Battlestar Galactica Mafia - GAME OVER

#7701

Oh what the heck, I can waste another post, before filling ones with reads.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Ricochet wrote:For what it's worth, I'm not in lynch-Epig-because-Glorfindel camp, I say we determine Epig's status, because the lynch mechanics have not allowed for us to do so the first time (ironically, Epig happens to be the only lynched player whose alignment remains unknown, simply because he remained alive in the game) and because lore is out the window.

As for 2, underlined part, go ahead and do that with Epignosis. Here I think the Glorfindel factor actually brings a bit of weight. He capped the Glorfindel disasterhunt with his logic game. He shot down each one of Glorfindel's genuine attempts. He also mislynched Nerolunar and slept through nutella's lynch. The rest, at least as far as I can remember without researching back, is not conclusive.
Yellow: This seems to be directly at odds with what you said before (also in yellow below). Immediately emerging into this day phase, you promoted a lynch of Epignosis based upon the dynamic of how his alignment functions relative to Glorfindel's alignment. That's the rationale you provided. You even called it a "dichotomy", suggesting there's still any reason at all to establish a dichotomy between the two.

Oopsie, I seem to have completely derped here. I was focused on lynch-Athena-because-Boomerflip, but yeah, same thing. Don't know what my mind was buffering back then, tbh.

I also ended up pointing at Epig's hunt for Glorfindel, too. I'll wait to do a full-read conclusion, but yeah, rescinding that yellow comment.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Orange: Why is it critical to resolve Epi's alignment right now? Why is it any more important to resolve his alignment than the alignment of any other player who's alignment remains unknown?

Why wait? As I've said, we've given Epignosis carte blanche for pure lore for eight cycles after he was lynched. I'm not comfortable with leaving the alignment status unanswered, after the Boomer reveal. Are you?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:6. We've only lynched one known baddie the whole game. LoRab's role is unknown. Town is not sitting pretty and the perspective that it is needs to end. Red alert, all hands to battlestations, etc.
LoRab is D'Anna Biers, independent.

Agreed with the rest.

END OF POST 2
That's a character and an alignment, not a role. Do you know what LoRab's role was?

I use the word role to define character, not abilities. I use the word ability or (rare) power role to define "role".

Now that confusion is out of the way, why is LoRab's abilities being unknown a notable factor? Simply because she was independent?

@SVS

I'm still interested in hearing your strongest townread. Again, one person. A person you could even vouch for. Sorry if I missed you answering it.

END OF POST #4

#7702

#3

@Rico, I answered you here.

S~V~S wrote:
Ricochet wrote:SVS, would you say you're "100% sure" that "Polo is not that role", or simply you "don't think" that "Polo is that role"?

Also, what's your strongest townread atm? One name, please.
No I am not 100% sure; it is totally based on thread & impressions, not on anything i, or the thread, was told by the host.

Based on thread and on things she said (and on things other people said) Silver was my strongest town read. INH has not done anything to actively keep that up, but he has played a cautious game that I would expect MOST people to play were they a strong town role.

This has not changed. Definitely Silver/INH.

@S~V~S

I think you've already defended yourself enough that people's perspectives of you aren't likely to change much if you do more of it. I'm much more interested in what your reads are and who you want to lynch. Gimme the goods.

Yeah, I said last post that I would put that all in one post, I did not forget it. I will put in my full civ reads first, I want to read back a bit, I think I must be trusting people I should not. I am not sure what to think of the Kinda Final Four, Jules was Hot Dog, and Nero was lynched, so they were civ to start, but may have come back from the Pet Sematary seems to be the thought? Pre death the only one I felt less than civ about was Daisy. I also felt Faraday was bad, but felt MUCH better about Dex. But if we are to rejudge them, I don't have enough basis for comparision.

So here is a partial, I will finish it up after work. Civ

Black Rock

Dex

DrumBeats

DrWilgy

Epignosis

G-Man

insertnamehere

JaggedJimmyJay

juliets

Matt

Nerolunar

ObscureAllure

Polo

Rabbit8

Ricochet

S~V~S

sig

SokothQultuq

Spacedaisy

I am not sure about the rest of the names on the list. I feel MOST sure about INH, JJJ & Matt. A couple of them I still feel good vibes about overall, but not quite as sure. A few of the unrated names I used to feel better about than I do now.

I will qualify the rest later, I want to do some reading; it is easier for me to read at work than post. I don't think both G Man & Drum are civ; I think it is one or the other there. So for now I have them both in not sure. I have no idea where I want to vote; worrying about defending (Even though you say I have defended enough, I don't feel as strongly about that as you do

) plus these people coming back plus Glorfindel coming up civ and the pall that casts on lore leads me to think we need to reconsider across the board. That is why Wilgy came off "civ" to "not sure". So still not sure where I want to vote. I won't be voting for any of the green names today. I doubt I will be voting for INH or you ever.

Sorry if I am "robotic & emotionless" but I am trying very hard not to be a hypocrite. It is no fun when someone you like & respect calls you a hypocrite more than once in the same discussion, and when they are right. So I need to revise my behavior, and I am sorry if you do not like how it affects my game, but it is what it is

I am sure I already answered this, but:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:S~V~S:

How would you expect a civilian bea to respond to points like these:

Spoiler: show
S~V~S wrote:
bea wrote:Rico - ok. I admit. I've lost why anyone thinks he's suspicious. I didn't think he was bad for refusing to claim. His stance that no one should claim felt more genuine than oa's everyone but me claim. Someone highlight what was bad about him again please cuz I don't see it.

Svs - I got the civ feel from her early in the game and I've seen no reason to change this opinion. I'm confused by what she mentioned by I would have guilted her more by now. But yea. I think she is a civ. I respect her opinion and have agreed with her lots this game.

Sig - zeebs thought he was bad. Wabbit still does. He seems to only pop up when mentioned. I know he's busy and I know he's tricky to read. If someone can make a case for how he is Leboan or six I will listen but he feels like the best bet at Doval or Cavil that I can see.

Sok - trying and reading fairly genuine. I get weird vibes from him at times not sure if that's cuz he's new and I'm just getting to know him or if there is something more.

I believe we are down to two bad cylons. I've been working under the assumption that the lynch of those two will end the game.

I'm in and out today. It's day 1 of comic con. My phone is already at 77 percent.
I have made pokes at you, and questioned things you said more than once, since the Nutella lynch, really. I have said I was suspish of you. You have basically ignored all of it. I think you would have been a bit more at me for allof that. Either you did not see it (and you seem pretty well informed) or you ignored it. I think civ Bea would be more likely to pout at me & try to guilt me for those feels, and you didn't. I waffled a bit, but this really bothers me, tbh. You say you agree with me lots, but lots of my posts have said I find you suspect.

S~V~S wrote:
bea wrote:Svs - I remember addressing you early on. Outside of what others have said, and not being pouty enough is there something I've missed? Direct me and I will answer. I've taken the fact that you do have doubts about me as a sign that you were trustworthy. I know that seems weird but it is what it is.

Epi - there was a back and forth just before the Wilgy lynch where she and he both read me as civ and said they agreed with me. Then Wilgy said something along the lines of it being unusual that he and zeebs agree. She said "i know it's a magical game. " or something along the lines of that. Right before the Wilgy lynch I said something clicked for me. That was it. I could be wrong for sure but it felt like bts of the human and cylon kind.

That's it that's what I saw.
It is just your whole big picture. Starting with the Nutella lynch. You have made a lot of posts, and done lots of catch up, you just seem to never address the little things, although you are obviously reading the thread. You are playing the OMG I'm busy card more than I like for someone with as many posts as you have.
"You aren't pouting enough"

"You have a lot of posts and keep saying you're busy"

Bea is one of my closest friends, irl & as well as online. We have a way of interacting all of our own; this is how we talk to each other. She was NOT reacting to me how I would expect her to react, she almost seemed to be intentionally ignoring me. It is NOT what I expect from her when a cov; I expected her to snark back at me. When she kept going all wide eyed on me, it made me keep saying the same things to prod a reaction out of her. Lack or reaction = Not a civ in general. That goes both ways for she & I.

#7703

Spacedaisy wrote:
I did not know I was F5 until I was night killed. At that point I was told what my alignment was, so the Final 5 don't get the option who to align with, for the record. So don't base your votes on who you think we (the player) would choose align with, it has no bearing.

