[ENDGAME] The Office Mafia

[DrumBeats]

Humor them INH.

GTH

espers - who knows

insertnamehere - ask me again tomorrow

LoRab - same

I'm asking you again tomorrow now. (Except you know, two days later cause I forgot) How do you feel about INH and LoRab?

@ linki Epi - I find your timing for the FS focus to be equally odd with INH's defense timing. I find a lot more things about INH odd though, I'm just trying to figure out what of it is alignment indicative. NO U'ing just about everyone seems like a surefire way to get yourself lynched imo, which is why I'm skeptical that a mafia member would do it, but at the same time, I don't see any reason a civ would either.

[DrumBeats]

Another person I want to open up discussion on is espers. Espers doesn't post for a week, and before that barely posts. After a week-long absense unannounced, espers "returns" 3 hours after I mention the inactivity being suspicious. Then there's this post:

fingersplints spent a lot of time talking about the civ redirector role in relatiom to svs and turned out to have that role, there's a strong possibility she was behind that. Looking though her iso for any breadcrumbs, i'm not finding much; how is that typically done here?

I'm curious as to how espers, who had previously not read up on enough of the thread to provide anything, noticed this:

Also TurnipHead. His constant defense of SVS reminds me of AWR when we had quite a few circumstantial pieces of evidence that SVS was bad and he still refused to believe it. (She was bad, so were TH and I, on the opposite team, ftr). I'll be keeping an eye on him for now, if SVS were lynched and came back civ he would jump up to #1 for me.

I forgot to respond to this. I don't really understand the connection you're drawing. I'm sure I've defended SVS just as often as I've accused her, I'm probably batting .500. I feel okay about your motives though so feel free to keep an eye on me

It means I question your ability to read SVS and I feel like you lean civ on her a bit more than is warranted.

ripiywg SVS... it's not unheard of for the mafia to kill one of their own. Especially if they thought she would be getting lynched today, plus it saves her team from having to defend her. And it makes everyone go WTF.

Since it seems weird with all the attention, maybe she wasn't the intended target?

Oscar – Oscar is definitely not into the (state) senator. Oscar is pretty attentive to detail as an accountant and can change who someone targets each night.

This was posted on the Saturday in the middle of espers's disappearance. While I definitely agree with the recent post that this likely happened now, but Espers being the one to point it out is suspicious imo. If espers could notice that, why couldn't espers provide anything else to conversation. I think espers has been strategically lurking this whole time, and has been actively keeping up with the thread.

[Turnip Head]

Humor them INH.

GTH

espers - who knows

insertnamehere - ask me again tomorrow

LoRab - same

I'm asking you again tomorrow now. (Except you know, two days later cause I forgot) How do you feel about INH and LoRab?

@ linki Epi - I find your timing for the FS focus to be equally odd with INH's defense timing. I find a lot more things about INH odd though, I'm just trying to figure out what of it is alignment indicative. NO U'ing just about everyone seems like a surefire way to get yourself lynched imo, which is why I'm skeptical that a mafia member would do it, but at the same time, I don't see any reason a civ would either.

I feel okay about Lorab, I keep going back and forth on INH.

[LoRab]

Sleeping a bit and rereading a bit, my suspicion of DF remains. With Splints flipping civ, I can't help but think that her lynch was a bandwagon that got going to save DF, who seems to me to have been the next most likely person to have been lynched. Which further firms my own suspicion of him, and makes me eye those who voted Splints. INH's post actively throwing doubt on those of us who had voted DF, fairly early on in the lynch, before Splints' lynch got steam, makes me throw an eyeball that way.

[espers]

Another person I want to open up discussion on is espers. Espers doesn't post for a week, and before that barely posts. After a week-long absense unannounced, espers "returns" 3 hours after I mention the inactivity being suspicious. Then there's this post:

fingersplints spent a lot of time talking about the civ redirector role in relatiom to svs and turned out to have that role, there's a strong possibility she was behind that. Looking though her iso for any breadcrumbs, i'm not finding much; how is that typically done here?

I'm curious as to how espers, who had previously not read up on enough of the thread to provide anything, noticed this:

Also TurnipHead. His constant defense of SVS reminds me of AWR when we had quite a few circumstantial pieces of evidence that SVS was bad and he still refused to believe it. (She was bad, so were TH and I, on the opposite team, ftr). I'll be keeping an eye on him for now, if SVS were lynched and came back civ he would jump up to #1 for me.

