Death and Taxes: An Economics Mafia [DAY 7]

[sanmateo]

Has anyone considered that G-Man is pulling a gambit, isn't actually cursed, and is skating by on Day 1?

Why did a couple of players automatically dismiss any future suspicion of him assuming he's cursed?

this is a good point, besides can a cursed townie be any help at all town? i havent played a game with a cursed player yet

actually i did play a game with a silencer which is somewhat similar i guess?

[Golden]

I really don't understand why so many people are throwing around DDL name. I could understand if people have played a game with him before and know his tells but this is his first game here and I have no read on him.
MM out of syndicate regulas who are you getting bad vibes from?
I also agree with splints MP is acting different to the new players and might be something to keep an eye on.

this post pinged me a lot, truly. it's important to state that it's again contingent upon my town lean on DDL being accurate. to me, this post bears the appearance of a player who anticipates a lynch of DDL and a town flip. in my experience, it is relatively common for scum players to speak out against erroneous Day 1 wagons.

This I buy completely.

Also - G-Man says 'hey JJ, why so Gary Oldman?' Or is it 'why so Sirius'. Yes. Why so Sirius. Got it

linki - russti's declaration, ok, it's on.

[sanmateo]

this game has been somewhat frustrating for me, there is a bunch of players who havent posted anything game relevant and then there is some people who come in quote a post and say "yeah this is suspicious" without really explaining anything, like why???? im dumb as a fucking rock yall, help me out

so im just gonna go play video games with my little cousin and i'll come back read thru people's histories and drop a vote later on

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Thanks, Russ. This is awesome!

And I've played a game with a dog once, so that's what I know of post restrictions.

http://www.narutoforums.com/showthread. ... st51796157

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Day 1 ISO - birdwithteeth11

MovingPictures07, one might assert you've made a concerted effort here to earn Bass's early good graces without having to commit yourself to a truly positive read -- even if minor.

Yeah. That's what I got from MP's comment before this about bass. But again, only one Day 0 interaction. So not sure how concrete this is yet. I'll file it away in the ol' memory bank for later.

Unfortunately, my catch-up is going to be temporarily stalled. Will be back later to finish it.

BWT11 hasn't gotten involved yet, as he's been playing catchup while otherwise engaged. that's cool, RL happens. i highlight the post above because it's the only one so far in which he has made a comment about a game-relevant discussion. he seconds a very early poo fling i directed against MP. i was mostly playing the RVS game with that post, so i didn't expect it to get any support (because i had no conviction behind it myself). that said, for a player who is just reading the thread at the best pace he can, i don't think this is an alarming thing. he had a thought and put it up.

overall the most suspicious thing about this guy is that he hasn't played yet. hopefully he finds more opportunities in due time. null read.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Day 1 ISO - Black Rock

Just catching up here. You guys have been busy today.

This post is where I'm at.

I see that DDL thinks all those who've been posting tonight look like town. I disagree, but not only that, I highly doubt that none of the mafia are talking. I just can't see that being the case. Honestly, I see MP's over-helpful behavior as suspicious. I know we have a lot of new players and he wants to be helpful, but there's just something fishy about it.

I really don't see MP as being overly helpful. I see it more as him excited about the new players and helping them out. I would expect this behaviour from MP and I would expect you to see this as well.

i like this post. i am glad to be able to say that when so this point BR has only made four of them. her take on MP mirrors my own. i know i don't know MP's meta here, but i know it on RYM and i think he's been entirely within believable parameters so far. what i like about BR's post most is the last bit: she doesn't merely defend MP, but she also turns it against Elo. that's a bold maneuver to take on Day 1, especially in this environment where people have stated their tendency to hesitate before making themselves noticed on Day 1. there are two stances visible in this post and i find myself agreeing with both of them right now. mind-melding.

I didn't realize I defended you. I thought I was just saying how I perceived it. I felt Elohcin was trying to blow it out of proportion which made me eye her. I guess my words could have been perceived as defending.

this post is a little less pleasing to me, just because i think the "defense" in her comments about MP before was self-evident. people were critical of MP and BR provided a reason why they shouldn't be. this could be a semantic nitpick though so i am not immediately worried.

overall i read her as more town than scum.

[Epignosis]

If you are "leaning town" on me, then wouldn't I also be misguided?

But I don't think you read me, DDL. You claim I have "very little posts." I'm assuming you mean that I have "very few posts" and not very tiny posts. I have sixteen posts of varying sizes, anyway. Your claim is that these posts contain "sharp accusations."

I hope others reread me. Do you all think I have sharp accusations? I see only one (my tenth post) that I've held onto since yesterday evening (posts 14 & 15, and now this here 17). These sharp accusation(s) (I don't see how the plural form of the word is warranted) you, DDL, chalk up to "player style." That sounds like a subtle way to dismiss my accusation of you, which is my only accusation to date.

First, don't bother arguing grammar with me. You are an English teacher, as someone said. I'm a guy who has English as a second language. So yes, I'm going to make some stupid mistakes, and I'm not even gonna bother arguing them with you because you're obviously going to win.

Ah, no.

I am not arguing grammar with you (and your English appears quite capable to me). I am arguing over the content of your posts. You said I made "sharp accusations." That means you observed more than one. I have only had one. You attributed my "sharp accusations" to how I play (which you don't know), which implies I am gunning for you just because this is what tickles my fancy.

