Battlestar Galactica Mafia - GAME OVER

[Dex]

And I've ranted about wiggly and glor for like a week real time
And no one listened so I'm kinda just done with explaining it further
If no one will listen.

We have first raised a dust and then complain we cannot see.

[ObscureAllure]

And I've ranted about wiggly and glor for like a week real time
And no one listened so I'm kinda just done with explaining it further
If no one will listen.

We have first raised a dust and then complain we cannot see.

I'm not the one who can't see.

[Ricochet]

Vompatti is henceforth put in the brig and silenced for the rest of the day for his fifth failure to address the Admiral appropriately.

This is a warning. Another failure will result in execution.

It was nice knowing you, Voops.

[/quote="Ricochet"]

Well balance comes in the Host design. The Law's content is not the Host's creation. At the very best the Host could moderate the Law the Presidents creates, if necessary, but once issued, if there are "balancing" issues and the Host would need to modify something, again, it would sound like too much crazy backstage stuff. Henceforth, I see not reason to believe a clause that the first baddie Cylon's claim and survival would trigger something, if purely based on the Law.

Give me a break. The host has this game planned out. If the player made a law that unbalanced the game the host would balance it. I don't even really care about this point anyway. You like to argue about stupid shit, so he we go.
I don't care what you see as you're bad and did not claim. You will discredit anything that makes those look worse.
=== [/quote]

Why are you writing in dead?

I agree the Host has this game planned out, I don't agree it has planned out what the President will enact. What you said underlined is what I said underlined. Moderation from the Host could come at the point of the President conceiving his law. It doesn't mean the Host will accept a law and just craft his own ammendment in secrecy. Then again, I've been farked before by semi-closed setups, when I expressed disbelief at something being allowed by the Host, so who knows, but right now, I'm still choosing to believe added gameplay mechanics to an unbalanced law is not part of the PLAN. And I will definitely not decide to lynch Glorfindel, if anything, based on this theory that his claim triggered the impeachment.

And yes, I do like to argue about anything. Especially when I'm winning at it.

So nutella could be bad? Get a fucking backbone already. Or you want people to doubt it? Because a lot of assumptions are being based on her being bad and you seem to think she might not be be? Which is?

All I said is that we can assume nutella to be a baddie Cylon. What's wrong with that? Lynch flips are not a thing in this game, it seems, so there's no actual certainty; only lore can point at the likelihood of that. Also, maybe you didn't happen to get to Day Three, but I spent that Day making a full set of reads on players, based on the idea that nutella was bad and there are interactions to be extracted out of that. So how am I opposing the idea, again?

You're the one Glof is talking about using lore to get your agenda done, This is for Epig to see. I don't care if you respond, Rico.

Good, cause I have no idea what you mean or what you think I did. Glor proposed that Mafia is using lore to dig his grave, during Day Six. So I did that how exactly, since I never voted for him?

Rico is way to obsessed with the checkerboard and checking patterns being respected and not opening up to interpretation and manipulation.

Fixed it for you. Even so, what do you mean to say with my obsession about the checkerboard and what does it tell you, in ways that you might suspect me? You've just thrown this sentence out there, with no effect.

You changed my words and that's bullshit. So everyone knows YOU added words in the quote. All you had to do was add them under the quote. But you like to twist things.

Will you chill. Do you not use the internet? "Fixed", in memetic language, means to transform a person's original post to signal your thoughts on what really happened and where the person might be mistaken. Which is exactly what I did.

No you're way to obsessed with the bullshit in the game. You're bad and using them as a cover and a spring board to making accusations that someone didn't follow the stupid rules or do what you, a baddies, wants. Trying to control everything or have your hand in everything is a pure mafia tactic. I've fucking pulled it years ago. Like arguing with ika. Control the message, early and often. You're slipping though because you over due it.[/dead]

I'm not slipping on anything and you don't really have a grasp on what accusations you're hurling at me, either.

Well done not voting for nutella and now claiming she COULD be bad.

Could be assumed. This time I didn't used the "Fixed" method.

[Ricochet]

Well, that was a disaster. EBWOP

Vompatti is henceforth put in the brig and silenced for the rest of the day for his fifth failure to address the Admiral appropriately.

This is a warning. Another failure will result in execution.

It was nice knowing you, Voops.

Well balance comes in the Host design. The Law's content is not the Host's creation. At the very best the Host could moderate the Law the Presidents creates, if necessary, but once issued, if there are "balancing" issues and the Host would need to modify something, again, it would sound like too much crazy backstage stuff. Henceforth, I see not reason to believe a clause that the first baddie Cylon's claim and survival would trigger something, if purely based on the Law.

Give me a break. The host has this game planned out. If the player made a law that unbalanced the game the host would balance it. I don't even really care about this point anyway. You like to argue about stupid shit, so he we go.
I don't care what you see as you're bad and did not claim. You will discredit anything that makes those look worse.
===

Why are you writing in dead?

I agree the Host has this game planned out, I don't agree it has planned out what the President will enact. What you said underlined is what I said underlined. Moderation from the Host could come at the point of the President conceiving his law. It doesn't mean the Host will accept a law and just craft his own ammendment in secrecy. Then again, I've been farked before by semi-closed setups, when I expressed disbelief at something being allowed by the Host, so who knows, but right now, I'm still choosing to believe added gameplay mechanics to an unbalanced law is not part of the PLAN. And I will definitely not decide to lynch Glorfindel, if anything, based on this theory that his claim triggered the impeachment.

And yes, I do like to argue about anything. Especially when I'm winning at it.

So nutella could be bad? Get a fucking backbone already. Or you want people to doubt it? Because a lot of assumptions are being based on her being bad and you seem to think she might not be be? Which is?

All I said is that we can assume nutella to be a baddie Cylon. What's wrong with that? Lynch flips are not a thing in this game, it seems, so there's no actual certainty; only lore can point at the likelihood of that. Also, maybe you didn't happen to get to Day Three, but I spent that Day making a full set of reads on players, based on the idea that nutella was bad and there are interactions to be extracted out of that. So how am I opposing the idea, again?

You're the one Glof is talking about using lore to get your agenda done, This is for Epig to see. I don't care if you respond, Rico.

Good, cause I have no idea what you mean or what you think I did. Glor proposed that Mafia is using lore to dig his grave, during Day Six. So I did that how exactly, since I never voted for him?

Rico is way to obsessed with the checkerboard and checking patterns being respected and not opening up to interpretation and manipulation.

Fixed it for you. Even so, what do you mean to say with my obsession about the checkerboard and what does it tell you, in ways that you might suspect me? You've just thrown this sentence out there, with no effect.

You changed my words and that's bullshit. So everyone knows YOU added words in the quote. All you had to do was add them under the quote. But you like to twist things.

Will you chill. Do you not use the internet? "Fixed", in memetic language, means to transform a person's original post to signal your thoughts on what really happened and where the person might be mistaken. Which is exactly what I did.

No you're way to obsessed with the bullshit in the game. You're bad and using them as a cover and a spring board to making accusations that someone didn't follow the stupid rules or do what you, a baddies, wants. Trying to control everything or have your hand in everything is a pure mafia tactic. I've fucking pulled it years ago. Like arguing with ika. Control the message, early and often. You're slipping though because you over due it.

I'm not slipping on anything and you don't really have a grasp on what accusations you're hurling at me, either.

Well done not voting for nutella and now claiming she COULD be bad.

Could be assumed. This time I didn't used the "Fixed" method.

[Ricochet]

1. You should treat my Day six survival based on the evidence in front of you. Whether I claimed or didn't claim is not the point here and anyone who treats it so is being highly disingenuous. The FACT is that the result of the EoD6 was inconclusive. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is simply lying or openly making and assumption - their INTERPRETATION of what happened. It's a very simple principle, INTERPRETATION =/= FACT. You can try to cut it a million different ways, but it will always come down to that.

Thank you for answering, I will take this into account. You are correct, we are trying to interpret here what happened, it's the best we can do, in light of facts (mind you, not of what happened, but of why it happened) not being presented. I mean, if that's what you meant to say.

