Death and Taxes: An Economics Mafia [DAY 7]

[Sloonei]

@metalmarsh I dig it, I've expressed the same issue and concern for myself from the other side of it. I need to simultaneously discern who individual players are on top of which ones are lying. It's not so easy and I appreciate any effort to fix this.

[Marmot]

Why are people narrowing their votes to just me, bass or MP?

There is still the opportunity to take out someone else if you think they are bad.

So if you are bad, we are better off voting off another player we think is bad instead?

No thanks.

[Sloonei]

Why are people narrowing their votes to just me, bass or MP?

There is still the opportunity to take out someone else if you think they are bad.

if this in reference to my post, that is in no way how i wished to be interpreted. I was just comparing the case of Bass to the other vote-recipients, who I see as the current leaders in the tally. Everyone is still a suspect, hence hanging on to my vote, I was more just making a topical remark about the state of the thread.

[thellama73]

Hostly reminder: The poll ends in 63 minutes.

[G-Man]

Golden, Epignosis, and MovingPictures are waffling.

???

[Marmot]

Hostly reminder: The poll ends in 63 minutes.

73?

[thellama73]

Hostly reminder: The poll ends in 63 minutes.

73?

thellama73

[G-Man]

[Marmot]

Golden, Epignosis, and MovingPictures are waffling.

???

Oh I see, you cannot decide who to vote between those three players.

[Marmot]

Hostly reminder: The poll ends in 63 minutes.

73?

thellama73

73 is also a prime number.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

With those walls of texts out of the way, let me get to the last one:

You say I write 'stories about past games', but I ask you what you think the function of them was and you ignore me.

First of all, sorry for not answering that earlier. I thought it was a mostly rethorical question, and didn't put much importance on it because it was just one of the various examples I was using to build my case that you were not being much productive.

As for the answer, the function of that was that you wanted to show examples of your playstyle to reply to Turnip's statement that you are off-meta. Not that I actually buy it though. I'll elaborate below.

DDL - I have a reputation for being one of the best baddie hunters around. You haven't seen me play yet, so I don't know why you would judge my meta based on a description of it.

No, I didn't find a lot to be suspicious of in the walls of text. Honestly I find this game exhausting for how little content there is in the walls of text, and anything I might have found had already been talked out ad nauseum. Each to their own methods - I'm not finding others suspicious just because of their play style. If you don't like the way I play, too bad. You aren't the first, and you won't be the last.

Let me make one thing very clear - I'm not going to play a different way because you find me suspicious. I play my way.

Also, Epi just triggered my bullshit alarm, literally.

Here's the thing. I don't think your playstyle, as you describe it, is bad. Staying in the sidelines and waiting for the right moment to point something out is a perfectly valid strategy.

What I question is the application of your playstyle in this game. You say there was nothing in the game worth commenting on, that the walls of texts were too big and didn't mean anything, etc. But that is completely unproductive, and it feels to me like you were being satisfied in not being useful in the game. There are hundreds of posts in the game, if you wanted to find something useful to talk about, you would. But the phase was moving and you were just skating through, occasionally talking about how the walls of texts were bad and discussing MP's meta, but that's it. You say you were given lemons, but you made zero effort to turn them into a lemonade. Your playstyle isn't fit for this particular game, but you aren't interested in making it fit either.

So you posted examples of past games. From your description of them, it sounds to me like someone who will make the effort to make himself useful and find something to talk about. Someone who, in face of a day 0 where nothing is happening, will try to investigate the poll instead. A player who wants to play the game who will do their best to produce something useful. And that's not how I'm seeing you now. The way I see, you are just not playing the game.

It seems to me like you are trying to keep yourself close enough to your alleged meta in order to remain unsuspicious, so you keep decribing your meta and playing along. But I can't help but think your meta is more effective in practice than that. I don't know it first hand, but yours and Turnip's posts suggest me that.

Now, after I arrived to that conclusion yesterday, you have become a little more pro-active. You started going against Epi for his war on MP. That's a plus for you in terms of activity. But it isn't a really hard case to make. You are not the only person who thinks Epi's real life time calculations are pointless. I do too, and so do others. So it can be a way for you to get on an easy bandwagon, and avoid the impression that you're not being useful.

