Death and Taxes: An Economics Mafia [DAY 7]

#2701

@sanmateo

What you suggest, then? Assume the evidence for lynching her isn't enough and let her live till the end of the game, knowing that no new evidence will be produced?

Or let her live till lylo and then lynch her and hope there isn't a real baddie hiding behind her?

Just get rid of her now.

#2702

I'm sticking with my aether suspicion and voting there. I hope you guys are right about Roxy
I definitely understand Gmans posts about being a bit overwhelmed by posts, but I don't really believe it. He still would have had to follow along. seems like it would have been easier to just play normally. Idk and the post explaining it that he took forever to write it seems like would have been better spent on elaborating on his suspicions more

#2703

sanmateo, what are you talking about?

I thought my expression to lynch Roxy has been clear from the absolute start of Day 4, culminating in all of my cases presented thereafter.

I don't understand the surprise over Roxy getting lynched, especially when she failed to defend herself entirely.

#2704

Roxy was clearly emotionally overburdened; she should have sought out a replacement earlier if she really didn't want to play. I think her recent attempts to give up are clearly a mafia who has been caught by excellent points (thank you, Golden and Turnip) realizing that she's been bested, and that there is no point in asking for a replacement so late in the game.

#2705

MovingPictures07 wrote:First off, WTF, a surprising NK indeed. RIP TinyBubbles, hope to get to play with you again soon.

Secondly, I've mulled over it, and I'm pretty sure I'm wrong about splints. Where does that leave us? I want to look at Roxy, but I don't know where to go thereafter. Discuss.

Be back later.

In fact, this was my first post after N3, and several players cased Roxy much harder than anyone else, so I'm really puzzled at the surprise over her lynch. What does her giving up have to do with anything?

I feel second most strongly about G-Man, only through events which transpired during D4, and realizing his prior actions fit him into a puzzle of a teammate of BR and Roxy (again, assuming Roxy flips bad).

I know some of you folks feel strongly about aether, and so do I, but I think it's worth considering that she could flip town.

#2706

Something taken from the Mafiascum Wiki that may be relevant:

[quote]Mafia is not a game you can pick up and play. You need to stay focused on it until you're removed from the game. If you decide you don't want to play midway through, your options range from getting lynched to getting replaced to even getting modkilled. All of these are instances of you letting your team down, and rest assured everyone else playing doesn't appreciate it. Many people have tried to recover from burnout phases with a "nice easy game of Mafia" and found that it didn't work out. [/quote]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... e_At_Mafia

In other words, mafia isn't something that you should play when you want to relax. Quite the opposite.

#2707

I'm also very sorry if I've contributed to you feeling this way, Roxy! I know the importance of a mafia break, but I hope we will see you back, I have missed you tremendously and it's nice to have you here again.

I have to say this game has been far too intense for my tastes, and if it became a pattern I wouldn't be able to play any more. It's taking my employers time, and it's taking my sleep time. I'm putting way too much of myself into it. But I think it essentially comes down to two basic factors - lots of new players with a civ culture, and a game where dead people can win. Let's see how some of these people like JJ and DDL handle the game when they don't win after being NKed in the first couple of nights a couple of times. It has a way of modifying your game.

Really, it was day 0 and day 1 that did this game in. I think I was partly lynched for protesting against being too involved in it (calling me an observer was fair, but a conscientious objector might have been fair too), but I still think we could have had a quarter of the number of posts in that phase and not lost any content. I can't say I agree with MP that 'if you can't handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen'. The simple reality is I think more players skimmed or ignored many of those posts than would care to admit (including me), and if it's really about handling the heat - well, I think a lot of players would just stop playing, and I don't want that. Thank goodness for the more sedate pace of the two full games above this one.

I can't say this is my favourite speed game, but for the fact that we have so many new players who I already think are awesome, it is worth it.

On a game related note, I guess Roxy quitting means she could well have given her team permission to bus her.