You imply that your claim has nothing to do with the inconclusive lynch result. I believe a counter-argument has been presented that you had no reason to claim at all, if you knew your lynch would have turned out inconclusive. It is not usually in the nature of town roles who can survive a lynch (or, say, save a lynch or stop a lynch etc. etc.) to try to mask it with a mechanics that raises separate issues with their survival.

I'd like to further push this side of the discussion with a question, if you'd be willing to phrase a reply in any way possible: Are you a Cylon? LoRab and Wilgy were forthcoming with this, after their claim and survival. How 'bout you?

2. My reference to Dex and Polo related more specifically to their actions post EoD6. I found the timing of their reigniting of the campaign for my lynching and their somewhat creative conclusions around the events at the end of that phase highly suspicious. If one were to look at both of them with a critical eye both for their previous actions and those since, I believe their is cause for wider suspicion. For example, we've been told by Golden that we are to have the benefit of some kind of 'communication from the dead'. This could yield critical information for us that may help us a lot (because, by God I think we need it). What does Dex do? Formulates an utterly unfounded (and untrue) theory about me being someone aligned to a 'Cavill faction', tries to enlist some of the more gullible members of the Town and places his vote on me. Does that seem like undue haste to you? Because it sure does to me.

Thank you for answering, I will take this into account.

Don't know what you mean with the part in blue, though? Are you referencing Baltar's new law or something else? Cause Baltar's law came on Day Seven, y'know. I missed whatever you say Golden told us, anyway.

3. As for the players that voted for me on Day 6, G-Man came as no surprise to me - he's made his feelings toward me very clear. I think he has a lot of potential actually. From my perspective, he seems extremely committed to the game and is capable of structured analysis that is fairly impressive. Where he needs to improve though is his conclusions. Bea, I honestly don't know. She's not someone that has found their way on to my radar yet. I know a couple of people have accused her but I'd need to go back and ISO her - she seems rather innocuous (that is not meant in any kind of offensive way, by the way) to me. I suspect that assuming that she is Town, she's like most everyone here - G-Man or Dex bangs a drum and they simply follow... Matt is a strange one however. I'd not doubted him at all to that point and found his jumping on my wagon to be rather... disappointing. It seems to me that like Sig, he seems to just drop into this game from time to time and I just wonder if he's really 'connected' to what's been happening here. I like however the perspective that he brings to this game and he seems genuinely open to different opinions on the game and is willing to come up with his own ideas on the game which I take as a good sign.

Thank you for answering, I will take this into account.

4. On the contrary, the players that voted for Sig bother me a great deal. I'm struggling a little with Rabbit seeing that Zebs whom he replaced (and who had some history with me where we actively read one another accurately) was supportive of me and he (having not played with me before) seems to have taken an alternative view. If I were in his shoes, I think I should be more cautious in abandoning my predecessor's comments and views. Having said that, he appears to be under some pressure himself right now so perhaps I'm a convenient diversion As for Drumbeats, I subscribe to Epi's opinions and think there is a strong likelihood that he may be Mafia.

Thank you for answering, I will take this into account. My issue was that you were fast to point out suspects that had voted real early in the Day Six proceedings, compared to players who might actually have tried to contributed to whether you or sig would get the lynch ticket. That simply seemed a weird perspective and prioritizing in your suspicion listing.

You are not the only ones who invest a lot of energy and who make sacrifices to find time to contribute to this game. I give up a lot of my free time to play these games with you all just like you do. You are not on your own in your commitment to this game. In addition, I extend respect to each of you in the way I interact with you and I would appreciate you extending the same courtesy to me. Thanks.

I respect the players I play Mafia with on this website. It may not look that way, but I respect even the players I appear confrontational with. The confrontation itself stems purely from being engaged head on into the game. Maybe you do not adhere to this, but there are countless reasons why I might, for instance, try to push the limits of discussion, and none of them is trying to disrespect my rebuttal opponent. For me, emotional distancing manifests itself in many ways and is necessary in a Mafia game. So when I may express that an emotional appeal you've made is not relevant to my interpretation of game situations, it's just that: I cannot add it to my analysis. When I may express that I can't embrace a "downer" attitude regarding the town's chances, I'm merely saying I can't let this attitude affect my personal game, not to imply that you invest any less, because you embrace a dispirited viewpoint.

[Matt]

I respect the players I play Mafia with on this website.

LOL

Anyway, off to work for the day.

Peace

[rabbit8]

Well, that was a disaster. EBWOP

Vompatti is henceforth put in the brig and silenced for the rest of the day for his fifth failure to address the Admiral appropriately.

This is a warning. Another failure will result in execution.

It was nice knowing you, Voops.

Well balance comes in the Host design. The Law's content is not the Host's creation. At the very best the Host could moderate the Law the Presidents creates, if necessary, but once issued, if there are "balancing" issues and the Host would need to modify something, again, it would sound like too much crazy backstage stuff. Henceforth, I see not reason to believe a clause that the first baddie Cylon's claim and survival would trigger something, if purely based on the Law.

Give me a break. The host has this game planned out. If the player made a law that unbalanced the game the host would balance it. I don't even really care about this point anyway. You like to argue about stupid shit, so he we go.
I don't care what you see as you're bad and did not claim. You will discredit anything that makes those look worse.
===

Why are you writing in dead?

I agree the Host has this game planned out, I don't agree it has planned out what the President will enact. What you said underlined is what I said underlined. Moderation from the Host could come at the point of the President conceiving his law. It doesn't mean the Host will accept a law and just craft his own ammendment in secrecy. Then again, I've been farked before by semi-closed setups, when I expressed disbelief at something being allowed by the Host, so who knows, but right now, I'm still choosing to believe added gameplay mechanics to an unbalanced law is not part of the PLAN. And I will definitely not decide to lynch Glorfindel, if anything, based on this theory that his claim triggered the impeachment.

And yes, I do like to argue about anything. Especially when I'm winning at it.

So nutella could be bad? Get a fucking backbone already. Or you want people to doubt it? Because a lot of assumptions are being based on her being bad and you seem to think she might not be be? Which is?

All I said is that we can assume nutella to be a baddie Cylon. What's wrong with that? Lynch flips are not a thing in this game, it seems, so there's no actual certainty; only lore can point at the likelihood of that. Also, maybe you didn't happen to get to Day Three, but I spent that Day making a full set of reads on players, based on the idea that nutella was bad and there are interactions to be extracted out of that. So how am I opposing the idea, again?

You're the one Glof is talking about using lore to get your agenda done, This is for Epig to see. I don't care if you respond, Rico.

Good, cause I have no idea what you mean or what you think I did. Glor proposed that Mafia is using lore to dig his grave, during Day Six. So I did that how exactly, since I never voted for him?

Rico is way to obsessed with the checkerboard and checking patterns being respected and not opening up to interpretation and manipulation.

Fixed it for you. Even so, what do you mean to say with my obsession about the checkerboard and what does it tell you, in ways that you might suspect me? You've just thrown this sentence out there, with no effect.

You changed my words and that's bullshit. So everyone knows YOU added words in the quote. All you had to do was add them under the quote. But you like to twist things.

Will you chill. Do you not use the internet? "Fixed", in memetic language, means to transform a person's original post to signal your thoughts on what really happened and where the person might be mistaken. Which is exactly what I did.

No you're way to obsessed with the bullshit in the game. You're bad and using them as a cover and a spring board to making accusations that someone didn't follow the stupid rules or do what you, a baddies, wants. Trying to control everything or have your hand in everything is a pure mafia tactic. I've fucking pulled it years ago. Like arguing with ika. Control the message, early and often. You're slipping though because you over due it.

I'm not slipping on anything and you don't really have a grasp on what accusations you're hurling at me, either.

Well done not voting for nutella and now claiming she COULD be bad.

Could be assumed. This time I didn't used the "Fixed" method.

I guess you win? Keep assuming I'm not chill... if it makes you feel better? I know what I'm accusing you of, being mafia.

You want to control the game and make sure everything does everything according to your plan. But when the plan the town comes up with, claiming cyclon, you refuse unless it's on your terms. I'm blaming you of being a hypocrite.