I just want to validate what Spacedaisy says here about not knowing I was F5 until I was nightkilled and being told at that time my alignment. There was no "choosing" which alignment to be a part of.

Someone asked the four who came back from the dead to make a guess as to how many of the five are good versus bad. Based strictly on my perception of how many baddies we would have versus how many good I would GUESS we have two baddies and three civ's. What I found in the lore indicates:

Eventually, the four arrive at Galactica’s gym and upon seeing each other the truth becomes clear to them; they are Cylons, four of the Final Five. When they learn the truth, they decide to remain loyal to the Colonial Fleet, because they thought they were humans for as long as they can remember, and cling to what they know to make sense of their lives.

which if true would mean there was only one baddie among the Final five if I'm reading it right. Some of you who watched the show can tell me if what I found in the wiki is right. I'm guessing though that Golden didn't go straight with the lore and made 2 of them bad. I am not one of them.

#4

linki

#7704

Post #4

Interesting. If what Nerolunar says about the F5 being told of their new allegiance post-death is correct then we can examine these death posts a bit. I am noticing that juliet's post about Epi is rather odd imo. This was before Glorf was revealed to be town, and Juliet's 180 turn about Epi strikes me as odd. It could have easily been that Juliets was given a new alignment and wanted to throw some shade on Epi or possible distancing between the two if the mafia F5 were told who their partners were. Nero's death post too pings me a bit. Assuring us that he's not evil in the death post and then assuring us that he's civ on his first post isn't a good look imo.

@ Dex
@ juliets
@ Spacedaisy

How many people in the F5 do you believe are mafia?

#7705

SVS wrote:This has not changed. Definitely Silver/INH.

Noted.

@Dex, @juliets, @Spacedaisy, @Nerolunar

Not sure if you can actually address this, so better consult with your nearest Hangman err I mean Host first, but I'll ask anyway.

In your first incarnation, did you know your alignment from the very start? I'm talking specifically traditional alignment such as "town". Tighnero, did you knew you were town until you got lynched?

=========================================================================================================================

Black Rock

Day One - voted MetalMarsh89 [22nd vote out of 22, putting MetalMarsh89 at 3 votes; Epignosis was lynched with 5 votes]

notable posts:

-- replied to a post by Epig in which he bantered about "forming an alliance", by saying she doesn't read him bad
-- only comment including her actual vote choice is a context-less comment on MetalMarsh "having hurt her feelings" and an input on MetalMarsh-Epignosis bantervote dynamics (from... what I can understand, at least)

Day Two & Three - pulling my previous notes on her, but removing any positive/negative/neutral appreciation of her steps (some may not even be valid anymore); some interpretations may also not be valid anymore

Day Two [24th vote out of 26, 8th vote on nutella, pushing her at 8-5 vs Long Con]

-- ping on LoRab
-- read on LC not being bad
-- lean on nutella comes off as slightly unconvincing, by saying she would have rather waiting for a connection between LoRab and nutella to be confirmed
-- votes to save LC

I find evidence to be relatively favorable to BlackRock. While her vote momentum could potentially be a buss move, her content wouldn't reflect that. Particularly I find that she blocked all means to ever potentially vote Long Con as a counter-wagon, by resolutely disagreeing with his lynch. It doesn't give me an impression of a baddie who would keep his options open. Her slight hesitation to judge nutella on her own does give me a bit of a pause, though.

Day Three [22nd vote out of 25, 8th vote on LoRab, although LoRab had long claimed; Nerolunar had 7 votes by then]

- justification for voting LoRab is that she doesn't think she is a good Cylon and wants to keep her technically in front

And that's pretty much it.

I don't find Day Three evidence to be inconsistent with her Day Two ping on LoRab, although I cannot say that I understand the justification of her vote. If LoRab was indeed under amnesty, hence every vote she took turning to ashes, Black Rock performed virtually nothing with her vote. Her lack of post and reasoning offers me no reassurance as to what she really intended. I could count this as a downgrade, since it could easily have been a wasted vote to take no stance in Nerolunar's counterwagon (on which she had made no comments all game). But I still don't think it's enough to switch her to a compatible teamie.

Day Four - voted Lorab (12th vote out of 23, 8th vote for LoRab, second wagon was DFaraday (past persona of Dex) with 3 votes, Sig third wagon hadn't form yet)

notable posts:

-- more defending of LC
-- Cylonclaim
-- comments on finding all Cylons evil, regardless of Cain's law enforcement; only exception of a loss would be Epignosis
-- lashes at SVS for hunting LC as Cain
-- votes LoRab, no added or revisited reasoning
-- reacts to Epignosis GTH of her "good and doesn't give a shit"

Day Five - voted Wilgy (16th vote out of 18, 7th vote for Wilgy, second wagon was Cain Con at 4 votes)

notable posts:

-- more defending of Epignosis, more backlash at SVS's objectives; heavy exchanges actually
-- decides on Wilgy for his claim and for not believing him to be good

Day Six, Seven, Eight - missed votes

notable posts:

-- still in exchanges over SVS, over not trusting Cylons, over voting Wilgy again

//////////////////////

So there's not much depth to this. The only ping I get is intense interaction with Epignosis, from him being the one Cylon exception for her to Epignosis coordinating or objecting to her process of discontent towards SVS. If Epignosis would flip baddie, this ISO part would look quite bad for BR. Before we get to that, can the rest paint her in some way? Her defending of LC - who turns out was pure town - was strong throughout the important phases, but since there is no Pegasus member in the roles (err characters) and Cain was not an indy type after all, I cannot conclude there is anything to interpret from this close relationship, besides in-game or personal reads. Her Day two vote could still be a bit too tardive and undecided, since she wanted to go over LoRab more than nutella.

As for BR's inactivity, I've had her as teammate in Syndicate Mafia, losing her to a third party vigi kill. Her being or dropping off the radar would not be unbeneficial towards her mafia team. But there's nothing conclusive to be said here, just keeping it in mind.

Now that she's back, I'd ask @BR if she still harbours great disdain for the Cylon race as a whole or has anything changed for her in dynamic?

Status: wary. Her nutella vote is not clean and devoid of wariness, her anti-Cylon zealotry could be hard distancing just as well as genuine town zealotry (maybe a character that truly hated Cylons all the way through in the show... but who?), her bond with Epignosis is something of a nagging thought, now that Epignosis' status is uncertain.

=========================================================================================================================

Dex / DFaraday

DFaraday, Day One - missed vote

DFaraday, Days Two and Three, quoting from the notebook

Day Two [23rd vote out of 26, 4th vote for zebra, nutella was leading 7-5]

- one single post about not feeling it for either Long Con and nutella

Day Three [10th vote out of 25, 6th vote for LoRab, LoRab had not claimed yet]

- one single post about finding it agreeable that LoRab was spotted as a potential Long Con counterwagoner for nutella

Ugh. DF is reaching borderline Bass levels of vexating scarcity of posts and reasons for his votes. But if trying to squeeze this rock a fair bit, this could look unfavorable for him. His zebra sideline vote is positioned at a critical point of nutella slipping to her doom. LoRab vote is out of nowhere and close to LoRab being forced to claim to save her skin. I am not liking anymore how little DF is doing and how hard he's making it to be found trustworthy. Critical Wag of Finger.