#2708

MovingPictures07 wrote:G-Man, I appreciate the elaboration. In fact, a brilliant self-infliction. I hope you haven't taken any offense to my pursuit of it, I am merely playing this game to its fullest. And, to say the least, this game is way more intense than any other Speed Game that has occurred at this site. It is currently in 2nd, just behind Roger Rabbit, in terms of overall posts.

All of that said, while I think there are elements of truth in what you've said, I still firmly believe you're mafia, and I still think your inability to be honest with us the entire game, as well as the action you made to bus BR and now Roxy, out of nowhere, in addition to Rox's defense of your curse (saying as if she KNEW what was going on) all bode terribly for your alignment.

Incredibly worthwhile effort, but you're still bad.

Turnip Head wrote:That's a nice story G-Mang. Never has such bullshit been so elegantly spun.

Sloonei wrote:G-man you're my hero

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:i'm inclined to believe every word of what G-Man has said regarding why he has played the game the way he has. i honestly suspected as much when i posted this:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Isolated hmmm thought from workjay

What id g-man isn't cursed and never even intended to fake it until someone first raised the question. Just posting a couple pictures to start Day 1 doesn't have to mean anything.
the problem obviously is that this doesn't mean he's town. and it's hard to take what he's done as anything other than suspicious at face value. there are obvious benefits this method present for a mafioso and he has enjoyed them the entire game until this phase.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:G-Man's story is amazing. I don't think he made it up, it's a pretty good explanation for why has has been posting pictures, and i certainly makes for a very memorable game. Also I think it gave me a very good idea for a game. Has anyone ever tried to host a game that only allowed pictures?

Like others said, though, it doesn't say anything about his alignment, and doesn't change the fact he has been in a very confortable position until now, which he isn't anymore. He was perceived as a player who was trying hard, now we know it's actually the opposite.

Vompatti wrote:Even if she won't be playing I'm not voting for a likely civ and I don't know why any other civ would either.

*votes G*

MovingPictures07 wrote:I'm ignoring Vomps's point of view in this case, since this is classic "chaos" Vomps. Nonetheless, I'm interested to see what he says in response to you.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Something taken from the Mafiascum Wiki that may be relevant:

[quote]Mafia is not a game you can pick up and play. You need to stay focused on it until you're removed from the game. If you decide you don't want to play midway through, your options range from getting lynched to getting replaced to even getting modkilled. All of these are instances of you letting your team down, and rest assured everyone else playing doesn't appreciate it. Many people have tried to recover from burnout phases with a "nice easy game of Mafia" and found that it didn't work out.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... e_At_Mafia

In other words, mafia isn't something that you should play when you want to relax. Quite the opposite.[/ot][/quote]

#2709

DDL, you have a good point. It's no doubt that mafia is incredibly emotionally taxing and that it can be a huge time commitment, especially for hosts. It is easy to lose sight of these facts because it is such a really fun game, but it is a precious balance of enjoyment and frustration, since the very game's nature is built around deception.

I have an addiction problem with it myself and, as I have admitted multiple times, I regularly use mafia to relax from PhD, and often I utilize practically every bit of my free time to play mafia, instead of more conventionally relaxing choices. Not probably the wisest choice, but I can't help it.

Nonetheless, I agree with the caution.

Golden, I think it's unanimously agreed upon that this game is not the norm, and I don't think anyone here would deny that it has been intense, especially as I've noted that it has way more posts than other Side Missions, excluding Roger Rabbit but we're about to surpass that, and it has more posts than Biblical Mafia, a 34-player game that is currently in Night 10. Honestly, I've treated this game much as I would the Champions game on 2+2; as I've indicated, I've spent every possible waking moment on this game, and it has eaten into practically every minute of my free time and into some of my work time as well. I do not intend to post this much in future games. As much as I am known for posting a lot, this is well beyond even my typical large activity. I think it has been very exhausting, but a fuckton of fun (at least for me), and certainly will go down as an intriguing Side Mission that broke many of the conventional norms of typical Side Missions. Again, I haven't posted a ton to take the fun out of anyone else's game, and I can't imagine anyone else has. It's been a very interesting ride nonetheless.