You say a lot of shit, twist, and internet fix posts and claim someone is upset, mad, not chill. While anyone who has actually played with me knows I'm laughing my ass off at you right now, and your attempt at WINNING.

You're votes are all suspect. Anyone paying attention can see that.

[Ricochet]

I guess you win? Keep assuming I'm not chill... if it makes you feel better? I know what I'm accusing you of, being mafia.

You want to control the game and make sure everything does everything according to your plan. But when the plan the town comes up with, claiming cyclon, you refuse unless it's on your terms. I'm blaming you of being a hypocrite.

You say a lot of shit, twist, and internet fix posts and claim someone is upset, mad, not chill. While anyone who has actually played with me knows I'm laughing my ass off at you right now, and your attempt at WINNING.

You're votes are all suspect. Anyone paying attention can see that.

I have no wish to control the game and I have no PLAN, in that regard. As for the amnesty plan, if anything, I'm trying to see it through to the end, in town's interest. I have no investment, otherwise, in holding on to fakeclaiming.

My votes are hardly suspect. I voted for uncooperative (if I'd still embrace using the word, it would be "scummy") players who were evasive about important baddie lynch moments, I voted for a player I found most suspicious out of the nutella connections, I carried through with voting LoRab again, because her claimgame was not persuasive. And I voted anti-town Admiral Con.

The rest of your post is just throwing words. Present facts and we'll discuss.

[rabbit8]

Yes, you voted for lorab, the human civvie. Twice.

Keep up the im better then claiming attitude, it makes the rest of your argument mute.

You started to try controling the game with ika, then insert whoever you could get to argue with you over whatever.

You're overplaying.

[Ricochet]

Yes, you voted for lorab, the human civvie. Twice.

Keep up the im better then claiming attitude, it makes the rest of your argument mute.

You started to try controling the game with ika, then insert whoever you could get to argue with you over whatever.

You're overplaying.

Human civvie, you say? Uh-huh, uh-huh.

I voted for a player that looked bad out of the nutella lynch and then a Cylon whose only defense was "I'm good k". Only afterwards did LoRab flip and if she happens to be on the good side, well that's that.

Don't know what controling the game with ika means. Two days ago you called it skippable bullsuit. Suddenly I suspect you and it's relevant material of me "shapeshifting the game"? Okk. Don't know what insert something into arguing with someone over something (that's about as vague as you put it, btw) means.

Oh I see you must have gotten zebra's memo to push the angle that "Rico is a tryhard". False, but at least you have a suspicion to drum on, I guess.

[Polo]

Rabbit8 and Rico, you're both civ. Why waste time arguing with each other?

[Epignosis]

You nerds can keep right on arguing in your Internet game.

I just made my first C++ calculator.

[Ricochet]

Rabbit8 and Rico, you're both civ. Why waste time arguing with each other?

I know I am, but don't think he is. I'm pretty sure he feels the same.

I should do something productive. Like going over on NF to do some reads, whilst it's hush time during Nights. Oh wait, I said productive... pfffff... tough one.

[Dex]

As for the amnesty plan, if anything, I'm trying to see it through to the end, in town's interest. I have no investment, otherwise, in holding on to fakeclaiming.

Are you actually able to post this with a straight face?

Complete and utter, man. Complete and utter.

[Ricochet]

As for the amnesty plan, if anything, I'm trying to see it through to the end, in town's interest. I have no investment, otherwise, in holding on to fakeclaiming.

Are you actually able to post this with a straight face?

Complete and utter, man. Complete and utter.

Yes I am. Fakeclaiming is no gain whatsoever for me personally, but keeping under check that the plan goes fully through is making an impact.

Anyway, keep bugging me specifically after:

a) the Act has been repealed
b) it took like three Phases for the claim plan to finally, screechingly, reach a number of three players remaining; much solidarity, overall
c) the Act actually managed to out up to potentially three Cylons, although on the other hand, it seems two of them are widely regarded as good-aligned; hey, remember when I said the baddies might try to get first tickets on the claiming train and leave civvies on the non-claim / later-claim / claim-resisting side of the field? yeah

[Epignosis]

I don't believe Polo reasonably thinks he's getting S~V~S lynched today, which makes me question the sincerity of his vote and his "I'll talk about it later" business.

I also don't believe this:

Dex - again. Explain it to me like I'm dumb
Cuz I really . Why Wilgy civ and not glor? What am I missing?

My Wilgy case is here.

My case against Glorfindel has three legs. 1) His repetitive but generally contentless posts. 2) He was the last non-declarer to declare before the law was repealed, and did it to save himself, a cylon attribute. 3) By process of elimination. I believe I know who the last two anti-Cavil cylons are. They're not Glorfindel.

In non-specific words that you are able (or allowed) to express, how are we to interpret the notion that you've "ID'd" specific roles / players?

From posts in the thread I believe I've deduced the two roles mentioned above. It's just a personal belief. I have no info or role power.

Question: Is Wilgy on the good side and within the margin of those two anti-Cavil roles, in your process of elimination?

Question 2: Wilgy and you had a small banter a while back on the use of the word "God" in certain context. Should I look into interpreting anything out of this, in your opinion?

Folks, Glorfindel's survival by claiming last day is enough to warrant his lynch. There is no plausible way he's not a Cylon.

S~V~S is mafia Cylon and we need her lynched ASAP.

That's pretty generic, though. What makes Glorfindel to you a bad Cylon?

Also, if SVS is mafia Cylon, do you think she would have bussed nutella Day Two the way she did?

Because we've come to know who are the civ Cylons: Epi and Wilgy.

Yes, she would; because doing that would rid her of ANY attention whatsoever - exactly what a mafia boss needs. I believe she's John Cavil.

S~V~S and I share very few commonalities, both in real life and when it comes to approaching Mafia...

...however, she and I do share this: We are loath to divest our team of numbers, abilities, and personality. She may correct me if I am wrong, but, while we don't disagree that it's a valid tactic, we both view it as a diminishing the challenge of the game and depriving teammates of a chance to flex their muscles, thereby becoming better players themselves.

Again, S~V~S, correct me if I am wrong on any of that.

I don't see S~V~S chucking nutella out of airlock. If she is bad and did do this, I don't think she did it intentionally (i.e., I don't think she knew nutella was bad with her).

[Polo]

I don't believe Polo reasonably thinks he's getting S~V~S lynched today, which makes me question the sincerity of his vote and his "I'll talk about it later" business.

I also don't believe this:

Dex - again. Explain it to me like I'm dumb
Cuz I really . Why Wilgy civ and not glor? What am I missing?

My Wilgy case is here.

My case against Glorfindel has three legs. 1) His repetitive but generally contentless posts. 2) He was the last non-declarer to declare before the law was repealed, and did it to save himself, a cylon attribute. 3) By process of elimination. I believe I know who the last two anti-Cavil cylons are. They're not Glorfindel.

In non-specific words that you are able (or allowed) to express, how are we to interpret the notion that you've "ID'd" specific roles / players?

From posts in the thread I believe I've deduced the two roles mentioned above. It's just a personal belief. I have no info or role power.

Question: Is Wilgy on the good side and within the margin of those two anti-Cavil roles, in your process of elimination?

Question 2: Wilgy and you had a small banter a while back on the use of the word "God" in certain context. Should I look into interpreting anything out of this, in your opinion?

Folks, Glorfindel's survival by claiming last day is enough to warrant his lynch. There is no plausible way he's not a Cylon.

S~V~S is mafia Cylon and we need her lynched ASAP.

That's pretty generic, though. What makes Glorfindel to you a bad Cylon?

Also, if SVS is mafia Cylon, do you think she would have bussed nutella Day Two the way she did?

Because we've come to know who are the civ Cylons: Epi and Wilgy.

Yes, she would; because doing that would rid her of ANY attention whatsoever - exactly what a mafia boss needs. I believe she's John Cavil.

S~V~S and I share very few commonalities, both in real life and when it comes to approaching Mafia...

