Death and Taxes: An Economics Mafia [DAY 7]

[Russtifinko]

Night 7: My Mercury's In Retrograde

After sanmateo's lynch, the normally rational economists were beginning to become fearful. They began to discuss a mysterious event known as "lylo", in which the world and the people in it may behave in strange and mysterious ways. It seemed to be similar to a blood moon, El Niño, or mercury being in retrograde on a massive scale.

Many continued to produce in preparation for the trials ahead, causing an economic BOOM!

However, they were so engrossed in their individual work that they barely noticed when the normally loquacious JaggedJimmyJay fell silent. They found him the next morning, facedown on his desk, poisoned in the Night.

JaggedJimmyJay has been killed by Robert Solow.
It is now Day 8. You have 24 hours to lynch someone.

[G-Man]

Also - I knew who G-Man was from STV. In fact, I revered him a little, it was sort of my first internet forum experience and there were some people there that seemed like Gods to me and G-Man was one of them. I really didn't know that, in forums, people got known just by being around a lot and thats what made them seem important.

But I can confirm I've never actually gotten to play mafia with him. I think he stopped playing just before Grease when I started. I myself was looking at the STV archive just on the weekend, trying to find a game g-man played in to see if we did cross over at all, but we definitely didn't. I also remembered how there were a couple of games in a row where we caught the baddie team dead to rights at the very start of the game

(G-Man, my biggest blow up that I am ashamed of in mafia was also at ObscureAllure.)

Spoiler: show

[Russtifinko]

Please stop talking about your purchases (real or imagined). It violates Rule #3 on the first page. Anything not learned from the thread doe snot belong in the thread.

Hehe...."doe snot". Gross.

Just goes to show how bad llama is this game. Lynch him!

[G-Man]

Night 7: My Mercury's In Retrograde

JaggedJimmyJay has been killed by Robert Solow.
It is now Day 8. You have 24 hours to lynch someone.

[G-Man]

Please stop talking about your purchases (real or imagined). It violates Rule #3 on the first page. Anything not learned from the thread doe snot belong in the thread.

Hehe...."doe snot". Gross.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

GG Jay. That's one hell of a town game you pulled here. Looking foward to see you play on mafia champs.

With this, I guess every syndicate newbie in this game turned out to be town. It's almost like this was a newbies vs veterans game.

[G-Man]

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

[G-Man]

GG Jay. That's one hell of a town game you pulled here. Looking foward to see you play on mafia champs.

With this, I guess every syndicate newbie in this game turned out to be town. It's almost like this was a newbies vs veterans game.

[sanmateo]

doe snot

same

[JaggedJimmyJay]

What? I can die?

[Sloonei]

they tried to kill you earlier, but their kill submissions were all lost in the sea of 750 JJJ posts

[Sloonei]

it's been like a month since i was in this game, i barely have an internet connection, and i'm still checking it daily

[Dragon D. Luffy]

JJJ, MP, Sloonei and DDL dead = thread activity plummets.

Either that or the dead will take over the game.

[Marmot]

JJJ, MP, Sloonei and DDL dead = thread activity plummets.

Either that or the dead will take over the game.

Ahem.

[Tangrowth]

RIP Jay. To say it was a fantastic first game at TS is a vast understatement.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

JJJ, MP, Sloonei and DDL dead = thread activity plummets.

Either that or the dead will take over the game.

Ahem.

You weren't that active in this game as the four of us.

[Golden]

RIP JJ

It was really a pleasure playing the game with you. I hope that this is just the beginning of many games together.

RIP Jay. To say it was a fantastic first game at TS is a vast understatement.

QFT. The addition of all of you newbies makes me so excited about what this site is bringing to bring in the future.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

thanks for the kind words everyone. i'll have more to say during post-game. i feel wrong talking a bunch while i'm dead.

[Golden]

Why kill JJ?

All - perceive him as a threat, an effective civilian

G-Man - JJ is his most vocal opponent, clearly was going to be going after G-Man today, needs to create doubt
vomps - JJ was putting him to some kind of test of his civvieness, killing him to ensure he doesn't fail the test
splints - wifom, because why would splints kill JJ
golden - JJ had me second in his suspicions after GMan

[Marmot]

JJJ, MP, Sloonei and DDL dead = thread activity plummets.