Also, I love the idea of a picture mafia! Forgot to say that earlier.

For the record, I do not like to talk bad about any other mafia sites, but personally I also cannot stand the atmosphere at Mafiscum, it's way too serious business for me.

#2710

Also, G-Man, incredible props to you sticking to your guns this whole time posting in pictures, regardless of alignment.

Regarding Vompatti, I'm not giving him a free pass, but I've played and seen many games with him, and I've known him for YEARS, and the guy is about as unconventional as they get. I call it classic "chaos Vomps" because there's no better way to describe that outlook, and it's one he's employed on multiple occasions. He sometimes likes to just troll people by asking questions and stating opinions even if they aren't sourced in background (in this case, reading the thread). I'm just being honest about it.

#2711

I also forgot to mention, Golden, that I disagree firmly with you on the dead players can win policy, but that's just my opinion.

Personally, I much prefer a mix of challenge and 'dead players can win' in my games, a la Death Note, that I plan on perfecting more over time, so that players have both incentive to work hard for their own self-preservation yet not at the expense of being a team player.

I think one of the reasons civilians don't win here is a spirit of civilian selfishness that you don't appear to exhibit often but that inevitably arises somewhat as a result of having to be alive to win.

I never understood why dead mafia could win but not dead civilians; the reason dead mafia can win is the same logic that should allow dead civilians to win.

But this discussion is neither here nor there.

Be back after the deadline... procrastinating again.

#2712

It's possible to be a very helpful civilian without showing your hand, its a balance. I only take that view because I think the inevitable consequence of allowing dead civilians to win is that it becomes an intense posting contest and that's not something I personally enjoy. Call it civvie selfishness

#2713

I'm not saying that mafia shouldn't be fun. If it isn't fun you should stop playing it. Fun is the whole point.

But it's not relaxing. It's stimulating. It's fun more in the sense that it makes the player burn energy, like when you play a sport. So if you are bored and need stimulation, go for it, but if you're running away from stimulation, well... it may not be a good idea.

I've found that I'm in a better mood to play mafia when I'm bored and am having free time I don't know what to do with, not when I'm lacking free time and need time to rest.

And no, I don't agree with everything mafiascum says either. But they have some useful wisdom.

#2714

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:@sanmateo

What you suggest, then? Assume the evidence for lynching her isn't enough and let her live till the end of the game, knowing that no new evidence will be produced?

Or let her live till lylo and then lynch her and hope there isn't a real baddie hiding behind her?

Just get rid of her now.

i suggest she should be replaced as i said half a sentence into my first post today

#2715

Golden wrote:It's possible to be a very helpful civilian without showing your hand, its a balance. I only take that view because I think the inevitable consequence of allowing dead civilians to win is that it becomes an intense posting contest and that's not something I personally enjoy. Call it civvie selfishness

Well, personally the contest isn't to show how much I can post, but to make sure I can contribute as much as my time and skill allow. I know that if I die to make a mafioso get lynched, it's a net profit for me. So I'll try my best to maximise the chances of mafia getting lynched because of my posts and votes.

I feel like this makes the game more competitive. Because you're playing to make your team win, not to stay alive yourself. But may be just what i'm used to.

#2716

I agree, but I'm still trying to figure out what the fuck to do with vomps. Any suggestions, guys?

Thanks!

#2717

Just noticed I quoted the wrong image. Actually I didn't even quote at all.

https://i.imgflip.com/m7vqb.jpg

Thanks.

#2718

fingersplints wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:What replacement? She's only going to be replaced if she asks to. But what she did was vote for herself instead.

I agree that aether surviving through day 5 (and possibly longer) is a travesty, though.
I think what TH is saying that is unlikely anyone would want to sub in at this point. It's probably a bit unfair to ask someone to read this pretty lengthy thread when they are almost certain to be lynched ASAP.

this is a fair point tho, i think that string of votes stinx tho

#2719

Look at sanmateo here setting me up to be lynched tomorrow. How is my vote more suspicious than anyone else's in that string? I voted after asking when EoD is, and MP07 told me it was 8.5 hours from then. I didn't know when I'd go to sleep so I voted, otherwise I'd have skipped 2 votes in a row.

