Battlestar Galactica Mafia - GAME OVER

[DrumBeats]

This surprises me because I recall a certain Prisoner grilling me for a manufactured trap on Nerolunar, and what DrumBeats is doing to Polo is very much the same thing.

There's your first argument against you.

Your treatment of Nero in Turf Wars came in the form of an impossible ultimatum. DrumBeats did not do that. He put a read in the thread.

No sir. DrumBeats said Polo was bad regardless of that outcome of Wilgy's alignment, which can't necessarily be known anyway given this set up. He makes Polo out to be bad no matter what transpires. That was something I would have expected you to jump on, but you didn't. I did instead, and it's weird to me that I have to point it out to you.

I said that I believe him to be bad. That is a read, not an absolute.

[DrumBeats]

I cannot see a way to believe that strongly that he is civ without having this mafia inside knowledge. If anybody else can come up with another way, I would love to hear it..

Sure you can see a way, if you want. It really isn't that hard. A little read, a little thought, a little search, a little logic, and hey presto!

Do you care to actually point me where to look? The only way you have responded is by telling me to look. I have looked at both you and Wilgy's ISO's as well as the lynch itself and I haven't seen anything. If this phantom information is out there, I would like to see it, and if you are unable to directly tell it to me, at least point out where I should look for it. Repeatedly telling me to find it myself does nothing.

[Epignosis]

3J is Cavil. I think he's playing it careful. Lynch him and let's see.

[DrumBeats]

Catching up, since it confused some people last time when I responded to current and old simultaneously, I'm just going to make sure I go chronologically for clarity's sake.

@Drumbeats so, if my guess was right, then I'm mafia to you? That is utterly ridiculous and I'd expect a solid accusation from anyone who doubts my civness.

It's not ridiculous. Mafia likely knows who their teammates are. Civs do not have this type of information. Should Wilgy be town, a mafia member would know the following after the failed lynch:
1) Wilgy is not a mafia cylon
2) Wilgy is a cylon

That would leave a Mafia cylon to know that Wilgy is either a town cylon such as Cap Six or the Leo dude Dex mentioned, or one of the final five. Based on the nature of Wilgy's claim, it was pretty clear that he knew he was a cylon, so that would mean that either the final five twist has started behind the scenes or that he is a town cylon. I cannot see a way to believe that strongly that he is civ without having this mafia inside knowledge. If anybody else can come up with another way, I would love to hear it.

All of the above depends entirely on how Wilgy flips though. If Wilgy flips mafia later, then all of this has no meaning.

However, the bolded and underlined here, I find suspcious. From my experience, scum players are much more likely to get frustrated when they are suspected for reasoning that they find flawed.

Perhaps what I'm saying just make sense? Drumbeats did you judge me based on my postings vs me just being a cylon yet? if so point me to it please.

The primary reason for my judgement is that you are a cylon. Based on what I've heard from the people who know the lore, of our 5 unknown cylons, only two seem like possibilities for civilian roles. This would put you, ignoring behavior, at a 60% likelihood of being mafia.

Then the secondary reasoning is your behavior. My biggest suspicion about it is that you have only started contributing to the thread after you came under fire. I found most of your posts before the lynch happened to be very unhelpful, and reminded me of what I'm seeing from Vompatti, but now that you have burned your immunity and are out in the open you suddenly have begun to actually make comprehensive posts.

Can you explain why that is?

[Polo]

3J is trying to appear neutral and has succeeded.

Epi, one thing is bugging me about you: it's D6. Why did the mafia spare you?

[S~V~S]

Ah but you need to go back and read how I replied to that post of BRs you quoted, Rabbit. I DID think all cylons were bad at the start of the game. I never saw this show. No one made any mention of potential civ cylons until after Epi was rezzed that I can recall.

I did.

Specifically listed Athena too, as I recall.

3J asked why I believe Wilgy is a confirmed civvie...I don't. But Dex (and maybe someone else, I think it was Rico who said I was on drugs) asked me to read the rest of the thread before I do that, so I thought maybe he became one.

Derp.

Yeah, he's definitely not. Basically my understand of things is that Dex provided very solid reasoning as to why we likely have two more civ cylons other than Epig, Cap Six and Leo. However, I have seen nothing that points to Wilgy being one of them.

Did you go back in Wilgys posts and look for what Dex said to look for? You should make the effort,imo.

If Glorfindel claims, and if the votes stay as they are, Zeebbit is gonna die, and I don't think he is bad. And I want to go to bed, so I gotta vote now.

So as a counterwagon, I am gonna vote sig as a just in case Glorf claims, since a few days ago everyone thought he was bad, and he has dropped way down since then, and I think him more likely to be bad than Rabbit, Wilgy or OA, the other people with votes.

