Watchmen [ENDGAME]

[Golden]

@MP, I'm glad you replied to me, as I didn't know that this was a speed game. I would not have joined if I had realized that. I've got friends coming in to visit for 4 days starting tomorrow so my participation is going to suck in the beginning of the game. But, I'm here, I'll try my best.

Timmer, living up to his avatar since July 2015

(I really liked Inside Out, Sadness was awesome.)

[Bass_the_Clever]

Hey MP! I see you're one of those wordy, verbose types always with a smile on your face. You remind me of that big-eyed, bushy-tailed front desk attendant at the gym today. She was positively beaming when I walked in, so I asked her if she was recently hired, and she said she was the manager of that location and had been working there for 2 years. Goes to show that if you love your job, then you'll be just fine. Also that I apparently am blind if I missed her over the past year. But I digress.

It sounds like you love your job here. And I think that's pretty cool for the community. It's always cool to have a light in a dark, pixelated wasteland. (Note: This doesn't excuse you from suspicion, mind you. I have none at the moment..but down the line, don't think you can just bat your eyelashes and expect to let your voting patterns go unnoticed)

Seems we share the sentiment of eyeing no-shows in Day 1. I also want to clarify that I feel the day 1 vote is a crapshoot, but only in the sense that we don't know anything. You guys know how other regulars usually play, but I don't have that luxury, so, for instance, when MetalMarsh is incredibly vague and unhelpful in the first few days, and I get suspicious of that, someone informs me that "that's how he usually plays," and I've got conflicting feelings in that a) it is hearsay and b) what am I supposed to do with that information in regards to my reads?

I'm voting for the Comedian’s gun.
I also think I will be voting MM day one. He always seems like he is bad. lol

Thats was a joke.

That was a terrible joke. No offense.
I'm looking forward to what you have to offer in Day 1, Bass.

This post seems off to me and its not because you didn't like my joke. Almost this whole post is you trying to get on MP's good side. I have seen mafia do this in the past early in games. They suck up to a vocal player who they think comes across civvie.

[Bass_the_Clever]

So did anyone get anything from the day zero poll?

[thellama73]

I've got about 10 more minutes before I unplug for the night. Any questions?

Are you a member of mafia?

I am not a member of the mafia.
I am not Moloch.
My role does not pose a threat to the civvies.

Interesting phrasing. Not "I am a civvie" but "My role does not pose a threat"

[thellama73]

Llama, why did you decide to poke me a lot today? Just curious.

Good question. I noticed you were in rather a literal mood, and I saw an opportunity to feel you out, so I took it. Your responses made me feel a lot better about you for what that's worth.
So far I feel good about:
MP
Golden
Russ

and I feel bad about:
G-Man
Sloonei

DH's not feeling like doing a rainbow list is noteworthy too, though not enough for a vote yet. I know I am always a little more apathetic about baddie hunting when I am myself bad.

Everyone else has yet to make a strong impression on me.

[Bass_the_Clever]

I've got about 10 more minutes before I unplug for the night. Any questions?

Are you a member of mafia?

I am not a member of the mafia.
I am not Moloch.
My role does not pose a threat to the civvies.

Interesting phrasing. Not "I am a civvie" but "My role does not pose a threat"

So is he saying he is a Watchmen? Thats kinda a bold statement to make day one.

[thellama73]

You've been winning a lot of games lately, Bass. WHo are you thinking of voting for?

[Cookie]

Spoiler: show

After catching up on the thread, I have a few small things to say:

1) I'm new to this site so don't think I am a good candidate for policy voting (please), for those of you who support it.
2) I've never heard policy voting but I think it's good to identify that problem within mafia games. I've always hated it and having to explain that, in terms of probability, we are more likely to lynch a townie. That being said, I do not support it in any way.
3) I don't think G-Man is suspicious. Having said that, I barely remember who posted what because everyone is new to me. It's easier if I knew people and can put a personality to the post, so when I get to know everyone a bit more, I will be able to scumhunt more efficiently.
4) How do I vote not to lynch someone? On the site I use, we vote "no lynch." Is there an alternative name for it here or do I just not vote?

Welcome, Cookie!

Why do you not think G-Man is suspicious? Can you elaborate?

Why would you want to vote a "no lynch"?

I don't think G-Man is suspicious because, at this point, I don't suspect anyone's posts to be suspicious. Also, I don't remember who's posted what in the thread because there are so many people to keep track of, therefore, anyone who might have been suspicious would have been more memorable (or their post would have been).

I had been mistaken last night. After I voted for what to investigate, the list of players became available to vote and I saw Epi said we had until midnight to vote so I was panicking that no one else was voting anyone else and so I wanted to vote no one. I didn't want to be responsible for casting the only vote, resulting in a lynch of that person who might have been civ.

[Marmot]

Spoiler: show

I don't think MovingPictures07 is acting suspiciously. I just think this is what happens when you have a player who is incredibly addicted to mafia and is not allowing himself to play often right now.

Metalmarsh, I assume you mean "this" as in I'm playing like OMG I'M SO SUPER EXCITED FOR THIS GAME, and if so, then yes, I imagine that my excitement is coming across in my posts.

Is that what you meant? :P

Precisely.

[Bass_the_Clever]

You've been winning a lot of games lately, Bass. WHo are you thinking of voting for?

I want to give Scotty a chance to respond to what I said about him before I decide who I want to vote for.

[Marmot]

Llama, why did you decide to poke me a lot today? Just curious.

Good question. I noticed you were in rather a literal mood, and I saw an opportunity to feel you out, so I took it. Your responses made me feel a lot better about you for what that's worth.
So far I feel good about:
MP
Golden
Russ

and I feel bad about:
G-Man
Sloonei

DH's not feeling like doing a rainbow list is noteworthy too, though not enough for a vote yet. I know I am always a little more apathetic about baddie hunting when I am myself bad.

Everyone else has yet to make a strong impression on me.

You've made a mistake llama. I am on neither of your lists.

[Cookie]

With regards to Cookie, since I'm the only person here who's got any familiarity with her as a player, I feel like I should offer what insight I can.