Either that or the dead will take over the game.

Ahem.

You weren't that active in this game as the four of us.

I've been posting in red too long to even have the chance.

I'll cool it though. Perhaps JJJ is correct.

[Golden]

Why kill sloonei?

All - Because his civilianness was a common view

G-Man - sloonei had no read, so the kill wouldn't easily link to gman.
vomps - sloonei was hauling vomps approach to the game over the coals just before his death
splints - sloonei had a bit of an up and down read, removing someone unpredictable
golden (BWT) - reading him as one of the stronger town reads, so the kill wouldn't link to BWT.

I'd also say that, like with TB, there is a fairly strong bass/sloonei connection which suggests the kill could be for bass reasons.

[G-Man]

This ends up being primarily 'tinfoil hatting' as well, but I think it's a good thought exercise.

Why kill DDL?

G-Man - going reasonably hard after G-Man
vomps - DDL has him higher in his lynch list than most others left in the game
JJ - competitor for controlling the thread
splints - his last statement on her was that he thought she was town, which is a good point to kill him without reflecting poorly on her
golden - his analysis of my meaningful connections with bass meant he read me as neutral or slightly town only

(I thought I'd remember more and this would be easier. Each one might take a bit of work, I was sort of expecting I could at least do the most recent ones from memory). And please do feel free to add alternate explanations.

Why kill TH?

All - because TH was an awesome civ who buried three mafia, remaining mafia likely perceived him as a threat to success chances. Also, because TH's last statement was encouraging everyone to vote aether.

G-Man - before his final statement on aether, G-Man was his top suspect
Vomps - Because he hadn't expressed much of a view on vomps, no connections to find
JJ - because the reason everyone would (can't find any specific reason other than that). TH did trust JJ, I can't find any indication that TH suspected JJ in the slightest.
splints - he still harboured some suspicion towards splints
golden - I was his tinfoil hat baddie at the time he died

Why kill MP?

All: He appeared to be a high performing civilian.

G-Man - GMan was in MPs dogpee mafia team.
Vomps - reading vomps as civilian, an opportunity to avoid negative connections
JJ - had a neutral and wary read on JJ, even suggested he could see himself voting JJ before vomps
splints - he had just made an abrupt move in favour of seeing her as civ, a good opportunity to keep his views frozen in time
golden - he had expressed some suspicion of me, had me as a middling read.

And that's all I have time for before the night ends so if I die, someone please pick this up.

Why kill JJ?

All - perceive him as a threat, an effective civilian

G-Man - JJ is his most vocal opponent, clearly was going to be going after G-Man today, needs to create doubt
vomps - JJ was putting him to some kind of test of his civvieness, killing him to ensure he doesn't fail the test
splints - wifom, because why would splints kill JJ
golden - JJ had me second in his suspicions after GMan

Spoiler: show

Look at G-Man making interesting points.

[Epignosis]

I want a white Russian now.

[Golden]

G-Man, that was a seriously awesome post.

(Especially the bit about you being a serial killer in 2099. If this was the flash mafia, I'd assume you were Barry Allen.)

I completely agree with your sentiment, and that IS exactly what JJJ would have us do, and I hope we do it. I'm very committed to looking at all options, and that includes splints even though I feel it is very unlikely I'm changing my mind there.

So, here are the questions your post raises for me.

What kills does a mafia g-man make? Does he really have an alternative but to make those kills?
Who do you think fits the description of someone who has 'worked hard to make us feel comfortable lynching you'?

[Golden]

Why kill MM?

All - why not kill MM. Looking back, it could be a frame job (on MP, possibly). I thought it was a weird kill choice even at the time and still do.

G-Man - because there are no links
Vomps - because there are no links
golden (BWT) - because there are no links
Splints - this post (this post could potentially explain the MM kill even if splints is good)

Bass_the_Clever, what are your thoughts or reads on the six new players in this game? I have not seen you mention any of them yet. The same question stands for Black Rock and fingersplints.

