The Syndicate

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:17 am
Samusamu wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:13 am
Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:06 am it could have been lol
Never.
next time

For sure! Gl with that!

Also thanks nanook!

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:06 am it could have been lol

Never.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:29 am I'm not really looking for a reaction. I hope you reassess how you talk to other people on the internet in the future, but I don't really care that much. Congrats on the win.

I behave well with everyone who behaves well with me, it's something that is quite clear from the moment I don't go around looking for aggressive reactions or insulting someone and you can see from my first go-ahead reactions until now.

If someone ignores me multiple times and I see that they want to troll a game where I am putting some effort it is clear that I will not allow such a situation and that I will be hostile and imperative to that person. If that is repeated multiple times of course I will get angry, I am not an icy human or a totally rational being.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:10 am
Samusamu wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:03 am Funny fact, i skipped n1 shoot thats why i know it was a scumslip .

I know i said sig, but thats was a lie, sig would be my objetive if i used the mech right.

You can applaud me
Spoiler: show
in the head

good thing you were able to take a break from writing multiple 10 paragraph essays about how good and smart you are long enough to notice such a tiny piece of evidence.

Funny fact, i consider myself average.

Funny fact two i've never said i'm brilliant or something like that.

Funny fact three it easy to see what other do bad, but i will try to analize despite of lacking of arguments syn gave me. Why she reacted like that and what can i change.

Funny fact four submitting myself to this type of assessment of myself to force me to be more attentive is a show of humility that I do to progress

Funny fact five, I have nothing against you, stop looking for a confrontation or bad reaction on my part because you will not find it.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:06 am
Samusamu wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:03 am Funny fact, i skipped n1 shoot thats why i know it was a scumslip .

I know i said sig, but thats was a lie, sig would be my objetive if i used the mech right.

You can applaud me
Spoiler: show
in the head

Great teamwork! Just like we planned it

Yup.

And sorry for not realizing that your thoughts were town thoughts until the page before this i was more conviced of you being the last mafia, but your performance in this final phase was good, despite how bad a player I am sometimes, you convinced me to go for gs and shoot Kyle before you.

Thanks for the effort.

Also my congratulations to alison and sloonei, playing with them is always easy, mewtini also had a great performance, although my paranoya did not allow me to see further.

Cat also had some good reading, my congratulations too.

Funny fact, i skipped n1 shoot thats why i know it was a scumslip

.

I know i said sig, but thats was a lie, sig would be my objetive if i used the mech right.

You can applaud me

Spoiler: show

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:50 pm Your welcome for encouraging discussion of nightkills

Good job

Samusamu wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:50 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:48 pm this is the first time I've been lynched in 5 years
Just play more.

Well, i'm a little irascible, just sorry

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:48 pm this is the first time I've been lynched in 5 years

Just play more.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:42 pm anyone whoever pretends to be some sort of intellectual in mafia is always in the wrong. this is a silly internet game solved purely by shenanigans every time

Of course dude!!

Syn wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:39 pm Samusamu, do you think Kylemii outs himself with a faked mechanic without our fight?

Dunno, if u would lynched the poe he will be outed anyway.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:37 pm
Samusamu wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:35 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:33 pm sorry my little brother grabbed my phone what's going on how is everyone
.

Just surrender and finish this suffering.
not until you apologize to Syn

If I calmly read myself in the third person tomorrow and see that I have gone too far, I will do so privately by specifying what I have done wrong.

In any case, I don't regret anything today.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:33 pm sorry my little brother grabbed my phone what's going on how is everyone

You and u little brother play and write pretty similar dont it?

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:33 pm sorry my little brother grabbed my phone what's going on how is everyone

.

Just surrender and finish this suffering.

Spoiler: show

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:31 pm Ah haha aaha just joking guys

Well. This is clear.

[VOTE: @Kylemii ] aubergine

Syn wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:25 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:01 pm @Syn if Samu isn't mafa, who do you think it is, and why do you disagree with following Sloonei's plan??
I exist in multitudes

If Samusamu isn't a woof, then Sloonei's POE is kinda proven right simply by virtue of limited choices available

But I think Samusamu outed themselves, so Sloonei's POE no longer concerns me. If the condition for others to have a gander at Samusamu is a GS chop, then that is acceptable, since this is not LYLO.

Nonono, If you are going to prove that I am a wolf then you will totally ruin the numbers that we handle in the P.O.E and it is no longer a 100% effective victory.

You are basically throwing away the game for a totally irrational decision.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:27 pm I should clarify that n2 was a night I missed sending my shit in, so samu was a selection made by higher forces than me

Eh?

This is scumslip?

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:24 pm
Samusamu wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:22 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:03 pm You don't really have to make an argument for me being mafia Samu. If we're wrong on chopping GS today, I've been advocating for my shooting tonight. I know I'm not mafia, but I shouldn't be alive in LYLO.
I support gs lynch and shooting kyle if u have put your mind in that statement.
Why not me?

Cause kyle clearly didnt read the game and i have been an avocado and i have been in the poe list being town of a town strat to win the game and i had the same thoughts and said something pretty similar to that.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:03 pm You don't really have to make an argument for me being mafia Samu. If we're wrong on chopping GS today, I've been advocating for my shooting tonight. I know I'm not mafia, but I shouldn't be alive in LYLO.

I support gs lynch and shooting kyle if u have put your mind in that statement.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:06 pm
Samusamu wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:03 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:58 pm
Samusamu wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:55 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:49 pm Samu, why should I be concerned about you and Syn bashing heads right now? And why does my not weighing in make me auto-scum?
Because both I and syn are clearly town, because syn, while it thinks it has discovered gunpowder, actually goes against the wall of defeat head on and any town that has read the game should stop and redirect syn to solve the game in the easiest optimal and safe way.
Exactly, I do think you're both town, so I'm unconcerned by your fight. I just want to narrow the poe.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:01 pm @Syn if Samu isn't mafa, who do you think it is, and why do you disagree with following Sloonei's plan??
Cause these questions you just make, are continue being ignored or trolling by syn.
Please try not to antagonize him too much. I literally just asked this question.

You have literally made them now.

But I've been searching for hours for syn's thought or some answer that resembles it.

The only argument she has outlined is that I've given myself the coal two days in a row, which is totally illogical with my actions and the pressure I've put on Made and Sig. It doesn't make sense that I being a mafia and wanting to sell out to my peers won't use my vote to demonstrate and win more towncredits just as it doesn't make sense for me to interact with the two scums if I'm the third scum

But that argument hides a totally self-destructive future where there's an f4 with me being coaled again, syn, wilgy and one of you/gs/kyle where syn will say that I've been coaled again to play with his mind (when it's wifom) and voting for me with the other mafia and making us lose the game ridiculously.

And since I'm not going to let that ridiculous situation come to pass I want to nip that possibility in the bud.

And if you are a people you should know that the core wilgy/syn/samu is untouchable this game and so you should let them know.

Same for kyle.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:58 pm
Samusamu wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:55 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:49 pm Samu, why should I be concerned about you and Syn bashing heads right now? And why does my not weighing in make me auto-scum?
Because both I and syn are clearly town, because syn, while it thinks it has discovered gunpowder, actually goes against the wall of defeat head on and any town that has read the game should stop and redirect syn to solve the game in the easiest optimal and safe way.
Exactly, I do think you're both town, so I'm unconcerned by your fight. I just want to narrow the poe.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:01 pm @Syn if Samu isn't mafa, who do you think it is, and why do you disagree with following Sloonei's plan??

Cause these questions you just make, are continue being ignored or trolling by syn.

Syn wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:56 pm
Samusamu wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:55 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:49 pm Samu, why should I be concerned about you and Syn bashing heads right now? And why does my not weighing in make me auto-scum?
Because both I and syn are clearly town, because syn, while it thinks it has discovered gunpowder, actually goes against the wall of defeat head on and any town that has read the game should stop and redirect syn to solve the game in the easiest optimal and safe way.
Will you hold my hand before I cross the road too?

I put my hand on firing defending you and lynching made d2.

I will do the neccesary to win a game than has been solved since d2, and that starts by redirecting your game and taking you by the hand to the same hell if necessary.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:49 pm Samu, why should I be concerned about you and Syn bashing heads right now? And why does my not weighing in make me auto-scum?

Because both I and syn are clearly town, because syn, while it thinks it has discovered gunpowder, actually goes against the wall of defeat head on and any town that has read the game should stop and redirect syn to solve the game in the easiest optimal and safe way.

Syn wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:38 pm
Samusamu wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:33 pm
Syn wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:24 pm
Samusamu wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:21 pm
Samusamu wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:15 pm
Syn wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:03 pm Well, I certainly won't stop you from doing that if that's truly your wish. Seems counterproductive, but you do you.

There are people who are ignorant from the depths of their being, but there are also people who from the depths of evil manifest an equally or more reprehensible ignorance of truth. I am still deciding what kind of person you are, but I am sure that I will always remember this mockery

Still waiting for an argument of me being wolf in this game. Still insulting me, still trolling still everything.

Stop laughing on me im really angry.
*
You are making incredible character judgements against me. It's amazing, really.
You don't prove anything less, I'm still waiting for reasons or motives why you think I'm a wolf.

You have been and are blatantly disrespectful to the players throughout the game and yet above all you pretend to troll the game.

What judgments should I make of you, tell me? I had this debate in my community some time ago and it was agreed that it was preferable to have fewer players and fewer games as long as they were of quality and there were no players who with their actions so blatantly insulted the essence of this game and therefore spoiled the dynamics of it.

It seems to me that no one has ever stopped to tell you this to your face, but it's about time you realized your actions.

I tolerate that you simply don't show up or ignore players when asked and I have tolerated that and managed to read town to you during the game despite all the obstacles you have put in the way.

But I cannot tolerate that at a time like this you want to insult me to my face and think that I cannot reproach you for your attitude.
I haven't ignored you. I have said no to you. It is not my problem you can't accept that.

I'm comfortable with my play style and my personality. You can say whatever you like to my face; indeed, you have! You've expressed that I'm stupid, that I lack common sense, that I'm apparently ignorant born of evil (lmao), a troll, and yada yada yada. It's all very nice. That the only case you'll accept against you is one that matches you wall-for-wall is cool, but not something I'm going to spend my time doing... and I have been explicitly clear about that unwillingness since D1. I have offered the information that I'm willing to invest in providing. Whether others follow me or not is immaterial, and your hostility changes nothing about this.

I haven't even insulted you. I voted you and said that I think you're outed. If that's a grievous, unforgivable sin against you, what on earth is the absolute vile stuff you're spewing at me? C'mon, dude. I'm not engaging with you anymore on this or anything related to personality. If you'd like to talk about my case, as much as it may disappoint your standards, cool, but that's gonna be it for me.

I asked you several questions during the game that you never deigned to answer.

I've been reading and looking for mobsters while you were afk or wasting time going against the tide.

You are clearly insulting the effort I have made and am making in this game since the moment you do not answer, do not give arguments or refuse to read the same calling a series of elements selected to make you think nothing.

I've said that what you do or what you say is stupid because of everything I've pointed out and that such continued stupidity makes me wonder if there is evil in you or simply ignorance.

I'm outed? Outed what? It is so frustrating and insulting that after all this futile exchange you still don't say why and that you want to play offended when I keep asking you the same question, that I am really angry.

Of course you are comfortable with your game, in ignorance lies true happiness. But that doesn't take away from the fact that it's a disgusting game that makes it difficult for anyone who tries to play it seriously and that you should do something about it because eventually you'll become a handicap for whatever side you're on.

There are no things I hate more than ignorance and unjustified vagueness when there are people working hard in the middle. And you combine the two. No good player will say they are comfortable with their game, they will always want to go or see further, your attitude is truly incomprehensible in my eyes.

Syn wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:22 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:21 pm
Syn wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:34 pm
Syn wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:34 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:29 pm But you are partially right Syn, we should plan for the scenario where the POE was wrong.

@Syn @Samusamu @Grand Scheme @DrWilgy @Kylemii

I want all of your gift targets from this game. Please list them out from every night. If you forgot to submit and it was randomized, please find out what that random target was.
N1: Samusamu
N2: Marmot
N3: Marmot
also this is equivalent to PR baiting lol if you're not a wolf, Marmot, you're helping them by doing this
Explain.

My purpose of this is to try to get more specifics and narrow down who did the gifting each night. Mafia already knows this, since they're the one who picks the target each night. How does this discussion hurt town?
The wolf is obviously going to give the gift to someone who is unlikely to shoot them based on past record

Ah btw, at this point that is wifom.

You still think that u can go above other minds player.

Btw2: marmot not weighting is clearly the wolf remaing.

He by his speaking is clever enough to see this situation and if town stopping your from doing whatever you are trying to do.

Syn wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:24 pm
Samusamu wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:21 pm
Samusamu wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:15 pm
Syn wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:03 pm Well, I certainly won't stop you from doing that if that's truly your wish. Seems counterproductive, but you do you.

There are people who are ignorant from the depths of their being, but there are also people who from the depths of evil manifest an equally or more reprehensible ignorance of truth. I am still deciding what kind of person you are, but I am sure that I will always remember this mockery

Still waiting for an argument of me being wolf in this game. Still insulting me, still trolling still everything.

Stop laughing on me im really angry.
*
You are making incredible character judgements against me. It's amazing, really.

You don't prove anything less, I'm still waiting for reasons or motives why you think I'm a wolf.

You have been and are blatantly disrespectful to the players throughout the game and yet above all you pretend to troll the game.

What judgments should I make of you, tell me? I had this debate in my community some time ago and it was agreed that it was preferable to have fewer players and fewer games as long as they were of quality and there were no players who with their actions so blatantly insulted the essence of this game and therefore spoiled the dynamics of it.

It seems to me that no one has ever stopped to tell you this to your face, but it's about time you realized your actions.

I tolerate that you simply don't show up or ignore players when asked and I have tolerated that and managed to read town to you during the game despite all the obstacles you have put in the way.

But I cannot tolerate that at a time like this you want to insult me to my face and think that I cannot reproach you for your attitude.

Samusamu wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:15 pm
Syn wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:03 pm Well, I certainly won't stop you from doing that if that's truly your wish. Seems counterproductive, but you do you.

There are people who are ignorant from the depths of their being, but there are also people who from the depths of evil manifest an equally or more reprehensible ignorance of truth. I am still deciding what kind of person you are, but I am sure that I will always remember this mockery

Still waiting for an argument of me being wolf in this game. Still insulting me, still trolling still everything.

Stop laughing on me im really angry.

*

Syn wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:13 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:11 pm @Syn @Samusamu why not just work the poe by hammer? We can speed this game up.

