Watchmen [ENDGAME]

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Er... how do I search anybody's posts in a topic?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I was very disheartened when I saw that Nite Owl II (most likely), or Nite Owl I (less likely), or Moloch (????) used the ability to shrink the poll options to four today. IMO, it was an incredibly poor move, especially coming off of the lynch of a talkative mafia on D1, where analyzing all players today would have been optimal. I also do not think the four players selected were chosen well, and I think that all four very well could be civilians. Oh well.

I have to agree here. I'm not gonna avoid responsibility for my own mislynch, but the Nite Owl thing really ruined the day phase. Everybody was forced to focus on those 4 players, with opinions on the others being out of focus, and a lot of mafiosos, if not all of them, were given a free day.

Myself, I had a gut feeling that Golden could be a mislynch, mainly because of the "too sloppy for a baddie" thing. But I looked at posts from the other three guys, and couldn't find any particular reason to vote for any of them. While for Golden, the reason was the one I had pointed out before: the defense of Sloonei and the insistence of voting with him. So, when faced with one weak reason to vote versus no reason at all, I applied simple logic and voted him. The choice was very easy for me, but it was not a choice that gave me the feeling that it was the right one. Yet, none of the other three would, either.

Had more players been on the poll, I'd have tried to compare him with other possible suspects who I could also vote for.

[Tangrowth]

DDL click the "in topic" below someone's post count in the thread

I also want to say I'm very interested to hear from Cookie! This game has been all kinds of intense and I bet she's feeling overwhelmed, but I want to engage her to see what she's thinking

[Dragon D. Luffy]

What are your suspects? Would you be willing and able to give me a Rainbow List?

Eh... I'm not really into rainbow lists.

I don't have any big suspect at the moment, but I have a few small ones I could try to pursue today:

- espers: As explained in night 1. His vote on D1 was useless, and his change of focus from me to the mafioso being lynched (having shown no suspicion of him beforehand) looked very opportunistic. He wasn't active on D2, so my opinion of him remains the same.

- DharmaHelper: his votes are pretty random. He gives me a feeling of being kind of disconnected to the game, focusing on things nobody else is, but not minding the fact the things he's focusing on are being ignored by the others. He started focusing on the "policy lynch" discussion, then he moved to arguing about the G-Man lie detector thing, then suspecting LoRab because of it and throwing a solo vote on her. Then he disappeared for most of D2 and showed up to throw an unexplained vote on another player nobody else was suspecting, Long Con.

- G-Man. I don't like the way he played on D2, spending all the phase catching up and writing walls of texts about past events that weren't really important. Then when he finally catches up, he just "takes an easy way out" and throws a vote to "avoid Rorschrach". Gives me the same feeling of being disconnected DH does. Having read his post about how real life is screwing up with him, I kind of sympathize with it, but I don't like his approach of sticking to a playstyle he admits himself to be inefficient. The whole "I change styles every game and always stick to them" meta G-Man has is cool, but it can provide an easy excuse for a mafioso to be useless for the entire game. At the very least, I liked image-posting G-Man better.

- Cookie: She is the "new player who is kind of lost and doesn't do much through the game". Misses the first vote, parrots others for the second vote, never says much. It's likely she's just a new player being overwhelmed, but if she is mafia, that's a very easy excuse to coast through the game and do nothing. I hate analysing those kinds of players, because they have the natural tendency of looking inactive and uncontributive, and yet everything can be easily explained by their newbie status. Sort of like aether in Economics, who was a huge fail of scumhunting from my part. But I have to suspect her. But I have to suspect Cookie for it.

- MM: No idea what to think of this guy. He is random as fuck. His votes have been shit tho, and so have his responses to other peoples' questions. I remember MM at D1 of Economics acted very pro-town, and I sort of miss that version of MM. I can't really find any reason to call him likely town or likely mafia, but after two days of failing to understand the guy, I can't help but suspect him a little.

Everybody else is ranging from neutral to strong civ read. Not gonna elaborate them all because I think this post is already long enough, and I'd rather not give mafia tips on who to kill.

DDL click the "in topic" below someone's post count in the thread

Alright, here is my list of votes for economics mafia:

D1: 3rd/7 player to vote Golden. 7th/15 to vote in the day.
D2: 1st/1 to vote aether. 5th/14 to vote in the day.
D3: 2nd/3 to vote aether. 5th/10 to vote in the day.
D4: 2nd/9 to vote Roxy. 3rd/12 to vote in the day.
D5: 3rd/6 to vote Bass. 4th/10 to vote in the day.
D6: 1st/6 to vote aether. 1st/8 to vote in the day.

As you can see, I tend to be among the first to vote, and I usually don't leave it till the last few hours.

Some poll results were posted by llama, and some by Russtifinko.

[LoRab]

I also meant to say earlier that there hasn't been a lot of discussion about LC's point earlier about it being somewhat strange that Night Owl chose this power to use so early, before knowing any information. With bringing up ideas like that he's either working for the town or he's the biggest of the bads--I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt for now.

Can you explain your logic here please?

In my experience, you tend to bring up such possibilities when you are an big bad indy or when you are civ. You're not reading indy to me at the moment, so I didn't want to vote for you.

This one's for MP.

Are those players you listed here still your top four suspicions? Well, top three since Golden is now gone...

Can you elaborate upon those suspicions? I'm not entirely clear on your thoughts.

The Bass and Lorab suspicions are based on the fact that both of them tried to put suspicion on G-Man for his "lie detector statements". I think that it is an easy way to throttle suspicion on G-Man in a way that sounds really civ-oriented, but analysis of the things he said makes it pretty clear that, IF he were speaking specifically for lie detection purposes, then his statements are legit. And if he was not speaking directly to the lie detector (which I believe), then it's even less relevant to attack him for it.

So, Bass and Lorab look bad to me for it. "Opportunistic" is the adjective I see bandied about a lot that probably describes it best. It seemed like a low-hanging fruit, but that fruit was dried up and devoid of nutrients. But they attacked him for it anyway.

Isn't this whole game (mafia, not this game in particular) opportunistic? And not necessarily in a bad way...but we notice things, we point them out, we discuss them. Sometimes they seem small, sometimes they don't. Sometimes the small things end up leading to baddies.

And, honestly, I tried just making a small point of something I noticed that made me suspicious of a player. I was questioned about it and kept answering, which may have made it seem like I was making a bigger deal than I was. IIRC (and looking back), it was Sloonei who did a lot of that questioning, seemlingly trying to steer me towards other suspicion (while not directly defending G-Man). Which, admittedly, does not lessen my suspicion of GMan.

But, eye me all you want. I have nothing to hide. I am all civ all the time this time around. If I'm not too tired later I'll twirl for you.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

But I have to suspect her. But I have to suspect Cookie for it.

lol just noticed I typed that twice. It wasn't intentional.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Wow that sucks. RIP Golden.
MP in Regards to my inteeactions with Sloonei it was really just a gut read and I was for sure what felt off about him. Looking back I would say it was him asking everyone how they felt about him.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Imo the whole Elo/Sloonei thing is kind of exaggerated. It's not hard for someone to have a gut feeling that someone is bad yet not finding a way to point that out objectively. It seems Bass voted for the same reason, and even I didn't have much more than a feeling to base my vote on. I think she is still more likely civ because of how crucial her vote was.

[Long Con]

So, Bass and Lorab look bad to me for it. "Opportunistic" is the adjective I see bandied about a lot that probably describes it best. It seemed like a low-hanging fruit, but that fruit was dried up and devoid of nutrients. But they attacked him for it anyway.

Isn't this whole game (mafia, not this game in particular) opportunistic? And not necessarily in a bad way...but we notice things, we point them out, we discuss them. Sometimes they seem small, sometimes they don't. Sometimes the small things end up leading to baddies.

Yes, of course, and isn't all of life really opportunistic? Each of us, looking for ways to get ahead, blah blahblah. I was using the word in a specific context, not as a generalization. What I meant by "opportunistic" is that it seems like the kind of thing that a baddie would take advantage of in order to make another player seem more suspicious.

