Watchmen [ENDGAME]

#1901

Seriously though, given his role, there is no reason for him to suspect me of being a baddie. WTF dude?

#1902

Cookie wrote:I find G-Man's vote curious, though.. Why MP?

Seriously?

#1903

G-Man wrote:Seriously though, given his role, there is no reason for him to suspect me of being a baddie. WTF dude?

Unless Joe is dead Mr. Sillypants.

#1904

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
G-Man wrote:Seriously though, given his role, there is no reason for him to suspect me of being a baddie. WTF dude?
Unless Joe is dead Mr. Sillypants.

Wait it's 4am and I don't get what either of you are saying.

#1905

I said not to do one thing.

#1906

Ricochet wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
G-Man wrote:Seriously though, given his role, there is no reason for him to suspect me of being a baddie. WTF dude?
Unless Joe is dead Mr. Sillypants.
Wait it's 4am and I don't get what either of you are saying.

MP was the tracker Steven Fine. When he tracks someone, Joe gets the results. If Joe is dead, MP's role is worthless, right?

#1907

Whats gonna happen

#1908

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
G-Man wrote:Seriously though, given his role, there is no reason for him to suspect me of being a baddie. WTF dude?
Unless Joe is dead Mr. Sillypants.
Wait it's 4am and I don't get what either of you are saying.
MP was the tracker Steven Fine. When he tracks someone, Joe gets the results. If Joe is dead, MP's role is worthless, right?

Bullshit.

Epignosis wrote: Detective Steven Fine
Tracks on Odd Nights. Bourquin gets the result too.

Detective Joe Bourquin
Tracks on Even Nights. Fine gets the result too.

#1909

DharmaHelper wrote:Whats gonna happen

You're dead you deadie-deader-mcdeaderson.

What's gonna happen is you're gonna stay dead for a million years.

#1910

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
G-Man wrote:Seriously though, given his role, there is no reason for him to suspect me of being a baddie. WTF dude?
Unless Joe is dead Mr. Sillypants.
Wait it's 4am and I don't get what either of you are saying.
MP was the tracker Steven Fine. When he tracks someone, Joe gets the results. If Joe is dead, MP's role is worthless, right?

Why? Couldn't he still hint in the thread his findings?

#1911

G-Man wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
G-Man wrote:Seriously though, given his role, there is no reason for him to suspect me of being a baddie. WTF dude?
Unless Joe is dead Mr. Sillypants.
Wait it's 4am and I don't get what either of you are saying.
MP was the tracker Steven Fine. When he tracks someone, Joe gets the results. If Joe is dead, MP's role is worthless, right?
Bullshit.

Epignosis wrote: Detective Steven Fine
Tracks on Odd Nights. Bourquin gets the result too.

Detective Joe Bourquin
Tracks on Even Nights. Fine gets the result too.

Perhaps a clarification is in order?

#1912

Most disappointing and frustrating death of all time. Thanks guys.

#1913

You know what's hilarious?

GOOF-MAN IS NOW ON RORSCHACH'S LIST

#1914

This development also baffles me due to the way he went after Elo. What kind of evidence does "tracker" dig up? When I've called a role a tracker, it meant that role could see if someone used a power on anyone else.

#1915

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Most disappointing and frustrating death of all time. Thanks guys.

I'm in tears, bro.

#1916

Oh ffs

Someone find a wall I can bang my head into.

I'm deeply sorrry MP. I guess I just tunneled hard on you and did not want to step back.

#1917

G-Man wrote:Seriously though, given his role, there is no reason for him to suspect me of being a baddie. WTF dude?

That makes no sense.

1- You are assuming the detectives bothered to track you.
2- That the other detective is alive, or was alive long enough to track you.
3- That a negative result on a track targeted at you would be a proof that you are a civ. It's not, because for most of this game there were two possible mafia killers.

#1918

G-Man wrote:This development also baffles me due to the way he went after Elo. What kind of evidence does "tracker" dig up? When I've called a role a tracker, it meant that role could see if someone used a power on anyone else.

