Watchmen [ENDGAME]

[Ricochet]

Wait, wait, wait. DH's first bet on DDL was specifically Moloch. It was only later, on a second post, that he said Moloch or Watchmen. And what I was pointing to, in my ISO, was the first post, yet DDL has now referenced the second. Is DDL trying to sugar coat it?

[Cookie]

Ohh thanks Russ!!

I thought it was LoGan. I previously didn't really find Gman suspicious... Well, I will take a closer look later today and try to think of some new reads that don't parrot others (seriously, I've no idea how you guys come up with so many theories with different angels... This will be challenging). Later!!

[Cookie]

LoRab*
and seriously... Angles* not angels

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Wait, wait, wait. DH's first bet on DDL was specifically Moloch. It was only later, on a second post, that he said Moloch or Watchmen. And what I was pointing to, in my ISO, was the first post, yet DDL has now referenced the second. Is DDL trying to sugar coat it?

Why don't you quote the specifc posts you want me to talk about, instead of just mentioning them and then complaining that I didn't talk about the right ones?

I mean, this game has over 2000 posts ffs. It's not easy to remember everything that happened on it.

Anyway, I'm looking at DH's posts and will try to make sense of them.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Anyway, those are the posts:

DDL Thoughts:


Starts "joking" about lynching Golden
Jumps on MP for going "Mama Bear"
In answering MP's survey, notes that he thinks most of the Golden/G-Man thing is a joke and MP is overreacting
In fact, his defense for Most of Day 0 is "Lol JK"
Adament that his stance on "policy lynching"/BS votes will not extend to D2

Votes for Sloonei (Hadn't brought him up before), 3rd vote for Sloonei putting him ahead of Niju


"Parrots" llamas suspects (espers, Golden)
Reminder: Up until then his Golden suspicion had been a joke
Explaination of his Golden suspicion makes sense
Thoughts on espers make sense. (Espers dumped a vote on Sloonei late, was defensive of him earlier, dumped a suspect in favor of a Sloonei vote that did nothing)

Votes Golden because the other 3 are not suspicious to him
Blames the shortened poll for the mislynch


Names Me, Espers, G-Man, Cookie and MM as suspect for various reasons


Conclusions:

I find it Ironic that DDL spent so much time "joking" about lynching Golden only to wind up doing it when given an easy excuse (the shortened Day 2 poll and Golden's vote). DDL claimed to have read the other 3 suspects, but I'm not sure if I believe him. Given his thoughts on Me, MM, espers, and Cookie in particular (which you can find here: http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 72#p159172 ) I think it's strange that he suspects all of those people for inactivity/blending in and had nothing to say regarding Long Con.

He can say he did the legwork for the other suspects all he wants, but he produced none of it, so I am forced to assume he didn't do anything apart from wait until he could lynch Golden.

My money has DDL as Moloch.

DDL is either Moloch or a Watchman. Either way I would let him alone till endgame.

I'm not the authority on "why DH thought X player was Y role". The only thing I can do is read his posts and try to infer it.

I'd say he didn't like my Day 1/2 votes and how I explained them, and deduced I was bad. But that I wasn't an inmate because of my Sloonei vote. Later, he changed his mind a little and began to consider the possibility that I could also be a Watchman, because the Watchmen also have selfish intentions which he believed could be my case.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

And I spent day 2 arguing with DH about his points against me. Anybody saying I ignored DH should go back to my day 2 posts and look at them.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

^ Actually Day 3, not Day 2.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Btw Rico, I did not look at your ISO now to see what post you were referring to. I looked at DH's ISO. If you were still referring to a different one, then stop complaining and just quote it here.

[Ricochet]

Anyway, couple more things to say:

Despite the second consecutive Night without a death (hooray for no death!), I'm not sure how much I can get on board with the theory that TB's inactivity and absent-mindedness would be indicative of her being BF. Sure, she's eligible, if the kill PMs have to be sent in person - I mean, I assume they have to, given that specific killers have been designated; plus, wouldn't the teammates tap their colleague on the shoulder, if he would be snoozing on the job? - but I'd near to hear more on what does it feel like it's so plausibile. Right now, I'm also dreading that going with a TB/Made lynch would be absolutely the easiest mislynch to frame. It doesn't make me feel better that LoRab is the one insisting on this detail, either.

I remember some folks wondering in the past if BF can both silence and kill, also if BF inherited on Lawrence's kill and its timing or can kill nightly nevertheless. Is it still worth asking the Host about it, perhaps?

But yeah, I mostly think both Nights were bounced NKs, either by protection or kill survival. If there's also a civ blocker we have no public info on, he wouldn't have been allowed to target the same person on consecutive Nights, so it's less likely (or it's a combination of this and the things mentioned before). Shall we assume that every role with a secret (Dr. M, Ozy, Moloch) might be bulletproof, at least once?

Also, LoRab probably didn't pay much attention to this, but all of Bernard's messages were presented according to the theme on the Day/Night post, from being recorded in a video (during Ozy's cycle) to taking the shape of an investigative report or something (?) (during Comedian's cycle), a note or letter (during Silk Spectre's) and finally the Manhattan broadcast just now. So yeah, it's from Bernard, alright.

I received something last Night, I assume of the same kind Eloh, Scotty and G-Man got. My message looks coded as well, along with an equation that probably provides the cipher, but I think that's all I can say about it. Who are we suspecting for this? Manhattan, Ozy, Moloch? Good game, dude, you sure picked the right guy to do freaking math. What is this, anyway, Zodiac Mafia?

I'm hearing both what Russ is saying about G-Man's vote being highly motivated and aware of the situation, as well as G-Man saying he acted on the impulse that he still heavily suspected MP's game was off and he was bad. I guess I'll go check back if he was also right on not having grounds to suspect Cookie or LoRab and push either of them ahead.

Cookie's vote gives me such a weird vibe of stepping back from MP. Her not-voting-the-silenced principle is yet another example of culture clash, because while that is also cause for concern and debate among us locals, it's still a bit late in the game to abide by such principles. Her LoRab vote was consistent with a suspicion on her - but idk it could such a lucky escape pod for a baddie, as well.

Back after studying.

linki@DDL: Sure. This first post and this second post. And my post in which I'm thinking about the first of those posts being a planted read on you.

linki: Read my read on that read, then. My problem wasn't with you not challenging DH's opinions on you - which would be untrue, because you did. My problem was not challenging DH's read of you as Moloch, compared to all the other things that visibly displeased you.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Alright, then.

Like you said yourself, DH didn't give an specific reason to think I was Moloch (correct me if I'm wrong). He gave me reasons to think I was bad. I argued against those. The bet that I was Moloch didn't have any explanations so I didn't feel like specifically arguing against it, only against the points he actually made. The idea what he simply excluded the possibility of me being an inmate made enough sense to me.

I don't know if he had any info on me. It could be that he had some incomplete info that let him infer me as a more likely Moloch candidate. Either way, it's pretty evident he did not have 100% read on me, otherwise he wouldn't bother to say I could also be a Watchman.

And in case you're suspecting this post, no, I'm not Moloch, I'm just speculating on why DH would think that.

[G-Man]

Day 6

DAY 6 RESULTS:

1. MOVINGPICTURES07 (Dragon)
2. COOKIE (Scotty)
3. COOKIE (LoRab)
4. DRAGON (Ricochet)
5. LORAB (Russtifinko)
6. LORAB (Cookie)
7. MOVINGPICTURES07 (G-Man)

Not Voting: MM89 (2),MP07 (2), Tiny Bubbles (4)


ALTERNATE FORMAT:

1. MOVINGPICTURES07 (Dragon)
7. MOVINGPICTURES07 (G-Man)


2. COOKIE (Scotty)
3. COOKIE (LoRab)


5. LORAB (Russtifinko)
6. LORAB (Cookie)


4. DRAGON (Ricochet)


Not Voting:
MM89 (2)
MP07 (2)<---Player = CIVILIAN
Tiny Bubbles (4)

VOTE #1: Dragon

Spoiler: show

His first mention of possibly voting for MP07:

Uh, no, not your vanishing as a player, your case's vanishing. (Again, just like LoRab, I don't criticize players for "vanishing".) It felt to me like as soon as MP pointed out some inaccuracies about your ISO and you agreed it invalidates a few stuff and said you'll recheck it, it ended up nowhere. You simply said it didn't invalidate the rest of your case and you're keeping him in check. To which my question, if you've called him Mafia a Day before and made ISO hardly invalidating this conclusion, why the downgrade to "still a suspect"?

You make some fair points about having referenced Eloh as potential Moloch but not Big Figure, so I'll look back over your posts, although I'd still say your vote post and reasoning was based on her actually being Big Figure and bussing both her teammates. I didn't get the "maybe Elo is Moloch and I'm fine with that too" impression from that particular post, only from your explanations right now, which is of course a bit in retrospect.

I've been consistently suspecting MP since I made the first ISO on him, if that's what you wanna know. I took a detour on day 5, but I'm probably voting him today.

"Still a suspect" is not a downgrade. Nobody can get more suspicious than that. Because I can't know for sure anyone is mafia, so the best I can do is call them suspects.

The Eloh case was pretty sloppy, though I believe you should look at my dialogue with MP and Scotty about it if you want to understand what I was thinking.

Here he posts justification for his Day 5 vote for Elo.

@Rico

I'll try to explain better.

I was and I still am interested at hunting BF more than Moloch. I had the opinion that Eloh looked pretty suspicious, but her vote history screamed "not BF". Then D5 happened, mp and Scotty came in with very early votes on Eloh. They gave me a feeling they were seeing more into it than I was seeing myself. I talked to them and wanted to know why, and I wanted to believe them, but the fact they were calling her Big Figure instead of Moloch didn't convince me.

So I kept reading their posts until they both said something that I believe could be a reasonable explanation for the bussing (the theory that Eloh bussed her teammates because the flow of the game pointed to they being lynched). I let my confirmation bias do the rest and bought the theory that Eloh was Big Figure.

Yes, I know the whole thing is fishy and a huge departure to how I approached the game until Day 4. I thought I had spotted something meaningful, but I hadn't, and I dropped the way I had been playing the game up to that point because of it. You can believe me or not if you want.

Final reasoning for an MP07 vote:

Anyway, I'm leaving in a while so let's wrap this up.

I'm voting MP today. I recognize his baddie play in this game was somewhat sloppy, but I don't think it was THAT sloppy. Truth be told, a baddie cannot make a completely flawless game unless they outright bus their teammates from the start, and as much as MP has tried to convince me that he is normally the master baddie that busses everyone, I don't see much room for that in this game. If he is a baddie, he is actually playing a pretty good game. He's not avoiding suspicions, but he is managing to cover every suspicion with WIFOM and keep people guessing. He changes his style when people question it, and then is able to WIFOM it out if people question that too. He seems eager to please others while still having the leadership over the civilians. He is playing very well to his meta while finding a way of making it fail when he needs to.

There is just way too much evidence, everywhere, for me to drop this. I've explained it over countless posts in this game, so I'm not elaborate it all over again. But I think at this point I have to admit enough is enough and put my vote where my suspicion is.

votes MP

Sorry my friend, but it's time for you to go. If you are a civ, I sincerely apologize for all the unfair bullying I gave you in this game. If you are a baddie, it was a pleasure playing mafia against you.

VOTE #2: Scotty

Spoiler: show

Mentions Cookie near the end...

Still on my phone, God help me.

Well looks like I don't have to rage quit. I'll revisit my last post tomorrow, as I've been in a pissy mood since this morning's erasure (plus catering for 17.5 hours hasn't helped much).

For now, I'm wondering what weird circumstance would allow no one to die today. Mafia don't want to show their hand? Were they blocked? Were they trapped in carbonite?

I just had my longest post ever get deleted on my phone. I want to cry. I didn't save it.

It was my magnum opus.

I don't know if I can repeat it. I spent 2 hours typing it out on this PIEXE OF SHIT PHONE DAMMIT.

I know your pain.

Note thAt this is the last read GMan has on espers before voting him, even though he had like 5 other people on his radar for more suspicious reasons. But he votes espers not because espers is bad but because he wanted to "save DH". Like 4 more people voted after GMAn in that last 10 min, so it wouldn't be a stretch to assume that he assumed there would be more votes thrown in other directions. DH had a healthy amount of suspicion, after all. And by tieing the vote at 2-2 it at least have him cred in case espers flipped bad.

Where as LoRab essentially votes espers out in Day 4, where she could have tied it, GMAn just tied it on a person he had a neutral read on anyway. Weird voting but again looks good for him if espers does get voted out and flips. Espers was leaving after the vote anyway, so what better time to appear civ

I had no inside information on either DH or espers but DH was saying things that made firm sense to me. Seeing him in the lead on the poll that close to the end was unconscionable to me and I wasn't about to add a vote to myself to save DH. My vote on espers was all about protecting a player I thought was good. I took a stand but it wasn't enough.

GMan votes LoRab. LoRab had some healthy suspicion at this point, but note that GMan did not just vote to save someone like he said day 3. Crap I'm out of time.

I haven't voted for LoRab at all this game. I'm confused.



Personally, I think we should revisit this gem because part of me wants very much to believe that MP07 is trying to pull the biggest swindle I've ever seen.

TIN FOIL READ ON MOVINGPICTURES07:
D1: 11th vote overall, 2nd vote for Scotty. Talks up suspicions of his teammate early and then slowly backs it down with detailed posts on why Sloonei isn't so suspicious after all. It's subtle defense hidden behind personal observations and reasoning. In theory, he shouldn't get called out on back-tracking on Sloonei because he provided oh so much evidence to support his waning suspicions. He then latches onto Bass's suspicions of Scotty and posts a very detailed theory on why Scotty must be bad. See that? He subtly defended Slooeni while trying to stir the pot on Scotty- both times using his big-talker meta as a shield for his wicked intentions. His vote for Scotty has it 2-2 between Niju and Scotty and just one vote behind his teammate. All he needs is one or two followers to take the bait and get then he can castigate them for their votes after the fact. Too bad no one bit. Possibly silenced himself because that's what baddies do when they think they can get away with it.

D2: Misses the vote. He was silenced and couldn't vote but he wastes his silencing because he's not even on the poll so it doesn't build any sympathy for him whatsoever. Maybe he even encouraged espers to skip the vote because- hey, no Inmates on the poll so why even stick our necks out with a vote?