...however, she and I do share this: We are loath to divest our team of numbers, abilities, and personality. She may correct me if I am wrong, but, while we don't disagree that it's a valid tactic, we both view it as a diminishing the challenge of the game and depriving teammates of a chance to flex their muscles, thereby becoming better players themselves.

Again, S~V~S, correct me if I am wrong on any of that.

I don't see S~V~S chucking nutella out of airlock. If she is bad and did do this, I don't think she did it intentionally (i.e., I don't think she knew nutella was bad with her).

Rico, I'm seriously busy. Some big named int'l law fellas from the Swiss Prosecution Service came to my town this weekend for a conference on international money laundering and my professor asked me to be his translator. .

[S~V~S]

I am also waiting for "later"to come around. Polo was in here this AM when I was in here and I specifically addressed him in the post I made. I have already explained my stance on Cain, which seems to me to be the primary reason he suspects me. And I was not the only one to feel this way. And I think we did the right thing by lynching him,and I would do it agian.

It's interesting; not only does he think I am a bad cylon, he thinks I am a specific bad cylon. Maybe he got a message or something, but if he did it was lying.

In any case, my goal as a baddie whenever possible is to win with the team intact. To me, that is more important than just winning, that is like the Coup Fourre of winning.It probably goes back to when you had to be alive to win, even bad, as we used to play it on LP, TP & RM. In all the years I have been playing, I have achieved it twice. One time involved a last minute rezz, but he was alive, lol.

So if Nutella was flailing, I would have chucked her if I had to as a baddie, but I would have waited longer. And I don't think she WAS flailing until after I voted her.

This is all top notch WIFOM,and I would not have brought it up myself, but since Epi did

In any case,I agree with Polo ( ) Rabbit & Rico stop it. I also think you are both civ, and your differences seem to boil down mostly to philiosophical approach to Mafia. My time is limited this weeken,I don't want to see 20 pages of pissant minutiae every time I come in here.

[S~V~S]

Hi Polo, you have been lurking in here since I got home about an hour ago. Anything I can answer for you?

[Ricochet]

Well, part of Rabbit and I sticking out so much is that not much else has been going on, relatively speaking. It's almost as if the Admiral's orders gave some the relaxing leeway of just stating their views on the three Cylons and schedule a return to discussions for later on this phase.

[Ricochet]

Might as well take a look at a player or two, and start off with the easiest one to ISO right now: INH. 9 posts since replacing, groovy.

Stated several times he's in ketchup mode. His vote pushed Glorfindel to 3 out of a three-way tie (rabbit / Wilgy / Glor) and was made to respect and requantify Silverwolf's intentions and vote. For what it's worth, both players who replaced voted exactly the way the original players did. Nothing to get out of this, really? Does anyone else consider otherwise?

[Glorfindel]

1. You should treat my Day six survival based on the evidence in front of you. Whether I claimed or didn't claim is not the point here and anyone who treats it so is being highly disingenuous. The FACT is that the result of the EoD6 was inconclusive. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is simply lying or openly making and assumption - their INTERPRETATION of what happened. It's a very simple principle, INTERPRETATION =/= FACT. You can try to cut it a million different ways, but it will always come down to that.

Thank you for answering, I will take this into account. You are correct, we are trying to interpret here what happened, it's the best we can do, in light of facts (mind you, not of what happened, but of why it happened) not being presented. I mean, if that's what you meant to say.

You imply that your claim has nothing to do with the inconclusive lynch result. I believe a counter-argument has been presented that you had no reason to claim at all, if you knew your lynch would have turned out inconclusive. It is not usually in the nature of town roles who can survive a lynch (or, say, save a lynch or stop a lynch etc. etc.) to try to mask it with a mechanics that raises separate issues with their survival.

I'd like to further push this side of the discussion with a question, if you'd be willing to phrase a reply in any way possible: Are you a Cylon? LoRab and Wilgy were forthcoming with this, after their claim and survival. How 'bout you?

2. My reference to Dex and Polo related more specifically to their actions post EoD6. I found the timing of their reigniting of the campaign for my lynching and their somewhat creative conclusions around the events at the end of that phase highly suspicious. If one were to look at both of them with a critical eye both for their previous actions and those since, I believe their is cause for wider suspicion. For example, we've been told by Golden that we are to have the benefit of some kind of 'communication from the dead'. This could yield critical information for us that may help us a lot (because, by God I think we need it). What does Dex do? Formulates an utterly unfounded (and untrue) theory about me being someone aligned to a 'Cavill faction', tries to enlist some of the more gullible members of the Town and places his vote on me. Does that seem like undue haste to you? Because it sure does to me.

Thank you for answering, I will take this into account.

Don't know what you mean with the part in blue, though? Are you referencing Baltar's new law or something else? Cause Baltar's law came on Day Seven, y'know. I missed whatever you say Golden told us, anyway.

3. As for the players that voted for me on Day 6, G-Man came as no surprise to me - he's made his feelings toward me very clear. I think he has a lot of potential actually. From my perspective, he seems extremely committed to the game and is capable of structured analysis that is fairly impressive. Where he needs to improve though is his conclusions. Bea, I honestly don't know. She's not someone that has found their way on to my radar yet. I know a couple of people have accused her but I'd need to go back and ISO her - she seems rather innocuous (that is not meant in any kind of offensive way, by the way) to me. I suspect that assuming that she is Town, she's like most everyone here - G-Man or Dex bangs a drum and they simply follow... Matt is a strange one however. I'd not doubted him at all to that point and found his jumping on my wagon to be rather... disappointing. It seems to me that like Sig, he seems to just drop into this game from time to time and I just wonder if he's really 'connected' to what's been happening here. I like however the perspective that he brings to this game and he seems genuinely open to different opinions on the game and is willing to come up with his own ideas on the game which I take as a good sign.

Thank you for answering, I will take this into account.

4. On the contrary, the players that voted for Sig bother me a great deal. I'm struggling a little with Rabbit seeing that Zebs whom he replaced (and who had some history with me where we actively read one another accurately) was supportive of me and he (having not played with me before) seems to have taken an alternative view. If I were in his shoes, I think I should be more cautious in abandoning my predecessor's comments and views. Having said that, he appears to be under some pressure himself right now so perhaps I'm a convenient diversion As for Drumbeats, I subscribe to Epi's opinions and think there is a strong likelihood that he may be Mafia.

Thank you for answering, I will take this into account. My issue was that you were fast to point out suspects that had voted real early in the Day Six proceedings, compared to players who might actually have tried to contributed to whether you or sig would get the lynch ticket. That simply seemed a weird perspective and prioritizing in your suspicion listing.

You are not the only ones who invest a lot of energy and who make sacrifices to find time to contribute to this game. I give up a lot of my free time to play these games with you all just like you do. You are not on your own in your commitment to this game. In addition, I extend respect to each of you in the way I interact with you and I would appreciate you extending the same courtesy to me. Thanks.

I respect the players I play Mafia with on this website. It may not look that way, but I respect even the players I appear confrontational with. The confrontation itself stems purely from being engaged head on into the game. Maybe you do not adhere to this, but there are countless reasons why I might, for instance, try to push the limits of discussion, and none of them is trying to disrespect my rebuttal opponent. For me, emotional distancing manifests itself in many ways and is necessary in a Mafia game. So when I may express that an emotional appeal you've made is not relevant to my interpretation of game situations, it's just that: I cannot add it to my analysis. When I may express that I can't embrace a "downer" attitude regarding the town's chances, I'm merely saying I can't let this attitude affect my personal game, not to imply that you invest any less, because you embrace a dispirited viewpoint.

So Say We All!

Thanks, my friend Just addressing your last remark first, I totally understand your attitude to this game and I respect that you stick with what you believe works for you and that's fine. I was simply making the point that it is possible for us all to interact with each way in a civil manner despite our personal views of each other's guilt or innocence. Again, I appreciate your perspective and I thank you for addressing that for me.

