Watchmen [ENDGAME]

[Cookie]

G-Man, these are the points I made about LoRab. What are your thoughts, considering you were the one she's been voting for?

I felt like I was on the same wavelength as LC and DH, so I wouldn't mind seeing LoRab dangling from the noose today. But that's really going to depend on how the six of you I listed respond to me.

Right now I am curious about the absence of Cookie and espers. If Cookie is one of the Inmates, this would be the perfect time to silence her. Lynching someone who is incapacitated in some way makes people squirmy and uncomfortable. It doesn't always work but baddies love to take advantage of the compassion of others.

I just work from 6:00 AM until 3PM so I will never post between midnight when I go to bed until the next day at 3PM EST.

[Tangrowth]

Thanks for doing that about me and I don't take anything personally at all (what would this game be like if we were all srs bsns). I actually appreciate that you've analyzed everything I've said because it puts myself into my perspective. Do you have any questions or want me to clarify anything?

I feel that I could vote for MP, as well. I find him the most outspoken and, like I said earlier, it's strange that he hasn't been NK'd yelled. If he is not an Inmate, I believe that whoever is on the middle of his rainbow list must be the remaining Inmates (or at least one or two). Those people are slowly making their way to the top because it seems that people already at the top of his list are being NK'd. It's quite smart because all of the civviest people are being killed, leaving the most suspicious. I just feel that if I were an Inmate, I would feel threatened by MP's interrogations. I haven't seen anything he's said particularly disconcerting.

My top four suspicious players are (in alphabetical order): DDL, espers, LoRab, MP

Your suspicion of me is equal parts WIFOM and unsubstantiated. Please explain.

[Ricochet]

Ricochet, the use of endgame to refer to the end of the day is weird. :P

Might I suggest we copy RYM's acronym EOD (end of day) instead?

Sure, didn't realize it grew into such a frequent tic.

I don't like the feel of typing EOD much, so I'll probably write end of day or Dx end.

[Tangrowth]

RIP LC and welcome back, Scotty!

Scotty, your Cookie analysis here is very good. I'm glad to have you back in the game.

You express a high propensity to vote for Cookie, but where else are you looking?

Thanks, sock!

As I said, Cookie will probably get my vote today unless she can get switch from suspect "vibe"ration to suspect substantiation. (#DrSeuss)

LoRab seems bad as well, so she also could be a candidate.

Elo is lurking on my radar, and MM <3 of course.

Other than that, I don't have any strong mafia reads on anyone currently. Bass (now juliets) I had no problem with in Day 1 (even though he was all over my ass like baby powder), and I've since cooled off from out Night 1 debacle, and don't currently suspect you.

Do you still think I'm bad? Have you an updated rainbow list you might like to share with the class?

You're welcome!

Noted, thanks for explaining. What do you make of Elo's D1 vote?

FYI, TinyBubbles was Bass; juliets was timmer.

No, I do not currently have reason to believe you are mafia. I suppose it's possible, still, since you were NKed by a civilian and resurrected by a civiiian, and it's possible that Dr. Manhattan did not have confirmation that you are civilian as well. Consequently, I intend on continuing to analyze your behavior, and will let you know if I have questions or concerns.

[Marmot]

Ricochet, the use of endgame to refer to the end of the day is weird. :P

Might I suggest we copy RYM's acronym EOD (end of day) instead?

Sure, didn't realize it grew into such a frequent tic.

I don't like the feel of typing EOD much, so I'll probably write end of day or Dx end.

I like Dx (or Dx Day). Dunno why, but that's rad.

[Tangrowth]

Scotty, to elaborate, while I do not still understand the logic behind your Elo suspicion nor your vote for her EoD D1, and found it particularly suspicious because Elo can often be suspected as a low-hanging fruit, the circumstances of your death and my re-read of your behavior both lead me to believe that I was likely incorrect about you.

[G-Man]

G-Man, first I have to ask, why are you limiting your vote today to those players? Can you elaborate on why you find them more suspicious than those you have eliminated?

Second, in my defense, I've already been faced with accusations and heat from you, DDL, Scotty, and LC. I believe I've already explained my behavior, and offered responses to such concerns:
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 20#p159120
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 46#p159346
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 68#p159368
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 85#p159485
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 58#p159858
etc.

If you still have questions for me, please let me know.

1-a) Because I choose to.
1-b) Yes, I can.
2) Thank you. I shall review those links.
3) None yet but I will let you know.

I look forward to your elaboration.

Don't hold your breath. My work day is over and I have to mow after dinner. Then there's the tail end of Sesame Street and bedtime stories. I'll probably poke my nose back in here close to EoD.