I forgot to respond to this. I don't really understand the connection you're drawing. I'm sure I've defended SVS just as often as I've accused her, I'm probably batting .500. I feel okay about your motives though so feel free to keep an eye on me

It means I question your ability to read SVS and I feel like you lean civ on her a bit more than is warranted.

ripiywg SVS... it's not unheard of for the mafia to kill one of their own. Especially if they thought she would be getting lynched today, plus it saves her team from having to defend her. And it makes everyone go WTF.

Since it seems weird with all the attention, maybe she wasn't the intended target?

Oscar – Oscar is definitely not into the (state) senator. Oscar is pretty attentive to detail as an accountant and can change who someone targets each night.

This was posted on the Saturday in the middle of espers's disappearance. While I definitely agree with the recent post that this likely happened now, but Espers being the one to point it out is suspicious imo. If espers could notice that, why couldn't espers provide anything else to conversation. I think espers has been strategically lurking this whole time, and has been actively keeping up with the thread.

did you read my response to your iso questions?

[Epignosis]

I voted insertnamehere.

[DrumBeats]

Yes I did.

Quoting it for everyone's reference.

Epsers ISO

Spoiler: show

Hello, people. Haven't read through the thread yet, will do so after lunch. If anyone has any questions for me, let me know.

Fluff just after subbing in. Very understandable thing to say after subbing in but not alignment indicative.

You know what helps a lie detector? Quietly making a statement that you know will help them see that you are civ.

You know what doesn't help them? Getting all players to say it and getting the whole thing thrown out as unusable.

And what really really doesn't help is then winking and saying you knew that, Muhuhaha. Because now day 1 is about you.

not a fan. Maybe you won't care. And because of course you will ask. I am town aligned.

I thinkyou're talking to me so I'll respond. I wasn't going to ask anybody else to say it because the point's already been made that saying 'I am town aligned' isn't worth a damn to a lie detector. It was unusable from the start, so there's no reason why I can't find a use for it myself.

-wink-, muhuhaha.

Muhuhaha indeed, lol!

People who know Quin, how likely is it that he would read that role and miss the part about not using blanket statements? I'm rusty, and have lost track of who plays like what...

This post reminds me of what I've done in the past as scum, asking about someone's meta to look like you're producing content and shift the focus onto others if they bite. timmer is hedgy with this, not committing to a stance.

Also, it seems pretty inaccurate to say that quin missed that part of the role when he acknowledged it in the post timmer was referring to here. Bad look.

Interesting stance on timmer, who was not a point of contention at the time.

So the thing we voted on, Personnel won and now roles have been revealed? Why only townies? If we voted management would have that revealed the roles of the management? I seem to recall a post here wherein the management is a separate group.

Checking out!

This is suspicious at surface level, none of these questions have a hope of producing substantive content if i'm right in my interpretation of the infodumping rules.

Serge, do you have any thoughts on the game's progression so far? Any suspicions of players?

linki: i had this written up before going to do some vacuuming, then when i came back it turned out people have mentioned him

Calls out Serge early for his lack of post-content.

Sorry all I'm doing construction (of all things lol) all day today and zipping over on a date to see Independence Day right after. So I'm not gonna be around much at all leading up to EoD

I've skimmed the past few pages and only have a few things to say:
-Where is Matt? People have been answering for him, which he has expressly said he doesn't like other people doing for other people.
-Wilgy, don't you think that acting the same way as your bad self in another game could be perceived as alignment indicative? Like, just a little? This is like bubble gum bursting in your face, looking in the mirror and going, "I'm still beautiful", tossing back that lock of hair back and saying 'screw the haters!' In other words, this could just be Wilgy being Wilgy. Or it could be Wilgy misspeaking himself into a corner.
-Goldy has yet to check in, and honestly that is where my vote is going right now. Day 1's gonna Day 1, and I think suspicions will make more sense when we see a flip.

vote Goldy

I hope to check back in before EoD, but can't promise it

Goldy was the person I replaced. Others have mentioned it recently, I'd also like to see it clarified. How would my role being flipped make suspicions "make more sense"?

Questions Scotty on the same basis that I was.

I always feel bad about birdwithteeth because he gets lynched so early all the time.

Are you saying you don't think he should be lynched? Not really sure what you're going for here.

Questions Epi

Hi, sorry for missing the vote. Had the deadline wrong in my head, won't let it happen again.

Fwiw I'd have voted BWT.

Fluff, also Espers's last post.

Between Night 1 and Night 2
Fluff: 2
Content: 4

I have to say, what I saw from espers I liked, but the fact that Espers has not checked in since Night 2 makes me wonder what's up with him. The huge streak of inactivity makes me very skeptical.