D3: Keeps his teammate in his top tier of suspects and waits until almost the last minute to vote. Why? To see if espers needs his help. He knows he can't vote DH without getting called on it so he votes sideways for one of his other suspects, using Cookie's rough game against her. He tries to pump up the "Cookie is bad!" wavelength something fierce but no one bites. He gets lucky because espers survived the lynch poll tie. Now he needs someone new to rail against alongside Cookie and decides now is the time to use Elo's odd play this game against her.

D4: 9th vote overall, 3rd vote on Cookie. His vote brings Cookie within 1 vote of tying espers/ika. Despite a lot of agreement that espers/ika is bad new, he caves and falls back on Cookie a second day in a row. It's designed to look consistent though because she doesn't look so great and was in MP07's suspect list already. After the flip, he goes hard at pushing his Elo case. He silences her Night 4 and stirs the pot early by voting for her amidst his verbosity. It attracts a second vote before anyone's realized that Elo has been possibly silenced.

This response is exactly nil of content. I concede that my post this morning (or yesterday morning I should say ) might have been intensely accusatory and i assure you that that wasn't what I originally wrote. It's that a-ha moment that hit me before work and I would like to explore that today. I wI'll of course entertain other options, but only if they bussed one of the mafia like I said earlier.

Anyway, GMan's post here can be broken down into several parts:

1) Reaffirming my points about his voting for espers because he wanted to protect DH and
Not because espers was bad. I get it, it looked good for you to look the hero, attempt to save a good guy, and oh by the way, vote for someone that turned out to be bad later.
2) after restating what I said in regards to the day 3 vote, the rest of your response is redirecting a tinfoil read towards MP, which is another thing I said you were tending to do. I appreciate tin-foil for sure, it's great at wrapping up potatoes to eat later, but sometimes you try microwaving your tin-foil. Don't microwave your tin-foil.

Will respond to more tomorrow, including Cookie, who continues to blip onto my radar whenever she posts. It's actually quite amazing how infrequently frequent she tends to do that.
Until then...stay classy.

Well before Dragon votes for MP07, Scotty posts this, thinking he has figured out how Cookie has navigated the game:

To whoever sent me the ciphered message: thanks for reaching out to me but I cannot figure your message out. Weekends are horrible for me to devote more than 10% of my time to mafia, so I'll try to decode your message if I can find time. Sorry to disappoint you.

What message? I think it's the second time I'm hearing a player receiving some "info" he has to crack during the Night, after Eloh.

I received it Night 4, and used it to inform some of my reads. I'd like to think it's Ozymandias giving us hints.

Otherwise, we're just being duped by the magician.

Elo received a message Night 3.


Anyway, I took a step back from last night. Got a few hours of sleep. Going to bed at 5am didn't help.
I think I did start to get awfully close to tunneling on GMan. But I see the light, and I'm going back to my original read that GMan is probably Morlock.

As for LoRab, I'm actually good with her line of defense. Her absence from the thread makes sense and she's reading more genuine to me.

RE: MM getting silenced. How sure are we of that?

Cookie, Cookie, Cookie.
Your strategy has been very much under my radar for some time now. I couldn't put a finger on it. I did vote for you Day 4, and while I wish after the fact that I had changed it to espers, I'm not regretful of voting you.

(My responses in blue.

G-Man, thanks for those technicolors. I know I knocked them last Day period, and I still firmly believe they shouldn't be the only source of information, but they are an important one.

Cookie, you still wondering why the mafia has kept me alive this whole time? Should be evident now.
Not so much anymore. You are likely to be lynched. But given your posts, you still seem like you could be bad but I don't think you will be receiving my vote tomorrow.
Everything about this sentence is wishy-washy. Confident MP's going to be lynched, so who cares if he hasn't been NK'd yet. But he could be bad, so/but/yet you're not voting him. I'd expect more of a follow-through at this point in the game. She's been shrugging off reads like it's a new fad. Make a commitment.

Everyone, if you want to lynch me tomorrow, so be it. Going into this Day period, it seemed likely to me that I very well could get lynched anyway, and people were complaining that I couldn't commit. I felt strong about what I uncovered shortly after D5's start about Elo, so I decided to take a stand. Otherwise, it seemed as though I might have been dead meat anyway.

If you want to blame her death on me, that's fine. I realize she couldn't even defend herself. I take full responsibility for that lynch, as I stated earlier. I hate that I caused another mislynch and led to an unproductive D5 and likely an unproductive D6. I'm going to try my best to avoid the latter.In your defense, you did not realize she may have been silenced until after your vote and after you posted evidence against her.
You're defending MP here. And with the argument that he didn't know if she couldn't defend herself? MP admits that he realizes she couldn't defend. Either way, I don't think it would have mattered much. MP seemed deadset on that choice in the early phase.

Rico said it best earlier in D5 when he said that the lynch of Elo truly was a test of voting records v. gameplay, because Elo looked pretty good in the former (though not perfect) and terrible in the latter. I took a gamble and I was wrong. For derailing the thread and refusing to listen to counterarguments as much as I should have, I apologize.

Nonetheless, I think that any of you who want to go "BLAME MP" should take a step back and realize that every player here takes an inherent responsibility for their own vote when it is cast (or not cast, which is reprehensible).

I don't apologize for all of the baddie hunting I've done this game. I may have questioned myself too much on Sloonei and espers, and tunneled Elo, but I've done everything in my power to hunt baddies this game. Truly this is a terrible performance from me. But it doesn't make me mafia.

I realize for some (perhaps many) of you, it would take a flip of me to truly confirm that, and nothing I can say would persuade you otherwise. I can empathize.

I was actually feeling selfish earlier this morning, as if I didn't care whether town won this game if they auto-lynched me tomorrow, because it means that I won't win. I put an insane amount of time and energy into this game, and it's been very mentally and emotionally taxing. I think if you are lynched tomorrow, it will not be because you lead the vote on Elo and you turned out to be town. It will be because people have studied your posts and votes and determined you to be the most likely candidate for being bad. If we lynched everyone who led lynches against civs, then we would lose.
I guess we could do the flipside and use your method of scum-hunting: Well he looks bad, but he could be good, but I like he might be bad so I dunno lol
For G-Man to declare to me that I "need to go" was very bothersome, especially when it can be argued that other players "need to go", for whatever reason. I don't think that should EVER be a reason for lynching anyone. Especially for lynching someone who's put as much effort as I have into this game. If you find my actions suspect, sure. But no one, on sheer principle, "needs to go". This isn't a criticism of you, G-Man, and I don't think that's what you intended, since you have declared my voting record as a reason for me being suspect, but I just want this said nonetheless.

Despite that, the truth is that I still want to see civilians win this game regardless. I'm going to try my best in what will probably be my last hour to make that happen.

I don't want to be lynched tomorrow. Right now, there are 10 players alive. Assuming Moloch is alive and a civilian is NKed tonight, that leaves 7-1-1 going into D6. 6-1-1 if I get lynched, then 5-1-1 going into D7. That's still not bad, but less than ideal, since you all can only afford 1 more mislynch after you'd lynch me. 2 mislynches, assuming successful NK of a civilian each Night, would make it 1-1-1, which is GAME OVER for us. Then there's the complication of the Watchmen additional win cons as well.

Think carefully about how you conduct lynches going forward, including my own, since we're running low on chances.

I've responded in pink!

Then gone for 8 hours and swears she will be back "after [her] massage".
Immediately after the no-lynch night, she decides to post some ISOs, which, if you remember from her early game, were very foreign to her. But she should have suspects at this point, and I honestly can't think of any of late.
My responses in blue.

I'm not going to do full ISO's on everyone because... ain't nobody got time fo' dat, but I am going to talk about some post with people from what I can remember. I'm sure most of these points have already been addressed, but like MP says, it's crucial we find the final mafia/muloch. I'm also only looking mostly at votes and things I remember from specific days.

MP - I just remembered he was silenced on D2. If he is the final baddie, why would he silence himself on D2? He wasn't under any heat and no one suspected him at this point. D3 and D4, he voted for me and not Espers, who he continually said looked suspicious. D5 he voted for Elo, which I agree, given the evidence against her, was a valid vote.So...you think he is civ?
MetalMarsh - The only things I find strange about MM is his self-vote for D2 and then proceeded to miss the vote the next day. Did MM say why he voted for DDL on D5?It's MM, no. And again...no read
DDL - I think DDL seems civ. There's nothing he has done that speaks volumes to me like the previous two. He did vote for LoRab on D4, which tied the votes between me, Espers, and LoRab. If he was civ, it was a genuine mistake that he tied the votes by voting who he thought was mafia. If he was maf, he would be tying the votes so that Espers did not (hopefully) die. He voted for Elo on D5. If I recall correctly, wasn't DDL one of the ones who was adamant that Elo was civ? OK, OK. DDL seems civ to you. That's a committed read, I guess.
G-Man - I've no idea what to think about him.Wait, you have no idea what to think of him right now? It's Day 6! You're sure to at least have some opinion one way or another.
LoRab - The last to vote Espers the day that Espers died. Seems civ to me but could just be bussing. Didn't actually secure his death, since the person who voted for Espers before LoRab was securing Espers death unless someone else voted me or LoRab. Could have also been self-preservation, since LoRab knew he/she had suspicions against him/her. When you start using the word "bussing", I am pinged in remembering that I keep wanting to coddle you, thinking you may not know those sorts of terms. But you do, and so I don't want to look at you through rose-colored glasses anymore. Your read on LoRab? seems civ...
Bass/Tiny - I've no idea what to think about them. It's not like Bass was MIA the first few days. Tiny hasnt posted in a while, sure, but he was actively scum hunting. How can you not have an opinion? Baffles me.
Ricochet - Voted Elo on D1 (or is it D0?) but did not vote Elo when MP and Scotty presented evidence (was he away somewhere?). I don't remember if he was actually online for the discussion of that.no read or opinion
Russtifinko - Was the first to vote for Espers/ika, however, ika was bound to be lynched either that day or the next. Although, being the first, seems civ to me. "however", "although", maybe, i dunno lol
Scotty - Seems genuinely sorry for his mistake in voting Elo. He didn't pressure anyone into voting for her, but posted his claims and left it at that. I regard this as a civ move. Nothing else about him gives me baddie vibes. civ again.

So I've no idea who I should vote for. My top suspects would be: MP, MM, and LoRab.
So your top suspects are (in order): maybe civ, no read, seems civ.
Oh boy.. That's like a doctor prescribing me foot cream for my cancerous head growth. It DOESN'T MAKE SENSE

Sorry if I get the Day #s mixed up, I couldn't remember if it was called D0 or D1.

Ricochet is right- you do seem overly comfortable handing out civ tags, and generally don't have a handle on the flow of the game.
Except.
You do seem to be getting a hang of things, with your verbiage in your occasional posts. I'm done looking at you as the baby of the group, you're not a baby. Shouldn't treat you as one. You know full well what you're doing, AND if you were mafia, you're still having espers and Sloonei talk to you beyond the grave, so you're not completely alone, my dear.

Cookie is this guy:
Seems like a trustworthy person, maybe throwing some dance moves in, but in reality, is a werewolf.

What does anyone else see/think?

Establishes Cookie as his top vote prospect:

Did a quick skim of Russ's posts, since he's another player everybody has been talking about and I needed to form an opinion on him.

Honestly I'm having a good feeling about the guy. In the first half of the game he was absent, but that can be justified because of RL, which he did warn us about in advance. In the second half, he became more active. It seems his playstyle is one of not making huge analysis or ISOs, and not tunneling or listing suspects. He gives an opinion about everything that goes on his head, tries to pick meaningful clues on what's going on, and votes with his gut. Not a civ leader, but not an useless civilian either.

I really doubt he is is Big Figure because he had been consistently suspecting espers for a while, and was the first one to vote him on d4. Would be a very risky bussing. And if he is Moloch, then he's playing a very balanced game for a baddie, managing to look natural, not being afraid to say everything that comes to his mind and boldly jumping on suspicions. Of course, the way it's hard for us to find Moloch based on votes, the dude could be simply playing to his own meta while blending with town, but right now I have no reason to believe he's doing that.

Could be a meaningful lynch candidate for lylo if we run out of suspects, but right now, I'm not buying it.

I also am coming more into terms with the fact that this is Russ' personality. He does have a calculated demeanor to him, which is what pinged me in the first place, and yes, he did suspect espers for a while- before espers even left the thread. I would like to hear more from him today and what he thinks, however. Because he's not completely off my list, but has slipped down.

As of now my list for lynching today is, in order: Cookie, GMan, LoRab, Russ, MM

Scotty discusses silencing and his speculation that Derf was dead already here:

my responses in blue.

Updates:

TinyBubbles - hasn't played one bit. I have nothing to work with. If she's landed a bad role (BF or Moloch), it'll be a desolate endgame if we lose. Based on Bass' performance, still inclined to call it slightly civ.
Do we need a replacement for the replacement? Lol

Cookie - no change. Offered more reads and ideas in the meantime, out of which the interesting thing I got was her idea of LoRab's vote for ika mirroring a potential bussing of an already toast teammate, the same way espers bussed Sloonei when it was half clear he'll get lynched; that, combined with the defense of voting in self-preservation, can constitute a bit of blending. She's [Cookie, that is] a bit more comfortable handing out civ tags than I personally am, but fine, at least there's something to take note of her views on everyone else. Her top current suspects, assuming a vote would materialize from them, are LoRab (ok), MP (she said she won't vote for him, though) and MM (she only found two strange things in his gameplay, yet is putting him at the top? sounds a bit comfy). Keeping a close eye on her.
I said I would not vote MP in the night so that I didn't get killed for saying I would vote for him, considering I think he is the final mafia. I am most likely to vote for MP today unless I am convinced someone else is mafia given other theories or if others are willing (and do) vote for LoRab. MM is silenced and I remember people saying it's not really fair to vote for silenced players.It's assumed, but we don't know MM is silenced. Unless...you do know he is silenced..

DDL - no improvement from previous read, in fact I actually feel worse about him. He ended up D4 calling MP scum and ISO'd the hell out of him on N4, but the next Day it all kinda vanished. He acknowledge a bit of his ISO was inaccurate, but was that really enough to take the pedal off him? I don't think it was ever clear, if so. States several times - in real time with MP's case on Eloh, furthermore - that he doesn't find Elo to be Big Figure, only to return and find MP's and Scotty's arguments convincing. Nothing inherently bad with that, since I myself found some of those angles interesting indeed (plus Eloh's whole gameplay truly awful), but this feels too flexible and non-committal, compared to the DDL that hunted and challenged hard on his own. (Golden, D2; DH, D3; MP, D4) I don't like this. Considering a vote for DDL today.
Now that you mention it, that's a good point about DDL, who previously was dead set on his reads and opinions, but was easily way in the vote with Elo.