Linki @Drum, maybe Dex is reluctant to talk about it becasue there may be certain things a certain glowy yellow metallic personage may not want him to say. Maybe think about that.

*voting sig*

[Epignosis]

This surprises me because I recall a certain Prisoner grilling me for a manufactured trap on Nerolunar, and what DrumBeats is doing to Polo is very much the same thing.

There's your first argument against you.

Your treatment of Nero in Turf Wars came in the form of an impossible ultimatum. DrumBeats did not do that. He put a read in the thread.

No sir. DrumBeats said Polo was bad regardless of that outcome of Wilgy's alignment, which can't necessarily be known anyway given this set up. He makes Polo out to be bad no matter what transpires. That was something I would have expected you to jump on, but you didn't. I did instead, and it's weird to me that I have to point it out to you.

I said that I believe him to be bad. That is a read, not an absolute.

If the sun comes up tomorrow, you are bad.
If the sun doesn't come up tomorrow, you are only probably bad.

Answer that.

[Epignosis]

3J is trying to appear neutral and has succeeded.

Epi, one thing is bugging me about you: it's D6. Why did the mafia spare you?

D6?

Also, why do you assume the mafia has spared me?

[Polo]

3J is trying to appear neutral and has succeeded.

Epi, one thing is bugging me about you: it's D6. Why did the mafia spare you?

D6?

Also, why do you assume the mafia has spared me?

Day Six.

Because you're still alive and they could have nightkilled you by now.

[DrumBeats]

Quiet day today.

I like the spread of votes. Generally it means we are on the right track.

I wonder when BR will show up. I wonder if OA or Sokoth will discuss with me. I'm havin an itch that JJJ is bad.

Marmot, why are you being so quiet?

Linki - I think he did both...

I'm interested in your case on JJJ. I haven't found anything to scumread him on, but I would love to hear what you've got and see if I missed anything.

JJJ stated that the event with my defense reminded him of the GoC, his lynch survival, and his defense. I feel that it's more likely for him to be reminded of that incident if he were to know I was civ and genuinely defending myself, similarly to he did in the GoC. The only way for him to know this? he's with Cavil.

Noted. I haven't played in that game (or any) with him, but I will keep this in mind.

[Epignosis]

3J is trying to appear neutral and has succeeded.

Epi, one thing is bugging me about you: it's D6. Why did the mafia spare you?

D6?

Also, why do you assume the mafia has spared me?

Day Six.

Because you're still alive and they could have nightkilled you by now.

Why do you assume they haven't tried?

[S~V~S]

Because your suspicions are way off base? That is usually the best reason not to kill someone who is widely trusted.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm out. Gotta vote now.

sig

[DrumBeats]

Ah but you need to go back and read how I replied to that post of BRs you quoted, Rabbit. I DID think all cylons were bad at the start of the game. I never saw this show. No one made any mention of potential civ cylons until after Epi was rezzed that I can recall.

I did.

Specifically listed Athena too, as I recall.

3J asked why I believe Wilgy is a confirmed civvie...I don't. But Dex (and maybe someone else, I think it was Rico who said I was on drugs) asked me to read the rest of the thread before I do that, so I thought maybe he became one.

Derp.

Yeah, he's definitely not. Basically my understand of things is that Dex provided very solid reasoning as to why we likely have two more civ cylons other than Epig, Cap Six and Leo. However, I have seen nothing that points to Wilgy being one of them.

Did you go back in Wilgys posts and look for what Dex said to look for? You should make the effort,imo.

If Glorfindel claims, and if the votes stay as they are, Zeebbit is gonna die, and I don't think he is bad. And I want to go to bed, so I gotta vote now.

So as a counterwagon, I am gonna vote sig as a just in case Glorf claims, since a few days ago everyone thought he was bad, and he has dropped way down since then, and I think him more likely to be bad than Rabbit, Wilgy or OA, the other people with votes.

Linki @Drum, maybe Dex is reluctant to talk about it becasue there may be certain things a certain glowy yellow metallic personage may not want him to say. Maybe think about that.

*voting sig*

Dex never told me what to look for. Just told me to look. I have made the effort. I have read and reread their ISOs to look for it and I don't see it. If you can tell me where/about what to look for I would be happy to do it again, but I am sick of people telling me to simply look for something like a needle in a haystack without doing anything to aid in finding it.

[DrWilgy]

Catching up, since it confused some people last time when I responded to current and old simultaneously, I'm just going to make sure I go chronologically for clarity's sake.