My rating:

5/10

Questions:
Where are ya?
I'm here. If you're asking about my activity level, my access has been sporadic due to being busier irl than i'd anticipated. Also i was silenced d4, it didn't occur to me that I could claim at the time.

What are your thoughts on QuinGate (SVS's "forced" vote of Quin)?
I don't think SVS was forced, I don't see how it would be reasonable given the roles we've seen so far. I'm working under the assumption she was mafia at present. I was a bit stuck for a while on why they would kill their teammate; as someone said (enrique, i think?) that nullifies the mechanical advantage they get from the insta-day and double night.

I've come to the conclusion that it was a setup to throw off the town. The only person who was "cleared" as far as i can see is Epi (because of "svs would never distance that early" wifom). So yeah, epi is scum. I'm not sure i'm explaining that clearly, it makes sense in my head.

Who are your top scumreads as of now?
Epi as I mentioned. INH also feels bad, he keeps expressing things in terms of negatives ("x strategy never works") without offering alternatives and focussing on self defense.

Scotty is also pinging me with his reaction to TH's eod5. I see that kind of eod shenanigans as pro-civ behaviour generally, his suspicion feels contrived. To say he's a top scumread for that would be a stretch though, I'll look into him further.

The post itself feels fine to me, but again, the timing of all of your stuff just throws me off. You don't post until I say I'm skeptical of your activity, and then you post three hours later. You clearly have been keeping up enough to catch FingerSplints crumbing, but you have barely contributed to the thread. You hadn't even posted today until I brought it up. It feels like you're strategically laying low and lurking.

[insertnamehere]

So what we have here is the driving force and initial vote behind a civilian lynch trying to shift the blame and suspicion from himself to someone who (contrary to what he claims) genuinely tried to stop it, does everyone see this? His only two points are: He was too late to stop me from lynching a civilian, and therefore it's his fault, and he thinks DF isn't bad, so, therefore they must be in cahoots, did I get it all right? This is an absolutely barmy case, alright?

Do you think I should be lynched, INH?

this is the part that really gets to me, okay? I feel like I've been trapped in these damned-if-I-do, damned-if-I-don't scenarios where I and another person mutually suspect each other, but the other person starts screaming 'NO U,' even though they say that I'm bad after I say that I suspect them, and even though I have other legitimate reasons for suspecting them outside of me thinking everyone who suspects me must be bad, okay? it's like any case I make can be invalidated by the person that I make the case on putting together something weak against me, waiting for me to respond, then pulling a NO U, and waiting for me to get pissed off and over-defensive, therefore making me look like a crazy person who's taking the game way too personal and forcing people to ignore my original points and my original case, okay?

it is, in my opinion, a shitty manipulative way to play the game, okay? and not the cool, deceptive manipulation that's why I enjoy mafia, but just intentionally pushing someone's buttons, and forcing them to stress out, okay? this entire fucking game I've been on blast for reasons that simply seem utterly irrelevant to me, and the only time I feel like people have listened to me in this game is Day 1, when I accidentally got a civilian lynched, okay? so this hasn't been the best game for me, okay?

the thing is, Epignosis knew all of this, okay? That's why he picked me as the ideal patsy, okay? He knew that he could just lob a few softballs at me, which would then infuriate me, and make my original points moot, okay? He also knew that people like timmer and Enrique have been wanting my blood ever since the whole goddamn Matt clusterfuck, (which thank you so fucking much for 3J, I hope you got the goddamn reaction you were hoping for) and my aggressive irreverence makes me an easy target, okay?

the whole thing just reeks of cynical opportunism and attempted gaslighting to me, okay? it feels calculated, disingenuine, and just really fucking scummy, okay?

So, I'm voting for Epignosis, okay? I know that no one will listen to me, because obviously this whole entire thing is just a shallow scummy no u on my part, but this is how I genuinely feel, okay? vote for me if you find it scummy, okay?

[insertnamehere]

I started playing mafia for 3 reasons, okay?

1. Because I enjoyed the analysis, fact-searching, bluffery that made up the game, okay?

2. Because of the cool, crazy, and inventive games, okay?

3. A community that, for being built around a game about lying, deceit, and mistrust, is surprisingly welcoming and inclusive, okay?

I don't know if I'm gonna keep playing if it's just now a thing where civilians act like jerks to people in order to "study their reactions," and the mafia acts like jerks to people in order to manipulate them into getting stressed out, annoyed, and being taken less seriously in the thread, okay?

Maybe the game's just evolved into it's next stage?

Or maybe it's devolved?

[insertnamehere]

if someone who is not me could quote my posts without the "okays" in them, I would really appreciate it, okay?