Quite the response though. I hope Rorschach checks you tomorrow night. I mean, we're both Dead Players Walking now as long as Rorschach is around, but I'd like to think that he might use his power for the Civs as much as possible.

And, honestly, I tried just making a small point of something I noticed that made me suspicious of a player. I was questioned about it and kept answering, which may have made it seem like I was making a bigger deal than I was. IIRC (and looking back), it was Sloonei who did a lot of that questioning, seemlingly trying to steer me towards other suspicion (while not directly defending G-Man). Which, admittedly, does not lessen my suspicion of GMan.

Adverb count in that paragraph: four.

My assumption for baddie behaviour is often the opposite. Sloonei tried to steer you away from G-Man? I see that as more confirmation that G-Man is not a baddie - Sloonei wanted to buddy up or get cred or just plain seem like he's good for the civvie cause. If G-Man is bad, then that behaviour would connect them in a way that looks bad for Sloonei.

Either of us could be right, and WIFOM could always be on a baddie's mind... but I think my version is more likely behaviour. More likely to end up with Sloonei looking better, which is usually a more important goal for a baddie than saving their teammates.

***

MP, I haven't forgotten about you. I still have your post to me open in another tab, I'll get to it by the time Day 3 rolls around.

[nijuukyugou]

Quick thoughts/responses, and then I need to get ready to drive. Again.

RIP Golden Knew there was something fishy.

Catching up via phone now, but will post more substantially later. BoB has reignited my wariness of easy bandwagons, and I'm not liking how this poll is looking so far.

How did the poll look when you said this?

There were four votes on Golden with no votes on anyone else and almost no mention, let alone discussion, of other candidates, with a few hours to go.

I don't think Eloh is bad. Someone made a good point - why would she tie up the Day 1 lynch against Sloonei by voting for Sloonei instead of me if she were on his team? That would be stupid, or at the very least really, really risky. And in regards to this point:

EBWOP: it should be noted that MANY of Elo's posts on Day 1 were interactions with Sloonei. Would a teammate be more likely to engage heavily with Sloonei or avoid interacting with him?

Not the baddie Eloh I know. I've been on her team twice and we barely interacted at all in the thread (unconscious on my part; can't say the same for her since I'm not in her brain :P )

Unfortunately, that's all I have time to say for now (I've already spent far too much of what little time I have today on this site...damn you people!). Hopefully I'll be around tomorrow to discuss more.

[Elohcin]

So today is Simon's birthday. He is EIGHT YEARS OLD!!! (I am so old.) I will post pictures in the birthday thread later, but he is having an awesomely epic Star Wars birhtday party And...we are excited b/c our good 'ol friend blooper is supposed to be coming. Now that she has moved we don't see her often enough. So....I am only here for a minute b/c I have just finished decorating and now I need to go workout and get ready.

I will say this regarding those of you who think I could be Sloonei's teammate. I am not Sloonei's teammate. That should be lie detectable.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

If you want to be lie detected, why not "I'm neither Inmate nor Moloch"? Because the way your setence is phrased, you could be Moloch and be lie detected as true.

[G-Man]

So far I am the only member of the household who has not thrown up today but I did burn my arm good reaching into the stove for the hot dish I made for a family reunion picnic today. Trying to cool down and hydrate my daughter while my wife crashes on the couch.

I will try to get my vote analyses up before the end of the night phase. No promises though.

[Marmot]

I'm going to go ahead and vote my good friend MM. Out I'm really not comfortable vote any of them, In Econ he was quick to throw his teammates under the bus so I don't think he would have defended Slooni if they were on a team. Nothing Russ or LC have said made me think they are bad.

What are you talking about? You NK'd me Night 1 in Econ and I was a civilian.

I'm gonna go ahead and vote before I forget, and out of the four, my strongest suspicion is MM, and it's weak as hell even so.

I hate having only four choices. I look forward to discussion of more people.

Now you know how I felt on Day 1.

I self-voted. I don't feel comfortable voting anyone else right now, and I have to place my vote now.

Metalmarsh, i'd like to know your rationale for this. I saw in rym #86 that you like your WIFOM, but I can't really make any sense of a person self-voting from my perspective. were you really that afraid of missing the vote?

there's not a lot that stands out from day 2, which I guess is what happens when discussion is centralised around four people. hopefully the day's content will become more illuminating in the context of future interactions and flips.

I had no reason to vote any of the other three players.

I had a feeling the lynch would come down to Golden and I, and to be honest, I didn't think Golden deserved to be lynched. I was also gone camping, so I knew for a fact I wasn't going to be around at or near the deadline anyway.

I self-voted. I don't feel comfortable voting anyone else right now, and I have to place my vote now.

Metalmarsh, i'd like to know your rationale for this. I saw in rym #86 that you like your WIFOM, but I can't really make any sense of a person self-voting from my perspective. were you really that afraid of missing the vote?

I can think of one very good reason.

What is this reason?

- MM: No idea what to think of this guy. He is random as fuck. His votes have been shit tho, and so have his responses to other peoples' questions. I remember MM at D1 of Economics acted very pro-town, and I sort of miss that version of MM. I can't really find any reason to call him likely town or likely mafia, but after two days of failing to understand the guy, I can't help but suspect him a little.

I asked a similar thing in Biblical Mafia, but how does not understanding a player correlate with them being suspicious?

Quick thoughts/responses, and then I need to get ready to drive. Again.

RIP Golden Knew there was something fishy.

Catching up via phone now, but will post more substantially later. BoB has reignited my wariness of easy bandwagons, and I'm not liking how this poll is looking so far.

How did the poll look when you said this?

There were four votes on Golden with no votes on anyone else and almost no mention, let alone discussion, of other candidates, with a few hours to go.

I self voted before anyone else received a vote though.

[Bass_the_Clever]

I'm going to go ahead and vote my good friend MM. Out I'm really not comfortable vote any of them, In Econ he was quick to throw his teammates under the bus so I don't think he would have defended Slooni if they were on a team. Nothing Russ or LC have said made me think they are bad.

What are you talking about? You NK'd me Night 1 in Econ and I was a civilian.

I'm gonna go ahead and vote before I forget, and out of the four, my strongest suspicion is MM, and it's weak as hell even so.

I hate having only four choices. I look forward to discussion of more people.

Now you know how I felt on Day 1.

I self-voted. I don't feel comfortable voting anyone else right now, and I have to place my vote now.

Metalmarsh, i'd like to know your rationale for this. I saw in rym #86 that you like your WIFOM, but I can't really make any sense of a person self-voting from my perspective. were you really that afraid of missing the vote?

there's not a lot that stands out from day 2, which I guess is what happens when discussion is centralised around four people. hopefully the day's content will become more illuminating in the context of future interactions and flips.

I had no reason to vote any of the other three players.

I had a feeling the lynch would come down to Golden and I, and to be honest, I didn't think Golden deserved to be lynched. I was also gone camping, so I knew for a fact I wasn't going to be around at or near the deadline anyway.

I self-voted. I don't feel comfortable voting anyone else right now, and I have to place my vote now.

Metalmarsh, i'd like to know your rationale for this. I saw in rym #86 that you like your WIFOM, but I can't really make any sense of a person self-voting from my perspective. were you really that afraid of missing the vote?

I can think of one very good reason.

What is this reason?

- MM: No idea what to think of this guy. He is random as fuck. His votes have been shit tho, and so have his responses to other peoples' questions. I remember MM at D1 of Economics acted very pro-town, and I sort of miss that version of MM. I can't really find any reason to call him likely town or likely mafia, but after two days of failing to understand the guy, I can't help but suspect him a little.

I asked a similar thing in Biblical Mafia, but how does not understanding a player correlate with them being suspicious?

Quick thoughts/responses, and then I need to get ready to drive. Again.

RIP Golden Knew there was something fishy.

Catching up via phone now, but will post more substantially later. BoB has reignited my wariness of easy bandwagons, and I'm not liking how this poll is looking so far.

How did the poll look when you said this?

There were four votes on Golden with no votes on anyone else and almost no mention, let alone discussion, of other candidates, with a few hours to go.