#2720

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
Golden wrote:It's possible to be a very helpful civilian without showing your hand, its a balance. I only take that view because I think the inevitable consequence of allowing dead civilians to win is that it becomes an intense posting contest and that's not something I personally enjoy. Call it civvie selfishness
Well, personally the contest isn't to show how much I can post, but to make sure I can contribute as much as my time and skill allow. I know that if I die to make a mafioso get lynched, it's a net profit for me. So I'll try my best to maximise the chances of mafia getting lynched because of my posts and votes.

I feel like this makes the game more competitive. Because you're playing to make your team win, not to stay alive yourself. But may be just what i'm used to.

Please don't take it as a criticism, DDL. I hope you hang around to play the other type of game - I think you'll find that you still play to get your team over the line (as I do) even if it means you wind up dead. I just think you may find yourself taking a little more care.

And honestly, I think MP is right that this game is unique anyway. Take out day 0 and day 1's excitement at so many new people, and it would probably be essentially like any other game - it's had it's sudden post bursts when genuine progress has been made, but otherwise it's had its quiet times too.

Civilian behaviour when civs can't win dead is a little like the prisoner's dilemma. If everyone does nothing to catch a baddie, staying alive doesn't matter because you will lose anyway (this is the biggest flaw civilians make when they can't win if dead). Finding a balance where you can win the game AND be alive at the end when civilian is a very tough gig. One I usually fail at

I'm just with G-Man, I definitely don't take mafia seriously. I play to win! I don't know another way. But I play to make jokes and hang out with my friends too.

#2721

acrosstheaether wrote:Look at sanmateo here setting me up to be lynched tomorrow. How is my vote more suspicious than anyone else's in that string? I voted after asking when EoD is, and MP07 told me it was 8.5 hours from then. I didn't know when I'd go to sleep so I voted, otherwise I'd have skipped 2 votes in a row.

i'm not being subtle tho.
do you even think roxy is mafia or is it a convenient vote? you seem to be ok with lynching anyone as long as it isn't you. you said these two things 10 hours apart

acrosstheaether wrote:I have no strong feelings one way or another about Roxy atm

acrosstheaether wrote:FWIW, I'm increasingly leaning towards the case of Roxy being mafia. I would prefer Roxy to be the lynch candidate other than myself.

#2722

Because I'm seeing others' points against Roxy and agreeing with them?

#2723

Golden wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
Golden wrote:It's possible to be a very helpful civilian without showing your hand, its a balance. I only take that view because I think the inevitable consequence of allowing dead civilians to win is that it becomes an intense posting contest and that's not something I personally enjoy. Call it civvie selfishness
Well, personally the contest isn't to show how much I can post, but to make sure I can contribute as much as my time and skill allow. I know that if I die to make a mafioso get lynched, it's a net profit for me. So I'll try my best to maximise the chances of mafia getting lynched because of my posts and votes.

I feel like this makes the game more competitive. Because you're playing to make your team win, not to stay alive yourself. But may be just what i'm used to.
Please don't take it as a criticism, DDL. I hope you hang around to play the other type of game - I think you'll find that you still play to get your team over the line (as I do) even if it means you wind up dead. I just think you may find yourself taking a little more care.

And honestly, I think MP is right that this game is unique anyway. Take out day 0 and day 1's excitement at so many new people, and it would probably be essentially like any other game - it's had it's sudden post bursts when genuine progress has been made, but otherwise it's had its quiet times too.

Civilian behaviour when civs can't win dead is a little like the prisoner's dilemma. If everyone does nothing to catch a baddie, staying alive doesn't matter because you will lose anyway (this is the biggest flaw civilians make when they can't win if dead). Finding a balance where you can win the game AND be alive at the end when civilian is a very tough gig. One I usually fail at

I'm just with G-Man, I definitely don't take mafia seriously. I play to win! I don't know another way. But I play to make jokes and hang out with my friends too.