[insertnamehere]

I'm sorry if my posts were aggressive or personal, I didn't intend them to be, okay?

This has been a crappy, stressful last couple of weeks for not just me, but everyone, okay?

[Turnip Head]

So what we have here is the driving force and initial vote behind a civilian lynch trying to shift the blame and suspicion from himself to someone who (contrary to what he claims) genuinely tried to stop it, does everyone see this? His only two points are: He was too late to stop me from lynching a civilian, and therefore it's his fault, and he thinks DF isn't bad, so, therefore they must be in cahoots, did I get it all right? This is an absolutely barmy case, alright?

Do you think I should be lynched, INH?

this is the part that really gets to me, okay? I feel like I've been trapped in these damned-if-I-do, damned-if-I-don't scenarios where I and another person mutually suspect each other, but the other person starts screaming 'NO U,' even though they say that I'm bad after I say that I suspect them, and even though I have other legitimate reasons for suspecting them outside of me thinking everyone who suspects me must be bad, okay? it's like any case I make can be invalidated by the person that I make the case on putting together something weak against me, waiting for me to respond, then pulling a NO U, and waiting for me to get pissed off and over-defensive, therefore making me look like a crazy person who's taking the game way too personal and forcing people to ignore my original points and my original case, okay?

it is, in my opinion, a shitty manipulative way to play the game, okay? and not the cool, deceptive manipulation that's why I enjoy mafia, but just intentionally pushing someone's buttons, and forcing them to stress out, okay? this entire fucking game I've been on blast for reasons that simply seem utterly irrelevant to me, and the only time I feel like people have listened to me in this game is Day 1, when I accidentally got a civilian lynched, okay? so this hasn't been the best game for me, okay?

the thing is, Epignosis knew all of this, okay? That's why he picked me as the ideal patsy, okay? He knew that he could just lob a few softballs at me, which would then infuriate me, and make my original points moot, okay? He also knew that people like timmer and Enrique have been wanting my blood ever since the whole goddamn Matt clusterfuck, (which thank you so fucking much for 3J, I hope you got the goddamn reaction you were hoping for) and my aggressive irreverence makes me an easy target, okay?

the whole thing just reeks of cynical opportunism and attempted gaslighting to me, okay? it feels calculated, disingenuine, and just really fucking scummy, okay?

So, I'm voting for Epignosis, okay? I know that no one will listen to me, because obviously this whole entire thing is just a shallow scummy no u on my part, but this is how I genuinely feel, okay? vote for me if you find it scummy, okay?

The way I see it, this guy is either a civ or the most sociopathic mafioso that ever lived. No baddie argues their innocence like this.

[insertnamehere]

The way I see it, this guy is either a civ or the most sociopathic mafioso that ever lived. No baddie argues their innocence like this.

Where do you stand on Epignosis?

[Turnip Head]

The way I see it, this guy is either a civ or the most sociopathic mafioso that ever lived. No baddie argues their innocence like this.

Where do you stand on Epignosis?

I have a specific civilian role in mind for him. I think he's genuinely trying to figure you out.

[insertnamehere]

The way I see it, this guy is either a civ or the most sociopathic mafioso that ever lived. No baddie argues their innocence like this.

Where do you stand on Epignosis?

I have a specific civilian role in mind for him. I think he's genuinely trying to figure you out.

How much will you accept under the mantle of "trying to figure someone out?"

[DrumBeats]

Where do both of you stand on espers?

[DrumBeats]

The way I see it, this guy is either a civ or the most sociopathic mafioso that ever lived. No baddie argues their innocence like this.

Where do you stand on Epignosis?

I have a specific civilian role in mind for him. I think he's genuinely trying to figure you out.

OHHH, I think I might actually know what you're thinking of there. That's interesting. Not sure if we're thinking the same one, but I'm thinking Epi makes a whole lot more sense with one civ role.

[insertnamehere]

Where do both of you stand on espers?

I stand on an ivory platform of ambivalence.

Where do you stand on Epignosis?

[DrumBeats]

Where do both of you stand on espers?

I stand on an ivory platform of ambivalence.

Where do you stand on Epignosis?

I was previously more unsure of him, but I'm actually leaning civ now.

[insertnamehere]

Where do both of you stand on espers?

I stand on an ivory platform of ambivalence, okay?

Where do you stand on Epignosis?

Fixed?

[insertnamehere]

The way I see it, this guy is either a civ or the most sociopathic mafioso that ever lived. No baddie argues their innocence like this.

Where do you stand on Epignosis?