I self voted before anyone else received a vote though.

I was talking about Golden in Econ. My bad.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I asked a similar thing in Biblical Mafia, but how does not understanding a player correlate with them being suspicious?

More like I have to figure out what to do with you sooner or later. It's the same thing with Vompatti (though Vomps is way worse), you keep looking at that player and not knowing wtf to do with them. And if all the obvious baddie suspects are eliminated, the unreadable neutral guy may become the next in line.

[Epignosis]

You have 24 hours to lynch someone.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

RIP ninjuu.

Mafia seems to be going for the tried and true method of killing the towniest townie in town.

[Tangrowth]

The mafia truly are cowards.

RIP blooper.

[Tangrowth]

Still trying to meet my evening deadline tomorrow, so my Day 3 activity may be spotty at best. BBL

[DharmaHelper]

OK So this weekend was bullshit. I had very little time to mafia. Here is the deal I am going to make to everyone:

Tomorrow, I will bust my ass and have something to say on every player. It won't be rainbow colored because I'm not a fucking sociopath but I promise to be engaged and to put forward a good deal of discussion

[Elohcin]

poor blooper.

[nijuukyugou]

RIP me

[G-Man]

Digest on this. I'll post some comments in the morning. Please correct me and provide a link to your reasons for voting if you feel I have mischaracterized your reasons. I was going to include links but it's been a long, long day.

DAY 1 RESULTS:

1. TIMMER (Timmer)<---Player = ???? (REASON: RL keeping him out of game yet)
2. NIJU (Sloonei)<---Player = INMATE (REASON: wishy-washy on G-Man and hollow support of Llama)
3. NIJU (MM89)<---Player = ???? (REASON: No explanation given between vote #2 and #4- further reading needed)
4. G-MAN (LoRab)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Finds G-Man suspicious, no elaboration given- phrasing perhaps?)
5. SLOONEI (Niju)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Feels something is off with Sloonei)
6. ELOHCIN (Scotty)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Elo feels too light-hearted this game)
7. SCOTTY (Bass)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Buddied up to MP and not giving his own suspicions)
8. SLOONEI (Llama)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Sloonei being too defensive)
9. SLOONEI (Dragon)<---Player = ???? (REASON: [Given after he voted] Something off with Sloonei)
10. LORAB (DH)<---Player = ???? (REASON: LoRab making mountains out of molehills and calls BS on her assertion nothing is going on D1)
11. SCOTTY (MP07)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Had an a-ha moment on Scotty & his Elo vote was "weak")
12. NIJU (Golden)<---Player = CIVILIAN (REASON: Voted in a rush without catching up from earlier)
13. SLOONEI (Elohcin)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Some of his responses felt scummy)
14. G-MAN (Russtifinko)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Always suspects Elo so he gave her a break & voted his #2)
15. ELOHCIN (Ricochet)<---Player = ???? (REASON: "Impossible to fully address")
16. SLOONEI (espers)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Not buying Sloonei's defense- something's off)

NOT VOTING: Cookie, G-Man, Long Con


ALTERNATE FORMAT:

5. SLOONEI (Niju)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Feels something is off with Sloonei)
8. SLOONEI (Llama)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Sloonei being too defensive)
9. SLOONEI (Dragon)<---Player = ???? (REASON: [Given after he voted] Something off with Sloonei)
13. SLOONEI (Elohcin)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Some of his responses felt scummy)
16. SLOONEI (espers)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Not buying Sloonei's defense- something's off)


2. NIJU (Sloonei)<---Player = INMATE (REASON: wishy-washy on G-Man and hollow support of Llama)
3. NIJU (MM89)<---Player = ???? (REASON: No explanation given between vote #2 and #4- further reading needed)
12. NIJU (Golden)<---Player = CIVILIAN (REASON: Voted in a rush without catching up from earlier)


4. G-MAN (LoRab)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Finds G-Man suspicious, no elaboration given- phrasing perhaps?)
14. G-MAN (Russtifinko)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Always suspects Elo so he gave her a break & voted his #2)


6. ELOHCIN (Scotty)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Elo feels too light-hearted this game)
15. ELOHCIN (Ricochet)<---Player = ???? (REASON: "Impossible to fully address")


7. SCOTTY (Bass)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Buddied up to MP and not giving his own suspicions)
11. SCOTTY (MP07)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Had an a-ha moment on Scotty & his Elo vote was "weak")


1. TIMMER (Timmer)<---Player = ???? (REASON: RL keeping him out of game yet)


10. LORAB (DH)<---Player = ???? (REASON: LoRab making mountains out of molehills and calls BS on her assertion nothing is going on D1)


NOT VOTING:
Cookie<---Player = ????
G-Man<---Player = ????
Long Con<---Player = ????

DAY 2 RESULTS:

1. METALMARSH89 (MM89)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Not comfy voting any of the other 3)
2. GOLDEN (Timmer)<---Player = ???? (REASON: His posts re: Sloonei look bad; not feeling bad about other 3)
3. GOLDEN (Long Con)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Golden is the only of his suspects on the poll today)
4. GOLDEN (Cookie)<---Player = ???? (REASON: came back well after vote to explain she thought Golden made a baddie slip)
5. GOLDEN (Dragon)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Golden looks worst of the 4; not sus of the other 3)
6. RUSSTIFINKO (G-Man)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Easy way out; avoiding Rorschach's hit list)
7. LONG CON (DH)<---Player = ???? (REASON: No initial explanation- further review needed)
8. METALMARSH89 (Bass)<---Player = ???? (REASON: least uncomfortable option; not really sus of others)
9. METALMARSH89 (Niju)<---Player = ???? (REASON: most sus of the 4 but even then not a strong sus)
10. METALMARSH89 (Elohcin)<---Player = ???? (REASON: MM's self-vote bugs her)
11. GOLDEN (LoRab)<---Player = ???? (REASON: not a fan of Golden's "I'm an important civ" comment)
12. METALMARSH89 (Golden)<---Player = CIVILIAN (REASON: Self-preservation)

NOT VOTING: espers, MP07, Ricochet, Russtifinko



ALTERNATE FORMAT:

2. GOLDEN (Timmer)<---Player = ???? (REASON: His posts re: Sloonei look bad; not feeling bad about other 3)
3. GOLDEN (Long Con)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Golden is the only of his suspects on the poll today)
4. GOLDEN (Cookie)<---Player = ???? (REASON: came back well after vote to explain she thought Golden made a baddie slip)
5. GOLDEN (Dragon)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Golden looks worst of the 4; not sus of the other 3)
11. GOLDEN (LoRab)<---Player = ???? (REASON: not a fan of Golden's "I'm an important civ" comment)


1. METALMARSH89 (MM89)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Not comfy voting any of the other 3)
8. METALMARSH89 (Bass)<---Player = ???? (REASON: least uncomfortable option; not really sus of others)
9. METALMARSH89 (Niju)<---Player = ???? (REASON: most sus of the 4 but even then not a strong sus)
10. METALMARSH89 (Elohcin)<---Player = ???? (REASON: MM's self-vote bugs her)
12. METALMARSH89 (Golden)<---Player = CIVILIAN (REASON: Self-preservation)


6. RUSSTIFINKO (G-Man)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Easy way out; avoiding Rorschach's hit list)


7. LONG CON (DH)<---Player = ???? (REASON: No initial explanation- further review needed)


NOT VOTING:
espers<---Player = ????
MP07<---Player = ????
Ricochet<---Player = ????
Russtifinko<---Player = ????

[Dragon D. Luffy]

G-Man, thanks for the effort, but just one correction: we can't call blooper a civ for sure because she might be Moloch.

[G-Man]

G-Man, thanks for the effort, but just one correction: we can't call blooper a civ for sure because she might be Moloch.

I'm not calling her a Civilian.

-The # is the order of that vote
-ALL CAPS NAME is the player receiving the vote
-(Name in parentheses) is the player casting the vote
-The <---Player = status refers to the voter (name in parentheses)

You only got a taste of this briefly in Guess Who, so I can understand why you might get it mixed up. Does it make sense now?

