Death and Taxes: An Economics Mafia [DAY 7]

[G-Man]

People usually don't catch or laugh at my jokes, it's OK. As a fellow accountant, G-Man, I'm sure you can relate. :P

:P

[JaggedJimmyJay]

i would rather vote mp or ddl tho but i'm gonna hold onto my vote til the end this time

Of the names currently being fielded by most people (aether, BR, TH, and splints), which would you be most willing to vote for?

Separately, do you think this behavior is atypical of aether?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

There is some precedent at least for aether playing this way as town.

When you are able to, could you elaborate on that?

Since aether can't defend herself to save her life it seems others will have to do that for her.

She has run into trouble in some recent games for low effort and apathetic play. This game might fit thr bill. I think she knows mafia well enough to realize her behavior will be viewed with suspicion.

But that doesn't exonerate her. She's a suspect by default until she provides a reason not to be.

[sanmateo]

aether in first place, black rock in second. wouldn't consider the other 2. aether can do some weird shit as town, idk.

[Tangrowth]

Therefore, even though I may vote aether nonetheless, I do want to discuss others.

And sanmateo, you say her d2 vote makes her more suspicious than BR, splints, and TH. Can you elaborate on why?

did i say that? i feel like you are moving the goalposts but what makes her more suspicious is the fact she said she was gonna drop out and then voted for a player (who the mafia would assume was a townie) who had 3 votes on already, and then she said it was pointless to analyze the lynch

What do you mean by moving the goalposts?

And you said that here:

I will admit the push towards aether today does make me a bit nervous though. I feel like it'll be really easy for people to come in here and hop on the aether wagon. I know aether's behavior has warranted suspicion (something I've expressed), but I don't know what makes her any more suspicious than BR, splints, TH, or even anyone else (such as Vomps or G-Man) in terms of lack of contribution.

her vote on day 2

[sanmateo]

nevermind then, i guess you were being transparent

[Tangrowth]

There is some precedent at least for aether playing this way as town.

When you are able to, could you elaborate on that?

Since aether can't defend herself to save her life it seems others will have to do that for her.

She has run into trouble in some recent games for low effort and apathetic play. This game might fit thr bill. I think she knows mafia well enough to realize her behavior will be viewed with suspicion.

But that doesn't exonerate her. She's a suspect by default until she provides a reason not to be.

Does her behavior strike you more as sincere apathy or an attempt to milk that perception as a mafia, knowing that defense of her would arise?

[Tangrowth]

nevermind then, i guess you were being transparent

I was asking my question honestly (not sure how you interpreted it), but nice joke. :P

[Tangrowth]

What do players make of TB's vote for Bass? What do players make of Bass? It's interesting to note that as soon as heat started going off of him that he hasn't been around nearly as much.

BBL

[JaggedJimmyJay]

There is some precedent at least for aether playing this way as town.

When you are able to, could you elaborate on that?

Since aether can't defend herself to save her life it seems others will have to do that for her.

She has run into trouble in some recent games for low effort and apathetic play. This game might fit thr bill. I think she knows mafia well enough to realize her behavior will be viewed with suspicion.

But that doesn't exonerate her. She's a suspect by default until she provides a reason not to be.

Does her behavior strike you more as sincere apathy or an attempt to milk that perception as a mafia, knowing that defense of her would arise?

At least i can say that she might not know that defense would arise. She's been lynched or nearly lynched a few times because of this, so there isn't much safety in the method.

The reason i can't town read her is the content of her posts rather than the lack there-of. I don't like the isolated "good point" post from Day 1. I pointed to a very specific meta read on her comment about analyzing the Elo lynch. I can't refer back on my phone, but i doubt she really believed her own comment. I don't like that she voted when she requested replacement.

[Turnip Head]

Abusing the new spoiler tags. All spoilers are BR quotes that I'm replying to.

Spoiler: show

I don't think both of you are civs. Between the two of you I'm leaning more baddie on Splints then you. BTW I love playing with you, dancing and all.

The feeling is of course mutual

But BR... I can't help but notice that in this sentence you say you suspect splints more than you suspect me, but then you immediately pull some quotes from me, and then continue to make two more posts about me... and you say nothing else about splints.

Spoiler: show

After several posts of Golden is bad, your move Golden etc. You place this post as an easy out. Don't think I didn't see what you were doing here. I probably would have brought you up earlier if the disease hadn't taken over my life when it did.