So I'm going to vote for you. I'm not fully convinced you're mafia, but for Day 1, you are the best target I've encountered until now. I hope I'm not wrong, and I apologize in advance if I am.

Vote Golden

[sanmateo]

g-man waffles on golden, epignosis, mp07 4 vote?

[sanmateo]

picture a wood vaccum?

i'm not good at this

[Marmot]

@sanmateo. I believe that one is "Picture posts sucks".

[Tangrowth]

After mulling specifically over Golden, I'm more unsure what to think of him. I do think it's easy for him to defend me over Epi in the RL debate, but I think he'd do that regardless of alignment.

Honestly, as much as I still have Bass in the same position I did, I think I'd rather lynch someone who doesn't have any votes at the moment, namely splints.

[Sloonei]

We're approaching that Final Hour thing and still only a few players have voted, and even fewer are actually here right now. Should we expect an increase in thread traffic in this time, or we nearing some "drive-by" voting as was warned about earlier? I feel this has been a fairly productive Day 1, but nowhere near enough for discussion to be wrapped up at this point. Anyone else have anything to throw out?

[sanmateo]

@ddl: do you think epi is town?

[fingersplints]

Do you think it's more likely they're scum just not sure what to say about us, or townies just not sure what to think about us?

I don't think it's indicative of any alignment. I just think they prefer familiarity, so there is a good chance they are not reading as deeply into any of the newer players posts as they are into some of the regulars here. I find I have to put more effort into reading the newer players, because I don't know your styles, and y'all are foreign to me (with the exception of Dragon D. Luffy and TinyBubbles). So, if this is the case, I don't think it is good for several players to ignore the existance of half a dozen other players.

I mentioned them all in one go actually:

The other thing that bothered me about MP was his line about TinyBubbles setting off "ALARM BELLS OF RAGE" for wanting to randomize despite that a lot has happened. Not that much has happened tbh. Some of these long posts are long for the sake of being long tbh
Why is it that crazy for a new person to want to randomize that it would make you rage? That bit seemed weird and forced

Linki - I gotta reread them one at a time. Those guys were mashing together for me a bit there. I don't do well with walls of text I'm not surprised by their reads although I don't agree seem to agree with most of them.

This was just a little while ago. I haven't gotten a chance to reread them since then and likely won't be able to this day period.
I don't prefer familiarity. You know I am in a bunch of games with players I don't know atm This is just what has stuck out to me so far. I haven't even given my read on Rox yet!

[Tangrowth]

Do you think it's more likely they're scum just not sure what to say about us, or townies just not sure what to think about us?

I don't think it's indicative of any alignment. I just think they prefer familiarity, so there is a good chance they are not reading as deeply into any of the newer players posts as they are into some of the regulars here. I find I have to put more effort into reading the newer players, because I don't know your styles, and y'all are foreign to me (with the exception of Dragon D. Luffy and TinyBubbles). So, if this is the case, I don't think it is good for several players to ignore the existance of half a dozen other players.

I second this opinion, but I do think it's convenient for someone to hide behind a veil of familiarity rather than to attempt to issue opinions on new players.

That said, this game has moved quickly, and there are significant portions of players who've not played at all or much with each other, so I can relate, since I've played at more than a few sites anymore.

[Tangrowth]

I'm just going to ignore the accusation that my posts suck, since I've literally put almost every single bit of free time into this game that I possibly can, eating significantly into my time that I should be working on my replication paper, as well as time with my fiance and other activities.

[Elohcin]

it's important i think that MP has ranked DDL as his #1 town read (more than once). he hasn't just defended DDL blankly with very vague comments like Bass and others did. he made a bold Day 1 assertion that the thread's Public Enemy #1 was his biggest town read. and those of you who criticized MP for raising the possibility of a WIFOM gambit re: G-Man, i ask this:

what does a mafia MP07 gain from taking this strong town stance on DDL throughout this phase? it's an important distinction -- vague or soft defenses are legitimately suspicious, but MP's hasn't been that at all. one might assert that he is protecting a mafia team mate, but then the theory immediately becomes more far-fetched (because two players are being called mafia together before either of them has flipped). if someone feels MP OR DDL is mafia, then that player must grant that a mafia MP would then be making every effort to prevent the lynch of a townie on Day 1. and that would be definitive WIFOM.