Now, the difference between you and sanmateo is that I believe sanmateo is playing a very risky game. He is not trying to avoid looking scummy. While you have tunneled on me, he has tunneled HARD, making a lot of posts about me and attracting other people's attention. And he looks a lot more angry and emotional, like he really believes I'm mafia and wants to prove that despite the lack of arguments. So if I am to assume a scum player would try to avoid heat, then I have little reason to believe he is scum.

Without looking this up, I feel like I should win the award for getting people's attention on you, not sanmateo.

Now you, you are posting a lot less. You are also tunneling, but are making it in a way that doesn't attract much heat to you. That makes you more suspicious than sanmateo. Now, when a player makes few posts and tunnels, I see that as a scum flag, but your posts give me the impression that you are someone who values quality over quantity, and that you are using your energy in fewer posts, making the sharper accusations that I perceive. So that fits with a town character which I'm led to believe you are. That's what I meant about style.

It's so fun playing with people from another planet on the web.

See what I mean by giving yourself outs? The word "maybe" in your sentence served no purpose, as the prepositional phase ("if most of the scum is conveniently lurking") already implied it. Compare:

There's no point in talking this much if most of the scum is conveniently lurking as the townies and maybe 1-2 scum argue with each other.
There's no point in talking this much if most of the scum is conveniently lurking as the townies and 1-2 scum argue with each other.

"Maybe" (an adverb, by the way) doesn't change the meaning of the sentence at all. It's filler. However, you are now placing importance on the word, trying to get me to believe that it indicates you don't know how many Mafia are in the group, that you were just "aware of the possibility," a goal that serves no purpose if you are indeed a civilian; only Mafia would need to persuade people that they don't know how many Mafia are in the talkative crew.

That's the impression I get from your posts. Your first three, for example, reek of new guy trying hard to make it clear that he doesn't have BTSC.

So your point is that I'm mafia because I'm trying to convince people that I'm not mafia?

How does that even make sense? Yes, I've been trying to avoid making people think I'm mafia since the game started. Why wouldn't I? It's the freaking goal of the game. What did you expect me to do? Refuse to answer your posts and say "I'm a townie and townies don't need to prove anything"?

That's the beauty of Mafia. "I'm a civ, I'm a civ." Everybody will say such things. For me, the evidence lies between the lines. And what you just did with this part of your post is offer a false dilemma. Either you answer the way you did, or you refuse to answer my post. Those are the only two things you could have done.

Except they're not.

I'm already playing a risky game by calling people scummy left and right, it helps me if I at least try to make people believe I'm town. Again, why wouldn't I?

I don't think you've been calling people "scummy" left and right. I think you've been downright blendy. Posting a lot, but saying little. And yes, planting outs for yourself.

Does that work if you telegraph what your intentions are?
Is this really an attempt to get people to talk if they know you are trying to trip them up?
How do you make people talk?

This only makes sense if you read my post in a vaccum. If you looked at the rest of the conversation, you'd notice pretty much everyone was talking about their playing styles, explaining them to each other and questioning each others posts about how they were playing. And yes, I was being part of that. I suppose that's somewhat meta, since I was using a strategy and talking about it at the same time, but hey, that's how the conversation was going. It's not like there were any game events at that point to be discussed (such as votes or lynches), only people's posting styles.

But you're in a new environment. It doesn't make sense to announce what you're trying to do if you want genuine reactions. Wouldn't it make more sense to just do it and see what happens?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

G-man, cut me some slack pal! i posted a recording of myself singing terribly. i'm not all serious.

[G-Man]

Has anyone considered that G-Man is pulling a gambit, isn't actually cursed, and is skating by on Day 1?

[Golden]

I'm not impressed with MP's angle on G-Man.

What's the value of such a gambit on day one? Why would G-Man do it? Why draw attention to yourself in that way? What would it achieve? MP, what would be the value as a baddie to faking this curse on day one?

[G-Man]

G-man, cut me some slack pal! i posted a recording of myself singing terribly. i'm not all serious.

[G-Man]

[Tangrowth]

DDL, top suspect. Go.

[Tangrowth]

I'm not impressed with MP's angle on G-Man.

What's the value of such a gambit on day one? Why would G-Man do it? Why draw attention to yourself in that way? What would it achieve? MP, what would be the value as a baddie to faking this curse on day one?

Lolwut?

I even admitted I was throwing a question out there and that I had no suspicion of G-Man.

All of the questions that you're asking are WIFOM.

Why are you flinging crap in my direction with such WIFOM-filled questions?

May I direct you to how long it took Uzziah to get lynched in Biblical? I will say no more since that game is ongoing.

[Tangrowth]

I think your style and my style are very similar, from what I've seen of you, or perhaps more accurately our philosophies are very similar. I think MP makes an apt comparison.

My method is not to provide reads across everyone (say, the MP rainbow method) but it is to interrogate and ask questions where I think I see something bad, and provides reads only on these people I feel I have a read on. I don't see much value in me saying 'I get a very slight civ vibe from x', especially at this point when such a read would, I think, be meaningless.

I'll defend people when I really think they are good. I'll go after people when I think they might be bad. And I'll honestly explain my thought processes in any case. Otherwise I'll more or less ignore the rest in terms of my input into the thread. I can understand why it bothers you for now because I haven't really provided much of a read yet beyond sanmateo giving me a ping. You won't be seeing a golden who gives no reads by day three, I can assure you.

Alright, Golden. Come on. Am I bad or am I not?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Day 1 ISO - Dom

he made a post on Day 0, and i think it was before the role switch? either way, that's it. i hereby confirm that this player exists. is this degree of silence typical of him?

null read.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Day 1 ISO - Dragon D. Luffy

this one is important for obvious reasons. many view him negatively. i view him positively. let's dig in.