The only tracker I've seen is where you follow a player, and find out who they visit, but not a power they use.

But MP went after Elohcin Day 5, so if he learned anything it would have been from Night 3, or Night 1.

#1919

Ricochet wrote:You know what's hilarious?

GOOF-MAN IS NOW ON RORSCHACH'S LIST

The good news is he can't kill me until Night 8.

#1920

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Oh ffs

Someone find a wall I can bang my head into.

I'm deeply sorrry MP. I guess I just tunneled hard on you and did not want to step back.

Can we...can we get a revote?

I thought maybe Mp could have been Morlock, but definitely not mafia.

In re: of his role, I don't know what use his role is, especially if his partner is dead. Slash I don't think I'm familiar with what tracking does. Is that like a role checker?

@epi Does he get the results or is it just his partner?

#1921

G-Man wrote:This development also baffles me due to the way he went after Elo. What kind of evidence does "tracker" dig up? When I've called a role a tracker, it meant that role could see if someone used a power on anyone else.

Oh, I know exactly how you're feeling right now.

#1922

Please read the roles. The word "too" has a function.

#1923

Epignosis wrote:Please read the roles. The word "too" has a function.

Ok gotcha.

Sorry to see you go, MP! I had fun playing with you!

#1924

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
G-Man wrote:Seriously though, given his role, there is no reason for him to suspect me of being a baddie. WTF dude?
That makes no sense.

1- You are assuming the detectives bothered to track you.
2- That the other detective is alive, or was alive long enough to track you.
3- That a negative result on a track targeted at you would be a proof that you are a civ. It's not, because for most of this game there were two possible mafia killers.

Maybe I was just never close enough to the top of his list to warrant a check. He sure seemed to mention me quite a bit.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
G-Man wrote:This development also baffles me due to the way he went after Elo. What kind of evidence does "tracker" dig up? When I've called a role a tracker, it meant that role could see if someone used a power on anyone else.
The only tracker I've seen is where you follow a player, and find out who they visit, but not a power they use.

But MP went after Elohcin Day 5, so if he learned anything it would have been from Night 3, or Night 1.

Interesting. I know Watchers get vague info on who visits the target but not specific powers used. Trackers were always a higher degree of specificity. That's how I used them in games at least.

Also, had he flipped Big Figure, I had this waiting in the wings:

Pride cometh before a reat fall.

#1925

With reat power comes reat responsibility.

#1926

Cookie wrote:Crap. I was so sure he was an Inmate. RIP and sorry.

Why did you vote for LoRab then if you were so sure?

HMMMMMMMMM?

#1927

I'm now firmly in the camp that GMan is either Rorschach or Morlock. I'm leaning towards the latter.

I looked up tracking and it does not learn the role of the target, but what they do. I was sorely confused on that point.
So I'm curious if and when MP tracked Ehlo that would give him info that led to her demise? Maybe she did something that night to the target that died? That would make sense, right? So maybe she sent back her info to Bernard and Bernard died that night? I don't remember seeing Bernard post recently, so that would make sense for MP to tunnel.

#1928

G-Man wrote: Interesting. I know Watchers get vague info on who visits the target but not specific powers used. Trackers were always a higher degree of specificity. That's how I used them in games at least.

From what I know, watchers find out who used on ability on X. Trackers find out who X used an ability on. With X being the person the tracker/watcher chose to target in the night. They may or may not also find the nature of the ability, depending on the setup, but usually they don't.

#1929

Here are the updated technicolors. I'll probably take most of tomorrow off since I doubt Big Figure is cocky enough to kill me tonight.

Day 1

Spoiler: show

Day 2

Spoiler: show

Day 3

Spoiler: show

Day 4

Spoiler: show

Day 5

Spoiler: show

Day 6

Spoiler: show

#1930

Scotty wrote:I'm now firmly in the camp that GMan is either Rorschach or Morlock. I'm leaning towards the latter.