She comes from a fairly young mafia community and the games there are still a little um primitive, if that's not a mean thing to say, and, like she said, people tend to rely heavily on power roles and night actions and crazy bandwagon hunches and stuff. I've never played any games there, but I'm the one who introduced mafia on the site and have modded/spectated a bunch of games, and in my opinion Cookie is one of the the strongest players in the community (and one of the only ones who I felt comfortable enough with to invite here). I'm hella excited to see how she handles the more intense gameplay here and have full confidence in her abilities, but in fairness to her and everyone else it should be known that a lot of this is probably going to be new to her, but she's certainly not what the kids would call a "noob".

Hello Cookie, welcome. Give me a full list of reads on every player by noon tomorrow.

Sloon.. I'm scared.. Hold me.

Thanks for your kind words! I'm still getting used to the idea of scumhunting. I feel like a huge noob compared to MP and others. I'm looking forward to learning how to challenge people more in their posts.

There is a lot of new language and "reads" is new to me as well.

I have to go to work so I will post more later. Bye!!

[Bass_the_Clever]

MM who are you thinking about voting for?

[thellama73]

You've made a mistake llama. I am on neither of your lists.

Which one should you be on, and why?

[Marmot]

Sloon.. I'm scared.. Hold me.

Thanks for your kind words! I'm still getting used to the idea of scumhunting. I feel like a huge noob compared to MP and others. I'm looking forward to learning how to challenge people more in their posts.

There is a lot of new language and "reads" is new to me as well.

I have to go to work so I will post more later. Bye!!

Don't let MP get you down. He likes to smother you with his words. :P

By the way, anything catch your eye thus far? If y'all rely heavily on power roles and information and such, you guys probably don't do a whole lot on Day 1. Here, Day 1 tends to be very active, with the intent to catch a baddie at the get-go.

Do you have any reads on any players thus far?

Linki: llama, I should be on both lists because I am an enigma.

[thellama73]

Cookie, don't panic! You're doing great, and it will all seem like old news by the time the game is over.

[Marmot]

MM who are you thinking about voting for?

I don't know yet. I'm still observing. I also have to run to work here soon, but I've got a 3 hour window later I can sit down and take a look back (or catch up if things speed along again).

Stay tuned for more.

[Tangrowth]

Regarding the current state of the thread, I feel confident we can make this Day 1 productive, even if it is only 24 hours. I think we've done well so far, but like others, even despite having a handful of reads and trying my best to generate conversation, I still feel like I'm largely in observation mode, waiting for something to happen. And what leads I have uncovered, as slight as they are, I am cautious about pursuing aggressively, since none of them remotely strong by any means.

I'm most intrigued to hear from those who haven't committed to any reads just yet, since they are standing off to the side and chanting, in the words of Bender, "use teamwork!", while a few of us suckers actually try to start discussion on Day 0/Day 1.

That said, I'm not sure how long I can keep up pushing the discussion as intensely as I have been, since this takes time, and I have to attend to PhD work I ignore whenever I'm spending time mafiaing.

Spoiler: show

In response to MP's points toward me (my laptop is old and terrible and doing this thing where it takes a half hour just to start up, and I don't feel like waiting for that just so I can format a post more easily, so this is a messy phoned-in attempt at a post), I have so far only played with a G-man that is completely light and playful in all his posts (due to those reasons I mentioned earlier), so when I came in to the thread on Day 0 and saw him being perhaps the most active person in leading the discussion, regardless of how serious he says it was at the time, it was a very noticeable change in style for him. It is too minor a point to earn him a townie label just yet, but it was the strongest read I got in any direction after 3 pages of activity. "Sincere" was probably not the right word. "Active" or "aggressive"' would have been more accurate. I will hold off on commenting on the actual content of his posts until there's more of it.

Also I never expressed my suspicion of you while you were in BoB, I only mentioned it after Epi had subbed in for you. I can't find any of the posts (i made a lot of them in that game), but my point was essentially that I felt like your response to the fake truce banter on Day 0 felt a bit too preemptively defensive. Your behavior here reminded me vaguely of that.

Sloonei, thanks for elaborating! I will take your interpretation of G-Man's behavior into consideration.

Noted re: BoB. That's unfortunate, since I was really curious more than anything, but your point is taken nonetheless.

So you believe I've preemptively defensive?

Also, thanks for providing context with Cookie's mafia history, that's definitely helpful in developing a read on her.

Spoiler: show

Hey MP! I see you're one of those wordy, verbose types always with a smile on your face. You remind me of that big-eyed, bushy-tailed front desk attendant at the gym today. She was positively beaming when I walked in, so I asked her if she was recently hired, and she said she was the manager of that location and had been working there for 2 years. Goes to show that if you love your job, then you'll be just fine. Also that I apparently am blind if I missed her over the past year. But I digress.

It sounds like you love your job here. And I think that's pretty cool for the community. It's always cool to have a light in a dark, pixelated wasteland. (Note: This doesn't excuse you from suspicion, mind you. I have none at the moment..but down the line, don't think you can just bat your eyelashes and expect to let your voting patterns go unnoticed)

Seems we share the sentiment of eyeing no-shows in Day 1. I also want to clarify that I feel the day 1 vote is a crapshoot, but only in the sense that we don't know anything. You guys know how other regulars usually play, but I don't have that luxury, so, for instance, when MetalMarsh is incredibly vague and unhelpful in the first few days, and I get suspicious of that, someone informs me that "that's how he usually plays," and I've got conflicting feelings in that a) it is hearsay and b) what am I supposed to do with that information in regards to my reads?

Scotty, thanks for the comparison, haha. I do love playing mafia, that's for sure. Too much. :P And at times it can be very emotionally taxing and frustrating. But overall it's pretty freaking great.

The clarification is noted, that makes sense.

That's a good point re: lack of local knowledge. It's inevitable, in a way. That said, I would recommend that you pursue leads as you would normally, take others' input into account, but nonetheless pursue whom you find suspicious.

Do you think Metalmarsh has been suspicious this game? If so, can you point me to which posts you find "incredibly vague and unhelpful" and why you think that means Metalmarsh is a mafia member?

Spoiler: show

@MP, I'm glad you replied to me, as I didn't know that this was a speed game. I would not have joined if I had realized that. I've got friends coming in to visit for 4 days starting tomorrow so my participation is going to suck in the beginning of the game. But, I'm here, I'll try my best.

timmer, don't sweat it. I'm glad to be playing with you again! I know I'm not the only one.