[Cookie]

G-Man,
I really appreciate you doing that analysis. It puts everything into such clear perspective. I've never played in a game where people look so closely at votes. The reason you put for night 2 for me was "4. GOLDEN (Cookie)<---Player = ???? (REASON: came back well after vote to explain she thought Golden made a baddie slip)."

This was my actual reason:

I originally did not find Golden to be suspicious and I still do not find him the most suspicious out of all players (not listed in the poll), however, his vote to tie the vote for Sloonei and (I don't remember who... Niju?) makes me think that his attempt was to prevent Sloonei from getting voted out. It's very weak, I know. Someone later said that Golden is a more experienced player and would not do something so inept. So I just don't know who else to vote as there is not enough information against anyone else, in my opinion.

As I said, I did not find Golden suspicious. He was only the most suspicious out of the 4 of them.

[Cookie]

Am I blind or do I not see Niju's role?

[G-Man]

Please note that these analyses are based off looking for the Inmates only. In my short time back in action, I don't think I've played enough games with serial killers (I'm assuming that's what we're classifying Moloch as) to get back in the groove of sniffing them out. This setup is very difficult because the typical mafia team (the Inmates) only has three members. Considering we caught one of those three members on Day 1, it is going to be very difficult to track the other two. We have to look for small patterns and vote sequences that might suggest a collaborative effort between two players.

Day 1 vote data is in the spoiler tag. Please look refer to it as you read over my assessments.

Spoiler: show

DAY 1 RESULTS:

1. TIMMER (Timmer)<---Player = ???? (REASON: RL keeping him out of game yet)
2. NIJU (Sloonei)<---Player = INMATE (REASON: wishy-washy on G-Man and hollow support of Llama)
3. NIJU (MM89)<---Player = ???? (REASON: No explanation given between vote #2 and #4- further reading needed)
4. G-MAN (LoRab)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Finds G-Man suspicious, no elaboration given- phrasing perhaps?)
5. SLOONEI (Niju)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Feels something is off with Sloonei)
6. ELOHCIN (Scotty)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Elo feels too light-hearted this game)
7. SCOTTY (Bass)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Buddied up to MP and not giving his own suspicions)
8. SLOONEI (Llama)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Sloonei being too defensive)
9. SLOONEI (Dragon)<---Player = ???? (REASON: [Given after he voted] Something off with Sloonei)
10. LORAB (DH)<---Player = ???? (REASON: LoRab making mountains out of molehills and calls BS on her assertion nothing is going on D1)
11. SCOTTY (MP07)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Had an a-ha moment on Scotty & his Elo vote was "weak")
12. NIJU (Golden)<---Player = CIVILIAN (REASON: Voted in a rush without catching up from earlier)
13. SLOONEI (Elohcin)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Some of his responses felt scummy)
14. G-MAN (Russtifinko)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Always suspects Elo so he gave her a break & voted his #2)
15. ELOHCIN (Ricochet)<---Player = ???? (REASON: "Impossible to fully address")
16. SLOONEI (espers)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Not buying Sloonei's defense- something's off)

NOT VOTING: Cookie, G-Man, Long Con


ALTERNATE FORMAT:

5. SLOONEI (Niju)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Feels something is off with Sloonei)
8. SLOONEI (Llama)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Sloonei being too defensive)
9. SLOONEI (Dragon)<---Player = ???? (REASON: [Given after he voted] Something off with Sloonei)
13. SLOONEI (Elohcin)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Some of his responses felt scummy)
16. SLOONEI (espers)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Not buying Sloonei's defense- something's off)


2. NIJU (Sloonei)<---Player = INMATE (REASON: wishy-washy on G-Man and hollow support of Llama)
3. NIJU (MM89)<---Player = ???? (REASON: No explanation given between vote #2 and #4- further reading needed)
12. NIJU (Golden)<---Player = CIVILIAN (REASON: Voted in a rush without catching up from earlier)


4. G-MAN (LoRab)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Finds G-Man suspicious, no elaboration given- phrasing perhaps?)
14. G-MAN (Russtifinko)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Always suspects Elo so he gave her a break & voted his #2)


6. ELOHCIN (Scotty)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Elo feels too light-hearted this game)
15. ELOHCIN (Ricochet)<---Player = ???? (REASON: "Impossible to fully address")


7. SCOTTY (Bass)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Buddied up to MP and not giving his own suspicions)
11. SCOTTY (MP07)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Had an a-ha moment on Scotty & his Elo vote was "weak")


1. TIMMER (Timmer)<---Player = ???? (REASON: RL keeping him out of game yet)


10. LORAB (DH)<---Player = ???? (REASON: LoRab making mountains out of molehills and calls BS on her assertion nothing is going on D1)


NOT VOTING:
Cookie<---Player = ????
G-Man<---Player = ????
Long Con<---Player = ????

What I infer from the Day 1 votes:

-I'm still not sure what to make of Timmer's self-vote. I like the warning about possibly pulling a Deborah but would he try that shtick again so soon?

-I'm inclined to believe that none of the first four voters for Sloonei are Inmates. Guess Who challenged this notion, but I believe once again that a team as small as the Inmates would not be the first to either raise suspicion of a teammate or vote in a way that threatens a teammate.

-There is potential for espers to be Sloonei's teammate and he wanted to or was encouraged to throw that final vote on Sloonei for the cred. I like what espers said about feeling something was off about Sloonei. They have played elsewhere before, right? Knowing meta is a powerful item on the tool belt, so I feel compelled to respect that. This leaves me feeling only neutral on espers, unlike the other Sloonei voters.

-The Niju voters are interesting. Both Sloonei and Golden voted for her, with MM89 sandwiched in between. Golden's Civilian status destroys any notion of a save attempt on Sloonei by way of voting Niju. The question is whether or not MM89 is Sloonei's teammate. I could see teammates voting early to build momentum on a non-teammate. It's a little dangerous with such a small team but they could do the smart thing by reaching a Niju vote from different directions. Sloonei said Niju was wishy-washy on the case against me and only showed hollow support for Llama. Going back, MM89 said he found Niju's apology for a long post a bit squirrely but he voted for her without a whole lot of suspicion on anyone. That's certainly two different approached- Sloonei by way of semi-concrete reasons and MM89 by more or less shrugging his shoulders and picking someone who at least pinged him slightly.

-LoRab's vote on me came before Sloonei picked up any votes. This is important because we should look for desperate votes after the Sloonei train picks up steam. LoRab focused on the LD issue in regards to my post. I already looked suspicious before any of that because I was more aggressive, assertive, and less playful than usual. Rather than trying to use the "he's different and that's sus" angle that had been mentioned, she comes at it from an angle with a unique twist by suggesting I was trying to evade the LD power. To let my tin-foil hatted hamster out of his cage for a moment, consider this: Both Sloonei vote and LoRab's vote came before Sloonei had any votes. Sure there was discussion but could it be that the two of them are teammates and they tried to divide and conquer by voting for two potential victims that could attract more votes. Unfortunately for them, any momentum for Niju and myself died down as the momentum on Sloonei ramped up.

-Russ's vote for me was crap but not crap enough for me to shift him off of a neutral read.

-The votes for players who had none by the time Niju voted for Sloonei is of particular interest to me. Once the pressure was on Sloonei, it would make sense for there to be some desperation. Let's look at each person getting votes:

-Scotty's vote on Elo doesn't bug me that much. I feel like I understood what he was saying, much to MP07's incredulity. However, Scotty's reasons for voting for Elo takes her back down a notch to neutral for me. In Econ, she was the serial killer but she came out too hard and got caught (even though we lynched her thinking she was mafia). Could it be that she is taking the opposite approach now that she has landed herself the role of Moloch? Again, I can't see her as an Inmate because of her tie-breaking, lynch-sealing vote on Sloonei.

-Ricochet's vote on Elo came with the statement that his vote was "Impossible to fully address" at the time. We need him back in here to explain that. He's neutral but his explanation will likely change that.