I have a specific civilian role in mind for him. I think he's genuinely trying to figure you out.

OHHH, I think I might actually know what you're thinking of there. That's interesting. Not sure if we're thinking the same one, but I'm thinking Epi makes a whole lot more sense with one civ role.

Maybe I'm just biased, stupid, or some combination of the two, but I have no idea what you're talking about, okay?

Could you be more specific?

[insertnamehere]

Where do both of you stand on espers?

I stand on an ivory platform of ambivalence.

Where do you stand on Epignosis?

I was previously more unsure of him, but I'm actually leaning civ now.

[Turnip Head]

Where do both of you stand on espers?

If we're going down that road I'd rather lynch SpaceDaisy.

[LoRab]

@INH: In light of Splints' flipping civ and there being a pile up of votes on her (which, to me, says bandwagon--which means not all baddies, but certainly some). Does that change your view of DF?

[insertnamehere]

@INH: In light of Splints' flipping civ and there being a pile up of votes on her (which, to me, says bandwagon--which means not all baddies, but certainly some). Does that change your view of DF?

If anything, it just reinforces my view of him as civ, okay?

[Scotty]

I'm very behind as usual.

Epi, correct me if I'm wrong, but your only case on me seemed to be the notion that Splints and I were baddie teammates. Now that's been disproved, do you have anything for me to work with beyond the notion that INH and I are baddie teammates?

Talk to me about today's lynch.

I suspect all 4 baddies are still alive, so I'm going to try to figure out what combinations would make sense later today. Off the top of my head, I'd guess it's a mix of Daisy, Espers, Timmer, Bea, and Lorab. But that's without any actual analysis, I'll get to that in a bit.

So after the fingersplints lynch, does INH still feel genuine to you? It seems that way, since you didn't name him off the top of your head.

This statement sounds like you are certain there are 4 baddies. I mean, I made that argument that at least 1 is probably dead, but why do you sound so certain that there's 4?

[LoRab]

@INH: In light of Splints' flipping civ and there being a pile up of votes on her (which, to me, says bandwagon--which means not all baddies, but certainly some). Does that change your view of DF?

If anything, it just reinforces my view of him as civ, okay?

OK. But can you explain how that logic works? A player had 2 votes. A slew of votes pile up on another player. That other player is civ. I would really like to know your logic on how that makes it more likely that the original player is civ.

Seriously--please explain your logic. Even in questions.

[DrumBeats]

Where do both of you stand on espers?

If we're going down that road I'd rather lynch SpaceDaisy.

Those are two completely different roads though. What's your case on Spacedaisy?

[Turnip Head]

Where do both of you stand on espers?

If we're going down that road I'd rather lynch SpaceDaisy.

Those are two completely different roads though. What's your case on Spacedaisy?

I mean the road of lynching a nonparticipant. IMO espers has screwed us either way because we can't afford to mislynch him at this stage of the game, but he's given us no way to deduce his alignment and hasn't helped us solve the game. At this point he's a warm body that I'm just praying is on our side.

My case on Spacedaisy is I went back and looked at her posts in Death Note, the only game I remember playing where she was bad, and she did that teeter-totter between opinions thing that she did here during the SVS fiasco. It gives the appearance of evolving thoughts. That one post was really her only meaty contribution to the game, I think it's interesting that she picked that topic to go all detailed with, when she hasn't done that really anywhere else, so maybe it was just for show. I don't know that she'd lay THAT low as a baddie but I've seen her pull off a quiet baddie game before, she was busy IRL at the time and it worked in her favor, so who knows.

[Scotty]

That little blowup by INH I read as one of two ways: a frustrated civ with a diatribe against "The Man", so to speak; or the voice of a Mafia spinster that a lot of us are accurately feeling, using his question curse as a crutch.

I want to choose to believe he's the former in this situation, and I don't for the life of me know if I can delve into him as a lunch candidate today. I don't know if his vote history is all that demonstrative as a key suspicion.

Spacedaisy and espers--

I want to hear from Spacedaisy. The longer she sits in silence the more I eye her.

I'm liking these recent contributions from espers, but I don't know if it's just a casual effort on his part to appear a part of things again.

Both of them have missed votes, but a lot of espers' votes in particular have been most likely Merideth-enforced (if she is still alive), so who the hell knows what he's really thinking.

Spacedaisy recently was the tail end of the splints train, and was not forced. So she at least had a conscience in her vote, though it also is most unhelpful, since she had no real qualms that I can see coming before the vote.