@Drumbeats so, if my guess was right, then I'm mafia to you? That is utterly ridiculous and I'd expect a solid accusation from anyone who doubts my civness.

It's not ridiculous. Mafia likely knows who their teammates are. Civs do not have this type of information. Should Wilgy be town, a mafia member would know the following after the failed lynch:
1) Wilgy is not a mafia cylon
2) Wilgy is a cylon

That would leave a Mafia cylon to know that Wilgy is either a town cylon such as Cap Six or the Leo dude Dex mentioned, or one of the final five. Based on the nature of Wilgy's claim, it was pretty clear that he knew he was a cylon, so that would mean that either the final five twist has started behind the scenes or that he is a town cylon. I cannot see a way to believe that strongly that he is civ without having this mafia inside knowledge. If anybody else can come up with another way, I would love to hear it.

All of the above depends entirely on how Wilgy flips though. If Wilgy flips mafia later, then all of this has no meaning.

However, the bolded and underlined here, I find suspcious. From my experience, scum players are much more likely to get frustrated when they are suspected for reasoning that they find flawed.

Perhaps what I'm saying just make sense? Drumbeats did you judge me based on my postings vs me just being a cylon yet? if so point me to it please.

The primary reason for my judgement is that you are a cylon. Based on what I've heard from the people who know the lore, of our 5 unknown cylons, only two seem like possibilities for civilian roles. This would put you, ignoring behavior, at a 60% likelihood of being mafia.

Then the secondary reasoning is your behavior. My biggest suspicion about it is that you have only started contributing to the thread after you came under fire. I found most of your posts before the lynch happened to be very unhelpful, and reminded me of what I'm seeing from Vompatti, but now that you have burned your immunity and are out in the open you suddenly have begun to actually make comprehensive posts.

Can you explain why that is?

I'm lazy. The game has slowed down quite abit since I actually started contributing so it hasn't been that bad to keep up though.

[Epignosis]

Because your suspicions are way off base? That is usually the best reason not to kill someone who is widely trusted.

I think I'm alive for other reasons.

I could be alive for what you say, but I'm pretty sure it's other reasons.

[DrumBeats]

3J is trying to appear neutral and has succeeded.

Epi, one thing is bugging me about you: it's D6. Why did the mafia spare you?

D6?

Also, why do you assume the mafia has spared me?

Day Six.

Because you're still alive and they could have nightkilled you by now.

Martial law could have a lot to do with this imo. Or as S~V~S said it could be off-base suspicions. Or it could be WIFOMing this exact reaction.

[S~V~S]

Drum, read what I wrote please. About the glowy metallic personage. Geez, think about it. Dex did not want to specify for fear.I don;t want to specify for fear. If the next time you see me I am cursed to speak Swahili or whatever, you did that to me

Have a fun night folks.

Linki @ Epi,it was a guess

[Epignosis]

Mafia don't need me dead to win. That's number one.

Number two is let them try.

[Dex]

Do you care to actually point me where to look? The only way you have responded is by telling me to look. I have looked at both you and Wilgy's ISO's as well as the lynch itself and I haven't seen anything. If this phantom information is out there, I would like to see it, and if you are unable to directly tell it to me, at least point out where I should look for it. Repeatedly telling me to find it myself does nothing.

I don't know what to tell you. I left enough clues that S~V~S was able to figure it out.

I was all ready to vote Wilgy last lynch, but then decided to try and start a Cain mutiny instead, which in the event happened. Yay us! Then, after the lynch post, I suddenly concluded that Wilgy was civ. I know its frustrating that I have to be obtuse, but if I cross a line, Goldama will seriously modkill my ass.

[DrumBeats]

Drum, read what I wrote please. About the glowy metallic personage. Geez, think about it. Dex did not want to specify for fear.I don;t want to specify for fear. If the next time you see me I am cursed to speak Swahili or whatever, you did that to me

Have a fun night folks.

Linki @ Epi,it was a guess

I get what you are saying about the glowy metallic personage, but I also do not see how pointing me anywhere would warrant any metallic action. I want general terms of where to look, I will find it myself if I have something to go off of, but I haven't found it in the ISO's and seriously have no clue what to look at.

[Glorfindel]

You didn't offer me facts. You gave me opinions and perceptions.

Fine. I'll work with that. What roles are bad?

Morning tea...

I never claimed to have facts Epi and if you think you have any more than the rest of us you're kidding yourself. The absence of them I think is what makes this game so 'challenging'. Your other question is interesting and I do have an opinion or two but I may not have time to get back to you before my lunch/EoD (and potentially EoMe) but I'll try if I get the opportunity.

Well, I'm not nice like you.

