Death and Taxes: An Economics Mafia [DAY 7]

#2901

Bass why do you think TinyBubbles was killed Night 3?

#2902

Turnip, i can do a more thorough case later, but here's something for aether. in this post i described what i still think the most suspicious component of her post history in this game:

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 65#p145665

it's meta-based and i shared a post from an RYM game which shows why i feel this way. please tell me what you think of this.

#2903

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Turnip, i can do a more thorough case later, but here's something for aether. in this post i described what i still think the most suspicious component of her post history in this game:

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 65#p145665

it's meta-based and i shared a post from an RYM game which shows why i feel this way. please tell me what you think of this.

You make some nice subtle points there.

acrosstheaether wrote:I disagree about the notion that Elo's flip should be treated as a townie lynch though. Many people (including myself) would have been town, and read her behaviour as generally anti-town, rather than a mafia-tell in particular.

Did aether ever clarify what behavior from Elo felt anti-town to her?

acrosstheaether wrote:I'm thinking, is there anyone in particular who was most adamantly pushing for Elo's lynch? Perhaps that person is Adam Smith.

This just doesn't feel like something aether would publish in the thread if she had BTSC.

acrosstheaether wrote:
fingersplints wrote:Unless the mafia kills nightly now.

This post:

acrosstheaether wrote:I'm thinking, is there anyone in particular who was most adamantly pushing for Elo's lynch? Perhaps that person is Adam Smith.
Why are you trying to draw attention to who might have a specific civvie role?
So we no longer need to suspect that person?

Seems legit to me.

acrosstheaether wrote:Tbh Sloonei's death makes me feel better about DDL.

Odd conclusion for a baddie to draw about a kill they helped manufacture.

#2904

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Welcome to lylo w/ Vomps.

Spoiler: show

#2905

can we talk about night actions that aren't inherent to our role?

#2906

G-Man wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Welcome to lylo w/ Vomps.

Spoiler: show

lynch or lose- as in there's 3 town players vs 2 mafia players

#2907

Bass_the_Clever wrote:Ok so I want to start by saying I can understand why my vote could look bad to the new players but for everyone that has played with me before they should know I always vote late.

Spoiler: show

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:G-Man's incredulity in his recent responses only makes him look worse, frankly. it shouldn't be some kind of surprise to him that people find his actions suspicious.

Spoiler: show

thellama73 wrote:
Day 5

MovingPictures07 has been killed by Robert Solow.
It is now Day 5. You have 48 hours to lynch a bad guy.

Spoiler: show

sanmateo wrote:
G-Man wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Welcome to lylo w/ Vomps.

Spoiler: show
lynch or lose- as in there's 3 town players vs 2 mafia players

Spoiler: show

#2908

It would be nice to see your response to my post about your Day 1 vote, G-Man.

#2909

I've realised I've very much overstretched myself on the mafia and life fronts right now. I'm going to make a concerted effort to be less involved - which as with MP, is hard for me. I may fail, but I really hope I succeed - and what I hope from you is an understanding that I might be quieter and, if I'm still here constantly, an instruction to get lost.

On that note, I'm gonna keep this short.

TH, I came in to today thinking G-Man might not be bad and Aether/Bass could be. Obviously you agree with my on Bass but you don't on aether, which confuses me a little but ok. That's fine. But who do you think you'd more prefer to vote for if you had to vote right now out of G-Man and Bass?

#2910

If I had to vote right now it would be for Bass.

#2911

Turnip Head wrote:If I had to vote right now it would be for Bass.

Thanks, that's what I thought your answer would be.

I would feel more comfortable putting a vote there than on G-Man too.

#2912

I'm surpised you're that sold on the player you said has the cleanest voting record, Turnip.

#2913

I'd rather vote G-Man.

#2914

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'm surpised you're that sold on the player you said has the cleanest voting record, Turnip.

Cleanest voting record doesn't equal civvie.

#2915

Turnip Head wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'm surpised you're that sold on the player you said has the cleanest voting record, Turnip.
Cleanest voting record doesn't equal civvie.

Nothing equals civvie short of a civvie flip. But it's still a subtantial defense right?

#2916

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'm surpised you're that sold on the player you said has the cleanest voting record, Turnip.
Cleanest voting record doesn't equal civvie.
Nothing equals civvie short of a civvie flip. But it's still a subtantial defense right?

It could be viewed that way. It's just not how I'm looking at it. I think Bass's comments and votes for BR and Roxy are well placed distancing measures. He didn't lead the lynch on either of them, but supported lynches of them late in each phase and his voting record permanently proves he was on board. It looks like classic distancing to me

I think the case on G-Man is just as strong in its own way. I wouldn't complain if the votes ultimately went that way. I just feel more comfortable about Bass atm.