Going back again to the EoD6 lynch result, I accept the counter argument that my claim MAY (or may not) have had some bearing on the outcome but you (genuinely) unlike certain others (who maliciously) are missing the point I'm making here - there is simply NO CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE that my claim made any difference to the outcome. The fact that people here are jumping to the conclusion based on what can only be speculation that it did is disingenuous and is evidence that we have a Town team operating not on FACTS as they see before them but a biased version of them. I honestly and genuinely don't think I can be any clearer about this. As to what I did and when I did it, that is my concern. Despite what it might have looked like, I find it troubling that (I think other than perhaps yourself, if my memory serves) nobody has been willing to even consider the possibility that it wasn't relevant - given that there was no proof that it was.

In relation to your blue remark, this was Golden's post to which I referred:

The president of the colonies has enacted a new law:

Wills of the Dead Act: Deceased players will have their last will and testament publicly read. Any deceased players may send one sentence to the host each night to be published in the thread the following day, which may be on topic but may not be longer than 25 words. All sentences received will be published together and will not be attributed.

Looking at it now, I can see I misinterpreted it as I thought it may have related to players that were already deceased. Oopsy! Sorry about that. Please disregard that

[Glorfindel]

Spoiler: show

SO SAY WE ALL!

Whatever happened at the end of the last Day phase achieved one extremely important thing - it disrupted the Mafia's plans and gave us a valuable opportunity to step back and re-assess what is happening here. Whoever was responsible for that (assuming that it wasn't an 'event') has I think seriously overestimated the ability of the Town to see anything objectively. I think now it will take nothing short of a miracle for us to avoid losing this game...

I'm going to vote for you if you don't start being more specific.

Who is the Mafia and what were their plans?

If you have a valuable opportunity to reassess what is happening here, why can't you state what your assessment is?

Why do civilians need a miracle to win at this stage?

So Say We All!
Pardon my sarcasm here but I thought you were already voting for me (when you're not voting for Drumbeats who in my estimation is a far better bet). The Mafia are our opponents and they are trying to defeat us and in my estimation doing a fine job so far. They would be the ones capitalizing on the (niave, in my opinion) anti-Cylon sentiment that has been rife so far this game. They have very successfully used 'lore' extensively to advance their agenda. I've been saying this for days, it escapes me why you (and others) can't see it (perhaps I should give away communicating in words and draw pictures instead? :P Now before you ask me again, I don't know who the Mafia are (if I did, this game would be near over) but I believe the majority of the Cylons (contrary to popular opinion) are Town aligned. I don't know which ones aren't but I suspect it will be a minority of them - perhaps Cavill and one or two others, with two or three Humans, who knows. We haven't been supplied with that information so we're kinda stumbling around in the dark.

I really don't understand the Final Five thing at all. Sure, five Humans become Cylon but does that mean wholly or partially Mafia Cylon - hasn't been made clear. If anyone has any thoughts on that, I'm all ears. What concerns me is that so many players harbour anti-Cylon intents. To my thinking, these people fall into one of three categories:

1. Humans that have to believe that (I think you can deduce the identity of the specific characters from the index on page 1)
2. The Mafia - It is clearly in the interests of the Mafia Cylons to focus their campaign on the destruction of the non-Mafia (or Town Cylons) as it diverts attention away from the Mafia Human faction - which I think they've done to a remarkable extent.
3. The Town Human population that have been cojolled, hoodwinked, (insert any other suitable verb here) into believing that all (or most Cylons) are their enemies.

I hope that answers your questions - I feel like a voice crying in the wilderness here (not new for me actually :P ) that no one other than 3J is willing to even consider the possibility. In my opinion, we have a more dangerous enemy here than our Mafia team - it's our lack of objectivity that is hurting us more.

I don't understand this. Assuming you are not bad, I know you don't know who the mafia are. You saying this is unhelpful. However, you have made an accusation: That whoever the mafia are, they have "successfully used 'lore' extensively to advance their agenda." Your words.

Now then, that's a very public brush to employ. If that is your accusation, and you genuinely believe it, then it shouldn't take much more effort to name names: Who is successfully using lore to advance the mafia agenda?

So Say We All!

I find your question rather bizarre, Epi. You are one of the smartest people in this game and yet you find it necessary to ask me this question? I think it's fairly obvious that I think there's something up with Dex. His speculation about what players are which of our Cylon friends is I think disingenuous. It is also based on the presumption that all/most Cylons are bad - a presumption that I will continue to challenge because I believe it is at the heart of the Mafia campaign that is being used against us. It seems they are having no problems influencing the intelligent yet more gullible members of our team (e.g. G-Man) to follow their happy little tune as they lead us off a cliff... (Pied Piper reference... :P)

[Epignosis]

Spoiler: show

SO SAY WE ALL!

Whatever happened at the end of the last Day phase achieved one extremely important thing - it disrupted the Mafia's plans and gave us a valuable opportunity to step back and re-assess what is happening here. Whoever was responsible for that (assuming that it wasn't an 'event') has I think seriously overestimated the ability of the Town to see anything objectively. I think now it will take nothing short of a miracle for us to avoid losing this game...

I'm going to vote for you if you don't start being more specific.

Who is the Mafia and what were their plans?

If you have a valuable opportunity to reassess what is happening here, why can't you state what your assessment is?

Why do civilians need a miracle to win at this stage?

So Say We All!
Pardon my sarcasm here but I thought you were already voting for me (when you're not voting for Drumbeats who in my estimation is a far better bet). The Mafia are our opponents and they are trying to defeat us and in my estimation doing a fine job so far. They would be the ones capitalizing on the (niave, in my opinion) anti-Cylon sentiment that has been rife so far this game. They have very successfully used 'lore' extensively to advance their agenda. I've been saying this for days, it escapes me why you (and others) can't see it (perhaps I should give away communicating in words and draw pictures instead? :P Now before you ask me again, I don't know who the Mafia are (if I did, this game would be near over) but I believe the majority of the Cylons (contrary to popular opinion) are Town aligned. I don't know which ones aren't but I suspect it will be a minority of them - perhaps Cavill and one or two others, with two or three Humans, who knows. We haven't been supplied with that information so we're kinda stumbling around in the dark.

I really don't understand the Final Five thing at all. Sure, five Humans become Cylon but does that mean wholly or partially Mafia Cylon - hasn't been made clear. If anyone has any thoughts on that, I'm all ears. What concerns me is that so many players harbour anti-Cylon intents. To my thinking, these people fall into one of three categories:

1. Humans that have to believe that (I think you can deduce the identity of the specific characters from the index on page 1)
2. The Mafia - It is clearly in the interests of the Mafia Cylons to focus their campaign on the destruction of the non-Mafia (or Town Cylons) as it diverts attention away from the Mafia Human faction - which I think they've done to a remarkable extent.
3. The Town Human population that have been cojolled, hoodwinked, (insert any other suitable verb here) into believing that all (or most Cylons) are their enemies.

I hope that answers your questions - I feel like a voice crying in the wilderness here (not new for me actually :P ) that no one other than 3J is willing to even consider the possibility. In my opinion, we have a more dangerous enemy here than our Mafia team - it's our lack of objectivity that is hurting us more.

I don't understand this. Assuming you are not bad, I know you don't know who the mafia are. You saying this is unhelpful. However, you have made an accusation: That whoever the mafia are, they have "successfully used 'lore' extensively to advance their agenda." Your words.

Now then, that's a very public brush to employ. If that is your accusation, and you genuinely believe it, then it shouldn't take much more effort to name names: Who is successfully using lore to advance the mafia agenda?

So Say We All!

I find your question rather bizarre, Epi. You are one of the smartest people in this game and yet you find it necessary to ask me this question? I think it's fairly obvious that I think there's something up with Dex. His speculation about what players are which of our Cylon friends is I think disingenuous. It is also based on the presumption that all/most Cylons are bad - a presumption that I will continue to challenge because I believe it is at the heart of the Mafia campaign that is being used against us. It seems they are having no problems influencing the intelligent yet more gullible members of our team (e.g. G-Man) to follow their happy little tune as they lead us off a cliff... (Pied Piper reference... :P)

"They have very successfully used 'lore' extensively to advance their agenda."

Your words.

Dex is not "they." He is one person. If you are genuine, then you have more than one person in mind, and you don't regard G-Man as one of them.

Don't tell me how smart I am. Just answer the questions as they come.

