Watchmen [ENDGAME]

[Marmot]

20-vote lynch train? Yowza. How many players are in that game? I think Snowman's lynch in Death Note was the biggest I recall. Over 15 or so.

Oh man, you missed my implosion in Harry Stephen Keeler Mafia where I took 15 votes.

[Tangrowth]

Before I leave, I have a random question for everyone:

Let's say that Epi decided you won some contest and gave you one role check to be used tonight. Which player would you use it on and why?

The reason I ask this question is in realizing that we can only afford 2 more mislynches (3 and we lose) going forward. So I want players to actively think about not only which players seem most likely to be mafia, but also which players would be more unpredictable or dangerous to have around in LyLo.

(for those who are unaware of the terminology, LyLo = Lynch and Lose, and it indicates the lynch/Day period in which, if the civilians mislynch one of their own, they lose the game)

I think this is worth discussing.

Be back later.

[Marmot]

I would rolecheck myself to make sure I read my role correctly at the beginning.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

20-vote lynch train? Yowza. How many players are in that game? I think Snowman's lynch in Death Note was the biggest I recall. Over 15 or so.

49. But I think 3 were already dead when the lynch started.

[G-Man]

I just had my longest post ever get deleted on my phone. I want to cry. I didn't save it.

It was my magnum opus.

I don't know if I can repeat it. I spent 2 hours typing it out on this PIEXE OF SHIT PHONE DAMMIT.

I know your pain.

Note thAt this is the last read GMan has on espers before voting him, even though he had like 5 other people on his radar for more suspicious reasons. But he votes espers not because espers is bad but because he wanted to "save DH". Like 4 more people voted after GMAn in that last 10 min, so it wouldn't be a stretch to assume that he assumed there would be more votes thrown in other directions. DH had a healthy amount of suspicion, after all. And by tieing the vote at 2-2 it at least have him cred in case espers flipped bad.

Where as LoRab essentially votes espers out in Day 4, where she could have tied it, GMAn just tied it on a person he had a neutral read on anyway. Weird voting but again looks good for him if espers does get voted out and flips. Espers was leaving after the vote anyway, so what better time to appear civ

I had no inside information on either DH or espers but DH was saying things that made firm sense to me. Seeing him in the lead on the poll that close to the end was unconscionable to me and I wasn't about to add a vote to myself to save DH. My vote on espers was all about protecting a player I thought was good. I took a stand but it wasn't enough.

GMan votes LoRab. LoRab had some healthy suspicion at this point, but note that GMan did not just vote to save someone like he said day 3. Crap I'm out of time.

I haven't voted for LoRab at all this game. I'm confused.



Personally, I think we should revisit this gem because part of me wants very much to believe that MP07 is trying to pull the biggest swindle I've ever seen.

TIN FOIL READ ON MOVINGPICTURES07:
D1: 11th vote overall, 2nd vote for Scotty. Talks up suspicions of his teammate early and then slowly backs it down with detailed posts on why Sloonei isn't so suspicious after all. It's subtle defense hidden behind personal observations and reasoning. In theory, he shouldn't get called out on back-tracking on Sloonei because he provided oh so much evidence to support his waning suspicions. He then latches onto Bass's suspicions of Scotty and posts a very detailed theory on why Scotty must be bad. See that? He subtly defended Slooeni while trying to stir the pot on Scotty- both times using his big-talker meta as a shield for his wicked intentions. His vote for Scotty has it 2-2 between Niju and Scotty and just one vote behind his teammate. All he needs is one or two followers to take the bait and get then he can castigate them for their votes after the fact. Too bad no one bit. Possibly silenced himself because that's what baddies do when they think they can get away with it.

D2: Misses the vote. He was silenced and couldn't vote but he wastes his silencing because he's not even on the poll so it doesn't build any sympathy for him whatsoever. Maybe he even encouraged espers to skip the vote because- hey, no Inmates on the poll so why even stick our necks out with a vote?

D3: Keeps his teammate in his top tier of suspects and waits until almost the last minute to vote. Why? To see if espers needs his help. He knows he can't vote DH without getting called on it so he votes sideways for one of his other suspects, using Cookie's rough game against her. He tries to pump up the "Cookie is bad!" wavelength something fierce but no one bites. He gets lucky because espers survived the lynch poll tie. Now he needs someone new to rail against alongside Cookie and decides now is the time to use Elo's odd play this game against her.

D4: 9th vote overall, 3rd vote on Cookie. His vote brings Cookie within 1 vote of tying espers/ika. Despite a lot of agreement that espers/ika is bad new, he caves and falls back on Cookie a second day in a row. It's designed to look consistent though because she doesn't look so great and was in MP07's suspect list already. After the flip, he goes hard at pushing his Elo case. He silences her Night 4 and stirs the pot early by voting for her amidst his verbosity. It attracts a second vote before anyone's realized that Elo has been possibly silenced.

[Ricochet]

Before I leave, I have a random question for everyone:

Let's say that Epi decided you won some contest and gave you one role check to be used tonight. Which player would you use it on and why?

The reason I ask this question is in realizing that we can only afford 2 more mislynches (3 and we lose) going forward. So I want players to actively think about not only which players seem most likely to be mafia, but also which players would be more unpredictable or dangerous to have around in LyLo.

(for those who are unaware of the terminology, LyLo = Lynch and Lose, and it indicates the lynch/Day period in which, if the civilians mislynch one of their own, they lose the game)

I think this is worth discussing.

Be back later.

Off the top of my head, probably you, LoRab or DDL. Maybe MM, too. I still don't know what to think of him.

But I imagine myself dying of a heart attack if I'd end up in a lylo, because of the tension. We definitely need to do better with lynches from now on. I'd call to focus on Moloch as well, not just say "we'll save him for last after we nail Big Figure". Missing either of them would be extremely detrimental from now on.

[Marmot]

This game doesn't have to be won in LYLO everyone. Ignore MP for a second and look at your own reads. Why not lynch the player you find most suspicious as soon as possible?

But seriously, ignore MP for second. I know he is a fan of vomitting all over the thread and taking center stage (no offense intended Sockman). But he was completely wrong about Elohcin, and I disagree with his tactic of "lynching unpredictable or dangerous players" because that in now way incriminates them, and for a baddie who has played a solid game to this point, that is a free pass to LYLO. If you suspect me for being mafia, so be it, but I expect a real case out of it.

[Cookie]

Hi guys, I'm here! I just woke up and funnily enough I was stupidly drunk last night and came onto mafia to show my cool friends and they thought I was weird LOL! I told them it was a cool game. They said it sounded dumb. I get a message from my friend this morning and they asked if they could join HAHA. I will introduce them to some newbie game at the other site I play on.