Yeet GS and see the results. I just want my cuddles.
Sure, I'll hammer if Samu switches.

Switch what?

Syn wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:03 pm Well, I certainly won't stop you from doing that if that's truly your wish. Seems counterproductive, but you do you.

Hai xente que é ignorante dende o máis recóndito do seu ser, e tamén hai xente que dende a maldade, manifesta unha ignorancia pola verdade totalmente condenable, inda estou a decidir qué tipo de persoa eres, pero sexa cal sexa voume lembrar desta burla para sempre.

Still waiting for an argument of me being wolf in this game. Still insulting me, still trolling still everything.

Stop laughing on me im really angry.

I'm going to stop posting because from the insult I feel I'm going to start insulting directly and it's something I don't want and I promised long ago to stop doing, if I see that I'll get to that point before that happens I'll ask for relief.

I beg the rest of the town to use their heads and take a stand on this.

Spoiler: show

Syn wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:54 pm
Samusamu wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:51 pm

If there is one thing I can't stand in this world it is stupidity, do you think I am so foolish as to take the vote away from myself and become hostile to you when the game and all the management are in favour of lynching the poet and you can vote for me and I don't have a vote in return?

Do you really think I am that stupid?

If I'm like that with you it's because I precessively want to prevent this from happening and I'm taking over from Slooney to finish the game and not let you or Wilgy spoil it with absurd ideas.
You just said everyone's agreed on Sloonei's POE, so this "were I a wolf" defense does not logically parse. I can break from Sloonei's master plan and you'll be safe because everyone else is still on board. You're only concerned because I saw through the act.

No, im' clearly angry for that action of yours if i were a wolf i've never put myself to that point i would be laughing in a corner meanwhile your vote goes nowhere.

I being like this cause i wanna finish this game this day/night phase cause i have to begin tomorrow another one.

I prefer modkilling myself than letting you spoil the game.

Surely I can't stand stupidity or being considered stupid, for me it's insulting.

This conversation is insulting.

You still don't point out why I'm the last wolf even though I taught you where the arguments are to go for the last wolf, you keep going down the road of thoughtlessness and I don't understand how you don't feel ashamed of yourself for not even stopping to read the game or pointing out why you think what you think.

The only thing that fosters the victory of the wolves here is the behaviour you manifest in this game.

Syn wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:46 pm
Samusamu wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:38 pm Now syn, if you want to vote for me and think I'm mafia come and tell me why, disprove some of the above, the reasons why others read me town or something of my game.

Say that part of my agenda, my posts or my intentions are mafia.

But to come and make a trolling/yolo vote when you promised to follow the Poe of Sloonei, when you've been afk more than half a game and making it difficult to read it is to insult me to my face, of course I'm hostile to this. I don't let this kind of situation happen in the forum where I come from or anywhere else, for me it's fine if you don't take the game seriously but to put on the silver paper hat and say that I have unmasked myself for reproaching you for not following the plan that had been agreed and the only logical one if the game is read is insulting.

Of course I have the coal both yesterday and today, because I am the strongest town reading left, because I have followed and supported very clearly the lynchings of Sig and Made and because my vote would be 100% sure in the right direction of lynching the Poe.

I am not going to give an inch to these statements, if you have a bit of shame you will simply do what you promised and you will not get in the way of the game.
I did exactly what I promised, I "shot" the other person in Sloonei's POE. Good try lying and hiding it behind indignant AtE, but I'm not buying it, and I'm also unresponsive to the rhetoric you're bringing here. I realize as the final wolf you need to try anything you can to turn the game around, but a little more civility would go a long way in ensuring everyone's having a good time.

My vote stays. The rest are free to choose as they will. From my perspective you've outed yourself, and I have no intention on having a battle of the walls to try and convince the rest.

If there is one thing I can't stand in this world it is stupidity, do you think I am so foolish as to take the vote away from myself and become hostile to you when the game and all the management are in favour of lynching the poet and you can vote for me and I don't have a vote in return?

Do you really think I am that stupid?

If I'm like that with you it's because I precessively want to prevent this from happening and I'm taking over from Slooney to finish the game and not let you or Wilgy spoil it with absurd ideas.

Off Topic

Syn wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:33 pm cool wall but unconvincing

"I am town because people who are conveniently dead thought I was town"

neat, what about the people still alive

"neat, what about the people still alive"

Wtf i have been townreaded by all the cleared town in the game and the rest of the players here have been afking.

I'm the last who have being reading and pushing the game to be solve of the players who are alive.

What a stupid sentence you are doing.

Syn wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:35 pm
Syn wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:33 pm cool wall but unconvincing

"I am town because people who are conveniently dead thought I was town"

neat, what about the people still alive
distancing and bussing is apparently not a thing in samu's world

"I pushed for a wolf, surely this means I am town?"

well, no, actually

Not only pushing for a wolf, i put a lot of the reads from interactions that sloonei did.

I put interaction with the wolves that u have to.refute.

I explain why the time when i support and do my pushes is not what a wolf will do, no one if not two times.

STOP insulting me, tell me reasons and thoughts why i'm scum, cause i'm thinking its only tin foil theories u had without read the game meanwhile thinking u are solving the game and that is putting me freaking angry i dont tolerate players who arent seriousness doing a case.

Now syn, if you want to vote for me and think I'm mafia come and tell me why, disprove some of the above, the reasons why others read me town or something of my game.

Say that part of my agenda, my posts or my intentions are mafia.

But to come and make a trolling/yolo vote when you promised to follow the Poe of Sloonei, when you've been afk more than half a game and making it difficult to read it is to insult me to my face, of course I'm hostile to this. I don't let this kind of situation happen in the forum where I come from or anywhere else, for me it's fine if you don't take the game seriously but to put on the silver paper hat and say that I have unmasked myself for reproaching you for not following the plan that had been agreed and the only logical one if the game is read is insulting.

Of course I have the coal both yesterday and today, because I am the strongest town reading left, because I have followed and supported very clearly the lynchings of Sig and Made and because my vote would be 100% sure in the right direction of lynching the Poe.

I am not going to give an inch to these statements, if you have a bit of shame you will simply do what you promised and you will not get in the way of the game.

Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:43 am
sig wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:03 am I guess everyone is to busy adulting or something.

But. I do have a few ideas regarding gifts, so from the rules it sounds like mafia give them out, but we don't know who got it.. This is gonna further muddy the waters paired with coal.

I don't think hero shooting is necessarily the best way to approach it until mid game, before mid game and once we get closer to end game it would probably make the most sense if everyone targeted the same person. That would insure town has more control over the game and we're not just hitting random people.

I'd also say for n1 we just target people who haven't shown up yet. I'm never really a fan of lynching non posters I think its a good way for mafia to blend and not have responsibility, but given that these are kills i think it may make the most sense to trim the fat early
Ññññ.

Too early to talk about lynching non poster.

I was thinking about the hero shooting thing.

I conclude that i dont care meanwhile that person can explain the shot and that explanation sound legit to me in day 1/2.

Saying hey i have a shot lets talk to decide who should we shot its a good and easy way for deepwolfing.

This post sounds to me like preparing the ground for the scenario where a scum is given the shot and can easily spend half a day just talking about the shot and not giving an opinion.

You post like a mafia .

For this post and the nexts interactions that i support and continue by myself, we had lynched made and sig. Not scum agenda.

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:45 am Sloonei, do you agree on disagree on the following points:

1) Samusamu is obvious town.
2) Sig would see that Samusamu is obvious town if he was town.

Alison townread.

sig wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:53 am
Samusamu wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:26 am
sig wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:15 am I've got a tin foil theory brewing that wilgy, cat, and then Allison/syn are mafia with a tin foiled version of that theory saying instead of them its samu.
Instead four persons i'm the mafia? Only i?
I mean you'd replace one of them.

Alison, Kyle, syn, wilgy, or cat.

Followed by samu being my like extra strong tin foil.

For this interaction i think all the names here are town, thats why marmot and gs are the poe

sig wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:27 pm Quick read list atm in no order

Town
Sloonie
Lc
Mew

Town lean
Made
Samu
Syn

Null
Falcon

Scum lean
Kyle
Wilgy
Cat

Scum
Alison

sig wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:27 pm Wilgy, Kyle and syn I'm having massive problems reading

This two post tell me that prob that names are town.

Samusamu wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:50 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:46 pm Just throwing this out here we have enough time to cfd onto Alison.
Sorry but no. I wont allow that kind of lynch with no reasons and less in the last 15 minutes.

This is me not supporting a alison lynch.

Samusamu wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:56 pm
mewtini wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:52 pm ok NOW i have isod cat

and i don't want to lynch there lol. anyone got an 11th hour counterwagon they wanna jump on with me, that preferably isn't wilgy (on tone i'd rather kill wilgy than cat, but the coal n0 makes me want to just leave him alone,)
I wanna lynch sig right now.

And this is me, moments after not letting an alison lynch, trying to lynch sig. (Btw you vote in the last second if you werent trolling and talk to me we could prob lynch sig d1)

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:03 pm Current reads

Town:
Marmot
Sig
Samusamu
Sloonei
Grand Scheme

Middling:
Mewtini
Syn
Made

Scum:
Kylemii
DrWilgy

Marmot agenda trying to lynch kyle or wilgy similar with the agenda of sig and mas.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:56 pm I did not like Made's initial progression on Samu:
Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:30 pm
Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:18 pm
Made wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:05 pm
Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:02 pm [big post]
this is word salady af. I don't see how this kind of staging is helps us when it hasn't happened, it just will create more confusion when/if it does, which serves scum
Wow!

I'm saying why i read someone scum, and finishing that thought, that is very confuse, haha no.
You just used the word prototypical. This is some syergistic corporate megalamanic viscerlony baloney my friend

get rid of the words and you get "yeah, uhhh no me? no u!! anyways wifom anyone?"
I informed him that a language barrier was standing between samu and the rest of us. Made acknowledged this fact but explicitly gave it no weight in his read:

Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:37 pm Word, respect. keeping my sus, but tossing the knife. I don't know what the word prototypical means, and big words threaten me general, so that much might just be on me
I think this makes his samu suspicion appear very flimsy. "Big words scary" amounts to nothing at all, and is not quite the same as the initial "word salad" accusation. The goalposts have been moved.

Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:44 pm
Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:52 pm
Made wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:30 pm You just used the word prototypical. This is some syergistic corporate megalamanic viscerlony baloney my friend

get rid of the words and you get "yeah, uhhh no me? no u!! anyways wifom anyone?"
I dont understand this post.
I was saying that I thought your post was wordy, and that it was wordy to hide your straight forward point that could make things more confusing later on.. Now that I know about the language gap, I still think that your take is sus, but i'm putting less weight into word choice

dropping this wifom mess, and dropping a vote on [VOTE: samusamu] aubergine
The goalposts are moved again. We started out with "word salad." Then it became "big words scary." Now he throws out the linguistic aspect of it entirely to say "your take is sus." Made has offered no opinion on any particular takes of samu's other than to generalize that his posts are confusing. When he was made aware of the language gap, he nodded at it as if it made a difference in his read, but instead of actually applying the new information and adjusting accordingly, Made just slid around it and voiced a new and unrelated reason to suspect Samu in stride. This is a Bad Look.

Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:27 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:16 pm
Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:46 pm
Samusamu wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:20 am Ahh wait, i can change my vote now.

[VOTE: Cat] aubergine

Dont like fluff posters
What do you think about sloonei?
What do you think about sloonei?
Hekkatown
Moving along, I do not know what the point of Made asking Samu for a read on me here was. I had previously told Made to his face that I suspected him in response to a direct question, but he did not acknowledge me at all. Instead, he asked samu for a read on me several hours later. I wanted him to answer his own question, and he slapped a town read on me, which is interesting because the extent of our interaction in the game prior to this was a generic prod question from Made, a juicy answer from Sloonei, and zero follow-up from Made.

I thought Made's responses to my interrogation afterward felt a bit flat, like he was trying to project confidence against my pressure:
Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:32 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:27 pm
Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:27 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:16 pm What do you think about sloonei?
Hekkatown
Why?
I like the cut of ya jib, not really see an angle for a bad paprika generally, and ur defense of samu enough sense to be genuine

Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:42 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:34 pm I think you are mafia. Thoughts?
Kinda don’t believe you, so will see where that goes, but are entitled to your onion mr. paprika. I’m town, so
Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:47 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:43 pm Why would I lie if I'm town?
reaction gauging imo, kinda “scumy” in a literal sense but it has utility, and I don’t have reason distrust that yet

Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:37 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:02 pm What makes you think my suspicion of you is “reaction gauging”, @Made?
I “don’t” but it feels more likely that ur testing my loyalty to the civvie cause than any baddie angles I can think of anyways.

I am loyal to the court, my friend.

(Plus you just said you’re looking for [Something] so...)

I have trouble understanding the progression of these thoughts. Made says that he believes I am simply testing him for reactions, which means my suspicion is false, which is "scummy but has utility", but then he distinctly doesn't think I'm reaction testing, but that I'm "testing his loyalty" (???). None of this computes over here, and each response feels like it's meant more to appease me than to actually progress the dialogue to a place of understanding. Sometimes (not all the time) when I start digging deep into somebody like this, our back-and-forth will take the shape of an organic dialogue, and ideas will grow/expand out of it, and that's usually a sign of a good townie.
With Made, I ask a question and his answers are short, definitive, closed off. They go nowhere. They feel like obstacles, and he doesn't want there to be any more follow-up questions.

SLOONEI SUMMARIZE INTERACTIONS WITH MADE, INCLUDES ME AND MY INTERACTIONS NOT SAME AGENDA.

Samusamu wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:10 pm
Made wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:10 pm
~Reading Rainbow~
civvie

Made is town

mew reads like a civvie whose out of element but doesn't force the "hey guise i don't know what's going on!?". Her end of day looks genuine

The Marmot recap pretty much follows my thinking beat for beat. wifom on the coal pt2 feels like a trap worth avoiding for now

Grand Scheme is a green utilitarian, and his rhymes are as fun as baseball is american.

Kyle doesn't feel like he's really pushing things in any direction. His post felt fluffy in thread on first read, but his iso doesn't. plus i love kyle <3

ehhhhh

sig's mechanic talk was kinda irrelevant, but in a civvie way. His alison vote looked weird, but im vibing with him today

samu looked worst for not moving things yesterday, but i like his pushes today

bad

sloonei insist that samu is obv town because and then argues i'm bad because and then argues mewtini is bad because all of it feels forced

syn's end of day looks AWFUL. if wilgy is bad then syn is the teammate.

wilgy's talk looked bad yesterday, EOD vote around him look bad, silence today looks bad. iunnlikeem

knowing [VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine's alignment feels like it gives us the most information

thoughts?
Wtf dude? U talk like u know that cat was a bad lynch, i didnt see u defending him or convincing me/others to do other thing with enough reasons.