G-Man, these are the points I made about LoRab. What are your thoughts, considering you were the one she's been voting for?

I felt like I was on the same wavelength as LC and DH, so I wouldn't mind seeing LoRab dangling from the noose today. But that's really going to depend on how the six of you I listed respond to me.

Right now I am curious about the absence of Cookie and espers. If Cookie is one of the Inmates, this would be the perfect time to silence her. Lynching someone who is incapacitated in some way makes people squirmy and uncomfortable. It doesn't always work but baddies love to take advantage of the compassion of others.

I just work from 6:00 AM until 3PM so I will never post between midnight when I go to bed until the next day at 3PM EST.

Thanks for the info. Between time zones and work hours, it's always good to have some idea of other players' availability. I tend to be more active while I'm at work.

Ricochet, the use of endgame to refer to the end of the day is weird. :P

Might I suggest we copy RYM's acronym EOD (end of day) instead?

Sure, didn't realize it grew into such a frequent tic.

I don't like the feel of typing EOD much, so I'll probably write end of day or Dx end.

I like Dx (or Dx Day). Dunno why, but that's rad.

Dx looks like it should be read as 'dicks' though. Then again, EoD is awfully close to ED, so I guess we're all a bunch of perverts.

[Epignosis]

ika is replacing espers.

[ika]

so im not going to read anything and going to go from here.

anything i should know offhand?

[Marmot]

Scotty, to elaborate, while I do not still understand the logic behind your Elo suspicion nor your vote for her EoD D1, and found it particularly suspicious because Elo can often be suspected as a low-hanging fruit, the circumstances of your death and my re-read of your behavior both lead me to believe that I was likely incorrect about you.

I don't understand how the circumstances of his death would change your read on him.

The only thing his death confirms is that he's not the Comedian.

Linki: Welcome ika. I hope you like Rico's Dx.

[Marmot]

so im not going to read anything and going to go from here.

anything i should know offhand?

Just vote for LoRab, she is bad.

[Tangrowth]

Noted, G-Man. Don't worry, RL comes first.

Welcome, ika! Didn't expect that. See you in another game, espers.

I think it's wise that we do not let the prospect of replacement lessen the suspicion held against any of the players that are being replaced out. I still think espers had, rightfully so, suspicion surrounding him, and I think it's healthy if we maintain skepticism of him nonetheless.

Oh, Scotty! I forgot. Your rainbow list request. Russtifinko and Elo both suggested that such behavior was unproductive, and there were concerns expressed about the mafia killing off my reads, so I decided to compromise with half-rainbow lists.

Despite the fact that I think such fears are unfounded, I acquiesced.

I'll gladly provide a half-list of at least my current mafia reads shortly.

[G-Man]

so im not going to read anything and going to go from here.

anything i should know offhand?

Intriguing- I took that same stance when I subbed into BoB. I was a baddie.

Defend yourself and the posts & votes of your predecessor in 500 words or less. You have three hours. Grammar counts for half of your final grade.

[Marmot]

Noted, G-Man. Don't worry, RL comes first.

Welcome, ika! Didn't expect that. See you in another game, espers.

I think it's wise that we do not let the prospect of replacement lessen the suspicion held against any of the players that are being replaced out. I still think espers had, rightfully so, suspicion surrounding him, and I think it's healthy if we maintain skepticism of him nonetheless.

Oh, Scotty! I forgot. Your rainbow list request. Russtifinko and Elo both suggested that such behavior was unproductive, and there were concerns expressed about the mafia killing off my reads, so I decided to compromise with half-rainbow lists.

Despite the fact that I think such fears are unfounded, I acquiesced.

I'll gladly provide a half-list of at least my current mafia reads shortly.

Is transparency not working out for you MP? :P

[Tangrowth]

so im not going to read anything and going to go from here.

anything i should know offhand?

I highly suggest you read whatever content you possibly can.

That said, juliets has recently replaced in for timmer, and Rico provided a nice summary that you should read here.

[Tangrowth]

Noted, G-Man. Don't worry, RL comes first.

Welcome, ika! Didn't expect that. See you in another game, espers.

I think it's wise that we do not let the prospect of replacement lessen the suspicion held against any of the players that are being replaced out. I still think espers had, rightfully so, suspicion surrounding him, and I think it's healthy if we maintain skepticism of him nonetheless.

Oh, Scotty! I forgot. Your rainbow list request. Russtifinko and Elo both suggested that such behavior was unproductive, and there were concerns expressed about the mafia killing off my reads, so I decided to compromise with half-rainbow lists.