Anyway, I have about 8 pages to catch up on but I see Elo was lynched so I will keep that in mind while I am reading up. Also, I am going to try to post my top 2 suspects and reason why. It might take me a while so bare with me (I have to clean and go to a massage today so I am hoping to be done reading/responding within the next 2 hours...).

[Marmot]

Hi guys, I'm here! I just woke up and funnily enough I was stupidly drunk last night and came onto mafia to show my cool friends and they thought I was weird LOL! I told them it was a cool game. They said it sounded dumb. I get a message from my friend this morning and they asked if they could join HAHA. I will introduce them to some newbie game at the other site I play on.

Anyway, I have about 8 pages to catch up on but I see Elo was lynched so I will keep that in mind while I am reading up. Also, I am going to try to post my top 2 suspects and reason why. It might take me a while so bare with me (I have to clean and go to a massage today so I am hoping to be done reading/responding within the next 2 hours...).

You're a friend of Sloonei's? I don't recall seeing you in a RYM game.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Hi guys, I'm here! I just woke up and funnily enough I was stupidly drunk last night and came onto mafia to show my cool friends and they thought I was weird LOL! I told them it was a cool game. They said it sounded dumb. I get a message from my friend this morning and they asked if they could join HAHA. I will introduce them to some newbie game at the other site I play on.

Anyway, I have about 8 pages to catch up on but I see Elo was lynched so I will keep that in mind while I am reading up. Also, I am going to try to post my top 2 suspects and reason why. It might take me a while so bare with me (I have to clean and go to a massage today so I am hoping to be done reading/responding within the next 2 hours...).

You should take the chance to play mafia in RL with them. It's awesome.

[G-Man]

I could definitely see G-Man as Big Figure.

I'm glad you pointed out those who have not voted for a confirmed mafia because I agree that I'll be absolutely FLOORED if you, Bass, or Rico are bad.

I also agree that if mafia kills you tonight, Big Figure is a fucking pussy.

I hate mafia teams in recent games I've played. They always take the easy way out. Actually earn your win, don't chicken out by killing off someone you know you can't lynch. That's pussy play.

The only thing I am guilty of is avoiding being part of a majority vote so I can avoid the wrath of Rorschach. Half of the remaining living players are now on Rorschach's hit list though I wonder if he's still around. Unless he was blocked, I was expecting to see him kill someone Night 4. He could have been merciful but does that mean he can win with that player or will he need to circle back around and kill them later?

As for your comments on the mafia, this game is all about opportunism. Sure, we can call it cowardly or any other adjective we like but the fact is that baddies always have to be rat finks and carefully eliminate their threats. Otherwise, what's the point of playing? Be careful making bold statements like that because you'll make a hypocrite of yourself the next time you're a baddie.

[Ricochet]

Well Rorschach's list now consists of:

DDL (Golden, DH, Eloh)
Cookie (Golden, DH)
LoRab (Golden)
Scotty (Eloh)
MP (Eloh)

That's half of the remaining players at this point. He has to track on odd N AND kill on even N, which means he can only use it roughly two more times, at best, in this game. Of course, it would suck for any of his victims to turn out a civ (needing to have stayed alive, that is), but overall I'd say Rorschach is way over his head right now, rather than a ferocious shadow predator. Him not killing on N4 means for me he was either blocked or already dead.

Are you planning to keep refraining from voting on the majority train, no matter what, G-Man?

[Marmot]

I could definitely see G-Man as Big Figure.

I'm glad you pointed out those who have not voted for a confirmed mafia because I agree that I'll be absolutely FLOORED if you, Bass, or Rico are bad.

I also agree that if mafia kills you tonight, Big Figure is a fucking pussy.

I hate mafia teams in recent games I've played. They always take the easy way out. Actually earn your win, don't chicken out by killing off someone you know you can't lynch. That's pussy play.

The only thing I am guilty of is avoiding being part of a majority vote so I can avoid the wrath of Rorschach. Half of the remaining living players are now on Rorschach's hit list though I wonder if he's still around. Unless he was blocked, I was expecting to see him kill someone Night 4. He could have been merciful but does that mean he can win with that player or will he need to circle back around and kill them later?

As for your comments on the mafia, this game is all about opportunism. Sure, we can call it cowardly or any other adjective we like but the fact is that baddies always have to be rat finks and carefully eliminate their threats. Otherwise, what's the point of playing? Be careful making bold statements like that because you'll make a hypocrite of yourself the next time you're a baddie.

Llama may have been Rorschach. That explains his early attempt at baddie hunting, and the resulting success.

[Marmot]

Don't forget that Dr. Malcom Long can remove players from Rorschach's death list as well.

[Cookie]

Also LoRab made the vote that sunk Michael.

Keep that in mind...

Keeping this in mind, I think LoRab is less suspicious than I previously thought. I mean, I think everyone is suspicious.

Also LoRab made the vote that sunk Michael.

Keep that in mind...

Could LoRab have saved him, though? The only thing she could have done would be to vote Cookie, and then pray to the RNG gods, which upon a possible ika lynch would have placed a MAFIA sign above her head.

Otherwise she could be Moloch.

Or MP could be Moloch, and he is trying to stay out of trouble while he does... whatever Moloch needs to do.

Damn this Moloch roles makes it so confusing.

That's a good point. I think many people suspected Espers though, so if the tie caused me to be lynched instead, Espers would have been voted out the next night (likely) and then LoRab would have been suspicious.

I swear, after we catch Big Figure this game is gonna get insane. I think I'll have to rework all of my reads.

Have you only been hunting for Big Figure this entire time? I can understand we get out the Inmates based on voting/posting patterns, but how are we going to figure out who is Moloch?

Actually, considering the timing for the ika voting, I think Russ, Eloh, juliets and Cookie all look good here. Or at least, "not Big Figure". Could all still be Moloch.

You could argue Cookie was saving herself, but she could have saved herself by voting LoRaB. She didn't. Neither did ika, who voted Cookie.

Of course, that's assuming they would never throw each other under the bus at this situation. Though there is this:

if im baddie, i tell my teammated how i play as baddie and what they need to do. i can try my darnest for them but i always give them the abloslute of bus me to hell. i gve adive to them and tell them who they need to stratiticly kill and set up long term plans and plans to back that if it fails. in short: i do but i suck at it and are a better planner

WIFOM pls? Why did he even bother to say this? No idea.

ika was in a really bad shape at this point so a sacrifice of him, although terrible in the long run, could spell good for his partner in the long run.

So the bottomline is, the meaning of this poll depends on how willing you think Big Figure was to sacrifice his teamate.

Eloh looks particulary unlikely to be Big Figure, though, since she sacrificed both of her teamates. Could still be Moloch. Serial Killer Eloh all over again?

