The Syndicate

Good job Nook, carrying the team to victory.

Can't believe my luck though - of all the roles to target...

Okay but seriously, how does one figure out when Juliets is scum?

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:32 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:28 pm @nutella can you tell me why you're so convinced about Tony? Or point me to where you explained it, if I've just missed it?

When he countered the idea that alex jones would necessarily be anti-town. Suggested to me that he has a town role that isn't obviously flavorfully "good" and definitely seemed like something scum would never say there in any situation.

Okay, just that then?

I get the thought process, but I don't agree it's something scum would never do. If he had been the first person to respond, yeah, but two others had just posted 'scum' and '3P'. There was an opening to say 'town', and it's an amusing and/or contrarian response that's well within Tony's wheelhouse IMO.

I need to ISO him too though, since - DDL may not believe this - I've been wrong on my D1 reads before.

[mention]nutella[/mention] can you tell me why you're so convinced about Tony? Or point me to where you explained it, if I've just missed it?

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:12 pm I should figure out how much I really think hyena and nanook are opposed, especially because I started off thinking they were specifically compatible. Idk the amount of "sure let's lynch nanook" in the thread rn is giving me some jeebies.

Considering he was nearly lynched and now there's still low-level chatter about him, yeah, I could see a townie that scum think is low-hanging fruit (in this scenario, not Nook himself as a player).

But sometimes scum are those players that sit in everyones outer PoE but are never actually lynched. At the moment Nook fits that mould better than anyone, I'd say.

Sure let's lynch Nanook.

I do need to ISO some others though, including Hyena. But I'm working and multitabling and I don't know when I'll do it.

Just for that I'm going to vote with you.

[VOTE: TonyStarkPrime] aubergine

Hyena wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:15 am Hyenas aren't dogs. :P

Holy crap you're right. I learned something today.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:33 am What do people think about the group of sig voters?

Without checking I think it was:

Juliets
Tony
Jack
MP7
Nanook



I ask because that's a big ol' pile of 'mmm...not sure' to me.

I'm probably not going to scumread or townread anyone just for their role. I get the sense this game is role madness, and since we're allowed to reveal I'm guessing the scum don't necessarily only have the 'scummy' powers and the townies have the 'townie' powers.

I don't like mechanics solving anyway. What do people think about the group of sig voters?

So anyway. I'm a TikTok user, and I need to take someone else's rule and use it or else I die from lack of attention.

Wait, did I steal your role, Jack? I thought was mimicking it. Oops.

Forgot to call it, but voted option 1. I don't have a strong opinion but you guys seem to, so let's roll with it.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:07 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:47 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:40 pm Pop quiz!

Jack is mafia. Who can tell me why?

Don't know, but from my limited meta I'm feeling he sounds a bit like Inception Jack lately.

Sorry, I'm going to be unfamiliar with all the Inception references. What alignment was Jack there, how did he play, and how long was he alive?

Jack was scum and won it in the last round. I think it was F3/F4 even? I don't remember now. I was there to the end as well as 3P.

For my part, it was my first game with him so I didn't know him at all, but I could never keep a stable read on him - I'd feel he was sounding genuine if a bit above-it-all, then I'd review and find no solid reason to TR him and the math would point to him needing to be a lone wolf, and I flip flopped like that all game.

So far here he has the same sort of tone, and I've found myself doing the same thing - I liked him at first based on tone, and now am finding little reason to keep that read because he fits into all worlds.

It's early - I'm not married to this, especially with still limited meta.

112 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:58 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:56 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:41 pm [VOTE: Nanook] aubergine
I feel disgusting doing this, lol.

This is right before the above quotes. Would be say this about a scum buddy? Idk *wifom emoji* maybe he has tmi on town!nanook instead. Maybe DDL is his partner, though that would also be a weird interaction. I just get bad feelings about Hyena from those few posts, independently of nanook's alignment. He could have known MR and Nanook would both flip town. There are various possible interpretations but mostly Hyena looks icky around that part of the phase.

Whether or not nute is right, I'd clear her for this. It's a very developed read.

Yeah, nutella is slipping back into my townleans tbh.

That might make Nook scum. Hmm.

That reminds me, I think someone - MP7? - asked me to expand on my distaste of DDL's vote on me. I'll get around to that at some point; consider this a reminder to myself. IRL things to do first.