[fingersplints]

Golden I brought up that post of MM when I evaluated kills the last night.

Gman in your post you quote JJJ and say this kind of post scares baddies. I really don't see how saying you are making interesting would scare the "bejusus" out of any baddie but you. I have seen "interesting" more often lately used as a negative in mafia game. Some players even really hate the use of that word (I think SVS comes to mind)

Next your main point is very WIFOMY. Why would you do this 6 years after a break. Idk why would you call a lot of attention to yourself by pretending to be cursed? Your play this game that we can see makes it obvious you would try different things after being away for a while. Second I don't think it's really "schooling our asses" because you have been under scrutiny the whole game and are about to get lynched likely.


I'm not sure how not being bad in that long excuses you from being bad this game.

[acrosstheaether]

I was right about the final mafioso not being anyone from RYM

[Golden]

So you did splints, I just looked back. I should probably reread yesterday's end of day again because it was going so thick and fast it was impossible to keep up with everything. I don't think that post really incriminates you.

I was hoping G-Man would answer my questions before I started talking further about his post, but I agree with you on the wifom point. There are several aspects of it that are wifom. The biggest wifom for me in the whole thing is - the reason he gives for why he wouldn't be responsible for killing JJ (that is, it's the obvious answer) is exactly why I think JJ would be G-Man's best choice for that kill. What other choice would he have but to run this argument?

I'm very much hoping I get to have some really good dialogue with you splints, time zones make it a challenge but hopefully we get some when I wake up. And Vomps better show up and contribute.

I'd put my percentage chance of voting right now at about:

G-Man 70%
vomps 25%
splints 5%

I find it difficult to see a scenario where I will be convinced in the 4 hours or so I have in the morning to vote for splints. Someone could find the smoking gun, but I have been reading her back and all I see is the same things I always found suspicious and what I really can't get past is MP's reversal on splints and I can't see any reason for that which doesn't lead me to a 'splints is civ' conclusion - so, if anyone really wants me to think splints is bad, you'll have to give me a convincing reason for MP's reversal while splints is still bad. I can't really see what it would be.

Vomps could yet get my vote if he does anything other than be a civilian for the cause in this vote. I was hoping we'd eliminate enough people from being bad that we could spare a lynch on vomps, but we can't. We need to get this one right. I wish I knew why JJ had some civ role in mind for him. I've wracked my brains around that 'someone that wouldn't want roxy dead' thing and I just don't see it at all.

G-Man, here is what JJ spent his night doing in the night phase - he spent it proving to me that my hunch as to your role was incorrect. He asked if we had confidence in what we needed to do, and I said I had only hope, not confidence, and I did my best to explain why within in the rules, and JJ set out to create for me the confidence I needed. He spent his night looking at posts and digging up sufficient proof for me that I could move on from the hunch I long held about your role. So while I agree with you that JJ would have us continue to do analysis - I also think he suspected he was going to be NKed and he wanted to give me every tool he could to make the best decision, and he did that by disillusioning me about my hunch of your role.

[fingersplints]

I didn't mean anything bad by it, just pointing out I pointed it out too so you know that I agree it's his focus on bass. I know this is WIFOMY, but just know for after game and for your own knowledge I would not kill MM night 1. In Omertà mafia one of the first things I said to my team was I did not want us going after you or MM right away. I know feeling bad for players killed a lot early or protective of new players isn't always the best way to play, but I like for people to enjoy the game more then I like to win. MM would have to be going after me like crazy for me to have even considered killing him day 1 this game

[Tangrowth]

Go civilians! Win that LyLo. Avenge me or rezz me, one of the two!

[Vompatti]

I have a feeling I might be getting a couple of votes if I vote anything but G-Man, and because that might lose us the game I'll be voting G-Man.

[G-Man]

I have a feeling I might be getting a couple of votes if I vote anything but G-Man, and because that might lose us the game I'll be voting G-Man.

[Vompatti]

^ Probably Golden.

[G-Man]

^ Probably Golden.