Me against made at the beggining of the day meanwhile rereading and realizing of made scumness

Samusamu wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:13 pm
Made wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:10 pm
~Reading Rainbow~
civvie

Made is town

mew reads like a civvie whose out of element but doesn't force the "hey guise i don't know what's going on!?". Her end of day looks genuine

The Marmot recap pretty much follows my thinking beat for beat. wifom on the coal pt2 feels like a trap worth avoiding for now

Grand Scheme is a green utilitarian, and his rhymes are as fun as baseball is american.

Kyle doesn't feel like he's really pushing things in any direction. His post felt fluffy in thread on first read, but his iso doesn't. plus i love kyle <3

ehhhhh

sig's mechanic talk was kinda irrelevant, but in a civvie way. His alison vote looked weird, but im vibing with him today

samu looked worst for not moving things yesterday, but i like his pushes today

bad

sloonei insist that samu is obv town because and then argues i'm bad because and then argues mewtini is bad because all of it feels forced

syn's end of day looks AWFUL. if wilgy is bad then syn is the teammate.

wilgy's talk looked bad yesterday, EOD vote around him look bad, silence today looks bad. iunnlikeem

knowing [VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine's alignment feels like it gives us the most information

thoughts?
Also, the syn and wilgy parts are tu vagues for being your principal scum candidates.

Can u elaborate more or you cant

@Syn the 3vs3 i insist

More against made when not a solid push were on made. I support and help sloonei with that push from the beggining, it will be stupid if i were mafia and support that push in that form from the beggining.

Samusamu wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:52 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:33 pm Kyle/mewtini, I'm having the hardest time reading you two. Weigh in on sig vs samu, please.

I'm not a fan of Made suspecting Samu. I think Samu is pretty obviously town and it's very easy to see that.

Samu
GS
Syn
Wilgy
[everyone else]
Made
Sig

I'm off now.
I'm having problems reading wilgy and gs. For me they are nai, so lets be sheepped and and say they are town for the moment.

Also dont like Made, and i have been townreading sig for a while.

So lets see if alison is right with made.

[VOTE: Made] aubergine

Samusamu wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:54 am Also, this are the reads from made d1:

made
sig
syn
kyle
sloonei

GS
mew
cat

alison
wilgy
samu

Samusamu wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:02 am
Samusamu wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:54 am Also, this are the reads from made d1:

made
sig
syn
kyle
sloonei

GS
mew
cat

alison
wilgy
samu
I can see slooney and sig a little.

Gs, syn, wilgy and kyle were town for alison, i will consider that she can be 3/4 right in that town reads (or 1/4 of being mafia), and for that scumreads she has to be atleast 1/2 right.

Then i know this.

may it please the court:

made (1/2)
sig (1/2)
syn (1/4)
kyle (1/4)
sloonei

GS (1/4)
mew
cat (town)

alison (town)
wilgy (1/4)
samu (town)

Samusamu wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:05 am
Samusamu wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:02 am
Samusamu wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:54 am Also, this are the reads from made d1:

made
sig
syn
kyle
sloonei

GS
mew
cat

alison
wilgy
samu
I can see slooney and sig a little.

Gs, syn, wilgy and kyle were town for alison, i will consider that she can be 3/4 right in that town reads (or 1/4 of being mafia), and for that scumreads she has to be atleast 1/2 right.

Then i know this.

may it please the court:

made (1/2)
sig (1/2)
syn (1/4)
kyle (1/4)
sloonei

GS (1/4)
mew
cat (town)

alison (town)
wilgy (1/4)
samu (town)
And from my point of view without alison reads.

may it please the court:

made (scum vibes)
sig (town lean)
syn (scum lean)
kyle (nai)
sloonei (town for me)

GS (nai)
mew (townlean
cat (town confirmed)

alison (town confirmed)
wilgy (nai)
samu (town)

Samusamu wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:18 am Well i confirm my push on made today, also i'm thinking who should i shoot.

Me confirming my push on made with some of my thoughts and reads.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:57 pm Made continues to be Mafia - Day 2 Edition:

I provided a big and fairly comprehensive argument for Made As Mafia yesterday afternoon. I am an experienced player. I have written a lot of cases in my mafia life. I know when I feel like they make sense, or at least when they're viable and easy to follow. This one on Made felt very self-evident. I talked about what he did and why his actions made me feel the way that I did. There was nothing, I felt, difficult or opaque about it. Everything you need to know about my read on Made is right there on the surface of my words.

Then when Made returned to the thread, this was his impassioned response:
Made wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:07 pm Mr. Sloonei, what's ur take on Syn?
Made wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:14 pm Ms. Syn same question but for sloonei.

Why does my read on Syn matter here? Why does Syn's read on me matter? The latter thought is what prompted me to point out that I am universalliy town-read (sans Made). Made asking Syn for a read on the player everybody has decided to read as town felt hollow. Made asking Syn for a readon the player everybody has decided to read as town when said player has just posted a big comprehensive case explaining why he reads Made as mafia, and Made has not touched it with a thirty-nine and a half foot pole, looks weak and almost impossible from an honest civilian mindset.

But then we get to Made's reads list, which has me and Syn both at the bottom. So maybe he feels there is a connection between us. His syn suspicion seems to hinge on wilgy being bad. I think the Wilgy suspicion is empty. I am not saying I read Wilgy's posts as town definitively. But I definitely don't read them as suspicious. I read them as posts coming from DrWilgy, and I challenge anyone here to make an argument for why those posts are bad. I'm willing to listen, but there is nothing out of the ordinary about this game's version of Wilgy, and Wilgy is everyone's favorite mischop bait. It's almost transparently bad.

Let's get tot he reasons Made lists for scum reading each of us:
"wilgy's talk looked bad yesterday, EOD vote around him look bad, silence today looks bad. iunnlikeem"
What "talk" looked bad? What votes looked bad and why? Why is his silence bad? Why can't his absence simply be absence? This is not the least bit uncommon for DrWilgy. So why is any of it bad?

"syn's end of day looks AWFUL. if wilgy is bad then syn is the teammate."
Why did Syn's end of day look AWFUL? Evidently because he switched a joke vote from Wilgy onto Sig at the last moment, which is apparently what the mafia team would want because it would create a tie... when we already had a civilian being chopped in cat. And no mafia member in their right mind would go out of their way to cast such a brazen and reckless vote at the last minute when people are on high alert about tie-creation. Why on all of Santa's wonderful Earth would a Mafia Syn leap to cast a vote on Town Sig to tie him up with Town Cat in the poll at the last second? No. That makes no sense. That is not an argument.

"sloonei insist that samu is obv town because and then argues i'm bad because and then argues mewtini is bad because all of it feels forced"
Okay, remember up above when Made's full arguments against Wilgy and Syn were "looked bad" and "looks AWFUL"? It's not even like those are summaries of previous reads he'd stated. If you search his ISO for mentions of either of those two, he never elaborates beyond similar observations of frank "badness".
I bring all of this up because I would like to direct your attention, dear reader, to Made's summary of my own cases against him and Mewtini. Made summarizes each of them via a confused2 emoji. That is to say, Made alleges that my cases against him and Mewtini are either insubstantial or make no sense. I remind you that the entirety of his top two cases are "looks bad" and "looks awful."
I direct your attention, once again, to my cases: Made & Mewtini.
Those are definitely not insubstantial. If they make no sense, I have not had anyone engage with me on them yet to determine what is lacking. I feel as though they both make very clear sense. That is not to say they're both correct. But they should definitely be readable. Made denies that they are and tosses a blanket of suspicion on me in the process. If that is a genuine read, I'm flabbergasted! Vexed! Dumbfounded!
I pressed him to expound on his stances a bit more and he, once again, failed to do so in a satisfying manner. This is the most we got:
Made wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:22 pm nah, i saw them, they just don't really make sense to me. my issue with samu was the delivery, yes, but also the core message that sounded like a "no you, but also let's distract thread!". and mew showing up 13 minutes before deadline, and then throwing a new name in the mix i feel like would of been scummy af. reads like a team player imo
He touches briefly on one point (RE: samu) from his own case, and just hand waves at the entire case against Mewtini. The specific reference to "13 minutes" even suggests to me that the case resonated with Made, or else he wouldn't be as likely to specify the exact right number that I used in my analysis. I do not know if this points to Made + Mewtini as teammates (for what it's worth, Made lists mew as his top townread in his reads list), or if it's just Made working extra hard to discredit me. But I simply do not believe Made when he says that my arguments do not make sense to him.

[VOTE: made] aubergine

Sloonei second try of pushing made because only i see the evidence and read enough to see the scumness from made.

Samusamu wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:18 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:14 pm Perhaps the thread is stagnant because we are going in the right direction but the mafia team is hoping we don't make any progress.
I cant answer you, but i read u and noddle.

Me saying that i was busy, but i support that push again cause i realize that it was good.

Samusamu wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:33 pm
sig wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:29 pm I'm gonna carve out like 20 minutes do a quick ISO of Made instead of just reading through the argument, then pop back in again.

I'm assuming there's no way @Samusamu @Sloonei would switch to Syn today?
No

Made acknowledging that the push were from sloonei and i and me confirming that i dont want to lynch syn. More when i confirm made scumness

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:00 pm Interesting, I was coaled Night 1 and Alison dies (who I targeted)

Samu was coaled Night 2 and mew dies (who he targeted)

I wonder if mafia are coaling and gifting the same player every time.

Samusamu wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:26 pm In what world a mafia slooney will do that post against made, He was able to make literally half the effort in them to convey his idea and yet he made an effort to convey his readings so that he decided to go to Made once and for all.

Samusamu wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:35 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:27 pm Also I thought coal was permanent
No, thoughts on marmot?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:43 pm
Samusamu wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:35 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:27 pm Also I thought coal was permanent
No, thoughts on marmot?
Town, but I haven’t looked into made’s interactions beyond sig and mewtini yet.

Samusamu wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:20 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:43 pm
Samusamu wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:35 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:27 pm Also I thought coal was permanent
No, thoughts on marmot?
Town, but I haven’t looked into made’s interactions beyond sig and mewtini yet.
Well, hoping to read why town.

Me having isoed marmots agenda and speaking with slooney to check if he see the same.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:28 am Made ISO

Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:20 pm
Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:33 am
cat wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:22 am
Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 5:17 am I just wake up, coal on wilgy is wifom at the moment.

Changemymind.jpg

But it is not wifom If we want to look at the mental profile of the mafia, it is more interesting to take that into account.
Probably need to lynch a few of them first. I personally would coal my own buddy D1 but i tend to be a little insane so i don't expect a lot others to do it.
Think of it this way, you think it's safest to put it in a partner on d1.

The metagame causes you to think about who is more likely to put a partner or who is more likely to put a town.

You, who are human and have an ego, will want to be above your goal or not and will do the opposite of what you are expected to do or not. In the end your defence against such an accusation is as easy as saying, hey, that I wouldn't have done this, it is very obvious to me, or saying, hey, that this is the opposite of what I would do, it is not my "metagame".

That's why it's wifom.

As I pointed out before, the interesting thing about this fact comes now by reading the game and seeing how it develops.

Nah okay wait. If santa's elfs from hell don't get to kill people and only get to kill people through their one shot, then optimal play is to give your teammates the shot asap. Obv that's wifom, but that doesn't change the benefit you get from that. the more we talk about it thread, the more it becomes wifom, which is why I don't think this conversation serves town
I'm inclined to go ahead and lock Samu in as town for the way Made pushed him all of Day 1. It starts here. It continues. Samu is town and I'm not gonna bother spending time and energy on it unless there are important developments.

Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:26 pm
Grand Scheme wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:20 am Wilgy's stocking is full of coal
But Grand Scheme will not judge his soul

Agreed with samu's Change My Mind
Wilgy's stocking is full of wine
I see your scheme as i see his coal
but with wifom can you not judge a soul

so direct are hearts to thing with meanings
Mr. Wilgy, what are your readings?
Made picks up Long Scheme's couplets but doesn't really say anything about Grand Con, just uses it to prod Wilgy without much weight or direction. I'd call this a good look for wilgy, or the start of one at least. Made wanted very much to push Wilgy and Syn together, and this is the first step in that direction.

Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:30 pm
Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:45 am
sig wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:06 am
[VOTE: Sig] aubergine
booo
Made is displeased with Samu's vote for Sig. Noted.

Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:38 pm I don't think wilgy getting the coal means he's bad, but i do think wilgy shouldn't use to night shoot unless he's proves to be on the nice list, and right now he's on the middle place list

thoughts?
Made says what amounts to nothing about Wilgy, this post seems to exist solely for the purpose of making sure we don't all town-read the good Doctor. Wilgy town.

Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:02 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:54 pm
Made wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:26 pm I see your scheme as i see his coal
but with wifom can you not judge a soul

so direct are hearts to thing with meanings
Mr. Wilgy, what are your readings?
Samu town,

Sig and Syn scum. Hbu?
Sig town,

Samu scum. Why is sig scum?
Wilgy responds to Made's vague prod with some direct reads: samu is town, sig and syn are not. Made disagrees with the reads on sig and samu. He ignores the Syn read altogether.
Samu is still town. Sig has now appeared twice in Made's ISO, both times Made has been disapproving of suspicion against him. Noted.

Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:05 pm cat is a duck, and i do not like that
Just noting this for Made's treatment of the confirmed-town feline. Joke suspicion that seems to justify positioning himself on board with the Cat bandwagon, as indicated by his next post.

Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:34 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:24 am
cat wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:48 am
Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:16 pm Cat, Samusamu, syn, and Mewtini please explain yourselves
I Refuse.
you're the only person in this town that I respect
this a meme or like....?
Kyle makes an appearance. It is nothing.

Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:02 pm
mewtini wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:45 am (my two cents is that i also don’t entirely jam with the playstyle, but i’m very hesitant to just call unfamiliar playstyles scummy esp in a new group; noting here that i’m a little frustrated by alison characterizing my “i don’t do hard scumreads d1” as a hedge + that she seemingly asked a question in the hopes of receiving a specific answer?)
top scum read? or is that the thing you don't do on d1???
Noting Made's treatment of mewtini. I'd still be suspicious of her if she was alive, so meh. He gives her a very generic prod.

Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:16 pm Wilgy’s iso is bad. like really really bad
I've deduced that wilgy is good. Like really really good. (also i've got Sherlock on in the background as I type this up and Martin Freeman just said the word "deduce" at the exact moment I typed it. It's a Christmas miracle.)

Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:25 pm [VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine feels like a more intentional cat, but somehow more airry
If this is how Made treated his teammate on Day 1 I will be very surprised.

Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:57 pm may it please the court:

made
sig
syn
kyle
sloonei

GS
mew
cat

alison
wilgy
samu
Day 1 reads. Alison was town and I am inclined to say that each of the other two in the bottom tier are as well. Grand Scheme is the only living player left in the middle tier. I'm not sure how Made would be inclined to classify his teammates here, but I think it's evident he's not trying to bus. He may have been inclined to at least separate his teammates, in which case the Schemer is the obvious odd man out.

If Made wanted to list both of his teammates in the top tier, then we're probably looking at a sig + kyle team. It ain't me and I'm fairly sure after yesterday that it ain't Syn either. (More on that later in this ISO, I'm getting ahead of myself!)
Oh his very next post points out that Falcon/Marmot is absent both from the list and the game at this point. I cannot read much into their absence from the list: on the one hand, Made probably would be less likely to forget to include his absentee teammate in a list of reads, but on the other his acknowledgment that he forgot could also be indicative of a partnership, or the omission could be intentional. Gun to my head, I'll read Marmot as town by omission, but I'm not taking that to the bank or anywhere else, even.

Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:12 pm
Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:57 pm may it please the court:

made
syn
kyle
sig
sloonei

GS
alison
mew
cat

wilgy
samu
iso'd alison and updated

cat alison interactions look good, alison sig interactions look bad.
sig wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:02 pm [VOTE: Alison ] aubergine

This doesn't seem like your civ game st all. I don't think your vote on me is genuine. In fact you were taking advantage of samu vote to try and get a wagon started.
which post looks different? what are your reads generally?
Made ISOs Alison and bumps her up to the middle tier. But he makes the weird point that "alison sig interactions look bad." This means absolutely nothing since Alison is town and Made knows it. This is the first time in the game that Made has suggested any sort of negative stance adjacent to sig.
He asks him a follow-up question to a point he raised about Alison. It tells me nothing.

Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:07 pm Mr. Sloonei, what's ur take on Syn?

Made wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:14 pm Ms. Syn same question but for sloonei.
Made went to some length to try to shade both Syn and I. Later on there was an implication that we could be partnered, but he also emphasized that we were independently suspicious. If he pushed harder on the angle of us being partners then I would read this less in syn's favor. But instead Made tried to push Syn and I both in the same vein that he pushed Wilgy. I highly highly doubt that Made prioritized pushing me along with his two teammates. I also think it would be a bit silly if he pushed two civilians and one teammate in the same exact manner, especially since there was relatively little prompting to suspect either of Syn or Wilgy on Day 2. He did that on his own, and I think his intentions were uncomplicated: get one of us mischopped. Just look at his more detailed Day 2 reads list:
Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:10 pm
~Reading Rainbow~
civvie

Made is town

mew reads like a civvie whose out of element but doesn't force the "hey guise i don't know what's going on!?". Her end of day looks genuine

The Marmot recap pretty much follows my thinking beat for beat. wifom on the coal pt2 feels like a trap worth avoiding for now

Grand Scheme is a green utilitarian, and his rhymes are as fun as baseball is american.

Kyle doesn't feel like he's really pushing things in any direction. His post felt fluffy in thread on first read, but his iso doesn't. plus i love kyle <3

ehhhhh

sig's mechanic talk was kinda irrelevant, but in a civvie way. His alison vote looked weird, but im vibing with him today

samu looked worst for not moving things yesterday, but i like his pushes today

bad

sloonei insist that samu is obv town because and then argues i'm bad because and then argues mewtini is bad because all of it feels forced

syn's end of day looks AWFUL. if wilgy is bad then syn is the teammate.

wilgy's talk looked bad yesterday, EOD vote around him look bad, silence today looks bad. iunnlikeem

knowing [VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine's alignment feels like it gives us the most information

thoughts?
The three "bad" reads were a major part of my case against Made. The bad reads are bad. Syn is town. Wilgy is town. I am comfortable moving forward with each of these reads. Samu is also town. There's three. Yay.

Made has sig in the "ehhh" category, but his read struggles to actually commit to anything unfavorable ("kinda irrelevant, but in a civvie way" [What?] "alison vote looked weird, but im vibing with him"). This reads like a town read that is arbitrarily placed outside of the section for town reads. Not a good look for sig.

The read on Kyle is distinctly more negative than the read on sig. It is jarring to see them placed in the order they are. I'll call that a good look for Kyle.

Made has Grand Scheme as his third highest town read. That does not compute. That doesn't even come close to computing. Damn. I shouldn't have focused so much on the bad reads. The "civvie" reads are even worse. I would have liked to make Made expand on this read, because... like, what on earth has Grand Scheme done to earn any sort of town read, let alone this third from the top placement?
Oh by the way, did I mention that the top two town reads are mewtini and Marmot? Granted, mewtini is now confirmed town, but I struggle to see what she did in her time here to earn Top Town Read status (and this point is why I was confident she was partnered with Made, mistakenly). Marmot as the second top town read is not as outrageous, but still something that seems far-fetched, especially given that Made was lamenting the slot's absence the previous day.
I think the absence of convincing top town reads is more to do with Made's insistence on keeping Samu and I (the two most obvious townies in the game, if I may say so) down low on the list. Grand Scheme and Sig are the two names that stand out most: sig because he is placed lower on the list than he should be based on Made's own words, and Grand Scheme because Made has no words to say about him.
Based purely on this list, I'd name Marmot as a more likely suspect than Kyle. I think if Made wants to town-read his partner Kyle here, he can do so without this level of shade.

Re-reading the next section of posts where Made and I argue about his reads, I'm realizing he actually has a lot more to say about Wilgy than Syn. He has relatively little say about Syn, and most of it actually is in conjunction with mentions of my name. So maybe this is an effort on Made's part to tie me to his partner in the event that Syn goes down. But doing that would require Syn to be in the line of fire, which he is not. I'm still inclined to call Syn town.
The aggression of his push on wilgy is way too much to be bussing.

Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:31 pm
sig wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:28 pm I'm like 60/40 on Made, I do think Sloonie comes off alot better in their discussion and made does look worse, but I'm also very confident in my Syn read.

I also like how confident you are on this, but I'm waffling.

My biggest issues with Made stem from the fact he did seem a bit opportunistic with Samu and how he waffled on me. Plus he didn't respond to Sloonie's case very well.
What do you think of my reasoning for sloonei, specifically his reads of mew and me?
Sig starts acknowledging that Made is a suspect. Made asks sig a generic question. beep boop. This tells me nothing.

And that's the end of it.

Samu
Wilgy
Syn
Kyle
Marmot
Grand Scheme
sig

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:57 am Sig & Made

Spoiler: show
sig wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:48 pm Also I'll be back to reevaluate and take a deeper look at samu after work today.

Other random thoughts

Made may be trying to budd/pocket me, not a fan of this slight ping.

Wilgy makes an interesting point without straying to deep down the meta hole i think we can accurately say at least one mafia member is a TS native. Still iffy on him.

I don't think sloonie is on samu team that's mainly gut though.
"Made may be trying to pocket me" which is an alleged ping. Keeps the door open to arbitrary Wilgy suspicion. Sloonei and Samu are not partners. Cool. How does this Made read progress?

Spoiler: show
sig wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:54 am Mew, made and sloonie look good right now,

LC is slanking a bit and that pings me
Made looks good. Okay. Why? Made's most recent posts before this one were pushes on cat and samu. I think neither looked good.

Spoiler: show
sig wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:24 pm
Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:12 pm
Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:57 pm may it please the court:

made
syn
kyle
sig
sloonei

GS
alison
mew
cat

wilgy
samu
iso'd alison and updated

cat alison interactions look good, alison sig interactions look bad.
sig wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:02 pm [VOTE: Alison ] aubergine

This doesn't seem like your civ game st all. I don't think your vote on me is genuine. In fact you were taking advantage of samu vote to try and get a wagon started.
which post looks different? what are your reads generally?
Someone else also said this. But she's not attempting to be a town leader really and even more damning is the lack of any desire to talk mechanics.

She's also being alot more nitpicky and only seems to be focusing in on me which isn't what I saw from previous games from her.
Sig responds to Made's generic prod RE: Alison with a decidedly negative stance. Okay.

Spoiler: show
sig wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:27 pm Quick read list atm in no order

Town
Sloonie
Lc
Mew

Town lean
Made
Samu
Syn

Null
Falcon

Scum lean
Kyle
Wilgy
Cat

Scum
Alison
Made is a "town lean" with Samu and Syn. Noting that Long Scheme is a top town read for sig as well. What is happening here?
"Scum leans" are Kyle, wilgy, and cat. That wilgy read is dubious, as always. I don't know why the Kyle read exists.

Spoiler: show
sig wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:00 pm I'm leery of a Made lynch I'll review the cases today but he seems to be playing within his normal civ meta.

sig wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:01 pm I'd say he'd be a good present target also (Made) but jd prefer to lynch syn/wilgy since if ones mafia I'm certain they both are
I was pleading with everyone to acknowledge my Made case and it finally started to gain traction. Sig didn't seem to like that, but he can't bring himself to outright defend Made. I have no idea why he thinks Made would be better suited for a shot-in-the-dark nightkill than a chop.

Spoiler: show
sig wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:37 pm Made would probably be my secondary counterwagon to Syn, Wilgy should only be lynched/shot if Syn is mafia. Otherwise alot of the reasoning for me would be gone.

Now I'd prefer to lynch Syn for the shot dynamics. If Syn is civ shoot Made. If Syn is mafia shoot Wilgy. Either way I'd say we'd be down 1-2 mafia members. Since I don't see a world where all 3 are civs based off the cases made.
Made is distinctly not Sig's priority. Noted.

Spoiler: show
sig wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:13 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:07 pm
sig wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:41 pm Also I know it's the holiday, but the thread is very stagnate. Which makes me wonder if we're going in the complete wrong direction here.
Talk about made.
I'm torn. So, I think you raised some good points I especially find the mew/made connection a bit weird. But he's had the same views as I do with Wilgy and Samu which earns him some town points.

From a meta view there isn't alot to go on for me he's always been harder for me to get an angle on, but as far as what I've seen it seems more in line with his civ game.

The biggest thing that's making me a bitch sketchy is how his opinion on me evolved, it seems like he was buddying me D1, then when I mentioned I was pinged a bit he suddenly finds me more scummy.
I disliked this post and it was where I really started to suspect a sig/made pairing. Sig's hesitance is right there on his face, and the point he chooses to emphasize ("the mew/made connection") was hardly a primary piece of my argument against Made and, as we now know, it is one that obviously would have given him a nice easy scapegoat today in the aftermath of Made's flip.
I was also skeptical of sig's citation of Made's meta. It's been a while since Made played. I have a hard time buying that sig has a distinct working memory of the differences between Made's town/mafia metas.

Spoiler: show
sig wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:15 pm I also disagree with you on Syn, regardless of anything else that's scummy.

Honestly the biggest reason I'd switch to Made is since you're so sure of it and i've basically got you down as a lock civ

sig wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:15 pm Okay, Imma reread the entire Sloonie vs Made thing real fast
First, sig continues to push Syn while all of this is happening.
Second, Sig has reluctantly come along to offer the most tentative possible support of the Made case on the basis of my confidence in the read. No mention of specific points (such as the mew/made connection, for instance), just citation of my read. But then, after that, he says he'll go and read the case. Which... if he hasn't done that yet then why's he agreeing with aspects of it? Bad post from sig.

Spoiler: show
sig wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:28 pm I'm like 60/40 on Made, I do think Sloonie comes off alot better in their discussion and made does look worse, but I'm also very confident in my Syn read.

I also like how confident you are on this, but I'm waffling.

My biggest issues with Made stem from the fact he did seem a bit opportunistic with Samu and how he waffled on me. Plus he didn't respond to Sloonie's case very well.
Sig continues to drag his feet toward Made's inevitable chop. But he won't let go of Syn.
His "biggest issue" with Made has changed now to his treatment of Samu. The connection to mewtini is not mentioned. This feels like a false progression.

Spoiler: show
sig wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:47 pm So did a quick reread of made, since I'm aware the clock is running out.

I'm still worried this could be town/town, at the same time
1. i don't see sloonie or samu dropping this so it needs to be resolved and we still can loose a civ and be fine number wise.
2. Sloonie is a solid town read and samu is a moderate town read, so I don't think this is a case of mafia trying to redirect onto made
3. The more I read over Made day 1 action the less I like it specifically how he seemed to partly use me as a reason to vote for samu and my argument around mechanjc but then dropped it d2 and said that didn't make me seem civil. I don't see how that can coexist if he was scum reading samu for opposing my shot idea/me. But then also doesn't clear me for it.
Made's chop is inevitable at this point. Sig says so himself. This feels a bit more strained than it should: I don't really buy it at all when Sig says that his Syn suspicion is as strong or stronger than the argument against Made. By his own admission, the Syn case is flawed, but he refuses to let go of it for no particular reason.

Spoiler: show
sig wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:26 pm [VOTE: made] aubergine

I'm not really sold on this lynch tbh, not very confident he's gonna flip mafia but. There's enough that I do see the case sloonie made and I do trust him totally. We also do need to resolve it and can't really trust the gift to 100% go to either him or syn.

I do think we should shoot syn though.
He votes for Made ~30 minutes before EoD. I still feel like he's straining here. This is not the vote he wants to cast (he spends too much time justifying the vote in ways that don't actually involve Made), but he has no other choice.

At this point I will be surprised if sig is town.

Sloonei thoughts about sig/made etc. Nobody can refute this to sloonei.

Samusamu wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 6:05 am i noddle everytime i read slooney, my screenshots of yesterday reread are the same than he mention.

And our list are pretty similar but my poe was something like.

Grand scheme
Kyle
Marmot
Sig.

Well, i screenshot the same post of gs saying that made was town but skipped the other part that slooney mention. That makes me like

@Syn @DrWilgy and the rest of the town.

If sig flips scum and we shoot in the poe the game prob is won by mechanics.

So today have to be consensus with the names.

It is okey for everybody

Me supporting from the very beggining the lynch on sig.

Syn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:15 pm
Samusamu wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 6:05 am i noddle everytime i read slooney, my screenshots of yesterday reread are the same than he mention.

And our list are pretty similar but my poe was something like.

Grand scheme
Kyle
Marmot
Sig.

Well, i screenshot the same post of gs saying that made was town but skipped the other part that slooney mention. That makes me like

@Syn @DrWilgy and the rest of the town.