G-Man - no change, I think. Also, check Scotty for a bit more speculation on him.

LoRab - Hasn't been really into the game since D4, when she mostly focused on defending herself and getting herself out of being lynched. I don't remember hearing a suspect from her apart from G-Man the first three days. Oh, you prefer sticking with your leads, rather than being in the loop with others? "Frankly dear..." No change from what I already wrote about her. I'm sorry, but just like with Eloh (even if she was good), you will seriously have to tell how am I supposed to trust LoRab. I'm feeling she's completely detached from the main events and it only makes me more wary. I wouldn't mind voting her today.
She has been voting for G-Man every chance she gets (could be a way to stay off of Rorschach's list, since no one else was willing to vote for him to the extent she did). She also doesn't seem to have considered anyone else?

MM

Day 1: 2nd vote for Ninja (Ninja at 2, all the other eventual wagons not even commenced)
Day 2: self-votes because he's MM and AWOL (first vote of the Day as well, will end up in a tie with Golden and survive)
Day 3: misses vote
Day 4: 1st vote for LoRab, on her being opportunistic and tunneling with her votes (first vote of the Day as well, LoRab will end up with three votes, tied with Cookie, ika will get lynched with 5)
Day 5: only vote for DDL, on his Moloch speculation and profiling him as Moloch (you guessed it, first vote of the Day)

Interactions with confirmed Mafia members

Sloonei - allocates an "ike" emoticon to him; admits voting alongside Sloonei, but for simple reasons of voting anyone; later comments on LC's theories of Eloh being Sloonei's teammate; defends himself against Scotty by not actually defending much and agreeing his vote followed Sloonei's (WIFOM planting?)

espers - allocates espers a "mole rat" emoticon; absolutely nothing else
ika - recommends to him to vote LoRab

Read: Enigma. Earlier I thought his banter and fluffing was coming off baddish, but it's hardly a tenth of the stuff he usually pulls; he's far more detached than that. His lack of confrontation with the field, as well as total lack of interaction or read on the confirmed Mafia members (whether distancing or not), doesn't bring in mind the baddie profile I had of him, either. His only semblance of a real case was on LoRab, but then he didn't seem to care about it anymore the next Day. The only pattern I could speculate on (tin-foil-style, let's say) is that his acknowledging of his D1 being close to Sloonei's would be WIFOM planting, and that his suggestion to ika to "simply vote LoRab" could be dastardly buddying (although ika never paid attention to him, so it's probably just banter). His latest speculation is that DDL is Moloch, because it fits the profile of a dormant baddie who hunts a lot to look good. But wouldn't the angle of a dormant Moloch who doesn't do anything also seem plausible? His dismissal of G-Man's suspicions on him, openly saying he doesn't care one bit if he'd get voted by him, could also be notable.
I have no idea where to place MM - yeah, bet you've never heard that before - I'm not too sure he could be the last Inmate and his detachment makes me think the odds are: 60% he's just MM, 30% he's Moloch, 10% he's - yeah, I'll say it* - an unlynchable** Manhattan who also gives no fucks about what happens (MM could have rezz'd Scotty to amend for the D1 banter they had; or for the lulz).

*this is pure speculation, please treat it as such; I've checked with Epig before to see if I'm allowed to make such a specific speculation; if you find it unplausible, think back to Death Note (if you've played it); **I'm not sure Epig's deist views of designing a mafia game would allow for an overpowered, unlynchable Manhattan, but still...he was overpowered and unkillable in the comics and the Watchmen, as far as it's shown, are fairly designed up to lore

Russtifinko

Day 1 - 2nd vote for G-Man, finding his wording strange (Sloonei at 4, Ninja at 3)
Day 2 - misses vote
Day 3 - misses vote
Day 4 - 1st vote for ika, for behavior (tied with LoRab)
Day 2 - 2nd vote for MP, to keep binary lynch close (brings MP at 2, with Eloh at 3)

Interactions with confirmed Mafia members

Sloonei - indirectly considers llama's points on him having merits (Sloonei's defensiveness being off-putting)
espers - considers his D1 vote the most suspicious, but find there's need to develop his view further; then finds him "above-board" for content; finds him safe vote for D3, although based only on his stated suspicious (which he considers not to be much); D4, keeps espers as mild suspicion; then (at Scotty's inquiry), considers him top read; votes ika for behavior; profiles last teammate as somebody who didn't buss espers on D3, but did on D4

Read: I'm not getting any strong bad vibe from browsing his posts, especially since he got more engaged in the game - he's going deep into reading, relying on gut and meta, participating and challenging others with reads etc. - but some of the interaction above is spotty, just like with many others. He consented to the general view on Sloonei, finding his defensiveness off-putting the way llama put it, but he focused otherwise on Eloh and G-Man and voted late for the latter, in a lynch train that was hardly relevant (despite G-Man's actions being a hot topic). It sounds reasonable, but it's also susceptible to a tin foil version of planting a suspicion on Sloonei to look good, then act in different directions. Just like with Bass, I will be absolutely floored if Russ would turn out to have been part of a surviving Mafia (alongside espers) which totally slacked off almost two Days in a row. His "mild suspicions" on espers, that failed to materialize into a vote until D4, have been brought up before and it was what he started getting some heat for. His early vote for ika technically makes him look good, but since ika totally bombed his exit, it's still believable that he would have been bussed without hesitation. His defense for Eloh makes me feel better, overall. As I've said, I'm reading a Russ who is putting a good game since he got into it for good. I can't decide at the moment how strongly, apart from the shoddy details mentioned above, I suspect him.

Scotty

Day 1 - Votes Eloh (vote hardly relevant within the eventual dynamic of the lynch: Sloonei currently at 1, Ninja at 2, G-Man also having a vote)
Day 4 - 1st vote for Cookie (ties her with LoRab and ika)
Day 5 - 2nd vote for Eloh, finds her very likely Big Figure (Eloh at 2, DDL at 1)

Interactions with confirmed Mafia members

Sloonei - wasn't pinged by his game; anything else is in context with other reads or discussions

espers - inquires him on reads; talk about D0 results; the rest is in context with other reads, discussion, other players' reads on espers; agrees the replacement is very suspicious; adds ika to his lynch options, based on MP and Russ reads

Scotty is hunting and failing so far, something that he himself acknowledged after the Eloh fail. I'm naturally inclined not to suspect mislynchers right off the bat (being a grave one myself, usually) and most of Scotty's hunting doesn't look to be superficial, tunneling or fake to me. His lack of Sloonei ping and odd voting got him in trouble after D1, to which him being NK'd is a strong indicator that it couldn't have been a sacrifice within the Mafia team. That being said, his shallow surface direct reads on the confirmed Mafia members, compared to always bringing other players in context with them, is pretty undesirable. I will say this, I will basically flip barking mad if Manhattan screwed up and resurrected a baddie Scotty (either Inmate or Moloch), because it feels like a defenseless situation to deal with. His death and rezz doesn't exonerate him from the odds of being bad, but I cannot say I'm getting bad vibes from him right now. I'm noticing a lot of focus from him on G-Man and I'm wondering if there's not something subtle about it; he seems to try to find a bad angle on everything G-Man is doing, even that D3 vote situation, which I personally still can't wrap my head around as being indicative of G-Man being bad - this may be slight tunnel-ish, but I makes me wonder all the more if Scotty isn't aware of something.

In case you're wondering where's the read on MP, hol' up for a few more hours. I'm probably risking again to drag my reads (and my sanity) near to the late deadline hours, but in case I'll feel that'll be the case, I'll focus right away on a shorter version and provide it.

I've responded in pink. I agree with your analysis of Russ and Scotty.

I need to go to work, will be back off and on later on. I thought maybe Derf was dead at this point, because I don't remember having two silencers. I guess I'll wait an hour and see. It does seem odd for both to be posting elsewhere.

If that;s the case, dammit derf. One of those guys is AT LEAST good, so why eliminate a good vote?

Here he responds to a few comments by Cookie, which I believe can be found starting here:

I'm on my phone again, so I'm not quoting anything, but this in response to @Cookie, point by point

-fair enough about your read of MP during the night phase. Though I'm usually in the camp of letting things out in all phases, I completely understand the reasoning of not revealing too much at night for fear of NK.
But your reasoning the next day was sparse at best, so I don't necessarily see a connection between your fear of being NK'd and your openness during the day.

-cheering up sad MP: awwww ok I'll let this pass
- on my read of your reads and is it mocking? Well, it might read as inherently mocking, though I define mocking as the intent of getting a negative emotional response out of someone. If that's the case, I apologize. That's just how I read your reads, nothing more than that.
-thinking Mp is mafia- ok. I just can't help but wonder what you're thinking when you point out something suspicious and in the same breath counter yourself with a positive viewpoint.

This one is BS-
-your skipped the first 2 days because your friend wasn't playing? So that's why you don't have a read on GMan or Bass? I don't believe that for a second. I seem to remember you finding the "in-topic" button underneath player names to look through people's history. The thread is here. I was literally DEAD for 2 days and I can still read through all the garbage of those days to get at least a viewpoint.
I'm rather new to mafia myself, and don't really know how anyone plays either (except like 3-4 people, though I don't know if they are civ in mafia in BoB). Maybe I'm just more intuitive than the normal person with how forums work but I find it hard to believe even if you're just getting used to these people's play styles, it exempts you from having an opinion either way.
Could it be that your teammate was lynched first day and you so became overwhelmed with your sudden responsibility of being on your own, posting thru your own merits, that you didn't know how to get a good grip on the game?
I don't know where you come from, and I don't know how your compatriots usually play there. But I don't see the excuse of your friend not playing as valid even in that home forum.

-if you listed your top suspects, you claim it should appear that you think they are mafia: that's not completely right, and your reasoning was weak at best. With no clear read on potential mafia, adding people to that suspect list holds little merit, IMHO.

-How do you know espers left for RL reasons? I don't remember anyone posting that reasoning, let alone him.

And the vote:

Yeah I was holding out hope but it's been an hour and so I just voted Cookie because I'm not convinced otherwise

VOTE #3: LoRab

Spoiler: show

Her first mention of Cookie on Day 6:

Into the games means interested and posting as much as one can. Your post seemed to imply that I was blowing the game off and just wasn't into it any more. Did I misunderstand?

Yes.

Please don't lecture me as how the game works--I've been playing for a while now, thanks.

I'm civ. I really think we need to lynch the big bad this cycle, or at least moloch. I am not either of those. Are you? I don't really suspect you, but I figured I'd ask.

I am not.

But let's pretend that we all believe that I'm civ. Whom do we think is not?

Would be nice to hear from you on this matter as well.

And I seem to be cranky today, so I apologize.

I still suspect GMan. I think he's more likely Moloch than Big Bad, but my susupicion of him hasn't changed.

Cookie I still think could have been playing the newbie card a big. And, now that s/he (sorry, don't know everyone's gender around here yet) doesn't have anyone to discuss things with, and having been called out in the thread for it, is posting more content and being more confident.

MM I can't help but shake off a suspicious feeling. He (he?) seems to have someone different every day to say, yeah vote for them they're bad, without giving any reason. And then moves on to someone else. And, yes, I've been one of those people, so I admit that colors my thinking, but it doesn't feel right. But maybe Moloch. And, since Epi said something about not liking self-targeting somewhere, could fake being silenced.

MP I really doubt is bad. I don't think a baddie or indy would put that much work into getting Elo lynched. His passion for that case sounded real. I really think he believed it.

Tiny Bubbles, as I said, could have missed a PM. That MM seems to have been silenced seems to make it appear that something else happened with the kill. I can't remember who posted the idea that only 1 kill is inherited, which is an interesting thought. I also wonder if a silence came from elsewhere.

I don't have strong opinions on anyone else.

Does anyone have a Rorschach list handy?

LoRab mentions Cookie (not in a suspicious way) when the topic of Rorschach's list is brought up:

@Cookie: I've been on Rorscharch's list since day 2, so avoiding that list hasn't been my goal for a while, unfortunately.

@Scotty (I think it was Scotty): I don't think we should be trusting Ozymandias as a role, based entirely on source material.

linkitis: @Ricochet: I meant a complete list of all of the players throughout the game who would be on the list--not just the ones who are still living.

Sees someone thinking Cookie is possibly civ:

I'm frustrated, yes. I've had suspicion of me since day 1 and it's now day 6 and I know I'm not bad. So, yes, it becomes frustrating.

Why do you think MM and Cookie are both civ?

Looks like here may be where she pivots to considering Cookie. Cookie tries to explain the response further bu LoRab says she's not buying it. TIMING NOTE: This happened one hour after Scotty voted for Cookie.

-How do you know espers left for RL reasons? I don't remember anyone posting that reasoning, let alone him.I'm assuming this because why else would he leave with no explanation unless he was leaving because of being lynched out? Regardless, he wasn't interested in playing this game, so I doubt he'd be interesting in helping out the final mafia.

Wait, what?!

Just a few posts later:

Leaning towards voting cookie at this point. But want to hold off in case I need to save myself.

And her vote:

I'm starting to fall asleep, so need to vote. Voted Cookie. My gut just keeps telling me she's bad. Imperfect reasoning, but my gut is my gut. So, that's where I'm going.

[G-Man]

VOTE #4: Ricochet

Spoiler: show

Takes some time to review and mentions his thoughts on most players, including Dragon:

Updates:

TinyBubbles - hasn't played one bit. I have nothing to work with. If she's landed a bad role (BF or Moloch), it'll be a desolate endgame if we lose. Based on Bass' performance, still inclined to call it slightly civ.

Cookie - no change. Offered more reads and ideas in the meantime, out of which the interesting thing I got was her idea of LoRab's vote for ika mirroring a potential bussing of an already toast teammate, the same way espers bussed Sloonei when it was half clear he'll get lynched; that, combined with the defense of voting in self-preservation, can constitute a bit of blending. She's [Cookie, that is] a bit more comfortable handing out civ tags than I personally am, but fine, at least there's something to take note of her views on everyone else. Her top current suspects, assuming a vote would materialize from them, are LoRab (ok), MP (she said she won't vote for him, though) and MM (she only found two strange things in his gameplay, yet is putting him at the top? sounds a bit comfy). Keeping a close eye on her.