Just contribute what you can and I look forward to hearing your thoughts and seeing how you cast your vote. You have some really great insight as an engaged civilian, so I'm particularly intrigued what's going on in your head once you get into the game.

Spoiler: show

Hey MP! I see you're one of those wordy, verbose types always with a smile on your face. You remind me of that big-eyed, bushy-tailed front desk attendant at the gym today. She was positively beaming when I walked in, so I asked her if she was recently hired, and she said she was the manager of that location and had been working there for 2 years. Goes to show that if you love your job, then you'll be just fine. Also that I apparently am blind if I missed her over the past year. But I digress.

It sounds like you love your job here. And I think that's pretty cool for the community. It's always cool to have a light in a dark, pixelated wasteland. (Note: This doesn't excuse you from suspicion, mind you. I have none at the moment..but down the line, don't think you can just bat your eyelashes and expect to let your voting patterns go unnoticed)

Seems we share the sentiment of eyeing no-shows in Day 1. I also want to clarify that I feel the day 1 vote is a crapshoot, but only in the sense that we don't know anything. You guys know how other regulars usually play, but I don't have that luxury, so, for instance, when MetalMarsh is incredibly vague and unhelpful in the first few days, and I get suspicious of that, someone informs me that "that's how he usually plays," and I've got conflicting feelings in that a) it is hearsay and b) what am I supposed to do with that information in regards to my reads?

I'm voting for the Comedian’s gun.
I also think I will be voting MM day one. He always seems like he is bad. lol

Thats was a joke.

That was a terrible joke. No offense.
I'm looking forward to what you have to offer in Day 1, Bass.

This post seems off to me and its not because you didn't like my joke. Almost this whole post is you trying to get on MP's good side. I have seen mafia do this in the past early in games. They suck up to a vocal player who they think comes across civvie.

Bass, this is an interesting observation. I love that you're jumping right in on the baddie hunting action!

You think Scotty is sucking up to me and that indicates he has nefarious intentions, correct? I will admit that I have seen mafia buddying up before, and I've done it myself (I've buddied up to Llama more than a few times as mafia). Do you think I have enough civilian cred at the moment that to justify your point of view?

Would you feel better about Scotty than you do now if he had contributed a suspect in addition to his post you address here?

Spoiler: show

So did anyone get anything from the day zero poll?

Bass, I have not received anything as a result of the Day 0 poll. I would say that we should clarify with the host, but it seems Epignosis said to discuss such things at our own risk, so I am naturally a bit hesitant.

Nonetheless, I'm not sure I see the harm in discussing the Day 0 poll at this time.

Spoiler: show

I've got about 10 more minutes before I unplug for the night. Any questions?

Are you a member of mafia?

I am not a member of the mafia.
I am not Moloch.
My role does not pose a threat to the civvies.

Interesting phrasing. Not "I am a civvie" but "My role does not pose a threat"

Llama, I agree that G-Man's phrasing in several posts, including this one, have been odd, as if he can't justify lying outright. However, wouldn't that quickly sink him if he actually is mafia? Would he play it that riskily?

In addition, is it possible that G-Man has rather unconventional and literal phrasing in his typical posting behavior? What do you think?

Spoiler: show

Llama, why did you decide to poke me a lot today? Just curious.

Good question. I noticed you were in rather a literal mood, and I saw an opportunity to feel you out, so I took it. Your responses made me feel a lot better about you for what that's worth.
So far I feel good about:
MP
Golden
Russ

and I feel bad about:
G-Man
Sloonei

DH's not feeling like doing a rainbow list is noteworthy too, though not enough for a vote yet. I know I am always a little more apathetic about baddie hunting when I am myself bad.

Everyone else has yet to make a strong impression on me.

Llama, thanks, your explanation seems sincere and logical in light of your posts. Perhaps there was a reason I was taking everything so seriously.

I am curious: Can you elaborate on your reads? Why do you feel good about Golden? More significantly, why do you feel good about Russ?

I noted Sloonei as one of my two slightly mafia reads in my first Rainbow List. You seem to have the same two suspects. I know why you suspect G-Man, but why Sloonei? I'm particularly hoping you can articulate in as much detail as possible regarding Sloonei, since I'm having trouble fully explaining why he has pinged my radar.

Regarding DH: I don't find it out of character at all that he wouldn't want to use rainbow lists. DH is definitely an aggressive baddie hunter, but he does like to play some cards close to the chest, and doesn't like to play by anyone else's rules but his own. He is currently a null read from me, until I see just a bit more from him, since everything aligns with what I would consider his normal meta. He is a crafty baddie, so I've been hesitant to raise him to very slightly civilian read, but I'm getting there.

Speaking of DharmaHelper, can you elaborate on any of the reads you have made just yet, or are you still forming them? I've noted what you've said thus far, but I'm a bit unclear on whom you're considering for your vote at the moment.

Spoiler: show

I don't think G-Man is suspicious because, at this point, I don't suspect anyone's posts to be suspicious. Also, I don't remember who's posted what in the thread because there are so many people to keep track of, therefore, anyone who might have been suspicious would have been more memorable (or their post would have been).

I had been mistaken last night. After I voted for what to investigate, the list of players became available to vote and I saw Epi said we had until midnight to vote so I was panicking that no one else was voting anyone else and so I wanted to vote no one. I didn't want to be responsible for casting the only vote, resulting in a lynch of that person who might have been civ.

Cookie, as others have noted, don't sweat it! I've played mafia for 5 years, and even still, I don't think I'm a particularly good player, especially as a civilian. I've been making a conscious effort as much as possible to improve and reinvent my style within the past few months, since playing at other sites, most notably RYM, has introduced me to new approaches to the game that impressed me with the possibility of their effectiveness.

Thanks for elaborating re: G-Man, so if I understand correctly, you would have a list with every player in the game and no player would be no more or less suspicious than any other?

I understand completely! Don't worry. Especially when playing with new players, and especially since the game has been pretty active so far. I look forward to hearing when you do start developing any reads at all, even if you feel far from confident about them.