-Bass's vote for Scotty was the first after Sloonei picked up a vote. He accused Scotty of being a suck-up to MP07 and not putting his own suspicions out there. Sounds like a solid-ish justification on the surface but I have to be skeptical because I feel like I trust Scotty's thoughts. I'll give Bass a slight baddie read as being a possible attempt to set up a save attempt on Sloonei by offering up another possibility.

-The next two votes coming in were for Sloonei and I see nothing wrong yet with those two voters.

-Next up is a solo vote for LoRab by DH. I can't fault him for his reasons. I agree that LoRab tried to make more out of my post than was there. Still, a mid-stack vote for someone with no votes when there is already a 3-2 race going on can look conspicuously safe. For that reason, DH remains neutral.

-After this we have MP07 joining in on Bass's vote for Scotty. MP07 went from being cordial with Scotty, to asking a question or two, to doubting the sincerity of his contributions and the soundness of his vote for Elo. He openly agrees with Bass and then adds a few more points for other people to consider. This after his suspicion of Sloonei eroded bit by bit over the course of the day. In short, MP07 seems to have built a case on why Scotty is suspicious while also posting several points on why Sloonei probably shouldn't be suspicious. All this occurs as MP07 votes for Scotty, making it a 3-2-2 race between Sloonei, Niju, and Scotty. With Niju being NK'd by the Inmates, we know that MP07 adding Scotty to the mix wasn't an attempt to save Niju. Could it have been an attempt to save Sloonei?

-No one bit on Golden's points on Scotty. The next vote was Golden's vote for Niju out of haste and ignorance to what else had developed in the thread. That tied things up and Elo made a chipper post about tying things up. Russ came in to throw a lazy vote on me (though it could have been an attempt to avoid being part of the top two lynch trains). Ricochet went all cryptic on us and then espers put one more vote on top of Sloonei's pile.


I'll post some Day 2 thoughts at lunch. There won't be as many, as Day 2 was a lost day of sorts due to the limited poll options.

[espers]

ok, starting the Sloonei interactives now. for each person, i'm going to commit to a stance one way or the other - no neutrals. obviously these aren't be-all end-all cases, but if you take issue with anything I say feel free to comment.

Bass_the_Clever

Spoiler: show

I agree with lorab.

What parts do you agree with and why? Does this mean you are suspicious of G-man? Who else do you suspect?

I agree that he seemed to be trying to get around the LD with the way he worded it.
I think he has played enough to know that a lot of games people just come out say "I'm civ" and it's not consider info dumping or role claiming. I think there are two watchmen who we know can turn on the civves or need a civvie dead to win if I'm reading the roles right.

If anything, I feel like G-man's phrasing was an attempt to attract the lie detector (and this was my initial thought when I saw the post in question). I don't see how drawing obvious attention to oneself with a curiously-worded statement can be seen as dodging a potential lie detector. Does his phrasing, if we're gonna take it as honest, strike you as being one of ~2 nefarious Watchmen?
Also, who else are you looking at besides G-man?

Bass takes part in the lie detector discussion. Note that these two are Bass's only posts on the subject, he didn't respond to Sloonei's pushing it further. Sloonei's jumping on a rather trifling point seemed like nothing more or less than a way to fluff on G-man, a common talking point, and I think he'd probably be less willing to do that if he and Bass were partners.

Golden: Adverbs, smilies.

Yeah, sorry, was posting as catching up. I see you had already let it be known by that point

What do you think of the adverb/smiley line of reasoning, both generally and as it pertains to me this game? What is your read on me right now?

Why do you care what people think about you right now? You asked Llama this same question.

Because I am a player in the game and I'd like to know what people think about every player in the game. I'm particularly interested in myself because I know my alignment and am a huge narcissist. I'll ask anyone to share their read of me if they acknowledge my existence.
What do you think of me, Bass?

Bass picks up on Sloonei asking others for reads on him - something I don't see as suspicious myself but whatever works. Sloonei proceeds to do the exact thing Bass had asked about, to Bass. not sure what to make of that at this point, anyone have any thoughts?

I don't know what it is but you seem kinda off this game.

Me? I encourage you to please try to figure out what it is.

What is your gun to the head read on me?

Town. I like that you are asking me this question. It's bold and suggests you're being aggressive. Your posts feel more like BoB Bass than Economics Bass so far, and I hope you can continue to build on this.
I did feel like this post was a bit odd, though, since you've played with me a fee times now, and I tought you'd know that asking everyone a million questions was my bag, so you asking why I'm asking questions seemed a bit insincere.

I agree that asking questions is meta for you but you only asked Golden and Llama what they thought about you. I thought it was strange that you only asked those two people.

I read this more as Sloonei trying to appease Bass than a fabricated interaction. I doubt that Bass would directly engage Sloonei by asking him for a gun to head read so early if they were teammates, but I don't know Bass so comments from anyone with experience playing with him as mafia would be appreciated.

i'd like to take note here (and i'll probably refer back to it in future) that the day 1 vote was up in the air right until well after Sloonei left for the day; he was probably not anticipating being lynched, and thus he probably wasn't making efforts to create strong false connections so early. with that in mind, I think the two-way asking for reads of each other is a point in Bass's favour.

I'm going to go ahead and vote Scotty. His buddying up to MP pinged me at first. MP pointed out that Scotty has been part of the discussion with out throwing out any of his own suspects. He also made a big deal about me voting late in B.O.B and he has yet to vote so I found that odd.

bass ends up voting for Scotty despite having called Sloonei's behaviour "off". This is a bad look, for reasons I don't feel like spelling out but should be obvious (this is already starting to feel too much like work ). We don't know Scotty's alignment so it's not really worthwhile to speculate on whether Bass's vote had value in itself.

summary: despite a shaky EOD1 vote, I think most things point in favour of town Bass, particularly the way that both asked for reads of each other. slight civ read.

linki: hi G-Man. I haven't actually played games with Sloonei before (or if I have, it was years ago when I wasn't taking the game seriously) but I have hosted and/or observed a few of late so i'd say I have some insight into his meta. if anyone has questions or comments directed at me that amount to more than "the day 1 vote could be a bus" that'd be swell, i'd like to have things to respond to.

[G-Man]

-No one bit on Golden's points on Scotty. The next vote was Golden's vote for Niju out of haste and ignorance to what else had developed in the thread. That tied things up and Elo made a chipper post about tying things up. Russ came in to throw a lazy vote on me (though it could have been an attempt to avoid being part of the top two lynch trains). Ricochet went all cryptic on us and then espers put one more vote on top of Sloonei's pile.

That should say "No one bit on MP07's points on Scotty."

ok, starting the Sloonei interactives now. for each person, i'm going to commit to a stance one way or the other - no neutrals. obviously these aren't be-all end-all cases, but if you take issue with anything I say feel free to comment.

Bass_the_Clever

Spoiler: show

I agree with lorab.

What parts do you agree with and why? Does this mean you are suspicious of G-man? Who else do you suspect?

I agree that he seemed to be trying to get around the LD with the way he worded it.
I think he has played enough to know that a lot of games people just come out say "I'm civ" and it's not consider info dumping or role claiming. I think there are two watchmen who we know can turn on the civves or need a civvie dead to win if I'm reading the roles right.

If anything, I feel like G-man's phrasing was an attempt to attract the lie detector (and this was my initial thought when I saw the post in question). I don't see how drawing obvious attention to oneself with a curiously-worded statement can be seen as dodging a potential lie detector. Does his phrasing, if we're gonna take it as honest, strike you as being one of ~2 nefarious Watchmen?
Also, who else are you looking at besides G-man?

Bass takes part in the lie detector discussion. Note that these two are Bass's only posts on the subject, he didn't respond to Sloonei's pushing it further. Sloonei's jumping on a rather trifling point seemed like nothing more or less than a way to fluff on G-man, a common talking point, and I think he'd probably be less willing to do that if he and Bass were partners.

Golden: Adverbs, smilies.

Yeah, sorry, was posting as catching up. I see you had already let it be known by that point

What do you think of the adverb/smiley line of reasoning, both generally and as it pertains to me this game? What is your read on me right now?

Why do you care what people think about you right now? You asked Llama this same question.