If sig flips scum and we shoot in the poe the game prob is won by mechanics.

So today have to be consensus with the names.

It is okey for everybody
I have no reason to suspect Sloonei as deep woof

And honestly, there's no way I can match his WIM here, especially on phpBB

so I promise to pick the other person in Sloonei's most sus POE as my target if sig/lc flip red

SYN PROMISING to follow the sloonei poe ig sig were scum.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:11 pm Marmot's first post is his massive ketchup wall. He gives Made an early town read for Made's public lesson on coal. Not unfair.
The most substantial point RE: Made is difficult to follow:
Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:58 pm I've generally felt good about Sloonei and null on Made, but the end of this interaction is weird.

If Made doesn't believe Sloonei, normally that would mean he scumreads Sloonei.

I get that townies are far less likely to lie than wolves, but the question Sloonei asked in response is still weird. I can't put my finger on why.
It is unclear from this which of us (me or Made) Marmot says he feels "weird" about. The first line gives no indication what the source of the weirdness is. The second line would indicate Made is the weird one. The third directly states that I am the weird one.
Could you explain this response in more detail, O Christmas Marmot?

Spoiler: show
Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:03 pm Current reads

Town:
Marmot
Sig
Samusamu
Sloonei
Grand Scheme

Middling:
Mewtini
Syn
Made

Scum:
Kylemii
DrWilgy
Marmot has Made in the middle tier of his reads list, shared with Mewtini and Syn. Kyle and Wilgy are at the bottom.
Why is everyone listing Grand Scheme as a town read in all these lists?

Incidental mention of Made in a discussion with Syn about Wilgy.

Spoiler: show
Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:26 pm
Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:01 pm Also end of day is really early. the cat wagon feels under developed, and I don’t like samu’s vote there. where are people on mewtini?? Wilgy???

Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:16 pm Wilgy’s iso is bad. like really really bad

Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:25 pm [VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine feels like a more intentional cat, but somehow more airry

@Sloonei I thought this series of posts was sincere. I also think Wilgy's scum, and this is a great look for Made if I'm wrong.
Direct defense of Made when I prompted the thread for pro-Made arguments. Not the best look in the world, but he was just answering my question. But Marmot was the only one to really step up to the plate here, and I can't not give that some weight here. I'll also note that this is a different point than the one Marmot raised to give Made town credit earlier, if that means anything.

Spoiler: show
Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:08 pm Oh carp, I forgot day ended now, although my vote doesn't count anyway, so whatever

If posting is still permitted, everyone should post their targets tonight imo. My pick is Wilgy.

Also, I don't think Made is mafia, but I do generally townread the voters on his wagon (and not just because their names all start with s)
Implicit support of the Made wagon. This is more direct than sig's implicit support. I still don't love the way it looks, but if I'm comparing those two then Marmot is better. But not by a lot.

This is not a comprehensive Marmot ISO, obviously, and I don't have much of a feel for his game as a whole right now. But the Made interactions are Not So Great.

Begggining of the marmots case by sloonei.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:31 pm Kyle & Made
Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:51 pm
Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:34 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:24 am
cat wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:48 am
Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:16 pm Cat, Samusamu, syn, and Mewtini please explain yourselves
I Refuse.
you're the only person in this town that I respect
this a meme or like....?
I've never memed a single day in my life.
Authenticators have confirmed that this exchange exists.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:29 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:24 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:11 pm Please give me your most biased accounts of each case as you can muster and I will vote accordingly
Made is mafia. He made wilgy get coal.

amazing, what about the other two
This one too. I do not read this as Kyle trying to "change the subject" from Made or anything like that. I think he just showed up late and wanted to know what was happening.

That's it. There is nothing here. I can't really award Kyle any townie points for the content, though the lack of content might be worth something: If Made is his partner then I expect Kyle to show some nervousness or effort to save him at EoD2. He did not end up voting at all. The anti-Kyle argument is that he didn't have a way to comfortably justify a vote on a counterwagon, if one even existed by the time he arrived (i forget. was working and didn't have an eye on the poll, but it seemed made was comfortably in the lead so i wasn't worried). But I think Kyle's nonchalance is a slightly good look here. Light town read.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:37 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:28 am Samu
Wilgy
Syn
Kyle
Marmot
Grand Scheme
sig
The ordering of this list is unchanged after individual ISOs (I'm not bothering with Samu. He's town). I might separate Kyle and Marmot into separate green tiers if I want to get meticulous, but it's Christmas. Eve. I think the team could be exactly Sig + Grand Scheme, but if it's not then Marmot is my other guess.

I believe we have one mischop left by POE numbers, but things are wonky in this setup. At any rate, clearing 4 players should secure the win. If anyone objects to Samu, Wilgy, Syn, or Kyle being cleared, speak now.

Nobody talks here, i support that reads.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:50 pm Scanning Marmot's ISO in full, my critique is this: his posts fit perfectly into the agenda Made was pushing. The small size of this game would prompt the Mafia team to be aggressive (they don't need to survive for a long time. Just a couple of day phases, so I think we're more likely to see coordinated pushes in this setup than in a ~15 player game, for instance). He defends Made, he pushes hard on Wilgy and Syn with a some smaller nudges toward Kyle and Alison. I think the suspicions against Wilgy in this game have been bad, and we now know that in at least one case, they were dishonest as well. I do not think Wilgy has done anything outside of the very ordinary for him, and I actually disagree completely with Marmot's assessment of Wilgy's entrance now that I've read it. Wilgy was the victim of the most direct and widespread bandwagon of the game until Made's name was dragged up. And Made was at the forefront of the Wilgy push. So was Marmot.

sig wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:49 pm So if we assume wilgy is a civ. I'd say chances are high Marmot is a mafia member. With potentially lc. I'm not willing to reject the deep wolf argument all the way but should scout out other options first.

sig wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:50 pm Also this is a bit more mech talk. But I think it would be odd if mafia hasn't gifted themselves coal. So I'd say jt would come down between marmot/wilgy for that

More.

Samusamu wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:03 pm I'm dinning feliz navidad to everybody.

I'm most favorable to lynch sig, shoot marmot and lynch grand scheme if there is a town in the two first.

I will read calmly what u writted.

Supporting sig lynch again.

Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:53 am
sig wrote: ↑Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:24 am I'm not gonna ve around much today or this phase. Really saying I didn't respond well to the case is something I'm not a fan of just since timing wise I haven't had the well tjme.

I was town reading sloonie still want to, but seemed to be singularly focused on me and ik I'm civ.

If we want to stay within poe I'd say go for LC today shoot Marmot then give me a better chance to defend myself/dig around next day phase when I've got the time.
You have had many opportunities to defend yourself and as soon as the pressure rises on you, you claim the option to survive at all costs.

But you never shoot against marmot .

I like you but you need to be lynched today.

Me baiting sig with marmot, he let this without a reap0nse but sig tryied to pusj marmot and wilgy, but never with weight on marmot.

Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:54 am
Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:53 am
sig wrote: ↑Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:24 am I'm not gonna ve around much today or this phase. Really saying I didn't respond well to the case is something I'm not a fan of just since timing wise I haven't had the well tjme.

I was town reading sloonie still want to, but seemed to be singularly focused on me and ik I'm civ.

If we want to stay within poe I'd say go for LC today shoot Marmot then give me a better chance to defend myself/dig around next day phase when I've got the time.
You have had many opportunities to defend yourself and as soon as the pressure rises on you, you claim the option to survive at all costs.

But you never shoot against marmot .

I like you but you need to be lynched today.
You never shoot against marmot in this day phase.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:48 pm Samu, targets please.

N1 sig
N2 mewtini
N3 marmot.

Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:43 am
sig wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:03 am I guess everyone is to busy adulting or something.

But. I do have a few ideas regarding gifts, so from the rules it sounds like mafia give them out, but we don't know who got it.. This is gonna further muddy the waters paired with coal.

I don't think hero shooting is necessarily the best way to approach it until mid game, before mid game and once we get closer to end game it would probably make the most sense if everyone targeted the same person. That would insure town has more control over the game and we're not just hitting random people.

I'd also say for n1 we just target people who haven't shown up yet. I'm never really a fan of lynching non posters I think its a good way for mafia to blend and not have responsibility, but given that these are kills i think it may make the most sense to trim the fat early
Ññññ.

Too early to talk about lynching non poster.

I was thinking about the hero shooting thing.

I conclude that i dont care meanwhile that person can explain the shot and that explanation sound legit to me in day 1/2.

Saying hey i have a shot lets talk to decide who should we shot its a good and easy way for deepwolfing.

This post sounds to me like preparing the ground for the scenario where a scum is given the shot and can easily spend half a day just talking about the shot and not giving an opinion.

You post like a mafia .

For this post and the nexts interactions that i support and continue by myself, we had lynched made and sig. Not scum agenda.

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:45 am Sloonei, do you agree on disagree on the following points:

1) Samusamu is obvious town.
2) Sig would see that Samusamu is obvious town if he was town.

Alison townread.

sig wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:53 am
Samusamu wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:26 am
sig wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:15 am I've got a tin foil theory brewing that wilgy, cat, and then Allison/syn are mafia with a tin foiled version of that theory saying instead of them its samu.
Instead four persons i'm the mafia? Only i?
I mean you'd replace one of them.

Alison, Kyle, syn, wilgy, or cat.

Followed by samu being my like extra strong tin foil.

For this interaction i think all the names here are town, thats why marmot and gs are the poe

sig wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:27 pm Quick read list atm in no order

Town
Sloonie
Lc
Mew

Town lean
Made
Samu
Syn

Null
Falcon

Scum lean
Kyle
Wilgy
Cat

Scum
Alison

sig wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:27 pm Wilgy, Kyle and syn I'm having massive problems reading

This two post tell me that prob that names are town.

Samusamu wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:50 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:46 pm Just throwing this out here we have enough time to cfd onto Alison.
Sorry but no. I wont allow that kind of lynch with no reasons and less in the last 15 minutes.

This is me not supporting a alison lynch.

Samusamu wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:56 pm
mewtini wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:52 pm ok NOW i have isod cat

and i don't want to lynch there lol. anyone got an 11th hour counterwagon they wanna jump on with me, that preferably isn't wilgy (on tone i'd rather kill wilgy than cat, but the coal n0 makes me want to just leave him alone,)
I wanna lynch sig right now.

And this is me, moments after not letting an alison lynch, trying to lynch sig. (Btw you vote in the last second if you werent trolling and talk to me we could prob lynch sig d1)

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:03 pm Current reads

Town:
Marmot
Sig
Samusamu
Sloonei
Grand Scheme

Middling:
Mewtini
Syn
Made

Scum:
Kylemii
DrWilgy

Marmot agenda trying to lynch kyle or wilgy similar with the agenda of sig and mas.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:56 pm I did not like Made's initial progression on Samu:
Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:30 pm
Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:18 pm
Made wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:05 pm
Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:02 pm [big post]
this is word salady af. I don't see how this kind of staging is helps us when it hasn't happened, it just will create more confusion when/if it does, which serves scum
Wow!

I'm saying why i read someone scum, and finishing that thought, that is very confuse, haha no.
You just used the word prototypical. This is some syergistic corporate megalamanic viscerlony baloney my friend

get rid of the words and you get "yeah, uhhh no me? no u!! anyways wifom anyone?"
I informed him that a language barrier was standing between samu and the rest of us. Made acknowledged this fact but explicitly gave it no weight in his read:

Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:37 pm Word, respect. keeping my sus, but tossing the knife. I don't know what the word prototypical means, and big words threaten me general, so that much might just be on me
I think this makes his samu suspicion appear very flimsy. "Big words scary" amounts to nothing at all, and is not quite the same as the initial "word salad" accusation. The goalposts have been moved.

Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:44 pm
Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:52 pm
Made wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:30 pm You just used the word prototypical. This is some syergistic corporate megalamanic viscerlony baloney my friend

get rid of the words and you get "yeah, uhhh no me? no u!! anyways wifom anyone?"
I dont understand this post.
I was saying that I thought your post was wordy, and that it was wordy to hide your straight forward point that could make things more confusing later on.. Now that I know about the language gap, I still think that your take is sus, but i'm putting less weight into word choice

dropping this wifom mess, and dropping a vote on [VOTE: samusamu] aubergine
The goalposts are moved again. We started out with "word salad." Then it became "big words scary." Now he throws out the linguistic aspect of it entirely to say "your take is sus." Made has offered no opinion on any particular takes of samu's other than to generalize that his posts are confusing. When he was made aware of the language gap, he nodded at it as if it made a difference in his read, but instead of actually applying the new information and adjusting accordingly, Made just slid around it and voiced a new and unrelated reason to suspect Samu in stride. This is a Bad Look.

Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:27 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:16 pm
Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:46 pm
Samusamu wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:20 am Ahh wait, i can change my vote now.

[VOTE: Cat] aubergine

Dont like fluff posters
What do you think about sloonei?
What do you think about sloonei?
Hekkatown
Moving along, I do not know what the point of Made asking Samu for a read on me here was. I had previously told Made to his face that I suspected him in response to a direct question, but he did not acknowledge me at all. Instead, he asked samu for a read on me several hours later. I wanted him to answer his own question, and he slapped a town read on me, which is interesting because the extent of our interaction in the game prior to this was a generic prod question from Made, a juicy answer from Sloonei, and zero follow-up from Made.

I thought Made's responses to my interrogation afterward felt a bit flat, like he was trying to project confidence against my pressure:
Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:32 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:27 pm
Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:27 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:16 pm What do you think about sloonei?
Hekkatown
Why?
I like the cut of ya jib, not really see an angle for a bad paprika generally, and ur defense of samu enough sense to be genuine

Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:42 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:34 pm I think you are mafia. Thoughts?
Kinda don’t believe you, so will see where that goes, but are entitled to your onion mr. paprika. I’m town, so
Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:47 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:43 pm Why would I lie if I'm town?
reaction gauging imo, kinda “scumy” in a literal sense but it has utility, and I don’t have reason distrust that yet

Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:37 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:02 pm What makes you think my suspicion of you is “reaction gauging”, @Made?
I “don’t” but it feels more likely that ur testing my loyalty to the civvie cause than any baddie angles I can think of anyways.

I am loyal to the court, my friend.

(Plus you just said you’re looking for [Something] so...)

I have trouble understanding the progression of these thoughts. Made says that he believes I am simply testing him for reactions, which means my suspicion is false, which is "scummy but has utility", but then he distinctly doesn't think I'm reaction testing, but that I'm "testing his loyalty" (???). None of this computes over here, and each response feels like it's meant more to appease me than to actually progress the dialogue to a place of understanding. Sometimes (not all the time) when I start digging deep into somebody like this, our back-and-forth will take the shape of an organic dialogue, and ideas will grow/expand out of it, and that's usually a sign of a good townie.
With Made, I ask a question and his answers are short, definitive, closed off. They go nowhere. They feel like obstacles, and he doesn't want there to be any more follow-up questions.