[fingersplints]

I do not think I am gunning for you. I have discussed the other two people as well.

[G-Man]

G-Man, that was a seriously awesome post.

I completely agree with your sentiment, and that IS exactly what JJJ would have us do, and I hope we do it. I'm very committed to looking at all options, and that includes splints even though I feel it is very unlikely I'm changing my mind there.

So, here are the questions your post raises for me.


What kills does a mafia g-man make? Does he really have an alternative but to make those kills?

Spoiler: show

Who do you think fits the description of someone who has 'worked hard to make us feel comfortable lynching you'?

[fingersplints]

Vomps why do you think Gman is a civvie? Gman why do you think Vomps is a civvie?

[G-Man]

Vomps why do you think Gman is a civvie? Gman why do you think Vomps is a civvie?

[Vompatti]

Vomps why do you think Gman is a civvie? Gman why do you think Vomps is a civvie?

I don't think G-Man is a civvie. But if he is, that would mean he is not mafia.

[fingersplints]

can you please rank the remaining three from who you think is most likely mafia to most likely civvie?

[G-Man]

can you please rank the remaining three from who you think is most likely mafia to most likely civvie?

[Vompatti]

can you please rank the remaining three from who you think is most likely mafia to most likely civvie?

g-man, golden, you.

[fingersplints]

thank you

[G-Man]

[fingersplints]

Gman, vomps, golden

[G-Man]

Gman in your post you quote JJJ and say this kind of post scares baddies. I really don't see how saying you are making interesting would scare the "bejusus" out of any baddie but you. I have seen "interesting" more often lately used as a negative in mafia game. Some players even really hate the use of that word (I think SVS comes to mind)

Next your main point is very WIFOMY. Why would you do this 6 years after a break. Idk why would you call a lot of attention to yourself by pretending to be cursed? Your play this game that we can see makes it obvious you would try different things after being away for a while. Second I don't think it's really "schooling our asses" because you have been under scrutiny the whole game and are about to get lynched likely.


I'm not sure how not being bad in that long excuses you from being bad this game.

[fingersplints]

I sound panicky? lol You sound desperate.

Since I think you are bad, then it seems like you could probably have answered you first question yourself. I think that your teamates told you. Even back in the day though when you played, saying something was interesting didn't scare the bejuses out of anyone. Interesting is a wishy washy comment. It gives no opinion either way. So regardless of if you knew or did not know it could have had a negative connotation now, my point is actually that your comment was a major over exageration.

The shame in serving up heaps of WIFOM is that that amount of wifom serves to convince no one. I do not believe that you really believe that is helpful to the civvie cause.

To your last one. I agree that if you were bad you would stick out like a sore thumb at this point.

[fingersplints]

Also, if you thought you were going to stick out like a sore thumb if you were bad this game because you haven't played in so long, what better way to disguise it then pretending to be cursed to only post in pictures?

[G-Man]

G-Man, here is what JJ spent his night doing in the night phase - he spent it proving to me that my hunch as to your role was incorrect. He asked if we had confidence in what we needed to do, and I said I had only hope, not confidence, and I did my best to explain why within in the rules, and JJ set out to create for me the confidence I needed. He spent his night looking at posts and digging up sufficient proof for me that I could move on from the hunch I long held about your role. So while I agree with you that JJ would have us continue to do analysis - I also think he suspected he was going to be NKed and he wanted to give me every tool he could to make the best decision, and he did that by disillusioning me about my hunch of your role.

[G-Man]

I sound panicky? lol You sound desperate.

Since I think you are bad, then it seems like you could probably have answered you first question yourself. I think that your teamates told you. Even back in the day though when you played, saying something was interesting didn't scare the bejuses out of anyone. Interesting is a wishy washy comment. It gives no opinion either way. So regardless of if you knew or did not know it could have had a negative connotation now, my point is actually that your comment was a major over exageration.

The shame in serving up heaps of WIFOM is that that amount of wifom serves to convince no one. I do not believe that you really believe that is helpful to the civvie cause.

To your last one. I agree that if you were bad you would stick out like a sore thumb at this point.