I'm curious too. This Day 0 has been fun, but it's hard to make reads on anyone when almost none of the posts are about the game. It's easier when everyone is accusing each other. I suppose that's what Day 1s are for.

Btw, I think it's very interesting how Jay started talking about making cases right after the second role was handed out. Which is interesting since the game was pretty much a blank state at that point. Though to be fair, he did say he had nothing at that point.

That could indicate an alignment change. If a player who has done nothing gets a new role and suddenly starts being proactive, it might mean a townie who became mafia, or vice-versa. Just a theory.

after a decent number of chatty Day 0 posts, DDL got involved with real game stuff here. i like his mindset here, even if his eventual conclusion is essentially null. he made a real observation about my behavior and expressed it. this prompted my response, and eventually a larger conversation. i had previously stated that i like to dive headfirst into Day 1 and generate mass content. and with that in mind, he very deliberately poked me. he didn't have to encourage my attention upon himself, but he did it anyway. this looks to me like a player who likes to generate reaction-based Day 1 reads, and he made his first attempt here.

The main point of this was to see your reaction, and the reaction of others to what me/you say. I usually do that by directly calling people scum, but since there was barely any evidence for that, I went for some fringe theory. Throwing an idea on the wall and seeing whether it stickes or not, and how.

Well, in a practical sense, being more proactive means you are town now, and your posting style seems to suggest that, assuming you're not faking it. Though the opposite could also be true, specially since I don't know you. Some players like to stay in the shadows when they're town.

Now, Slooney did say you always play like this, so the theory is probably moot.

when i prodded him in response to his prodding me, he confirmed my assumption. he wanted my reaction and said whatever he could to me to generate it. in this way his play reminds me a lot of my own, which is why i asserted earlier that he has played a similar game to me so far.

And I like to call people scum. Defenses are a great way to get reactions.

you've not called anyone scum. in fact, you've made assertions of scumminess but in each case offered a caveat to relieve the pressure inherent to those assertions.

ergo, you're scum.

Thing is, I don't think any of the active players are scum right now. If I had to vote right now, I'd vote for one of the inactive ones. I only see small possibilities. So I explore them since I don't have anything better. But I don't want to directly call people scum on something that is only a small possibility, at the risk of saying something stupid. When I see someone that looks more scummy than not to me, i'll point it out.

yep. again he echoes my own sentiments. he engaged the active players because they were there to be engaged. and after having done so, he didn't feel the inclination to carry on suspecting any of us. my feelings were much the same in that regard. and that's why we've both been vocal since that point about the importance of expanding the continuing discussion beyond just the 5 players who kickstarted the game.

Anyway, my read on sanmateo, since it's the only one I haven't read yet.

The fact that he is being active and suspecting of me is a good thing, as opposed to what I said about MP. But I don't like how he is tunneling on me hard. I've hardly seen him talking about anyone else, and I'd like to see his opinions on other people. It gives me some scum deja-vus. May be a townie whos got a strong belief that I'm scum and wants to pursue that, or may be a scummy wanting to tunnel on the resident "townie who talks a lot" so he can fill his post quota. Either way, considering multiple people seem to be suspecting him, his possible scum strategy doesn't seem to be working.

Anyway, I like what Golden said about wanting other people to talk. Including we 4 newbies and MP, only 5 people have talked this night. The other 14 (including Golden who only showed up now) have been silent. Where are the others? There's no point in talking this much if most of the scum is conveniently lurking as the townies and maybe 1-2 scum argue with each other.

this post drew the ire of Epignosis and perhaps others, particularly for the second "paragraph". here's why i don't agree with the negative assessment: detractors are focusing on the "maybe 1-2 scum" bit instead of the larger point being made. DDL is suggesting that regardless of the alignments of 5 players being discussed, it is bad for town for those players to be the sole focus of everyone else. and that's absolutely correct. even if he were to narrow his focus to that pool of 5 as Epi suggested he should have, he'd then be ignoring the vast majority of the player population. he'd have a decent shot at 1 scum that might not even be there in that pool of 5 and no chance at reading any other scum outside the pool. that's not a good idea and DDL recognized that.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 55#p143155 -- here's the post where he provides reads of numerous players

NOTE: if you are suspicious of DDL, then i think you are obligated to look at this post and decide whether he is fabricating reads or perhaps you've misjudged.. this is his substantive post so far, and to ignore it as one of his detractors is lazy at best or scummy at worst. my take:

he has given real stances and not waffled around on the fence. he is suspicious of acrosstheaether, Elo, and finger. he leans town on his nemesis Epignosis. he leans town on G-man. he leans strongly town on me. he is inviting the wrath of some players and inherently narrowing the eyes of others (mostly Epi by calling him a town read). if he is scum, then we must collectively acknowledge that he has deliberately been treading very dangerously throughout the entirety of Day 1 so far. and in this post, he increases the danger of his playstyle a decent amount further. moreover, i don't think his reads here smell unfair or underdeveloped. within the context of Day 1 content which is always a bit limited, he has taken stances where he can. and where he can't he hasn't. that's townie behavior imo.

otherwise his posts continue to feature mostly self-defense against a constant attack from essentially all sides. and i like his candor and content in those defenses.

overall i read him more town than scum.

[Golden]

So, your answer is that G-Man would do it for the wifom?