Sure, why not. I'm all for playing new kinds of games.

I get what you mean. I don't play games just for the competitiveness, if a game is just competitive and not fun I drop it right away. I just don't think mafia is intrinsecally a relaxing game. I saw Roxy talking about how she came here because she needed a break from real life... but I just don't think this is the best game to provide something like that.

Then again, I notice the kind of people who play here are a different kind than the ones from my home forum (older, married, have jobs to worry about...), while myself I'm an university student without a job going through a phase where I'm having more free time than I usually have. Maybe you guys aren't looking for stimulating games at all, so this kind of game you described fits your necessities better.

I won't say this game's intensity is what I'm used too, though. Normally I'm policing myself to post a lot less than this because I don't wanna flood the thread. While here, sometimes I feel like I have to policy myself to post more and stay caught up. I also think all those ISOs and rainbow lists and long analysis are kind of above the ideal.

#2724

I just play to show other people how smart I am.

#2725

This discussion reveals why I like to make games with individual, unique win conditions. I need to make another of those soon.

#2726

thellama73 wrote:This discussion reveals why I like to make games with individual, unique win conditions. I need to make another of those soon.

I like those too. i recently played a game where I was part of the mafia faction but my wincon was to kill the serial killer, who in turn was immune to any kill except lynches. And like half the players had separate wincons too. Awesome game.

#2727

Voted Roxy. I think her giving up like she did reads so bad. Then on top of that she self voted. I have seen baddies do this is games before.

#2728

omelette au fromage

#2729

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
thellama73 wrote:This discussion reveals why I like to make games with individual, unique win conditions. I need to make another of those soon.
I like those too. i recently played a game where I was part of the mafia faction but my wincon was to kill the serial killer, who in turn was immune to any kill except lynches. And like half the players had separate wincons too. Awesome game.

That was insane! I wish I could replay that game or another game similar but with more of my head in the game.

#2730

#2731

finally home. just in time for a flip.

#2732

#2733

Day 4 - The Death of an Idea

The discussion the next day began with Roxy at the forefront. In fact, it ended that way, too. Very little discussion about anyone else occurred, come to think of it. Actually, in a way, that made a lot of sense. Roxy's theories, when she had arrived on the economics scene, had been so bold as to make her a bit of a rock star. She was one of the most talked-about economists of all time, but today's accusations proved too much.

"I QUIT," she shouted angrily. The group was all too happy to help her along. She began to run as they started throwing things at her, and thought she was safe when she took a staircase up and hid in a small chamber in the highest tower. It was no use, though; the group found her an chucked her right out. As she fell, she screamed, "YOU FOOOOLS! THE ECONOMY TAKES TOO LONG TO SELF-CORRECT! WE NEED TO SPUR ECONOMIC GROWTH IN TIMES OF DISTRESS!" (It was a very high tower.) Defenestration complete, the others went back to their nightly tasks.

Roxy has been killed. She was John Maynard Keynes.
It is now Night 4. You have 24 hours to send in your PMs.

#2734

mafia = reqt

I hope you guys have saved a lot of guns and dollars cuz you gonna need it now.

#2735

BIH Roxy!

Hope your life gets better soon and you find your mafia break refreshing.

#2736

Dat's wassup!

#2737

Whodunnit?

Poll ended at Sat May 30, 2015 6:30 pm

acrosstheaether
2
sanmateo (12), fingersplints (14) 13%
Bass_the_Clever
0
No votes
Dragon D. Luffy
0
No votes
fingersplints
0
No votes
G-Man
1
Vompatti (8) 6%
Golden 2.0
0
No votes
JaggedJimmyJay
0
No votes
MovingPictures07
0
No votes
Roxy
9
Golden (5), Roxy (6), Dragon D. Luffy (7), MovingPictures07 (9), Turnip Head (10), acrosstheaether (11), JaggedJimmyJay (13), Bass_the_Clever (15), G-Man (16) 56%
sanmateo
0
No votes
Turnip Head
0
No votes
Vompatti
0
No votes
A duck (Host/Dead/NP)
4
thellama73 (1), Russtifinko (2), Metalmarsh89 (3), Epignosis (4) 25%
Total votes : 16

#2738

Nice work everyone. Sorry I couldn't be any meaningful part of that.