I voted Espers/ika because, as I said earlier in the game, I found Espers to be suspicious because of his last minute vote on Sloonei and subsequent lack of voting later on which gave us no information about his voting patterns.

That being said, I'm looking at the voting patterns on D1 and D4. I noticed that on D1 Espers voted Sloonei last, and was the 5th to vote Sloonei. Sloonei would have died without Espers' vote. Sloonei turned out to be an Inmate. Now, I'm looking at voting patterns from D4, where Lorab voted 5th on Espers. Espers would have died anyway. This could be a case of not knowing who else was going to vote and therefore, voting the most suspicious. Or a possible bus, like Espers did.

Ok, I'm not quoting all of the long posts by Elo, MP, Scotty, etc. So I will just make brief points about what I think about them:

- I agree that Elo's post about MP looked as if she was only suspecting him because he was putting heat on her.
- MP said: "Interestingly, it seems Cookie saved espers on Day 3, only to throw him under on Day 4. In my opinion, her stinky vote on Day 3 actually overrides any civilian cred gained from Day 4, so my eye is firmly on her still, even much more than I thought it would be." I did not intend to save Espers. Each person who was voted had only one vote on them. I voted DH because of what DDL said about her, which I've explained before.
- DDL, thanks for doing an ISO on MP.. That was... A lot of work, to say the least. What you say about MP suspecting people because they suspected him seems likely. However, I also posted about why he hasn't been killed yet in the NK (I'm still shocked, unless the Inmates don't feel threatened by him?), but I don't remember if that was before or after he suspected me. You also bring up a point about Espers being one of MPs most suspect players and not casting a vote for him to either a) avoid looking suspicious for bussing (if he is maf), b) avoid looking suspicious for lynching a civ, or c) genuinely thought that who he was voting for was maf. If c is the case, he hasn't voted for anyone who's been lynched. (After I typed this point, I saw other people start to bring up that everyone he's voted for is still alive).

That being said, MP does have a lot of suspicious points against him, when I looked back on DDL and Elo's reads of him. I don't know if this is just how he plays or if he is an Inmate. I honestly think he is just trying to catch the mafia. Why else would he risk being "so sure Elo is mafia" and then she turns out to be civ? That would make him look suspicious. On the other hand, he hasn't led a lynch for anyone else yet. He's brought up points against other players, but considering the one person he did try to lead a lynch on, he was certain of her being maf. I think this indicates he is civ. I just can't but push all of those theories against him in my mind, considering I wondered how he was still alive when he was so vocal and didn't lead any lynches against inmates. I also don't think that should be the reason I vote for him: because he is so vocal.

Elo and MP had some very good points against each other. I'm not sure who I would have ended up voting for if I had been here. It's hard to say without bias because I know the outcome of the lynch against Elo.

Metalmarsh, I'm pretty sure we're seeing civilian DDL. If not, Moloch at worst.

I'd bet my mafia reputation that it's Elo.

But you also have DDL in the orange/red of your RL. Why? (If you've already answered this or have changed your mind, disregard this because I'm still catching up. I'm on page 37.

I'm going to go ahead and post this and continue reading.

[G-Man]

Well Rorschach's list now consists of:

DDL (Golden, DH, Eloh)
Cookie (Golden, DH)
LoRab (Golden)
Scotty (Eloh)
MP (Eloh)

That's half of the remaining players at this point. He has to track on odd N AND kill on even N, which means he can only use it roughly two more times, at best, in this game. Of course, it would suck for any of his victims to turn out a civ (needing to have stayed alive, that is), but overall I'd say Rorschach is way over his head right now, rather than a ferocious shadow predator. Him not killing on N4 means for me he was either blocked or already dead.

Are you planning to keep refraining from voting on the majority train, no matter what, G-Man?

Even if we lynch both Big Figure and Moloch, I would think it would then come down to civs vs. Rorschach. Could the civs win if they outnumber him? I guess it's possible but that would be like telling Rorschach he doesn't have the right to earn his win.

As for refraining from voting majority, it will depend heavily upon who is on the chopping block. I've already stuck my neck out 1.5 times, so it's not out of the question.

I could definitely see G-Man as Big Figure.

I'm glad you pointed out those who have not voted for a confirmed mafia because I agree that I'll be absolutely FLOORED if you, Bass, or Rico are bad.

I also agree that if mafia kills you tonight, Big Figure is a fucking pussy.

I hate mafia teams in recent games I've played. They always take the easy way out. Actually earn your win, don't chicken out by killing off someone you know you can't lynch. That's pussy play.

The only thing I am guilty of is avoiding being part of a majority vote so I can avoid the wrath of Rorschach. Half of the remaining living players are now on Rorschach's hit list though I wonder if he's still around. Unless he was blocked, I was expecting to see him kill someone Night 4. He could have been merciful but does that mean he can win with that player or will he need to circle back around and kill them later?

As for your comments on the mafia, this game is all about opportunism. Sure, we can call it cowardly or any other adjective we like but the fact is that baddies always have to be rat finks and carefully eliminate their threats. Otherwise, what's the point of playing? Be careful making bold statements like that because you'll make a hypocrite of yourself the next time you're a baddie.

Llama may have been Rorschach. That explains his early attempt at baddie hunting, and the resulting success.

Maybe it's the detail-oriented host in me but I can't see Llama as Rorschach because Rorschach's journal was used to announce the Day 2 lynch and Night 2 NK. Llama died Night 1. I guess it's possible that Epi just has a variety of posting methods built around the game's theme but I am a Chekhov's Gun kind of guy. I think that those posts imply that Rorschach was still alive at that point.

Don't forget that Dr. Malcom Long can remove players from Rorschach's death list as well.

I had forgotten about that. Hopefully he's still plugging away at it.

[Cookie]

Hi guys, I'm here! I just woke up and funnily enough I was stupidly drunk last night and came onto mafia to show my cool friends and they thought I was weird LOL! I told them it was a cool game. They said it sounded dumb. I get a message from my friend this morning and they asked if they could join HAHA. I will introduce them to some newbie game at the other site I play on.

Anyway, I have about 8 pages to catch up on but I see Elo was lynched so I will keep that in mind while I am reading up. Also, I am going to try to post my top 2 suspects and reason why. It might take me a while so bare with me (I have to clean and go to a massage today so I am hoping to be done reading/responding within the next 2 hours...).

You're a friend of Sloonei's? I don't recall seeing you in a RYM game.

Yes, I love Sloonei. We played at a different site but he doesn't play anymore. He introduced it but he's too good for us so we kicked him out.