[Epignosis]

Guys, one question, how can I change the word that appears under my username? The one that's "patsy", right now?

Post more.

[birdwithteeth11]

Alright. I think I'm caught up for now.

- So far, I feel like all the new people who are posting a lot is refreshing, but I feel weighed down by it. In that, given they're new and posting a lot, it's hard for me to wrap my head around anything completely yet. Especially since it's only Day 1 and I'm trying to do this while multitasking.

- I have yet to see anything that really piques my interest. Or is worthy of me fully commenting on. The only thing of note to me so far is Epig calling out Luffy for giving himself outs with some of the opinions/statements he's made so far. And he's coming off to me as trying really hard to blend in. But again, only a Day 1 read.

- To say I've been extremely busy is an understatement. 3 of the last 4 weeks I've worked 6 days, I work 6 days this week, and will be working 6 next week. I have very little time and energy for mafia right now, but the theme of the game interested me enough to make my break much shorter than I thought it would be. When something happens that I think is a bigger deal than what I've seen, I'll jump in a bit more. But for now, I'll at least do enough to keep up and post any current thoughts I have.

Linki: Of course, there's 5 new posts in the time it took for me to type that too. Oh well.

[Tangrowth]

So, your answer is that G-Man would do it for the wifom?

I'm not saying why G-Man would do it. There is incentive for him to fake it; there is incentive to act almost any possible way in a mafia game. I was merely throwing out a possibility precisely because people were willing to give him a Day 1 pass automatically.

I often struggle to get past Day 1. If I was mafia and knew I could get past mafia by coming up with a fake curse, then shrug it off with a viable explanation thereafter, why wouldn't I do it?

That said, I don't believe that's what G-Man did. Occam's razor suggests he actually is cursed. But I have no opinion on the matter. I don't really know.

I find it odd you're harping on one of the absolute least important posts I've made in this thread, especially since I followed up that post with what I thought was a reasonable explanation of my non-suspicion of G-Man.

[Tangrowth]

I could get past Day 1* not mafia, lol

[Epignosis]

Anyway, my read on sanmateo, since it's the only one I haven't read yet.

The fact that he is being active and suspecting of me is a good thing, as opposed to what I said about MP. But I don't like how he is tunneling on me hard. I've hardly seen him talking about anyone else, and I'd like to see his opinions on other people. It gives me some scum deja-vus. May be a townie whos got a strong belief that I'm scum and wants to pursue that, or may be a scummy wanting to tunnel on the resident "townie who talks a lot" so he can fill his post quota. Either way, considering multiple people seem to be suspecting him, his possible scum strategy doesn't seem to be working.

Anyway, I like what Golden said about wanting other people to talk. Including we 4 newbies and MP, only 5 people have talked this night. The other 14 (including Golden who only showed up now) have been silent. Where are the others? There's no point in talking this much if most of the scum is conveniently lurking as the townies and maybe 1-2 scum argue with each other.

this post drew the ire of Epignosis and perhaps others, particularly for the second "paragraph". here's why i don't agree with the negative assessment: detractors are focusing on the "maybe 1-2 scum" bit instead of the larger point being made. DDL is suggesting that regardless of the alignments of 5 players being discussed, it is bad for town for those players to be the sole focus of everyone else. and that's absolutely correct. even if he were to narrow his focus to that pool of 5 as Epi suggested he should have, he'd then be ignoring the vast majority of the player population. he'd have a decent shot at 1 scum that might not even be there in that pool of 5 and no chance at reading any other scum outside the pool. that's not a good idea and DDL recognized that.

I didn't suggest that DDL should have done any such thing. Please don't twist what I said.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Epi, imma reply to your latest posts tomorrow. I gotta go sleep too.

DDL, top suspect. Go.

Golden. For reasons already stated. I don't like how is alleged meta is one of little involvement with the game. But I'd like to see other people's confirmations that this is indeed his meta, and that he doesn't normally engage people. I think Turnip would be able to answer that if he showed up. But if people tell me that Golden is usually more pro-active, then we have a problem.

(dis)honorable mention to acrosstheater, whose activity has been limited to say "good point" to someone else's scumread. Seriously, if she doesn't post for the rest of the phase, that will raise a pretty big scum flag for me.

[Tangrowth]

I think Golden's description of his meta is somewhat inaccurate, but that's just me. I agree that he doesn't do lists or anything like that, but I do think he engages multiple players more than he lets on; other than that, it seems accurate from what I've seen.

That said, I don't understand why a mafia Golden would fail to meet his meta.

I think his reasons for his somewhat subdued play so far are legit; surely there are others that have contributed less than he has.

Nonetheless, I can't help but doubt him at the moment.

[Epignosis]

I think Golden's description of his meta is somewhat inaccurate, but that's just me. I agree that he doesn't do lists or anything like that, but I do think he engages multiple players more than he lets on; other than that, it seems accurate from what I've seen.

That said, I don't understand why a mafia Golden would fail to meet his meta.

I think his reasons for his somewhat subdued play so far are legit; surely there are others that have contributed less than he has.

Nonetheless, I can't help but doubt him at the moment.

My biggest problem with you is that I've been gunning for DDL hard and you haven't said a word about it: Not a thing that I've noticed beyond a vague generality in your "rainbow post" (which looked more like a sack of shit than a rainbow, but carry on).

[Marmot]

- I have yet to see anything that really piques my interest. Or is worthy of me fully commenting on. The only thing of note to me so far is Epig calling out Luffy for giving himself outs with some of the opinions/statements he's made so far. And he's coming off to me as trying really hard to blend in. But again, only a Day 1 read.