DFaraday / Dex - Day Four [9th vote out of 23, 6th vote for LoRab, his own second wagon at 2 votes, Sig with only one vote]

-- DF comes in just to vote, finds it worthwhile to vote the outed Cylon than take any shot in the dark
(DF refused to Cylonclaim -- pretty ironic right now, although, based on Daisy's notes, he didn't know

)
(Dex instead claims Cylon right away)
//// Dex from here on ///
-- would endorse lynch of Cain and reads LC pretty Cainish
-- GTH's Wilgy as bad

Dex - Day Five [5th vote out of 18, 1st vote on Long Con, Wilgy main wagon at 1 vote]

-- endorses LC or non-claimers lynch (incl. Wilgy)
-- repeated mentions of going aboard with Wilgy
-- repeated lobbying for LC's lynching (Cain as obstacle to a civ victory)
-- (Night Five) counters Spacedaisy's bad read of remaining Cylons and Wilgy, calls her out on it (potential baddie)

Dex - Day Six [4th vote out of 22, 2nd vote on Glorfindel, pushing him at 2 votes, sig eventual cw at 1 vote]

-- (Day Five) simple, but repeated suss'ing of Glorfindel as a non-claimer
-- would happily vote Glorfindel
-- fully opposes Wilgy re-lynch; heavy focus on Wilgy actually, can be revisited on page 3 / 6 for anyone interested
-- heavy focus on claiming / non-claiming controversy
-- (Night Six) fine with relynching Glorfindel; banter rebuttal to Glorfindel calling him suspicious; insists on Glorfindel being Cavil-Faction

Dex - Day Seven [2nd vote out of 10, 1st vote for Glorfindel, tied with SVS, Glorfindel would be main wagon anyway]

-- (Night Six) legacy-like endorsement for Glorfindel's lynch to be not "let up"
-- restates his Glorfindel case, proceeds with vote
-- exchanges with Glorfindel; applauds Epignosis' logical catch
-- (Night Seven) calls lynch a victory and says we are down to lynching two bad Cylons

///////////////////////////////////

Well, there is conflict between the read and events. How could Dex have been nightkilled and be bad at the same time? Plus, if we are to take in account Spacedaisy's information, there is no way to know if Dex has resurfaced good or converted and the reads of his first incarnation will not help.

But should discussion not simply stop at this, I find his focus on Cain Con almost as "sixth sense"-y as SVS's and don't know what to make of that, despite it showing up as a town mislynch now. His Glorfindel hunt is not entirely favorable - there wasn't virtually any meat on it on Day Five, then his three-legged case on him on Day Six, the way he put it, was part brushing off Glorfindel's poststyle and replies (contentless, repetitive), part being obtuse about suspecting the non-claimers, part POE and lore on discerning between good/bad original Numbers - but it doesn't have a malicious or opportunistic vibe to it either.

Plus, there is that comment from Glorfindel to be taken into account, in which he suss's Dex heavily, despite Dex having voted too early to actively influence. Back then, it felt like Glorfindel waffling. Right now... dunno, it could Glorfindel just naming a suspect like he simply felt it.

Lastly, just like BR/Epig, there is a Wilgy/Dex bond that could read worse for Dex, should Wilgy actually flip bad Cylon. His change of heart on him seems to have been based on picking up signs within the game content.

Status: Unknown because of the resurrection as Final Five, under the clause that what was in the past is moot.
Status of past life: Unsure what could prove his civviness, but also not inclined to "hmmm" him too much for his game.

=========================================================================================================================

DrumBeats

Day One - voted Ricochet [13th vote out of 22, pushed me at 2 votes, Epig had 3, all other votes sparse]

-- well thanks for that

-- only comment on Epignosis was when he voted me: "scumleaning" on Epig, but read too slight

Days Two and Three - quoting from the notebook

Day Two [25th vote out of 26, 9th vote on nutella, pushing her at 9-5 vs Long Con]

- agrees with JJJ's case on nutella
- votes nutella; doesn't find much in the LC angle anymore

Day Three [21st vote out of 25, 7th vote on Nerolunar, LoRab had long claimed, but had also gathered 7 votes]

- argument about whether to push Nerolunar ahead of not
- vote post with recap of his argument

I find evidence to be not indicative much, although I find Day Three evidence a tiny bit sketchier than Day Two. Nonetheless, I do not get a vibe of teammate stance towards nutella from his posts. They even got into a disagreement over scrabble logic and even that didn't give me the vibe of fabricated topic for the sake of the public. I'm struggling a bit to find the logic behind the argument he used in assessing the LoRab/Nerolunar situation, nevertheless I believe his strategy looks too spreaded of an analysis to be plausible as an intelligent or subtle baddie maneuver.

Day Four - voted LoRab [1st vote of doesn't matter how many, 1st vote on LoRab wagon]

-- simply calls LoRab "clear lynch today", expresses simple disapproval at Cain's law; slight hunt on bea for not claiming

Day Five - missed vote

Day Six - voted Sig [16th vote out of 20, 4th vote on Sig, Glorfindel at 5]

-- (Day Three) calls G-Man's case on Glorfindel convincing
-- (Day Three) would have prefered Glorfindel / bea over Nerolunar counter-wagon
-- (Night Four) read Glorfindel bad; read sig "reeking" bad (for not claiming and pushing Epig to do it)
-- (Day Five) sig top read
-- keep pressuring outed / claimers to be lynched (Wilgy over Sig first)
-- talk with Glorfindel about what there is known about Cylon alignments
-- puts Glorfindel in red (no real information, claiming refusal), next to sig (opportunistic claim, terrible game look) and Wilgy (better odds to be bad)
-- prefers siglynch, since Glorfindel has claimed; chooses between sigwagon and rabbitwagon (trusts the siglynchers more); repeated reinforcing of this idea to break a tie between second wagons

Day Seven - missed vote

no activity; later claims he was brigged for his third salute offence

Day Eight - voted Rabbit [10th vote out of 10, 3rd vote for Rabbit, tied him with bea]

-- dislikes both rabbit and bea, but leaning on rabbit for recent behaviour; calls a big case made by Rabbit "gross"
-- voted rabbit over bea, because bea had clearer answers

////////////////////

Well this is heavy content to interpret, especially towards the later stages. A lot of voting between two badreads, but for what it's worth, these badreads read long-term consistent. Only exception would be his Day Six intent to favor sig over rabbit as counterwagons, without strong badreads on both; plus, there is significant change of heart over rabbit afterwards, the kind which could read as a mismatch, but, for what it's worth, it's rabbit's pingworthy, suspicionworthy performance we're talking about. Going back to the Days Two-Three affair, his Nero push still reads sketchy, but, for what it's worth, the nutella vote on Day Two is still there, made without any embrace of a different direction, and, given the timing, could only be nitpicked as a busmove.

Status: civ with dirt under his fingernails or blendy mafia. I wouldn't mind more thoughts from others on which would it be.

=========================================================================================================================

DrWilgy

Days Two & Three - quoting from the notebook

Day Two [17th vote out of 26, sideline vote - 2nd on Epignosis, nutella was leading 5-3 vs Long Con]

~ Joins ths game. No stance on either wagons. Seems to follow sig's lobby to vote Epig.

Day Three [24th vote out of 25, 8th vote for Nerolunar, technically placing him 8-9 against LoRab, but LoRab had long claimed, so realistically 8-0]

~ Just as sporadic in playing. Banter posts, then votes for Nerolunar to "tie" him with LoRab

I'm getting an awkward townread out of this. Sure, he's loafing around and doing edgy vote moves without any background or reference. But I recall BadWilgy trying harder than this. He picked up the pace on Day Four, but his actual content looks more like darts thrown randomly at people.

I feel worse about his Day Two vote, because it could technically have been a spread vote, whilst nutella was in real danger. But as far as Day Three goes, I'd find it a matter of hilarity for Wilgy to think he's actually creating ties between LoRab and Nero, if he'd be aware of teamie LoRab being safe for the Day. Hence why I'm slightly reading him as a solitary player who's just goofing around. At least for now. Btw, IAWY's small log is also null on any nutella, LoRab and anyone else relevant in this scan.

Day Four - voted sig [20th vote out of 26, 3rd vote on sig, LoRab main wagon long expanded]

-- pretty much banter or shit reasoning for voting Sig (over LoRab, even)

Day Five - missed vote

Day Six - ObscureAllure [5th vote out of 23, only vote on Obscure, Glorfindel wagon had taken off with 2, sig wagon not built, he had no votes yet]

-- (Day Four) doesn't trust Obscure repeatedly... something about OA and Silver...?
-- (Day Five) GTH's sig, Obscure, Glorfindel all bad; repeated lobby for their lynch; lot of sig content; read on Glorfindel softens
-- still cool with lynching Obscure and sig; tired of arguing with sig over his readmafia of him
-- tries to talk with Obscure, but gets ignored; then calls an input from her "crap" and made with "little civ intention"
-- votes Obscure to push him as second wagon, in light of Glorfindel claiming
-- (post-lynch?) bothered by Drum saving Glorfindel

Days Seven & Eight - missed votes

-- (Night Six) sees 100% bad Glorfindel, 70% bad sig
no Day content; claims to have been silenced Day Seven

Also a lot of content here, but I'm going to go watch GoT now instead, because of massive headaches. This is mess to read, partly because of Wilgy's fluffy, giddy, ever-changing, chaotic ways of leaving notes. He has no conclusive votes except on a mislynched town Nero. He had an interest in lynching Glorfindel that always seems to have ultimately came off his table and his other suspects, whilst consistent, are players still alive we have no sure read on. Obscure hunt seemed slightly personal, at the moment of choosing her over sig on Day Six.