#2917

To be fair, i don't actually agree that Bass's voting record is that impressive. I think his BR vote was absolute money but otherwise he's been protocol.

I'll think about it. I don't want to give him too much credit for one vote.

#2918

I'm torn between 3 players (aether, G-Man and Bass). I wanna do some reads on their posts/votes before drawing a conclusion. But I don't know when that'll be since the beginning of the week is kind of crazy to me.

Also good game MP. That was a great performance you pulled here. Now you can finally go focus on RL again.

sanmateo wrote:can we talk about night actions that aren't inherent to our role?

Probably not. But I'll go ahead and ask a similar question:

Can we talk about night action stuff when we were in the receiving end of them?

sanmateo wrote:
G-Man wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Welcome to lylo w/ Vomps.

Spoiler: show
lynch or lose- as in there's 3 town players vs 2 mafia players

In other words: "Win the game if and only if you can decipher Vomps RIGHT NOW"

See why everyone is so scared?

#2919

Turnip Head wrote:Neither G-Man nor Bass have responded to this particular point I made on Friday night:
Turnip Head wrote:
G-Man wrote:My Day 1 vote was utter shit. It was a 100% uninformed vote. I knew from see other people's posts that Epi usually gets taken out early and he certainly seems like a pretty rash (but probably loveable) guy. From what little I actually did skim, I thought MP was being a mini-JJJ but a little less objective. In the end I voted for Golden only because I had no read on Golden out of the three of them.
Now that's an interesting summary of Day 1, G-Man. You're saying your vote was between Epi, MP and Golden, and you voted Golden for sheer fact you had no read on him. What this fails to consider is the fact that, at the time you voted, Bass had 4 votes:

Spoiler: show
thellama73 wrote:Who doesn't believe in the free market?

Poll ended at Thu May 21, 2015 6:04:04 pm

Bass_the_Clever
5
JaggedJimmyJay (6), birdwithteeth11 (7), Sloonei (14), Golden (15), MovingPictures07 (17)
28%
Epignosis
0
No votes
Golden
7
Turnip Head (4), Metalmarsh89 (5), Dragon D. Luffy (10), Epignosis (11), Elohcin (12), G-Man (16), Bass_the_Clever (18)
39%
MovingPictures07
2
sanmateo (8), fingersplints (9)
11%
Bass had 4 votes while Golden had 5. And you voted for Golden because you had no read on him. And yet, Bass' name is nowhere in your hindsight analysis of Day 1. Interesting indeed

#2920

Well, yeah. That or you could respond to the OG post from two nights ago if you're so inclined. You must have breezed right past it. But the top part is the thing that intrigues me most. Why did you ask about it without commenting on it?

#2921

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
sanmateo wrote:
G-Man wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Welcome to lylo w/ Vomps.

Spoiler: show
lynch or lose- as in there's 3 town players vs 2 mafia players
In other words: "Win the game if and only if you can decipher Vomps RIGHT NOW"

See why everyone is so scared?

If we catch another mafia today we'll have plenty of time to deal with Vomps.

#2922

Turnip Head wrote:Well, yeah. That or you could respond to the OG post from two nights ago if you're so inclined. You must have breezed right past it. But the top part is the thing that intrigues me most. Why did you ask about it without commenting on it?

Spoiler: show

#2923

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Bass_the_Clever wrote:Also I voted BR so that would be two team mates I voted for if I were mafia.
this is a point i keep returning to with Bass. it wasn't just that he voted for BR, but that he broke a tie and ensured the mafia player would be lynched. the other candidate was aether, who cannot be mafia if both Bass and G-Man are.

Spoiler: show

Golden wrote:Would make more sense if it was Bass and Aether.

Spoiler: show

#2924

G-Man wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:Well, yeah. That or you could respond to the OG post from two nights ago if you're so inclined. You must have breezed right past it. But the top part is the thing that intrigues me most. Why did you ask about it without commenting on it?

Spoiler: show

I believe you. You were worried how your vote would look, and you likely knew Golden would be the one lynched because Bass would have to vote for Golden after you. That said, I still suspect you. And the fact that you made no mention of Bass in your hindsight analysis explanation for your Day 1 behavior still pings me.

#2925

Talk to me G-Man. Convince me Bass is the way to go today. Convince me aether is.

#2926

i'm sorry how is "i thought it would look more suspicious" a valid defense?

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
sanmateo wrote:can we talk about night actions that aren't inherent to our role?
Probably not. But I'll go ahead and ask a similar question:

Can we talk about night action stuff when we were in the receiving end of them?

yeah someone answer this

#2927

sanmateo wrote:i'm sorry how is "i thought it would look more suspicious" a valid defense?