Because I am a player in the game and I'd like to know what people think about every player in the game. I'm particularly interested in myself because I know my alignment and am a huge narcissist. I'll ask anyone to share their read of me if they acknowledge my existence.
What do you think of me, Bass?

Bass picks up on Sloonei asking others for reads on him - something I don't see as suspicious myself but whatever works. Sloonei proceeds to do the exact thing Bass had asked about, to Bass. not sure what to make of that at this point, anyone have any thoughts?

I don't know what it is but you seem kinda off this game.

Me? I encourage you to please try to figure out what it is.

What is your gun to the head read on me?

Town. I like that you are asking me this question. It's bold and suggests you're being aggressive. Your posts feel more like BoB Bass than Economics Bass so far, and I hope you can continue to build on this.
I did feel like this post was a bit odd, though, since you've played with me a fee times now, and I tought you'd know that asking everyone a million questions was my bag, so you asking why I'm asking questions seemed a bit insincere.

I agree that asking questions is meta for you but you only asked Golden and Llama what they thought about you. I thought it was strange that you only asked those two people.

I read this more as Sloonei trying to appease Bass than a fabricated interaction. I doubt that Bass would directly engage Sloonei by asking him for a gun to head read so early if they were teammates, but I don't know Bass so comments from anyone with experience playing with him as mafia would be appreciated.

i'd like to take note here (and i'll probably refer back to it in future) that the day 1 vote was up in the air right until well after Sloonei left for the day; he was probably not anticipating being lynched, and thus he probably wasn't making efforts to create strong false connections so early. with that in mind, I think the two-way asking for reads of each other is a point in Bass's favour.

I'm going to go ahead and vote Scotty. His buddying up to MP pinged me at first. MP pointed out that Scotty has been part of the discussion with out throwing out any of his own suspects. He also made a big deal about me voting late in B.O.B and he has yet to vote so I found that odd.

bass ends up voting for Scotty despite having called Sloonei's behaviour "off". This is a bad look, for reasons I don't feel like spelling out but should be obvious (this is already starting to feel too much like work ). We don't know Scotty's alignment so it's not really worthwhile to speculate on whether Bass's vote had value in itself.

summary: despite a shaky EOD1 vote, I think most things point in favour of town Bass, particularly the way that both asked for reads of each other. slight civ read.

linki: hi G-Man. I haven't actually played games with Sloonei before (or if I have, it was years ago when I wasn't taking the game seriously) but I have hosted and/or observed a few of late so i'd say I have some insight into his meta. if anyone has questions or comments directed at me that amount to more than "the day 1 vote could be a bus" that'd be swell, i'd like to have things to respond to.

Okay, thanks espers. I wasn't sure if you had played with Sloonei before or not. Knowing that you haven't keeps you firmly as a neutral read after Day 1 then.

[G-Man]

*sigh* only read the first half of your comment to me before I started writing a response. Silly me. If you've hosted Sloonei then I would tend to feel slightly better about your vote for Sloonei. I'll bump you to a slight civvie read.

[Tangrowth]

Don't have long, but popping in for a few minutes.

G-Man, thanks for the vote analysis, I'll provide some of my own thoughts later.

Cookie, NKed players do NOT have their roles revealed here. Lynched players do.

espers, you have to "quote" your post(s) within the spoilers, otherwise it's going to show up weird. FYI.

Regarding my Day 1 vote, G-Man, or anything else really, let me know if you have any questions. I understand why you would consider it as a possible Sloonei save attempt. If I didn't know my own intentions, and I were in your shoes, I would as well. But I would suggest you examine my interactions with Sloonei, because I feel I was transparent with my thoughts about him, then decide for yourself whether I would risk both Sloonei and myself by making such a move as a mafia. I did not. But if you think that I did, then so be it, but please ask me any questions you have. I'd rather not die if I don't have to.

Sorry, folks, I'll be back with my head 100% into this thread once I complete this deadline.

[Tangrowth]

Also, I already completed interactions with Bass and Elo, but only DDL commented on the Elo interaction, and Bass responded to his, which I appreciated. But that's it.

We have a gold mine with a flipped mafia on Day 1, so we REALLY need to look at how people interacted with Sloonei.

To add to what DDL said, I agree, I don't think Elo looks like a Sloonei teammate. I don't think Bass looks like one either. They both seem genuine in their interactions with Sloonei. That's my opinion. I want all of your opinions.

espers is on the right track continuing the interactions.

[espers]

Cookie

Spoiler: show

there's very little in the way of real interaction here. there's one thing that pings me, though:

With regards to Cookie, since I'm the only person here who's got any familiarity with her as a player, I feel like I should offer what insight I can.

She comes from a fairly young mafia community and the games there are still a little um primitive, if that's not a mean thing to say, and, like she said, people tend to rely heavily on power roles and night actions and crazy bandwagon hunches and stuff. I've never played any games there, but I'm the one who introduced mafia on the site and have modded/spectated a bunch of games, and in my opinion Cookie is one of the the strongest players in the community (and one of the only ones who I felt comfortable enough with to invite here). I'm hella excited to see how she handles the more intense gameplay here and have full confidence in her abilities, but in fairness to her and everyone else it should be known that a lot of this is probably going to be new to her, but she's certainly not what the kids would call a "noob".

Hello Cookie, welcome. Give me a full list of reads on every player by noon tomorrow.

the last sentence. it feels fabricated, in a way that's less "i'm prodding someone quiet to make me look townish" and more "be more active or people will start to suspect you".

Cookie missed the day 1 vote, which is not great. I don't have a hard time buying that it was because of unfamiliarity with the environment and the deadline situation here, though.

summary: on the basis of my first point, slight mafia read.

Cookie, if you're town: don't be discouraged by an unfamiliar playing field! this game can be frustrating at times but it's best to try to push through it ime. also keep in mind that an inactive player might be an easy target for mafia to try to get a mislynch on, so you might want to watch out for that kind of motivation in people who push on you. that's not to say you should resort to OMGUS though, that won't help.

linki: thanks for the formatting tip, mp.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

G-Man, thanks for the effort, but just one correction: we can't call blooper a civ for sure because she might be Moloch.

I'm not calling her a Civilian.

-The # is the order of that vote
-ALL CAPS NAME is the player receiving the vote
-(Name in parentheses) is the player casting the vote
-The <---Player = status refers to the voter (name in parentheses)

You only got a taste of this briefly in Guess Who, so I can understand why you might get it mixed up. Does it make sense now?

Oh I get it now, I misunderstood the one line where Golden votes Ninjuu. Sorry.

[espers]

DharmaHelper

Spoiler: show

Also, I ain't doing no rainbow list. Fuck that noise.

All your posts had been a breath of fresh air and a reminder of my mafia home, but you ruined that all with this post right here. DharmaHelper you broke my rainbow heart.

Oops.

this is the extent of their interactions. i'd say this isn't really possible to read into.

DH voted for LoRab d1. perhaps notable that this vote came just after thellama and DDL voted to make Sloonei leader in the tally. it's plausible that DH was trying to push an alternate wagon to get Sloonei off the hook - though in that case, why not push on nijuu or G-Man, say?

summary: in the absence of much to go on, i'm uncomfortable making a civ call. hope DH contributes more in future. slight mafia read.
quote]

[Dragon D. Luffy]

then decide for yourself whether I would risk both Sloonei and myself by making such a move as a mafia.

That's debatable. One thing I learned in Guess Who is that literally any vote can be risky, depending on what side the WIFOM swings to. If you are a baddie and voted Sloonei, not only you'd be risking him, but you'd also risk yourself by being subject to a possible accusation of bussing. If you had vote some other random person, you'd have entered the camp of people who risk having their votes being called "cop out" votes. And voting ninjuu would obviously be risky too.

What matters, imo, is how the person's posts connect to the vote they made. That said, I still have to read yours before I draw some conclusion.