Status: There's nothing to civclear him. Day Two vote could still be spreading. I rescind my comment that goofy Wilgy is more civ-like Wilgy. We're nine cycles into the game now and Wilgy has played with different intensities and ambiguous results or reads.

I only wish I could pick up on whatever Dex has (...oh, are there others reading civ Cylon into him), but I'm not. With the latest Cylon alignment flip developments, I distrust the information that Conoy and Six are guaranteed good-aligned; maybe indie at best; maybe Conoy is mafia after all (if Boomer stayed civ, why would Conoy convert according to lore to something else than major season 1 scumbag...?). According to the F5 reveal dynamics, Wilgy can't be F5. I'm actually starting to entertain the idea that, if Wilgy isn't Six (and I see no signs of it, plus it was heavily disputed by others), he has slim chances of being a Cylon that can be interpreted on the good side, unless the original numbers except Cavil were all randomized, which I don't even...

END OF POST #5, BEGIN OF MIGRAINES

#7706

Post 5

Black Rock - Mafia
Dex - Civ
Drumbeats - Civ
Wilgy - Mafia
Epi - Mafia
Gman - Civ
INH - Civ
3J - Civ
juliets - Civ
Nero - Civ
OA - ....Mafia
Polo - Civ
Rabbit - Civ
Rico - ....Civ (today at least)
SVS - Civ
sig - CIV
Sokoth - Mafia
Daisy - Civ

I literally did this in two seconds, just woke up and I gotta go to work but here are some G2H reads. I dunno, I flip flop on OA and Rico constantly. I used to think SVS was a certain role and still would like to believe it, but Polo is hammering at SVS so hrm. Being forced to provide a read on Epi, I'd have to say at this point I think he's mafia. At the very least, the Cylons aren't as clear cut as we thought. I don't care if Boomer was "civ aligned" in the first season of BSG, she was most definitely not a "civvie" in the show, so for her to be town aligned means everything is up in the air now.

I trust sig, I think.

Anyway, I would rather vote Sokoth but nobody seems to be interested in getting rid of the evil noob sooooo

Epignosis

#7707

At long last, I can add alignments to the technicolors. I think it completely changes the way we can look at these in a good way. If you look at the 'In Vote Order' lists, look at where the different alignments were voting and where the gaps leave room for opportunistic baddie votes. Take that gap voter and look at their votes all the way through. Does anyone disagree that we can assume the remaining NK'd players were probably civ?

Day 1 still feels like a lost cause given how spread out the votes were and the fact that there were so many missed votes. Then again, with so many revealed players in the missing votes list, it might make it easier to look for the baddies in Day 1. Days 2-5 are prime for spotting baddie gap votes. The longer we get into the game, the more names get alignments behind them, the harder it is for baddies to hide their votes as the picture becomes clear. You can hide your bad vote in the moment but not forever.

I also altered the way Epi and Wilgy are listed. Don't forget to take a second look at their votes too, since they're still alive. Same thing goes for the Final Five. Does anyone disagree that we can assume they were civ before they were rezzed Day 9?

DAY 1

Spoiler: show

IN VOTE ORDER:

1. EPIGNOSIS (Metalmarsh89)<----NK'd
2. IKA (Vompatti)<----MODKILLED
3. MATT (Long Con)<----SECRET ROLE-Admiral Cain- Lynched-CIVVIE
4. POLO (ObscureAllure)
5. BLACK ROCK (a2thezebra)
6. OBSCUREALLURE (Nerolunar)<----HUMAN- Lynched rezzed as FINAL FIVE
7. EPIGNOSIS (Silverwolf)
8. DFARADAY (Scotty)<----NK'd
9. RICOCHET (Matt)
10. EPIGNOSIS (Ika)<----NK'd
11. s~v~s (Ricochet)
12. RICOCHET (DrumBeats)
13. MATT (Spacedaisy)<----NK'd- rezzed as FINAL FIVE
14. LONG CON (sig)
15. METALMARSH89 (juliets)<----HUMAN-Hot Dog- Died in sortie- rezzed as FINAL FIVE
16. RICOCHET (S~V~S)
17. EPIGNOSIS (indiglo)<----NK'd
18. METALMARSH89 (G-Man)
19. EPIGNOSIS (JaggedJimmyJay)
20. INAWORDYES (LoRab)<----CYLON #3- Lynched- INDY

MISSED THE VOTE:
Bea<----HUMAN- Lynched- CIVVIE
DFaraday<----NK'd- rezzed as FINAL FIVE
Inawordyes/DrWilgy<----CYLON #?- ???
Epignosis<----CYLON #8a- Lynched- auto-rezzed- ???
Glorfindel<----CYLON #8b- Lynched- CIVVIE
Nutella<----CYLON #4- Lynched- BADDIE
Sokoth

DISQUALIFIED VOTES:
Black Rock
Polo

PER VOTE RECIPIENT:

1. EPIGNOSIS (Metalmarsh89)<----NK'd
7. EPIGNOSIS (Silverwolf)
10. EPIGNOSIS (Ika)<----NK'd
17. EPIGNOSIS (indiglo)<----NK'd
19. EPIGNOSIS (JaggedJimmyJay)

9. RICOCHET (Matt)
12. RICOCHET (DrumBeats)
16. RICOCHET (S~V~S)

3. MATT (Long Con)<----SECRET ROLE-Admiral Cain- Lynched- CIVVIE
13. MATT (Spacedaisy)<----NK'd- rezzed as FINAL FIVE

15. METALMARSH89 (juliets)<----HUMAN-Hot Dog- Died in sortie- rezzed as FINAL FIVE
18. METALMARSH89 (G-Man)

2. IKA (Vompatti)<----MODKILLED

4. POLO (ObscureAllure)

5. BLACK ROCK (a2thezebra)

6. OBSCUREALLURE (Nerolunar)<----HUMAN- Lynched rezzed as FINAL FIVE

8. DFARADAY (Scotty)<----NK'd

11. s~v~s (Ricochet)

14. LONG CON (sig)

20. INAWORDYES (LoRab)<----CYLON #3- Lynched- INDY

MISSED THE VOTE:
Bea<----HUMAN- Lynched- CIVVIE
DFaraday<----NK'd- rezzed as FINAL FIVE
Inawordyes/DrWilgy<----CYLON #?- ???
Epignosis<----CYLON #8a- Lynched- auto-rezzed- ???
Glorfindel<----CYLON #8b- Lynched- CIVVIE
Nutella<----CYLON #4- Lynched- BADDIE
Sokoth

DISQUALIFIED VOTES:
Black Rock
Polo

DAY 2

Spoiler: show

IN VOTE ORDER:

1. A2THEZEBRA (Metalmarsh89)<----NK'd
2. RICOCHET (a2thezebra)
3. NUTELLA (G-Man)
4. LONG CON (Nerolunar)<----HUMAN- Lynched rezzed as FINAL FIVE
5. VOMPATTI (Vompatti)<----MODKILLED
6. LONG CON (indiglo)<----NK'd
7. LONG CON (LoRab)<----CYLON #3- Lynched- INDY
8. A2THEZEBRA (Matt)
9. NUTELLA (S~V~S)
10. NUTELLA (Silverwolf)
11. EPIGNOSIS (sig)
12. SIG (Long Con)<----SECRET ROLE-Admiral Cain- Lynched- CIVVIE
13. NUTELLA (ObscureAllure)
14. NUTELLA (Scotty)<----NK'd
15. LORAB (bea)<----HUMAN- Lynched- CIVVIE
16. A2THEZEBRA (Ricochet)
17. EPIGNOSIS (DrWilgy)<----CYLON #?- ???
18. VOMPATTI (Polo)
19. LONG CON (Spacedaisy)<----NK'd- rezzed as FINAL FIVE
20. NUTELLA (juliets)<----HUMAN-Hot Dog- Died in sortie- rezzed as FINAL FIVE
21. LONG CON (nutella)<----CYLON #4- Lynched- BADDIE
22. NUTELLA (JaggedJimmyJay)
23. A2THEZEBRA (DFaraday)<----NK'd- rezzed as FINAL FIVE
24. NUTELLA (Black Rock)
25. NUTELLA (DrumBeats)
26. LONG CON (Glorfindel)<----CYLON #8b- Lynched- CIVVIE