[indiglo]

#GlompingZombieHugsForINH

#FeelBetter

[Scotty]

I'm sorry, Spacedaisy wasn't last to vote for splints- that honor is bea's. Who I figured was a lock for a kill considering all 6 participants of the GTH reads read her as civ. But I think fitting her into a cast right now is bonkers. I just keep wondering why she's alive (as well as me but w/e I said I was done trying to figure out NK motives)

I'm not silenced, many apologies. I'm failing at multitasking. I voted and went to post, but at the same time I was trying to rush into the Syndicate Sim, which I am exceedingly late to, and I had some computer glitch issues at the same time which shut all my windows, so I forgot to post. Frankly I have no good reason for voting Splints. I have no good reason for anything, nor any great desire for anything. I simply tossed my vote out in an effort to not miss the vote.

This is a post that is like a baseball pitcher putting on a blindfold, spinning around 23 times, throwing the ball and hoping he gets a touchdown. It's really quite honest in its premise, but also says absolutely nothing of use in a game in which she only had 2 votes (if I'm counting correctly) that weren't forced by Merideth.

real life can get busy but this is laying down in the street and so egregiously non-commital I think I have to view this as a tactic.

[DFaraday]

I'm very behind as usual.

Epi, correct me if I'm wrong, but your only case on me seemed to be the notion that Splints and I were baddie teammates. Now that's been disproved, do you have anything for me to work with beyond the notion that INH and I are baddie teammates?

Talk to me about today's lynch.

I suspect all 4 baddies are still alive, so I'm going to try to figure out what combinations would make sense later today. Off the top of my head, I'd guess it's a mix of Daisy, Espers, Timmer, Bea, and Lorab. But that's without any actual analysis, I'll get to that in a bit.

So after the fingersplints lynch, does INH still feel genuine to you? It seems that way, since you didn't name him off the top of your head.

This statement sounds like you are certain there are 4 baddies. I mean, I made that argument that at least 1 is probably dead, but why do you sound so certain that there's 4?

Because there are four baddies listed on the first page...

[DFaraday]

I looked over Bea and Espers, and although there wasn't much, I did notice that Bea seems to have been subtly implicating Splints throughout much of the game.

kk I'm srrsly honest on thisl.

TH- follow up because I'm sure I can't -

Lorab, indi, Spinltsy were all non voices in the eternal night of svs dying.

Do you understand where Bea is going? Why am I required to see SVS exactly as she does?

Not required. I just want to hear more from you. I don't feel like I have a decent feel for you yet and I'm a bit troubled by that. Where was your day 0 suspish again? I am fail at remembering.

RIP Indi. I'm sad you didn't get the chance to jump into the game like I know you could have.

I'm definitely not acting new. Weak sauce.

I don't think it's weak. I think it's possible. I've seen players win games by acting more confused than they actuall are. I personally have won games by acting more confused than I actually am. It allows players to lay low. I don't know for sure that is what you are doing... which is why I also answered your questions to help... But it does make me concerned. I'm not giving anyone a pass, and I need the revisit everyone.

There have been several weird kills that I'm still trying to make sense of. I know if I were bad, indiglo and SVS wouldn't have been top choices of mine given they had attention on them. It makes me wonder if it's they were on to something, a setup of someone, someone who knows them well (I'm looking at you sweet Bea ), or something else like target changing.

See...it's funny - because my paranoia kicked in with a N1 kill of wabbit, followed by the whole SVS did it frame job thing, then her death, now Indi is dead.

I start thinking in my head, this looks like someone is trying to take out the HV crew. And let's be honest, I'm the easiest mark to blame for that. That's why I was sketched out last cycle about like - you and lorab and indi and sorsha. Cuz the way this kill pattern is going, it looks like a great old skool Bea frame job.

Here's the thing though, I'm not the same Bea as I was then. Look in your heart, deep deep in your heart. Do you REALLY think I would kill wabbit, try and fail to frame svs, kill her anyway then kill indi? When *you* are playing the game? How is that kill pattern not setting up a big red flag saying SPLINTSY!! I'M BAD!! Do you really think I'm that ballzy of a player? Do you really think I would do that to those players or would I rather try and fail *yet again* to try to out smart them? What do *you* think bad Bea would do now? From everything you know about me, which goal is more important to baddie Bea. Being a good baddie or getting a win?

I'd give you the "I totes believe Bea would NK wabbit N1." Cuz that shit's always funny. I'd say you and I were both in an equal position here. But from there out, does this really sound like a plan I would follow if I were bad knowing that you are playing and you know our history as well as you do?


For everyone else, this is a WIFOM argument. I'm posting this for splintsy.