SLOONEI SUMMARIZE INTERACTIONS WITH MADE, INCLUDES ME AND MY INTERACTIONS NOT SAME AGENDA.

Samusamu wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:10 pm
Made wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:10 pm
~Reading Rainbow~
civvie

Made is town

mew reads like a civvie whose out of element but doesn't force the "hey guise i don't know what's going on!?". Her end of day looks genuine

The Marmot recap pretty much follows my thinking beat for beat. wifom on the coal pt2 feels like a trap worth avoiding for now

Grand Scheme is a green utilitarian, and his rhymes are as fun as baseball is american.

Kyle doesn't feel like he's really pushing things in any direction. His post felt fluffy in thread on first read, but his iso doesn't. plus i love kyle <3

ehhhhh

sig's mechanic talk was kinda irrelevant, but in a civvie way. His alison vote looked weird, but im vibing with him today

samu looked worst for not moving things yesterday, but i like his pushes today

bad

sloonei insist that samu is obv town because and then argues i'm bad because and then argues mewtini is bad because all of it feels forced

syn's end of day looks AWFUL. if wilgy is bad then syn is the teammate.

wilgy's talk looked bad yesterday, EOD vote around him look bad, silence today looks bad. iunnlikeem

knowing [VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine's alignment feels like it gives us the most information

thoughts?
Wtf dude? U talk like u know that cat was a bad lynch, i didnt see u defending him or convincing me/others to do other thing with enough reasons.

Me against made at the beggining of the day meanwhile rereading and realizing of made scumness

Samusamu wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:13 pm
Made wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:10 pm
~Reading Rainbow~
civvie

Made is town

mew reads like a civvie whose out of element but doesn't force the "hey guise i don't know what's going on!?". Her end of day looks genuine

The Marmot recap pretty much follows my thinking beat for beat. wifom on the coal pt2 feels like a trap worth avoiding for now

Grand Scheme is a green utilitarian, and his rhymes are as fun as baseball is american.

Kyle doesn't feel like he's really pushing things in any direction. His post felt fluffy in thread on first read, but his iso doesn't. plus i love kyle <3

ehhhhh

sig's mechanic talk was kinda irrelevant, but in a civvie way. His alison vote looked weird, but im vibing with him today

samu looked worst for not moving things yesterday, but i like his pushes today

bad

sloonei insist that samu is obv town because and then argues i'm bad because and then argues mewtini is bad because all of it feels forced

syn's end of day looks AWFUL. if wilgy is bad then syn is the teammate.

wilgy's talk looked bad yesterday, EOD vote around him look bad, silence today looks bad. iunnlikeem

knowing [VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine's alignment feels like it gives us the most information

thoughts?
Also, the syn and wilgy parts are tu vagues for being your principal scum candidates.

Can u elaborate more or you cant

@Syn the 3vs3 i insist

More against made when not a solid push were on made. I support and help sloonei with that push from the beggining, it will be stupid if i were mafia and support that push in that form from the beggining.

Samusamu wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:52 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:33 pm Kyle/mewtini, I'm having the hardest time reading you two. Weigh in on sig vs samu, please.

I'm not a fan of Made suspecting Samu. I think Samu is pretty obviously town and it's very easy to see that.

Samu
GS
Syn
Wilgy
[everyone else]
Made
Sig

I'm off now.
I'm having problems reading wilgy and gs. For me they are nai, so lets be sheepped and and say they are town for the moment.

Also dont like Made, and i have been townreading sig for a while.

So lets see if alison is right with made.

[VOTE: Made] aubergine

Samusamu wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:54 am Also, this are the reads from made d1:

made
sig
syn
kyle
sloonei

GS
mew
cat

alison
wilgy
samu

Samusamu wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:02 am
Samusamu wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:54 am Also, this are the reads from made d1:

made
sig
syn
kyle
sloonei

GS
mew
cat

alison
wilgy
samu
I can see slooney and sig a little.

Gs, syn, wilgy and kyle were town for alison, i will consider that she can be 3/4 right in that town reads (or 1/4 of being mafia), and for that scumreads she has to be atleast 1/2 right.

Then i know this.

may it please the court:

made (1/2)
sig (1/2)
syn (1/4)
kyle (1/4)
sloonei

GS (1/4)
mew
cat (town)

alison (town)
wilgy (1/4)
samu (town)

Samusamu wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:05 am
Samusamu wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:02 am
Samusamu wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:54 am Also, this are the reads from made d1:

made
sig
syn
kyle
sloonei

GS
mew
cat

alison
wilgy
samu
I can see slooney and sig a little.

Gs, syn, wilgy and kyle were town for alison, i will consider that she can be 3/4 right in that town reads (or 1/4 of being mafia), and for that scumreads she has to be atleast 1/2 right.

Then i know this.

may it please the court:

made (1/2)
sig (1/2)
syn (1/4)
kyle (1/4)
sloonei

GS (1/4)
mew
cat (town)

alison (town)
wilgy (1/4)
samu (town)
And from my point of view without alison reads.

may it please the court:

made (scum vibes)
sig (town lean)
syn (scum lean)
kyle (nai)
sloonei (town for me)

GS (nai)
mew (townlean
cat (town confirmed)

alison (town confirmed)
wilgy (nai)
samu (town)

Samusamu wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:18 am Well i confirm my push on made today, also i'm thinking who should i shoot.

Me confirming my push on made with some of my thoughts and reads.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:57 pm Made continues to be Mafia - Day 2 Edition:

I provided a big and fairly comprehensive argument for Made As Mafia yesterday afternoon. I am an experienced player. I have written a lot of cases in my mafia life. I know when I feel like they make sense, or at least when they're viable and easy to follow. This one on Made felt very self-evident. I talked about what he did and why his actions made me feel the way that I did. There was nothing, I felt, difficult or opaque about it. Everything you need to know about my read on Made is right there on the surface of my words.

Then when Made returned to the thread, this was his impassioned response:
Made wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:07 pm Mr. Sloonei, what's ur take on Syn?
Made wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:14 pm Ms. Syn same question but for sloonei.

Why does my read on Syn matter here? Why does Syn's read on me matter? The latter thought is what prompted me to point out that I am universalliy town-read (sans Made). Made asking Syn for a read on the player everybody has decided to read as town felt hollow. Made asking Syn for a readon the player everybody has decided to read as town when said player has just posted a big comprehensive case explaining why he reads Made as mafia, and Made has not touched it with a thirty-nine and a half foot pole, looks weak and almost impossible from an honest civilian mindset.

But then we get to Made's reads list, which has me and Syn both at the bottom. So maybe he feels there is a connection between us. His syn suspicion seems to hinge on wilgy being bad. I think the Wilgy suspicion is empty. I am not saying I read Wilgy's posts as town definitively. But I definitely don't read them as suspicious. I read them as posts coming from DrWilgy, and I challenge anyone here to make an argument for why those posts are bad. I'm willing to listen, but there is nothing out of the ordinary about this game's version of Wilgy, and Wilgy is everyone's favorite mischop bait. It's almost transparently bad.

Let's get tot he reasons Made lists for scum reading each of us:
"wilgy's talk looked bad yesterday, EOD vote around him look bad, silence today looks bad. iunnlikeem"
What "talk" looked bad? What votes looked bad and why? Why is his silence bad? Why can't his absence simply be absence? This is not the least bit uncommon for DrWilgy. So why is any of it bad?

"syn's end of day looks AWFUL. if wilgy is bad then syn is the teammate."
Why did Syn's end of day look AWFUL? Evidently because he switched a joke vote from Wilgy onto Sig at the last moment, which is apparently what the mafia team would want because it would create a tie... when we already had a civilian being chopped in cat. And no mafia member in their right mind would go out of their way to cast such a brazen and reckless vote at the last minute when people are on high alert about tie-creation. Why on all of Santa's wonderful Earth would a Mafia Syn leap to cast a vote on Town Sig to tie him up with Town Cat in the poll at the last second? No. That makes no sense. That is not an argument.

"sloonei insist that samu is obv town because and then argues i'm bad because and then argues mewtini is bad because all of it feels forced"
Okay, remember up above when Made's full arguments against Wilgy and Syn were "looked bad" and "looks AWFUL"? It's not even like those are summaries of previous reads he'd stated. If you search his ISO for mentions of either of those two, he never elaborates beyond similar observations of frank "badness".
I bring all of this up because I would like to direct your attention, dear reader, to Made's summary of my own cases against him and Mewtini. Made summarizes each of them via a confused2 emoji. That is to say, Made alleges that my cases against him and Mewtini are either insubstantial or make no sense. I remind you that the entirety of his top two cases are "looks bad" and "looks awful."
I direct your attention, once again, to my cases: Made & Mewtini.
Those are definitely not insubstantial. If they make no sense, I have not had anyone engage with me on them yet to determine what is lacking. I feel as though they both make very clear sense. That is not to say they're both correct. But they should definitely be readable. Made denies that they are and tosses a blanket of suspicion on me in the process. If that is a genuine read, I'm flabbergasted! Vexed! Dumbfounded!
I pressed him to expound on his stances a bit more and he, once again, failed to do so in a satisfying manner. This is the most we got:
Made wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:22 pm nah, i saw them, they just don't really make sense to me. my issue with samu was the delivery, yes, but also the core message that sounded like a "no you, but also let's distract thread!". and mew showing up 13 minutes before deadline, and then throwing a new name in the mix i feel like would of been scummy af. reads like a team player imo
He touches briefly on one point (RE: samu) from his own case, and just hand waves at the entire case against Mewtini. The specific reference to "13 minutes" even suggests to me that the case resonated with Made, or else he wouldn't be as likely to specify the exact right number that I used in my analysis. I do not know if this points to Made + Mewtini as teammates (for what it's worth, Made lists mew as his top townread in his reads list), or if it's just Made working extra hard to discredit me. But I simply do not believe Made when he says that my arguments do not make sense to him.

[VOTE: made] aubergine

Sloonei second try of pushing made because only i see the evidence and read enough to see the scumness from made.

Samusamu wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:18 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:14 pm Perhaps the thread is stagnant because we are going in the right direction but the mafia team is hoping we don't make any progress.
I cant answer you, but i read u and noddle.

Me saying that i was busy, but i support that push again cause i realize that it was good.

Samusamu wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:33 pm
sig wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:29 pm I'm gonna carve out like 20 minutes do a quick ISO of Made instead of just reading through the argument, then pop back in again.

I'm assuming there's no way @Samusamu @Sloonei would switch to Syn today?
No

Made acknowledging that the push were from sloonei and i and me confirming that i dont want to lynch syn. More when i confirm made scumness

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:00 pm Interesting, I was coaled Night 1 and Alison dies (who I targeted)

Samu was coaled Night 2 and mew dies (who he targeted)

I wonder if mafia are coaling and gifting the same player every time.

Samusamu wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:26 pm In what world a mafia slooney will do that post against made, He was able to make literally half the effort in them to convey his idea and yet he made an effort to convey his readings so that he decided to go to Made once and for all.

Samusamu wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:35 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:27 pm Also I thought coal was permanent
No, thoughts on marmot?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:43 pm
Samusamu wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:35 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:27 pm Also I thought coal was permanent
No, thoughts on marmot?
Town, but I haven’t looked into made’s interactions beyond sig and mewtini yet.

Samusamu wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:20 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:43 pm
Samusamu wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:35 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:27 pm Also I thought coal was permanent
No, thoughts on marmot?
Town, but I haven’t looked into made’s interactions beyond sig and mewtini yet.
Well, hoping to read why town.

Me having isoed marmots agenda and speaking with slooney to check if he see the same.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:28 am Made ISO

Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:20 pm
Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:33 am
cat wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:22 am
Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 5:17 am I just wake up, coal on wilgy is wifom at the moment.

Changemymind.jpg

But it is not wifom If we want to look at the mental profile of the mafia, it is more interesting to take that into account.
Probably need to lynch a few of them first. I personally would coal my own buddy D1 but i tend to be a little insane so i don't expect a lot others to do it.
Think of it this way, you think it's safest to put it in a partner on d1.

The metagame causes you to think about who is more likely to put a partner or who is more likely to put a town.

You, who are human and have an ego, will want to be above your goal or not and will do the opposite of what you are expected to do or not. In the end your defence against such an accusation is as easy as saying, hey, that I wouldn't have done this, it is very obvious to me, or saying, hey, that this is the opposite of what I would do, it is not my "metagame".

That's why it's wifom.

As I pointed out before, the interesting thing about this fact comes now by reading the game and seeing how it develops.

Nah okay wait. If santa's elfs from hell don't get to kill people and only get to kill people through their one shot, then optimal play is to give your teammates the shot asap. Obv that's wifom, but that doesn't change the benefit you get from that. the more we talk about it thread, the more it becomes wifom, which is why I don't think this conversation serves town
I'm inclined to go ahead and lock Samu in as town for the way Made pushed him all of Day 1. It starts here. It continues. Samu is town and I'm not gonna bother spending time and energy on it unless there are important developments.

Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:26 pm
Grand Scheme wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:20 am Wilgy's stocking is full of coal
But Grand Scheme will not judge his soul

Agreed with samu's Change My Mind
Wilgy's stocking is full of wine
I see your scheme as i see his coal
but with wifom can you not judge a soul

so direct are hearts to thing with meanings
Mr. Wilgy, what are your readings?
Made picks up Long Scheme's couplets but doesn't really say anything about Grand Con, just uses it to prod Wilgy without much weight or direction. I'd call this a good look for wilgy, or the start of one at least. Made wanted very much to push Wilgy and Syn together, and this is the first step in that direction.

Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:30 pm
Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:45 am
sig wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:06 am
[VOTE: Sig] aubergine
booo
Made is displeased with Samu's vote for Sig. Noted.

Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:38 pm I don't think wilgy getting the coal means he's bad, but i do think wilgy shouldn't use to night shoot unless he's proves to be on the nice list, and right now he's on the middle place list

thoughts?
Made says what amounts to nothing about Wilgy, this post seems to exist solely for the purpose of making sure we don't all town-read the good Doctor. Wilgy town.

Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:02 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:54 pm
Made wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:26 pm I see your scheme as i see his coal
but with wifom can you not judge a soul

so direct are hearts to thing with meanings
Mr. Wilgy, what are your readings?
Samu town,

Sig and Syn scum. Hbu?
Sig town,

Samu scum. Why is sig scum?
Wilgy responds to Made's vague prod with some direct reads: samu is town, sig and syn are not. Made disagrees with the reads on sig and samu. He ignores the Syn read altogether.
Samu is still town. Sig has now appeared twice in Made's ISO, both times Made has been disapproving of suspicion against him. Noted.

Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:05 pm cat is a duck, and i do not like that
Just noting this for Made's treatment of the confirmed-town feline. Joke suspicion that seems to justify positioning himself on board with the Cat bandwagon, as indicated by his next post.

Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:34 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:24 am
cat wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:48 am
Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:16 pm Cat, Samusamu, syn, and Mewtini please explain yourselves
I Refuse.
you're the only person in this town that I respect
this a meme or like....?
Kyle makes an appearance. It is nothing.

Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:02 pm
mewtini wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:45 am (my two cents is that i also don’t entirely jam with the playstyle, but i’m very hesitant to just call unfamiliar playstyles scummy esp in a new group; noting here that i’m a little frustrated by alison characterizing my “i don’t do hard scumreads d1” as a hedge + that she seemingly asked a question in the hopes of receiving a specific answer?)
top scum read? or is that the thing you don't do on d1???
Noting Made's treatment of mewtini. I'd still be suspicious of her if she was alive, so meh. He gives her a very generic prod.

Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:16 pm Wilgy’s iso is bad. like really really bad
I've deduced that wilgy is good. Like really really good. (also i've got Sherlock on in the background as I type this up and Martin Freeman just said the word "deduce" at the exact moment I typed it. It's a Christmas miracle.)

Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:25 pm [VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine feels like a more intentional cat, but somehow more airry
If this is how Made treated his teammate on Day 1 I will be very surprised.

Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:57 pm may it please the court:

made
sig
syn
kyle
sloonei

GS
mew
cat

alison
wilgy
samu
Day 1 reads. Alison was town and I am inclined to say that each of the other two in the bottom tier are as well. Grand Scheme is the only living player left in the middle tier. I'm not sure how Made would be inclined to classify his teammates here, but I think it's evident he's not trying to bus. He may have been inclined to at least separate his teammates, in which case the Schemer is the obvious odd man out.

If Made wanted to list both of his teammates in the top tier, then we're probably looking at a sig + kyle team. It ain't me and I'm fairly sure after yesterday that it ain't Syn either. (More on that later in this ISO, I'm getting ahead of myself!)
Oh his very next post points out that Falcon/Marmot is absent both from the list and the game at this point. I cannot read much into their absence from the list: on the one hand, Made probably would be less likely to forget to include his absentee teammate in a list of reads, but on the other his acknowledgment that he forgot could also be indicative of a partnership, or the omission could be intentional. Gun to my head, I'll read Marmot as town by omission, but I'm not taking that to the bank or anywhere else, even.

Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:12 pm
Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:57 pm may it please the court:

made
syn
kyle
sig
sloonei

GS
alison
mew
cat

wilgy
samu
iso'd alison and updated

cat alison interactions look good, alison sig interactions look bad.
sig wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:02 pm [VOTE: Alison ] aubergine

This doesn't seem like your civ game st all. I don't think your vote on me is genuine. In fact you were taking advantage of samu vote to try and get a wagon started.
which post looks different? what are your reads generally?
Made ISOs Alison and bumps her up to the middle tier. But he makes the weird point that "alison sig interactions look bad." This means absolutely nothing since Alison is town and Made knows it. This is the first time in the game that Made has suggested any sort of negative stance adjacent to sig.
He asks him a follow-up question to a point he raised about Alison. It tells me nothing.

Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:07 pm Mr. Sloonei, what's ur take on Syn?

Made wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:14 pm Ms. Syn same question but for sloonei.
Made went to some length to try to shade both Syn and I. Later on there was an implication that we could be partnered, but he also emphasized that we were independently suspicious. If he pushed harder on the angle of us being partners then I would read this less in syn's favor. But instead Made tried to push Syn and I both in the same vein that he pushed Wilgy. I highly highly doubt that Made prioritized pushing me along with his two teammates. I also think it would be a bit silly if he pushed two civilians and one teammate in the same exact manner, especially since there was relatively little prompting to suspect either of Syn or Wilgy on Day 2. He did that on his own, and I think his intentions were uncomplicated: get one of us mischopped. Just look at his more detailed Day 2 reads list:
Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:10 pm
~Reading Rainbow~
civvie

Made is town

mew reads like a civvie whose out of element but doesn't force the "hey guise i don't know what's going on!?". Her end of day looks genuine

The Marmot recap pretty much follows my thinking beat for beat. wifom on the coal pt2 feels like a trap worth avoiding for now

Grand Scheme is a green utilitarian, and his rhymes are as fun as baseball is american.

Kyle doesn't feel like he's really pushing things in any direction. His post felt fluffy in thread on first read, but his iso doesn't. plus i love kyle <3

ehhhhh

sig's mechanic talk was kinda irrelevant, but in a civvie way. His alison vote looked weird, but im vibing with him today

samu looked worst for not moving things yesterday, but i like his pushes today

bad

sloonei insist that samu is obv town because and then argues i'm bad because and then argues mewtini is bad because all of it feels forced

syn's end of day looks AWFUL. if wilgy is bad then syn is the teammate.

wilgy's talk looked bad yesterday, EOD vote around him look bad, silence today looks bad. iunnlikeem

knowing [VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine's alignment feels like it gives us the most information

thoughts?
The three "bad" reads were a major part of my case against Made. The bad reads are bad. Syn is town. Wilgy is town. I am comfortable moving forward with each of these reads. Samu is also town. There's three. Yay.

Made has sig in the "ehhh" category, but his read struggles to actually commit to anything unfavorable ("kinda irrelevant, but in a civvie way" [What?] "alison vote looked weird, but im vibing with him"). This reads like a town read that is arbitrarily placed outside of the section for town reads. Not a good look for sig.

The read on Kyle is distinctly more negative than the read on sig. It is jarring to see them placed in the order they are. I'll call that a good look for Kyle.

Made has Grand Scheme as his third highest town read. That does not compute. That doesn't even come close to computing. Damn. I shouldn't have focused so much on the bad reads. The "civvie" reads are even worse. I would have liked to make Made expand on this read, because... like, what on earth has Grand Scheme done to earn any sort of town read, let alone this third from the top placement?
Oh by the way, did I mention that the top two town reads are mewtini and Marmot? Granted, mewtini is now confirmed town, but I struggle to see what she did in her time here to earn Top Town Read status (and this point is why I was confident she was partnered with Made, mistakenly). Marmot as the second top town read is not as outrageous, but still something that seems far-fetched, especially given that Made was lamenting the slot's absence the previous day.
I think the absence of convincing top town reads is more to do with Made's insistence on keeping Samu and I (the two most obvious townies in the game, if I may say so) down low on the list. Grand Scheme and Sig are the two names that stand out most: sig because he is placed lower on the list than he should be based on Made's own words, and Grand Scheme because Made has no words to say about him.
Based purely on this list, I'd name Marmot as a more likely suspect than Kyle. I think if Made wants to town-read his partner Kyle here, he can do so without this level of shade.

Re-reading the next section of posts where Made and I argue about his reads, I'm realizing he actually has a lot more to say about Wilgy than Syn. He has relatively little say about Syn, and most of it actually is in conjunction with mentions of my name. So maybe this is an effort on Made's part to tie me to his partner in the event that Syn goes down. But doing that would require Syn to be in the line of fire, which he is not. I'm still inclined to call Syn town.
The aggression of his push on wilgy is way too much to be bussing.

Spoiler: show
Made wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:31 pm
sig wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:28 pm I'm like 60/40 on Made, I do think Sloonie comes off alot better in their discussion and made does look worse, but I'm also very confident in my Syn read.

I also like how confident you are on this, but I'm waffling.

My biggest issues with Made stem from the fact he did seem a bit opportunistic with Samu and how he waffled on me. Plus he didn't respond to Sloonie's case very well.
What do you think of my reasoning for sloonei, specifically his reads of mew and me?
Sig starts acknowledging that Made is a suspect. Made asks sig a generic question. beep boop. This tells me nothing.

And that's the end of it.

Samu
Wilgy
Syn
Kyle
Marmot
Grand Scheme
sig

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:57 am Sig & Made

Spoiler: show
sig wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:48 pm Also I'll be back to reevaluate and take a deeper look at samu after work today.

Other random thoughts

Made may be trying to budd/pocket me, not a fan of this slight ping.

Wilgy makes an interesting point without straying to deep down the meta hole i think we can accurately say at least one mafia member is a TS native. Still iffy on him.

I don't think sloonie is on samu team that's mainly gut though.
"Made may be trying to pocket me" which is an alleged ping. Keeps the door open to arbitrary Wilgy suspicion. Sloonei and Samu are not partners. Cool. How does this Made read progress?

Spoiler: show
sig wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:54 am Mew, made and sloonie look good right now,

LC is slanking a bit and that pings me
Made looks good. Okay. Why? Made's most recent posts before this one were pushes on cat and samu. I think neither looked good.

Spoiler: show
sig wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:24 pm
Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:12 pm
Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:57 pm may it please the court:

made
syn
kyle
sig
sloonei

GS
alison
mew
cat

wilgy
samu
iso'd alison and updated

cat alison interactions look good, alison sig interactions look bad.
sig wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:02 pm [VOTE: Alison ] aubergine

This doesn't seem like your civ game st all. I don't think your vote on me is genuine. In fact you were taking advantage of samu vote to try and get a wagon started.
which post looks different? what are your reads generally?
Someone else also said this. But she's not attempting to be a town leader really and even more damning is the lack of any desire to talk mechanics.

She's also being alot more nitpicky and only seems to be focusing in on me which isn't what I saw from previous games from her.
Sig responds to Made's generic prod RE: Alison with a decidedly negative stance. Okay.

Spoiler: show
sig wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:27 pm Quick read list atm in no order

Town
Sloonie
Lc
Mew

Town lean
Made
Samu
Syn

Null
Falcon

Scum lean
Kyle
Wilgy
Cat

Scum
Alison
Made is a "town lean" with Samu and Syn. Noting that Long Scheme is a top town read for sig as well. What is happening here?
"Scum leans" are Kyle, wilgy, and cat. That wilgy read is dubious, as always. I don't know why the Kyle read exists.

Spoiler: show
sig wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:00 pm I'm leery of a Made lynch I'll review the cases today but he seems to be playing within his normal civ meta.

sig wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:01 pm I'd say he'd be a good present target also (Made) but jd prefer to lynch syn/wilgy since if ones mafia I'm certain they both are
I was pleading with everyone to acknowledge my Made case and it finally started to gain traction. Sig didn't seem to like that, but he can't bring himself to outright defend Made. I have no idea why he thinks Made would be better suited for a shot-in-the-dark nightkill than a chop.

Spoiler: show
sig wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:37 pm Made would probably be my secondary counterwagon to Syn, Wilgy should only be lynched/shot if Syn is mafia. Otherwise alot of the reasoning for me would be gone.

Now I'd prefer to lynch Syn for the shot dynamics. If Syn is civ shoot Made. If Syn is mafia shoot Wilgy. Either way I'd say we'd be down 1-2 mafia members. Since I don't see a world where all 3 are civs based off the cases made.
Made is distinctly not Sig's priority. Noted.

Spoiler: show
sig wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:13 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:07 pm
sig wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:41 pm Also I know it's the holiday, but the thread is very stagnate. Which makes me wonder if we're going in the complete wrong direction here.
Talk about made.
I'm torn. So, I think you raised some good points I especially find the mew/made connection a bit weird. But he's had the same views as I do with Wilgy and Samu which earns him some town points.

From a meta view there isn't alot to go on for me he's always been harder for me to get an angle on, but as far as what I've seen it seems more in line with his civ game.

The biggest thing that's making me a bitch sketchy is how his opinion on me evolved, it seems like he was buddying me D1, then when I mentioned I was pinged a bit he suddenly finds me more scummy.
I disliked this post and it was where I really started to suspect a sig/made pairing. Sig's hesitance is right there on his face, and the point he chooses to emphasize ("the mew/made connection") was hardly a primary piece of my argument against Made and, as we now know, it is one that obviously would have given him a nice easy scapegoat today in the aftermath of Made's flip.
I was also skeptical of sig's citation of Made's meta. It's been a while since Made played. I have a hard time buying that sig has a distinct working memory of the differences between Made's town/mafia metas.

Spoiler: show
sig wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:15 pm I also disagree with you on Syn, regardless of anything else that's scummy.

Honestly the biggest reason I'd switch to Made is since you're so sure of it and i've basically got you down as a lock civ

sig wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:15 pm Okay, Imma reread the entire Sloonie vs Made thing real fast
First, sig continues to push Syn while all of this is happening.
Second, Sig has reluctantly come along to offer the most tentative possible support of the Made case on the basis of my confidence in the read. No mention of specific points (such as the mew/made connection, for instance), just citation of my read. But then, after that, he says he'll go and read the case. Which... if he hasn't done that yet then why's he agreeing with aspects of it? Bad post from sig.

Spoiler: show
sig wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:28 pm I'm like 60/40 on Made, I do think Sloonie comes off alot better in their discussion and made does look worse, but I'm also very confident in my Syn read.

I also like how confident you are on this, but I'm waffling.

My biggest issues with Made stem from the fact he did seem a bit opportunistic with Samu and how he waffled on me. Plus he didn't respond to Sloonie's case very well.
Sig continues to drag his feet toward Made's inevitable chop. But he won't let go of Syn.
His "biggest issue" with Made has changed now to his treatment of Samu. The connection to mewtini is not mentioned. This feels like a false progression.

Spoiler: show
sig wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:47 pm So did a quick reread of made, since I'm aware the clock is running out.

I'm still worried this could be town/town, at the same time
1. i don't see sloonie or samu dropping this so it needs to be resolved and we still can loose a civ and be fine number wise.
2. Sloonie is a solid town read and samu is a moderate town read, so I don't think this is a case of mafia trying to redirect onto made
3. The more I read over Made day 1 action the less I like it specifically how he seemed to partly use me as a reason to vote for samu and my argument around mechanjc but then dropped it d2 and said that didn't make me seem civil. I don't see how that can coexist if he was scum reading samu for opposing my shot idea/me. But then also doesn't clear me for it.
Made's chop is inevitable at this point. Sig says so himself. This feels a bit more strained than it should: I don't really buy it at all when Sig says that his Syn suspicion is as strong or stronger than the argument against Made. By his own admission, the Syn case is flawed, but he refuses to let go of it for no particular reason.