MISSED THE VOTE:
Epignosis<----CYLON #8a- Lynched- auto-rezzed- ???
SokothQultuq

PER VOTE RECIPIENT:

3. NUTELLA (G-Man)
9. NUTELLA (S~V~S)
10. NUTELLA (Silverwolf)
13. NUTELLA (ObscureAllure)
14. NUTELLA (Scotty)<----NK'd
20. NUTELLA (juliets)<----HUMAN-Hot Dog- Died in sortie- rezzed as FINAL FIVE
22. NUTELLA (JaggedJimmyJay)
24. NUTELLA (Black Rock)
25. NUTELLA (DrumBeats)

4. LONG CON (Nerolunar)<----HUMAN- Lynched rezzed as FINAL FIVE
6. LONG CON (indiglo)<----NK'd
7. LONG CON (LoRab)<----CYLON #3- Lynched- INDY
19. LONG CON (Spacedaisy)<----NK'd- rezzed as FINAL FIVE
21. LONG CON (nutella)<----CYLON #4- Lynched- BADDIE
26. LONG CON (Glorfindel)<----CYLON #8b- Lynched- CIVVIE

1. A2THEZEBRA (Metalmarsh89)<----NK'd
8. A2THEZEBRA (Matt)
16. A2THEZEBRA (Ricochet)
23. A2THEZEBRA (DFaraday)<----NK'd- rezzed as FINAL FIVE

5. VOMPATTI (Vompatti)<----MODKILLED
18. VOMPATTI (Polo)

11. EPIGNOSIS (sig)
17. EPIGNOSIS (DrWilgy)<----CYLON #?- ???

2. RICOCHET (a2thezebra)

12. SIG (Long Con)<----SECRET ROLE-Admiral Cain- Lynched- CIVVIE

15. LORAB (bea)<----HUMAN- Lynched- CIVVIE

MISSED THE VOTE:
Epignosis<----CYLON #8a- Lynched- auto-rezzed- ???
SokothQultuq

DAY 3

Spoiler: show

IN VOTE ORDER:

1. RICOCHET (Long Con)<----SECRET ROLE-Admiral Cain- Lynched- CIVVIE
2. SIG (Scotty)<----NK'd
3. S~V~S (Matt)
4. DRWILGY (Nerolunar)<----HUMAN- Lynched rezzed as FINAL FIVE
5. LORAB (Polo)
6. LORAB (a2thezebra)
7. LORAB (Vompatti)<----MODKILLED
8. LORAB (Ricochet)
9. LORAB (S~V~S)
10. LORAB (DFaraday)<----NK'd- rezzed as FINAL FIVE
11. LORAB (JaggedJimmyJay)
12. BEA (LoRab)<----CYLON #3- Lynched- INDY
13. NEROLUNAR (ObscureAllure)
14. NEROLUNAR (Epignosis)<----CYLON #8a- Lynched- auto-rezzed- ???
15. JAGGEDJIMMYJAY (SokothQultuq)
16. NEROLUNAR (Juliets)<----HUMAN-Hot Dog- Died in sortie- rezzed as FINAL FIVE
17. NEROLUNAR (sig)
18. NEROLUNAR (Glorfindel)<----CYLON #8b- Lynched- CIVVIE
19. GLORFINDEL (G-Man)
20. NEROLUNAR (Bea)<----HUMAN- Lynched- CIVVIE
21. NEROLUNAR (DrumBeats)
22. LORAB (Black Rock)
23. LORAB (Spacedaisy)<----NK'd- rezzed as FINAL FIVE
24. NEROLUNAR (DrWilgy)<----CYLON #?- ???
25. NEROLUNAR (Metalmarsh89)<----NK'd

MISSED THE VOTE:
Silverwolf

DISQUALIFIED VOTES:
SokothQultuq

PER VOTE RECIPIENT:

5. LORAB (Polo)
6. LORAB (a2thezebra)
7. LORAB (Vompatti)<----MODKILLED
8. LORAB (Ricochet)
9. LORAB (S~V~S)
10. LORAB (DFaraday)<----NK'd- rezzed as FINAL FIVE
11. LORAB (JaggedJimmyJay)
22. LORAB (Black Rock)
23. LORAB (Spacedaisy)<----NK'd- rezzed as FINAL FIVE

13. NEROLUNAR (ObscureAllure)
14. NEROLUNAR (Epignosis)<----CYLON #8a- Lynched- auto-rezzed- ???
16. NEROLUNAR (Juliets)<----HUMAN-Hot Dog- Died in sortie- rezzed as FINAL FIVE
17. NEROLUNAR (sig)
18. NEROLUNAR (Glorfindel)<----CYLON #8b- Lynched- CIVVIE
20. NEROLUNAR (Bea)<----HUMAN- Lynched- CIVVIE
21. NEROLUNAR (DrumBeats)
24. NEROLUNAR (DrWilgy)<----CYLON #?- ???
25. NEROLUNAR (Metalmarsh89)<----NK'd

1. RICOCHET (Long Con)<----SECRET ROLE-Admiral Cain- Lynched- CIVVIE

2. SIG (Scotty)<----NK'd

3. S~V~S (Matt)

4. DRWILGY (Nerolunar)<----HUMAN- Lynched rezzed as FINAL FIVE

12. BEA (LoRab)<----CYLON #3- Lynched- INDY

15. JAGGEDJIMMYJAY (SokothQultuq)

19. GLORFINDEL (G-Man)

MISSED THE VOTE:
Silverwolf

DISQUALIFIED VOTES:
SokothQultuq

DAY 4

Spoiler: show

DAY 5

Spoiler: show

DAY 6

Spoiler: show

DAY 7

Spoiler: show

DAY 8

Spoiler: show

I have to process this to see if any new reads develop out of adding the alignments. I'm swamped at work because I'm off the next two days. I'll try to get some reads out there around dinnertime. That's probably the next time I'll be able to jump on.

This is post #2.

#7708

#6. Ugh.

DrumBeats wrote:One more question, and this applies to all four final five revived people, how many of the final five do you believe are likely Cavil-aligned? Just take a guess

DrumBeats wrote:@ Dex
@ juliets
@ Spacedaisy

How many people in the F5 do you believe are mafia?

I feel like the four who have returned are two and two. The fifth is a total unknown to me.

Spacedaisy wrote:I did not know I was F5 until I was night killed. At that point I was told what my alignment was, so the Final 5 don't get the option who to align with, for the record. So don't base your votes on who you think we (the player) would choose align with, it has no bearing.

juliets wrote:I just want to validate what Spacedaisy says here about not knowing I was F5 until I was nightkilled and being told at that time my alignment. There was no "choosing" which alignment to be a part of.

This is how it worked for me also.

Ricochet wrote:@Dex, @juliets, @Spacedaisy, @Nerolunar

Not sure if you can actually address this, so better consult with your nearest Hangman err I mean Host first, but I'll ask anyway.

In your first incarnation, did you know your alignment from the very start? I'm talking specifically traditional alignment such as "town". Tighnero, did you knew you were town until you got lynched?

I knew my win conditions, which implied an alignment to me.

Ricochet wrote:Problem with the second paragraph is that Glorfindel was lynched on Day Seven and a cycle earlier he and sig both survived, with Baltar taking over as President. That's season three material, iirc. So we're not talking lynching Boomer that could have began the game civ-aligned. We're talking lynching Boomer that, according to lore, should be way past emerging as a villain.

The point is fair. I do think it's possible for the game to follow the timeline of the show in broad strokes, and for details to fall where they may, particularly in terms of character's deaths over which the host has no control. But I'll not belabor the point.