Despite the fact that I think such fears are unfounded, I acquiesced.

I'll gladly provide a half-list of at least my current mafia reads shortly.

Is transparency not working out for you MP? :P

I will admit that the mafia have gotten under my skin somewhat this game. Despite putting forth tons of effort, I have suspicion surrounding me, I haven't successfully led a lynch on a mafia to date, I have people clamoring telling me to stop the rainbow reads because they somehow think they are leading to the deaths of players exhibiting high civilian behavior, etc. It's aggravating.

[ika]

so im not going to read anything and going to go from here.

anything i should know offhand?

Just vote for LoRab, she is bad.

Got reasons i dont vote on empty basis

so im not going to read anything and going to go from here.

anything i should know offhand?

Intriguing- I took that same stance when I subbed into BoB. I was a baddie.

Defend yourself and the posts & votes of your predecessor in 500 words or less. You have three hours. Grammar counts for half of your final grade.

SOZ IFZ i TIPE LIK THIZ I GTETS GOOD GREADS?

the main reason im not actuly catching up is cus im in 1 lare on my homesite, 3 larges on another and then 3 smaller games

[ika]

thats not a half bad summary. I should go look at setup first :P

Be back in a bit

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Gonna catch up and start posting again in a while, people. I just started playing another game (why do I keep doing that) and it's 30 minutes till EOD.

so im not going to read anything and going to go from here.

anything i should know offhand?

Yes.

The previous player who had your vote only survived last day's lynch because of a coinflip, and is near the top of everyone's baddie lists.

[Marmot]

so im not going to read anything and going to go from here.

anything i should know offhand?

Just vote for LoRab, she is bad.

Got reasons i dont vote on empty basis

Will you read my reasons if I post them?

[Scotty]

Hmm. Has anyone done an ISO on Russ recently? I'm vey interested to see if and how he votes tonight, seeing as he missed Day 2 and 3. He was even active Day 3 with 4 paragraph-y posts, so I'm not sure what made him miss that vote

Going to work now. However, I definitely will be active today. Some players I'm considering (in no particular order):

espers, Cookie, LoRab G-Man, MP <---Some of these are VERY mild suspicions,I'm just trying to keep an open mind.

Players I probably would not vote toy (barring drastic changes):

Elo, MM, Bass

He's got some suspicions, but some of those I don't recognize as him having expressed an opinion on them, so let's see where he got those suspicions.. (I color coded for reference)

I'd have to read espers to develop an opinion there, since I don't have one as of my first thread read-through.

I'm not really buying the LoRab angle on the D1 vote. You're saying you think two baddie teammates tried to start lynch trains on two separate people to save Sloonei before she got any votes? With only 3 of them total, it seems crazy to me that they'd split up their voting power so early if they thought Sloonei might need defending.

So if anything, to me the currently most suspicious D1 vote is espers. Keep in mind, a baddie voting late in a lynch for a teammate actually has a LOWER risk than a civ doing the same thing, because they know they won't end up on Rorschach's hit list.

Linki: I dunno. I suppose Elo could be bad, but when she voted Sloonei it was tied up with Blooper. I dunno if I see a mafia Elo giving up on a teammate so early.

Hmmm, having read back on espers he seems above-board to me so far. What he's brought to the discussion has been open and well-reasoned.

Regarding espers, like I said, it definitely seems one of the safer votes on the day. However, my suspicion of espers basically rests solely on that at the moment, and without seeing anything suspicious in his posts I doubt I'd go that way yet. I'd say 30% chance I vote him, but that's mainly because I don't have another stronger case atm. If I did it'd be lower.

I honestly did not have a major suspicion going into this, which is a problem given how much has happened. I'd likely have voted espers, as I said, primarily for lack of a better case.

Geez it looks like that was intense.

Linki: I agree Cookies' and Elo's votes are quick flips. Fwiw I read Elo as genuine, and Cookie, being new to our brand of mafia, may not be aware of how strongly quick flips are frowned upon. Just think it's worth bearing in mind.

But idk who IS suspicious yet today. I feel like I'm stating back at Square One after missing yesterday - most of my reads so far are just slight gut and my "I always think _____ is ____." type stuff.