Maybe the "new MP" is the kind of player that unreservedly defends his partners on day 1 instead of throwing them under the bus on day 1 like he used to

I have seen Epi catch people on timing issues/RL lies before. I have seen players lie to me about RL issues and lie to the thread about RL issues. IN BTSC in other games, I have been encouraged to lie about RL issues in order to make myself appear more civ. I do think that is wrong. Unlike Epi, I will bring up RL. I can't separate it so easily. I love my family, my kids, and I want to share them with whoever will care to listen. BUT, I will not lie about them or my RL issues in order to appear more civ. Okay...off my soap box. So I do think Epi could be on to something. And b/c of that, maybe I was onto something too with MP's cheerful attitude. Maybe he was very excited to be a baddie in his first game back on the syndicate

What in the fucking world gives you reason to believe I'm lying about my RL and that no one else is?

I WAS TALKING WITH MY FIANCE AND EATING. I DON'T LIVE ON THE SITE.

I am not fabricating anything about DDL. I don't fucking understand this.

I never lie about RL. EVER.

Shoot dawg! I don't remember calling you a liar MP. I just said Epi may be on to something. I said I have SEEN people lie about RL before and ask me to do the same.

If anything really gives me a suspicion of you its the way you reacted to my post.

Third, and most importantly, Roger Rabbit I relied heavily on RL as a last resort defense against an onslaught of accusations, never prompted. Here, I responded to something you said, and you inquired why it took me 20 minutes to respond. I therefore asked your question, which inevitably relied on RL, to provide context. I'm not relying on RL aggressively as a defense. These are two completely different circumstances that I can't believe you don't recognize. Either you recognize it and you're trying to get me riled up or you don't recognize it and you're trying to get an easy lynch out of me, which every regular on this site knows could happen.

This is exactly how I read epi's line of questioning. I know MP has used emotional blackmail against people in the recent past.

And, it's not getting any better this morning.

I feel I need to hold my vote for now, but Epi is certainly my preferred vote.

There was ONE time I made this big dramatic, emotional scene when people started eyeing me. It was SOOOO fun! I was laughing with my team BTS and it worked! I didn't get lynched. I don't remember if that was a game I won, but I think it was.

Anyway....all this to say that MP's emotional crazies don't help him look better. But I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for today so he can calm down and I can be a better judge of his alignment tomorrow. I will vote Golden today. I feel kind of bad doing so b/c I voted him early in the last game I played with him and he was my "mafia" husband I needed to find and gain BTSC with. And I think he would have been a very cool BTSC partner. I hate it b/c if I knew I had until the end of night to submit a name, I would have picked him as he was suspicious of me, but instead I picked another and got played the whole game. Oh how different that game could have been Golden if only I knew I had to the end of the night period. I blame Epi for not being clear

[sanmateo]

i think the fact that picture-man made a guide for people to understand or at least notice when he mentions another player is town-ish and i dont think he is doing a gambit

[Tangrowth]

We're approaching that Final Hour thing and still only a few players have voted, and even fewer are actually here right now. Should we expect an increase in thread traffic in this time, or we nearing some "drive-by" voting as was warned about earlier? I feel this has been a fairly productive Day 1, but nowhere near enough for discussion to be wrapped up at this point. Anyone else have anything to throw out?

It's a tough call, probably some from column A and some from column B.

It's very likely that one of the players currently with votes will be lynched.

[Sloonei]

After mulling specifically over Golden, I'm more unsure what to think of him. I do think it's easy for him to defend me over Epi in the RL debate, but I think he'd do that regardless of alignment.

Honestly, as much as I still have Bass in the same position I did, I think I'd rather lynch someone who doesn't have any votes at the moment, namely splints.

splints is one of a couple players i'd like to hear more from before i decide whether they're worth voting for at this point. I don't honestly remember the names of the others at the moment, I think Black Rock was one of them. And any of the people metalmarsh mentioned as not having mentioned any of us newbies.

[Tangrowth]

And here comes Elo with a vote for Golden, despite the fact that her suspicion of ME increased.