[Ricochet]

Well Rorschach's list now consists of:

DDL (Golden, DH, Eloh)
Cookie (Golden, DH)
LoRab (Golden)
Scotty (Eloh)
MP (Eloh)

That's half of the remaining players at this point. He has to track on odd N AND kill on even N, which means he can only use it roughly two more times, at best, in this game. Of course, it would suck for any of his victims to turn out a civ (needing to have stayed alive, that is), but overall I'd say Rorschach is way over his head right now, rather than a ferocious shadow predator. Him not killing on N4 means for me he was either blocked or already dead.

Are you planning to keep refraining from voting on the majority train, no matter what, G-Man?

Even if we lynch both Big Figure and Moloch, I would think it would then come down to civs vs. Rorschach. Could the civs win if they outnumber him? I guess it's possible but that would be like telling Rorschach he doesn't have the right to earn his win.

We don't need to go against Rorschach. We win the game as soon as Big Figure and Moloch are out of the picture (meaning we either lynch both of them or we lynch Big Figure and Moloch is already dead*). Rorschach is a civ with a ninja kill and a win grab. If the civ win con is fulfilled, but some of them have sinned in mislynches, Rorschach simply loses the game.

I'm not above fuzzy and atypical dynamics in a mafia game, but so far I see no sign that Rorschach will become a "final boss", if we get rid of Big Figure and Moloch.

*personally, if we catch Big Figure and then the game will not only not conclude, but the kill will get inherited by Moloch, I'll be assuming Moloch couldn't be night killed. Thinking back to Judge Doom in Roger Rabbit, it's a conceivable design for an Epignosis game.

[G-Man]

Rico- I see what you're saying. Rorschach's not a villain. I guess he would just walk away bitter.

[Cookie]

G-Man, thanks for those technicolors. I know I knocked them last Day period, and I still firmly believe they shouldn't be the only source of information, but they are an important one.

Cookie, you still wondering why the mafia has kept me alive this whole time? Should be evident now.
Not so much anymore. You are likely to be lynched. But given your posts, you still seem like you could be bad but I don't think you will be receiving my vote tomorrow.

Everyone, if you want to lynch me tomorrow, so be it. Going into this Day period, it seemed likely to me that I very well could get lynched anyway, and people were complaining that I couldn't commit. I felt strong about what I uncovered shortly after D5's start about Elo, so I decided to take a stand. Otherwise, it seemed as though I might have been dead meat anyway.

If you want to blame her death on me, that's fine. I realize she couldn't even defend herself. I take full responsibility for that lynch, as I stated earlier. I hate that I caused another mislynch and led to an unproductive D5 and likely an unproductive D6. I'm going to try my best to avoid the latter.In your defense, you did not realize she may have been silenced until after your vote and after you posted evidence against her.

Rico said it best earlier in D5 when he said that the lynch of Elo truly was a test of voting records v. gameplay, because Elo looked pretty good in the former (though not perfect) and terrible in the latter. I took a gamble and I was wrong. For derailing the thread and refusing to listen to counterarguments as much as I should have, I apologize.

Nonetheless, I think that any of you who want to go "BLAME MP" should take a step back and realize that every player here takes an inherent responsibility for their own vote when it is cast (or not cast, which is reprehensible).

I don't apologize for all of the baddie hunting I've done this game. I may have questioned myself too much on Sloonei and espers, and tunneled Elo, but I've done everything in my power to hunt baddies this game. Truly this is a terrible performance from me. But it doesn't make me mafia.

I realize for some (perhaps many) of you, it would take a flip of me to truly confirm that, and nothing I can say would persuade you otherwise. I can empathize.

I was actually feeling selfish earlier this morning, as if I didn't care whether town won this game if they auto-lynched me tomorrow, because it means that I won't win. I put an insane amount of time and energy into this game, and it's been very mentally and emotionally taxing. I think if you are lynched tomorrow, it will not be because you lead the vote on Elo and you turned out to be town. It will be because people have studied your posts and votes and determined you to be the most likely candidate for being bad. If we lynched everyone who led lynches against civs, then we would lose. For G-Man to declare to me that I "need to go" was very bothersome, especially when it can be argued that other players "need to go", for whatever reason. I don't think that should EVER be a reason for lynching anyone. Especially for lynching someone who's put as much effort as I have into this game. If you find my actions suspect, sure. But no one, on sheer principle, "needs to go". This isn't a criticism of you, G-Man, and I don't think that's what you intended, since you have declared my voting record as a reason for me being suspect, but I just want this said nonetheless.

Despite that, the truth is that I still want to see civilians win this game regardless. I'm going to try my best in what will probably be my last hour to make that happen.

I don't want to be lynched tomorrow. Right now, there are 10 players alive. Assuming Moloch is alive and a civilian is NKed tonight, that leaves 7-1-1 going into D6. 6-1-1 if I get lynched, then 5-1-1 going into D7. That's still not bad, but less than ideal, since you all can only afford 1 more mislynch after you'd lynch me. 2 mislynches, assuming successful NK of a civilian each Night, would make it 1-1-1, which is GAME OVER for us. Then there's the complication of the Watchmen additional win cons as well.

Think carefully about how you conduct lynches going forward, including my own, since we're running low on chances.

I've responded in pink!

[Cookie]

Hi guys, I'm here! I just woke up and funnily enough I was stupidly drunk last night and came onto mafia to show my cool friends and they thought I was weird LOL! I told them it was a cool game. They said it sounded dumb. I get a message from my friend this morning and they asked if they could join HAHA. I will introduce them to some newbie game at the other site I play on.

Anyway, I have about 8 pages to catch up on but I see Elo was lynched so I will keep that in mind while I am reading up. Also, I am going to try to post my top 2 suspects and reason why. It might take me a while so bare with me (I have to clean and go to a massage today so I am hoping to be done reading/responding within the next 2 hours...).

You should take the chance to play mafia in RL with them. It's awesome.

I worked at a summer camp last year and the kids played mafia. Except they cheated because they peeked to see who the mafia were. Every. Time.

[Cookie]

I will be back later after my massage.

[Tangrowth]

Personally, I think we should revisit this gem because part of me wants very much to believe that MP07 is trying to pull the biggest swindle I've ever seen.

TIN FOIL READ ON MOVINGPICTURES07:
D1: 11th vote overall, 2nd vote for Scotty. Talks up suspicions of his teammate early and then slowly backs it down with detailed posts on why Sloonei isn't so suspicious after all. It's subtle defense hidden behind personal observations and reasoning. In theory, he shouldn't get called out on back-tracking on Sloonei because he provided oh so much evidence to support his waning suspicions. He then latches onto Bass's suspicions of Scotty and posts a very detailed theory on why Scotty must be bad. See that? He subtly defended Slooeni while trying to stir the pot on Scotty- both times using his big-talker meta as a shield for his wicked intentions. His vote for Scotty has it 2-2 between Niju and Scotty and just one vote behind his teammate. All he needs is one or two followers to take the bait and get then he can castigate them for their votes after the fact. Too bad no one bit. Possibly silenced himself because that's what baddies do when they think they can get away with it.