I want to know a few things from you, Russ.
1) Is espers still your top read?
It sounds like you don't have any major suspicions of anyone still, and of the person you do have a suspicion for, it's weak sauce. And you admit that. Very close to how Cookie is playing, except that Cookie has a prescribed handicap, whereas you do not (Unless you ARE new, in which case I apologize).
2) Since you would rather vote Cookie over, say, Elo, why is that? I don't see you making a lot of cases about Cookie. Mostly all I've seen from you is defending Elo. Do you feel like you have been defending Elo, at least softly?
3) The only time you mention LoRab is in the piece I highlighted, and even then you were doubting her badness. Why do you suspect her now?
4) What specifically about Elo, MM and Bass (juliets) doesn't make you lean towards voting them? And why just those 3?

linki- holy cow I missed a bunch in the past half hour. Welcome ika (cya espers)!

[Ricochet]

Lotta replacements.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I meant "your role", not "your vote"

[Tangrowth]

Scotty, I need to start conducting ISO's now. I've been meaning to for some time. I'll look at Russ first, since his posts earlier today had me wondering about him. I thought he said my conduct seemed "super civ" or something, so to see my name on his suspect list today puzzled me. I'll go look at him now.

[Ricochet]

The Day picking up in activity is messing with my abilities to focus and finish the reads. Why can't I do them at 10am in the morning?

Russ - Four more posts since my last read. Not much change, still neutral. Has said a number of times already that he only his mild suspicions on certain players; but he's vouching to "clean up his act", so looking forward to that. As I've said already, his rainbow WIFOM NK theory depends on how much we intend to speculate that it's Guess Who all over again and the Mafia are patterning their kills.

I can't say Scotty's death confirmed him as civ, but The Comedian's kill was probably as cold choice as it gets with ninja kills - if Llama was the Comedian, then I can hardly say it was indicative of anything. Then again, just like The Comedian used his kill on him, Manhattan might have used his rezz with some reason as well. So far his [Scotty's] reads seem fine. I could probably use an extra day of activity or such to try read him post-rezz properly.

TinyBubbles - Hi, TinyBubbles

ika - Hi, ika. Agreed on it not erasing espers' game and suspicions, so good luck ika, I can only say that you have quite a challenge ahead of you.

juliets - interesting reads so far on Cookie and LoRab.

[ika]

so im not going to read anything and going to go from here.

anything i should know offhand?

Just vote for LoRab, she is bad.

Got reasons i dont vote on empty basis

Will you read my reasons if I post them?

yes

[Scotty]

Thanks for doing that about me and I don't take anything personally at all (what would this game be like if we were all srs bsns). I actually appreciate that you've analyzed everything I've said because it puts myself into my perspective. Do you have any questions or want me to clarify anything?

I feel that I could vote for MP, as well. I find him the most outspoken and, like I said earlier, it's strange that he hasn't been NK'd yelled. If he is not an Inmate, I believe that whoever is on the middle of his rainbow list must be the remaining Inmates (or at least one or two). Those people are slowly making their way to the top because it seems that people already at the top of his list are being NK'd. It's quite smart because all of the civviest people are being killed, leaving the most suspicious. I just feel that if I were an Inmate, I would feel threatened by MP's interrogations. I haven't seen anything he's said particularly disconcerting.

My top four suspicious players are (in alphabetical order): DDL, espers, LoRab, MP

Thanks for getting back to me Cookie, and I'm glad I didn't seem too overbearing.
You did indeed answer my main question to you pertaining to suspicions. Now the follow-up to that is: why? I think you said why DDL and MP, but why espers, and LoRab?

I color'd my opinion you have about MP. I consistently see you give suspicion to someone, then back up in the same breath. Just commit to a read, woman!

You also seem rather calm in your thanking both DDL and I for ripping into you. I'm quite taken aback and need to go get a because that is not the reaction I was expecting to rise from you.

[Scotty]

My responses in pink. (I like doing it this way better than responding to indiv quotes within quotes)

RIP LC and welcome back, Scotty!

Scotty, your Cookie analysis here is very good. I'm glad to have you back in the game.

You express a high propensity to vote for Cookie, but where else are you looking?

Thanks, sock!

As I said, Cookie will probably get my vote today unless she can get switch from suspect "vibe"ration to suspect substantiation. (#DrSeuss)

LoRab seems bad as well, so she also could be a candidate.

Elo is lurking on my radar, and MM <3 of course.

Other than that, I don't have any strong mafia reads on anyone currently. Bass (now juliets) I had no problem with in Day 1 (even though he was all over my ass like baby powder), and I've since cooled off from out Night 1 debacle, and don't currently suspect you.

Do you still think I'm bad? Have you an updated rainbow list you might like to share with the class?

You're welcome!