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:51 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:17 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:47 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:46 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:44 pm Actually, Nanook, would you go for MR for self-preservation purposes?

Obviously I’ll go anyone for self prez if it comes to it lol

Okay, cool. I'll settle for MR then.
[VOTE: Master Radish] aubergine

DDL, welcome to my towncore. You're taking MR's spot.

Uh ohhhhh


Nutella no likey


Im high btw

This was a huge moment, and not just because I was high lol. This was an awful look on Hyena, and made me think I had misplaced my trust in him. I think it's possible he's teammates with Nanook and was looking for a reason to justify joining the MR train to save his teammate. Why did he suddenly decide to trust DDL of all people? It made no sense. Hyena explain yourself.

To go off this/my previous post,

Looking at my own voters, DDL's was a stale vote (and poorly justified IMO), Hyena's lacks conviction, Nook's was self-pres which is NAI...the only vote I find to come from a genuine place is Speedchuck's.

Normally I try to avoid the OMGUS look because it can make one biased, but I don't like the make-up of my wagon very much.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:04 am This post is mainly for reference (mine if no one else’s):

With just a few minutes left, MP7 & Nute created a 4/4/4 split:

MR – DDL, speed, Hyena, Nook
Nook – LC, sig, 112, nutella
Sig – juliets, TSP, Jack, MP7

(To the best of my knowledge those votes are in chronological order too.)

My townleans are spread out across the wagons. That suggests to me the wolves are too.

Tied votes are more often than not v/v, although I don't know how a 3-way tie factors into that. (I know it wasn't an actual tied vote, but Nook's final vote to self-pres was an obvious enough switch.) I'm not going to argue with anyone about that assertion about tied votes - disagree if you want, but that's an observation from many games of experience.

If Nook is scum, his scum buddies are more likely on me and Sig, as it would be quite risky to vote for a teammate in such a close vote (and most of these votes occured in the final hours, when it was clear enough that Nook was a potential wagon). I'm looking at TSP and Jack on Sig, and DDL and Hyena on me. The others had some signs of progression or, in MP7's case, was bouncing around like a rubber ball already. If anyone is a wolf on scumNook's wagon, I guess it'd be LC or 112, but that doesn't jive with my reads on them.

If Nook is town, the scum may be more evenly spread (although I won't forget that last game they piled up on me when I was mislynched, so that's not a hard and fast rule). Regardless, I haven't changed my mind on LC or 112, so that would mean Nutella would be the scum voter in this case, particularly since she didn't mind following MP7's directions to vote there. I see no reason that doesn't fit. But I'd still look at TSP/Jack and DDL/Hyena as sig was clearly a safe landing spot for a scum vote, and I am as well.


tl;dr regardless of Nook's alignment, I plan to ISO TSP, Jack, DDL, and Hyena first and foremost. The other votes felt natural or were clearly built up to.

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:40 pm Pop quiz!

Jack is mafia. Who can tell me why?

Don't know, but from my limited meta I'm feeling he sounds a bit like Inception Jack lately.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:31 am And just before that moment:

MR (4) – DDL, speed, Hyena, Nook
Nook (3) – LC, sig, 112
Sig (3) – juliets, TSP, Jack
Jack (2) - nutella, MP7

Nook is not w/w with either Nutella or MP7. If they were scumbuddies they wouldn't tie the vote - they'd just keep the status quo or find an excuse to join my wagon. There's no more than one wolf in that grouping, and maybe none. (I'm also assuming MP7 and Nute aren't wolfing together in that last minute vote switch situation.)

And just before that moment:

MR (4) – DDL, speed, Hyena, Nook
Nook (3) – LC, sig, 112
Sig (3) – juliets, TSP, Jack
Jack (2) - nutella, MP7

This post is mainly for reference (mine if no one else’s):

With just a few minutes left, MP7 & Nute created a 4/4/4 split:

MR – DDL, speed, Hyena, Nook
Nook – LC, sig, 112, nutella
Sig – juliets, TSP, Jack, MP7

(To the best of my knowledge those votes are in chronological order too.)

Ugh. Mechanics.

I don't really care about the options.

1st - if votes aren't revealed, what info does that give us?
2nd - null; not opposed to it.
3rd - in normal circumstances I'd like this best, but I will never be around EoD and if too many aren't then it's efficacy becomes questionable.