And see, I think if you really suspected me for this, you would have said something about it much sooner. You had chances before now, despite the disease. You did not mention suspicion of me until I pushed you to talk more, and that is unlike you, because we both know we can't keep our mouths shut when we suspect one another :P The new people here don't know it, but I know that you keep a close eye on me when you're a civ, and this would have been part of your read on me earlier in the game if this were genuine even if you were sick at the time. You were still posting, you would have said something.

Spoiler: show

You got what you wanted TH, you put me back in the game and made me do work.

I'm going to go ahead and vote TinyBubbles.

What? Sure, TinyBubbles was working on flawed logic but instead of questioning it you just jump right on a vote? Seems like another easy way out.

This is how I know this case is retroactive. If you had been following along with this discussion in the context of the thread, you would know it's been pointed out multiple times by multiple people that this vote never happened. I think you reached back through my posts to see what you could dig up, but you're trying to make it look like you've suspected me all along.

Spoiler: show

Black Rock is a really hard read. She has not contributed much, but it could be related to RL busyness. It could also be related to RL busyness AND being bad. She's missed both votes, FWIW.

And I do not discount the idea that splintsy and BR could be bad together, but I'm more inclined to look BR's way first, since I think splints might be onto something with her post about MP.

Now I have to check my own posts, I don't remember saying I trust MP.

It shouldn't take you too long :P And you didn't say that. I'm looking carefully at what you did say though and wondering if you had an ulterior motive for responding the way you did to Elo in the post in question.

This is so non-committal. Just a post so you did actually discuss me.

That's... exactly what it is. Non-committal because it had been tough to get a read on you up until that point. Do you think I should have had a strong opinion on you one way or another by then, BR?

Spoiler: show

So somewhere back there you mentioned that you must have posted other things to catch my attention. You were right, I was being lazy. I would say though the biggest thing for me would still be the subtle backing of any suspicion of me without saying much of anything is the biggest ping.

So you're saying I'm suspicious for suspecting you. My intention has not been to be subtle, I take full responsibility for all of my feelings toward you BR. And you say I'm pushing suspicion of you without saying anything about you... well that's simply untrue.

Spoiler: show

Crap I forgot to mention you did go through a period of asking semi-relevant questions to stay involved without giving an opinion. That's always ping worthy.

You probably forgot to mention it because you're making it up


TL;DR version: BR suspects me for pushing suspicion of her, I tell BR she would have suspected me for other things earlier in the game if she was being sincere, BR says she suspects splints more than me, then makes a list of things I did earlier in the game that she suddenly suspects me for, and says nothing further about splints. Not only do I think this shows BR's suspicion of me to be disingenuous, but I also think it reads like a baddie mindset.

[G-Man]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I like it TH. Black Rock will probably be my vote.

[Tangrowth]

Fair enough, Jay, thanks!

I agree, I would feel best about a BR vote at this moment, then splints, then aether, then TH. I think.

[Tangrowth]

I also can vouch for TH's claim that BR tends to almost always have a strong opinion about TH from the very beginning of games.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

vote acrosstheaether

I'll stick to this one myself.

[fingersplints]

In fact, the fact that I kept asking splints over and over again for thoughts on suspects, and that she's barely delivered (couldn't even name one, yet she named she still 'really suspects BR') about a cycle ago, and now all of a sudden she has a list of players from least trusted to most, based on only gut feels "I guess", and she didn't even vote for her own top suspect... it all really bothers me. But I don't know.

I'd like to talk this out with others, but I need to really get this take home exam done. Ugh. I'll be back again.

I really can't win with you MP. I'm going to have to reread your posts because I don't recall you asking me over and over again for my thoughts. Just the once, which I did. I think it's highly unfair to say I 'barely delivered' because I haven't posted as much as others.

It is not simply true that I couldn't even name one.

Splints, top suspect. Go. What are you thinking?

Undecided who is my top. I'd like a couple of people to respond to some of those things first. The same people are talking

I said I was undecided who was my top #1. Not that I didn't have ANY. And yes. 3 RL days ago I was undecided who # 1 suspect is. A lot of shit happens in 3 days.

[fingersplints]

MP, what did splints say recently that struck you as slippery?

It's just... what suspicions she has other than BR seem fabricated in a way to ride the tide of the thread. She didn't really seem to suspect aether at all until the tide of the thread started heavily turning that way, that's what I meant.

Even now, she voted for aether even though she blatantly admits BR is still her top suspect, and she says her list is built on "gut feels".

This is also not true and is stretching even for you MP. I did in no way say my entire list is builton 'gut feels'.

Not anything particularly.

But since you're asking, is there anyone you're suspecting besides BR?

