (to anyone who wants to really look) is that you completely avoided engaging with any of my points or questions, and moved right to your tired old schtick of "he's misrepresenting! he's discrediting!" But don't worry, I doubt anyone will bother looking.

as much as it pains me to say this, you might be on to sonmething here.

bea-In going through your ISO, I saw this post. You also made a lot of posts agreeing with Long Con or supporting him in some ways-telling him you were listening, etc.

So my question is, do you have a civ reading on Long Con and if so, elaborate on it please?

A lot of your comments are kind of offhand comments that make it hard for me to get a read of you. So if you elaborate on one of your reads, this will help me a lot and I imagine others as well.

bea-I just posted this today not that long ago. I don't know how you do catchups and I know you are busy, but I'm not sure how you could of missed it either, especially since you are responding to others. It disturbs me that you are not addressing my concerns.

[Silverwolf]

Also, I'm gonna do a little I'm busy rant. And this is not personal to you bea as a lot of people have been doing it.

Listen, we all get busy IRL. I don't expect anyone to live their life playing mafia. But if you sign up for a game and are continuously talking about how busy you are, and not addressing questions/concerns, not posting enough content to get a good read from, and similar play, then I get frustrated by it.

Why? because you signed up for a game and I do expect some participation from people that do.

End I'm busy rant.

[bea]

I think the claimers need to get on the same page and start flushing out these toaster sympathizers.

If not OA, fine. Even though I currently think she's civ, I'd even be down with pressuring Zeebs to say it. Any of 'em!

None of the non-claimers have yet to give a reason why they think Cylons with a lynch immunity at LYLO is a good idea.

because the cylon holding that lynch immunity at LYLO *could* mathematically be a final 5 member (and you know as well as I do that 4 out of 5 of them were civ aligned and human in spirit to their core) vs x number of Cavil and his cohorts which - if the town quit fighting each other we would hopefully have trimmed Cavli's numbers on by LYLO. But still we keep hunting witches. And hating everyone who doesn't want to claim.

I said it way back when I was accused of role claiming. And really REALLY didn't want to claim. You said you read me but missed me being the only one to answer the question you keep harping on.

But you keep your tin foil hat on matty. We are used to seeing it on you.

And if you want to flush out a "toaster sympathizer" then just lynch me now and be done with it. I'm still what I always claimed to be. A human who can see the potential good in particular cylons. You used to think the same way when we were talking about epi and Athena....

linki - silver -again - I ask you because you are here and now - and because I'm still pages behind and because I probably did see it while I was trying to keep up on a fast moving thread at work when I couldn't comment and ment to bookmark it in my head - and just forgot. Could you please please sum up your worries that I've not addressed so I can address them without ISOing you because I'm still behind and I still haven't eaten today and I STILL want to play the game and do everything I can to convince you that I'm the civ I am. Because I do have to get to bed sometime soon as I have to wake up early and work *another* 12 hour day where I will continue to try to keep up on my phone - not be able to say anything and make 11tymillion pizzas and do the things I have to do. I missed and forgot something. I'm asking for help. I'm not asking for a break. I'm not asking to be let off the hook - I'm just asking you to restate what I missed.

I'm sorry if you think that's too much for me to ask. I don't think I've been rude about it and I don't think that I've asked for anything I wouldn't do for anyone else who asked it of me. And I certainly don't think it's in the least anything more than you've asked the game to do for you.

[bea]

My goal is an orderly, regular Lynch.

That would be different and refreshing.

[bea]

I'd also still be willing to lynch Long Con. Black Rock's support of him holds some weight and he definitely is showing a lot of effort and not knowing about certain things that'd I'd expect him too seems genuine but I have a bad feeling about him I can't shake.

Is anyone else willing to vote LC? Can I convince you, S~V~S? It might be good to have the most votes on him before the night is half over, to ensure he won't jump the fleet early and all the votes will count. Assuming he's Cain. Which I do.