I looked up tracking and it does not learn the role of the target, but what they do. I was sorely confused on that point.
So I'm curious if and when MP tracked Ehlo that would give him info that led to her demise? Maybe she did something that night to the target that died? That would make sense, right? So maybe she sent back her info to Bernard and Bernard died that night? I don't remember seeing Bernard post recently, so that would make sense for MP to tunnel.

MP tracked on Nights 1 & 3, and Eloh could only target Bernard the News Vendor with her role, but Bernard the News Vendor was still live on Night 4.

I guess MP could have learned something on Night 4 from his compatriot (if he is still alive), if Elohcin made her nightly visit?

I'm actually leaning towards MP just making a real in-thread case, and no information backed it up.

#1931

Scotty wrote:
Cookie wrote:Crap. I was so sure he was an Inmate. RIP and sorry.
Why did you vote for LoRab then if you were so sure?

HMMMMMMMMM?

I explained that when I voted LoRab. I didn't want to lynch someone who couldn't talk and the alternative was to lynch someone else I thought (and still think) is an Inmate.

#1932

@MM: But what if MP knew Bernard's role from another source? For instance, a BTSC with Silk Spectre, or a message from Ozymandias (since apparently Ozy is sending messages).

That would also mean Bernard is Juliets, since MP's tunneling on Eloh only really started on D5 I think.

#1933

Scotty wrote:I'm now firmly in the camp that GMan is either Rorschach or Morlock. I'm leaning towards the latter.

I looked up tracking and it does not learn the role of the target, but what they do. I was sorely confused on that point.
So I'm curious if and when MP tracked Ehlo that would give him info that led to her demise? Maybe she did something that night to the target that died? That would make sense, right? So maybe she sent back her info to Bernard and Bernard died that night? I don't remember seeing Bernard post recently, so that would make sense for MP to tunnel.

Sorry Scotty, I'm used to the first variation on the tracker. The vanilla tracker approach is you get a yes or no answer on whether they used a power on another player (in general). I think that original iteration of tracking was too vanilla for the folks at LP, STV, TP, and RM. I could be wrong here because each host is different. But that is how I've always encountered and used a tracker.

#1934

I dunno if we should be dwelling too much on vote patterns at this point. With only one inmate left, they have no one to protect but him/herself.

Linki @DDL: I'm not sure how that would help us out? If MP knew Bernard's role and tracked Elohcin to visit Bernard, wouldn't he consider the possibilities of who could have visited Bernard? Maybe he just tunneled, but he did bet his mafia reputation on it (whatever that means).

#1935

Correction, current and future vote patterns. Past vote patterns will surely be more helpful to those who know how to read them.

#1936

Cookie wrote:
Scotty wrote:
Cookie wrote:Crap. I was so sure he was an Inmate. RIP and sorry.
Why did you vote for LoRab then if you were so sure?

HMMMMMMMMM?
I explained that when I voted LoRab. I didn't want to lynch someone who couldn't talk and the alternative was to lynch someone else I thought (and still think) is an Inmate.

Ah I see I missed that post. You are correct, you did say that, my bad.
If you are sure that someone is bad, then why not commit to your read, regardless of a silent treatment?

im still on phone right now, but going back a few pages on the info received from [what I presume to be] Ozymandias. I don't know the source material at all. Why is Ozymandias' info not to be trusted if he's a watchman? What does he do in the movie/comic?

linki- thanks GMan

#1937

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I dunno if we should be dwelling too much on vote patterns at this point. With only one inmate left, they have no one to protect but him/herself.

Linki @DDL: I'm not sure how that would help us out? If MP knew Bernard's role and tracked Elohcin to visit Bernard, wouldn't he consider the possibilities of who could have visited Bernard? Maybe he just tunneled, but he did bet his mafia reputation on it (whatever that means).

I don't see how it helps us either, but there's nothing bad about speculating.

Actually, the fact MP bet his reputation would make more sense if he had night info and thought the probability of that info being wrong was too low (and in this case it probably was).