I agree, lol.

sanmateo wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
sanmateo wrote:can we talk about night actions that aren't inherent to our role?
Probably not. But I'll go ahead and ask a similar question:

Can we talk about night action stuff when we were in the receiving end of them?
yeah someone answer this

I don't know, the hosts would have to answer that. It could vary on a case by case basis.

#2928

sanmateo wrote:i'm sorry how is "i thought it would look more suspicious" a valid defense?

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
sanmateo wrote:can we talk about night actions that aren't inherent to our role?
Probably not. But I'll go ahead and ask a similar question:

Can we talk about night action stuff when we were in the receiving end of them?
yeah someone answer this

Russ should really be the one answering this. He is extremely anti-infodumping. My answer is that you should be careful. Being too explicit about what powers have been used on you is usually a good way to get killed, even if it doesn't technically break any rules.

#2929

Turnip Head wrote:
G-Man wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:Well, yeah. That or you could respond to the OG post from two nights ago if you're so inclined. You must have breezed right past it. But the top part is the thing that intrigues me most. Why did you ask about it without commenting on it?

Spoiler: show

I believe you. You were worried how your vote would look, and you likely knew Golden would be the one lynched because Bass would have to vote for Golden after you. That said, I still suspect you. And the fact that you made no mention of Bass in your hindsight analysis explanation for your Day 1 behavior still pings me.

Spoiler: show

Turnip Head wrote:Talk to me G-Man. Convince me Bass is the way to go today. Convince me aether is.

Spoiler: show

#2930

All valid points from The Most Interesting Man in the World.

#2931

G-Man wrote:
Spoiler: show

i can't deny that this point is solid. the obvious danger is that if G-Man is mafia and teamed with a non-obvious player, the extra day alive allowed by the Bass lynch could put them over the top. that's why the point is solid though -- it seems to demand that a dissenter put on the tinfoil hat.

#2932

So... Bass_the_Clever?

#2933

i'd like to hear aether and Bass convince others to vote for someone else. not "don't vote for me", but specifically "vote for Player X".

#2934

Bass_the_Clever wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:
Bass_the_Clever wrote:I really couldnt tell with her this game. Her RL has been crazy so I did not know if that was effecting her game. I'm not bad and I will keep trying to prove it.
Have you been in a game where I was bad before TH? Death Note doesnt count.
WWE, parts of LOST, Doctor Who... Flash... X-Men...
Did you see me throw any of my team mates under the bus in those games? I hate throwing team mates under the bus. So why would I change now when it has worked well for me in the past.

if i set aside previous perspectives of Bass and take his current conduct under pressure at face value, i see room for suspicion. this post is not my favorite -- he's asking Turnip to eat a dollar menu double-WIFOMburger. i obviously didn't play in any of the games listed up there so i have no idea how accurate Bass's claim is about his non-propensity for bussing. but i don't think it's a good defense.

#2935

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Bass_the_Clever wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:
Bass_the_Clever wrote:I really couldnt tell with her this game. Her RL has been crazy so I did not know if that was effecting her game. I'm not bad and I will keep trying to prove it.
Have you been in a game where I was bad before TH? Death Note doesnt count.
WWE, parts of LOST, Doctor Who... Flash... X-Men...
Did you see me throw any of my team mates under the bus in those games? I hate throwing team mates under the bus. So why would I change now when it has worked well for me in the past.
if i set aside previous perspectives of Bass and take his current conduct under pressure at face value, i see room for suspicion. this post is not my favorite -- he's asking Turnip to eat a dollar menu double-WIFOMburger. i obviously didn't play in any of the games listed up there so i have no idea how accurate Bass's claim is about his non-propensity for bussing. but i don't think it's a good defense.

I should clarify that bussing per se isn't really what I'm accusing Bass of doing. I'm really accusing him of "distancing". I feel like those might be two separate things from two different cultures. Bussing as a term hasn't really been commonplace at The Syndicate; only MP is really known for what others might call bussing, and we colloquially refer to it as "hard distancing". (We do sometimes use the phrase "throwing a teammate under the bus")

Bussing is gunning hard for a teammate and playing an influential part in their lynch, especially if that teammate was not under a lot of pressure at the time. On the other hand, making a few negative comments about a publicly suspicious teammate and voting for them when the writing is on the wall, that's textbook distancing (sometimes we call it "throwing a teammate under the bus"), and I think that's what Bass is doing. G-Man is probably guilty of the same thing, but at least he's putting the work in right now.

#2936

I don't feel like I explained my point very well still but oh well.