Who is trying really hard to blend in? Epignosis or Dragon D. Luffy?

[Golden]

I find it odd you're harping on one of the absolute least important posts I've made in this thread, especially since I followed up that post with what I thought was a reasonable explanation of my non-suspicion of G-Man.

I find it odd that I make one single post about it and you say I'm 'flinging crap', and after two posts I'm 'harping on'....

Now this is what I'm talking about.

Yes MP, I think you sound bad right now. Roger Rabbit comes to mind.

DDL - twice you've now misrepresented my own words on my meta. Makes me look at you.

[Marmot]

So, your answer is that G-Man would do it for the wifom?

I'm not saying why G-Man would do it. There is incentive for him to fake it; there is incentive to act almost any possible way in a mafia game. I was merely throwing out a possibility precisely because people were willing to give him a Day 1 pass automatically.

I often struggle to get past Day 1. If I was mafia and knew I could get past mafia by coming up with a fake curse, then shrug it off with a viable explanation thereafter, why wouldn't I do it?

That said, I don't believe that's what G-Man did. Occam's razor suggests he actually is cursed. But I have no opinion on the matter. I don't really know.

I find it odd you're harping on one of the absolute least important posts I've made in this thread, especially since I followed up that post with what I thought was a reasonable explanation of my non-suspicion of G-Man.

Why do you say it is interesting that no one else has a view on G-Man's current status (when that isn't even true) when you yourself don't have an opinion? What do you mean by interesting?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Anyway, my read on sanmateo, since it's the only one I haven't read yet.

The fact that he is being active and suspecting of me is a good thing, as opposed to what I said about MP. But I don't like how he is tunneling on me hard. I've hardly seen him talking about anyone else, and I'd like to see his opinions on other people. It gives me some scum deja-vus. May be a townie whos got a strong belief that I'm scum and wants to pursue that, or may be a scummy wanting to tunnel on the resident "townie who talks a lot" so he can fill his post quota. Either way, considering multiple people seem to be suspecting him, his possible scum strategy doesn't seem to be working.

Anyway, I like what Golden said about wanting other people to talk. Including we 4 newbies and MP, only 5 people have talked this night. The other 14 (including Golden who only showed up now) have been silent. Where are the others? There's no point in talking this much if most of the scum is conveniently lurking as the townies and maybe 1-2 scum argue with each other.

this post drew the ire of Epignosis and perhaps others, particularly for the second "paragraph". here's why i don't agree with the negative assessment: detractors are focusing on the "maybe 1-2 scum" bit instead of the larger point being made. DDL is suggesting that regardless of the alignments of 5 players being discussed, it is bad for town for those players to be the sole focus of everyone else. and that's absolutely correct. even if he were to narrow his focus to that pool of 5 as Epi suggested he should have, he'd then be ignoring the vast majority of the player population. he'd have a decent shot at 1 scum that might not even be there in that pool of 5 and no chance at reading any other scum outside the pool. that's not a good idea and DDL recognized that.

I didn't suggest that DDL should have done any such thing. Please don't twist what I said.

you suggested he should have within the context of DDL's mindset at your portrayed it. so yes, you could say that context isn't representative of your own ideal scenario. but you didn't say it then so i proceeded as i did with my commentary.

do you take any issue with my defense of DDL in general? you're his biggest detractor right now and i am probably his biggest defender. so we would apparently disagree on a lot.

[birdwithteeth11]

- I have yet to see anything that really piques my interest. Or is worthy of me fully commenting on. The only thing of note to me so far is Epig calling out Luffy for giving himself outs with some of the opinions/statements he's made so far. And he's coming off to me as trying really hard to blend in. But again, only a Day 1 read.

Who is trying really hard to blend in? Epignosis or Dragon D. Luffy?

Dragon D. Luffy

[JaggedJimmyJay]

you suggested he should have within the context of DDL's mindset at your portrayed it. so yes, you could say that context isn't representative of your own ideal scenario. but you didn't say it then so i proceeded as i did with my commentary.

do you take any issue with my defense of DDL in general? you're his biggest detractor right now and i am probably his biggest defender. so we would apparently disagree on a lot.

[/quote][/quote]

EBWOP: "at your" = "as you"

[sanmateo]

Epi, imma reply to your latest posts tomorrow. I gotta go sleep too.

DDL, top suspect. Go.

Golden. For reasons already stated. I don't like how is alleged meta is one of little involvement with the game. But I'd like to see other people's confirmations that this is indeed his meta, and that he doesn't normally engage people. I think Turnip would be able to answer that if he showed up. But if people tell me that Golden is usually more pro-active, then we have a problem.

(dis)honorable mention to acrosstheater, whose activity has been limited to say "good point" to someone else's scumread. Seriously, if she doesn't post for the rest of the phase, that will raise a pretty big scum flag for me.

can you link me to the post where you case golden? because your read list has him as town. if you can do it without insulting or saying im shit at mafia it'd be better but either way is ok

[Epignosis]

Anyway, my read on sanmateo, since it's the only one I haven't read yet.

The fact that he is being active and suspecting of me is a good thing, as opposed to what I said about MP. But I don't like how he is tunneling on me hard. I've hardly seen him talking about anyone else, and I'd like to see his opinions on other people. It gives me some scum deja-vus. May be a townie whos got a strong belief that I'm scum and wants to pursue that, or may be a scummy wanting to tunnel on the resident "townie who talks a lot" so he can fill his post quota. Either way, considering multiple people seem to be suspecting him, his possible scum strategy doesn't seem to be working.