Elo falls way down the list for me.

[Tangrowth]

5 votes for Golden? What the sodding hell?

[Roxy]

I am torn betwixt TH and Metalspammer.

I have not previously spoken about the Spamming Newt so I will be laying a vote on TH. I did not like his vote or reasoning he later expressed.

I have zero time til. I am home

[Tangrowth]

I am torn betwixt TH and Metalspammer.

I have not previously spoken about the Spamming Newt so I will be laying a vote on TH. I did not like his vote or reasoning he later expressed.

I have zero time til. I am home

Curious to hear your opinions more fleshed out when you have the time.

[Elohcin]

And here comes Elo with a vote for Golden, despite the fact that her suspicion of ME increased.

Elo falls way down the list for me.

Seriously dude? So what if I voted for you? Would I stay green? Did you even read my post?

[fingersplints]

5 votes for Golden? What the sodding hell?

You and bass have votes.

I'd love to hear Rox's opinion on Bass. She knows him well

[Tangrowth]

Well, as much as I want to get someone else lynched, it seems this will be impossible. I'd rather lynch Bass over Golden or myself, so I'm very likely going to vote there. Other current non-voters, what are your thoughts?

[Tangrowth]

And here comes Elo with a vote for Golden, despite the fact that her suspicion of ME increased.

Elo falls way down the list for me.

Seriously dude? So what if I voted for you? Would I stay green? Did you even read my post?

Yes, I read it, and it's precisely why I no longer think you're a civilian.

[sanmateo]

when did epignosis vote?

[Tangrowth]

He didn't post it in thread. Terrible form.

[Marmot]

Do you think it's more likely they're scum just not sure what to say about us, or townies just not sure what to think about us?

I don't think it's indicative of any alignment. I just think they prefer familiarity, so there is a good chance they are not reading as deeply into any of the newer players posts as they are into some of the regulars here. I find I have to put more effort into reading the newer players, because I don't know your styles, and y'all are foreign to me (with the exception of Dragon D. Luffy and TinyBubbles). So, if this is the case, I don't think it is good for several players to ignore the existance of half a dozen other players.

I mentioned them all in one go actually:

The other thing that bothered me about MP was his line about TinyBubbles setting off "ALARM BELLS OF RAGE" for wanting to randomize despite that a lot has happened. Not that much has happened tbh. Some of these long posts are long for the sake of being long tbh
Why is it that crazy for a new person to want to randomize that it would make you rage? That bit seemed weird and forced

Linki - I gotta reread them one at a time. Those guys were mashing together for me a bit there. I don't do well with walls of text I'm not surprised by their reads although I don't agree seem to agree with most of them.

This was just a little while ago. I haven't gotten a chance to reread them since then and likely won't be able to this day period.
I don't prefer familiarity. You know I am in a bunch of games with players I don't know atm This is just what has stuck out to me so far. I haven't even given my read on Rox yet!

So you did! But to be fair, that is a generalization, and not broken down at all. But you have at least acknowleged them, and stated you will get there.

Linki: Does Elohcin say "Shoot, dawg" when she is civilian or baddie? Anyone?

Linki 2: I second your notion about Roxy, MovingPictures07.

[sanmateo]

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/search ... =153&ch=-1

[Epignosis]

5 votes for Golden? What the sodding hell?

[Tangrowth]

5 votes for Golden? What the sodding hell?

I don't understand.

[Epignosis]

He didn't post it in thread. Terrible form.

I am work doing stuff until 8pm. Real life.

[Epignosis]

I voted for Golden.

He keeps mentioning Keeler, but doesn't elaborate on it. He keeps wanting to vote me but won't say why others should.

Keeler mafia. TH and I were indy teammates. Day 0 poll again, this time you got items you voted for. I noted Bullzeye had opted for key and epignosis for safe. I also found epi's thread content deliberately obtuse. I called them both out as bad on day one. Both were bad. I also called out Dom for getting emotional. I was wrong about Dom (his play style had changed significantly in three years to what I remembered).

Epignosis. He reminds me of Keeler Epi, and that's the only person I can fit plum into a previous experience of them being bad.