D2: Misses the vote. He was silenced and couldn't vote but he wastes his silencing because he's not even on the poll so it doesn't build any sympathy for him whatsoever. Maybe he even encouraged espers to skip the vote because- hey, no Inmates on the poll so why even stick our necks out with a vote?

D3: Keeps his teammate in his top tier of suspects and waits until almost the last minute to vote. Why? To see if espers needs his help. He knows he can't vote DH without getting called on it so he votes sideways for one of his other suspects, using Cookie's rough game against her. He tries to pump up the "Cookie is bad!" wavelength something fierce but no one bites. He gets lucky because espers survived the lynch poll tie. Now he needs someone new to rail against alongside Cookie and decides now is the time to use Elo's odd play this game against her.

D4: 9th vote overall, 3rd vote on Cookie. His vote brings Cookie within 1 vote of tying espers/ika. Despite a lot of agreement that espers/ika is bad new, he caves and falls back on Cookie a second day in a row. It's designed to look consistent though because she doesn't look so great and was in MP07's suspect list already. After the flip, he goes hard at pushing his Elo case. He silences her Night 4 and stirs the pot early by voting for her amidst his verbosity. It attracts a second vote before anyone's realized that Elo has been possibly silenced.

I actually wish I was mafia right now, G-Man; if I was, I'd be more proud of my gameplay.

As it stands, I've sunk too many hours into this game, more than I should due to RL, and yet been altogether an absolute failure.

[Tangrowth]

Before I leave, I have a random question for everyone:

Let's say that Epi decided you won some contest and gave you one role check to be used tonight. Which player would you use it on and why?

The reason I ask this question is in realizing that we can only afford 2 more mislynches (3 and we lose) going forward. So I want players to actively think about not only which players seem most likely to be mafia, but also which players would be more unpredictable or dangerous to have around in LyLo.

(for those who are unaware of the terminology, LyLo = Lynch and Lose, and it indicates the lynch/Day period in which, if the civilians mislynch one of their own, they lose the game)

I think this is worth discussing.

Be back later.

Off the top of my head, probably you, LoRab or DDL. Maybe MM, too. I still don't know what to think of him.

But I imagine myself dying of a heart attack if I'd end up in a lylo, because of the tension. We definitely need to do better with lynches from now on. I'd call to focus on Moloch as well, not just say "we'll save him for last after we nail Big Figure". Missing either of them would be extremely detrimental from now on.

Agreed 100%.

What do you think of the other players at the moment? Did you pick me, LoRab, and DDL because they have the highest propensities to receive your votes going into D6 or because they have the most potential to make or break the win?

[Tangrowth]

This game doesn't have to be won in LYLO everyone. Ignore MP for a second and look at your own reads. Why not lynch the player you find most suspicious as soon as possible?

But seriously, ignore MP for second. I know he is a fan of vomitting all over the thread and taking center stage (no offense intended Sockman). But he was completely wrong about Elohcin, and I disagree with his tactic of "lynching unpredictable or dangerous players" because that in now way incriminates them, and for a baddie who has played a solid game to this point, that is a free pass to LYLO. If you suspect me for being mafia, so be it, but I expect a real case out of it.

We're clearly on different pages.

- I never said the game has to be won in LyLo. I thought we were going to win it during D5 (excluding Moloch). We still could during D6. I'd like to.

- Where did I say we shouldn't lynch the player/vote that everyone most finds suspicious?

- I never said we should lynch unpredictable or dangerous players, I specifically set up the context in a role check to have a discussion.

- Why did you preemptively defend yourself? I wasn't even really thinking of you when I asked, since at least you vote. I'm afraid of a LyLo where one of the civilians misses the vote.

[Tangrowth]

I could definitely see G-Man as Big Figure.

I'm glad you pointed out those who have not voted for a confirmed mafia because I agree that I'll be absolutely FLOORED if you, Bass, or Rico are bad.

I also agree that if mafia kills you tonight, Big Figure is a fucking pussy.

I hate mafia teams in recent games I've played. They always take the easy way out. Actually earn your win, don't chicken out by killing off someone you know you can't lynch. That's pussy play.

The only thing I am guilty of is avoiding being part of a majority vote so I can avoid the wrath of Rorschach. Half of the remaining living players are now on Rorschach's hit list though I wonder if he's still around. Unless he was blocked, I was expecting to see him kill someone Night 4. He could have been merciful but does that mean he can win with that player or will he need to circle back around and kill them later?

As for your comments on the mafia, this game is all about opportunism. Sure, we can call it cowardly or any other adjective we like but the fact is that baddies always have to be rat finks and carefully eliminate their threats. Otherwise, what's the point of playing? Be careful making bold statements like that because you'll make a hypocrite of yourself the next time you're a baddie.

I am just messing with whoever the last baddie is. :P

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

Also LoRab made the vote that sunk Michael.

Keep that in mind...

Keeping this in mind, I think LoRab is less suspicious than I previously thought. I mean, I think everyone is suspicious.

Also LoRab made the vote that sunk Michael.

Keep that in mind...

Could LoRab have saved him, though? The only thing she could have done would be to vote Cookie, and then pray to the RNG gods, which upon a possible ika lynch would have placed a MAFIA sign above her head.

Otherwise she could be Moloch.

Or MP could be Moloch, and he is trying to stay out of trouble while he does... whatever Moloch needs to do.

Damn this Moloch roles makes it so confusing.

That's a good point. I think many people suspected Espers though, so if the tie caused me to be lynched instead, Espers would have been voted out the next night (likely) and then LoRab would have been suspicious.

I swear, after we catch Big Figure this game is gonna get insane. I think I'll have to rework all of my reads.

Have you only been hunting for Big Figure this entire time? I can understand we get out the Inmates based on voting/posting patterns, but how are we going to figure out who is Moloch?

Actually, considering the timing for the ika voting, I think Russ, Eloh, juliets and Cookie all look good here. Or at least, "not Big Figure". Could all still be Moloch.

You could argue Cookie was saving herself, but she could have saved herself by voting LoRaB. She didn't. Neither did ika, who voted Cookie.

Of course, that's assuming they would never throw each other under the bus at this situation. Though there is this:

if im baddie, i tell my teammated how i play as baddie and what they need to do. i can try my darnest for them but i always give them the abloslute of bus me to hell. i gve adive to them and tell them who they need to stratiticly kill and set up long term plans and plans to back that if it fails. in short: i do but i suck at it and are a better planner

WIFOM pls? Why did he even bother to say this? No idea.

ika was in a really bad shape at this point so a sacrifice of him, although terrible in the long run, could spell good for his partner in the long run.