#2937

#2938

yeah on RYM we tend to call any act one mafia member performs against another "bussing", just to varying degrees.

i am pretty sure i understand what you mean.

#2939

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:yeah on RYM we tend to call any act one mafia member performs against another "bussing", just to varying degrees.

i am pretty sure i understand what you mean.

Yes exactly. Varying degrees of distancing. I think Bass has been doing some mid level distancing this game. And for him to say he doesn't distance with teammates is not a great defense, like you pointed out. I've caught Bass as a baddie via connections to teammates like this in the past.

Also, and he'll correct me if I'm wrong, but this would be the first time he's been on a team with Roxy. She could have taught him a thing or two

#2940

Anyways I'll shut up for now. I want to hear from others.

#2941

thellama73 wrote:
sanmateo wrote:i'm sorry how is "i thought it would look more suspicious" a valid defense?

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
sanmateo wrote:can we talk about night actions that aren't inherent to our role?
Probably not. But I'll go ahead and ask a similar question:

Can we talk about night action stuff when we were in the receiving end of them?
yeah someone answer this
Russ should really be the one answering this. He is extremely anti-infodumping. My answer is that you should be careful. Being too explicit about what powers have been used on you is usually a good way to get killed, even if it doesn't technically break any rules.

Yeah, as llama predicted, I am against people talking about what Night powers were used on them. Sorry I didn't see your question sooner.

#2942

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
G-Man wrote:
Spoiler: show
i can't deny that this point is solid. the obvious danger is that if G-Man is mafia and teamed with a non-obvious player, the extra day alive allowed by the Bass lynch could put them over the top. that's why the point is solid though -- it seems to demand that a dissenter put on the tinfoil hat.

i think the one rymafia export no one needs is "informative" lynching

#2943

Russtifinko wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
sanmateo wrote:i'm sorry how is "i thought it would look more suspicious" a valid defense?

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
sanmateo wrote:can we talk about night actions that aren't inherent to our role?
Probably not. But I'll go ahead and ask a similar question:

Can we talk about night action stuff when we were in the receiving end of them?
yeah someone answer this
Russ should really be the one answering this. He is extremely anti-infodumping. My answer is that you should be careful. Being too explicit about what powers have been used on you is usually a good way to get killed, even if it doesn't technically break any rules.
Yeah, as llama predicted, I am against people talking about what Night powers were used on them. Sorry I didn't see your question sooner.

dw, thanks modpeople

#2944

I have a hard time envisioning Bass as mafia, but it isn't impossible. Between Bass and G-Man I'd have to say G-Man, but my view might change if even more solid points against Bass come up.

#2945

acrosstheaether wrote:I have a hard time envisioning Bass as mafia, but it isn't impossible. Between Bass and G-Man I'd have to say G-Man, but my view might change if even more solid points against Bass come up.

aka i'm gonna vote for the first bandwagon that forms

#2946

I know a thing or two about the night powers used on myself if you know what I mean.

#2947

The setup where only one member of the mafia is allowed to kill is quite interesting, especially in a setting with a tracker. The invisible hand does work like a tracker somehow.

#2948

sanmateo wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
G-Man wrote:
Spoiler: show
i can't deny that this point is solid. the obvious danger is that if G-Man is mafia and teamed with a non-obvious player, the extra day alive allowed by the Bass lynch could put them over the top. that's why the point is solid though -- it seems to demand that a dissenter put on the tinfoil hat.
i think the one rymafia export no one needs is "informative" lynching

Rest assured that isn't a claim of RYM. It's everywhere. This late in a game we do need to lynch the top suspect though. What i mean is that the alignment of Bass/aether says a lot about the other. Only important if they're both suspicious though.

#2949

acrosstheaether wrote:I have a hard time envisioning Bass as mafia, but it isn't impossible. Between Bass and G-Man I'd have to say G-Man, but my view might change if even more solid points against Bass come up.

What solid points against Bass have come up so far? "More" imples you've seen something you liked.

#2950

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
sanmateo wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
G-Man wrote:
Spoiler: show
i can't deny that this point is solid. the obvious danger is that if G-Man is mafia and teamed with a non-obvious player, the extra day alive allowed by the Bass lynch could put them over the top. that's why the point is solid though -- it seems to demand that a dissenter put on the tinfoil hat.
i think the one rymafia export no one needs is "informative" lynching
Rest assured that isn't a claim of RYM. It's everywhere. This late in a game we do need to lynch the top suspect though. What i mean is that the alignment of Bass/aether says a lot about the other. Only important if they're both suspicious though.

How so? What would you think of Bass under the fact that I'm town? What would you think of me if Bass flips town, and if he flips scum?

Who killed our talkative teddy??