#1938

Scotty wrote:
Cookie wrote:
Scotty wrote:
Cookie wrote:Crap. I was so sure he was an Inmate. RIP and sorry.
Why did you vote for LoRab then if you were so sure?

HMMMMMMMMM?
I explained that when I voted LoRab. I didn't want to lynch someone who couldn't talk and the alternative was to lynch someone else I thought (and still think) is an Inmate.
Ah I see I missed that post. You are correct, you did say that, my bad.
If you are sure that someone is bad, then why not commit to your read, regardless of a silent treatment?

im still on phone right now, but going back a few pages on the info received from [what I presume to be] Ozymandias. I don't know the source material at all. Why is Ozymandias' info not to be trusted if he's a watchman? What does he do in the movie/comic?

linki- thanks GMan

Spoilers below:

Spoiler: show

So for this game, I'd expect him to be a player who, while still on our side, would not mind getting any of us killed in order to accomplish his wincon, and has a good chance of having a goal that involves killing civs, just like Rorscrach (though Rorscrach and Ozy do it for different reasons).

#1939

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:I dunno if we should be dwelling too much on vote patterns at this point. With only one inmate left, they have no one to protect but him/herself.

Linki @DDL: I'm not sure how that would help us out? If MP knew Bernard's role and tracked Elohcin to visit Bernard, wouldn't he consider the possibilities of who could have visited Bernard? Maybe he just tunneled, but he did bet his mafia reputation on it (whatever that means).
I don't see how it helps us either, but there's nothing bad about speculating.

Actually, the fact MP bet his reputation would make more sense if he had night info and thought the probability of that info being wrong was too low (and in this case it probably was).

I think MP07 just said he'd bet his reputation on Eloh being bad to be dramatic. It's probably not the first time he's said it but it might be the last. I just happened to be in a snarky enough mood to call him out on it because my spreadsheet suggested otherwise by a long shot. Depending on the type of tracker Epi used, it's possible he tracked Eloh and misinterpreted the result. As a tracker though, you have to be aware of the other roles that might lead you to such a misinterpretation. I think he let thread content and player reads/vibes get in the way of his understanding of the role mechanics.

#1940

Epignosis wrote:

Did we never figure out what this was? Silk Spectre's apartment? It was used in the lynch of espers, but leading up to it...wth? Why Silk Spectre's apartment, if that's what it was?

@DDL that character sounds terrible. Like a villain, even. hmm.

Do we think there are only 2 silencers in this game? Does anyone think Dr. Manhattan or Ozy could silence as well?

#1941

@Scotty

Comic spoilers:

Spoiler: show

#1942

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:@Scotty

Comic spoilers:

Spoiler: show
He is the main villain of the story. Moloch is a character of little importance that is actually manipulated by Ozy, and the Inmates are a group of random criminals who only exist to be murdered by Rorscrach.

Which makes me wonder why Epi didn't make Ozy mafia instead.

Hmmm. indeed.

GMan, any luck on your cipher?

#1943

Disappointing result. My being lynched would have been equally disappinting. Not sure a lynch of cookie would have been bad, having voted that way and all.

Thoughs haven't changed since I went to sleep. Hope to survive the night.

#1944

LoRab wrote:Disappointing result. My being lynched would have been equally disappinting. Not sure a lynch of cookie would have been bad, having voted that way and all.

Thoughs haven't changed since I went to sleep. Hope to survive the night.

You're golden, I think I'm on the chopping block unfortunately.

Shame, because I feel like we really could have eliminated that problem.

#1945

Scotty wrote:
LoRab wrote:Disappointing result. My being lynched would have been equally disappinting. Not sure a lynch of cookie would have been bad, having voted that way and all.

Thoughs haven't changed since I went to sleep. Hope to survive the night.
You're golden, I think I'm on the chopping block unfortunately.

Shame, because I feel like we really could have eliminated that problem.

So who do you see me is being elimininaed from that problem?