Noted, thanks for explaining. What do you make of Elo's D1 vote?
I think (and I've said this before) that her one saving grace from my thought of her in the mafia camp is that vote. It was a big factor in pushing for Sloonei's death. I think it could still be very likely she is not good, but I haven't- honestly- read into her as much as LoRab, Cookie and Russ today
FYI, TinyBubbles was Bass; juliets was timmer.
Ah right, shit. My bad, ladies. You're both stars to me.

No, I do not currently have reason to believe you are mafia. I suppose it's possible, still, since you were NKed by a civilian and resurrected by a civiiian, and it's possible that Dr. Manhattan did not have confirmation that you are civilian as well. Consequently, I intend on continuing to analyze your behavior, and will let you know if I have questions or concerns.
Cool, while you're looking into me, let me know if you find a $20 bill. I lost it last night in my room, so it's probably around somewhere

[Scotty]

Noted, G-Man. Don't worry, RL comes first.

Welcome, ika! Didn't expect that. See you in another game, espers.

I think it's wise that we do not let the prospect of replacement lessen the suspicion held against any of the players that are being replaced out. I still think espers had, rightfully so, suspicion surrounding him, and I think it's healthy if we maintain skepticism of him nonetheless.

Oh, Scotty! I forgot. Your rainbow list request. Russtifinko and Elo both suggested that such behavior was unproductive, and there were concerns expressed about the mafia killing off my reads, so I decided to compromise with half-rainbow lists.

Despite the fact that I think such fears are unfounded, I acquiesced.

I'll gladly provide a half-list of at least my current mafia reads shortly.

Is transparency not working out for you MP? :P

I will admit that the mafia have gotten under my skin somewhat this game. Despite putting forth tons of effort, I have suspicion surrounding me, I haven't successfully led a lynch on a mafia to date, I have people clamoring telling me to stop the rainbow reads because they somehow think they are leading to the deaths of players exhibiting high civilian behavior, etc. It's aggravating.

I mean you do you, MP. I never particularly cared for rainbow lists (at least sharing them, myself), but am mostly curious who your [bad] reads are.

As far as Russ' thought of posting rainbow lists = giving mafia ammo, I think that's a load of crock. I refuse to believe mafia can't come up with civ-looking people on their own. But if you believe that it is somehow affecting mafia decisions, then feel free to withhold your rainbows.

[Tangrowth]

After ISOing Russ, he's squarely on my mafia list. He's playing a very careful game. I hope he is able to fully engage us today and explain better where all of his reads are coming from.

I'll give you folks a mafia rainbow in just a few minutes here.

[Scotty]

Ricochet, did you read anything I wrote about Russ?

Is he still squarely in your neutral camp?

[Tangrowth]

Here are all of the players that I'm currently considering for my D4 vote, from least to most likely:

Elohcin
Dragon D. Luffy
G-Man
Metalmarsh89

Russtifinko

Cookie
LoRab

espers / ika

I'm going to actually read these players' posts in isolation and construct an ISO post on all of them right now.

[Ricochet]

Eloh is lurking for a while, I think. She already commented today on receiving some sort of info (?), so I think it rules out being silenced.

is ika m or f

I'm going to with a gut opinion on MP and work my way back to the arguments or rely on discussing it with him or being linked to past explanations - sorry, but re-reading MP is constantly a heavy process that has found me closer towards the end of the Day the past two times and completely uncertain if I can complete it successfully in time.

I think he is clearly the heaviest participant, in terms of content, post count and analysis and the overall pattern I can describe for him is analytical, inquisitive and rather controlled in other regards (especially going ape when suspected, of course). I've both seen it before and yet not quite to the extent he's doing it here, in some details at least. I don't have any kind of strong suspicion on him, but that doesn't mean there aren't things I find shaky in his MO, either.

His ways of constantly questioning people for reads, vote choices, follow up questions and such are definitely forming a leitmotif; he has called questioning and poking the best way to potentially unnerve Mafia, which is fair, but overall I'm not entirely sure if it's a town-proof method or if it sometimes feels like he's putting up a screen by making others think of their own choices, rather than exchanging it both ways. This is very stream-of-consciousness read into his ways of discussion, I know, but there you go.

As for the Rainbow NK theory, I've already said it can very well paint MP with WIFOM; I think it depends how much we're all willing to think about Guess Who and how the framing technique there could be potentially replicated here. Did MP himself keep up with that game enough to realize that pattern? For the moment, I'm willing to call it a stretch.