I lean towards the 3rd one.

I actually drifted off with my laptop still open. Too many games going on.

I'm just going to go back to [VOTE: TSP] aubergine and fall asleep now. Good night.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:45 pm Hey MR, what are your current reads and/or POE? Sorry if this question is answered somewhere else.

Probs town: LC, 112, Speed, maybe Jack based off recent posts, maybe Hyena?

Not lynching per activity: PC, Wilgy

Inner PoE: TSP, DDL, sig

Outer PoE: Nook, nutella, I guess Juliets (not SRing her really, just don't know what her scum game looks like), making my mind up on you still


Ask me in a few minutes and I'll probably shuffle my PoE around.

Link: jfc MP stop posting

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:33 pm It's 11:30pm and I'm normally asleep by now. My eyes are drooping and my wife is already asleep.

I'm seeing the game in a new light.

Update: turns out I'm not.

It's 11:30pm and I'm normally asleep by now. My eyes are drooping and my wife is already asleep.

I'm seeing the game in a new light.

Also,

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:36 pm What about sig?

His activity level is low, but not so low as to get noticed just yet. His posts are reads-focused, but nothing too deep or unfakeable.

On the surface, with no meta knowledge, M has looked fine enough to me. Not a fan of the AtE here, though. Easy escape route if he's scum. Does he fake emotion @someonewhoknowshim ?

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:23 pm Fuck it let’s kill nutella?

Just thinking this. Pushy case on M and possibly pocketing me.

[VOTE: Nutella] aubergine

What about sig?

I will say that I feel I'm seeing 112's town game here. I get the hesitation because of WC1, but that was seriously the best scum game from her I've ever seen, and I had her locktown in spec chat right up till 'bye'. So if the case against her is just 'she's bouncing around a lot' that's not enough.

I've only got a few moments before I fall asleep and not enough time to properly read or respond to everything.

Clearly no appetite for Tony today, so someone summarise the cases on MP7, 112, and/or Nanook. (And/or any other potential wagons.) I have a sense of each but to varying extents.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:09 pm And by 'nice' I mean what do I even do with that.

"I scumread you because you are dealing with issues that scumpeople have."

"Nah fam that ain't me."

linki: this is about my nanook response

To be fair, I think Nanook sounds normal enough tonally.

But sticking to the PC vote could be scum uncertain how to get off onto someone else.

112 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:16 pm ...like he doesn't have a stronger scumread.

FTFY.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:08 pm Language is everything.

If you are sure LC is town say that. Don't add caveats. Don't theorize about him being w/w with someone then say you are "not very serious about it". The way you did it leaves it open for you to vote LC if other people do that later.

Ah yes, the brusque lemme-tell-you-how-to-play-properly tone. A favourite of mine too.

Let me make this as clear as I can for you - I think LC is town, but I am not locking it in because, fun fact, my D1 reads have been wrong before.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:04 pm Language is important.

Yeah. I use language analysis all the time. But his is basic. He's just saying I don't sound certain enough.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:55 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:46 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:59 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:32 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:18 pm Did Nanook vote for me?

Yes, Nanook voted for you, and he still is!

Extra ugly, due to non-call in the thread.

I want to townread LC for not noticing a vote on him.

Either that or he's wolf/wolf with Nook.

"I want to townread LC".

Then do it. Townread him. Or not.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:49 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:07 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:02 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:59 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:56 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:41 pm

You just watched me play a very distinctive scumgame sir. Is it my town game you're missing?

read: compare this to my other scum game which is nothing like this one

You are being very uncharitable sir. I'll have you know my town games are nothing like this one either.

But i wanted to know what nanook thought of that

Tony and Nanook might be mafia partners. +112, that might be the scum team right there.

Dang you got us. Where’s the resign button

I wasn't very serious about the LC/Nook thing, but actually this post pings me. I feel the 'haha guess you got me' thing is such a scum thing to say here.

"I wasn't serious"

"this post actually pings me"

Then uses a superlative in the next post, to make it sound like he's sure LC is bad.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:55 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:58 pm I wonder which over-discusser of 'spew' is the wolf?

Love this thought. Another townie point for LC.



Caveat: I've read LC wrong every game I've played with him.

Caveat: I'm full of shit.

[VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine

It's okay to be unsure about someone's alignment, but go ahead and say you are unsure. This feel like playing both sides at once.

I'm TRing LC. He's my strongest TR in fact. I thought I had made that clear.


This feels like you picked someone who had a bit of shade previously (me) and nitpicked the language used to form a case.

I don't like it.

I've never seen a Speedchuck this active. I like it.

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:18 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:17 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:14 pm Like come on guys, that slot is probabilistically more likely town than not, whereas we have thread content to analyze for all other slots that may help us determine that someone has more likelihood to be scum. Not to get mathy about it but it's just all around a dumb thing to do to lynch that slot. Allow me to say it -- it's -EV.

How are you with odds, Ms Mathy?

As in: what are the odds one of PC's voters is scum?

I don't even know how many scum there are, so I couldn't tell you.

I didn't expect a literal answer. I just meant that it would be a scummy thing do to hop on a 0 poster to 'prompt' them, if they didn't know where else to safely land right now.

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:14 pm Like come on guys, that slot is probabilistically more likely town than not, whereas we have thread content to analyze for all other slots that may help us determine that someone has more likelihood to be scum. Not to get mathy about it but it's just all around a dumb thing to do to lynch that slot. Allow me to say it -- it's -EV.

How are you with odds, Ms Mathy?

As in: what are the odds one of PC's voters is scum?

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:10 pm Hi I'm nutella and I hate no-poster policy lynches

Hi everyone, my name is MR, and it's been three years since I policy lynched a no poster.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:59 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:54 pm Tony saying he thought Alex Jones would be town read as a not-scum thing to say imo, especially since it came after me and nutella said the opposite

I actually kind of like this read. Hmm.

Except the fact he did after you two also means he maybe did it to be funny/contrarian, which would negate this read.

Too WIFOMy to change my mind.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:54 pm Tony saying he thought Alex Jones would be town read as a not-scum thing to say imo, especially since it came after me and nutella said the opposite

I actually kind of like this read. Hmm.

This was from page 2. Only 112 gave it some actual thought, that I saw.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:30 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:01 am My character is so fun to roleplay as that I don’t know how. LC can die but if the point of the game is complete our personal vendettas against LC maybe we’re going down the wrong path

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:03 am Hmm, let’s spread the love
Vote
DDL

The more I think about it the more I don't like these posts. The attitudes are wrong.

[VOTE: TonyStarkPrime] aubergine

The first post seems way too serious about the early LC wagon, which was clearly a nothing wagon. It looks like he's trying to gain cred for stopping it. And he's hesitant about it too, using passive language like 'maybe we're going down the wrong path'. His second post is a forced excuse for voting someone random.

I know Tedxtr hates my #page2reads, but it was an awkward opening for Tony and nothing I've seen since has shown me the Tony I saw last game (where I correctly TRed him when no one else did). He may not post as much or make posts as long as others, but in my limited experience when he's town I can still see the townie thought process. His game so far feels like he's mimicking his style.

[mention]Hyena[/mention] didn't realise you were asking me about DDL. Not that I would've read him after his one or two posts he'd made at that time anyway.

Though even with him posting more, it's mainly nothing posts. His one reads post above ^ was fine. A bit waffley, just a few halfhearted townleans, but I kind of feel a scum would throw in at least one scumlean to look like he's doing a bit of work both ways? Similarly his vote move off of M+7 was onto the zero poster, which is an easy spot for a scum to hide, but on the other hand I liked his thought process for why he didn't want to linger on M.

So overall a very WIFOMy townlean I guess.

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:21 am Nanook, Tony, nutella, based on your own role card, what alignment do you think Alex Jones would have?

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:32 am I would suspect Notgood

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:34 am I would probably guess probably 3p for Alex Jones tbh

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:54 am town

Again liking LC's line of thinking though.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:58 pm I wonder which over-discusser of 'spew' is the wolf?

Love this thought. Another townie point for LC.



Caveat: I've read LC wrong every game I've played with him.

112 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:48 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:43 pm Spew is one of those things that Serious Mafia Players talk about as if it’s meaningful.

It isn’t.

Woah I'm going to have to get serious and maybe disagree with you here. It has its time and place.

112 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:50 pm It could go either way. One has to read between the lines. I agree with Nanook in that it's not often helpful, though- only here and there.

See [mention]NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME[/mention] it's not just me!