#1946

LoRab wrote:
Scotty wrote:
LoRab wrote:Disappointing result. My being lynched would have been equally disappinting. Not sure a lynch of cookie would have been bad, having voted that way and all.

Thoughs haven't changed since I went to sleep. Hope to survive the night.
You're golden, I think I'm on the chopping block unfortunately.

Shame, because I feel like we really could have eliminated that problem.
So who do you see me is being elimininaed from that problem?

That sentence doesn't make sense.
But I'm talking about cookie

#1947

Scotty wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:@Scotty

Comic spoilers:

Spoiler: show
He is the main villain of the story. Moloch is a character of little importance that is actually manipulated by Ozy, and the Inmates are a group of random criminals who only exist to be murdered by Rorscrach.

Which makes me wonder why Epi didn't make Ozy mafia instead.
Hmmm. indeed.

GMan, any luck on your cipher?

Sadly no. I'm probably not allowed to talk about the specifics of it. I think I know (generally speaking) how I'm supposed to crack it but when I try to decode it the way I think I'm supposed to, it's just more gibberish. If I was good at deciphering codes, I'd probably be more frustrated. I'm more of a logic puzzle person, so I'm not sweating the fact that I can't figure it out.

Scotty wrote:
LoRab wrote:Disappointing result. My being lynched would have been equally disappinting. Not sure a lynch of cookie would have been bad, having voted that way and all.

Thoughs haven't changed since I went to sleep. Hope to survive the night.
You're golden, I think I'm on the chopping block unfortunately.

Shame, because I feel like we really could have eliminated that problem.

Scotty- do you think you're likely to get killed tonight or lynched tomorrow? I personally see no reason for you to be lynched, so I'm assuming you think Big Figure will come after you.

What I find interesting is that you got on board with MP07's theories after you were rezzed even though he went after you Day 1 for what I though was a very unsound case. Not saying it's suspicious though. I'm just dying to know why you got on board with him after he tried to railroad you.

#1948

RIP MP

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:@MM: But what if MP knew Bernard's role from another source? For instance, a BTSC with Silk Spectre, or a message from Ozymandias (since apparently Ozy is sending messages).

That would also mean Bernard is Juliets, since MP's tunneling on Eloh only really started on D5 I think.

DDL, this seems far-fetched to me. It's purporting that things happened that we don't even know CAN happen. And as I reminded Scotty before, Ozymandias likely doesn't have any more info than we do.

G-Man wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:I dunno if we should be dwelling too much on vote patterns at this point. With only one inmate left, they have no one to protect but him/herself.

Linki @DDL: I'm not sure how that would help us out? If MP knew Bernard's role and tracked Elohcin to visit Bernard, wouldn't he consider the possibilities of who could have visited Bernard? Maybe he just tunneled, but he did bet his mafia reputation on it (whatever that means).
I don't see how it helps us either, but there's nothing bad about speculating.

Actually, the fact MP bet his reputation would make more sense if he had night info and thought the probability of that info being wrong was too low (and in this case it probably was).
I think MP07 just said he'd bet his reputation on Eloh being bad to be dramatic. It's probably not the first time he's said it but it might be the last. I just happened to be in a snarky enough mood to call him out on it because my spreadsheet suggested otherwise by a long shot. Depending on the type of tracker Epi used, it's possible he tracked Eloh and misinterpreted the result. As a tracker though, you have to be aware of the other roles that might lead you to such a misinterpretation. I think he let thread content and player reads/vibes get in the way of his understanding of the role mechanics.

Your spreadsheet seems pretty good. What else does it say?

Scotty, I'm an Occam's Razor kinda guy, generally speaking. I figure why should there be 3 silencers if that's not in the roles and we've seen no evidence of it so far.

#1949

G-Man wrote:
Scotty wrote:
LoRab wrote:Disappointing result. My being lynched would have been equally disappinting. Not sure a lynch of cookie would have been bad, having voted that way and all.