DDL - no improvement from previous read, in fact I actually feel worse about him. He ended up D4 calling MP scum and ISO'd the hell out of him on N4, but the next Day it all kinda vanished. He acknowledge a bit of his ISO was inaccurate, but was that really enough to take the pedal off him? I don't think it was ever clear, if so. States several times - in real time with MP's case on Eloh, furthermore - that he doesn't find Elo to be Big Figure, only to return and find MP's and Scotty's arguments convincing. Nothing inherently bad with that, since I myself found some of those angles interesting indeed (plus Eloh's whole gameplay truly awful), but this feels too flexible and non-committal, compared to the DDL that hunted and challenged hard on his own. (Golden, D2; DH, D3; MP, D4) I don't like this. Considering a vote for DDL today.

G-Man - no change, I think. Also, check Scotty for a bit more speculation on him.

LoRab - Hasn't been really into the game since D4, when she mostly focused on defending herself and getting herself out of being lynched. I don't remember hearing a suspect from her apart from G-Man the first three days. Oh, you prefer sticking with your leads, rather than being in the loop with others? "Frankly dear..." No change from what I already wrote about her. I'm sorry, but just like with Eloh (even if she was good), you will seriously have to tell how am I supposed to trust LoRab. I'm feeling she's completely detached from the main events and it only makes me more wary. I wouldn't mind voting her today.

MM

Day 1: 2nd vote for Ninja (Ninja at 2, all the other eventual wagons not even commenced)
Day 2: self-votes because he's MM and AWOL (first vote of the Day as well, will end up in a tie with Golden and survive)
Day 3: misses vote
Day 4: 1st vote for LoRab, on her being opportunistic and tunneling with her votes (first vote of the Day as well, LoRab will end up with three votes, tied with Cookie, ika will get lynched with 5)
Day 5: only vote for DDL, on his Moloch speculation and profiling him as Moloch (you guessed it, first vote of the Day)

Interactions with confirmed Mafia members

Sloonei - allocates an "ike" emoticon to him; admits voting alongside Sloonei, but for simple reasons of voting anyone; later comments on LC's theories of Eloh being Sloonei's teammate; defends himself against Scotty by not actually defending much and agreeing his vote followed Sloonei's (WIFOM planting?)

espers - allocates espers a "mole rat" emoticon; absolutely nothing else
ika - recommends to him to vote LoRab

Read: Enigma. Earlier I thought his banter and fluffing was coming off baddish, but it's hardly a tenth of the stuff he usually pulls; he's far more detached than that. His lack of confrontation with the field, as well as total lack of interaction or read on the confirmed Mafia members (whether distancing or not), doesn't bring in mind the baddie profile I had of him, either. His only semblance of a real case was on LoRab, but then he didn't seem to care about it anymore the next Day. The only pattern I could speculate on (tin-foil-style, let's say) is that his acknowledging of his D1 being close to Sloonei's would be WIFOM planting, and that his suggestion to ika to "simply vote LoRab" could be dastardly buddying (although ika never paid attention to him, so it's probably just banter). His latest speculation is that DDL is Moloch, because it fits the profile of a dormant baddie who hunts a lot to look good. But wouldn't the angle of a dormant Moloch who doesn't do anything also seem plausible? His dismissal of G-Man's suspicions on him, openly saying he doesn't care one bit if he'd get voted by him, could also be notable.
I have no idea where to place MM - yeah, bet you've never heard that before - I'm not too sure he could be the last Inmate and his detachment makes me think the odds are: 60% he's just MM, 30% he's Moloch, 10% he's - yeah, I'll say it* - an unlynchable** Manhattan who also gives no fucks about what happens (MM could have rezz'd Scotty to amend for the D1 banter they had; or for the lulz).

*this is pure speculation, please treat it as such; I've checked with Epig before to see if I'm allowed to make such a specific speculation; if you find it unplausible, think back to Death Note (if you've played it); **I'm not sure Epig's deist views of designing a mafia game would allow for an overpowered, unlynchable Manhattan, but still...he was overpowered and unkillable in the comics and the Watchmen, as far as it's shown, are fairly designed up to lore

Russtifinko

Day 1 - 2nd vote for G-Man, finding his wording strange (Sloonei at 4, Ninja at 3)
Day 2 - misses vote
Day 3 - misses vote
Day 4 - 1st vote for ika, for behavior (tied with LoRab)
Day 2 - 2nd vote for MP, to keep binary lynch close (brings MP at 2, with Eloh at 3)

Interactions with confirmed Mafia members

Sloonei - indirectly considers llama's points on him having merits (Sloonei's defensiveness being off-putting)
espers - considers his D1 vote the most suspicious, but find there's need to develop his view further; then finds him "above-board" for content; finds him safe vote for D3, although based only on his stated suspicious (which he considers not to be much); D4, keeps espers as mild suspicion; then (at Scotty's inquiry), considers him top read; votes ika for behavior; profiles last teammate as somebody who didn't buss espers on D3, but did on D4

Read: I'm not getting any strong bad vibe from browsing his posts, especially since he got more engaged in the game - he's going deep into reading, relying on gut and meta, participating and challenging others with reads etc. - but some of the interaction above is spotty, just like with many others. He consented to the general view on Sloonei, finding his defensiveness off-putting the way llama put it, but he focused otherwise on Eloh and G-Man and voted late for the latter, in a lynch train that was hardly relevant (despite G-Man's actions being a hot topic). It sounds reasonable, but it's also susceptible to a tin foil version of planting a suspicion on Sloonei to look good, then act in different directions. Just like with Bass, I will be absolutely floored if Russ would turn out to have been part of a surviving Mafia (alongside espers) which totally slacked off almost two Days in a row. His "mild suspicions" on espers, that failed to materialize into a vote until D4, have been brought up before and it was what he started getting some heat for. His early vote for ika technically makes him look good, but since ika totally bombed his exit, it's still believable that he would have been bussed without hesitation. His defense for Eloh makes me feel better, overall. As I've said, I'm reading a Russ who is putting a good game since he got into it for good. I can't decide at the moment how strongly, apart from the shoddy details mentioned above, I suspect him.

Scotty

Day 1 - Votes Eloh (vote hardly relevant within the eventual dynamic of the lynch: Sloonei currently at 1, Ninja at 2, G-Man also having a vote)
Day 4 - 1st vote for Cookie (ties her with LoRab and ika)
Day 5 - 2nd vote for Eloh, finds her very likely Big Figure (Eloh at 2, DDL at 1)

Interactions with confirmed Mafia members

Sloonei - wasn't pinged by his game; anything else is in context with other reads or discussions

espers - inquires him on reads; talk about D0 results; the rest is in context with other reads, discussion, other players' reads on espers; agrees the replacement is very suspicious; adds ika to his lynch options, based on MP and Russ reads

Scotty is hunting and failing so far, something that he himself acknowledged after the Eloh fail. I'm naturally inclined not to suspect mislynchers right off the bat (being a grave one myself, usually) and most of Scotty's hunting doesn't look to be superficial, tunneling or fake to me. His lack of Sloonei ping and odd voting got him in trouble after D1, to which him being NK'd is a strong indicator that it couldn't have been a sacrifice within the Mafia team. That being said, his shallow surface direct reads on the confirmed Mafia members, compared to always bringing other players in context with them, is pretty undesirable. I will say this, I will basically flip barking mad if Manhattan screwed up and resurrected a baddie Scotty (either Inmate or Moloch), because it feels like a defenseless situation to deal with. His death and rezz doesn't exonerate him from the odds of being bad, but I cannot say I'm getting bad vibes from him right now. I'm noticing a lot of focus from him on G-Man and I'm wondering if there's not something subtle about it; he seems to try to find a bad angle on everything G-Man is doing, even that D3 vote situation, which I personally still can't wrap my head around as being indicative of G-Man being bad - this may be slight tunnel-ish, but I makes me wonder all the more if Scotty isn't aware of something.

In case you're wondering where's the read on MP, hol' up for a few more hours. I'm probably risking again to drag my reads (and my sanity) near to the late deadline hours, but in case I'll feel that'll be the case, I'll focus right away on a shorter version and provide it.

Spends part of his day discussing theories (agree/disagree with parts of them) with a couple players. Then this after Dragon responds to the above post:

DDL - no improvement from previous read, in fact I actually feel worse about him. He ended up D4 calling MP scum and ISO'd the hell out of him on N4, but the next Day it all kinda vanished. He acknowledge a bit of his ISO was inaccurate, but was that really enough to take the pedal off him? I don't think it was ever clear, if so. States several times - in real time with MP's case on Eloh, furthermore - that he doesn't find Elo to be Big Figure, only to return and find MP's and Scotty's arguments convincing. Nothing inherently bad with that, since I myself found some of those angles interesting indeed (plus Eloh's whole gameplay truly awful), but this feels too flexible and non-committal, compared to the DDL that hunted and challenged hard on his own. (Golden, D2; DH, D3; MP, D4) I don't like this. Considering a vote for DDL today.

Alright, my vanishing from this game the past few days can be explained by my decision of playing two big games at once, and the burnout I had because of that. My head was literally hurting from too much mafia friday night, and yesterday I took a break. This is my fault, but it doesn't mean I'm bad. That said, I'm now a dead man walking in the other game (I survived the lynch because of abilities but they're gonna lynch me again), so now I'll be able to dedicate my attention to this one.

My D5 was probably the sloppiest thing that I did in this game. I had a feeling MP and Scotty were on to something there, but they weren't, and I was stupid for tunneling on that. I believed Eloh could be Moloch, and I decided to confirm that, and I guess my theory that Eloh could have bussed both of her teammates (and thus also being possibly Big Figure) was a case of confirmation bias. I wanted to believe Eloh was mafia, and when Scotty and MP gave me a reason for it, I elaborated on it myself and used it to justify a vote.

From now on, I'm gonna vote based on my own suspicions, and screw everyone else.

That said, I think Eloh's silencing last phase was intentional, and might have been a strategy to pull an easy lynch on a player who otherwise could have saved herself from the lynch. Although I don't blame anyone but myself for my own vote, I could see that being an intentional play by either MP or Scotty. For instance, it's interesting how MP picked the very phase Eloh got silenced to tunnel on her, also changing the playstyle he had kept for most of the game. Though yes, they could have legitimately fell for the trap while the silencer was staying in the sidelines watching everything. Actually, I'm almost sure that's what happened to either MP or Scotty, though it could also have happened to both.

I finally finished catching up, and now I'm gonna look at some ISOs and post a list of suspects. Stay tuned.

Uh, no, not your vanishing as a player, your case's vanishing. (Again, just like LoRab, I don't criticize players for "vanishing".) It felt to me like as soon as MP pointed out some inaccuracies about your ISO and you agreed it invalidates a few stuff and said you'll recheck it, it ended up nowhere. You simply said it didn't invalidate the rest of your case and you're keeping him in check. To which my question, if you've called him Mafia a Day before and made ISO hardly invalidating this conclusion, why the downgrade to "still a suspect"?

You make some fair points about having referenced Eloh as potential Moloch but not Big Figure, so I'll look back over your posts, although I'd still say your vote post and reasoning was based on her actually being Big Figure and bussing both her teammates. I didn't get the "maybe Elo is Moloch and I'm fine with that too" impression from that particular post, only from your explanations right now, which is of course a bit in retrospect.

Asserts that MM has been silenced based on forum behavior:

MM has been silenced, he's applying the Roxy method of posting in every other section to signal this.

Mixes it up with Dragon a little bit more:

Uh, no, not your vanishing as a player, your case's vanishing. (Again, just like LoRab, I don't criticize players for "vanishing".) It felt to me like as soon as MP pointed out some inaccuracies about your ISO and you agreed it invalidates a few stuff and said you'll recheck it, it ended up nowhere. You simply said it didn't invalidate the rest of your case and you're keeping him in check. To which my question, if you've called him Mafia a Day before and made ISO hardly invalidating this conclusion, why the downgrade to "still a suspect"?

You make some fair points about having referenced Eloh as potential Moloch but not Big Figure, so I'll look back over your posts, although I'd still say your vote post and reasoning was based on her actually being Big Figure and bussing both her teammates. I didn't get the "maybe Elo is Moloch and I'm fine with that too" impression from that particular post, only from your explanations right now, which is of course a bit in retrospect.

I've been consistently suspecting MP since I made the first ISO on him, if that's what you wanna know. I took a detour on day 5, but I'm probably voting him today.

"Still a suspect" is not a downgrade. Nobody can get more suspicious than that. Because I can't know for sure anyone is mafia, so the best I can do is call them suspects.

The Eloh case was pretty sloppy, though I believe you should look at my dialogue with MP and Scotty about it if you want to understand what I was thinking.

This is downgrade I meant (or sensed)

Yes I do have some nerve. I'm doing that because I think you're mafia. If later you flip civ, I'll apologize for everything. But now I don't think you'll flip civ.

That said though, I still suspect MP. For all I know he could be whatever of the 2 baddies Eloh is not. LoRab is still on my list too, I haven't forgotten her.

Your dialogue with MP and Scotty feels like it's pointing straight at the switch between dismissing Eloh as Inmate and embracing the viewpoint.

Guys, Elo is the last mafia. I'm sure of it. She's taking advantage of the momentum there is to vote for me, based on what DDL has been pushing, in order to lead a lynch on me. Her vote on D1 for Sloonei was clearly after seeing how Epi's vote succeeded for him in Guess Who?, and her sloppy distancing from Sloonei was real.

In fact, if you lynch Elo today and she comes back civilian, I implore all of you to lynch me immediately thereafter.

I'm almost completely sure Elo is not Big Figure, because it would have required her to sacrifice both of her teamates, and I don't think that's an optimal play to do.

She could, however, be Moloch, based on her behavior, which I agree is really fishy.

@Scotty

But two sacrifices? With votes on both of them? Forget the opinions, look at the votes.

That kind of play only makes sense if you think you can gain enough cred to survive till the rest of the game. Do you think Eloh came even close to doing that?

I could only see that as possible if she thought espers was doomed and decided to make a risky gambit, upon realizing her faction's likehood of winning was shit anyway. While the Sloonei sacrifice, at that point, was seen as a safer move, with two other members left. Still, it sounds far-fetched.

Scotty, do you think Elo is a baddie, or you think she is Big Figure? I want to know what you think. Do you thinks she is more likely to be Big Figure than Moloch?

MP, calm down. I knew you'd be pissed by the NO U point, but I had to point it out.

I have a question for you about Elo. Don't you think Elo's votes are way too risky for Big Figure, specially considering she would be sacrificing both of her teamates?

I'm asking those questions because I'm way more interested in hunting Big Figure now than Moloch, so I want to know what you guys think.