Ricochet wrote:But to hell with these lore technicalities. Game-wise, I could marginally see Boomer conditioned by some event or some trigger (or recruitment?) to switch from town-aligned to mafia-aligned. But then, for instance, why would Boomer be an automatic victim of Cally, should the latter have found her in her searches, unless we were to interpret Boomer as viable to become anti-town? Anyway, maybe, maybe an event never happened to affect Boomer's town alignment (it can happen in Mafia games: you design something to potentially happen and it never falls in place). We were deprived of knowing Boomer's alignment until now, we were too trustful of lore, nothing more we can do. I'm not comfortable with not knowing Athena's alignment anymore. Are you? Judge Epignosis' game, do you still read it to be civilian? That's what matters.

I hear this sentiment a lot, but there doesn't appear to be a way to do this short of lynching him, and if he flips civ, it's a mislynch. This is sig's "let's lynch all the cylons to see if they're civ". It seems like madness to me. Let's just lynch everybody to see if their civ!

Ricochet wrote:Frak the lore. Kill it with fire. I endorse JJJ's argument: defend Epignosis if he reads good to you based on what he has done, not who he is.

Fine. I'm a lore junkie, I don't know if I'm going to be able to entirely kick that habit. Pretty much since he flipped I stuck Epi in the civ-cylon category and stopped collecting data on him. I'll haul him back out, but I'm starting from scratch. I'm open to arguments and not in any place to defend him.

Ricochet wrote:Still haven't heard what I'm still mafia for, to you, btw.

Your bizzaro-world reasons for not claiming and our Wilgy debate whcih got rather warm.

#7709

8....

Dex, if you think lore has any thing to do with Epi allegiance, how can Boomer be considered town? Because she saved Hera with her final act? Which she claims does not absolve her of all her sins? Actually as I write this I think maybe they could both be civvie aligned....

#7710

Rico, you're welcome because it is true. And you are more than welcome to look at my previous life because my alignment hasn't changed. But I certainly do suck, lol.

Nerolunar wrote:
DrumBeats wrote:Post #2
Nero, can you please identify your wills for us?

I only made one will because I forgot to make a second. It was something like " I am alive, kill Cavil asap. Im not following the thread so I have no reads." Paraphrasing.

DrumBeats wrote:#3

Dex wrote:#5

DrumBeats wrote:I do not think I am comfortable with believing that both Wilgy and Epig are civ after the Glorf flip. Dex, what do you think in that regard? .
I am comfortable with that. What makes you uncomfortable?
Numbers. One more question, and this applies to all four final five revived people, how many of the final five do you believe are likely Cavil-aligned? Just take a guess
I think it's 2/2, and I also believe the last final five has yet to die. The Final five are definitely aligned with Cavil and not independent I think.

Dex wrote:#4

In which case, I'm back to defending Epi, based on lore. Athena was never mafia.
I think Dex is aligned with Cavil and Athena/Epi. Given the events with Glorfindel/Boomer and us labeling Boomer as evil due to the lore barely leaves option for Epi to be civ. I just can't see him be, the two Sharons are dual and cannot be civ together. Using lore as an argument yet again seems bold but still something I could see mafia doing.

3#

Did you just admit to being Cavil aligned here? If you were not Cavil aligned then you should know that some of us are civ aligned....

DrumBeats wrote:Post #4

Interesting. If what Nerolunar says about the F5 being told of their new allegiance post-death is correct then we can examine these death posts a bit. I am noticing that juliet's post about Epi is rather odd imo. This was before Glorf was revealed to be town, and Juliet's 180 turn about Epi strikes me as odd. It could have easily been that Juliets was given a new alignment and wanted to throw some shade on Epi or possible distancing between the two if the mafia F5 were told who their partners were. Nero's death post too pings me a bit. Assuring us that he's not evil in the death post and then assuring us that he's civ on his first post isn't a good look imo.

@ Dex
@ juliets
@ Spacedaisy

How many people in the F5 do you believe are mafia?

I believe unless I missed something it was myself and Juliet's that said this. Nero almost seems to be acting as if he isn't F5 which I find... Odd. It's the only way I can understand that comment I responded to above.

I would guess 2-3 based entirely on my guess about how he would have to keep the game balanced. Even that is difficult to say for sure given how ambiguous everything has been. I would be surprised if it were more than three or only one. So, yeah 2-3 probably.

@ Rico, I want to check with Golden before I say anything regarding the alignment question, I have accidentally tread too close to it before. I'll get back to you.

Post #2

#7711

Hmmm, I don't see how that statement is a slip in any way. I just don't think the evil final fives are independent, as someone proposed.

Being f5 doesn't really change much for me in regards to my place in this game, and I have known I was f5 ever since my death. Almost 2 weeks have passed since then so the surprise of it is long gone.

#7712

Ok, I will take a run at my reads but i can't say I'm very confident. I've lost touch with how many good cylons we think we have that aren't accounted for and other such details that would affect my reads. Think of these as more gun-to-head reads.

Black Rock: civ
Dex: F5 *if i am right in the ratio I guessed one of the three has to be bad but I don't know who.
DrumBeats: civ
DrWilgy: civ - Dex seemed so sure
Epignosis: Civ
insertnamehere: civ
JaggedJimmyJay: civ
Matt: civ
Nerolunar: F5*
ObscureAllure: mafia
Polo: civ
Rabbit8: civ
Ricochet: go back and forth on but leaning civ today
S~V~S: civ
sig: mafia
SokothQultuq: mafia
Spacedaisy: F5*

Also, someone asked about whether we (the returned 4) knew our alignment from the beginning and I need to chec k in with Golden to make sure I can answer that.

Drumbeats my suspicion of Epi had nothing to do with Glorfindel because I didn't know that at the time to my recollection. He wasn't NK'd, his votes didn't look good to me, and i started thinking maybe Golden had randomized.

#7713

Forgot to mark my last post. This is #5.

I am going to prepare a big exam tomorrow so voting now.

Epignosis

Not sure I will be able to check in for some time so state your questions and I will adress them upon my next read through.

#7714

G-Man wrote:Same thing goes for the Final Five. Does anyone disagree that we can assume they were civ before they were rezzed Day 9?

I can disagree. We can only agree if part of the original Cylons are the only mafia. Do we know that? Nay. Also, Nero was town. Juliets was technically working for town. That's about it, though.

All we know is all we get to say we know.

G-Man wrote:Does anyone disagree that we can assume the remaining NK'd players were probably civ?

:Shruggiest of shrugs: There's no reason to disagree, unless there are two teams.

Dex wrote:I hear this sentiment a lot, but there doesn't appear to be a way to do this short of lynching him, and if he flips civ, it's a mislynch. This is sig's "let's lynch all the cylons to see if they're civ". It seems like madness to me. Let's just lynch everybody to see if their civ!

I haven't said lynch every Cylon. I said lynch the number 8 we know nothing about for sure and for which lore is now scrambled, in order to judge him by it.

Dex wrote:Your bizzaro-world reasons for not claiming and our Wilgy debate whcih got rather warm.

Oh you mean the bizzaro-world reasons for not claiming, anAact that so far has gotten us one town and one independent Cylon? Huh. How uninspired of me, indeed, to have claimed that baddies will easily blend in with the claimers, instead of falling prey to the Act under lynch pressure and, hence, at the very least, I would make sure everyone has gotten rid of any possible amnesty, before fakeclaiming with the crowd. Huh.

And our Wilgy debate? The stuff about Conoy? Eh?

Shallow stuff.

Nerolunar wrote:Hmmm, I don't see how that statement is a slip in any way. I just don't think the evil final fives are independent, as someone proposed.

That's not what you said, though.

Nerolunar wrote:The Final Five are definitely aligned with Cavil and not independent I think.

So yeah, either you completely derped or slipped here - if the latter, most likely about yourself.