#2739

Note: if BR and Roxy are any indication, mafia fight their asses off around here when they're in trouble, and i'm honestly not used to that. it's awesome.

#2740

Oh, we have some real FEBs (Fucking Evil Bastards) around here.

#2741

It's a shame Roxy wasn't in full form this game, I loved playing with her and I think she did well, but I've seen her as one hell of a mafia. I suppose we were fortunate though. :P

#2742

Yanno what this calls for? Full interactive analyses of living players w/r/t Roxy. Sounds like a good way to get back into this game.

#2743

Excited to see the role go but sad to lose my favorite person to play with

#2744

MovingPictures07 wrote:Oh, we have some real FEBs (Fucking Evil Bastards) around here.

If you're talking about me, sorry I couldn't hold back. We lynched the fucking godfather. We robbed them of their night kills. I wanna celebrate.

That said, good game Roxy. It was a pleasure, and I hope I see you again in future games.

#2745

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Oh, we have some real FEBs (Fucking Evil Bastards) around here.
If you're talking about me, sorry I couldn't hold back. We lynched the fucking godfather. We robbed them of their night kills. I wanna celebrate.

That said, good game Roxy. It was a pleasure, and I hope I see you again in future games.

Hahaha, no, FEB is a designation we give to players who have played deceptively excellent games as mafia. If anything, I think the players around here, generally, are better at being mafia than they are being civilian, but of course it depends on which player you're talking about.

I was commenting on Jay's post about mafia fighting back, implying that I've seen some truly inspiring mafia performances in games here.

#2746

I don't doubt Roxy's real life problems were genuine though.

Though I do wonder how much of her distress at people accusing her was real.

Like I said in before, real life problems can be turned into an asset at the hands of mafia. It seems Roxy was pretty good at using them.

#2747

Meaningful interaction between/about Roxy and acrosstheaether

Roxy wrote:ATE - I think splints case on you has merit I do not think your responses (or lack thereof) have helped you. She has good instincts when baddie hunting and I trust her read on you bc I got the same vibe from your posts as she did. You also semi clearing Dragon bc of Sloon's death feels odd to me. I could deffo follow her and vote for you today.

Roxy wrote:Explain please. You keep saying that splints is bad but have provided no reasoning and now I am bad with her on team bc she called out a mafia day 1 got hounded for tunneling then when makes a great case on ATE and follows through with a vote and br is lynched and since she did not vote br that day she is a baddie teammie with her and bc I defended splints I am bad?

Roxy only mentioned aether twice, and those two posts were similar enough to warrant being combined here. the latter post is one i'll probably bring up again when i analyze splints. in these posts Roxy is supporting the notion of an aether lynch by supporting one of the ideas primary purveyors (splints). this might reflect well on aether in that Roxy isn't directly going after her. she is instead giving all of the credit to splints, which would then [in theory] absolve her of some of the blame in the event of an aether lynch. splints would then take the blunt of the criticism.