I voted for aether. I made you a list of most to least suspicious. A whole bunch in the middle I don't know if I could really justify why I ranked one higher then the other. just gut feels I guess

Black Rock
Acrosstheaether
birdwithteeth11
Turnip Head
MovingPictures07
TinyBubbles
sanmateo
Dragon D. Luffy
JaggedJimmyJay
G-Man
Bass_the_Clever
Vompatti
Roxy
fingersplints

It is a 'gut feel' that allowed me to rank JJJ slightly more town then DDL, but it isn't a 'gut feel' about everyone.

Also, I'm sorry, when did it become that you were ONLY allowed to vote for whoever you named top suspect? I don't even understand your point here or how it makes me "suspicious" to you. Interesting that you are thinking about voting BR first but rather then actually talking about why you suspect her you are going to try to push me.

[Tangrowth]

I'm voting BR, I won't have time to come back before the deadline. This final exam is killing me.

Splints, I just don't understand how you go from only really suspecting BR to being able to rank literally everyone in the game, but with no explanation other than "just gut feels I guess". Can you not see how that seems unclear or perhaps fabricated?

I never said you weren't allowed to vote for whomever you want. That's false. I just don't understand why you're voting aether when you suspect BR more heavily, except for the fact that people started suddenly pushing towards an aether vote. Seems opportunistic.

What does "interesting" mean? You suspect me or not? That's vague as hell. Am I not allowed to question you while voting for someone else?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Have to vote now. BR.

[Black Rock]

Well I voted for acrosstheaether, nothing else I could do at this point.

When I flip civ I hope you guys gain the info you are looking for on other players.

[fingersplints]

I'm voting BR, I won't have time to come back before the deadline. This final exam is killing me.

Splints, I just don't understand how you go from only really suspecting BR to being able to rank literally everyone in the game, but with no explanation other than "just gut feels I guess". Can you not see how that seems unclear or perhaps fabricated?

I never said you weren't allowed to vote for whomever you want. That's false. I just don't understand why you're voting aether when you suspect BR more heavily, except for the fact that people started suddenly pushing towards an aether vote. Seems opportunistic.

What does "interesting" mean? You suspect me or not? That's vague as hell. Am I not allowed to question you while voting for someone else?

I didn't go from only suspecting BR. There are more then one baddie so I was never only going to suspect one person. Days went on and I developed more suspicions. I don't see that how is unclear or fabricated.
I ranked everyone because it's really getting exhausting to feel like you are being accused of bad for not making a list

you said I was suspicious for not voting BR despite that you keep pushing that.
That is not false. You implied not voting BR was wrong while still suspecting BR yourself. And more people are pushing BR then aether. Wouldn't it have made more sense to stick with my BR vote? No I votes aether early for pressure and because it isn't even the slightest oppurtunistic

I don't think it's vague as hell at all. It's pretty crystal clear. You and BR are teammates and you have been suspecting her without much reason or conviction while it's clear you "suspect" me more. Are you serious with that last question? Because you have literally been suspecting me for voting aether despite the fact that I also suspect BR. Quite a double standard that you expect to be held to different expectations then you are giving for everyone else.

[sanmateo]

i feel like given how jay and a couple other players mentioned they thought there was one scum between br and fingersplints, a br town flip would actually lead us to lynch fingersplints almost immediately. i dont like that.

[sanmateo]

I
I don't think it's vague as hell at all. It's pretty crystal clear. You and BR are teammates and you have been suspecting her without much reason or conviction while it's clear you "suspect" me more. Are you serious with that last question? Because you have literally been suspecting me for voting aether despite the fact that I also suspect BR. Quite a double standard that you expect to be held to different expectations then you are giving for everyone else.

why did you vote for acrosstheaether over either of them?

[Tangrowth]

I'm voting BR, I won't have time to come back before the deadline. This final exam is killing me.

Splints, I just don't understand how you go from only really suspecting BR to being able to rank literally everyone in the game, but with no explanation other than "just gut feels I guess". Can you not see how that seems unclear or perhaps fabricated?

I never said you weren't allowed to vote for whomever you want. That's false. I just don't understand why you're voting aether when you suspect BR more heavily, except for the fact that people started suddenly pushing towards an aether vote. Seems opportunistic.

What does "interesting" mean? You suspect me or not? That's vague as hell. Am I not allowed to question you while voting for someone else?