In my opinion, a town has nothing to lose by being transparent, so it's best to lay what you're thinking, even if you're hesitant to commit to it, out in the open, so that discussion can occur. Mafia are caught by having to lie, and it's harder and harder for a mafia member to lie if they have to keep fabricating reads and responses to more and more players and discussion.

Oh, got it! Epi was referring to the Day 0 poll. We have a little over 10 hours now to vote.

[Scotty]

Hey MP! I see you're one of those wordy, verbose types always with a smile on your face. You remind me of that big-eyed, bushy-tailed front desk attendant at the gym today. She was positively beaming when I walked in, so I asked her if she was recently hired, and she said she was the manager of that location and had been working there for 2 years. Goes to show that if you love your job, then you'll be just fine. Also that I apparently am blind if I missed her over the past year. But I digress.

It sounds like you love your job here. And I think that's pretty cool for the community. It's always cool to have a light in a dark, pixelated wasteland. (Note: This doesn't excuse you from suspicion, mind you. I have none at the moment..but down the line, don't think you can just bat your eyelashes and expect to let your voting patterns go unnoticed)

Seems we share the sentiment of eyeing no-shows in Day 1. I also want to clarify that I feel the day 1 vote is a crapshoot, but only in the sense that we don't know anything. You guys know how other regulars usually play, but I don't have that luxury, so, for instance, when MetalMarsh is incredibly vague and unhelpful in the first few days, and I get suspicious of that, someone informs me that "that's how he usually plays," and I've got conflicting feelings in that a) it is hearsay and b) what am I supposed to do with that information in regards to my reads?

I'm voting for the Comedian’s gun.
I also think I will be voting MM day one. He always seems like he is bad. lol

Thats was a joke.

That was a terrible joke. No offense.
I'm looking forward to what you have to offer in Day 1, Bass.

This post seems off to me and its not because you didn't like my joke. Almost this whole post is you trying to get on MP's good side. I have seen mafia do this in the past early in games. They suck up to a vocal player who they think comes across civvie.

I don't see this as sucking up at all. You'll notice that I have this weird tendency to apply gameplay and reads to my real life in the forms of short stories sometimes. Partly because I'm neurotic, partly because I'm eccentric, and partly because I'm neurotic.

My poking you was because of how I saw you play in the last game, and I want to see you explain more behind your votes/statements before I start accusing you and making the same mistake I made last time. Just generally talking more will do.
It was just that you had 3 posts at the time, and you chose to use MM as a piñata, so it piqued my curiosity.

Now that I've responded, are you currently suspecting anyone?

[Tangrowth]

I'll be back later. I have so much to accomplish, so I'm going to try to force myself not to come back until at least the late afternoon or evening. For anyone that has ANY reads whatsoever, that hasn't voiced them yet, I am literally dying to hear them. I'm incredibly intrigued.

I know everyone will play their own way, so I'm not trying to push people to play any way that they aren't comfortable with, but I strongly believe in trying to develop reads through discussion, and like DH, my head will explode if I see a ton of bandwagon votes with hardly any explanation, random votes, self-votes, etc.

For anyone who actually is willing to create a Rainbow List (I'm becoming convinced they're a love/hate thing, no in between), I'd be more than happy to check out your rainbow, if you know what I mean.

[Scotty]

Spoiler: show

Hey MP! I see you're one of those wordy, verbose types always with a smile on your face. You remind me of that big-eyed, bushy-tailed front desk attendant at the gym today. She was positively beaming when I walked in, so I asked her if she was recently hired, and she said she was the manager of that location and had been working there for 2 years. Goes to show that if you love your job, then you'll be just fine. Also that I apparently am blind if I missed her over the past year. But I digress.

It sounds like you love your job here. And I think that's pretty cool for the community. It's always cool to have a light in a dark, pixelated wasteland. (Note: This doesn't excuse you from suspicion, mind you. I have none at the moment..but down the line, don't think you can just bat your eyelashes and expect to let your voting patterns go unnoticed)

Seems we share the sentiment of eyeing no-shows in Day 1. I also want to clarify that I feel the day 1 vote is a crapshoot, but only in the sense that we don't know anything. You guys know how other regulars usually play, but I don't have that luxury, so, for instance, when MetalMarsh is incredibly vague and unhelpful in the first few days, and I get suspicious of that, someone informs me that "that's how he usually plays," and I've got conflicting feelings in that a) it is hearsay and b) what am I supposed to do with that information in regards to my reads?

Scotty, thanks for the comparison, haha. I do love playing mafia, that's for sure. Too much. :P And at times it can be very emotionally taxing and frustrating. But overall it's pretty freaking great.

The clarification is noted, that makes sense.

That's a good point re: lack of local knowledge. It's inevitable, in a way. That said, I would recommend that you pursue leads as you would normally, take others' input into account, but nonetheless pursue whom you find suspicious.

Do you think Metalmarsh has been suspicious this game? If so, can you point me to which posts you find "incredibly vague and unhelpful" and why you think that means Metalmarsh is a mafia member?

My reference to MM there was in regards to his play in BoB, where he didn't answer some of my questions with [what I perceived to be] helpful answers, but then someone let me know that he didn't really start bearing down until late-game. So I still had my eye on him, but I also still had to figure out what to do with that information. Doesn't matter now, I just died in that game.
But people's meta-game, their "usual" play is what bothers me, because I can't relate when looking at most of the people.

This game, I haven't gotten pings from MM. As a stand-alone game, he's an affable guy that has used an emoticon in 28 out of his 36 posts. A majority are one-liner jokes. He's never seemed like the long-winded and thorough Sloonei type, but this is the type of play I guess I was talking about. Sort of...unhelpful, I guess? (most of it was in Day 0, so )

I find Ricochet suspicious for lurking and not posting.

Are you serious or kidding?

I'm ambiguous.

I mean that about sums him up today for me. I'm only mildly suspicious atm, but that may change by the end of day.

I want to hear from Ricochet, who hasn't posted in a while, and from what he (he?) posted, there's still a LOT to be desired.

I don't watch the show but very nice! I promise not to policy lynch you Day 1.

Cool. wake me up when d1

Wake up.