The one thing that truly makes me wary about MP sometimes is the way he pushed his reads and votes very close to the end on both D1 and D3, including feeling constantly hesitant about certain players or mulling over voting on them, the stream of questioning others rather than, at times, focusing on wrapping up his own thought process and decision making and such. His Scotty and Cookie votes can be seen two ways (or more? idk), methinks: either both Scotty and Cookie spooked him with their odd timing and voting choices, enough to make him jump on them instead (with enough reason to it, as well), either he's keeping the fishing rod in till the very end of the phase and jumps on choices that stray from the main lynch paths - denoting either a reluctance or fear of mislynching (Rorschach's gambit) or a non-committal way out of the lynch phase.

[Ricochet]

Ricochet, did you read anything I wrote about Russ?

Is he still squarely in your neutral camp?

I did, but I also noted the second part of questions you addressed to him, which make me interested in his reply. His "mild coating" on his suspicions is basically what makes me "mildly wary", at this point.

[Scotty]

Ricochet, did you read anything I wrote about Russ?

Is he still squarely in your neutral camp?

I did, but I also noted the second part of questions you addressed to him, which make me interested in his reply. His "mild coating" on his suspicions is basically what makes me "mildly wary", at this point.

Gotcha.

As for the Rainbow NK theory, I've already said it can very well paint MP with WIFOM; I think it depends how much we're all willing to think about Guess Who and how the framing technique there could be potentially replicated here. Did MP himself keep up with that game enough to realize that pattern? For the moment, I'm willing to call it a stretch.
Can you expand on what the framing looked like? I'm sorry, I know nothing about Guess Who except that I always lost as a kid.

The one thing that truly makes me wary about MP sometimes is the way he pushed his reads and votes very close to the end on both D1 and D3, including feeling constantly hesitant about certain players or mulling over voting on them, the stream of questioning others rather than, at times, focusing on wrapping up his own thought process and decision making and such. His Scotty and Cookie votes can be seen two ways (or more? idk), methinks: either both Scotty and Cookie spooked him with their odd timing and voting choices, enough to make him jump on them instead (with enough reason to it, as well), either he's keeping the fishing rod in till the very end of the phase and jumps on choices that stray from the main lynch paths - denoting either a reluctance or fear of mislynching (Rorschach's gambit) or a non-committal way out of the lynch phase.
His votes, when looked at through a vacuum, are particularly unsettling, yes. D1 aside, the chance to save one of DH or espers on Day 3 and instead putting his vote on Cookie as one of the last voters was glaring. He may not have had a good read on either at the time, but then how do we explain espers being at the bottom of his list today? That's a quick turn-around for a vote that could have been placed on espers yesterday.

MP, what prompted the switch to espers being at the scummiest side of your list today?

[ika]

is ika m or f

ill tell you if you tell me

[Ricochet]

As for the Rainbow NK theory, I've already said it can very well paint MP with WIFOM; I think it depends how much we're all willing to think about Guess Who and how the framing technique there could be potentially replicated here. Did MP himself keep up with that game enough to realize that pattern? For the moment, I'm willing to call it a stretch.
Can you expand on what the framing looked like? I'm sorry, I know nothing about Guess Who except that I always lost as a kid.

I made reads during the first Night, with llama being my top suspicion, and got killed ( ). The pattern of lynching talkative players continued throughout four or five nights, most of the victims suspecting Llama more and more for doing it on purpose. He didn't and was civ, but painting him as such was clearly the point. Epignosis, as mafia members, clearly acknowledged this pattern post-game.

Thus, in this case, if you'd say "the Mafia are killing top civ reads off rainbow list", MP would be painted for having two of the third victims so far as top civ reads on his lists.

[Ricochet]

is ika m or f

ill tell you if you tell me

Dx

(uhm meaning m)

[Scotty]

is ika m or f

ill tell you if you tell me

Dx

(uhm meaning m)

I smell a budding romance

[Ricochet]

Good question on espers' leap from "hesitant" and "<safe> vote" to top baddie read in MP's list. MP, was the replacement an incentive for you to believe espers might have pulled out as a smoke screen, or did you post more about feeling worse about espers game since D3?

[LoRab]

Home from a busy day at work. Read through the posts...will now go back and respond to those about me. I'm not bad, and it would be funny that people seem so sure of their suspicion of me if it weren't so darn frustrating.

[Russtifinko]

Off the top of my head, I wouldn't be surprised if Eloh would copy this technique from how her baddie husband did it back in Guess Who. But I'm sure others can be just devious.

You say you don't see her as suspicious, Russ, why?

Mainly it's a gut read, I suppose. I just see Elo being Elo. Elo ALWAYS does things that look baddie to people, and she's usually a player a lot of people waffle on. Like someone said, she's a pretty easy target for a frame job sometimes, and occasionally baddies have gotten away with having her lynched and saying "well it's her fault anyway - she was acting weird". Don't want anything like that to happen here.