You claim civilians have no chance, but you have nothing to back it up. I think you are deceptive and bad. I hope you get lynched.

Here's a smiley face to prove I'm being nice when I say that.

Not so, my friend. I have the one thing necessary to see the truth - something you and the remainder of our team appear to lack - an open mind.

It appears that my own team have unwittingly conspired with the Mafia to eliminate me from this game so I'll play your little game and for the good of our Town team claim immunity under the Cylon Amnesty Act - I am a Cylon.

[Epignosis]

[Epignosis]

"I'll play your little game."

Ain't that rich?

[rabbit8]

Well... Imagetlynched?

[Dex]

Then there three

Vomps
Obscure
Rico

[DrumBeats]

@Dex If you can't actually give me any sort of vague direction other than "Read" then please don't be condescending as hell about how "obvious" it is. Frustrating as hell on my end because I have been trying constantly to see this, and being repeatedly told that I just need to read or "put in a little thought" is infuriating.

@ linki Glorf - So now you finally claim.


I am willing to give Wilgy another day I guess so I can try to look for this for like the 4th and 5th time tomorrow when my mind has cleared, but honestly I am not seeing it. And I have read. I have put in more than a "little thought".

For now I am thinking Sig since Glorf has claimed, I'm not really seeing the suspicion on Rabbit. I've found his posts preferable to Zebra's but I also don't know either's meta.

[Epignosis]

For now I am thinking Sig since Glorf has claimed, I'm not really seeing the suspicion on Rabbit. I've found his posts preferable to Zebra's but I also don't know either's meta.

Why?

[DrumBeats]

Oh wow, looking at the timing of Glorf's claim that is an incredibly good strategic point for a cylon to claim.

The way it stands right now we have:

4 votes Glorf (discounting Silver's)
3 votes on Sig (Discounting Zebra)
3 votes on Rabbit

This forces us to vote break the tie and put somebody above Glorf in terms of votes, which will not allow us to be certain that Glorf is a cylon.

@ linki Epig I can make sense of them and see reasoning behind them. Zebra I often could not deduce reasoning. That being said though, Rabbits more recent posts were not so great and had little to no content.

I would personally rather take more time to read Rabbit and push for Sig today.

I also trust the people who voted for Sig more than those that voted Rabbit.

Sig

[Dex]

@Dex If you can't actually give me any sort of vague direction other than "Read" then please don't be condescending as hell about how "obvious" it is. Frustrating as hell on my end because I have been trying constantly to see this, and being repeatedly told that I just need to read or "put in a little thought" is infuriating.

I apologize. I never said it is obvious, I apologized for having to be obtuse. Believe me, its as frustrating for me as it is for you.

But its real. Its no "phantom".

I thank you for giving it another day, and like sig as an alternative.

[Glorfindel]

I have said before that I do not believe Sig is Mafia and whilst 3J has cast some doubt in my mind I'm still not sufficiently convinced that he is bad to vote for him. I said before that I was most suspicious about Black Rock and I will stand by that judgement and Vote Black Rock

[Dex]

The way it stands right now we have:

4 votes Glorf (discounting Silver's)
3 votes on Sig (Discounting Zebra)
3 votes on Rabbit

Vomps had a second vote which he cast for Glorf and which doesn't appear in the poll.

[rabbit8]

Oh wow, looking at the timing of Glorf's claim that is an incredibly good strategic point for a cylon to claim.

The way it stands right now we have:

4 votes Glorf (discounting Silver's)
3 votes on Sig (Discounting Zebra)
3 votes on Rabbit

This forces us to vote break the tie and put somebody above Glorf in terms of votes, which will not allow us to be certain that Glorf is a cylon.

@ linki Epig I can make sense of them and see reasoning behind them. Zebra I often could not deduce reasoning. That being said though, Rabbits more recent posts were not so great and had little to no content.

I would personally rather take more time to read Rabbit and push for Sig today.

I also trust the people who voted for Sig more than those that voted Rabbit.

Sig

QFT. Except for JJJ, I don't trust him. One of his first posts he put an entire WIFOM argument out, for his entire game. Very suspicious. Well played though.

sig

[DrumBeats]

Mafia don't need me dead to win. That's number one.

Number two is let them try.

How do you know that?

[Epignosis]

Oh wow, looking at the timing of Glorf's claim that is an incredibly good strategic point for a cylon to claim.

The way it stands right now we have:

4 votes Glorf (discounting Silver's)
3 votes on Sig (Discounting Zebra)
3 votes on Rabbit

This forces us to vote break the tie and put somebody above Glorf in terms of votes, which will not allow us to be certain that Glorf is a cylon.