Also, this seems like a cop-out. "Oh, well maybe I can coast by since at least GMan isn't going to policy-lynch me"

I'm not a big fan of coasters. I once got stuck on Superman in Six Flags for 45 minutes. Try digging your fist into your crotch for a half hour. That's what it felt like, and I'm grateful the old faucet still drips. So no thank you. I'll only be riding Batman from here on out.

[thellama73]

Llama, I agree that G-Man's phrasing in several posts, including this one, have been odd, as if he can't justify lying outright. However, wouldn't that quickly sink him if he actually is mafia? Would he play it that riskily?

In addition, is it possible that G-Man has rather unconventional and literal phrasing in his typical posting behavior? What do you think?

Wouldn't it quickly sink him to claim to be a Watchman on Day 1 if he actually was one? It's asking for an NK. People always make fun of my "Are you bad" type questions, but a shocking number of people have trouble actually flat out lying and I have caught baddies with it before. Therefore, I always think those kind of answers are telling.

Llama, thanks, your explanation seems sincere and logical in light of your posts. Perhaps there was a reason I was taking everything so seriously.

I am curious: Can you elaborate on your reads? Why do you feel good about Golden? More significantly, why do you feel good about Russ?

I noted Sloonei as one of my two slightly mafia reads in my first Rainbow List. You seem to have the same two suspects. I know why you suspect G-Man, but why Sloonei? I'm particularly hoping you can articulate in as much detail as possible regarding Sloonei, since I'm having trouble fully explaining why he has pinged my radar.

Regarding DH: I don't find it out of character at all that he wouldn't want to use rainbow lists. DH is definitely an aggressive baddie hunter, but he does like to play some cards close to the chest, and doesn't like to play by anyone else's rules but his own. He is currently a null read from me, until I see just a bit more from him, since everything aligns with what I would consider his normal meta. He is a crafty baddie, so I've been hesitant to raise him to very slightly civilian read, but I'm getting there.

My read on Sloonei honestly has to do with the use of smilies and adverbs. I know it seems silly, but there is some truth to it, particularly the smiley part, and the fact that he was self-conscious about it makes it worse.

I feel good about Golden because a) his posts seem in character for him and b) he agreed with my read on G-Man for largely the same reasons as me.

I agree with you on DH. I just thought it was worth mentioning.

[Scotty]

Llama, I agree that G-Man's phrasing in several posts, including this one, have been odd, as if he can't justify lying outright. However, wouldn't that quickly sink him if he actually is mafia? Would he play it that riskily?

In addition, is it possible that G-Man has rather unconventional and literal phrasing in his typical posting behavior? What do you think?

Wouldn't it quickly sink him to claim to be a Watchman on Day 1 if he actually was one? It's asking for an NK. People always make fun of my "Are you bad" type questions, but a shocking number of people have trouble actually flat out lying and I have caught baddies with it before. Therefore, I always think those kind of answers are telling.

Note that The Comedian's win condition is getting NK'd.

[Tangrowth]

Thanks for elaborating, Scotty and Llama!

I don't suspect Sloonei for the adverbs, but there's something off about him I can't quite put my finger on, though it's possible I am way off the mark here. He's playing to his meta, but he has made a couple of statements that have struck me as him trying too hard to meet his own meta.

I know that allegation sucks, since I've been hit with it before, and it's what sunk Golden in economics because the baddies wanted him gone, but I have pointed out a couple of posts previously, and for now I'm going to take a backseat and let the Day develop while I get some stuff done, so I'm officially pushing Sloonei back to my no read section.

Needless to say, if I can't articulate why I suspect him and why he would be worthy of my note, I won't be voting for him. Nonetheless, I wanted I see what everyone thought of h, especially those who have seen him play or played with him before.

Unfortunately, I'm only left with GMan, so whenever I do come back (seriously forcing myself now), I'm going to try to critically analyze folks more so.

The only downside to having so much autonomy over my own work, despite there being A LOT of it is that it is entirely dictated by my own self-discipline... And I have trouble saying No to logging onto the site "just to check it" when I'm stuck on SAS coding.

Also, Llama, can you elaborate on Russ? I have him as a null read.

[Tangrowth]

Oh, and I was under the impression that the Watchmen were civilians that had to satisfy an additional win con, but didn't have to be alive to win. Nonetheless I assumed they still needed the baddies gone, just like the normal civilians who have to be alive to win, not independents that don't care if the mafia wins.

Can Epi clear this up?

[Epignosis]

Watchmen (6)
Unlike the Civilians, Watchmen have superior abilities, but have an additional win condition. Also, unlike the Civilians, Watchmen do not need to be alive at the end to win.

The win conditions are not in lieu of, but in addition to.

[Scotty]

I don't think G-Man is suspicious because, at this point, I don't suspect anyone's posts to be suspicious. Also, I don't remember who's posted what in the thread because there are so many people to keep track of, therefore, anyone who might have been suspicious would have been more memorable (or their post would have been).

I had been mistaken last night. After I voted for what to investigate, the list of players became available to vote and I saw Epi said we had until midnight to vote so I was panicking that no one else was voting anyone else and so I wanted to vote no one. I didn't want to be responsible for casting the only vote, resulting in a lynch of that person who might have been civ.

Awww

So hey Epi, I don't know if it's possible but can we get a post on the front page with the players' full post in the thread like we had in BoB? I'm not entirely sure how to format that.

And Cookie, no sweat! In the meantime, there's a little link under everyone's post count that says (View: All/ In Topic). I use the In Topic all the time when looking at specific posts people said.

[Epignosis]

So hey Epi, I don't know if it's possible but can we get a post on the front page with the players' full post in the thread like we had in BoB? I'm not entirely sure how to format that.

Of course. I fathered that trend, after all. I generally do it once Day 1 is underway.

[Scotty]

So hey Epi, I don't know if it's possible but can we get a post on the front page with the players' full post in the thread like we had in BoB? I'm not entirely sure how to format that.

Of course. I fathered that trend, after all. I generally do it once Day 1 is underway.

mahhh neighbah Thanky!

[G-Man]

In briefly during lunch. Please ask your questions now. I'm going to pick up from my last post and respond to any questions in one long post of replies.

[Scotty]

A policy lynch of a complete no-show is practically the only one I will support. I hope that doesn't happen here though.

You're telling me you've never voted low posters for the sake of them being low posters?