Anyway, I like what Golden said about wanting other people to talk. Including we 4 newbies and MP, only 5 people have talked this night. The other 14 (including Golden who only showed up now) have been silent. Where are the others? There's no point in talking this much if most of the scum is conveniently lurking as the townies and maybe 1-2 scum argue with each other.

this post drew the ire of Epignosis and perhaps others, particularly for the second "paragraph". here's why i don't agree with the negative assessment: detractors are focusing on the "maybe 1-2 scum" bit instead of the larger point being made. DDL is suggesting that regardless of the alignments of 5 players being discussed, it is bad for town for those players to be the sole focus of everyone else. and that's absolutely correct. even if he were to narrow his focus to that pool of 5 as Epi suggested he should have, he'd then be ignoring the vast majority of the player population. he'd have a decent shot at 1 scum that might not even be there in that pool of 5 and no chance at reading any other scum outside the pool. that's not a good idea and DDL recognized that.

I didn't suggest that DDL should have done any such thing. Please don't twist what I said.

you suggested he should have within the context of DDL's mindset at your portrayed it. so yes, you could say that context isn't representative of your own ideal scenario. but you didn't say it then so i proceeded as i did with my commentary.

do you take any issue with my defense of DDL in general? you're his biggest detractor right now and i am probably his biggest defender. so we would apparently disagree on a lot.

My point was that DDL has said a lot that doesn't mean anything. If he really believed there were one or two "scum" in a group of five, he should have behaved appropriately.

If he didn't, then so what? Why say what he said?

Why not leave it at, "I wish others would talk more."

It's a detail that, coupled with his first three posts ("I DON'T HAVE BTSC"), makes me think he's posturing.

[Golden]

Golden. For reasons already stated. I don't like how is alleged meta is one of little involvement with the game. But I'd like to see other people's confirmations that this is indeed his meta, and that he doesn't normally engage people. I think Turnip would be able to answer that if he showed up. But if people tell me that Golden is usually more pro-active, then we have a problem.

This is just not even what I said. I don't have 'little involvement in the game' or 'normally not engage people'. Why do you keep painting me as saying 'I haven't seen anything to go after YET as me saying I don't have involvement with the game. You say I write 'stories about past games', but I ask you what you think the function of them was and you ignore me. The purpose was to demonstrate that I do engage people on day one - when I think I have a reason to think they are bad.

There is nothing I dislike more in mafia than someone flipping my words around to mean the exact opposite of what I said.

[Epignosis]

Things aren't looking good for MP.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Last post before I go to sleep. Tomorrow I'll probably only be able to show up a few hours before the phase end.

I find it odd you're harping on one of the absolute least important posts I've made in this thread, especially since I followed up that post with what I thought was a reasonable explanation of my non-suspicion of G-Man.

I find it odd that I make one single post about it and you say I'm 'flinging crap', and after two posts I'm 'harping on'....

Now this is what I'm talking about.

Yes MP, I think you sound bad right now. Roger Rabbit comes to mind.

DDL - twice you've now misrepresented my own words on my meta. Makes me look at you.

Ok, let me say what I interpreted then. You say you like to interrogate people, but only when you have a strong reason to. And that you haven't engaged with anyone in this game because nobody has been suspicious enough.

But that sounds far-fetched to me. We had like 600 posts. Are you sure there really isn't anything you think is fishy? Are you content with not contributing because you don't have a big enough suspect?

If that's your style, then I don't like it. I think it's not productive at all. Now, if that's your style every game, then I gotta admit people just have different styles from me and move on. But I fear that your style may be a little better than that. I fear that when you're town, you find something to interrogate. It's not for lack of data that you're avoiding direct discussion with players, it's for something else. Am I wrong?

[sanmateo]

I guess the difference is I'm being obviously un-TH like and Golden feels like he's trying to hide it.

I can elaborate when I get home tonight but if you're interested in looking into it just read his filter.

i get this is an Official Champion (TM) but pointing out you are deliberately not playing to your meta feels inherently suspicious to me

[Tangrowth]

I think Golden's description of his meta is somewhat inaccurate, but that's just me. I agree that he doesn't do lists or anything like that, but I do think he engages multiple players more than he lets on; other than that, it seems accurate from what I've seen.

That said, I don't understand why a mafia Golden would fail to meet his meta.

I think his reasons for his somewhat subdued play so far are legit; surely there are others that have contributed less than he has.

Nonetheless, I can't help but doubt him at the moment.

My biggest problem with you is that I've been gunning for DDL hard and you haven't said a word about it: Not a thing that I've noticed beyond a vague generality in your "rainbow post" (which looked more like a sack of shit than a rainbow, but carry on).

What do you mean I haven't said a word about it?

I feel I've been transparent with my thoughts about DDL. I still lean toward him being genuine. None of your points have persuaded me otherwise.

[Epignosis]

I think Golden's description of his meta is somewhat inaccurate, but that's just me. I agree that he doesn't do lists or anything like that, but I do think he engages multiple players more than he lets on; other than that, it seems accurate from what I've seen.

That said, I don't understand why a mafia Golden would fail to meet his meta.

I think his reasons for his somewhat subdued play so far are legit; surely there are others that have contributed less than he has.

Nonetheless, I can't help but doubt him at the moment.