I think her posts seem super carefree and relaxed, and I do not see baddie Elo as carefree.

-MM is still on my watch-list. His self-vote on Day 2 didn't inspire confidence, but I see he has at least added to the conversation since Day 1. Which is a welcome sight. I'm interested in breaking down the Day 2 votes between he and Golden.

Oh, hi Scotty. Nice to see you again.

Hello again, my friend.

Seriously though, I still don't have my mind made up on you. Unfortunately I don't know if I will until I see your alignment. I may have to do some research on previous games to see how you function/play because on the surface you're quite mysterious. Chalking it up to my inexperience with you. Russ trusts you, LC trusted you (and if Russ is right, you better watch out! You were high up in his rainbow list). So I want to figure out what I'm missing so I can possibly get out of this tunnel.

So let's lynch LoRab today.

Is that how you're voting today? You said yesterday that she should be lynched today, so why not just put your vote in?

Yeah, I've realized this game that Vompatti + words = MM.

Linki: I didn't play Guess Who, so I can't speculate on the framing angle. I just know that for baddies, killing super duper civs is always a good move because it makes lynches murkier.

[Tangrowth]

Working on Elo ISO now.

Regarding espers, I think the fact that espers chose to get a replacement, instead of attempting to complete what he started, pings me considerably. I know it's WIFOM, but I don't understand why a civilian would replace out amid such heavy suspicion, especially when other candidates became a possibility instead of him today (such as Cookie and LoRab). I think espers was hoping that it would buy him the necessary time to stay away from lynching.

Also, espers never really left my "scummiest" read, since he was at the bottom yesterday. I am trying to not tunnel "easy" reads that the thread seems to mostly suspect, because I don't want us to fall into autopilot mode, but I realize today that perhaps I'm trying to overcompensate too much in that regard and that I should continue to apply appropriate pressure if someone is truly acting scummy. espers kept promising baddie hunting, but never delivered, and his D1 vote still reeks of last minute bussing.

[ika]

is ika m or f

ill tell you if you tell me

Dx

(uhm meaning m)

m here too.

how are you?

[Elohcin]

so im not going to read anything and going to go from here.

anything i should know offhand?

Intriguing- I took that same stance when I subbed into BoB. I was a baddie.

Defend yourself and the posts & votes of your predecessor in 500 words or less. You have three hours. Grammar counts for half of your final grade.

I don't know ika, but this doesn't seem like a civilian strategy at all. I would rather you not sub in than sub in a half-ass it. And are you are in eight games? When do you have time to work, eat, or poop? I like G-Man's response to ika here. I too look forward to what he/she has to say.

Ironically, I was thinking about meeting you halfway as well MP and making my own (half) rainbow list. And then I read that you decided to compromise too:) After ika's first posts in the game along with what espers left behind, and then with Cookie all of a sudden getting involved after being suspected and not being confused anymore, this is my list.

Cookie
ika/espers
Lorab
MM
Russ

I don't think I suspect G-Man much anymore. Too many others have risen above him in baddie behaviors.

@Rico...I don't lurk. I leave Mafia up and I don't hide my status. I have done school with the kids, went to walmart, worked out, and taken the kids in the pool today and I have been ON this whole time. I have actually been reading the thread for the past few hours just here and there. In the time I have been back and forth reading, I have showered, bathed children, made afternoon snacks, did the dishes, and built a spiderman puzzle. I'm super woman.

[Tangrowth]

Random thought:

Russ's D1 suspicion of Elo was rather intense, by D1 standards, and even by his suspicions ever since, as he hasn't committed to a strong read. He didn't end up voting for Elo on D1. Ever since the Sloonei flip and Elo's pivotal vote, he has been defending her hard.

Fast forward to recent Elo, the Elo who voted for me D3, despite consistently finding me a civilian read, because she couldn't articulate ANY suspects. Now she suddenly has a rainbow list, with Russtifinko at the bottom, and she has never expressed any read of him previously.

I could see Elo and Russtifinko being the remaining two mafia.

Discuss.

[Tangrowth]

Also, Elo and Russ were the two players who have speculated on my rainbow reads being the reasons that mafia were killing my top reads. What better way to seem as though they're concerned for the town than to push this WIFOM as much as they can?

[Ricochet]

Working on Elo ISO now.

Regarding espers, I think the fact that espers chose to get a replacement, instead of attempting to complete what he started, pings me considerably. I know it's WIFOM, but I don't understand why a civilian would replace out amid such heavy suspicion, especially when other candidates became a possibility instead of him today (such as Cookie and LoRab). I think espers was hoping that it would buy him the necessary time to stay away from lynching.