Also, "more interested in hunting Big Figure now that Moloch" and voting Eloh accordingly doesn't quite equate with what you've said earlier now that you "believed Eloh could be Moloch, and I decided to confirm that, and I guess my theory that Eloh could have bussed both of her teammates (and thus also being possibly Big Figure) was a case of confirmation bias".

Asserts that both MP07 and MM have been silenced:

I also really want MP to weigh in here at some point today. I'm attempting not to tunnel, but I'm about to put my hand in the Cookie jar and go past the point of no return.

Both MM and MP have posted in every section of the forum but here, which I've recalled to have been a tactic in the past to signal you are silenced.

Either both of them have been genuinely hit by the two silencers or one or both of them are bullshitting us.

More talking about the silencings:

But serious thought, now. This is likely MP's second time being silenced, if it's genuine (he didn't confirm D2, but we all assumed it was obvious) - incidentally, this could be MM's second time as well (he hinted at being silenced D3, I think).

If Derf did, his intentions are pretty clear, he probably suspects MP is Mafia. Or retribution for Eloh. ([bantz]Or he wanted a quieter Day. [/bantz])

MP doing it to himself is not out of the question. MP doing it to himself and being BF is also not out of the question. I recall Epignosis being lynched in Hardy Salty Kipper after he silenced himself too many times - the civs rationale was why would Mafia keep silencing him instead of NK'ing him, if they can't stand him; and it worked!

If MP is civ and got silenced by BF, he [MP] did a pretty shit job the other night by saying "I have every intention of considering literally every player as the last mafia tomorrow". That doesn't create any kind of window of who would want to shut him up. He pointed a bit at Russ, plus had Cookie, LoRab and G-Man top of his updated list, but who knows, completely inconcludent.

Asks for other people's input on Dragon's Day 5:

Does anyone have an opinion on DDL's D5? Or defense of D5? Or overall mix of hunts and gameplay? I feel his rebuttals are on a very thin line between genuine and having enough room to come up with competent explanations. Between him and Scotty as, let's say, mislynchers, I feel better about Scotty than DDL, even though DDL scored Sloonei on the first day. Plus, he's somehow still my gut read for Moloch.

Makes a note on MP07's desires for discussion and brings up who he recalls as MP07's suspicions:

Compared to MP, who left a "let's reflect on everybody" note before being silenced that is of no use to figure who might be pleased to not have MP's vote in the poll, if BF silenced MM, he had his eye (and votes) on LoRab and DDL, on the only occasions that he got serious in the game.

Offers his top suspects:

Well, it's one hour left and, realistically, I think five more votes to be made (I'm counting out the silenced, because if they faked it but do show up to vote, they pretty much commit suicide, and TinyBubbles, who is nowhere to be seen). Six with Tiny.

How about we put our top choices on the table? I'm very torn between my first two

- DDL - out of all the hunters, I feel least good about him
- LoRab - out of all the players, I feel least good about her
- third probably Cookie, based on today

Doesn't waver on his suspicions even as the deadline looms:

Whether or not this lynch works out for us, I'm kind of interested to see who tries to pick me apart, since if Rorschach's still alive, he's gonna have to try.

Ey?

I'm attempting to whittle down who my watchmen reads are for when we can catch Morlock (if he's still alive), and if we make the right decision and kill Big Figure tonight.

Rico, where are you leaning right now?

DDL tbh. I'm more drawn in by how everything seems in place with his game (the hunting, analysing, focused play), yet it makes me feel less good by the day. One good first Day, then two bad hunts he contributed to significantly, a murky D4 (I can't even remember how committed he was to LoRab being bad, since he ended the Day being pinged to scum level by MP) and the switchy D5 (having all the premise, propensity and ISO backcheck to stick strongly with MP, but ending up agreeing with the Eloh case on an angle that he wasn't focused on or confident in). Plus he's MO is looking for intense bussing (in BF's case) and detachment (in Moloch's case), but what if it's the other way around and the last Inmate worked in different ways and Moloch is hunting and civ-looking to survive the longest and find comfort in cleaning up the players via lynch?

linki: I meant dropping that self-preserve intention, Russ.

And he votes Dragon.

VOTE #5: Russtifinko

Spoiler: show

Comes out swinging with thoughts on several players (LoRab is among them):

Hi all! Back from my trip and have read up. Posting what's immediately on my mind, and then I have to get my life back in order (e.g. shower, laundry, etc.). I will be around to talk most of the evening, even if I'm a bit in and out.

First, based on their posting in other threads, I fully believe both MM and MP are silenced today. It would be impossible for MP to not post if he weren't, and I don't think MM would say absolutely nothing, either.

LoRab, all we've seen from you for days is defending yourself. I get that you follow your own path, and you say you're involved, but the fact of the matter is you're not offering a ton of help right now, and for me the more you write huge defenses without saying much else, the worse you look. Who do YOU think is bad? Do you think the players accusing you are bad, or simply misguided civs? Do you think espers' baddie companion bussed him yesterday?

I'm still on my "Cookie is probably actually a newbie" line of thought, so I doubt I'd vote there today. Again, I was leaning civ on Bass/Bubbles. However, now that she's not been active since joining and there was no kill last night, she looks a lot worse to me. As others have pointed out, there are possibilities for a sent kill to not happen, but they seem fairly limited.

I'm still really torn on MP. If he's a baddie, he's doing a masterful job of having a reply to every single charge leveled at him. As I said before, some of his reasonings seem TOO tight. But I just keep coming back to whether I believe that a lone MP would be so ballsy on the Elo case. I think I'm leaning a slight no on that right now, but I waffle.

G-Man is a bit of a question mark to me as well, and I kind of have him lumped in with LoRab as "people who are hard to read and haven't really done much baddie hunting lately".

I wouldn't lynch MM today. I'd still like to see more from him, but I was leaning civ previously and I'm gonna stick with my gut on a day he's silenced.

Oh! And LoRab, why so interested in Rorschach's list? Even when Rico said you were on it?

Does anyone have a Rorschach list handy?

DDL (Golden, DH, Eloh)
Cookie (Golden, DH)
LoRab (Golden)
Scotty (Eloh)
MP (Eloh)

Do you have a complete list (including people already gone)?

Linki: I do agree with LoRab that Scotty seems to be putting an inordinate amount of trust in Ozymandias, who may not have any info anyone else doesn't have.

And G-Man, if MP had done that, it would be one of the ballerest baddie plays of all time. I know he is very good at being bad. I just can't decide if I think he's quite THAT good.

Unafraid to mix it up with one of his suspects:

Meant to add.

@Russ: You seem to neglect considering that either of those players could fake being silenced.

Bit testy, eh, LoRab?

You are in substance correct, even though the tone might actually make me more suspicious of you. I failed to read the post with actual content you wrote earlier. In my defense, I skimmed because the previous two posts were walls of text that were all defense, which didn't interest me. Fool me once and all that. Anyway, my point here is that instead of jumbo defense posts, talking about what you think with the time you do have for mafia would actually improve my view on you. I'm sure that goes for others as well.

However, your point about the kill PM likely NOT being missed, because 2 people appear to be silenced, is a really good one. It makes me less suspicious of Bubbles, although I still really hope she comes back.

And you're right; I did neglect to consider that they would fake being silenced - on purpose. In MP's case, I think it is literally impossible that he could do so. His appendix would probably explode. In MM's case it's possible, but he also really likes to talk, and I don't see a huge benefit to him to fake it here. Pretty risky in case two people really HAD been silenced - then we'd know that one of the 3 not talking was faking. Therefore, if he's faking it then he's most likely Moloch or Big Figure, because that would mean Big Figure didn't send in a kill PM. So that would be either Bubbles missing it, or MM not sending it in to set her up. It seems pretty unlikely to me, especially as I'm leaning civ on MM.

First indication of vote direction:

Scotty, are you still planning on voting Cookie? You said you were waiting for MP to chime in so he'd have a chance to dissuade you, and it seems pretty clear he won't.

Again, I'm anti a Cookie lynch.

Tiny Bubbles logged on today and yet no posts here. Tiny needs to come up big today or I will be very suspicious.

So this does actually bring up the small possibility that Bubbles was silenced, which to me would mean MM were faking. I'll be very interested in who says what after the lynch.

Right now I'm leaning LoRab for my vote, for what I see as a somewhat coasty style and outsized reactions to being brought up. I could probably be convinced to vote MP, but as I said, I'm still a little waffly there.

States an unwillingness to lynch the silenced players:

Host: Can The Comedian use his nightkill on himself, securing his own win?

Except for, well, certain rare exceptions, I do not allow self-targeting, ever. And even if I did, Blake killing himself would not be enough to secure his own win.

So unless this is one of the rare exceptions (which I doubt), he doesn't allow it.

Linki 2: And why wouldn't he be able to be silenced twice by one person? In general, games here have a "no double targeting" rule that applies to consecutive nights only. So silencing MP D4 and D5 would be illegal, but D3 and D5 would be allowed.

Oh, I think you're right. The rule says "twice in a row".

So MP doesn't have to be faking it to be BF.

Still, I have no idea why Derf woul even want to silence him twice.

So putting these things together, MP and MM are both either: A) Not civ or Derf, and each have been silenced twice. By the same person or different people in each case, who knows. Or B) One of them is BF and is faking, and one of the silencers (likely BF, given the missed kill) missed the PM. However, both of these two have clearly been around, so why would either have missed the PM?

Definitely leaning very far away from an MM or MP lynch now. I suppose either could in theory be Moloch, but I'd rather go with someone who has a possibility to be BF or Moloch to increase our chances.

Confirms likelihood of a LoRab vote:

Well, it's one hour left and, realistically, I think five more votes to be made (I'm counting out the silenced, because if they faked it but do show up to vote, they pretty much commit suicide, and TinyBubbles, who is nowhere to be seen). Six with Tiny.

How about we put our top choices on the table? I'm very torn between my first two

- DDL - out of all the hunters, I feel least good about him
- LoRab - out of all the players, I feel least good about her
- third probably Cookie, based on today

I'm very strongly leaning a LoRab vote at this point. Rico, I agree with you that she looks the worst.

DDL, thanks for response. You are indeed stubborn! I suppose I understand your reasoning there, though, that you don't want to be fooled by a faking MP. I personally just find the fake very unlikely at this point, though.

Comment on LoRab not holding her vote until the end for self-protection:

She just dropped the self-preserve vote intentions, though. Does that look slighty better?

I'm not following. Why would a self-preserve intention make her look better? To me it contributes to the story that she's not helping us catch baddies.

And votes:

I'm voting now. 10 minutes left in the poll, which ends a bit earlier than the last one, I think, and I don't see anything changing my mind in that short timespan.

Linki: Ah, I see. Not really, since she's voting someone I feel good about.

VOTE #6: Cookie

Spoiler: show

Initially feels good about LoRab:

I'm not going to do full ISO's on everyone because... ain't nobody got time fo' dat, but I am going to talk about some post with people from what I can remember. I'm sure most of these points have already been addressed, but like MP says, it's crucial we find the final mafia/muloch. I'm also only looking mostly at votes and things I remember from specific days.

MP - I just remembered he was silenced on D2. If he is the final baddie, why would he silence himself on D2? He wasn't under any heat and no one suspected him at this point. D3 and D4, he voted for me and not Espers, who he continually said looked suspicious. D5 he voted for Elo, which I agree, given the evidence against her, was a valid vote.
MetalMarsh - The only things I find strange about MM is his self-vote for D2 and then proceeded to miss the vote the next day. Did MM say why he voted for DDL on D5?
DDL - I think DDL seems civ. There's nothing he has done that speaks volumes to me like the previous two. He did vote for LoRab on D4, which tied the votes between me, Espers, and LoRab. If he was civ, it was a genuine mistake that he tied the votes by voting who he thought was mafia. If he was maf, he would be tying the votes so that Espers did not (hopefully) die. He voted for Elo on D5. If I recall correctly, wasn't DDL one of the ones who was adamant that Elo was civ?
G-Man - I've no idea what to think about him.
LoRab - The last to vote Espers the day that Espers died. Seems civ to me but could just be bussing. Didn't actually secure his death, since the person who voted for Espers before LoRab was securing Espers death unless someone else voted me or LoRab. Could have also been self-preservation, since LoRab knew he/she had suspicions against him/her.
Bass/Tiny - I've no idea what to think about them.
Ricochet - Voted Elo on D1 (or is it D0?) but did not vote Elo when MP and Scotty presented evidence (was he away somewhere?). I don't remember if he was actually online for the discussion of that.
Russtifinko - Was the first to vote for Espers/ika, however, ika was bound to be lynched either that day or the next. Although, being the first, seems civ to me.
Scotty - Seems genuinely sorry for his mistake in voting Elo. He didn't pressure anyone into voting for her, but posted his claims and left it at that. I regard this as a civ move. Nothing else about him gives me baddie vibes.

So I've no idea who I should vote for. My top suspects would be: MP, MM, and LoRab.

Sorry if I get the Day #s mixed up, I couldn't remember if it was called D0 or D1.

Comments on Rico's post, including comments re: LoRab (whom she now seems willing to lynch):

Updates:

TinyBubbles - hasn't played one bit. I have nothing to work with. If she's landed a bad role (BF or Moloch), it'll be a desolate endgame if we lose. Based on Bass' performance, still inclined to call it slightly civ.
Do we need a replacement for the replacement? Lol

Cookie - no change. Offered more reads and ideas in the meantime, out of which the interesting thing I got was her idea of LoRab's vote for ika mirroring a potential bussing of an already toast teammate, the same way espers bussed Sloonei when it was half clear he'll get lynched; that, combined with the defense of voting in self-preservation, can constitute a bit of blending. She's [Cookie, that is] a bit more comfortable handing out civ tags than I personally am, but fine, at least there's something to take note of her views on everyone else. Her top current suspects, assuming a vote would materialize from them, are LoRab (ok), MP (she said she won't vote for him, though) and MM (she only found two strange things in his gameplay, yet is putting him at the top? sounds a bit comfy). Keeping a close eye on her.
I said I would not vote MP in the night so that I didn't get killed for saying I would vote for him, considering I think he is the final mafia. I am most likely to vote for MP today unless I am convinced someone else is mafia given other theories or if others are willing (and do) vote for LoRab. MM is silenced and I remember people saying it's not really fair to vote for silenced players.