My biggest problem with you is that I've been gunning for DDL hard and you haven't said a word about it: Not a thing that I've noticed beyond a vague generality in your "rainbow post" (which looked more like a sack of shit than a rainbow, but carry on).

What do you mean I haven't said a word about it?

I feel I've been transparent with my thoughts about DDL. I still lean toward him being genuine. None of your points have persuaded me otherwise.

Can you link me? I'm lazy.

[Tangrowth]

So, your answer is that G-Man would do it for the wifom?

I'm not saying why G-Man would do it. There is incentive for him to fake it; there is incentive to act almost any possible way in a mafia game. I was merely throwing out a possibility precisely because people were willing to give him a Day 1 pass automatically.

I often struggle to get past Day 1. If I was mafia and knew I could get past mafia by coming up with a fake curse, then shrug it off with a viable explanation thereafter, why wouldn't I do it?

That said, I don't believe that's what G-Man did. Occam's razor suggests he actually is cursed. But I have no opinion on the matter. I don't really know.

I find it odd you're harping on one of the absolute least important posts I've made in this thread, especially since I followed up that post with what I thought was a reasonable explanation of my non-suspicion of G-Man.

Why do you say it is interesting that no one else has a view on G-Man's current status (when that isn't even true) when you yourself don't have an opinion? What do you mean by interesting?

Sigh. I've already talked about this.

[Tangrowth]

Has anyone considered that G-Man is pulling a gambit, isn't actually cursed, and is skating by on Day 1?

Why did a couple of players automatically dismiss any future suspicion of him assuming he's cursed?

Nothing to find him suspicious of today and don't like to vote cursed players. He doesn't get a free pass the whole game though.

I don't disagree. I just was throwing it out there. I don't have any reason to suspect G-Man; I just find it interesting that people will blatantly consider a vote for someone putting themselves out there (like DDL, Jay, or myself, for example), but will not consider one for G-Man, even though we have absolutely no explanation for his behavior and he could very well be faking it.

[Tangrowth]

Anyway, my read on sanmateo, since it's the only one I haven't read yet.

The fact that he is being active and suspecting of me is a good thing, as opposed to what I said about MP. But I don't like how he is tunneling on me hard. I've hardly seen him talking about anyone else, and I'd like to see his opinions on other people. It gives me some scum deja-vus. May be a townie whos got a strong belief that I'm scum and wants to pursue that, or may be a scummy wanting to tunnel on the resident "townie who talks a lot" so he can fill his post quota. Either way, considering multiple people seem to be suspecting him, his possible scum strategy doesn't seem to be working.

Anyway, I like what Golden said about wanting other people to talk. Including we 4 newbies and MP, only 5 people have talked this night. The other 14 (including Golden who only showed up now) have been silent. Where are the others? There's no point in talking this much if most of the scum is conveniently lurking as the townies and maybe 1-2 scum argue with each other.

this post drew the ire of Epignosis and perhaps others, particularly for the second "paragraph". here's why i don't agree with the negative assessment: detractors are focusing on the "maybe 1-2 scum" bit instead of the larger point being made. DDL is suggesting that regardless of the alignments of 5 players being discussed, it is bad for town for those players to be the sole focus of everyone else. and that's absolutely correct. even if he were to narrow his focus to that pool of 5 as Epi suggested he should have, he'd then be ignoring the vast majority of the player population. he'd have a decent shot at 1 scum that might not even be there in that pool of 5 and no chance at reading any other scum outside the pool. that's not a good idea and DDL recognized that.

I didn't suggest that DDL should have done any such thing. Please don't twist what I said.

you suggested he should have within the context of DDL's mindset at your portrayed it. so yes, you could say that context isn't representative of your own ideal scenario. but you didn't say it then so i proceeded as i did with my commentary.

do you take any issue with my defense of DDL in general? you're his biggest detractor right now and i am probably his biggest defender. so we would apparently disagree on a lot.

You act as though I haven't been defending him constantly.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Day 1 ISO - Elohcin

I see that DDL thinks all those who've been posting tonight look like town. I disagree, but not only that, I highly doubt that none of the mafia are talking. I just can't see that being the case. Honestly, I see MP's over-helpful behavior as suspicious. I know we have a lot of new players and he wants to be helpful, but there's just something fishy about it.

this is one of the earlier posts which i think promoted a narrowed discussion focused upon the 5 most active players. i don't like that at all. i do think it's plausible for a townie to own this mindset so i won't automatically assume mafia, but it's a markdown. i also don't like vague caveats like "there's just something fishy about it". that's terminology employed in fake reads more often than the mean.

alright....bedtime for me. I am hoping I don't have 10 pages to catch up on when I wake up

linki: he had to answer every question that any of the new-to-the-syndicates asked - even the ones directly asked to the hosts.

linki with MP. I like your answers They do make me feel better. When I said I couldn't put my finger on it, its b/c I felt it could go either way. You seem to be a much more cheerful player and that scared me a bit, sorry. But I thought, maybe it's just b/c we have new players. But then I remembered that you took some time away from Mafia (or now I know you took time away from the syndicate) and I thought....maybe his supportive, helpful, cheerful behavior can be explained by him being excited to be back playing again. And, I think that must be it. When I called you a selfish player I didn't mean anything mean by it Thank you for not finding offense. You're a stand-up dude. For example, I would say Epi is a selfish player. He will act as he wishes no mater what others think. You were like that too imo, just not AS selfish as Epi. Does that make sense?

NOW, I am off to bed.