Spoiler: show

aether provided this rainbow during the 3rd cycle. Roxy being in the non-committal yellow pile isn't the best thing. but it's a minor infraction, because someone is going to end up there. Bubbles was too and she has flipped town.

acrosstheaether wrote:I have no strong feelings one way or another about Roxy atm

literal affirmation of a non-committal stance on Roxy. this was posted just after the rainbow, so it could be called a trend (and not a great one). Roxy was being called suspicious by a decent number of people at this point, though that train didn't really get rolling until Day 4.

acrosstheaether wrote:@Golden have you considered that either fingersplints or Roxy could be baddies, not with each other but with someone else? I'm thinking a scum team of Epi, Black Rock, fingersplints and TH.

soon after aether seemed to be warming up to the notion of a mafia Roxy, but only barely. here she splits Roxy and splints as likely non-team mates before proposing a mafia team without Roxy. so this is becoming a troubling trend.

acrosstheaether wrote:FWIW, I'm increasingly leaning towards the case of Roxy being mafia. I would prefer Roxy to be the lynch candidate other than myself.

on Day 4 the conversion to a mafia read on Roxy is nearly complete for aether. she wants to lynch Roxy more than be lynched herself, which is an obvious perspective for any player. this did come on the heels of aether offering a public approval of her own lynch. if they're both scum, this represents a nice opportunity for one to go down while the other gains opportune townie points -- it seemed inevitable that it'd be one of them (before G-Man's drama).

acrosstheaether wrote:Because I'm seeing others' points against Roxy and agreeing with them?