I didn't go from only suspecting BR. There are more then one baddie so I was never only going to suspect one person. Days went on and I developed more suspicions. I don't see that how is unclear or fabricated.
I ranked everyone because it's really getting exhausting to feel like you are being accused of bad for not making a list

you said I was suspicious for not voting BR despite that you keep pushing that.
That is not false. You implied not voting BR was wrong while still suspecting BR yourself. And more people are pushing BR then aether. Wouldn't it have made more sense to stick with my BR vote? No I votes aether early for pressure and because it isn't even the slightest oppurtunistic

I don't think it's vague as hell at all. It's pretty crystal clear. You and BR are teammates and you have been suspecting her without much reason or conviction while it's clear you "suspect" me more. Are you serious with that last question? Because you have literally been suspecting me for voting aether despite the fact that I also suspect BR. Quite a double standard that you expect to be held to different expectations then you are giving for everyone else.

First off, I don't suspect you more than BR. Hence why I'm voting BR. Where have I ever said I suspect you more? Hence there's no double standard.

Your last paragraph is laughable. You act as if you know BR is going to flip mafia and suddenly I'm her teammate?

More people are pushing BR now, perhaps, only after TH made a case on her. Before that, suspicion was mounting on aether, big time. That's when you voted. So, at the time of your vote, an aether vote was opportunistic, yes.

[Tangrowth]

Okay, seriously, GTG, but I'll try to be back sometime tonight to re-develop my Rainbow Reads. I also want to ISO splints and a few other players, time permitting.

Here's hoping we catch a baddie with BR.

[fingersplints]

I
I don't think it's vague as hell at all. It's pretty crystal clear. You and BR are teammates and you have been suspecting her without much reason or conviction while it's clear you "suspect" me more. Are you serious with that last question? Because you have literally been suspecting me for voting aether despite the fact that I also suspect BR. Quite a double standard that you expect to be held to different expectations then you are giving for everyone else.

why did you vote for acrosstheaether over either of them?

[fingersplints]

I
I don't think it's vague as hell at all. It's pretty crystal clear. You and BR are teammates and you have been suspecting her without much reason or conviction while it's clear you "suspect" me more. Are you serious with that last question? Because you have literally been suspecting me for voting aether despite the fact that I also suspect BR. Quite a double standard that you expect to be held to different expectations then you are giving for everyone else.

why did you vote for acrosstheaether over either of them?

Because I think aether is bad too.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Ok so I just caught up and wow. I have a good feeling about TH's case on BR. I feel like it took BR awhile tto come up with a list of who she thought was bad. I think BR gets reads on people quicker then that when civ. It could be because she was sick or it could be because she is bad. I leaning towards the latter.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Im going to go ahead a vote BR I think she is bad news.

[sanmateo]

I
I don't think it's vague as hell at all. It's pretty crystal clear. You and BR are teammates and you have been suspecting her without much reason or conviction while it's clear you "suspect" me more. Are you serious with that last question? Because you have literally been suspecting me for voting aether despite the fact that I also suspect BR. Quite a double standard that you expect to be held to different expectations then you are giving for everyone else.

why did you vote for acrosstheaether over either of them?

Because I think aether is bad too.

don't you think it would've been more convenient to vote black rock that way you could confirm at least half of your theory of them being teammates is right? then you could move forward on the next day knowing whether or not you are right or wrong. that's how i would act if i thought it was crystal clear that 2 players were linked. voting for a third player who i also think is bad seems counter-productive when you are THAT sure

[Dragon D. Luffy]

That's interesting. The people who are voting for BR are the same ones who dropped votes on Eloh in the last hour of the phase (except MP).

[sanmateo]

i think fingersplints would be a better lynch, i'm not voting acrosstheaether now

[Dragon D. Luffy]

This is awfully inactive for a last half hour.

[Turnip Head]

Black Rock

[Bass_the_Clever]

Yeah its been pretty dead in here. DDL why do you think Splints would be a better lynch?

[Tangrowth]

I
I don't think it's vague as hell at all. It's pretty crystal clear. You and BR are teammates and you have been suspecting her without much reason or conviction while it's clear you "suspect" me more. Are you serious with that last question? Because you have literally been suspecting me for voting aether despite the fact that I also suspect BR. Quite a double standard that you expect to be held to different expectations then you are giving for everyone else.

why did you vote for acrosstheaether over either of them?

Because I think aether is bad too.

don't you think it would've been more convenient to vote black rock that way you could confirm at least half of your theory of them being teammates is right? then you could move forward on the next day knowing whether or not you are right or wrong. that's how i would act if i thought it was crystal clear that 2 players were linked. voting for a third player who i also think is bad seems counter-productive when you are THAT sure

It's because she's lying.

[Tangrowth]

I do wish we had lynched splints today, but I did feel better about the BR case until these very recent posts by splints. Hopefully BR is still bad.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Yeah its been pretty dead in here. DDL why do you think Splints would be a better lynch?

When did I ever say I think that?