[LoRab]

-LoRab's vote on me came before Sloonei picked up any votes. This is important because we should look for desperate votes after the Sloonei train picks up steam. LoRab focused on the LD issue in regards to my post. I already looked suspicious before any of that because I was more aggressive, assertive, and less playful than usual. Rather than trying to use the "he's different and that's sus" angle that had been mentioned, she comes at it from an angle with a unique twist by suggesting I was trying to evade the LD power. To let my tin-foil hatted hamster out of his cage for a moment, consider this: Both Sloonei vote and LoRab's vote came before Sloonei had any votes. Sure there was discussion but could it be that the two of them are teammates and they tried to divide and conquer by voting for two potential victims that could attract more votes. Unfortunately for them, any momentum for Niju and myself died down as the momentum on Sloonei ramped up.

I tend to find my own reasons for finding people suspicious, and not just go why other people find them suspicious. And, indeed, that was the main reason I suspected you (in your list you said I hadn't given a reason) although I believe I elaborated other reasons throughout that lynch cycle.

And, since Sllnei isn't/wasn't my teammate, no, it wasn't unfortunate for me. I'm glad we lynched a baddie. I'm a civie--I'm still not sure about you. And you will likely get my vote again. You've posted nothing to change my thinking about you.

I also won't be around much today--driving to DC for a baseball game, so will be in the car for much of the day--and watching the Nationals play the Mets for another large part of the day. I will keep up as much as I can.

[espers]

it's getting late so i'll hold off on doing more analyses for now. anyone else who wants to take a few would be more than welcome. I have a newfound appreciation of the effort put in by people like JJJ.

will be back before deadline to discuss and decide on a vote.

[Elohcin]

SO I have yet to read anything past my last post which was in reference to niju being killed. Her death saddens me. She is too cool to be killed off so early. Anyway....that said, I just want to say how much I hate these rainbow lists. Find me suspicious if you want but I haven't liked them from the beginning. MP ranks Niju as his top read of civilian and then she dies. It's like saying...."hey baddies, this is the person you should kill next." I know I have picked on you a lot this game MP. I don't mean anything by it, really. Your list the just the one I found first.

- nijuukyugou is my new top read, and I'm willing to take a strong stand. She seems consistently genuine, her hesitance to pile onto Golden today bodes well, and her vote from D1 still stands out as very strong. That said, I hope to see even more baddie hunting from her. And I still am going to continue to examine and question her intentions as much as everyone else, if not even more so, but right now I have to admit that she looks better than all the rest of you.

Okay, so I just wanted to mention that. I have to get back to school now and do a little housework and then I will catch up on everything that's been said so far today. I have a splitting headache from staying up until 2am with Epi and Niju. I am SO old! And I didn't even have one drop to drink. Epi drank beer all evening and is totally fine. I don't get it.

[Epignosis]

I have a splitting headache from staying up until 2am with Epi and Niju. I am SO old! And I didn't even have one drop to drink. Epi drank beer all evening and is totally fine. I don't get it.

[DharmaHelper]

Lets start with me:

I don't find me suspicious at all. To explain my D2 vote for whoever asked, I didn't find Golden suspect and I was not about to go back on my word from earlier. Long Con was the best option for my money out of the other 3.

[DharmaHelper]

Bass Thoughts:
Early out of the gate for Scotty "sucking up to" MP.
Criticising G-Man's phrasing of an LD statement (Ignoring that G-Man stated also that he was not mafia)
Jumps on Sloonei's odd question asking
Ends up voting for Scotty after Sloonei gets two votes (possible save)
During his questioning of Sloonei, pressed her but made sure to point out "its nothing bad."
Reminds everyone his thoughts RE: Sloonei after his lynch
Points out that MP (the other Scotty Voter) is silenced (?)


Conclusions:

I think the biggest piece of evidence to Bass's civvieness is his interaction with Sloonei. with such a small team, I don't think anyone would actively point out suspicious things that their teammates were doing even in the way that Bass did, unless it is distancing.

The biggest points against Bass are:

1) His vote for Scotty after Sloonei started to get votes.
2) His trying to take some credit RE: The sloonei lynch.

I also find it odd that he pointed out that MP might be silenced. Given their connection RE: Scotty vote. Bass's MM vote is somewhat strange considering every time Bass brought up MM before, it was "as a joke." But there were only 3 other suspects at the time, so I can forgive that for a second. As of right now, I think Bass is a civvie based on the following things:

1) He jumped on Sloonei for asking odd questions, placing some attention/suspicion on her. I don't think it would be wise to do this with such a small team if he were mafia.
2) His Scotty vote, while odd in that it looks like it could be a Sloonei save, is consistent with his suspicions from earlier RE: Scotty sucking up to MP.

[DharmaHelper]

Cookie Thoughts:

Consistently reminds everyone how "new" she is*

Very timid about getting her thoughts out there (Just Do It)


Conclusions:

There's not a lot here because...there's not a lot to go on. I'm not one to give anybody a pass once they step into the ring Cookie, so if you're planning on playing the "I'm New pls understand" game, please know that such blendy things will not go unnoticed. That being said, Here is the only time I will offer you advice on the matter:

Everyone will 100% of the time say things you were planning on saying. Don't hide away just because you aren't first to say something is suspicious. You're the only one with your unique point of view and perspective on the matter, so say whats on your mind. I get that you're new, and that is fine up to a point, but You're not going to coast by on "I'm new and everyone keeps saying what I want to say."

Baptism by fire.

[G-Man]

Day 2 technicolor inside the spoiler tag...

Spoiler: show

DAY 2 RESULTS:

1. METALMARSH89 (MM89)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Not comfy voting any of the other 3)
2. GOLDEN (Timmer)<---Player = ???? (REASON: His posts re: Sloonei look bad; not feeling bad about other 3)
3. GOLDEN (Long Con)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Golden is the only of his suspects on the poll today)
4. GOLDEN (Cookie)<---Player = ???? (REASON: [came back well after vote] Not really sus of any of them)
5. GOLDEN (Dragon)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Golden looks worst of the 4; not sus of the other 3)
6. RUSSTIFINKO (G-Man)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Easy way out; avoiding Rorschach's hit list)
7. LONG CON (DH)<---Player = ???? (REASON: No initial explanation- further review needed)
8. METALMARSH89 (Bass)<---Player = ???? (REASON: least uncomfortable option; not really sus of others)
9. METALMARSH89 (Niju)<---Player = ???? (REASON: most sus of the 4 but even then not a strong sus)
10. METALMARSH89 (Elohcin)<---Player = ???? (REASON: MM's self-vote bugs her)
11. GOLDEN (LoRab)<---Player = ???? (REASON: not a fan of Golden's "I'm an important civ" comment)
12. METALMARSH89 (Golden)<---Player = CIVILIAN (REASON: Self-preservation)

NOT VOTING: espers, MP07, Ricochet, Russtifinko



ALTERNATE FORMAT:

2. GOLDEN (Timmer)<---Player = ???? (REASON: His posts re: Sloonei look bad; not feeling bad about other 3)
3. GOLDEN (Long Con)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Golden is the only of his suspects on the poll today)
4. GOLDEN (Cookie)<---Player = ???? (REASON: [came back well after vote] Not really sus of any of them)
5. GOLDEN (Dragon)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Golden looks worst of the 4; not sus of the other 3)
11. GOLDEN (LoRab)<---Player = ???? (REASON: not a fan of Golden's "I'm an important civ" comment)


1. METALMARSH89 (MM89)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Not comfy voting any of the other 3)
8. METALMARSH89 (Bass)<---Player = ???? (REASON: least uncomfortable option; not really sus of others)
9. METALMARSH89 (Niju)<---Player = ???? (REASON: most sus of the 4 but even then not a strong sus)
10. METALMARSH89 (Elohcin)<---Player = ???? (REASON: MM's self-vote bugs her)
12. METALMARSH89 (Golden)<---Player = CIVILIAN (REASON: Self-preservation)


6. RUSSTIFINKO (G-Man)<---Player = ???? (REASON: Easy way out; avoiding Rorschach's hit list)


7. LONG CON (DH)<---Player = ???? (REASON: No initial explanation- further review needed)


NOT VOTING:
espers<---Player = ????
MP07<---Player = ????
Ricochet<---Player = ????
Russtifinko<---Player = ????