Thoughs haven't changed since I went to sleep. Hope to survive the night.
You're golden, I think I'm on the chopping block unfortunately.

Shame, because I feel like we really could have eliminated that problem.
Scotty- do you think you're likely to get killed tonight or lynched tomorrow? I personally see no reason for you to be lynched, so I'm assuming you think Big Figure will come after you.

What I find interesting is that you got on board with MP07's theories after you were rezzed even though he went after you Day 1 for what I though was a very unsound case. Not saying it's suspicious though. I'm just dying to know why you got on board with him after he tried to railroad you.

You see no reason? I do. I've been rezzed, and no one has really looked into my case. Except maybe Rico and a bit of Russ (who just says he patently disagrees with me). I was wondering why no one killing MP until you realized he was making bad reads all game.

There may be a chance I am wrong about my newest reads, but my reads become more poignant as the game goes on. More votes to look at, and like you, GMan, I enjoy logic puzzles. This game is like a logic puzzle mixed with hide and seek.

I've been operating under the assumption that I was going to be NK'd since I was rezzed, and now I'm just acting on spare time. All of this is a gift that I've even been here this long, so thank you powers that be.

As for "getting on board with MP's theories", didn't you see that I've been buddying up with him since Day 0? /s

He did get on me for a pretty weird reason at Day 0, and then I died. I wasn't really convinced he was civ until about Day 5. I didn't trust him a lick when he kept posting his rainbow reads, waiting to vote until the very end, and not voting for the lowest common denominator at the last second, which seemed fishy as tuna.
Tunneling on Ehlo seemed to me either a VERY civ move or a VERY sloppy mafia move, and I chose the former. Like come on, MP isn't new to mafia. His moves seems suspicious, but TOO suspicious. I'd be looking at someone trying to fit in, or at least not raising any red flags. Those are the dangerous ones.

I also had a read on Elo. I became convinced that one of the espers voters in Day 5 were bad. I limited it to Elo or LoRab for a time, and Elo's post at the end of the night before she was silenced was just icing on the cake for me. My gut read on MP at that point was warm-blooded civ and the thought of people accusing MP of being mafia was ludicrous.

I know now how Russ felt when we tunneled into Elo, whom he defended for whatever reason.

#1950

At the same time I think mafia would be cowardly to kill me tonight.

Who would you kill tonight if you were mafia, GMan?

Rhetorical, of course.

Full Games	Civilian: Mafia: Independent:
Speed Games	Civilian: Fiddler on the Roof Mafia:
Heists	Civilian: MVP: RED vs BLUE
Burglaries	Independent: The Theme Is Literally a Burglary
Special Games	Civilian: Independent:

Full Games	Civilian: Mafia: Independent:
Speed Games	Civilian: Fiddler on the Roof Mafia:
Heists	Civilian: MVP: RED vs BLUE
Burglaries	Independent: The Theme Is Literally a Burglary
Special Games	Civilian: Independent:

Full Games	Civilian: Mafia: Independent:
Speed Games	Civilian: Fiddler on the Roof Mafia:
Heists	Civilian: MVP: RED vs BLUE
Burglaries	Independent: The Theme Is Literally a Burglary
Special Games	Civilian: Independent:

Full Games	Civilian: Mafia: Independent:
Speed Games	Civilian: Fiddler on the Roof Mafia:
Heists	Civilian: MVP: RED vs BLUE
Burglaries	Independent: The Theme Is Literally a Burglary
Special Games	Civilian: Independent:

Full Games	Civilian: Mafia: Independent:
Speed Games	Civilian: Fiddler on the Roof Mafia:
Heists	Civilian: MVP: RED vs BLUE
Burglaries	Independent: The Theme Is Literally a Burglary
Special Games	Civilian: Independent:

2014 Sockys
2015 Sockys
Miscellaneous

2014 Sockys
2015 Sockys
Miscellaneous

2014 Sockys
2015 Sockys
Miscellaneous

2014 Sockys
2015 Sockys
Miscellaneous

Who deserves justice?