First question: Who else is has "very successfully used 'lore' extensively to advance their agenda?"

Second question: Show me evidence from Dex's posts that he is using lore to advance a mafia agenda.

[Epignosis]

That first question should say, "Who else has..."

[Dex]

It is also based on the presumption that all/most Cylons are bad - a presumption that I will continue to challenge because I believe it is at the heart of the Mafia campaign that is being used against us.

Actually, I am constantly repeating my belief that there are four bad and four good cylons.

*Wields lore like a blunt object*

[Epignosis]

Third question: In one sentence, why did you claim Cylon?

[Glorfindel]

Spoiler: show

SO SAY WE ALL!

Whatever happened at the end of the last Day phase achieved one extremely important thing - it disrupted the Mafia's plans and gave us a valuable opportunity to step back and re-assess what is happening here. Whoever was responsible for that (assuming that it wasn't an 'event') has I think seriously overestimated the ability of the Town to see anything objectively. I think now it will take nothing short of a miracle for us to avoid losing this game...

I'm going to vote for you if you don't start being more specific.

Who is the Mafia and what were their plans?

If you have a valuable opportunity to reassess what is happening here, why can't you state what your assessment is?

Why do civilians need a miracle to win at this stage?

So Say We All!
Pardon my sarcasm here but I thought you were already voting for me (when you're not voting for Drumbeats who in my estimation is a far better bet). The Mafia are our opponents and they are trying to defeat us and in my estimation doing a fine job so far. They would be the ones capitalizing on the (niave, in my opinion) anti-Cylon sentiment that has been rife so far this game. They have very successfully used 'lore' extensively to advance their agenda. I've been saying this for days, it escapes me why you (and others) can't see it (perhaps I should give away communicating in words and draw pictures instead? :P Now before you ask me again, I don't know who the Mafia are (if I did, this game would be near over) but I believe the majority of the Cylons (contrary to popular opinion) are Town aligned. I don't know which ones aren't but I suspect it will be a minority of them - perhaps Cavill and one or two others, with two or three Humans, who knows. We haven't been supplied with that information so we're kinda stumbling around in the dark.

I really don't understand the Final Five thing at all. Sure, five Humans become Cylon but does that mean wholly or partially Mafia Cylon - hasn't been made clear. If anyone has any thoughts on that, I'm all ears. What concerns me is that so many players harbour anti-Cylon intents. To my thinking, these people fall into one of three categories:

1. Humans that have to believe that (I think you can deduce the identity of the specific characters from the index on page 1)
2. The Mafia - It is clearly in the interests of the Mafia Cylons to focus their campaign on the destruction of the non-Mafia (or Town Cylons) as it diverts attention away from the Mafia Human faction - which I think they've done to a remarkable extent.
3. The Town Human population that have been cojolled, hoodwinked, (insert any other suitable verb here) into believing that all (or most Cylons) are their enemies.

I hope that answers your questions - I feel like a voice crying in the wilderness here (not new for me actually :P ) that no one other than 3J is willing to even consider the possibility. In my opinion, we have a more dangerous enemy here than our Mafia team - it's our lack of objectivity that is hurting us more.

I don't understand this. Assuming you are not bad, I know you don't know who the mafia are. You saying this is unhelpful. However, you have made an accusation: That whoever the mafia are, they have "successfully used 'lore' extensively to advance their agenda." Your words.

Now then, that's a very public brush to employ. If that is your accusation, and you genuinely believe it, then it shouldn't take much more effort to name names: Who is successfully using lore to advance the mafia agenda?

So Say We All!

I find your question rather bizarre, Epi. You are one of the smartest people in this game and yet you find it necessary to ask me this question? I think it's fairly obvious that I think there's something up with Dex. His speculation about what players are which of our Cylon friends is I think disingenuous. It is also based on the presumption that all/most Cylons are bad - a presumption that I will continue to challenge because I believe it is at the heart of the Mafia campaign that is being used against us. It seems they are having no problems influencing the intelligent yet more gullible members of our team (e.g. G-Man) to follow their happy little tune as they lead us off a cliff... (Pied Piper reference... :P)

"They have very successfully used 'lore' extensively to advance their agenda."

Your words.

Dex is not "they." He is one person. If you are genuine, then you have more than one person in mind, and you don't regard G-Man as one of them.

Don't tell me how smart I am. Just answer the questions as they come.

First question: Who else is has "very successfully used 'lore' extensively to advance their agenda?"

Second question: Show me evidence from Dex's posts that he is using lore to advance a mafia agenda.

My (frequently) stated position on the composition of the Mafia team is that it comprises a relatively small number of both Cylons and Humans. They know (obviously) the identity of the non-Mafia aligned Cylons and it is not a big stretch at all to see how they would use that information to advance their cause. I have for some time been suspicious of Polo. His actions at EoD5 (the Wilgy non-lynch) seemed highly suspicious and following EoD6 it was he and Dex that together after a suitable period (for presumed BTSC discussion) launched into their reignited campaign to lynch me this Day phase - ably supported by the tragically misguided G-Man.

To clarify, my definition of the word 'lore' in the context of this game and my previous comments relates to any interpretation (whether reasonable or not) that any particular character aligns to either the Town or Mafia factions. As for Dex's reference in this regard, his posts this current Day phase alone are littered with such references. You are just as capable as I am of reading them so I am not going to quote and post them all here.

I would respectfully ask you to desist from asking me any further questions until such time as I can respond to Ricochet's previous post. I expect that you will find the answers to all your questions there. I trust that you won't have to wait too long. I appreciate your patience. Thank you.

[Epignosis]

I will wait until you answer Ricochet, as you ask.

[Dex]

Sig's vote doesn't show up homologated in the Voting Records.

@Goldama: Is this an error?

[Golden]

Sig's vote doesn't show up homologated in the Voting Records.

@Goldama: Is this an error?

Fixed.

[Bubbles]

*looks at poll* there can't really be this many Goldens

[Ricochet]

Thanks, my friend Just addressing your last remark first, I totally understand your attitude to this game and I respect that you stick with what you believe works for you and that's fine. I was simply making the point that it is possible for us all to interact with each way in a civil manner despite our personal views of each other's guilt or innocence. Again, I appreciate your perspective and I thank you for addressing that for me.

Going back again to the EoD6 lynch result, I accept the counter argument that my claim MAY (or may not) have had some bearing on the outcome but you (genuinely) unlike certain others (who maliciously) are missing the point I'm making here - there is simply NO CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE that my claim made any difference to the outcome. The fact that people here are jumping to the conclusion based on what can only be speculation that it did is disingenuous and is evidence that we have a Town team operating not on FACTS as they see before them but a biased version of them. I honestly and genuinely don't think I can be any clearer about this. As to what I did and when I did it, that is my concern. Despite what it might have looked like, I find it troubling that (I think other than perhaps yourself, if my memory serves) nobody has been willing to even consider the possibility that it wasn't relevant - given that there was no proof that it was.

In relation to your blue remark, this was Golden's post to which I referred:

The president of the colonies has enacted a new law:

Wills of the Dead Act: Deceased players will have their last will and testament publicly read. Any deceased players may send one sentence to the host each night to be published in the thread the following day, which may be on topic but may not be longer than 25 words. All sentences received will be published together and will not be attributed.

Looking at it now, I can see I misinterpreted it as I thought it may have related to players that were already deceased. Oopsy! Sorry about that. Please disregard that

Ok, got it. There is indeed not factual full correlation between your claim and the lynch outcome. But you should realize that the point I'm trying to make was different:

a. had you survived the lynch without claiming, the perception of what that at least would have been of a certain kind
b. yet since you claimed in addition to surviving the lynch, much of the perception is now influenced by your claim itself

Hence my previous question as to why you chose to claim and basically open yourself up to such perception. To be more blunt, a simple survival could have actually worked in your favor, unless such survivals happen to be operated by mafia (as counterbalance to town's own methods).

As for the Golden post, if that's the one you meant, then it proves exactly my point that the timing (Day Seven) doesn't add up with you finding it relevant for Day Six proceedings and what Dex might have tried, in your words, to influence.