I said I would give him time,which to me means until the end of the day. If nothing Cain related happens,I can then more to the next day and wait. I would love to lynch him, but he makes be feel bad, and BR makes me feel worse, but when I was trying to push for that,no one else seemed to be hearing what I was saying, or if they were, they did not agree. This is a huge part of the problem the civs have on this site in general; everyone wants to flog their own suspects, and no one is willing to listen to anyone else. We have one guy going on about JJJ, and tbh, that is the worst possible lynch, imo. Everybody only cares about their own suspects.

This is why I asked everyone to picl their top three last night, maybe we can come to a consensus.

I think Wilgy is likely to be cylon. I thought IAWY was a cylon, the only person who has history with IAWY thought he was a cylon, and Wilgy is not acting like a civ. He is my primary candidate for a cylon.

Wigly calling me good earlier felt like he was saying it so he could be right when everyone lynched me. FWIW.

[bea]

Updated list of Non-Claimers

a2thezebra
DrWilgy
Epignosis
Glorfindel
OA
Ricotech
Sokoth
Vompatti

How many players do we have in the game? 24, 25? Two-thirds of the town have agreed that claiming is in the town's best interest, so essentially, all of these players are anti-town as of now.

We need to put pressure on them. Do I think they're all "bad" ? No. Do I think Cavil and/or other bad cylons are hiding in this bunch? Absolutely.

I think we should start with OA, who can't claim cuz of "punishments" but will totes claim if we lynch LC despite "punishments".

ObscureAllure

Linki - Oh okay, nvm now she was "just kidding". Someone help me pressure her please.

So Say We All!

I'm sorry, my friend but you're posting the wrong list... The list that YOU should be posting (that would be infinitely more helpful to us) is the list of players that HAVE claimed in sequence of when they claimed (and preferably with the times they claimed so we can timeline them). Let me make this crystal clear, I'm in no way accusing you of anything but others (like well, umm Polo for instance) who seem obsessed with the first list you posted are I believe leading us down the garden path. What is happening here is what is referred to as selection bias and it's being perpetrated on a Town team that is largely far to accepting of it. Continually posting that list only focuses attention on those that for a variety of different reasons have not claimed.

As I said earlier, it seems only logical to me that the real Baddies have already jumped ship and claimed leaving them time to hide and help drive lynches on those who haven't/won't claim and so gain an advantage over us. I am highly suspicious of those who insist on driving this misguided agenda.

See - posts like these make me not want to lynch Glor.

[bea]

Enough with this claiming bullshit. I'm going to start voting people who keep it up. Get to talking suspects or get to taking my vote.

There's a reason epi is Athena methinks.

[Silverwolf]

bea-seriously?

I requoted it for you in the linki you addressed.

sigh............I've brought it up twice

[Silverwolf]

Wow, I butchered the hell out of that quote.

Oh well, I think it's clear what I mean.

What's clear (to anyone who wants to really look) is that you completely avoided engaging with any of my points or questions, and moved right to your tired old schtick of "he's misrepresenting! he's discrediting!" But don't worry, I doubt anyone will bother looking.

as much as it pains me to say this, you might be on to sonmething here.

bea-In going through your ISO, I saw this post. You also made a lot of posts agreeing with Long Con or supporting him in some ways-telling him you were listening, etc.

So my question is, do you have a civ reading on Long Con and if so, elaborate on it please?

A lot of your comments are kind of offhand comments that make it hard for me to get a read of you. So if you elaborate on one of your reads, this will help me a lot and I imagine others as well.

bea-I just posted this today not that long ago. I don't know how you do catchups and I know you are busy, but I'm not sure how you could of missed it either, especially since you are responding to others. It disturbs me that you are not addressing my concerns.

3rd time

[bea]

Wow, I butchered the hell out of that quote.

Oh well, I think it's clear what I mean.

What's clear (to anyone who wants to really look) is that you completely avoided engaging with any of my points or questions, and moved right to your tired old schtick of "he's misrepresenting! he's discrediting!" But don't worry, I doubt anyone will bother looking.

as much as it pains me to say this, you might be on to sonmething here.

bea-In going through your ISO, I saw this post. You also made a lot of posts agreeing with Long Con or supporting him in some ways-telling him you were listening, etc.