=========================================================================================================================

Epignosis

Days One and Two - missed vote

-- his Day One suspects were Beats, G-Man, myself; no mentions of nutella; no mentions of Glorfindel; no important mentions of Sig
-- Day Two, neutral comment to nutella on why G-Man was suspected; and this post, but I think it was rather LC who made the colored statements
-- not finding the LC lynch wise; then, fights with him so much, he plans to vote him punitively
-- players he rather questions instead: sig, Obscure; questions sig on why he finds nutella wagon worrying
-- even (post-lynch) focuses on sig's inconsistencies

Day Three - voted Nerolunar [14th vote out of 24, 2nd vote on Nerolunar, LoRab long claimed]

-- swift rebuttal on he didn't vote on Day Two, in reply to JJJ
-- comments on LoRab hushing rather than protesting to nutella's lynch, unwilling to participate in her lynch; post LoRab's claim, lobbies for either her swift lynch or a LoRab-nutella interaction scan to find yet a third name
-- calls out Obscure on trying to spread the votes with his Nerolunar vote and being disinterested in recent events (albeit forgetting that Obscure was smileysanified)... then proceeds to simply vote together with her
-- yet again doesn't suspect LC and won't go ahead with pressure voting him
-- calls out Glorfindel for picking easy suspects

Day Four - voted sig [16th vote out of 23, 2nd vote on sig, LoRab wagon long build]

-- (Night Three) fully endorses LoRab's relynch
-- conflicts with sig on issues of being forced to Cylonclaim
-- in a reply to Polo, is self-conscious that suspecting players for not voting nutella and voting nerolunar would be tad hypocritical
-- votes sig
-- shrugs off my comment on him endorsing LoRab's lynch, yet voting sig

Day Five - voted Glorfindel [12th vote out of 18, 2nd vote on Glorfindel, Wilgy at 4, LC at 4]

-- (Night Four, I think) suddenly an "evil" GTH on Glorfindel; shrugs off Glor's shock at him being labelled like this, then finds Glor's reaction too defensive and sensitive on a "real person" level
-- (Night Four, I think) "evil and overwhelmed" GTH on Wilgy; "evil" on sig; "evil with a touch of sinister" on LC; "good" on Beats
-- picks on whether sig's opening post of the Day having a purpose; calls sig's claim that Wilgy murdered Daisy "silly"
-- calls out Glorfindel to show evidence of him being insulted by his case-makers (such as G-Man); intent to vote on him otherwise; keeps picking on Glorfindel's wording
-- tells SVS he sides with her on the matter of lynching LC
-- lists Glorfindel and Wilgy among people nutella never talked about
-- asks Polo if he's positive that Glorfindel is bad
-- votes Glorfindel
-- post-vote thoughts: Glorfindel wrote too much, without actual suss'ing content; thinks LC is rather just "news"
-- picks on Polo for correcting Wilgy's incorrect claim

Day Six - voted Beats [8th vote out of 20, sideline vote, Glorfindel and Wilgy tied at 2]

-- comments on voting Glorfindel again; could also vote sig or Wilgy, among recurrent names
-- comments on Wilgy not being the priority (if bad, can be moped up later; if not bad, no reason to lynch him)
-- still finds Glorfindel fishy for delaying to write down his suspicions
-- opens up lynch avenue against DrumBeats (on him grilling Polo with something that sounds manufactured); further exchange
-- votes Beats for his shoddy methodology
-- picks up gloomy vibes from Glorfindel and questions him on them as well; heavy exchange around his poststyle and him being explicit about roles he finds bad
-- claims he'd vote Glorfindel, if he still could
-- keeps lobbying for votes on Glorfindel and Beats
-- when the lynch got complicated, called on Glorfindel being saved and Beats + Rabbit doing the saving; questions both sig and rabbit voting Glorfindel;

Day Seven - voted Glorfindel [6th vote out of 10, 4th vote on Glorfindel wagon]

-- (Night Six) comments on Glorfindel being his choice for the next Day
-- (Night Six) questions sig voting Glorfindel in light of believing him to be good
-- (Night Six) keeps pressuring Glorfindel
-- exchanges with Glorfindel continue
-- en passant comment: would still lynch Beats
-- inquires on a change of perception on Wilgy, in case Glorfindel is good
-- grand case on Glorfindel's logic in good/bad Cylons
-- votes Glorfindel; overboard with excitement
-- post-lynch analysis: Boomer must be bad and alone

Day Eight - voted Rabbit [7th vote out of 10, 2nd vote on Rabbit, tying him with bea]

-- case on rabbit
-- kerkufle with sig resumes upon sig sussing him hard

//////////////////////////

Woe the lore, for Epignosis is "evil". He had the Epig person to have no say in a lynch such as nutella's (and just sleep it off entirely), he had the smarts to not blindly pile on lynches that were now revealed to be mislynches (LC) or not real positive result for town (LoRab) and he had the words to pick apart Glorfindel for days, including a coup de grâce, and to develop some particular intense cases (sig, Beats) which to convert in minor or sidelining votes from time to time. But he is no less "evil" in pulling this off.

Status: evil

=========================================================================================================================

G-Man

Day One - voted MM [17th vote out of 22, 2nd vote for MM, Epig at 3, myself at 2]

-- bemused by MM's out of nowhere vote; votes him for being the only uneasy ping he got

Day Two and Three - quoting from the notebook

Day Two [3rd vote out of 26, first vote on nutella]

- lists nutella as possible mafia, claims she's giving him lazy "Deborah" vibes
- lists LoRab also as possible mafia, calling it suss by default
(lists Glorfindel as possible mafia, as well, in fact him being the original player to give him lazy Deb vibes)
- votes her despite a bit of an impulse to let her prove herself another Day

Day Three [18th vote out of 25, sideline vote for Glorfindel, Nerolunar had picked up 5 votes by then]

- relists LoRab as high suspect, but still mainly for the default suss; then, for her rebuttal posts not being up to snuff, apparently
- Glorfindel main suspect; case makes and votes him

In theory, I find that G-Man has done enough to prove himself a nutella hunter and not teammate indicative, in ways that his case and early vote would not sound optimal to push nutella in harm's way, if he were his teammate. The reason why most of the points above are deemed neutral by me is that there's not much substance to them: vibes of a lazy baddie; finding someone suspicious by default (repeatedly). On the plus side, there's consistency and reasoning behind his votes, there has been no inclination to join the talk on Nero or entertain the suss on him, there's effort even behind taking a third route such as lone voting Glorfindel. There is not too much to be wary about G-Man in here, tbh.

Day Four - missed vote

no activity either, RL stuff

Day Five - voted Glorfindel [10th vote out of 19, 1st vote on him, Wilgy at 4, LC at 2]

-- (Night Four) Glorfindel still reads bad
-- Glorfindel and Sig top suspects
-- casemaking galore
-- finds a rebuttal from Glorfindel a "total non-answer"... or "high-brow" or "pre-defense"... or "steaming pile of BS"... even finds Glor trying to put a gallant response to make him look like a jerk
-- rebuttal to MM about his pursuit being sincere

Day Six - voted Glorfindel [13th vote out of 20, 5th vote on him, Wilgy at 2, sig at 1]

-- [not sure (titles might be screwed, but) likely Day Six] exhaustive reads, but pressure kept on Glorfindel
-- exchange with zebra
-- votes Glorfindel
-- suss's players who may have worked against a Glor lynch: rabbit and Beats

Day Seven - voted Glorfindel [8th vote out of 10, 6th vote on him, no major counterwagon]

... and further Glorfindel

Day Eight - voted Beats [8th vote out of 10, 2nd vote on him, R8 and beat at 2]

-- revisited suspicions on Beats, mixed with voting record

/////////////////////

I apologise, actually, for such a summary, but the Glorfindel content is just immense; there's like three pages of content for anyone to try to plough through. Based on the nutella notes, I still don't find that vote and vibey-case speaking against G-Man, or at least can't project him doing that only to end up watch her catch on fire. As for Glorfindel, this is not doubt some massive poop he stepped into and he should deserve scrutiny for pushing for such a lynch, so long, sometimes without much focus on anything else; I think MetalMarsh even picked up on his tunnel vision, after which G-Man did a full list of reads the next day. Maybe this could be fine tuning, maybe not. I also find G-Man to have been very harsh, at times, in the whole hunter-hunted exchange. To every prolix reply by Glorfindel, an "is this supposed to be serious" or "is anyone supposed to buy this" comment from G-Man would almost complement the form. Biggest question, however, is: could G-Man have plunged into such a hunt, as a baddie, without any safety net or attention to moderation. Early perception of him wasn't great, so could this all be a strong show put forth, against the clock, RL and everything, in order to show intense effort, strong hunting and the likes? Not sure I can project this right now, at the very least it's a large bubble of WIFOM.