Also, espers never really left my "scummiest" read, since he was at the bottom yesterday. I am trying to not tunnel "easy" reads that the thread seems to mostly suspect, because I don't want us to fall into autopilot mode, but I realize today that perhaps I'm trying to overcompensate too much in that regard and that I should continue to apply appropriate pressure if someone is truly acting scummy. espers kept promising baddie hunting, but never delivered, and his D1 vote still reeks of last minute bussing.

Maybe so on paper, but you also

"had doubts about espers being mafia"
weren't sure you "want this to become a LoRab/espers contest"
were "hesitant, especially because I don't want to create a meaningless lynch with a bunch of votes on only espers"

[Russtifinko]

Spoiler: show

Where I left off, but with a few more days of info..
Some thoughts before I go too in depth over the next day:

-Elo is reading slightly civ for me right now. Whereas Day 1 was full of shenanigans and Jesus toast all around, I'm not convinced right now that she would have had a hand in Sloonei's death.
-I think several people have been on to something with the LoRab reads. I'll be looking thoroughly into her tomorrow. But she has had her blinders on GMan for a full 3 cycles and I don't particularly find GMan threatening at the moment.
-Cookie is another one that strikes me as particularly blendy and most likely bad.
-MM is still on my watch-list. His self-vote on Day 2 didn't inspire confidence, but I see he has at least added to the conversation since Day 1. Which is a welcome sight. I'm interested in breaking down the Day 2 votes between he and Golden.
-LC The NK of LC is interesting because he was HARDLY the most civ-sounding person here. Makes me wonder what strategy mafia are playing with at this juncture.

LC's last reads for reference:

LoRab
Bass_the_Clever
Cookie
MovingPictures07
espers
Russtifinko
Dragon D. Luffy
Elohcin
juliets
Ricochet
G-Man
Metalmarsh89
Long Con

Note that Bass and LoRab are not exclusively mafia-reads for LC, but for others as well, so I don't see the likelihood of a frame job. Something to think about. Going to look an see if I (we) can't find clues into what would inspire a dead LC..

I think the evidence is right here. Third night in a row someone's killed off the top civ read in a rainbow list. Could be we're looking at baddie(s) who hate rainbow lists, or someone just thinks it's hilarious and is trolling us.

Russtifinko, what motivation would a mafia team have in performing NKs in such a fashion?
I think I've pretty much beat this to death. Again, I don't think the deaths are specifically because of your rainbow lists. I think the baddies are following a strong strategy of just killing the most civvie people.

I also think full rainbow lists make that super easy, and that the top half doesn't benefit the civs at all anyway. But Scotty is probably right that very civ people would die anyway. And for the record, I have always been very pro-half rainbow lists.

Spoiler: show

Going to work now. However, I definitely will be active today. Some players I'm considering (in no particular order):

espers, Cookie, LoRab G-Man, MP <---Some of these are VERY mild suspicions,I'm just trying to keep an open mind.

Players I probably would not vote toy (barring drastic changes):

Elo, MM, Bass

Russtifinko, I want explanation as to why you are considering these players only for your vote.
I'm...not? Note it says SOME players I'm considering. They're just the ones I'm leaning most toward.

Linki: I think based on the colors that I am not Elo's top baddie read, but rather the lowest suspicion she felt worth mentioning, MP. Just so we avoid overstating cases.

[Tangrowth]

Working on Elo ISO now.

Regarding espers, I think the fact that espers chose to get a replacement, instead of attempting to complete what he started, pings me considerably. I know it's WIFOM, but I don't understand why a civilian would replace out amid such heavy suspicion, especially when other candidates became a possibility instead of him today (such as Cookie and LoRab). I think espers was hoping that it would buy him the necessary time to stay away from lynching.

Also, espers never really left my "scummiest" read, since he was at the bottom yesterday. I am trying to not tunnel "easy" reads that the thread seems to mostly suspect, because I don't want us to fall into autopilot mode, but I realize today that perhaps I'm trying to overcompensate too much in that regard and that I should continue to apply appropriate pressure if someone is truly acting scummy. espers kept promising baddie hunting, but never delivered, and his D1 vote still reeks of last minute bussing.

Maybe so on paper, but you also

"had doubts about espers being mafia"
weren't sure you "want this to become a LoRab/espers contest"
were "hesitant, especially because I don't want to create a meaningless lynch with a bunch of votes on only espers"

I don't argue any of those claims.