So my question is, do you have a civ reading on Long Con and if so, elaborate on it please?

A lot of your comments are kind of offhand comments that make it hard for me to get a read of you. So if you elaborate on one of your reads, this will help me a lot and I imagine others as well.

Ok - you picked a doozy here so - bear with me.

I have a loooooooong history of NOT ever ever trusting Long Con. Like ever. LIke really really ever. I call him Lucy to my Charlie Brown. And then we had the Champs game where we had that bright second of civ BTS. And even then - ask him it took me AAAAAAGES to trust him. But in light of that, I'm trying to go against every knee jerk reaction I have about Long Con because I realize it's *my* bias that always makes him bad in my head.

Also - he's one of the few people who have acknowledged that you know I'm paying attention even when I go a long time without taking- when everyone else seems to think I'm flaking out and bad. So if he's willing to listen to me - I'm willing to at least listen to him. Also - as I can see how he could be cain. I could see as much as how he's accusing others of "role playing" that some of his earlier behavior that he chalked up to as being "ornery ole lc" (which is honestly prolly true) could also maybe be viewed as "role playing" too - so I'm willing to give him a little rope and some rye.

I get where Dex and SVS are coming from about him and *believe* me my gut wants to jump right into their hunt too - because in my head "a living long con is almost always a bad long con", but I'm trying to learn to get to know the player better. So that the player and the guy I know can start meshing together some. Does that make sense to you?

As for other reads - I think you are civ - and I think SVS, dex and rico are civ. I adore epi and cylon or no I hope he's around at endgame. I lean civ on glor cuz he makes posts like the one I just quoted. I thought matt was civ but I worry about his statement about "toaster sympathizers" and his call to "claimers" to own up and put pressure on people. Because like Rico - I saw this witch hunt coming and no one can deny that's what it's turning into. Good on you and Daisy for saying it won't ONLY be a factor. Now look at matt and polo's posts and say with a straight face they aren't hunting witches. Because they totally are.

I'm not sure about OA and Gman, but I hope they are civ. I think Daisy might be civ. I worry about her focus on me and my "claim" being looking like she's baddie hunting when deep down she knew nothing was going to come of it. Or she really thought it. I'm unsure here. Baddie Daisy has snuck up on me more than once. The kingon is too new to me to get a real handle on and I tried to help him make a post like this one but I failed because he hasn't.

I think zeeb is an enigma this game. I want to trust her. She seems to know things, but I'm not sure how she knows things and I'm not sure where she's coming from. Honestly before Lorab flipped I had her pegged as d'anna. She's keeping her cards *very* close to her chest and I can see civ and mafia reaosns for doing that.

[bea]

I think that's what you were looking for? Was it not?

I'm sorry - it took me yes - that long to get to your post and yes - I missed this one in linki dispite the fact that I replied to your "you didn't adress it" post - please believe I've responded to everything I could to you as I read it. I promise I'm not trying to mess with you.

[ObscureAllure]

Wigly

For reasons already stated by myself and nearly everyone else, and his recent approach to me. He's going to end up claiming and be free this lynch, no doubt, but I still want to take my pound of flesh.

Linki: that's funny, I never trust LC either. And the one time I did, he was playing me.

[bea]

Five bucks says Matt and Wigly have BTSC.

whyfore?

[bea]

see silver - I've not gone back to post this for this reason - the oa post I quoted was the first time I'd seen it.

The way linki works is it only shows you the posts you make *at the same time* if you posted before me or after me - I just have to stumble on it. I go in my "catch up" till I hit the last post I made then I'm "caught up." I didn't mean to ask you to repeat yourself 3 times. I just didn't see the first time you asked the thing till I got to it. Ya see?

[bea]

I agree with everything bea has said in her most recent posts.

please know that I mean this with the utmost respect - but I'm slightly weirded out that we see this game as eye to eye as we do.

You're town read of me doesn't worry me as much as wilgly's does. but it surprises me in ways I'm not sure what to do with.

and also thank you for your support.