[Ricochet]

Who has thoughts on INH? Anyone has a read or gut on him and his Day Six action? I for one am excited to be playing a game with such a mythical player. He hasn't posted much, in his time catching up, but I am sure he has the potential to contribute significantly.

[Glorfindel]

So Say We All!

I'd like to further push this side of the discussion with a question, if you'd be willing to phrase a reply in any way possible: Are you a Cylon? LoRab and Wilgy were forthcoming with this, after their claim and survival. How 'bout you?

Hey, Ricochet. Yes, I will answer this question for you as you ask. Given statements that I've made in my last two games here (I think?) I'm actually surprised I didn't get this question asked much earlier. Firstly, I want to preface my answer to your question with the following two statements:

A) My posts this Day phase have almost exclusively been an attempt to have those of you who are fellow Town members (be you Cylon or Human) to look at the facts here far more critically than you have done. In this game, more than in any other I've played, nothing appears as it seems. I've tried my best to challenge you to reconsider the common misconceptions that I've seen here in this game for seven Day phases now because this IS our only way out of the mess in which I firmly believe that we now find ourselves.

B) I am choosing to answer your question now and in this way because with only approximately 15 hours left, I believe this game is at a tipping point. If I am to be eliminated from this game at the end of this Day phase, I am convinced that it will put our cause (that of a Town victory) at a significant disadvantage.

Now, let's look at some FACTS.

FACT 1. I have never (to my recollection) knowingly and directly told an untruth in any Mafia game I've ever played and I have not done so here. Every comment I have made during this game I honestly believe to have been the truth to the best of my knowledge and best judgement. I know that every single one of you will dismiss what I've just said but you'd be making the fundamental mistake of judging me by your standards (please refer last game).

FACT 2. Yes, I am a Cylon (please refer FACT 1).

FACT 3. Yes, I am Town. This is what I have been driving at all game. None of what almost any of you have said has made any logical sense to me given my character and my role as part of the Town team in this epic game. I was too slow on the uptake and distracted by real life at the time to defend LoRab but I believe that she was telling the truth. I also strongly suspect that Nutella may also have been Town as well.

I've said before that I think the majority of the Cylon team are Town. Given all things being equal, had the 'Final Five' converted at the start of this game, the Cylon/Human ratio would have been 13/16 which isn't a realistic Mafia/Town ratio in anyone's book. Before Epi starts again asking me to speculate about which characters belong where, I honestly have NO IDEA and would question whether it is even relevant. I can't see yet what the link is between the members of the Mafia team. I can assure you however that...

FACT 4. What you believe about the composition of the Mafia team in terms of what characters they are is COMPLETELY WRONG. I am of the opinion that Rule 8 supports this:

8) It is not necessary for you to have knowledge of the show to play. However, at times, lore will play a role in the mechanics of the game, and it could provide an explanation for events that have occurred or provide you with assistance in what to do next. At times, it may be to your faction's advantage if there is at least someone on your side with knowledge of the show, but it will never be game breaking for you if you do not. It is up to you, the players, how much you choose to research lore during the game.

Whether this is intended to mean that the characters that make up the Mafia team have been randomised I'm not sure but I think it is a possibility that we need to consider.

Lastly, I want to thank those of you who have expressed your faith and support in me so far. I have not deceived you and I will continue to fight for victory for our team with your support.

[Epignosis]

You're not fighting though, nor have you been. You're saying "Everybody needs to look at things critically or we will lose, but don't ask me how that's done, because I have no idea." You're not, as far as I can tell, taking your own advice when you write these lengthy and deliberately "honest" essays of yours. The post above, for example, is nothing more than an evaluation of mechanics with more doom and gloom rhetoric.

You also have a habit of phrasing opinions as facts. Fact 4 is decidedly NOT a fact: "What you believe about the composition of the Mafia team in terms of what characters they are is COMPLETELY WRONG." That isn't a fact, and you literally use the word "opinion" in your next sentence.

As for total honesty, I just combed through your posts in Star Wars, in which you were bad, to detect any lies. I found no outright whoppers (you even jokingly validated suspicion a drunken teammate "articulated" against you), although there was this, in which you called people's suspicions of you "misguided," which would not be true since you were in fact bad. Whether you've unintentionally lied or not in Mafia isn't as important as your insistence that you try to maintain complete honesty in all circumstances. As disadvantageous as that personal goal may be for when you are indeed bad, the important aspect is that you have unequivocally declared your alignment...

FACT 2. Yes, I am a Cylon.

FACT 3. Yes, I am Town.

...and that is a point that will need to be considered.

++++

I want to ask you about this:

B) I am choosing to answer your question now and in this way because with only approximately 15 hours left, I believe this game is at a tipping point. If I am to be eliminated from this game at the end of this Day phase, I am convinced that it will put our cause (that of a Town victory) at a significant disadvantage.

Walk me through the events from Day 1 onward.

What has transpired that has you believing the civilians are at a tipping point? Please go through each Day and describe whether or not the lynch result was a good one or a bad one. I'll provide the list, and you provide the commentary:

Day 1- Epignosis (Athena)

Day 2- nutella (Simon O'Neill)

Day 3- Nerolunar (Saul Tigh)

Day 4- Lorab (D'Anna Biers)

Day 5- Long Con (Helena Cain)

Day 6- No one was lynched.

[ObscureAllure]

Vote:Glor

[Matt]

SokothQultuq

Wow, I looked in here to see when the poll ends, didn't even realize it ended tonight. I'm leaving for work right now, and I'm not confident enough to place a vote for anyone but the noob.

Good luck town!

[G-Man]

All of us seem to be preoccupied with holiday goingson. Is there any chance we could extend the day phase to allow for more discussion?

Bea, the purpose of my technicolor lists is to make it easier to spot things in the vote list. It may seems like a disaster at the Crayola factory at first but that's why I show two different formats of the vote list- one in vote order and the other grouped by vote recipients.

The biggest benefits I get from them are the ones that are easiest to see- gaps between votes for a certain player and clusters of votes for one or more players. For instance, Day 1 was very spread out and hard to read much into without other days to examine. Day 2 shows early momentum for Long Con followed by a few 2-players blips of action against Nutella, followed by and almost back-and-forth pattern between Nutella and Long Con votes. Day 3 has the huge early train for LoRab followed by the huge countertrain for Nero.

Spotting things like that help me dig deeper. Why did the thread seem to reverse direction so dramatically on Day 3? Well, LoRab claimed for amnesty somewhere in there. That explains the why and then I can dig back more for the how.

The technicolors also help me look for patterns or trends or other such strange or fishy behavior between two or more players. With a few days of voting, the data set is larger and harder to manipulate to sell a certain narrative. When a baddie gets lynched, we my lists make it easier (I think) to go back and look at their votes and see who they voted for and voted with.

I believe, after technicolor success in Biblical that baddies eventually give themselves away in their votes. It's not intentional but unavoidable for the most part. Maybe it's an early sideways vote to spread the totals around to cover for a teammate. Maybe it's getting stuck voting for one too many bad-looking civ lynches because they had to follow their faux-suspicions to the end.

If you think you're onto someone, you can test your theory by trying to write their narrative via technicolor analysis and fimd a way to weave it together to fit with the baddies that have already been lynched. It's harder this game because we're not being told if someone is mafia or not when they are lynched.

[G-Man]

A question for Epi, since I see him online. What are your thoughts on Rabbit right now? You suggested he was part of a save on Glorfindel at the end of Day 6. Have your thoughts changed at all? I'm running him through my technicolor analysis right now along with Glorfindel and Ricochet (since he was at odds with rabbit).

[G-Man]

And now that I post my question to Epi I see he's no longer signed in.

[Ricochet]

I'm here, though. What do you say of INH?

[Glorfindel]

You're not fighting though, nor have you been. You're saying "Everybody needs to look at things critically or we will lose, but don't ask me how that's done, because I have no idea." You're not, as far as I can tell, taking your own advice when you write these lengthy and deliberately "honest" essays of yours. The post above, for example, is nothing more than an evaluation of mechanics with more doom and gloom rhetoric.