So the bottomline is, the meaning of this poll depends on how willing you think Big Figure was to sacrifice his teamate.

Eloh looks particulary unlikely to be Big Figure, though, since she sacrificed both of her teamates. Could still be Moloch. Serial Killer Eloh all over again?

I voted Espers/ika because, as I said earlier in the game, I found Espers to be suspicious because of his last minute vote on Sloonei and subsequent lack of voting later on which gave us no information about his voting patterns.

That being said, I'm looking at the voting patterns on D1 and D4. I noticed that on D1 Espers voted Sloonei last, and was the 5th to vote Sloonei. Sloonei would have died without Espers' vote. Sloonei turned out to be an Inmate. Now, I'm looking at voting patterns from D4, where Lorab voted 5th on Espers. Espers would have died anyway. This could be a case of not knowing who else was going to vote and therefore, voting the most suspicious. Or a possible bus, like Espers did.

Ok, I'm not quoting all of the long posts by Elo, MP, Scotty, etc. So I will just make brief points about what I think about them:

- I agree that Elo's post about MP looked as if she was only suspecting him because he was putting heat on her.
- MP said: "Interestingly, it seems Cookie saved espers on Day 3, only to throw him under on Day 4. In my opinion, her stinky vote on Day 3 actually overrides any civilian cred gained from Day 4, so my eye is firmly on her still, even much more than I thought it would be." I did not intend to save Espers. Each person who was voted had only one vote on them. I voted DH because of what DDL said about her, which I've explained before.
- DDL, thanks for doing an ISO on MP.. That was... A lot of work, to say the least. What you say about MP suspecting people because they suspected him seems likely. However, I also posted about why he hasn't been killed yet in the NK (I'm still shocked, unless the Inmates don't feel threatened by him?), but I don't remember if that was before or after he suspected me. You also bring up a point about Espers being one of MPs most suspect players and not casting a vote for him to either a) avoid looking suspicious for bussing (if he is maf), b) avoid looking suspicious for lynching a civ, or c) genuinely thought that who he was voting for was maf. If c is the case, he hasn't voted for anyone who's been lynched. (After I typed this point, I saw other people start to bring up that everyone he's voted for is still alive).

That being said, MP does have a lot of suspicious points against him, when I looked back on DDL and Elo's reads of him. I don't know if this is just how he plays or if he is an Inmate. I honestly think he is just trying to catch the mafia. Why else would he risk being "so sure Elo is mafia" and then she turns out to be civ? That would make him look suspicious. On the other hand, he hasn't led a lynch for anyone else yet. He's brought up points against other players, but considering the one person he did try to lead a lynch on, he was certain of her being maf. I think this indicates he is civ. I just can't but push all of those theories against him in my mind, considering I wondered how he was still alive when he was so vocal and didn't lead any lynches against inmates. I also don't think that should be the reason I vote for him: because he is so vocal.

Elo and MP had some very good points against each other. I'm not sure who I would have ended up voting for if I had been here. It's hard to say without bias because I know the outcome of the lynch against Elo.

Metalmarsh, I'm pretty sure we're seeing civilian DDL. If not, Moloch at worst.

I'd bet my mafia reputation that it's Elo.

But you also have DDL in the orange/red of your RL. Why? (If you've already answered this or have changed your mind, disregard this because I'm still catching up. I'm on page 37.

I'm going to go ahead and post this and continue reading.

Cookie, thanks for your thoughts here.

That's a good question re: DDL. Yesterday (D5), I was so focused on Elo being bad. Frankly, I've had this weird read of DDL all game, where I feel his actions and votes are suspicious, but my gut keeps reading him as the same civilian DDL I saw in a recent game (Economics).

I really don't know how to properly order my read of him.

Does that make sense?

[Tangrowth]

Oops, I should have spoilered all of those and put them in the same post. I'm posting in a rush, in between working on stuff.

G-Man, I have a question for you. I know you suspect me, but let's just assume I'm not the last mafia, and that I was lynched today instead of Elo. On whom would you be focusing going into D6 and why?

[Marmot]

This game doesn't have to be won in LYLO everyone. Ignore MP for a second and look at your own reads. Why not lynch the player you find most suspicious as soon as possible?

But seriously, ignore MP for second. I know he is a fan of vomitting all over the thread and taking center stage (no offense intended Sockman). But he was completely wrong about Elohcin, and I disagree with his tactic of "lynching unpredictable or dangerous players" because that in now way incriminates them, and for a baddie who has played a solid game to this point, that is a free pass to LYLO. If you suspect me for being mafia, so be it, but I expect a real case out of it.

We're clearly on different pages.

- I never said the game has to be won in LyLo. I thought we were going to win it during D5 (excluding Moloch). We still could during D6. I'd like to.

- Where did I say we shouldn't lynch the player/vote that everyone most finds suspicious?

- I never said we should lynch unpredictable or dangerous players, I specifically set up the context in a role check to have a discussion.

- Why did you preemptively defend yourself? I wasn't even really thinking of you when I asked, since at least you vote. I'm afraid of a LyLo where one of the civilians misses the vote.

You may not have been but someone else mentioned my name. I can't remember off the top of my head who did though.

[Tangrowth]

Then, regarding her espers vote on D4, she only cast it after espers's behavior was being called suspicious by the entire thread. I can pull quotes again if you want. Anyway, her vote for espers was actually the LEAST risky move that a teammate could make at that point. It would be much more risky throwing off (like G-Man did onto MM) or casting a vote on LoRab or Cookie, since she could have tied it up, saved espers again, and then once espers eventually flipped, she would have been seen as saving a teammate.

The way she cast the espers / ika vote on D4 was actually brilliant, since it's exactly the move that is currently securing her in everyone's minds right now as NOT an Inmate, but remember that espers had the most votes, tied with DH, on Day 3.

What would have been TRULY risky for her to do would have been to cast that 3rd vote for espers on D3 and sealed his fate then. If she had done that, there's no way I'd be proclaiming her as bad right now, and I'd be in total agreement with you, DDL.

But she didn't do that.

And yet, despite the "entire thread" calling espers/ike suspicious, you flinch and vote for someone else for the SECOND DAY IN A ROW!

You're angry, you're desperate, and you're flailing. You may not be either the inmate or Moloch but frankly, you're not helping and need to be eliminated from this game. I am very strongly leaning towards voting out you and your outbursts. Something feels off about you and has almost all game. I want to believe that it's just the PhD work.

Also, G-Man, I have no intention of clogging up the thread more than I have to, but I'm still curious:

What do you mean by "off" here? Just so I know?