aether cites the cases made by others as her reason for suspecting Roxy when pressed about it by sanmateo. so she isn't taking much personal ownership over the lynch, which i think is good reflection when the flip ends up scum. so that means this kind of goes both ways in favor of aether: Roxy cast suspicion on aether through splints, and aether cast suspicion on Roxy [/i]through TH, Golden, and maybe others[/i]. this would strike me as a unique means of bussing, because mafia intent to buss usually want to gain credibility through direct involvement rather than sidelining.

~~~

overall this is a bit of a mixed bag. i am not a fan of the consistent non-committal read aether had on Roxy up until Day 4 when the lynch became a lot more likely. at the same time though, the two points swaying me the most in this analysis are the first and last ones i made -- both in aether's favor. i would ask that others look into these things and share their perspectives. aether is an important read for everyone because of the degree of heat she's taken from the start.

#2748

Russtifinko wrote:
Day 4 - The Death of an Idea

Roxy has been killed. She was John Maynard Keynes.
It is now Night 4. You have 24 hours to send in your PMs.

#2749

Meaningful interaction between/about Roxy and Bass_the_Clever

Roxy wrote:Bass - I found MP and his back and forth quite funny. I get why MP questioned you and pressed you for some suspicions (I do the same thing to DP) what I don't get is why after that MP would say that you are playing different and posting more. lmao! I guess MP forgot you posted more bc you were answering his questions. I thought your responses felt genuine and a little forced bc you. do not normally play this way.

this was a Day 1 read by Roxy on Bass. it reads a little awkwardly, in that it's very mildly critical of MP as much as Bass. the highlighted bit is particularly confusing, since Bass is being accused of sounding "a little forced" in his responses which also "felt genuine". i may be misreading this somehow, but i don't see how a player can appear both genuine and forced at the same time -- those comments are in direct conflict. it's hard to say how this reflects on Bass (because it's hard to understand in general). one theory i might throw out there to be nibbled on is this: a mafioso is less likely to garble up a false read on a team mate than on a townie (and this appears to be a garbled up false read to me). i say that because mafia are always very conscious of their team mates and how they are affected when they appear in one another's posts. so this potential error would then reflect well on Bass if my theory is accepted.

Roxy wrote:Bass - as you may or may not know is my son. I cannot read him quite as well as he can read me but I do feel like he is playing civ at this time. He normally does not list suspects and works on one or two at a time. He has answered questions directed at him which is more than he does normally and his responses have not felt forced but instead felt natural. He could be bad I am just not convinced of it.

Roxy's tune has changed into something a little more internally consistent on Day 2, with a concrete civ read. she even sort of clarifies the "forced" thing and used the word "natural" instead to describe Bass's responses to questions. i don't want to read too deeply into the family dynamic because i can't pretend to be some kind of text-based psychoanalyst. one thing i might say here is that this post presents an important combination: Roxy granting that her son reads her well, and also calling him a civ read. if she really believes Bass can see her game better than most, then she'd probably want to get on his good side if they're not team mates. minor point.

Roxy wrote:Bass - As I stated earlier this feels like normal Bass so far. MP forcing him to post may just be MP's way of trying to read him.

Roxy provided another reads list and maintained her positive stance on Bass. another point to be made here maybe is that Roxy drew a lot of suspicion for her premature strong town reads on Golden 1.0 and Bubbles (which both proved to foreshadow their true flips). if this was a consistently applied strategy (big IF i admit), then that would also work nicely for Bass here.

Roxy wrote:Dragon's first few posts this phase felt like h/she was giving a bit of preemptive defense of the way the vote went down. Then this bit of suspish thrown at jjj feels forced. S/He is still on about Bass and to me at this point seems like an easy suspicion knowing people are changing their minds bc of his game play so he suspicion seems easy. I could see myself voting for you.

--REDACTED--

Bass was also on Sloon's radar but tbh I feel like s/he just does not understand his game style. I am still trusting Bass.

i removed some of this post for the sake of brevity and isolated the relevant pieces. this one reflects better on Bass than the ones i've previously mentioned i think. Roxy is casting suspicion upon DDL for his negative reads of Bass. this is a way for Roxy to nudge responsibility for whatever may happen to Bass onto DDL while also continuing to work for townie points from Bass specifically. this post has the look of one that would foreshadow a town flip with a Bass death.

Spoiler: show

unless i missed it, the first time Bass says anything about Roxy is when he town-read her during the GTH exercise. the read is not ideal, but a minor infraction i think. i would feel better if he'd said something about her sooner though.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:Ok I have a little time so let me get in on this. I think TH and Golden 2.0 have made some valid points against Roxy.
I dont know G-man's game at all. Has he ever done big gambits like this in the past?

lends his support on Day 4 to the growing case against Roxy led by TH and Golden 2.0. it's good at least that he was easy to turn from his gut town read, but Roxy's lynch also felt inevitable so this might not mean much.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:
Roxy wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Lastly, I got a bit of a chuckle at Rox painting my posts as "hostile" and isn't sure whether she deserves it. I don't sincerely believe she thinks that, and I'm all the more ready to vote for her, but I'll at least give her a chance to defend herself tonight.
Idc if you do not think it read as hostile it was hostile and even a bit rude. (shall I pull the quotes?) and more over I am done just lynch me and then lynch you next. I am tired of explaining when all you have to do is read my posts then the roles. Something you are not capable of. All you are capable of is drowning out others with your 1000 questions in your million posts.

I am hot and tired and Idngaf about mafia when people are acting like bullies on a playground instead of playing a GAME that is supposedly fun. Well this game lost its fun so I am done.

Please vote and lynch me.

Thanks and good bye
To me this feels like a baddie thats been caught red handed and just doesn't care anymore.

good call. i actually don't struggle to envision a universe in which this post is bussing, but i don't struggle to see it the other way either. null read on this specific thing.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:Voted Roxy. I think her giving up like she did reads so bad. Then on top of that she self voted. I have seen baddies do this is games before.

his vote was the 8th of 9 for Roxy. so on that front it really didn't mean anything, so i won't award townie points.

~~~

Bass's post history only boasts mild promise here, but that's okay. because i think Roxy's posts say quite a lot, and i read nearly all of it in a positive light for Bass.

#2750

One thing worth noting is that TinyBubbles was killed on Night 3 after being the only person to vote for Bass on Day 3. Did the baddies think Bubbles was Adam Smith? What else would explain why they chose to kill her over seemingly more high priority targets? Did they think she had learned Bass's role?

Also, Roxy and BR (so half the baddie team) both missed the vote on Day 1. The vote came down to Golden vs. Bass, but Bass was a late contender, and both Bass and G-Man voted for Golden to push him into the lead. If Bass had not been a lynch candidate that Day, I wonder where Bass and G-Man would have voted.

Bass and G-Man have voted together in every lynch.

I think Bass and G-Man are the droids we're looking for.

Who killed our talkative teddy??