[sanmateo]

gonna vote for black rock to ensure that there isnt a no lynch

[fingersplints]

I
I don't think it's vague as hell at all. It's pretty crystal clear. You and BR are teammates and you have been suspecting her without much reason or conviction while it's clear you "suspect" me more. Are you serious with that last question? Because you have literally been suspecting me for voting aether despite the fact that I also suspect BR. Quite a double standard that you expect to be held to different expectations then you are giving for everyone else.

why did you vote for acrosstheaether over either of them?

Because I think aether is bad too.

don't you think it would've been more convenient to vote black rock that way you could confirm at least half of your theory of them being teammates is right? then you could move forward on the next day knowing whether or not you are right or wrong. that's how i would act if i thought it was crystal clear that 2 players were linked. voting for a third player who i also think is bad seems counter-productive when you are THAT sure

Because I'm a civvie. I'm not voting for what's convenient I'm voting based off what I think. I'm not sure as in I don't have info on anyone and I don't have any reason to think either has a more threatening role, so voting for another person I am suspicious of is exactly the same to me.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Yeah its been pretty dead in here. DDL why do you think Splints would be a better lynch?

When did I ever say I think that?

My Bad Sanmateo said it.

[fingersplints]

I do wish we had lynched splints today, but I did feel better about the BR case until these very recent posts by splints. Hopefully BR is still bad.

I see what MM was on about the transparent thing now. no wonder you killed him.

[sanmateo]

I
I don't think it's vague as hell at all. It's pretty crystal clear. You and BR are teammates and you have been suspecting her without much reason or conviction while it's clear you "suspect" me more. Are you serious with that last question? Because you have literally been suspecting me for voting aether despite the fact that I also suspect BR. Quite a double standard that you expect to be held to different expectations then you are giving for everyone else.

why did you vote for acrosstheaether over either of them?

Because I think aether is bad too.

don't you think it would've been more convenient to vote black rock that way you could confirm at least half of your theory of them being teammates is right? then you could move forward on the next day knowing whether or not you are right or wrong. that's how i would act if i thought it was crystal clear that 2 players were linked. voting for a third player who i also think is bad seems counter-productive when you are THAT sure

Because I'm a civvie. I'm not voting for what's convenient I'm voting based off what I think. I'm not sure as in I don't have info on anyone and I don't have any reason to think either has a more threatening role, so voting for another person I am suspicious of is exactly the same to me.

but you said it was crystal clear both of them were bad, seeing how you focused on black rock earlier wouldnt it make sense to have voted for them? if you have 3/4 of the mafia team figured out by now i'm sorry but i dont believe you do

[sanmateo]

Yeah its been pretty dead in here. DDL why do you think Splints would be a better lynch?

When did I ever say I think that?

My Bad Sanmateo said it.

she thinks its crystal clear that 2 persons are bad but then she votes for someone else. that's a pretty obvious scum-tell imo

[Tangrowth]

I do wish we had lynched splints today, but I did feel better about the BR case until these very recent posts by splints. Hopefully BR is still bad.

I see what MM was on about the transparent thing now. no wonder you killed him.

Do you prefer fingermafia or mafiasplints?

[Russtifinko]

Hmmm, looks as if 3 players missed the vote? They will live to regret it...for now.

Host post coming soon.

[sanmateo]

why is the poll closed its not 5 pm yet -_________________-

[Russtifinko]

Who murdered Sloonei?

Poll ended at Wed May 27, 2015 5:57 pm


acrosstheaether
3
fingersplints (5), Dragon D. Luffy (8), Black Rock (11) 23%
Bass_the_Clever
1
TinyBubbles (4) 8%
birdwithteeth11
0
No votes
Black Rock
5
G-Man (7), MovingPictures07 (9), JaggedJimmyJay (10), Bass_the_Clever (12), Turnip Head (13) 38%
Dragon D. Luffy
0
No votes
fingersplints
0
No votes
G-Man
0
No votes
JaggedJimmyJay
0
No votes
MovingPictures07
0
No votes
Roxy
0
No votes
Russtifinko
0
No votes
sanmateo
0
No votes
thellama73
1
Vompatti (6) 8%
TinyBubbles
0
No votes
Turnip Head
0
No votes
Vompatti
0
No votes

The Ohio State University (Hosts/Mod)
3
Russtifinko (1), thellama73 (2), Metalmarsh89 (3) 23%
Total votes : 13

[Russtifinko]

why is the poll closed its not 5 pm yet -_________________-

The poll end time is listed at the top of the poll itself. 4:57pm (I assume you're on Central time?), which has passed.

Don't sweat it; since you're new, you won' be punished.