Personally, I have a "policy no-lynch". Which is, I avoid lynching on d1 people I know are really good at the game, unless I have a strong reason to.

I like this policy. I've been known to randomize on Day 1, vote for low posters, etc. I honestly don't see anything wrong with voting for those who aren't participating. If you sign up....PLAY! Am I right?

Totally right.
Elohcin: 2 posts.

[Scotty]

I've got about 10 more minutes before I unplug for the night. Any questions?

Are you a member of mafia?

I am not a member of the mafia.
I am not Moloch.
My role does not pose a threat to the civvies.

If you're going to be straight up, why phrase it like that? Are you trying to be NK'd?

[nijuukyugou]

I'm just gonna talk. It's gonna get a little stream-of-conscious-y, so I hope y'all don't mind.

Personally, I have a "policy no-lynch". Which is, I avoid lynching on d1 people I know are really good at the game, unless I have a strong reason to.

I like this policy.

I don't. Good players won't usually give you a good reason to vote them on Day 1. If they did, they probably wouldn't be on you 'good players' list. Giving a pass to "good players" is bad. While I realize that you're are not saying that you wouldn't put pressure on or look closely at a "good player" Day 1, you are in a way creating a class of people who are worthy of a free pass. You better believe they take advantage of that charity every time they can.

In writing, there's a phrase: "murder your darlings." Don't be afraid to apply that here. Heaven knows the baddies do it all the time.

Agree with this. Don't ever give mafia a reason to act like or be something - they'll use it to their advantage every time.

Also, I ain't doing no rainbow list. Fuck that noise.

For anyone that has ANY reads whatsoever, that hasn't voiced them yet, I am literally dying to hear them. I'm incredibly intrigued.

Oh dear. You might want to get to a doctor

Since G-Man is prominent in the conversation, I'll include my two cents. I'm torn about him. I agree that he seemed to take the comments in jest about "policy lynching" him Day 1 (P.S., I hadn't heard the term "policy lynch" until this game, but I understand the concept now), which could point to defensiveness. But then again, I empathize with the feeling of being bombarded, in jest or not - it can get rather irritating regardless of alignment, so I'd probably react negatively eventually. But now that I'm re-reading him again, he doesn't sound as irritated in his posts that I previously thought, so I agree with a lot of the points he's been making about mafia in general. He hasn't made any accusations (just an idea to lynch Golden for shits and giggles), but that's pretty normal for Day 1. I think. So, in conclusion, I'm less torn and more...observant and wary, really, since his name is being brought up.

I've always found the concept of using too many adverbs as a sign of baddiness intriguing. Smileys I understand. I like llama's line of thinking, especially for a Day 1 vote. While Days 1 are some people's favorite hunting days, I hate them with a passion, so sometimes you gotta go with whatever you can without a vote record - silence/hiding, evasiveness, or someone profusely and excessively using adverbs and smileys to a great extent I crack myself up

I'm done now. I'll be back after a day trip to Asheville to discuss and vote and stuff.

[Elohcin]

You're telling me you've never voted low posters for the sake of them being low posters?

Hello, Elo! Glad to be playing with you again. I assure you that I won't rage at you this time.

That is a very good question. Thinking back through the last 5 years of mafia games, it is difficult for me to answer that question one way or the other with absolute confidence. Off the top of my head, I cannot recall any instances where I voted a player on Day 1 solely for being a low poster. It's more possible I did so as the game progressed. There may have been one or two in the last few years. I almost always find a reason for my Day 1 vote, and that alone has gotten me heat significantly in the past, since players found such reasons to be "forced" or "trying too hard". That said, I haven't come up against that accusation in the past year or so as much as I used to.

Regarding how I feel anymore about voting low or no posters on Day 1, I tend to prefer voting a no show over a low poster on Day 1, especially if that player seems unlikely to show subsequently, and has not given any reason for their absence. If instead we leave that person alive, then every day that goes by and they still do not show, they are not helping the civilians via discussion or voting, even if they are civilian, and they become an element that can never be analyzed at crucial later stages of the game (like LyLo). This is in contrast to a low poster, who has shown up in the thread, and is contributing to the game, even if very barely. I prefer to give those players at least a couple of Days until I consider lynching them for lack of content, since at least there is room to analyze their behavior. Of course, both of these depend on a case by case situation, and what the low poster says may cause me to find them suspicious in the content itself. Likewise, there may be reasons to vote someone I genuinely suspect over a no or low poster.

Does that answer your question adequately?

Nope. I don't think you elaborated enough.

WHAT HAVE YOU ALL DONE WHY ARE THERE ALREADY 7 PAGES

I'm going to bed. I'll catch up with this tomorrow

You know, I've been in bed now for 2 hours. One of the biggest mistakes I ever made was bringing my laptop with me. Good on you, ninja

I bring my laptop to bed with me just about every night. Mafia and/or tv are great activities for after I put the kids to bed.

I've got about 10 more minutes before I unplug for the night. Any questions?

Are you a member of mafia?

I am not a member of the mafia.
I am not Moloch.
My role does not pose a threat to the civvies.

Interesting phrasing. Not "I am a civvie" but "My role does not pose a threat"

You know....I thought the same thing when I read his post. I didn't say anything b/c I wanted to watch his behavior and see what I could observe.

@G-Man - Are you a civilian?


So...overall, my reads are....
I am feeling good about:
Cookie - she seems too overwhelmed to have a team.
DDL - seems too comfortable to be bad atm
MP - very friendly and helpful which seems good to me
Golden - I have a hard time reading golden often, but I *think* I am seeing a good golden

I am feeling uneasy about:
G-Man - does not claim to be civ (may be a watchman - those with the additional win condition) but possibly Mafia
Sloonei - Just something about him reads scummy to me. Can't put my finger on it.

I still have no clue who I will vote today. There are still so many quiet players. But, time to go burn some calories I will be back later.

linki niju -
MovingPictures07 wrote:
For anyone that has ANY reads whatsoever, that hasn't voiced them yet, I am literally dying to hear them. I'm incredibly intrigued.
Niju wrote:
Oh dear. You might want to get to a doctor

[Sloonei]

My read on Sloonei honestly has to do with the use of smilies and adverbs. I know it seems silly, but there is some truth to it, particularly the smiley part, and the fact that he was self-conscious about it makes it worse.