In the above she elaborately details a hypothetical where someone is specifically targeting the HV players for some reason, and that Bea wouldn't do that because Splints would call her out and get her lynched, but someone is trying to frame her, or something. It felt weirdly overreactive to an offhand comment from Splints.

TH - I read your case on DF - I can see what you are saying. I'm just gun shy about it. My paranoia kicks in and I start thinking, well, he made a decent point there.

I have pretty decent feels about INH and I've come around to feeling much better about lorab. Her posts are ringing more true to me the more we go along. I feel good about you and scotty.

Everyone else I'm pretty up in the air about. If I were a good mafia player and not the suck one I've been for ages now, I'd want to look a little closer at Enrique just to see if I'm justified in my I trust him but don't trust him, I think he might be buddying me to keep me from looking at him vibes I've had, but those are just vibes and nothing concrete.

I go back and forth on literally every other player in the game. Some posts feel civ to me others don't. I wish I could say which ones are which for each player but I can't. I haven't been alloted that kind of RL time.

I'm soo so sorry you guys. Running 2 stores is killing me. I worked a 20 hour day Thurs. NO joke. Started at 8 am got home at 3 am. Had a family emergency yesterday morning so my sleep was limited - stuck at work till almost 4 am yesterday.

I'm just getting coffee now and I know I am going to be late for my shift that starts in an hour and a half. I set an alarm on my phone so that I can get back in time to vote.

I'm supre lame. I'm super sorry.

If anyone were inclined to rainbow read or point out more specific things they want an opinion on like TH has that would be super helpful to me.

Then, after mentioning Splints multiple times before, she brings up suspecting me, and makes no mention of Splints in this long post, but then randomly switches back to voting Splints without warning. I don't want to fault someone for not voting me, but it's possible she wanted to blend her vote with an indistinguishable pack (since around here, not suspecting civvies who get lynched is often seen as suspicious).

Bea made no real cases on anyone, but seems to subtly have been bringing up suspicion of Splints consistently, only capitalizing on it once the train was in full swing. It makes her more likely to be one of the baddies, in my estimation.

I looked over Esper's posts and he had none for 8 days straight, which seems unlikely for someone with BTSC, so he moves a little lower on my list. In the morning I'll look at the other three I mentioned.

[Turnip Head]

Faraday is off my list. No way he's bad after those last two posts.

I haven't actually given bea a proper read through, I tend to always assume she's good. Life is easier that way.

[Turnip Head]

Okay no, bea's not bad either. So sweet, so pure.

Fuck this game.

[Scotty]

I'm very behind as usual.

Epi, correct me if I'm wrong, but your only case on me seemed to be the notion that Splints and I were baddie teammates. Now that's been disproved, do you have anything for me to work with beyond the notion that INH and I are baddie teammates?

Talk to me about today's lynch.

I suspect all 4 baddies are still alive, so I'm going to try to figure out what combinations would make sense later today. Off the top of my head, I'd guess it's a mix of Daisy, Espers, Timmer, Bea, and Lorab. But that's without any actual analysis, I'll get to that in a bit.

So after the fingersplints lynch, does INH still feel genuine to you? It seems that way, since you didn't name him off the top of your head.

This statement sounds like you are certain there are 4 baddies. I mean, I made that argument that at least 1 is probably dead, but why do you sound so certain that there's 4?

Because there are four baddies listed on the first page...

The Scranton Strangler is not there either. Doesn't mean that role doesn't exist.

[espers]

The post itself feels fine to me, but again, the timing of all of your stuff just throws me off. You don't post until I say I'm skeptical of your activity, and then you post three hours later. You clearly have been keeping up enough to catch FingerSplints crumbing, but you have barely contributed to the thread. You hadn't even posted today until I brought it up. It feels like you're strategically laying low and lurking.

I mean, you're correct that i've been following along with the thread and contributing where I'm engaged (or, in the splints case, where something really notable crops up). I can't really deny this. There's no agenda behind it, however. It's kind of a chore when you post stuff and people just blatantly ignore you. Like, my responses to your iso just sat there for days, no one acknowledged them until i brought them back up. There's enough content there that directly pertinent to enough people that you'd think at least someone would want to engage it.

I basically feel like I don't know how to influence the course of the thread, so why bother? that's kind of a shitty attitude i know, but i don't see what recourse i have.

[espers]

Voted timmer so i don't forget.

Here's one thing: DrumBeats and Turnip Head, what happened to your LoRab suspicions? I don't like how they sorta just dissipated.

[Turnip Head]

Voted timmer so i don't forget.