DDL - no improvement from previous read, in fact I actually feel worse about him. He ended up D4 calling MP scum and ISO'd the hell out of him on N4, but the next Day it all kinda vanished. He acknowledge a bit of his ISO was inaccurate, but was that really enough to take the pedal off him? I don't think it was ever clear, if so. States several times - in real time with MP's case on Eloh, furthermore - that he doesn't find Elo to be Big Figure, only to return and find MP's and Scotty's arguments convincing. Nothing inherently bad with that, since I myself found some of those angles interesting indeed (plus Eloh's whole gameplay truly awful), but this feels too flexible and non-committal, compared to the DDL that hunted and challenged hard on his own. (Golden, D2; DH, D3; MP, D4) I don't like this. Considering a vote for DDL today.
Now that you mention it, that's a good point about DDL, who previously was dead set on his reads and opinions, but was easily way in the vote with Elo.

G-Man - no change, I think. Also, check Scotty for a bit more speculation on him.

LoRab - Hasn't been really into the game since D4, when she mostly focused on defending herself and getting herself out of being lynched. I don't remember hearing a suspect from her apart from G-Man the first three days. Oh, you prefer sticking with your leads, rather than being in the loop with others? "Frankly dear..." No change from what I already wrote about her. I'm sorry, but just like with Eloh (even if she was good), you will seriously have to tell how am I supposed to trust LoRab. I'm feeling she's completely detached from the main events and it only makes me more wary. I wouldn't mind voting her today.
She has been voting for G-Man every chance she gets (could be a way to stay off of Rorschach's list, since no one else was willing to vote for him to the extent she did). She also doesn't seem to have considered anyone else?

MM

Day 1: 2nd vote for Ninja (Ninja at 2, all the other eventual wagons not even commenced)
Day 2: self-votes because he's MM and AWOL (first vote of the Day as well, will end up in a tie with Golden and survive)
Day 3: misses vote
Day 4: 1st vote for LoRab, on her being opportunistic and tunneling with her votes (first vote of the Day as well, LoRab will end up with three votes, tied with Cookie, ika will get lynched with 5)
Day 5: only vote for DDL, on his Moloch speculation and profiling him as Moloch (you guessed it, first vote of the Day)

Interactions with confirmed Mafia members

Sloonei - allocates an "ike" emoticon to him; admits voting alongside Sloonei, but for simple reasons of voting anyone; later comments on LC's theories of Eloh being Sloonei's teammate; defends himself against Scotty by not actually defending much and agreeing his vote followed Sloonei's (WIFOM planting?)

espers - allocates espers a "mole rat" emoticon; absolutely nothing else
ika - recommends to him to vote LoRab

Read: Enigma. Earlier I thought his banter and fluffing was coming off baddish, but it's hardly a tenth of the stuff he usually pulls; he's far more detached than that. His lack of confrontation with the field, as well as total lack of interaction or read on the confirmed Mafia members (whether distancing or not), doesn't bring in mind the baddie profile I had of him, either. His only semblance of a real case was on LoRab, but then he didn't seem to care about it anymore the next Day. The only pattern I could speculate on (tin-foil-style, let's say) is that his acknowledging of his D1 being close to Sloonei's would be WIFOM planting, and that his suggestion to ika to "simply vote LoRab" could be dastardly buddying (although ika never paid attention to him, so it's probably just banter). His latest speculation is that DDL is Moloch, because it fits the profile of a dormant baddie who hunts a lot to look good. But wouldn't the angle of a dormant Moloch who doesn't do anything also seem plausible? His dismissal of G-Man's suspicions on him, openly saying he doesn't care one bit if he'd get voted by him, could also be notable.
I have no idea where to place MM - yeah, bet you've never heard that before - I'm not too sure he could be the last Inmate and his detachment makes me think the odds are: 60% he's just MM, 30% he's Moloch, 10% he's - yeah, I'll say it* - an unlynchable** Manhattan who also gives no fucks about what happens (MM could have rezz'd Scotty to amend for the D1 banter they had; or for the lulz).

*this is pure speculation, please treat it as such; I've checked with Epig before to see if I'm allowed to make such a specific speculation; if you find it unplausible, think back to Death Note (if you've played it); **I'm not sure Epig's deist views of designing a mafia game would allow for an overpowered, unlynchable Manhattan, but still...he was overpowered and unkillable in the comics and the Watchmen, as far as it's shown, are fairly designed up to lore

Russtifinko

Day 1 - 2nd vote for G-Man, finding his wording strange (Sloonei at 4, Ninja at 3)
Day 2 - misses vote
Day 3 - misses vote
Day 4 - 1st vote for ika, for behavior (tied with LoRab)
Day 2 - 2nd vote for MP, to keep binary lynch close (brings MP at 2, with Eloh at 3)

Interactions with confirmed Mafia members

Sloonei - indirectly considers llama's points on him having merits (Sloonei's defensiveness being off-putting)
espers - considers his D1 vote the most suspicious, but find there's need to develop his view further; then finds him "above-board" for content; finds him safe vote for D3, although based only on his stated suspicious (which he considers not to be much); D4, keeps espers as mild suspicion; then (at Scotty's inquiry), considers him top read; votes ika for behavior; profiles last teammate as somebody who didn't buss espers on D3, but did on D4

Read: I'm not getting any strong bad vibe from browsing his posts, especially since he got more engaged in the game - he's going deep into reading, relying on gut and meta, participating and challenging others with reads etc. - but some of the interaction above is spotty, just like with many others. He consented to the general view on Sloonei, finding his defensiveness off-putting the way llama put it, but he focused otherwise on Eloh and G-Man and voted late for the latter, in a lynch train that was hardly relevant (despite G-Man's actions being a hot topic). It sounds reasonable, but it's also susceptible to a tin foil version of planting a suspicion on Sloonei to look good, then act in different directions. Just like with Bass, I will be absolutely floored if Russ would turn out to have been part of a surviving Mafia (alongside espers) which totally slacked off almost two Days in a row. His "mild suspicions" on espers, that failed to materialize into a vote until D4, have been brought up before and it was what he started getting some heat for. His early vote for ika technically makes him look good, but since ika totally bombed his exit, it's still believable that he would have been bussed without hesitation. His defense for Eloh makes me feel better, overall. As I've said, I'm reading a Russ who is putting a good game since he got into it for good. I can't decide at the moment how strongly, apart from the shoddy details mentioned above, I suspect him.

Scotty

Day 1 - Votes Eloh (vote hardly relevant within the eventual dynamic of the lynch: Sloonei currently at 1, Ninja at 2, G-Man also having a vote)
Day 4 - 1st vote for Cookie (ties her with LoRab and ika)
Day 5 - 2nd vote for Eloh, finds her very likely Big Figure (Eloh at 2, DDL at 1)

Interactions with confirmed Mafia members

Sloonei - wasn't pinged by his game; anything else is in context with other reads or discussions

espers - inquires him on reads; talk about D0 results; the rest is in context with other reads, discussion, other players' reads on espers; agrees the replacement is very suspicious; adds ika to his lynch options, based on MP and Russ reads

Scotty is hunting and failing so far, something that he himself acknowledged after the Eloh fail. I'm naturally inclined not to suspect mislynchers right off the bat (being a grave one myself, usually) and most of Scotty's hunting doesn't look to be superficial, tunneling or fake to me. His lack of Sloonei ping and odd voting got him in trouble after D1, to which him being NK'd is a strong indicator that it couldn't have been a sacrifice within the Mafia team. That being said, his shallow surface direct reads on the confirmed Mafia members, compared to always bringing other players in context with them, is pretty undesirable. I will say this, I will basically flip barking mad if Manhattan screwed up and resurrected a baddie Scotty (either Inmate or Moloch), because it feels like a defenseless situation to deal with. His death and rezz doesn't exonerate him from the odds of being bad, but I cannot say I'm getting bad vibes from him right now. I'm noticing a lot of focus from him on G-Man and I'm wondering if there's not something subtle about it; he seems to try to find a bad angle on everything G-Man is doing, even that D3 vote situation, which I personally still can't wrap my head around as being indicative of G-Man being bad - this may be slight tunnel-ish, but I makes me wonder all the more if Scotty isn't aware of something.

In case you're wondering where's the read on MP, hol' up for a few more hours. I'm probably risking again to drag my reads (and my sanity) near to the late deadline hours, but in case I'll feel that'll be the case, I'll focus right away on a shorter version and provide it.

I've responded in pink. I agree with your analysis of Russ and Scotty.

Answers to Scotty:

I'm on my phone again, so I'm not quoting anything, but this in response to @Cookie, point by point

-fair enough about your read of MP during the night phase. Though I'm usually in the camp of letting things out in all phases, I completely understand the reasoning of not revealing too much at night for fear of NK.
But your reasoning the next day was sparse at best, so I don't necessarily see a connection between your fear of being NK'd and your openness during the day.
My openness during day is because I'm not fearful of being killed in the night with no capability of defending myself.

-cheering up sad MP: awwww ok I'll let this pass
- on my read of your reads and is it mocking? Well, it might read as inherently mocking, though I define mocking as the intent of getting a negative emotional response out of someone. If that's the case, I apologize. That's just how I read your reads, nothing more than that.
-thinking Mp is mafia- ok. I just can't help but wonder what you're thinking when you point out something suspicious and in the same breath counter yourself with a positive viewpoint. I think that's just my personality? See the bright side of things. Give the benefit of the doubt.

This one is BS-
-your skipped the first 2 days because your friend wasn't playing? So that's why you don't have a read on GMan or Bass? I don't believe that for a second. I seem to remember you finding the "in-topic" button underneath player names to look through people's history. The thread is here. I was literally DEAD for 2 days and I can still read through all the garbage of those days to get at least a viewpoint.
This what I wrote:

"I don't remember anything he's posted. I skipped over reading the first 2 days or so because I was annoyed that Sloonei was being lynched (not becuase I am mafia with him, but because he is my good friend and I was looking forward to playing a game with him). And the thread moved too fast, so I couldn't remember who posted what. It's only been the past 3 days where I've gotten to know all of the living posters, their style of posting, their image, etc."

I was going to give up on the game and be replaced because I wanted to join him in a different game. In my post I've quoted, I also mentioned the thread was moving too fast to keep up with.

I'm rather new to mafia myself, and don't really know how anyone plays either (except like 3-4 people, though I don't know if they are civ in mafia in BoB). Maybe I'm just more intuitive than the normal person with how forums work but I find it hard to believe even if you're just getting used to these people's play styles, it exempts you from having an opinion either way.
Could it be that your teammate was lynched first day and you so became overwhelmed with your sudden responsibility of being on your own, posting thru your own merits, that you didn't know how to get a good grip on the game? That's pure speculation, which you're entitled to. But I don't know what you expect me to say here.
I don't know where you come from, and I don't know how your compatriots usually play there. But I don't see the excuse of your friend not playing as valid even in that home forum.

-if you listed your top suspects, you claim it should appear that you think they are mafia: that's not completely right, and your reasoning was weak at best. With no clear read on potential mafia, adding people to that suspect list holds little merit, IMHO.

-How do you know espers left for RL reasons? I don't remember anyone posting that reasoning, let alone him.I'm assuming this because why else would he leave with no explanation unless he was leaving because of being lynched out? Regardless, he wasn't interested in playing this game, so I doubt he'd be interesting in helping out the final mafia.

Tries to explain that answer better to LoRab:

-How do you know espers left for RL reasons? I don't remember anyone posting that reasoning, let alone him.I'm assuming this because why else would he leave with no explanation unless he was leaving because of being lynched out? Regardless, he wasn't interested in playing this game, so I doubt he'd be interesting in helping out the final mafia.

Wait, what?!

Let me rephrase:
I'm assuming Espers left (got replaced) for RL reasons. Why else would he leave without an explanation? The only other alternative I can think of is if he left because he was going to be lynched. It didn't seem like he was interested in playing the game so why would he be interested in helping out the final mafia?

Snippy response to her explanation being called an excuse?:

An excuse for what? Someone said that I was likely being helped from Sloonei/Espers from the grave and those are my reasons why that's unlikely.

Vote me if you feel that warrants a vote for me. Keep in mind, if I am lynched, we will only have 2 more days to lynch the inmate and Moloch.

Then follows up with this when called out on the above comment:

I just went by whatever DDL/MP said. They said whatever lylo is, meaning we had 2 or 3 days? I've no idea what lylo is - I haven't googled it.

Now she's indecisive but considering MP again (almost missed this with my ctrl + f for "lorab"):

I haven't decided between LoRad or MP.

Votes LoRab because she's able to talk:

I voted LoRab because I don't think it's fair to vote the other two people who I was suspicious of: MM and MP. Both seem to be silenced and I don't like that they can't talk about it.

VOTE #7: G-Man

Spoiler: show

All of my posts from Day 6 (pre-vote) in order:

To whoever sent me the ciphered message: thanks for reaching out to me but I cannot figure your message out. Weekends are horrible for me to devote more than 10% of my time to mafia, so I'll try to decode your message if I can find time. Sorry to disappoint you.

To whoever sent me the ciphered message: thanks for reaching out to me but I cannot figure your message out. Weekends are horrible for me to devote more than 10% of my time to mafia, so I'll try to decode your message if I can find time. Sorry to disappoint you.

What message? I think it's the second time I'm hearing a player receiving some "info" he has to crack during the Night, after Eloh.

I received it Night 4, and used it to inform some of my reads. I'd like to think it's Ozymandias giving us hints.

Otherwise, we're just being duped by the magician.

Elo received a message Night 3.

Right now I'm just trying to figure out how the cipher works.

As for the rest of the game goes... I find myself unfortunately fixated on MP07. I feel very strongly that he is Big Figure given his D1 shift on Sloonei, the way he subtly criticized a few votes on espers, and his bet with me. I think he made a cheater's bet- he knew he was going to lose it when I called him on it because losing the bet makes him look bad and allows him to act all contrite and tail-between-the-legs. That outcome and ensuing behavior should, in theory, give us pause.

I realize, however, that I often try to come up with the most evil, underhanded, and complex theories possible due to my overactive imagination.

I don't really know where to look after him. That will require some time re-reading a few people and further analysis in my spreadsheets.

Tiny Bubbles logged on today and yet no posts here. Tiny needs to come up big today or I will be very suspicious.

Really tired of screwing around with the darn


Still not sure how I'll vote.

Sorry I wasn't in the game today. We've been prepping the spare bedroom for our daughter to move into. Baby 2.0 will be evicting her from the nursery in approximately 3 months. Reviewing quick.

Oh this scenario is almost too delicious to be true. Decisions decisions.

I don't feel the need to protect either of the two players with 2 votes.

But I don't feel the need to vote for them either.

[G-Man]

Reading over all that, I reach the following stances on the remaining players (this one's for you, MP07!):

G-Man

MM89
Ricochet

Made/TinyB/Bass
Russtifinko
Scotty

Dragon
LoRab

Cookie

[Dragon D. Luffy]

G-Man, are you planning on explaining that image you posted?