[G-Man]

Dragon mentioned something similar at one point. There's just something about your posting that doesn't feel authentic this game. It's like you're playing to your meta. You're posting the right amount of content for civ MP07 but when I read your posts, they don't feel genuine. Case in point, your cases on Scotty and Elo were easy for me to tear apart in my mind. I don't know that I've seen that from you yet in a game. Hard to say if it is external factors affecting your game or if I've sniffed you out.

[Ricochet]

This game doesn't have to be won in LYLO everyone. Ignore MP for a second and look at your own reads. Why not lynch the player you find most suspicious as soon as possible?

But seriously, ignore MP for second. I know he is a fan of vomitting all over the thread and taking center stage (no offense intended Sockman). But he was completely wrong about Elohcin, and I disagree with his tactic of "lynching unpredictable or dangerous players" because that in now way incriminates them, and for a baddie who has played a solid game to this point, that is a free pass to LYLO. If you suspect me for being mafia, so be it, but I expect a real case out of it.

We're clearly on different pages.

- I never said the game has to be won in LyLo. I thought we were going to win it during D5 (excluding Moloch). We still could during D6. I'd like to.

- Where did I say we shouldn't lynch the player/vote that everyone most finds suspicious?

- I never said we should lynch unpredictable or dangerous players, I specifically set up the context in a role check to have a discussion.

- Why did you preemptively defend yourself? I wasn't even really thinking of you when I asked, since at least you vote. I'm afraid of a LyLo where one of the civilians misses the vote.

You may not have been but someone else mentioned my name. I can't remember off the top of my head who did though.

Yes, I did mention you.

I was more answering the question of how I'd role check, if I'd receive such a gift.

[Ricochet]

Before I leave, I have a random question for everyone:

Let's say that Epi decided you won some contest and gave you one role check to be used tonight. Which player would you use it on and why?

The reason I ask this question is in realizing that we can only afford 2 more mislynches (3 and we lose) going forward. So I want players to actively think about not only which players seem most likely to be mafia, but also which players would be more unpredictable or dangerous to have around in LyLo.

(for those who are unaware of the terminology, LyLo = Lynch and Lose, and it indicates the lynch/Day period in which, if the civilians mislynch one of their own, they lose the game)

I think this is worth discussing.

Be back later.

Off the top of my head, probably you, LoRab or DDL. Maybe MM, too. I still don't know what to think of him.

But I imagine myself dying of a heart attack if I'd end up in a lylo, because of the tension. We definitely need to do better with lynches from now on. I'd call to focus on Moloch as well, not just say "we'll save him for last after we nail Big Figure". Missing either of them would be extremely detrimental from now on.

Agreed 100%.

What do you think of the other players at the moment? Did you pick me, LoRab, and DDL because they have the highest propensities to receive your votes going into D6 or because they have the most potential to make or break the win?

Yes, I suppose I'm influenced to correlate a bit my suspicions with the players I'd be anxious to proceed into a lylo with, because of their mixed bag of gameplay. But, as I've said, the lylo scenario sounds like a dire one to me, considering how much happened already in this game, and I can't say I'll feel comfortable being in lylo with a lot of other players, either (because my paranoia and fear that the civvies in my view have been the most deceitful the whole time will probably kick in). But it's hard for me to tell what'll happen and how things we'll evolve until then.

[Tangrowth]

Dragon mentioned something similar at one point. There's just something about your posting that doesn't feel authentic this game. It's like you're playing to your meta. You're posting the right amount of content for civ MP07 but when I read your posts, they don't feel genuine. Case in point, your cases on Scotty and Elo were easy for me to tear apart in my mind. I don't know that I've seen that from you yet in a game. Hard to say if it is external factors affecting your game or if I've sniffed you out.

Huh, weird. Well, they are all completely genuine, so I'm not sure where the disconnect is happening.

I would be lying though if I said I don't have a ton that's going on in my life right now. Most of it is of a pleasant nature, of course, but this summer PhD-wise has been very draining. I've consistently been having to fight off burn out. The only reason I've even been playing mafia is to keep myself sane by having at least some social interaction (other than with Annie, of course, which already helps me significantly), as well as something recreational. I haven't been able to make time for much of anything else recreational.

[Tangrowth]

Rico, how would you have voted if you hadn't missed the D5 vote?

[Tangrowth]

Dragon mentioned something similar at one point. There's just something about your posting that doesn't feel authentic this game. It's like you're playing to your meta. You're posting the right amount of content for civ MP07 but when I read your posts, they don't feel genuine. Case in point, your cases on Scotty and Elo were easy for me to tear apart in my mind. I don't know that I've seen that from you yet in a game. Hard to say if it is external factors affecting your game or if I've sniffed you out.

Huh, weird. Well, they are all completely genuine, so I'm not sure where the disconnect is happening.

I would be lying though if I said I don't have a ton that's going on in my life right now. Most of it is of a pleasant nature, of course, but this summer PhD-wise has been very draining. I've consistently been having to fight off burn out. The only reason I've even been playing mafia is to keep myself sane by having at least some social interaction (other than with Annie, of course, which already helps me significantly), as well as something recreational. I haven't been able to make time for much of anything else recreational.

Also, you say my cases on Scotty and Elo were easy to tear apart. Does that mean you find my cases to not be genuine because you couldn't possibly understand how I was perceiving their behavior in that way?

Seems to me we've just been on totally different pages this game.

[Ricochet]

I would have used my last hour and a half to focus on you and Eloh (you two were already the main leads of the tally and I think nobody else voted after I fell asleep either!), but I feel I didn't even get to a concrete choice, given that I crashed out ahead of making a read of you (I literally finished LoRab's, after which I lay... - oh boy here it comes. layed? lied? lainethd? in bed for a sec and poof). Unfortunately, I might have very well considered voting for Eloh, I did find it a fair possibility at that stage. I'm not happy with how I exhaust myself trying to read into everything and struggling to focus when the deadline looms, that's for sure.

[Tangrowth]

G-Man, did you finish your tinfoil reads? I think those are worth more discussion. It's crucial that we don't get tunnel vision and just lynch a certain few players that have the most heat on them at the moment. That should be evident from yesterday.

[Russtifinko]

I feel awful.

Gotta admit that I was sucked into MP's argument a bit there and went down the rabbit hole.

I'm now 0/3. (Well, I still don't know if Cookie is good, but still)

My list still stands. #2 LoRab, but I think my #3 Russ is sneaking up again..

Well, I don't know how that happened. I'm an idiot!

Guess I suck at baddie hunting regardless of my methods.

Hate to say I told you so, but I fucking told you so about 15 damn times. Tunnel much?

And yes Scotty, I'd have gladly gotten in on that action. Bets 4 days.

i am very bad at mafia, and also drunk, and that was sooooo obvious

Obvious? That's an overstatement. You've been defending her all game sure, which, to be frank, mafia could be doing just as well as civ. If you were mafia, of course it would be obvious.