It's somewhat contradictory, but I am also still somewhat suspicious of MP. I definitely think that conflict could be civ/bad one way or the other.

I actually think he could be bad, but I'm not going to vote for him after that. I think I'll likely vote for you, your attitude reminds me a lot of the way you took to Blindfaeth in keeler.

How is what I'm doing here similar to how I interacted with BF? Golden never says.

And those two alternate bandwagons forming when they did looked fishy.

[Sloonei]

Voted Bass, since I feel things are starting to narrow down. I hope this was not premature, but that's been my strongest read for a little while now and the more I sit on it the better it feels (so far at least). Casting the vote officially has made me slightly regret not looking further into my Elohcin suspicion earlier in the day. I'll continue to consider her as a suspect moving forward in the day and could get behind a vote of her in spirit, perhaps, if things shake out right.

[Tangrowth]

He didn't post it in thread. Terrible form.

I am work doing stuff until 8pm. Real life.

I am now chopping off Epi's head with a chainsaw. RINGINGINGING.

Real life. :P

[fingersplints]

Wasn't golden warning about drive by voting earlier? :P

[Marmot]

He didn't post it in thread. Terrible form.

I am work doing stuff until 8pm. Real life.

I am now chopping off Epi's head with a chainsaw. RINGINGINGING.

Real life. :P

Liar.

[Tangrowth]

I voted for Golden.

He keeps mentioning Keeler, but doesn't elaborate on it. He keeps wanting to vote me but won't say why others should.

Keeler mafia. TH and I were indy teammates. Day 0 poll again, this time you got items you voted for. I noted Bullzeye had opted for key and epignosis for safe. I also found epi's thread content deliberately obtuse. I called them both out as bad on day one. Both were bad. I also called out Dom for getting emotional. I was wrong about Dom (his play style had changed significantly in three years to what I remembered).

Epignosis. He reminds me of Keeler Epi, and that's the only person I can fit plum into a previous experience of them being bad.

It's somewhat contradictory, but I am also still somewhat suspicious of MP. I definitely think that conflict could be civ/bad one way or the other.

I actually think he could be bad, but I'm not going to vote for him after that. I think I'll likely vote for you, your attitude reminds me a lot of the way you took to Blindfaeth in keeler.

How is what I'm doing here similar to how I interacted with BF? Golden never says.

And those two alternate bandwagons forming when they did looked fishy.

What two alternate bandwagons? You mean me and Bass?

[Epignosis]

He didn't post it in thread. Terrible form.

I am AT work doing stuff until 8pm. Real life.

[Elohcin]

I have seen people lie about RL. I have seen Epi catch them in lies about RL and be bad. Heck, I have caught people in lies about RL who were bad. Umm......I can't think of her name atm. Your friends from school, accountant, she lied to me about her kid being sick and she had to take care of him so she could go an converse with her baddie team on how to handle talking with me. Players do it....you could be to. You may not be. I said Epi COULD, MAY, MIGHT BE on to something.

linki with MP - what about my most recent post (not counting this one) makes me go from green ALLLLL the way to red on your list? What did I say? Was it the fact that I said I have experience baddie lies about RL before? Was it that I said your emotional response made me wonder? Was it that I said I will give you the benefit of the doubt to cool down so I can hear from a rational MP tomorrow? What was it? Tell me, please.

Hey I can vouch for Epi being at work til 8pm. We are having grilled cheese and tomato soup for dinner b/c of it

LINKI LINKI LINKI

[Golden]

Guess I'm voting Bass in self defence.

If I die, take out Epi tomorrow guys. He is bad.

[Tangrowth]

Wasn't golden warning about drive by voting earlier? :P

So I've mulled over my thoughts on you, by the way, and I just wanted to stress I profusely apologize for mixing up the NO U with you and BR. I can't believe I messed that up.

I'm going to try to be more level-headed and stick with my brain here, instead of my gut, and allow you to properly show your intentions over time. I feel like I'm beginning to develop tunnel vision with my thoughts on you.

[Sloonei]

fingersplints has also probably moved into the slightly orange portion of my rainbow, if such a thing exists.
Golden would he more neutral and MP07 possibly a slight town read, for the record. I do not pretend to be right about any of these things, just offering my input.