Here's one thing: DrumBeats and Turnip Head, what happened to your LoRab suspicions? I don't like how they sorta just dissipated.

I changed my mind.

[DFaraday]

Espers, why did you vote Timmer? You don't seem to have mentioned him at all before, and you've said before you have some actual suspicions.

[DFaraday]

I'm very behind as usual.

Epi, correct me if I'm wrong, but your only case on me seemed to be the notion that Splints and I were baddie teammates. Now that's been disproved, do you have anything for me to work with beyond the notion that INH and I are baddie teammates?

Talk to me about today's lynch.

I suspect all 4 baddies are still alive, so I'm going to try to figure out what combinations would make sense later today. Off the top of my head, I'd guess it's a mix of Daisy, Espers, Timmer, Bea, and Lorab. But that's without any actual analysis, I'll get to that in a bit.

So after the fingersplints lynch, does INH still feel genuine to you? It seems that way, since you didn't name him off the top of your head.

This statement sounds like you are certain there are 4 baddies. I mean, I made that argument that at least 1 is probably dead, but why do you sound so certain that there's 4?

Because there are four baddies listed on the first page...

The Scranton Strangler is not there either. Doesn't mean that role doesn't exist.

Oh, I was reading your statement backwards. Of course there could be more, but just going off of what I saw I figured, "Okay, there are four baddies listed and probably only one kill from the Strangler, so he may very well have not hit any of them."

[Scotty]

Guys, if Merideth is still in the game, espers could have had his vote forced...again...for like the 3rd time, because he didn't vote yesterday.

The worst pArt is, there's no way to prove he's been forced, because he's the only one that would be forced. But that timmer vote came literally out of nowhere.

[Scotty]

Oh, I was reading your statement backwards. Of course there could be more, but just going off of what I saw I figured, "Okay, there are four baddies listed and probably only one kill from the Strangler, so he may very well have not hit any of them."

How many baddies do you think we have in this game? We're still missing 6 roles from the list. It just seems like you used that number as a definite when it is anything but.

[Scotty]

Come on guys I don't want to just slip the day away again just to have a manic EoD.

I'm voting Spacedaisy to see if I get a rise from her. This is a vote that is still in flux. But I have no reason not to give her my vote right now. Of the low posters still in, I trust her least.

[G-Man]

I changed my mind.

[Spacedaisy]

I'm having internet issues apparently. Anyway, I have seen my name tossed around a lot today and that's cool, I can't blame you all because I have been shit this game. Vote me if you like but I can tell you it is guaranteed to be a complete waste of your time and a lynch no matter who you are. If you put my gameplay all together with what I've said recently I'm sure you can figure out why. But do what you like.

[timmer]

Trying to catch up.

[LoRab]

That sounds like the civ DF I expect. So, he's moved down my list, as well.

Daisy, on the other hand:

I'm having internet issues apparently. Anyway, I have seen my name tossed around a lot today and that's cool, I can't blame you all because I have been shit this game. Vote me if you like but I can tell you it is guaranteed to be a complete waste of your time and a lynch no matter who you are. If you put my gameplay all together with what I've said recently I'm sure you can figure out why. But do what you like.

It seems as if you're hinting at Erin. Because no other role would be a complete waste of time and a lynch no matter who you are. And Erin was lynched day 2. So...am I missing something?

And I think, if you were implying BWT was a seemer, that you'd have said something or implied something when he flipped as your role.

So, in short, I'm not sure I believe you.

Also, I feel bad suspecting Daisy in this game in particular, since The Office game back in the day (before I was LoRab, even) on LP was Daisy's first game, I believe, and we had wonderfully lovely civ BTSC with all of the Warehouse Workers (TH was there, too, of other players in this game)--until fucking evil bastard (FEB) DD frigging killed me. Ah, memories. But, really, it was a fun game, and I feel bad suspecting you in a game of the same theme--does that make any sense?

[bea]

Ugh you guys I really wanted 3 hours to mafia this afternoon. Or *any* time yesterday but now I have to swap dough for 2 stores in the next couple hours.

Df I mentioned a low level suspish of splintsy because I had one all game. Looking at you was a recent development because I had good feels for you at the beginning of the game. Given those two choices I went with the one I felt might most likely get a mafia. I was wrong and that blows.

Th and drumbeats if you are suggesting epi is who I think you are suggesting he is, I've felt that since like day 2 or 3.

I have the good feels for lorab. I have good feels for Scotty. (Dude. Idk how I'm still alive either. Day/night 4 is usually the bea witching hour)

Not sure about anyone else.

Time to start the work crap. Will poke back in when I can.