What I infer from the votes:

-The three-vote run on MM89 was not a save attempt on Golden.

-Unfortunately, the circumstances surrounding this lynch make the data not very useful in the short term. If it was a legit power use by Nite Owl I or II, then their plan probably backfired on them. If it was somehow stolen by Moloch then it was a sneaky ploy and successful at derailing both discussion and progress for a day.

-Of those who voted for Golden, only Timmer and LoRab had much in the way of concrete reasons for doing so. Timmer at least mentioned that he thought Golden's posts re: Sloonei looked sketchy but he also said he wasn't very sus of the others. LoRab took issue with Golden's "I'm an important civvie- you guys will miss me!" comment. I can totally see why that would strike LoRab as fishy because it should strike us all as such. This time it was just civvie desperation though. LoRab had been leaning Golden's way for a while too but never had much to say about anyone else. So basically, Golden was lynched via getting the short end of the stick. Golden also had the most posts of anyone on the poll, so it's easy to see why it would be easy to construe his words as bad.

-MM89 had the second-highest post count of the four. Not surprised to see him coming in second, especially with his usual odd demeanor. His self-vote stands out as reckless but does it exonerate him from being bad? No. It could be reverse psychology / WIFOM. Why would one of the two remaining mafia members vote for himself? Perhaps he felt Golden was getting enough looks to take the rope instead of him. Bass and Niju both picked MM89 because he was the most sus of the four for them. Elo voted for him because his self-vote pinged her. From what I hear, self-voitng isn't out of the ordinary for Bass. Not sure what that might say about Elo. Golden voted out of self-preservation.

-Russtifinko didn't even show on Day 2. My vote looks odd, especially considering some of the things I said about Golden in my recap responses. That probably doesn't bode well for me unless you listen to what a few people had said in my favor. I think Sloonei cozied up to me for the credibility/setup combo meal. I'll remember that the next time I have a killing power. For the record- I will probably avoid voting in the majority this game to stay off of Rorschach's hit list. I will contribute to (or try to contribute to) a majority if I feel it is necessary to catch a baddie in a tight lynch.

-Long Con was mostly catching up Day 2. I like his thoughts on LD-gate. In fact, Long Con's line of thinking appeals to me very much. So much so that I'm half-afraid of trusting him too much. I don't want to be duped again.

[Tangrowth]

then decide for yourself whether I would risk both Sloonei and myself by making such a move as a mafia.

That's debatable. One thing I learned in Guess Who is that literally any vote can be risky, depending on what side the WIFOM swings to. If you are a baddie and voted Sloonei, not only you'd be risking him, but you'd also risk yourself by being subject to a possible accusation of bussing. If you had vote some other random person, you'd have entered the camp of people who risk having their votes being called "cop out" votes. And voting ninjuu would obviously be risky too.

What matters, imo, is how the person's posts connect to the vote they made. That said, I still have to read yours before I draw some conclusion.

This is true, DDL, every move is a risky for a teammate to certain degrees. Even Epi's super early bussing of you on D1 of Guess Who? was risky. But I don't think they're all equal.

For my taste, I much prefer to hard distance from my teammates when they're bad. I always viewed that as less risky. The two times I've soft defended my teammates in my entire mafia career (MOTU and Roger Rabbit), it burned me hard both times, because people just can't ignore soft defending. It's the worst offender and the most risky thing to do, IMO. Just look at what happened to Golden.

Of course, it depends on the circumstances, but I'm talking in the general here.

[Tangrowth]

SO I have yet to read anything past my last post which was in reference to niju being killed. Her death saddens me. She is too cool to be killed off so early. Anyway....that said, I just want to say how much I hate these rainbow lists. Find me suspicious if you want but I haven't liked them from the beginning. MP ranks Niju as his top read of civilian and then she dies. It's like saying...."hey baddies, this is the person you should kill next." I know I have picked on you a lot this game MP. I don't mean anything by it, really. Your list the just the one I found first.

- nijuukyugou is my new top read, and I'm willing to take a strong stand. She seems consistently genuine, her hesitance to pile onto Golden today bodes well, and her vote from D1 still stands out as very strong. That said, I hope to see even more baddie hunting from her. And I still am going to continue to examine and question her intentions as much as everyone else, if not even more so, but right now I have to admit that she looks better than all the rest of you.

Okay, so I just wanted to mention that. I have to get back to school now and do a little housework and then I will catch up on everything that's been said so far today. I have a splitting headache from staying up until 2am with Epi and Niju. I am SO old! And I didn't even have one drop to drink. Epi drank beer all evening and is totally fine. I don't get it.

You're allowed to think what you want, Elo, and I don't find you suspicious for this. But I disagree.

I'm firmly a believer of the thinking that civilians should all lay their thoughts out there in the open and be transparent. That's just my approach. A civilian generally has no BTSC. Mafia does. Having been on many mafia teams over the past 5 years, I can tell you that the mafia analyzes the thread and comes up with their own viewpoint on which player has civilian cred.

The mafia likely came to the same conclusions that I did, saw that Blooper had the best looking vote of Day 1 (if you don't believe me, look at it), and killed her.

If you'll notice, Golden did not have Blooper first on his rainbow list. In fact, I'm the only one that called her my top read, if I recall correctly (and I'm pretty sure about this).

It's possible the mafia are fucking with me by killing off my top reads (they killed llama N1 and Blooper N2, both of my top reads), but to automatically think that the mafia are blindly following the opinions of just ONE individual is not worth cancelling my rainbow reads. I want everyone to know everything that I'm thinking. Civilians can't win games if they hide most of what they're thinking from each other. I've seen individualistic approaches to this game, which I very much used to have (as you recall, you called my game 'selfish', which I didn't disagree with), ruin civilian wins. I'm not approaching the game like that anymore. Civilians have to view everyone skeptically, yes, always, but they should try to work as a team, and every civilian should try to engage every other civilian in discussion.

I've seen civilians DOMINATE on RYM the last few games in recent memory, and they talk A LOT, and much more of them use rainbow lists.

Rainbow Lists are not the reason Llama and Blooper are dead. Their strong civilian-like behavior are why they are dead.

[Tangrowth]

many more of them*

Sorry, those two posts are probably rife with spelling and grammatical errors, but I'm still working on my assignment due later this evening.

DH, I'm curious, are you viewing each player's posts in isolation before you post those thoughts, or are you going based on recollection, or are you reading the thread in its entirety?

Gotta go again.

[DharmaHelper]

DDL Thoughts:


Starts "joking" about lynching Golden
Jumps on MP for going "Mama Bear"
In answering MP's survey, notes that he thinks most of the Golden/G-Man thing is a joke and MP is overreacting
In fact, his defense for Most of Day 0 is "Lol JK"
Adament that his stance on "policy lynching"/BS votes will not extend to D2

Votes for Sloonei (Hadn't brought him up before), 3rd vote for Sloonei putting him ahead of Niju


"Parrots" llamas suspects (espers, Golden)
Reminder: Up until then his Golden suspicion had been a joke
Explaination of his Golden suspicion makes sense
Thoughts on espers make sense. (Espers dumped a vote on Sloonei late, was defensive of him earlier, dumped a suspect in favor of a Sloonei vote that did nothing)

Votes Golden because the other 3 are not suspicious to him
Blames the shortened poll for the mislynch


Names Me, Espers, G-Man, Cookie and MM as suspect for various reasons


Conclusions:

I find it Ironic that DDL spent so much time "joking" about lynching Golden only to wind up doing it when given an easy excuse (the shortened Day 2 poll and Golden's vote). DDL claimed to have read the other 3 suspects, but I'm not sure if I believe him. Given his thoughts on Me, MM, espers, and Cookie in particular (which you can find here: http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 72#p159172 ) I think it's strange that he suspects all of those people for inactivity/blending in and had nothing to say regarding Long Con.

He can say he did the legwork for the other suspects all he wants, but he produced none of it, so I am forced to assume he didn't do anything apart from wait until he could lynch Golden.

My money has DDL as Moloch.