You also have a habit of phrasing opinions as facts. Fact 4 is decidedly NOT a fact: "What you believe about the composition of the Mafia team in terms of what characters they are is COMPLETELY WRONG." That isn't a fact, and you literally use the word "opinion" in your next sentence.

As for total honesty, I just combed through your posts in Star Wars, in which you were bad, to detect any lies. I found no outright whoppers (you even jokingly validated suspicion a drunken teammate "articulated" against you), although there was this, in which you called people's suspicions of you "misguided," which would not be true since you were in fact bad. Whether you've unintentionally lied or not in Mafia isn't as important as your insistence that you try to maintain complete honesty in all circumstances. As disadvantageous as that personal goal may be for when you are indeed bad, the important aspect is that you have unequivocally declared your alignment...

FACT 2. Yes, I am a Cylon.

FACT 3. Yes, I am Town.

...and that is a point that will need to be considered.

++++

I want to ask you about this:

B) I am choosing to answer your question now and in this way because with only approximately 15 hours left, I believe this game is at a tipping point. If I am to be eliminated from this game at the end of this Day phase, I am convinced that it will put our cause (that of a Town victory) at a significant disadvantage.

Walk me through the events from Day 1 onward.

What has transpired that has you believing the civilians are at a tipping point? Please go through each Day and describe whether or not the lynch result was a good one or a bad one. I'll provide the list, and you provide the commentary:

Day 1- Epignosis (Athena)

Day 2- nutella (Simon O'Neill)

Day 3- Nerolunar (Saul Tigh)

Day 4- Lorab (D'Anna Biers)

Day 5- Long Con (Helena Cain)

Day 6- No one was lynched.

Thanks for replying to my post Epi. There are a couple of things I'd like to address from the comments that you made:

1) What I'd written is a conclusion that has come to me over the period of the last seven days. I think even I (to an extent) had fallen into the very trap that I'd accused our fellow Townies of having fallen into, in terms of assumptions about what characters may reasonably be expected to be Mafia or Town. If one accepts the possibility that the Mafia team roles have been assigned on a random basis, it changes the dynamic here immensely and based on that assumption I would want to revisit every stated assumption that I've made so far (e.g. GTH reads, etc.). And no, I don't know who the Mafia are - I expect only the Mafia know that... No, I can't tell you precisely what is required to examine the evidence before us critically but I can tell you what isn't - blindly accepting the views of people that step forward with "Based on the TV Series... <insert assumption dressed up as certainty>".

2) No, I'm sorry, FACT 4 is indeed a FACT. I have been forbidden to comment on this further under threat of Modkill but I think in time, you'll see it yourself.

3) You (players in this game generally) admonish me for my long posts (that are apparently devoid of content) but I choose the words I use very carefully. If you read what I said in my original post, I said "I have never directly told an untruth" in a Mafia game here. That is, saying that I am either Town or non-Mafia when it wasn't true. Nor have I done that in any game I have ever played. The quote you used above is NOT the same thing - and let's not pretend that it is.

As for your last question, I'm not even sure how to approach that. Firstly, we have six hours left before EoD7 and I start work shortly, Lunch probably won't be until after EoD so my time to provide you with an in-depth analysis is extremely limited. Further, I think we need to keep in mind that the list of those four has been supplemented by the six NKs that were certain Town. Briefly though, LC clearly my not have been Mafia but his agenda was clearly and obviously anti-Town (please refer all of my previous remarks about Mafia team composition). I believe LoRab's comments to have been genuine and that there is a high likelihood that she was indeed one of us. Magnus (Nerolunar) I think everyone generally accepts as having been Town although that's not necessarily conclusive. As I recall there was a conflict there between him and IAWY/DrWigly. If one accepts that DrWigly is one of us, perhaps things arn't so clear about Magnus' alignment after all. And, Nutella... This for me is a 'gut read'. It seems like it was weeks ago... From my recollection, one of the key elements in the case against Nutella was an alleged BTSC connection with LoRab. If one accepts the likelihood (or even the possibility) that LoRab was indeed Town, then it makes sense to me that it calls into question the case against Nutella and I would hope, the player/s that launched that ship in the first place.

I'd like to go back and review (particularly the Nutella case) in more depth but I honestly don't believe that I will have the time between now and EoD. I'm sorry.

[Glorfindel]

I'm here, though. What do you say of INH?

Were you asking me, my friend? Because if you were, I'd be extremely comfortable in my assumption of a Town alignment there.

[Ricochet]

I'm here, though. What do you say of INH?

Were you asking me, my friend? Because if you were, I'd be extremely comfortable in my assumption of a Town alignment there.

Rather G-Man in particular, given the chain of posts, but anyone's input would work. I find there myself no reason to believe otherwise about him.

[Ricochet]

This may sound curious, but what do you do when you happen to draw a mafia role? How does "never being untruthful" work, in that situation? Would you just truthfully declare yourself to be bad?

Really not sure how this "I never lied to anyone" angle is relevant to our interpretation of your game here, unless you've always drawn town in the years you've played and hence never had to be untruthful about being good - yet you have drawn mafia before, so...

[Ricochet]

As for your last question, I'm not even sure how to approach that. Firstly, we have six hours left before EoD7 and I start work shortly, Lunch probably won't be until after EoD so my time to provide you with an in-depth analysis is extremely limited. Further, I think we need to keep in mind that the list of those four has been supplemented by the six NKs that were certain Town. Briefly though, LC clearly my not have been Mafia but his agenda was clearly and obviously anti-Town (please refer all of my previous remarks about Mafia team composition). I believe LoRab's comments to have been genuine and that there is a high likelihood that she was indeed one of us. Magnus (Nerolunar) I think everyone generally accepts as having been Town although that's not necessarily conclusive. As I recall there was a conflict there between him and IAWY/DrWigly. If one accepts that DrWigly is one of us, perhaps things arn't so clear about Magnus' alignment after all. And, Nutella... This for me is a 'gut read'. It seems like it was weeks ago... From my recollection, one of the key elements in the case against Nutella was an alleged BTSC connection with LoRab. If one accepts the likelihood (or even the possibility) that LoRab was indeed Town, then it makes sense to me that it calls into question the case against Nutella and I would hope, the player/s that launched that ship in the first place.

I'm not Epig, but this got me interested in offering a reply. From top to bottom on your ideas:

-- town players getting killed is almost matter of self-evidence, there's no reason to count that towards a despondent view of the game situation. On the contrary, if we did well enough to not add ourselves to the town toll via mislynch, we are actively counter-balancing the mafia kills

-- I don't see any reason to doubt Saul Tigh's flip as anti-town; even if, at that point, the Final Five may have been awoken and this role remained one of the F5's, it's

-- you seem pretty easygoing on making bad/good, black/white connections: if we treat Wilgy as good, it must mean Nerolunar was shady? Uh, how about town vs town square-offs?

-- same connection issue with Nutella/LoRab; if anything, I find it backwards: LoRab was suspected for having BTSC with a nutella whose role revealed inspired the consideration of her being bad. LoRab likely being good does not erase nutella's role reveal and the perception of that.

Anyway, as far as your answer here goes, I'd say the reason you are prone to "gloom and doom" is because you doubt too much even the lynch results that are closest to be interpreted in a positive light for town (such as nutella's). I really find it strange that you would question Nerolunar's mislynch, but suggest nutella might have been one as well.

[Dex]

Briefly though, LC clearly my not have been Mafia but his agenda was clearly and obviously anti-Town.

Your - I believe accurate - assessment of LCs role is exactly what you'd expect "based on the TV series". I'm not sure why you think the case would be different for any other character.

[G-Man]

I'm here, though. What do you say of INH?

As I believed that Silverwolf was civ, so do I believe that INH is civ. Just because Silverwolf subbed out doesn't mean all the Ika-Silverwolf insta-read discussion flies out the window. Having seen it in a prior game, I have no reason or desire to doubt Ika's passionate defense of Silverwolf.

[Golden]

OK, apparently it's Memorial Day tomorrow.

So, is extending this one day going to suit people? Or do I need to make it super-duper long?