We have not played together before, but you have hosted both of the Syndicate games I have played prior to this one. How much attention did you pay to those games? Are you familiar at all with my playstyle, or in this case, my writing style? What do you know about me as a player?
Also, what is the rationale behind this adverb/smiley theory?

[Sloonei]

@Elohcin, if you looked through my posts, would you be able to put your finger on what's scummy about me? I do not mind being called scummy, but only when there are reasons attached to the label.

[Scotty]

for instance, if a talkative player was contributing a lot on Day 1 but says something fishy, isn't there merit in lynching that person over someone who posts little more than "yay game" and "catching up"? I'm not suggesting lynching a "good player" because they are a "good player." What I'm saying is that we shouldn't give "good players" a free pass at all. We shouldn't be afraid to lynch them early- even on Day 1 if there's merit.

IF they say something obviously fishy that can lead to a reasonable lynch.

But on D1, that's incredibly rare, and most votes as based on BS.

And if I am to cast a BS vote, knowing full well I'm probably taking down an innocent civilian, I'd rather have that likely civilian be someone who has a lower chance of helping town winning the game.

It's not about giving good players a free pass. It's about not playing russian roulette with players who are more likely to be good assets. Once we get to D2, when actual data is available and better cases can be made, nobody is getting a free pass.

i don't agree with this. on rym, we've had day 1 mafia lynches in 3 of the last 4 games. from what I've seen it's easier to read mafia players on tone early game, before they've had a chance to settle into the game. it's true that there's nothing hard to go off yet, but that doesn't mean we should settle for a policy lynch. if we approach day 1 like that it'll be a waste.

Espers, just based on tone, who feels fishy right now to you?

So...overall, my reads are....
I am feeling good about:
Cookie - she seems too overwhelmed to have a team.
DDL - seems too comfortable to be bad atm
MP - very friendly and helpful which seems good to me
Golden - I have a hard time reading golden often, but I *think* I am seeing a good golden

I am feeling uneasy about:
G-Man - does not claim to be civ (may be a watchman - those with the additional win condition) but possibly Mafia
Sloonei - Just something about him reads scummy to me. Can't put my finger on it.

I still have no clue who I will vote today. There are still so many quiet players. But, time to go burn some calories I will be back later.

Question on your read of DDL: Why does being overly comfortable suggest good? He (he?) hasn't really received any heat to not feel comfortable. I also feel pretty comfortable. I'm relaxing in a hammock right now for godsakes. I'm the EPITOME of comfortable. Why not feel good about me? (rhetorical question)

I'm willing to let Cookie's anxiety pass for now. Sloonei said she comes from a more "primitive" forum or some such, so I'm willing to let her adjust to the advent of the wheel and fire before delving into her. I am looking for her to give some reactions in the coming days though.

And I'm off to work. See y'all in 7 hours!

[Sloonei]

I did not realize the day (and presumably all days) would be 24 hours long. I have not played anything shorter than 48 hour days in ages. I'm going to need to pick it up, but I don't think I'll have enough time to get anywhere near being comfortable wih my vote. I'll do my best though.

[Sloonei]

Scotty, you have been active in the discussion and prodded a lot of people. Surely you must have quite a few things to say about players at this point. Who are your suspectd in this early phase? Why?

It appears I will be gone for work by the time you get back to answer this.

[Sloonei]

@ ninnyjuju, you said you are "intrigued" by the theory about scums using more adverbs and smilies than others. That theory was brought up to be used against me. What do you think of me? As a player in this game, I mean.

[Sloonei]

Spoiler: show

After catching up on the thread, I have a few small things to say:

1) I'm new to this site so don't think I am a good candidate for policy voting (please), for those of you who support it.
2) I've never heard policy voting but I think it's good to identify that problem within mafia games. I've always hated it and having to explain that, in terms of probability, we are more likely to lynch a townie. That being said, I do not support it in any way.
3) I don't think G-Man is suspicious. Having said that, I barely remember who posted what because everyone is new to me. It's easier if I knew people and can put a personality to the post, so when I get to know everyone a bit more, I will be able to scumhunt more efficiently.
4) How do I vote not to lynch someone? On the site I use, we vote "no lynch." Is there an alternative name for it here or do I just not vote?

Welcome, Cookie!

Why do you not think G-Man is suspicious? Can you elaborate?

Why would you want to vote a "no lynch"?

I don't think G-Man is suspicious because, at this point, I don't suspect anyone's posts to be suspicious. Also, I don't remember who's posted what in the thread because there are so many people to keep track of, therefore, anyone who might have been suspicious would have been more memorable (or their post would have been).

Has there been anything at all that caught your eye about anyone or anything in particular? Even the littlest thought can be substantial early in the game. Don't overthink things and just look at the thread. Who seems more sincere to you?

I had been mistaken last night. After I voted for what to investigate, the list of players became available to vote and I saw Epi said we had until midnight to vote so I was panicking that no one else was voting anyone else and so I wanted to vote no one. I didn't want to be responsible for casting the only vote, resulting in a lynch of that person who might have been civ.

the polls will change every day, that's how we vote rather than simply stating it in the thread. Makes it a lot easier to keep track of That said, it's still customary to state your vote in the thread once you've made it, just to let everyone know where and when (and preferably why) you voted. Also, votes are not changeable, so once you pick someone, it stays there the rest of the day. I prefer to hold onto mine as long as possible and everyone else should too.

[Sloonei]

I did not realize the day (and presumably all days) would be 24 hours long. I have not played anything shorter than 48 hour days in ages. I'm going to need to pick it up, but I don't think I'll have enough time to get anywhere near being comfortable wih my vote. I'll do my best though.

The "i don't think i'll have time to get comfortable" bit was with regards to this day phase only. Subsequent days will be better, though i've still got closing shifts every night this week.

[G-Man]

I just closed the wrong tab and lost everything.

We need a smiley with tears streaming down its face for such an occasion as this. My eyes are literally watering up right now.

Long story short- I usually try to be very intentional about the words I use. This post:

I've got about 10 more minutes before I unplug for the night. Any questions?

Are you a member of mafia?