[G-Man]

G-Man, are you planning on explaining that image you posted?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Dude, I didn't get whatever pun you thought were obvious enough that everybody would get. Deal with it.

[G-Man]

Dude, I didn't get whatever pun you thought were obvious enough that everybody would get. Deal with it.

I don't want anyone to tell you what it meant. I want you to figure it out for yourself. It's all about context.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

"Pin down"?

Still don't know why you said that.

[G-Man]

"Pin down"?

Still don't know why you said that.

Close but no cigar.

And now for something completely relevant:
Did anyone look through my posts regarding the votes? I tried to include any mentions of who each player voted for. Quite a few people looked good. I'm curious if anyone thinks better or worse of any other players because of those posts.

[LoRab]

Sorry, Made, this is not looking good for you.

No kidding! He's not even on the poll.

He is, actually.

For the record, I don't think Big Figure forgot to send a kill in on Night 5, not if he still managed to silence/voteblock a player.

Assuming that all players who seemed silenced were actually silenced.

Anyway, I did some reads at players posts.

LoRab keeps giving me the feeling that she's not playing the game. Almost every post he made was self-defense. Self-defense is okay, but does not help anybody except herself. Other than that, there's the G-Man tunneling, and a couple small suspicions that have stayed the same for the whole game yet she hasn't bothered to engage those players or discuss those suspicions too much. She seems more interested in discussing game mechanics, and again, defending herself.

For example, I'm aware she thinks G-Man is suspicious, but it's Day 7 and I still can't name one reason for her suspicion other than the day 1 LD thing. She agreed with a post I made but didn't say anything more than that. When promped to name her suspects, she finally said she suspected MM and Cookie, but that felt more like something forced than an actual attempt to hunt mafia. Like "hey people, look how I'm naming suspects" - <goes back to defending herself>

And that's her problem, she doesn't feel like someone who's hunting mafia. Just an spectator.

As for Cookie, she's all over the place. Her civ/mafia change with the speed of light, her votes are made for sudden, and questionable reasons and he has that aura of noobiness that goesn't go away. She seems to be trying harder the last few phases, which is good, but her attempts to try harder are still weird as fuck. And a lot of her posts feel like she's just following other people and repeating what they say. Not that following others is necessarily bad, but the way she does it feels forced sometimes. She does have an early vote for ika, which makes her less likely BF, though. I can see myself voting for her because I can't give her a pass forever, but I can easily see her being legit. But at least she feels like she's trying, and posting suspects by her own will unlike LoRab who seems like she only does it when she's forced to.

Finally, there's G-Man, who I already elaborated on and am not going to do it again so soon. To sum it up, he also seems detatched, but in a more calculated way. But he's also a pretty random guy who is difficult to read, so I'm not sure about lynching him at this point.

So I feel like voting LoRab today.

If you actually read my posts, I've been naming people here and there. I don't like making big long posts about people--I find it rarely convinces anyone of anything, other than myself. And why change my opinion when I've had no reason to change my opinion? Yes, my suspicions have remained consistent. Not sure how that makes me bad? And if you actually read my posts, I don't only mention names when prompted.

I'm sorry I seem like a spectator to you. But every time I've mentioned my reasons for suspecting people, I've been told I'm wrong in the way I think through things (see day 1). And yes, I've defended a lot--it's what I do when I'm accused.

I've been playing this game for a while. I think about things different than a lot of people do. It works for me. I've evolved a style. I'm sorry if you don't like that style, or that it seems like I'm not trying to catch baddies because I don't do it the way you do, but I'm not going to change the way I figure out games because it makes me seem suspicious.

For the record, I don't think Big Figure forgot to send a kill in on Night 5, not if he still managed to silence/voteblock a player.

Thanks for the remiinder on this, MM. I saw no kill and was about to go all gung ho for a Made lynch. However, it seems there is something besides missed PMs though, since the silence went through. Almost looks to me like someone is doing a very underwhelming job of framing Made.

Do you think Bernard would suspect himself?

I'm not convinced Bernard wrote the list.

And, still, more suspects than possible slots.

Why would Bernard not write the list! It literally says "From Bernard" at the top. It really doesn't get any clearer than that.

Like I said, when I mention things, others tell me I'm wrong in how I'm thinking about things. I wonder about this particular post because that is literally all that is in the post, and because another role, whose description we do not know, is named in the title.

And something saying it's "from so and so" does not necessarily mean it is. I'm just throwing considerations out there.

@Russ: on the Bernard thing, I care because I want to remove suspects from my list. We are approaching the end game and it's a good thing if we can nail the final mafia by a proccess of elimination.

How does Bernard naming people eliminate people from suspicion? He only has a limited amount of information, and from a player who has been dead for a few days now. so, really, just as much speculation at this point as the rest of us.

Sorry for typos, I'm on my phone.

Anyway, I mentioned earlier that I though LoRab's vote was curious because I felt he didn't want to be responsible for lynching a civ so he voted to make it a 3 way tie.

For this reason and others I think my vote will go to LoRab (my phone keep autocorrecting it to Logan) but I am going to wait until I get home at around 7:30 to thoroughly read the thread and vote.

What? When did I create a 3 way tie?

Also, LoRab probably didn't pay much attention to this, but all of Bernard's messages were presented according to the theme on the Day/Night post, from being recorded in a video (during Ozy's cycle) to taking the shape of an investigative report or something (?) (during Comedian's cycle), a note or letter (during Silk Spectre's) and finally the Manhattan broadcast just now. So yeah, it's from Bernard, alright.

Actually, I did notice that. I notice small details. It's sort of my thing. That and twirling.

I might not post in the way y'all are used to on this forum, but I really do actually pay attention.

[G-Man]

Also, LoRab probably didn't pay much attention to this, but all of Bernard's messages were presented according to the theme on the Day/Night post, from being recorded in a video (during Ozy's cycle) to taking the shape of an investigative report or something (?) (during Comedian's cycle), a note or letter (during Silk Spectre's) and finally the Manhattan broadcast just now. So yeah, it's from Bernard, alright.

Actually, I did notice that. I notice small details. It's sort of my thing. That and twirling.

I might not post in the way y'all are used to on this forum, but I really do actually pay attention.

I honestly did not notice this. Maybe it's because I'm not familiar with the source material. Not sure if I should be or not.

[Ricochet]

Also, LoRab probably didn't pay much attention to this, but all of Bernard's messages were presented according to the theme on the Day/Night post, from being recorded in a video (during Ozy's cycle) to taking the shape of an investigative report or something (?) (during Comedian's cycle), a note or letter (during Silk Spectre's) and finally the Manhattan broadcast just now. So yeah, it's from Bernard, alright.

Actually, I did notice that. I notice small details. It's sort of my thing. That and twirling.

So you did notice that Bernard's messages are shaped according to the theme of the host post, but decided to speculate that the message might not be Bernard's, anyway?

[Russtifinko]

G+Man, yes, the exclamation points are supposed to be question marks. I hadn't found the correct button on the keyboard yet.

At least you've shown you were consistent with your MP suspicion. However, you still severely misrepresented what went on at the end of yesterday's poll. You were the last vote and you knew it, and now you're acting like it was some major shock that two people were blocked and an absentee player didn't vote. THAT'S what you said was disappointing, not the result.

And I just had a thought: you said MP probably made a fool's bet, knowing he'd lose because he was bad, and looking dumb would make him seem more civ. I think maybe you made a dirty bet. Itäs a win+win for you: you get the huge victorious sig, make MP look silly, and get to say to the thread: "hey look, I was protecting civs, guys! I can't be bad!"

You're also making up stuff about a silencer probably being gone to throw shade at MM, when every indication is that both silencers are alive and well. You're looking more and more like BF to me.

Do others think all this is weird, or am I alone here?

DDL, the picture doesnät matter as far as the game. It's just an idiom.

Linki: LoRab, on your point to DDL, he wasn't trying to eliminate the people Bernard named from suspicion. He was trying to figure out who Bernard himself was and eliminate that player from suspicion.
And Rico, your last post is exactly what I was thinking.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

No word from Scotty or Made yet. The later is probably just catching up, but I fear the former may have been silenced.

[Ricochet]

Ninja'd by DDL about Scotty. He feared he'll be NK'd, but may have gotten this instead. Considering he's been fixated on Cookie, it's meant either to make sure it's one vote less for her today or frame her to look even more suspicious.

Made posted in the Freddy Drogo game earlier.

[Russtifinko]

We've yet to hear from MM as well, right?

[Ricochet]

You're also making up stuff about a silencer probably being gone to throw shade at MM, when every indication is that both silencers are alive and well. You're looking more and more like BF to me.

Do others think all this is weird, or am I alone here?

I don't know, the last time we've seen signs of silencing (prior to D6) was D3, when Long Con confirmed it and MM hinted at it. Everyone posted D4 and D5. Only LC and juliets were killed in that time, in case Derf was actually struck down.

I thought the other Day that MM's silencing seemed really genuine, because it copied Roxy's method from a past game (a cheeky way to say FU to the silencer by spamming all the other sections but the one you're forbidden from; it was called the "loudest silencing"). But this kind of copy is, in itself, interpretable, come to think it. It certainly wasn't original, so there is a chance it might have been fake as well.

Are there any other indications of both Derf and BF being alive, for you?

linki: no, he posted today

[G-Man]

G+Man, yes, the exclamation points are supposed to be question marks. I hadn't found the correct button on the keyboard yet.

At least you've shown you were consistent with your MP suspicion. However, you still severely misrepresented what went on at the end of yesterday's poll. You were the last vote and you knew it, and now you're acting like it was some major shock that two people were blocked and an absentee player didn't vote. THAT'S what you said was disappointing, not the result.

And I just had a thought: you said MP probably made a fool's bet, knowing he'd lose because he was bad, and looking dumb would make him seem more civ. I think maybe you made a dirty bet. Itäs a win+win for you: you get the huge victorious sig, make MP look silly, and get to say to the thread: "hey look, I was protecting civs, guys! I can't be bad!"

You're also making up stuff about a silencer probably being gone to throw shade at MM, when every indication is that both silencers are alive and well. You're looking more and more like BF to me.

Do others think all this is weird, or am I alone here?

DDL, the picture doesnät matter as far as the game. It's just an idiom.

Linki: LoRab, on your point to DDL, he wasn't trying to eliminate the people Bernard named from suspicion. He was trying to figure out who Bernard himself was and eliminate that player from suspicion.
And Rico, your last post is exactly what I was thinking.

I didn't know Tiny Bubbles was going to miss the vote. How could I know that? Him missing the vote is nothing more than logical conjecture. No, I think the result is disappointing, thank you. I know what I think in my head. You don't. With one Inmate left, there's not much to learn from the order or placement of votes. Watch:

1) Dragon: Casts the first stone because he thinks he sees overwhelming evidence on MP07.
2) Scotty: Thinks he's cracked how Cookie has navigated the game and her back-and-forth with him only makes him more certain.
3) LoRab: Calls it a gut vote after a comment or two makes her go
4) Ricochet: Came into the day suspicious of Dragon- their back-and-forth makes him more certain.
5) Russtifinko: Thinks she's been coasting and on defense too much; doesn't want to vote a silenced player.
6) Cookie: Flips from slight civ read to baddie read and doesn't want to vote a silenced player.
7) G-Man: Keyser Söze sleuthing and he's enough of a jerk to vote for a silenced player at this stage of a game.

The two votes that stand out to me most are LoRab's and Cookie's. LoRab said she would hold her vote until the end but didn't. She actually did cast a self-preservation vote by adding a second vote to Cookie when she herself had zero votes against her. On a day where at least two votes would be missing, it was the smart choice. Adding a second vote on MP07 would look bad for someone under suspicion. Cookie seemed to flip-flop on LoRab and, for lack of a better word, flail around a bit with her posts.

Unfortunately, it doesn't mean anything about either of them. Either of their behavior could be explained by either of them being Moloch for all we know. It's time for the long game approach. If we're hunting for Big Figure, then we need to take who we suspect and make sure we can explain it through their votes and their actions. If we're just "baddie hunting" for Big Figure or Moloch, I got nothing.

Also, I'm not making stuff up about the silencing aspect of the game. I'm just thinking out loud because sometimes my paranoid ideas actually lead me in the right direction.

[Russtifinko]

You're also making up stuff about a silencer probably being gone to throw shade at MM, when every indication is that both silencers are alive and well. You're looking more and more like BF to me.

Do others think all this is weird, or am I alone here?

I don't know, the last time we've seen signs of silencing (prior to D6) was D3, when Long Con confirmed it and MM hinted at it. Everyone posted D4 and D5. Only LC and juliets were killed in that time, in case Derf was actually struck down.

I thought the other Day that MM's silencing seemed really genuine, because it copied Roxy's method from a past game (a cheeky way to say FU to the silencer by spamming all the other sections but the one you're forbidden from; it was called the "loudest silencing"). But this kind of copy is, in itself, interpretable, come to think it. It certainly wasn't original, so there is a chance it might have been fake as well.

Are there any other indications of both Derf and BF being alive, for you?

linki: no, he posted today

Ok, thanks Rico. Weird that everyone posted D4 and 5, I appreciate you checking that for me. I don't have any other indications that Derf is alive; two silences were it. In the case of BF, Epi has always posted messages saying when a faction is eliminated, so I don't have direct in game evidence there, but a very strong host tendency.

It's SO STRANGE to me that Derf and BF would not silence D4 and 5 and then silence D6 and 7. Like, it makes no sense whatsoever. And if MM faked yesterday, it's starting to look like someone is faking today too. Which would be either really extremely ballsy or the height of stupidity.

Maybe I'm grasping at straws with the GMan thing, I dunno. Given all this, I'm gonna go ahead and vote LoRab. She hasn't managed to improve my opinion of her, my access will be spotty this evening, and I'm unsure enough on GMan that I need to give him at least one more day of scrutiny.

[LoRab]

You are wrong about me. But if you really believe that any of my behavior makes me bad, then I can't really convince you otherwise.

Also, LoRab probably didn't pay much attention to this, but all of Bernard's messages were presented according to the theme on the Day/Night post, from being recorded in a video (during Ozy's cycle) to taking the shape of an investigative report or something (?) (during Comedian's cycle), a note or letter (during Silk Spectre's) and finally the Manhattan broadcast just now. So yeah, it's from Bernard, alright.

Actually, I did notice that. I notice small details. It's sort of my thing. That and twirling.