AHH, linki linki linki. Hey G, you know peewee is on netflix? Haha, my kids find it pretty hilarious

the tone of this post unnerves me. after leveling the vague accusation against MP and receiving a response, this very cordial concession is striking. every thought she expresses is tempered by a "but..." caveat, and it strikes me as a belabored effort to explain a rather frivolous thing. people who know Elo better than i know her might be able to lend insight here about her manner of communicating. does this post seem typical of her to any of you, specifically in terms of tone?

I think Dragon is bad news. He's leaving himself little outs that he can use later.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 76#p142976

Good point.

I thought this could be restated again.

okay. why? i didn't like "good point" and i don't like this either. it's okay to be suspicious of someone, and it's okay to agree with a case presented by another player. but i need to know why those stances are being taken. such vague plantings of flags in camps is inherently suspicious to me.

I don't know about you, but I think Elo is civ civ civ hehe

Anyway, I am leaning civ on Epi, Golden, MM, Splints, and Jimmy. I am not sure about San, Sloo, DDL, MP, and BR.

i like the distinct stances, but i still don't really know why these reads exist. what makes you feel the way you feel about these players?

overall i read Elo as more scum than town.

[Tangrowth]

Things aren't looking good for MP.

How?

Like every other Day 1? What a surprise.

[Epignosis]

Anyway, my read on sanmateo, since it's the only one I haven't read yet.

The fact that he is being active and suspecting of me is a good thing, as opposed to what I said about MP. But I don't like how he is tunneling on me hard. I've hardly seen him talking about anyone else, and I'd like to see his opinions on other people. It gives me some scum deja-vus. May be a townie whos got a strong belief that I'm scum and wants to pursue that, or may be a scummy wanting to tunnel on the resident "townie who talks a lot" so he can fill his post quota. Either way, considering multiple people seem to be suspecting him, his possible scum strategy doesn't seem to be working.

Anyway, I like what Golden said about wanting other people to talk. Including we 4 newbies and MP, only 5 people have talked this night. The other 14 (including Golden who only showed up now) have been silent. Where are the others? There's no point in talking this much if most of the scum is conveniently lurking as the townies and maybe 1-2 scum argue with each other.

this post drew the ire of Epignosis and perhaps others, particularly for the second "paragraph". here's why i don't agree with the negative assessment: detractors are focusing on the "maybe 1-2 scum" bit instead of the larger point being made. DDL is suggesting that regardless of the alignments of 5 players being discussed, it is bad for town for those players to be the sole focus of everyone else. and that's absolutely correct. even if he were to narrow his focus to that pool of 5 as Epi suggested he should have, he'd then be ignoring the vast majority of the player population. he'd have a decent shot at 1 scum that might not even be there in that pool of 5 and no chance at reading any other scum outside the pool. that's not a good idea and DDL recognized that.

I didn't suggest that DDL should have done any such thing. Please don't twist what I said.

you suggested he should have within the context of DDL's mindset at your portrayed it. so yes, you could say that context isn't representative of your own ideal scenario. but you didn't say it then so i proceeded as i did with my commentary.

do you take any issue with my defense of DDL in general? you're his biggest detractor right now and i am probably his biggest defender. so we would apparently disagree on a lot.

You act as though I haven't been defending him constantly.

[Marmot]

Has anyone considered that G-Man is pulling a gambit, isn't actually cursed, and is skating by on Day 1?

Why did a couple of players automatically dismiss any future suspicion of him assuming he's cursed?

Nothing to find him suspicious of today and don't like to vote cursed players. He doesn't get a free pass the whole game though.

I don't disagree. I just was throwing it out there. I don't have any reason to suspect G-Man; I just find it interesting that people will blatantly consider a vote for someone putting themselves out there (like DDL, Jay, or myself, for example), but will not consider one for G-Man, even though we have absolutely no explanation for his behavior and he could very well be faking it.

Yes, that is the post I was referring to where you called it interesting.

[Marmot]

Things aren't looking good for MP.

How?

Like every other Day 1? What a surprise.

I always get lynched on either Day 1 or Day 7.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You act as though I haven't been defending him constantly.

you're right, you've defended him plenty. we can co-chair the defense of DDL committee.

[Tangrowth]

What do you mean I haven't said a word about it?

I feel I've been transparent with my thoughts about DDL. I still lean toward him being genuine. None of your points have persuaded me otherwise.

Can you link me? I'm lazy.

You mean to a specific instance? It's possible you've misunderstood me. I have not addressed your comments specifically, but whenever I have stated my thoughts on players, I believe I have been transparent in my slight civilian read of him.

I have been mulling over your posts as you've made them, but as of now, I haven't felt I've had anything to contribute.

[Epignosis]

Things aren't looking good for MP.

How?

Like every other Day 1? What a surprise.

I noticed you were responding to people in rapid succession. I've been wanting to test this with you when we were both online at the same time. So I posted what I did to see how long it would take you to respond to me.

It took you almost twenty minutes.

And no, you haven't commented on my DDL suspicion. You talked about DDL. But not my points against him. Tsk tsk.

Why did it take you twenty minutes to get back to me when I threw a curveball at you?

Were you making a sandwich? Taking a shit? We're all friends here.

[Black Rock]

Just catching up.

Has anyone considered that G-Man is pulling a gambit, isn't actually cursed, and is skating by on Day 1?

Why did a couple of players automatically dismiss any future suspicion of him assuming he's cursed?

I have been bothered by this. I can't see anyone else cursed for it to be a poll option. I have never seen Gman play this sort of Gambit. So I am going to believe him for now.