I am not a member of the mafia.
I am not Moloch.
My role does not pose a threat to the civvies.

...was worded as such because I wasn't sure if declaring myself a Civilian was in bounds with our host. I thought that, since there is a distinction between Civilians and Watchmen (even though they potentially share a common interest), Epi might not want me to claim to be a Civilian because it comes too close to roleclaiming by way of seriously limiting the number of roles that I could be. Since you guys are all but checking me for polyps over it, I have cleared it with Epi and I can now tell you that:

I am a Civilian.


So much for checking in quick. Now that I've lost an hour of productivity at work I have to go. At this rate, I cannot even guarantee that I'll make it back to vote. I'm not going to vote now because I have nothing on anyone and I don't really want to dig myself into an even deeper hole, if that is really the common perception of me. I'm not giving the opportunists any ammunition to use against me.

If you guys end up lynching me, let these be my dying words:

I'm sorry I let you down.

[Sloonei]

Anyone else who's got thoughts to share right now can and should also. I'm lonely, and have only got four hours left until I need to cast a vote on this abbreviated day. I would prefer to have at least a moderately formed opinion on somebody.

linki: Hello G-man, it's wonderul to see you!

[Sloonei]

Oh never mind, bye. I'm gonna share your desire for a tearful emoji now, just ain't cutting it

[Sloonei]

I do not currently have you as a suspect G-man, which is actually saying something in your case because you're one of the few people who's posted enough to bave anything to go off of.
I did not have any bad feelings about your wording with regards to your role, and I feel like it's an odd thing to be suspicious of, but it's Day 1 and I do not object to its being brought up. I simply saw it as a player making the routine empty remarks about not being bad. Your phrasing changes very little. I am also not bad. So is everyone else.
We do have at least a 1-shot lie detector in this game, for what it's worth.

[LoRab]

I'm of 2 minds with the GMan stuff.

On the one hand, back in the day (when GMan was a regular) on LP/Piano, lie detector roles and statements became a thing and how people phrase statements and asking everyone to make "An LD Statement" became something of a controversy. In addition/as a result, in many games, "I am a civie" wasn't a detectable statement, so people would often not use it and got in the habit of not just saying that.

That being said, the way he phrased it doesn't sound like a way a civie would describe themselves, even with phrasing it differently. What he posted earlier sounds like something that is a baddie trying to describe themselves with a true statement on a technicality (like, if they don't have a power that can be used to harm a civie, they technically aren't a threat). And his explanation doesn't ring so true to me.

There are also roles with secrets, and we don't know how those statements might have an impact on an LD role. He could have been waiting for clarification on how a statement of "I am a civie" would show up. on G Man. Leaning towards a vote in that direction.

[Sloonei]

I'm of 2 minds with the GMan stuff.

On the one hand, back in the day (when GMan was a regular) on LP/Piano, lie detector roles and statements became a thing and how people phrase statements and asking everyone to make "An LD Statement" became something of a controversy. In addition/as a result, in many games, "I am a civie" wasn't a detectable statement, so people would often not use it and got in the habit of not just saying that.

That being said, the way he phrased it doesn't sound like a way a civie would describe themselves, even with phrasing it differently. What he posted earlier sounds like something that is a baddie trying to describe themselves with a true statement on a technicality (like, if they don't have a power that can be used to harm a civie, they technically aren't a threat). And his explanation doesn't ring so true to me.

There are also roles with secrets, and we don't know how those statements might have an impact on an LD role. He could have been waiting for clarification on how a statement of "I am a civie" would show up. on G Man. Leaning towards a vote in that direction.

Do you think a scum player would voluntarily leave such an honest statement in the thread like that? It's incredibly easy for a baddie to simply say "I'm not bad", and I have a hars time believing that G-man's conscience would have gotten to him that much, if that is what you are saying in part.

Do you have your eye on anyone other than G-man?

[Elohcin]

Sloonei, as I read all your posts together, I am failing to find anything that sticks out to me as scummy. I am not sure what gave me that vibe while reading the thread. I will table this gut feeling for now.

Reading through your posts did give me this though...

The two games i've played with G-man were Economics (where he was town but posted entirely in pictures for the whole game) and Bullets over Broadway (where he was scum and replaced in after Day 2 or 3.......

I hosted G-Man in Guess Who and he tried a thing where he would begin each new post with the next letter of the alphabet.

I really don't have time atm to look at his posts in Bullets over Broadway or the other games he has played in but I am wondering what posting fun he tried to have in the other games he's played. I wonder if he even tries to do something funky with his posts if he is bad or if being on a team and having people to talk to BTS is enough for him to keep a game interesting. I don't see any themes running through his posts in this game, but I could be missing it. It's something to think about.

G-Man, do you do posting themes in each game despite your alighment? If so, can you tell us what you did in BoB when you were mafia?

[Sloonei]

Sloonei, as I read all your posts together, I am failing to find anything that sticks out to me as scummy. I am not sure what gave me that vibe while reading the thread. I will table this gut feeling for now.

Reading through your posts did give me this though...

The two games i've played with G-man were Economics (where he was town but posted entirely in pictures for the whole game) and Bullets over Broadway (where he was scum and replaced in after Day 2 or 3.......

I hosted G-Man in Guess Who and he tried a thing where he would begin each new post with the next letter of the alphabet.

I really don't have time atm to look at his posts in Bullets over Broadway or the other games he has played in but I am wondering what posting fun he tried to have in the other games he's played. I wonder if he even tries to do something funky with his posts if he is bad or if being on a team and having people to talk to BTS is enough for him to keep a game interesting. I don't see any themes running through his posts in this game, but I could be missing it. It's something to think about.

G-Man, do you do posting themes in each game despite your alighment? If so, can you tell us what you did in BoB when you were mafia?

G-man, you continue to be my hero.
In BoB it was hard to read into his posts at all. He subbed in on Day 2 or 3 for a scum player (gamerguy) who was one of the thread's most popular suspects before he had subbed out. So G-man was a dead man walking from the moment he showed up, and he knew it. I just noticed a marked change (he seems more engaged) this time around than in my previous games with him. I'll start digging through his content later, but for now I do not feel there's enough of it for me to get anywhere.

Who do you think you might vote for today now that i'm off the table?