So you did notice that Bernard's messages are shaped according to the theme of the host post, but decided to speculate that the message might not be Bernard's, anyway?

Again, post title seemed possibly worded differently and used the Watchmen name directly (not the name on the street guy name). also, "Word from Dr Manhattan" kind of implies that there may be a word from, IDK, Dr Manhattan. A role we know pretty much nothing about.

If you're going to question my ability to play and understand this game, at least read what I've said.

I question everything in mafia and take very little for granted.

Linki: LoRab, on your point to DDL, he wasn't trying to eliminate the people Bernard named from suspicion. He was trying to figure out who Bernard himself was and eliminate that player from suspicion.
And Rico, your last post is exactly what I was thinking.

That's making quite an assumption in Bernard never having named himself.

And your thinking about me indicates that you have no idea how to read me.

[G-Man]

I'm going to have to think on this and decide between Cookie and Dragon. My spreadsheet is telling me that LoRab's Day 2 vote was too attention-drawing for a baddie. Indie perhaps, but not a baddie.

[Russtifinko]

I'm going to have to think on this and decide between Cookie and Dragon. My spreadsheet is telling me that LoRab's Day 2 vote was too attention-drawing for a baddie. Indie perhaps, but not a baddie.

You keep bringing up this spreadsheet, and it actually seems like a damned good one. Anything else from it you can share?

And LoRab, it's not making any assumptions at all. DDL was asking whether people think Bernard would have named himself, not saying that he did. Anyway, I'm not gonna put words into his mouth. If you don't get what he was saying, you should either ask him or read the exchange again.

Clearly I don't know how to read you. It's our first game together. You seem bad to me. If I'm wrong, help me get it right so we can win.

[Ricochet]

LoRab, you don't seem to understand.

I'm not the one who doesn't know how to read you.

You're the one who doesn't know how to read me!!!

[LoRab]

I'm going to have to think on this and decide between Cookie and Dragon. My spreadsheet is telling me that LoRab's Day 2 vote was too attention-drawing for a baddie. Indie perhaps, but not a baddie.

You keep bringing up this spreadsheet, and it actually seems like a damned good one. Anything else from it you can share?

And LoRab, it's not making any assumptions at all. DDL was asking whether people think Bernard would have named himself, not saying that he did. Anyway, I'm not gonna put words into his mouth. If you don't get what he was saying, you should either ask him or read the exchange again.

Clearly I don't know how to read you. It's our first game together. You seem bad to me. If I'm wrong, help me get it right so we can win.

right, I guess I just don't see it as possible to narrow down a list at all, when that hinges on the fact that we don't know if not being named is any indication.

And I'm not bad. I don't know how to help you to get it right. Apparently, defending myself makes me seem suspicious, since a number of people have mentioned that I keep defending myself as a reason for suspecting me.

I know I'm not bad. I don't know how to convince anyone else of that.

I'm not sure where I'm voting at this point. And the fact that I may need to vote to save myself may determine where my vote does go.

I continue to find cookie increasingly suspicious, and in a vacuum, would probably place my vote there.

linkitis: No, I understand. And why was that sarcastic?

[G-Man]

I'm going to have to think on this and decide between Cookie and Dragon. My spreadsheet is telling me that LoRab's Day 2 vote was too attention-drawing for a baddie. Indie perhaps, but not a baddie.

You keep bringing up this spreadsheet, and it actually seems like a damned good one. Anything else from it you can share?

And LoRab, it's not making any assumptions at all. DDL was asking whether people think Bernard would have named himself, not saying that he did. Anyway, I'm not gonna put words into his mouth. If you don't get what he was saying, you should either ask him or read the exchange again.

Clearly I don't know how to read you. It's our first game together. You seem bad to me. If I'm wrong, help me get it right so we can win.

My spreadsheet is mostly just paranoid about Made/Tiny Bubbles/Bass because Golden the Coward used a stretch of missed votes and a substitution to fleece us in Economics.

My spreadsheet also clears Scotty of being Big Figure unless the details of Epi's Day and Night posts cannot be trusted.

Neither MetalMarsh nor Made/TinyBubbles/Bass have voted for anyone who has been lynched. By that I mean that none of the players they have voted for so far have been lynched:
MM89: D1=Niju (NK'd); D2=MM89 (Alive); D3=No Vote; D4=LoRab (alive); D5=Dragon (alive); D6=No Vote
Made et al.: D1=Scotty (NK'd & rezzed); D2=MM89 (alive); D3-6=No Vote

My spreadsheet also suggests that Rorschach is dead because he hasn't killed anyone on his hit list.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

@LoRab: He was quoting a line from Watchmen.

[LoRab]

@LoRab: He was quoting a line from Watchmen.

totally don't remember that line. Alas.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I'm going to have to think on this and decide between Cookie and Dragon. My spreadsheet is telling me that LoRab's Day 2 vote was too attention-drawing for a baddie. Indie perhaps, but not a baddie.

You keep bringing up this spreadsheet, and it actually seems like a damned good one. Anything else from it you can share?

And LoRab, it's not making any assumptions at all. DDL was asking whether people think Bernard would have named himself, not saying that he did. Anyway, I'm not gonna put words into his mouth. If you don't get what he was saying, you should either ask him or read the exchange again.

Clearly I don't know how to read you. It's our first game together. You seem bad to me. If I'm wrong, help me get it right so we can win.

right, I guess I just don't see it as possible to narrow down a list at all, when that hinges on the fact that we don't know if not being named is any indication.

And I'm not bad. I don't know how to help you to get it right. Apparently, defending myself makes me seem suspicious, since a number of people have mentioned that I keep defending myself as a reason for suspecting me.

I know I'm not bad. I don't know how to convince anyone else of that.

I'm not sure where I'm voting at this point. And the fact that I may need to vote to save myself may determine where my vote does go.

I continue to find cookie increasingly suspicious, and in a vacuum, would probably place my vote there.

linkitis: No, I understand. And why was that sarcastic?

It's not the fact you are defending yourself. Everybody is doing that. It's that you're doing little else.

Scrap every post where you defend yourself and every post where you talk about roles and game mechanics, and there will be very little left.

You are not hunting mafia. And I believe that's the #1 sign of not being civ player.

I want to leave the computer for a while and I don't wanna go back and find a lot to catch up before voting, so I'm voting now. Goodbye, LoRab.

[LoRab]

I'm going to have to think on this and decide between Cookie and Dragon. My spreadsheet is telling me that LoRab's Day 2 vote was too attention-drawing for a baddie. Indie perhaps, but not a baddie.

You keep bringing up this spreadsheet, and it actually seems like a damned good one. Anything else from it you can share?

And LoRab, it's not making any assumptions at all. DDL was asking whether people think Bernard would have named himself, not saying that he did. Anyway, I'm not gonna put words into his mouth. If you don't get what he was saying, you should either ask him or read the exchange again.

Clearly I don't know how to read you. It's our first game together. You seem bad to me. If I'm wrong, help me get it right so we can win.

right, I guess I just don't see it as possible to narrow down a list at all, when that hinges on the fact that we don't know if not being named is any indication.

And I'm not bad. I don't know how to help you to get it right. Apparently, defending myself makes me seem suspicious, since a number of people have mentioned that I keep defending myself as a reason for suspecting me.

I know I'm not bad. I don't know how to convince anyone else of that.

I'm not sure where I'm voting at this point. And the fact that I may need to vote to save myself may determine where my vote does go.

I continue to find cookie increasingly suspicious, and in a vacuum, would probably place my vote there.

linkitis: No, I understand. And why was that sarcastic?

It's not the fact you are defending yourself. Everybody is doing that. It's that you're doing little else.

Scrap every post where you defend yourself and every post where you talk about roles and game mechanics, and there will be very little left.

You are not hunting mafia. And I believe that's the #1 sign of not being civ player.

I want to leave the computer for a while and I don't wanna go back and find a lot to catch up before voting, so I'm voting now. Goodbye, LoRab.

roles and game mechanics ARE how I hunt mafia. I am absolutely hunting mafia. It's been what I've been trying to do since day 1.

And if I do get lynched. You'll see that.

[G-Man]

Dragon just nudged into first place on my list. Pondering...

[LoRab]

Dragon just nudged into first place on my list. Pondering...

He seemed to subtly be claiming a role yesterday. At least that is how I was reading some of his posts. Which doesn't necessarily mean he's telling the truth, of course. I can't decide if it would be a good role for mafia to claim or not.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Ok then. It's day 7. Based on roles and game mechanics, who do you think is mafia?

Go.

[LoRab]

Ok then. It's day 7. Based on roles and game mechanics, who do you think is mafia?

Go.

I posted earlier whom I find suspicious. Several times, actually.

[Ricochet]

Ok then. It's day 7. Based on roles and game mechanics, who do you think is mafia?

Go.

I posted earlier whom I find suspicious. Several times, actually.

It's Bernard, right?

In all seriousness, this is her post

My vote will likely go to Made, Cookie, or maybe G-Man (for old time's sake).

Dragon just nudged into first place on my list. Pondering...

He seemed to subtly be claiming a role yesterday. At least that is how I was reading some of his posts. Which doesn't necessarily mean he's telling the truth, of course. I can't decide if it would be a good role for mafia to claim or not.

Have you picked on what he's claiming? I haven't.

[LoRab]

Ok then. It's day 7. Based on roles and game mechanics, who do you think is mafia?

Go.

I posted earlier whom I find suspicious. Several times, actually.

It's Bernard, right?

In all seriousness, this is her post

My vote will likely go to Made, Cookie, or maybe G-Man (for old time's sake).

Dragon just nudged into first place on my list. Pondering...

He seemed to subtly be claiming a role yesterday. At least that is how I was reading some of his posts. Which doesn't necessarily mean he's telling the truth, of course. I can't decide if it would be a good role for mafia to claim or not.

Have you picked on what he's claiming? I haven't.

That is not my only post where I have mentioned players. In all seriousness, because I play differently than you, doesn't mean I don't know how to play nor does it mean that I'm a baddie. I actually do know what I'm doing. And I'm civ.

And well, yes, I picked up what he was claiming. Which is why I mentioned that he seemed to be claiming.

[LoRab]

In all seriousness, this is her post

My vote will likely go to Made, Cookie, or maybe G-Man (for old time's sake).

Also, nice editing out of other content I had in that post to make it seem like I hadn't said anything else on topic and about suspicions.

[Ricochet]

That is your, quote, "earlier" post on whom you find suspicious. You've since reiterated your suspicion on Cookie and that's it.

Mentioning you saw him claiming and saying you picked up what his claiming are two different things and mentioning you saw him claiming cannot be a consequence of picking up on what his claiming. A consequence of picking up what his claiming would be to say you picked up on what his claiming, not that you saw him claiming.

linki:

Ok. Here's the whole post. The topic is your suspicions, not your thoughts. Point your other suspicions in the post.

So no death again...

Sorry, Made, this is not looking good for you.

Other thoughts from the night:

Disappointing result. My being lynched would have been equally disappinting. Not sure a lynch of cookie would have been bad, having voted that way and all.

Thoughs haven't changed since I went to sleep. Hope to survive the night.

You're golden, I think I'm on the chopping block unfortunately.

Shame, because I feel like we really could have eliminated that problem.

So who do you see me is being elimininaed from that problem?

That sentence doesn't make sense.
But I'm talking about cookie

Honestly if I was BF, MP would have died in the NK when he first insisted that I was mafia, I think it was D3 or D4 when he put a lot of heat on me.

Translation: If I was WIFOM, WIFOM would have WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM if I was mafia, WIFOM.

Also, interesting, somewhat subtle role claim from DDL.

My vote will likely go to Made, Cookie, or maybe G-Man (for old time's sake).

[LoRab]

That is your, quote, "earlier" post on whom you find suspicious. You've since reiterated your suspicion on Cookie and that's it.

Mentioning you saw him claiming and saying you picked up what his claiming are two different things and mentioning you saw him claiming cannot be a consequence of picking up on what his claiming. A consequence of picking up what his claiming would be to say you picked up on what his claiming, not that you saw him claiming.

linki:

Ok. Here's the whole post. The topic is your suspicions, not your thoughts. Point your other suspicions in the post.

So no death again...

Sorry, Made, this is not looking good for you.

Other thoughts from the night:

Disappointing result. My being lynched would have been equally disappinting. Not sure a lynch of cookie would have been bad, having voted that way and all.

Thoughs haven't changed since I went to sleep. Hope to survive the night.

You're golden, I think I'm on the chopping block unfortunately.

Shame, because I feel like we really could have eliminated that problem.

So who do you see me is being elimininaed from that problem?

That sentence doesn't make sense.
But I'm talking about cookie

Honestly if I was BF, MP would have died in the NK when he first insisted that I was mafia, I think it was D3 or D4 when he put a lot of heat on me.

Translation: If I was WIFOM, WIFOM would have WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM if I was mafia, WIFOM.

Also, interesting, somewhat subtle role claim from DDL.

My vote will likely go to Made, Cookie, or maybe G-Man (for old time's sake).

Yes, and in it I point out reasons for some of my suspicions...my thoughts and my suspicions aren't really at all different things.

Since some of the players here don't seem to get that, I'll explain my post:

1. I note that Made doesn't look good for there having been no kill
2. Cookie posted what was basically one big WIFOM.
3. I didn't really suspect DDL at that moment because of his role claim. But did think it was an interesting claim to make.
4. The part that you quoted, where I list the folks I'm most likely to vote for.

What in that post isn't about my suspicions?

And I really don't see the significance in what you're saying about claiming. If I saw someone claiming and had no idea what they were claiming, I'd say that. Saying, "Interesting role claim" implies that I understand what that claim was.

Consequence has nothing to do with it. I pointed it out when I saw it; that I found it interesting couldn't be true if I didn't understand the claim.

[LoRab]

I will add the caveat that thinking I've understood a claim and understanding it are not always one and the same. It has been known to happen that I totally misread a claim. But I digress..

I need to go into a board meeting in about 15 minutes. I should be able to check in under the table an pretend to look serious. But I will not have time for lengthy posts. Just a bit of pre-warning.

[Ricochet]

You were asked who do you think is Mafia.

I pointed out who you said you think is Mafia.

You accuse me of editing out content that reflects more on who do you think is Mafia than what I've pointed out.

So your suspicions that I failed to point out in pointing out your suspicions are:

1. Made, whom I pointed out as your suspicion
2. Cookie, whom I pointed as your suspicion
3. DDL, who isn't a suspicion
4. The suspicions that I pointed out as your suspicions



No worries, this concludes me having any more conversations with you, as far as I am concerned.