Her voting patterns indicate that she had some idea, but I'm still confident mafia was bussing espers Day 4. I am discounting Cookie right now since she's been away and I just don't think she had the mastermind behind it (Yes, I know Sloonei and espers are helping Big Figure from the grave).

That leaves my #2 LoRab, and #3 Russ.

Those should be lynched next, in that order.

So I'm bad because I was right about Elo, despite it being mathematically impossible I knew her alignment for a fact? Good sleuthing. *slow claps*

[Russtifinko]

I could definitely see G-Man as Big Figure.

I'm glad you pointed out those who have not voted for a confirmed mafia because I agree that I'll be absolutely FLOORED if you, Bass, or Rico are bad.

I also agree that if mafia kills you tonight, Big Figure is a fucking pussy.

I hate mafia teams in recent games I've played. They always take the easy way out. Actually earn your win, don't chicken out by killing off someone you know you can't lynch. That's pussy play.

G-Man, again, seems a little too easy. I'm less sure than on the Elo thing on him, but for God's sake keep your eyes open this time. You denied tunneling about 86 times and still tunneled yesterday.

And can we please not call people pussies? I'm not the last mafia, and I still find it kind of rude. Also killing unlynchable people is the only way a baddie can possibly win. So they literally don't have a choice but to be a pussy by your definition.

[Tangrowth]

I could definitely see G-Man as Big Figure.

I'm glad you pointed out those who have not voted for a confirmed mafia because I agree that I'll be absolutely FLOORED if you, Bass, or Rico are bad.

I also agree that if mafia kills you tonight, Big Figure is a fucking pussy.

I hate mafia teams in recent games I've played. They always take the easy way out. Actually earn your win, don't chicken out by killing off someone you know you can't lynch. That's pussy play.

G-Man, again, seems a little too easy. I'm less sure than on the Elo thing on him, but for God's sake keep your eyes open this time. You denied tunneling about 86 times and still tunneled yesterday.

And can we please not call people pussies? I'm not the last mafia, and I still find it kind of rude. Also killing unlynchable people is the only way a baddie can possibly win. So they literally don't have a choice but to be a pussy by your definition.

86? That seems oddly specific. Lol.

It was a joke, jeeze. :P

[Tangrowth]

Why does G-man seem too easy?

And, in my defense, all you or anyone could tell me in Elo's defense yesterday was "seems like Elo being Elo" and "her votes are too good".

Not only was the latter false, but you'll have to excuse me if that didn't convince me otherwise.

That said, finger pointing is the last thing we need right now. I accept full responsibility for what happened yesterday, so I think your posts would be better served by explaining why you think what you do, instead of telling me to keep my eyes open, no offense intended.

[Tangrowth]

That said, Russ, I have every intention of considering literally every player as the last mafia tomorrow. I think it's wise for us to cover every base we possibly can before coming to a decision.

[Tangrowth]

I'm seeing a whole lot of defending others from Russ this game, much more than I'm seeing him accusing others.

[Epignosis]

July 25, 1985

From the "Archie Archives"

It is now Day 6. You have 24 hours to lynch someone.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

So...

RIP nobody?

[DharmaHelper]

The sound of silence

[Cookie]

Yay? There's nothing there. YAY. We have another day to contemplate.

[Russtifinko]

Why does G-man seem too easy?

And, in my defense, all you or anyone could tell me in Elo's defense yesterday was "seems like Elo being Elo" and "her votes are too good".

Not only was the latter false, but you'll have to excuse me if that didn't convince me otherwise.

That said, finger pointing is the last thing we need right now. I accept full responsibility for what happened yesterday, so I think your posts would be better served by explaining why you think what you do, instead of telling me to keep my eyes open, no offense intended.

Again, G-Man being G-Man. And I have explained what I think, over and over. I'd have been glad to talk non-Elo people whenever, but you insisted on making the last lynch binary, so the only productive thing to do was defend Elo.

And frankly, I don't have to excuse you. You tunneled sooo hard, and now you're saying you're cool with taking responsibility for it while you take no responsibility whatsoever. You blame Elo and everyone who defended her and tell everyone to totally ignore the past 2 days and let you continue to lead lunches

Again, I have trouble believing you'd be so sloppy as a baddie. But you need to take a backseat here for a day or two and let cooler heads prevail. You're having trouble stepping back from your reads.

[Cookie]

I'm not going to do full ISO's on everyone because... ain't nobody got time fo' dat, but I am going to talk about some post with people from what I can remember. I'm sure most of these points have already been addressed, but like MP says, it's crucial we find the final mafia/muloch. I'm also only looking mostly at votes and things I remember from specific days.

MP - I just remembered he was silenced on D2. If he is the final baddie, why would he silence himself on D2? He wasn't under any heat and no one suspected him at this point. D3 and D4, he voted for me and not Espers, who he continually said looked suspicious. D5 he voted for Elo, which I agree, given the evidence against her, was a valid vote.
MetalMarsh - The only things I find strange about MM is his self-vote for D2 and then proceeded to miss the vote the next day. Did MM say why he voted for DDL on D5?
DDL - I think DDL seems civ. There's nothing he has done that speaks volumes to me like the previous two. He did vote for LoRab on D4, which tied the votes between me, Espers, and LoRab. If he was civ, it was a genuine mistake that he tied the votes by voting who he thought was mafia. If he was maf, he would be tying the votes so that Espers did not (hopefully) die. He voted for Elo on D5. If I recall correctly, wasn't DDL one of the ones who was adamant that Elo was civ?
G-Man - I've no idea what to think about him.
LoRab - The last to vote Espers the day that Espers died. Seems civ to me but could just be bussing. Didn't actually secure his death, since the person who voted for Espers before LoRab was securing Espers death unless someone else voted me or LoRab. Could have also been self-preservation, since LoRab knew he/she had suspicions against him/her.
Bass/Tiny - I've no idea what to think about them.
Ricochet - Voted Elo on D1 (or is it D0?) but did not vote Elo when MP and Scotty presented evidence (was he away somewhere?). I don't remember if he was actually online for the discussion of that.
Russtifinko - Was the first to vote for Espers/ika, however, ika was bound to be lynched either that day or the next. Although, being the first, seems civ to me.
Scotty - Seems genuinely sorry for his mistake in voting Elo. He didn't pressure anyone into voting for her, but posted his claims and left it at that. I regard this as a civ move. Nothing else about him gives me baddie vibes.

So I've no idea who I should vote for. My top suspects would be: MP, MM, and LoRab.

Sorry if I get the Day #s mixed up, I couldn't remember if it was called D0 or D1.