@ linki Epig I can make sense of them and see reasoning behind them. Zebra I often could not deduce reasoning. That being said though, Rabbits more recent posts were not so great and had little to no content.

I would personally rather take more time to read Rabbit and push for Sig today.

I also trust the people who voted for Sig more than those that voted Rabbit.

Sig

No, this is bullshit.

"This forces us to vote break the tie and put somebody above Glorf in terms of votes, which will not allow us to be certain that Glorf is a cylon."

No it doesn't. Vote somewhere else. Leave Glorfindel in the lead. You don't have to vote one of the front runners.

If Silverowlf's vote doesn't count, you put sig in the lead ahead of Glorfindel.

[Epignosis]

Mafia don't need me dead to win. That's number one.

Number two is let them try.

How do you know that?

Try to kill me. I know you want to.

[G-Man]

Oh wow, looking at the timing of Glorf's claim that is an incredibly good strategic point for a cylon to claim.

The way it stands right now we have:

4 votes Glorf (discounting Silver's)
3 votes on Sig (Discounting Zebra)
3 votes on Rabbit

This forces us to vote break the tie and put somebody above Glorf in terms of votes, which will not allow us to be certain that Glorf is a cylon.

@ linki Epig I can make sense of them and see reasoning behind them. Zebra I often could not deduce reasoning. That being said though, Rabbits more recent posts were not so great and had little to no content.

I would personally rather take more time to read Rabbit and push for Sig today.

I also trust the people who voted for Sig more than those that voted Rabbit.

Sig

Actually, Vompatti cast his second vote for Glorfindel, so he has five votes. I knew he'd break down and claim! The Toaster becomes the toast tomorrow.

That post kinda makes Drum look worse, no?

[Dex]

Now Glorf and sig are tied.

[Epignosis]

Lynch Glorfindel and Dumbeats.

[sig]

Wow what bullshit in all these last minutes phone in votes on me smh.

[DrumBeats]

What happens in tie votes here? I went back to check the OP and it says nothing on it. Is a tie a no lynch or a randomized?

[sig]

Also I'm ahead by one know so great job there.

[DrumBeats]

Mafia don't need me dead to win. That's number one.

Number two is let them try.

How do you know that?

Try to kill me. I know you want to.

I got no kill bro. Also I am just curious as to how you would know the mafia's win con.

[Epignosis]

What happens in tie votes here? I went back to check the OP and it says nothing on it. Is a tie a no lynch or a randomized?

You get lynched and you are shown for the charlatan that you are.

[Golden]

In the event of a tied vote for the most votes, the person who is lynched will be randomised between all people of equal top votes.

[Epignosis]

Mafia don't need me dead to win. That's number one.

Number two is let them try.

How do you know that?

Try to kill me. I know you want to.

I got no kill bro. Also I am just curious as to how you would know the mafia's win con.

Does that make you nervous?

[DrumBeats]

Oh wow, looking at the timing of Glorf's claim that is an incredibly good strategic point for a cylon to claim.

The way it stands right now we have:

4 votes Glorf (discounting Silver's)
3 votes on Sig (Discounting Zebra)
3 votes on Rabbit

This forces us to vote break the tie and put somebody above Glorf in terms of votes, which will not allow us to be certain that Glorf is a cylon.

@ linki Epig I can make sense of them and see reasoning behind them. Zebra I often could not deduce reasoning. That being said though, Rabbits more recent posts were not so great and had little to no content.

I would personally rather take more time to read Rabbit and push for Sig today.

I also trust the people who voted for Sig more than those that voted Rabbit.

Sig

Actually, Vompatti cast his second vote for Glorfindel, so he has five votes. I knew he'd break down and claim! The Toaster becomes the toast tomorrow.

That post kinda makes Drum look worse, no?

How so? I pointed out the shit situation we were put in and made a decision. Tie votes are depending on site, either a NL, or a randomized lynch. A NL would be the worst case scenario, and a random lynch still isn't optimal.

[G-Man]

Any votes left out there? If so, vote Glorfindel so we can confirm him as a Toaster. Please! This is like LoRab-Nero revisited.

[sig]

My wagon as is glorfindel are both civs manipulated by mafia to get us away from lynching Zebra/rabbit. both who voted for me with no real reasons what so ever.

Rabbit rarely mentions me at all then suddenly is attacking my "wifom" first post which isn't the case and he throughout the day didn't mention me once before his vote.

[DrumBeats]

Mafia don't need me dead to win. That's number one.

Number two is let them try.

How do you know that?

Try to kill me. I know you want to.

I got no kill bro. Also I am just curious as to how you would know the mafia's win con.

Does that make you nervous?

Why would it? I am simply making note of one thing I found odd.