Spoiler: show
sig wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:26 pm [VOTE: made] aubergine

I'm not really sold on this lynch tbh, not very confident he's gonna flip mafia but. There's enough that I do see the case sloonie made and I do trust him totally. We also do need to resolve it and can't really trust the gift to 100% go to either him or syn.

I do think we should shoot syn though.
He votes for Made ~30 minutes before EoD. I still feel like he's straining here. This is not the vote he wants to cast (he spends too much time justifying the vote in ways that don't actually involve Made), but he has no other choice.

At this point I will be surprised if sig is town.

Sloonei thoughts about sig/made etc. Nobody can refute this to sloonei.

Samusamu wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 6:05 am i noddle everytime i read slooney, my screenshots of yesterday reread are the same than he mention.

And our list are pretty similar but my poe was something like.

Grand scheme
Kyle
Marmot
Sig.

Well, i screenshot the same post of gs saying that made was town but skipped the other part that slooney mention. That makes me like

@Syn @DrWilgy and the rest of the town.

If sig flips scum and we shoot in the poe the game prob is won by mechanics.

So today have to be consensus with the names.

It is okey for everybody

Me supporting from the very beggining the lynch on sig.

Syn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:15 pm
Samusamu wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 6:05 am i noddle everytime i read slooney, my screenshots of yesterday reread are the same than he mention.

And our list are pretty similar but my poe was something like.

Grand scheme
Kyle
Marmot
Sig.

Well, i screenshot the same post of gs saying that made was town but skipped the other part that slooney mention. That makes me like

@Syn @DrWilgy and the rest of the town.

If sig flips scum and we shoot in the poe the game prob is won by mechanics.

So today have to be consensus with the names.

It is okey for everybody
I have no reason to suspect Sloonei as deep woof

And honestly, there's no way I can match his WIM here, especially on phpBB

so I promise to pick the other person in Sloonei's most sus POE as my target if sig/lc flip red

SYN PROMISING to follow the sloonei poe ig sig were scum.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:11 pm Marmot's first post is his massive ketchup wall. He gives Made an early town read for Made's public lesson on coal. Not unfair.
The most substantial point RE: Made is difficult to follow:
Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:58 pm I've generally felt good about Sloonei and null on Made, but the end of this interaction is weird.

If Made doesn't believe Sloonei, normally that would mean he scumreads Sloonei.

I get that townies are far less likely to lie than wolves, but the question Sloonei asked in response is still weird. I can't put my finger on why.
It is unclear from this which of us (me or Made) Marmot says he feels "weird" about. The first line gives no indication what the source of the weirdness is. The second line would indicate Made is the weird one. The third directly states that I am the weird one.
Could you explain this response in more detail, O Christmas Marmot?

Spoiler: show
Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:03 pm Current reads

Town:
Marmot
Sig
Samusamu
Sloonei
Grand Scheme

Middling:
Mewtini
Syn
Made

Scum:
Kylemii
DrWilgy
Marmot has Made in the middle tier of his reads list, shared with Mewtini and Syn. Kyle and Wilgy are at the bottom.
Why is everyone listing Grand Scheme as a town read in all these lists?

Incidental mention of Made in a discussion with Syn about Wilgy.

Spoiler: show
Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:26 pm
Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:01 pm Also end of day is really early. the cat wagon feels under developed, and I don’t like samu’s vote there. where are people on mewtini?? Wilgy???

Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:16 pm Wilgy’s iso is bad. like really really bad

Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:25 pm [VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine feels like a more intentional cat, but somehow more airry

@Sloonei I thought this series of posts was sincere. I also think Wilgy's scum, and this is a great look for Made if I'm wrong.
Direct defense of Made when I prompted the thread for pro-Made arguments. Not the best look in the world, but he was just answering my question. But Marmot was the only one to really step up to the plate here, and I can't not give that some weight here. I'll also note that this is a different point than the one Marmot raised to give Made town credit earlier, if that means anything.

Spoiler: show
Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:08 pm Oh carp, I forgot day ended now, although my vote doesn't count anyway, so whatever

If posting is still permitted, everyone should post their targets tonight imo. My pick is Wilgy.

Also, I don't think Made is mafia, but I do generally townread the voters on his wagon (and not just because their names all start with s)
Implicit support of the Made wagon. This is more direct than sig's implicit support. I still don't love the way it looks, but if I'm comparing those two then Marmot is better. But not by a lot.

This is not a comprehensive Marmot ISO, obviously, and I don't have much of a feel for his game as a whole right now. But the Made interactions are Not So Great.

Begggining of the marmots case by sloonei.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:31 pm Kyle & Made
Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:51 pm
Made wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:34 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:24 am
cat wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:48 am
Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:16 pm Cat, Samusamu, syn, and Mewtini please explain yourselves
I Refuse.
you're the only person in this town that I respect
this a meme or like....?
I've never memed a single day in my life.
Authenticators have confirmed that this exchange exists.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:29 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:24 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:11 pm Please give me your most biased accounts of each case as you can muster and I will vote accordingly
Made is mafia. He made wilgy get coal.

amazing, what about the other two
This one too. I do not read this as Kyle trying to "change the subject" from Made or anything like that. I think he just showed up late and wanted to know what was happening.

That's it. There is nothing here. I can't really award Kyle any townie points for the content, though the lack of content might be worth something: If Made is his partner then I expect Kyle to show some nervousness or effort to save him at EoD2. He did not end up voting at all. The anti-Kyle argument is that he didn't have a way to comfortably justify a vote on a counterwagon, if one even existed by the time he arrived (i forget. was working and didn't have an eye on the poll, but it seemed made was comfortably in the lead so i wasn't worried). But I think Kyle's nonchalance is a slightly good look here. Light town read.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:37 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:28 am Samu
Wilgy
Syn
Kyle
Marmot
Grand Scheme
sig
The ordering of this list is unchanged after individual ISOs (I'm not bothering with Samu. He's town). I might separate Kyle and Marmot into separate green tiers if I want to get meticulous, but it's Christmas. Eve. I think the team could be exactly Sig + Grand Scheme, but if it's not then Marmot is my other guess.

I believe we have one mischop left by POE numbers, but things are wonky in this setup. At any rate, clearing 4 players should secure the win. If anyone objects to Samu, Wilgy, Syn, or Kyle being cleared, speak now.

Nobody talks here, i support that reads.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:50 pm Scanning Marmot's ISO in full, my critique is this: his posts fit perfectly into the agenda Made was pushing. The small size of this game would prompt the Mafia team to be aggressive (they don't need to survive for a long time. Just a couple of day phases, so I think we're more likely to see coordinated pushes in this setup than in a ~15 player game, for instance). He defends Made, he pushes hard on Wilgy and Syn with a some smaller nudges toward Kyle and Alison. I think the suspicions against Wilgy in this game have been bad, and we now know that in at least one case, they were dishonest as well. I do not think Wilgy has done anything outside of the very ordinary for him, and I actually disagree completely with Marmot's assessment of Wilgy's entrance now that I've read it. Wilgy was the victim of the most direct and widespread bandwagon of the game until Made's name was dragged up. And Made was at the forefront of the Wilgy push. So was Marmot.

sig wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:49 pm So if we assume wilgy is a civ. I'd say chances are high Marmot is a mafia member. With potentially lc. I'm not willing to reject the deep wolf argument all the way but should scout out other options first.

sig wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:50 pm Also this is a bit more mech talk. But I think it would be odd if mafia hasn't gifted themselves coal. So I'd say jt would come down between marmot/wilgy for that

More.

Samusamu wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:03 pm I'm dinning feliz navidad to everybody.

I'm most favorable to lynch sig, shoot marmot and lynch grand scheme if there is a town in the two first.

I will read calmly what u writted.

Supporting sig lynch again.

Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:53 am
sig wrote: ↑Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:24 am I'm not gonna ve around much today or this phase. Really saying I didn't respond well to the case is something I'm not a fan of just since timing wise I haven't had the well tjme.

I was town reading sloonie still want to, but seemed to be singularly focused on me and ik I'm civ.

If we want to stay within poe I'd say go for LC today shoot Marmot then give me a better chance to defend myself/dig around next day phase when I've got the time.
You have had many opportunities to defend yourself and as soon as the pressure rises on you, you claim the option to survive at all costs.

But you never shoot against marmot .

I like you but you need to be lynched today.

Me baiting sig with marmot, he let this without a reap0nse but sig tryied to pusj marmot and wilgy, but never with weight on marmot.

Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:54 am
Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:53 am
sig wrote: ↑Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:24 am I'm not gonna ve around much today or this phase. Really saying I didn't respond well to the case is something I'm not a fan of just since timing wise I haven't had the well tjme.

I was town reading sloonie still want to, but seemed to be singularly focused on me and ik I'm civ.

If we want to stay within poe I'd say go for LC today shoot Marmot then give me a better chance to defend myself/dig around next day phase when I've got the time.
You have had many opportunities to defend yourself and as soon as the pressure rises on you, you claim the option to survive at all costs.

But you never shoot against marmot .

I like you but you need to be lynched today.
You never shoot against marmot in this day phase.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:48 pm Samu, targets please.

N1 sig
N2 mewtini
N3 marmot.

Syn wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:13 pm
Samusamu wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:40 pm If you put on your silver paper hat now after so much clear evidence of the game that has been left behind and after showing that the outcome of the game is a clear victory for the town I think you would be tremendously angry as well as disappointed with the little shame you have for trolling/yolo such a clear game.

Good night and happy holidays.
this is weird hostile AtE for no reason lol why

For sure im being hostile i think u are trolling the game and that makes me angry. I have read this game on nights phases for 11 or 12 times from the beggining to the end meanwhile you have been afking and trolling when i try to get reads on you.

Syn wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:12 pm Not really buying the "Sloonei's dead so let's follow his plan to a tee, guys" idea. I think you keep giving yourself the coal and you gave yourself the shot too so you could remove the one player who had the WIM to uncover you.

Also, you're not very convincing when you package your requests with insults. Don't mind me lacking "common sense" here while I vote for you.

I'm more than comfortable sheeping Sloonei and Alison... when they're alive and can speak for themselves. Not when they've died and someone's valiantly taken up the cause and insisting we follow along blindly.

Well, i gonna have to work a little.

First of all and, what do i gain putting coal on me if i'm the last mafia?

Second i dont insult you, im feeling insulted by your lack of seriousness this game for not reading or iso anything and thinking you are doing something relevant now and not stopping trying to read what i'm saying.

Third, im not taken valiently the cause. I've been in the cause from the beggining doing accuarate pressure on sig and carring the lynch in d2 to made when if it were for sig, made or marmot you or wilgy prob were linched.

Im gonna show you some of the post, sorry if i cant put spoilers i dont have my laptop right now.

If you put on your silver paper hat now after so much clear evidence of the game that has been left behind and after showing that the outcome of the game is a clear victory for the town I think you would be tremendously angry as well as disappointed with the little shame you have for trolling/yolo such a clear game.

Good night and happy holidays.

I know that I sound imperative, but I've been seeing the result of the game clearly for days, what's more, it seemed even wrong to make sloonei have to work so hard to make something so clear visible to your eyes.

I know that being a sheep is not fun, but if you appreciate sloonei's game and all his effort to make clear the points to be followed as well as how involved he has been with the game at least respect his last guidelines.

If necessary I can build it because marmot comes before grand scheme (basically marmot agenda is the same as made/sig, while gs has weird interactions and an early impression of Made town where it rhymes and I doubt it was something dishonest), but I would appreciate if you don't make me work too much and use common sense.

Syn and Wilgy, I'm going to be blunt with you two, I don't feel like prolonging the game so I'm going to make these points clear.

Slooney is town and he has said that I am always town, the same has said Alison, two great players that have left their readings in me.

There is no sense in my interactions with sig and made from day 1 to today that suggests that I was acting or much less treating us like mafia partners.

If I need to take the interactions out I do, but it's very clear and easy to point out.

Having said that, if we stick to the poet left by Sloonei, we should lynch marmot, shoot grand scheme and that's it.

Kyle has both Sloonei and Alison townreads so he would be the last one to be checked which after re-reading the game I doubt.

For once in this game I ask both of you seriously, to read what I write and to act according to the flow of the game that is resolved since the beginning of d2 and that's why it has been so stopped and not to go to tow as until now.

No trolling no paranoias. Just use common sense and let yourself be guided by sloonei and alison in whom you have more than enough reason to think that their intentions are honest in terms of readings and results with them.

Samusamu wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 6:57 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 6:36 pm @Sloonei has died in the night and flips town. @Samusamu has received coal and their vote will not be counted.

D4 ends December 28, 5pm EST or when someone receives 4 votes.

@DrWilgy
@marmot
@Syn
@Grand Scheme
@Samusamu
@Kylemii
Can i be coaled two days in a row?

Well, yes, what a pain.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 6:36 pm @Sloonei has died in the night and flips town. @Samusamu has received coal and their vote will not be counted.

D4 ends December 28, 5pm EST or when someone receives 4 votes.

@DrWilgy
@marmot
@Syn
@Grand Scheme
@Samusamu
@Kylemii

Can i be coaled two days in a row?

Wtf? Who shoot sloney?

@DrWilgy
@Syn
@Kylemii
@Grand Scheme
Vote on marmot and shoot grand scheme.

Shoot=push

Samusamu wrote: ↑Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:53 am
sig wrote: ↑Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:24 am I'm not gonna ve around much today or this phase. Really saying I didn't respond well to the case is something I'm not a fan of just since timing wise I haven't had the well tjme.

I was town reading sloonie still want to, but seemed to be singularly focused on me and ik I'm civ.

If we want to stay within poe I'd say go for LC today shoot Marmot then give me a better chance to defend myself/dig around next day phase when I've got the time.
You have had many opportunities to defend yourself and as soon as the pressure rises on you, you claim the option to survive at all costs.

But you never shoot against marmot .

I like you but you need to be lynched today.

You never shoot against marmot in this day phase.

sig wrote: ↑Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:24 am I'm not gonna ve around much today or this phase. Really saying I didn't respond well to the case is something I'm not a fan of just since timing wise I haven't had the well tjme.

I was town reading sloonie still want to, but seemed to be singularly focused on me and ik I'm civ.

If we want to stay within poe I'd say go for LC today shoot Marmot then give me a better chance to defend myself/dig around next day phase when I've got the time.

You have had many opportunities to defend yourself and as soon as the pressure rises on you, you claim the option to survive at all costs.

But you never shoot against marmot

.

I like you but you need to be lynched today.

At this point i prefer lynching grand scheme and shooting sig.

As a xmas gift for participation for sig.

Buuut humm its okey for me if viciversa.

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