Might revisit this in even greater detail, but simply can't afford it today, in the time remaining.

Status: could he?

#7715

Fourth.

Ricochet wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Orange: Why is it critical to resolve Epi's alignment right now? Why is it any more important to resolve his alignment than the alignment of any other player who's alignment remains unknown?
Why wait? As I've said, we've given Epignosis carte blanche for pure lore for eight cycles after he was lynched. I'm not comfortable with leaving the alignment status unanswered, after the Boomer reveal. Are you?

Whose alignment are you comfortable not knowing?

Okay. So you lynch me. I'm good.

Then...what? You get to be comfortable?

Fuck that noise.

++++

Spoiler: show

You are a wellspring of care and critical thought.

++++

Nerolunar wrote:Forgot to mark my last post. This is #5.

I am going to prepare a big exam tomorrow so voting now.

Epignosis

Not sure I will be able to check in for some time so state your questions and I will adress them upon my next read through.

I don't mind a good old fashioned revenge vote, but this makes no sense:

Nerolunar wrote:I think it's 2/2, and I also believe the last final five has yet to die. The Final five are definitely aligned with Cavil and not independent I think.

The Final Five are definitely aligned with Cavil? Aren't you one of them?

...unless you mean "the fifth person," but then why would you assume the fifth person is automatically bad?

++++

I think Nerolunar came back bad. He said "2/2," but he plopped a vote onto me.

Think about this.

If two of the returning people are good and two of the returning people are bad, then Nerolunar should recognize that, if he himself is one of them good ones, he has a two in three chance of nailing someone bad by voting for one of the returning people.

He does not consider this. If Nerolunar genuinely believes what he was saying, and Nerolunar is one of the two good ones, he should be trying to work out which two of the three are bad. Instead, he voted for me and took a powder.

++++

Ricochet wrote:Woe the lore, for Epignosis is "evil". He had the Epig person to have no say in a lynch such as nutella's (and just sleep it off entirely), he had the smarts to not blindly pile on lynches that were now revealed to be mislynches (LC) or not real positive result for town (LoRab) and he had the words to pick apart Glorfindel for days, including a coup de grâce, and to develop some particular intense cases (sig, Beats) which to convert in minor or sidelining votes from time to time. But he is no less "evil" in pulling this off.

Status: evil

I don't miss votes on purpose. Ever. Not for strategy or to hide. I don't lie about real life either. If you don't believe either of those things are true, that's fine. I'm not going to argue with you about it.

However, you are painting me with two different brushes. I didn't pile on bad lynches...but I spearheaded two of them. I do not get the impression that you are being genuine in your treatment of my vote history. When I don't vote, it was deliberate, when I vote away from the lynch victim, it was having "smarts," and when I do vote for the lynch victim, it was having "the words" and a "coup de grâce."

You are spinning the data to fit your conclusion, mate.

++++

A word about the Glorfindel lynch, for those who have retained their thinking caps.

I narrowed Glorfindel's role down to three machines. Cavil was one of those three. Boomer (the correct role) was another.

How many of you in my shoes (go ahead and assume I'm good for this exercise) would have refrained from lynching Glorfindel?

Say what you want with the benefit of hindsight, but I was damn proud of my little find.

++++

I am almost guaranteed the votes of sig and Ricochet, so that puts me at four.

++++

#7716

Rico, i heard back from Golden and my answer to your question regarding what I knew in the beginning is the same as Dex's answer. I knew my win conditions which implied alignment.

Last post was #5 (I forgot to label)
This post is #6

#7717

Epignosis wrote:Whose alignment are you comfortable not knowing?

Uh, yours.

You say Athena and Boomer can still be treated independently. I can accept this. By this, Boomer, independently, turned out town, which makes lore completely unreliable. Should lore still be completely reliable in your case, then? I don't see why. Hence if lore has become completely unreliable in your case, as well, what should I make of you, Athena, independently, and how?

If the answer to "how" is to look at the gameplay, I believe I have, satisfactorily.

Epignosis wrote:I think Nerolunar came back bad. He said "2/2," but he plopped a vote onto me.

Think about this.

If two of the returning people are good and two of the returning people are bad, then Nerolunar should recognize that, if he himself is one of them good ones, he has a two in three chance of nailing someone bad by voting for one of the returning people.

He does not consider this. If Nerolunar genuinely believes what he was saying, and Nerolunar is one of the two good ones, he should be trying to work out which two of the three are bad. Instead, he voted for me and took a powder.

I could be inclined to agree with this, because I also picked on Nerolunar's comment being either major derp or strangely suspicious. A couple of issues, however:

1) What you say should then be consistently requested from all Final Five. I believe all of them have expressed views on how many F5's could turn mafia and it so happens that Nerolunar is now not the only one that's, technically, in the same pickle.

Spacedaisy wrote:I would guess 2-3 based entirely on my guess about how he would have to keep the game balanced. Even that is difficult to say for sure given how ambiguous everything has been. I would be surprised if it were more than three or only one. So, yeah 2-3 probably.

So that's 2-3 out of 5, meaning that, according to your logic, if Spacedaisy is one of the good ones, she should have the incentive to work out which of the others. At worst, it could mean she's the only good one among the resurrected F5s. At best, it means 1 resurrected and 1 dormant.

Juliets went softer:

Juliets wrote:Someone asked the four who came back from the dead to make a guess as to how many of the five are good versus bad. Based strictly on my perception of how many baddies we would have versus how many good I would GUESS we have two baddies and three civ's. What I found in the lore indicates:

<loresnip>

which if true would mean there was only one baddie among the Final five if I'm reading it right. Some of you who watched the show can tell me if what I found in the wiki is right. I'm guessing though that Golden didn't go straight with the lore and made 2 of them bad. I am not one of them.

So she's not bad, meaning there's either two baddies to hunt for out of the other three resurrected ones or just one resurrected baddie (and the other is the dormant fifth).

Incidentally, Dex went for the safest possible answer to this question:

Dex wrote:I'm guessing that not all Final Five are civ, but as they re-appeared just today we really have had no time to get any reads on them. Knowing my own situation, however, I'm willing to start by giving them the benefit of the doubt.

So, while I realize Nerolunar was the most precise in his projection ("2/2"), the number of two baddie F5s or even three(!) has been brought up by two other players. So, under consistency principles, you'd basically have to ask each F5 member except Dex to focus on figuring out the baddies within their special ranks, instead of "plopping" votes onto others.

You're basically suggesting the Final Five should just pick each other apart.

2) Even so, how do you suggest any of them do try "to work out which" of the others "are bad"? According to the implications, their first incarnation's alignment is not relevant to how they might have resurrected. Which would mean that they just started this game anew. So how could they discern?

Your suggestion was for Nerolunar (but let's expand to all of them) to take the "chance of nailing someone bad by voting for one of the returning people." That's... just playing the chance card.

How would you try to discern right now between the F5s? How can we, the non-F5 players? What material is there right now to do that?

Epignosis wrote:I don't miss votes on purpose. Ever. Not for strategy or to hide. I don't lie about real life either. If you don't believe either of those things are true, that's fine. I'm not going to argue with you about it.

I can gladly rescind this argument, because it came off, without my intention, as putting too much emphasis on it, from the statistical evidence that you missed votes (for stated reason of falling asleep, at least on Day Two) to the conclusion excerpt implication that you would "sleep it off". Even I missed two votes due to sleep problems, so it wouldn't befit to make a compelling argument out of this issue.

You did not address the part of having no say in nutella's lynch. I remember you even listing player nutella never mentioned. But turn that around and you're not in a good position, either.

Epignosis wrote:However, you are painting me with two different brushes. I didn't pile on bad lynches...but I spearheaded two of them.

I'll finetune this, then. You spearheaded two mislynches and wavered on others. On and off, on and off on LC. And that part where you went from "lynch LoRab no question" to "my vote is Sig" on Day Four, I've called you out on it before.

Epignosis wrote: I do not get the impression that you are being genuine in your treatment of my vote history.

That's alright, you considered me to be "bullshitting" with my efforts this entire game, so what's new?

Am I slightly paranoid in regards to your status, following the unexpected twist in Boomer's alignment? I might well be, a bit, yes. I'd comment on who you could thank that for, but it's a matter of post-game, rather.

Have I nonetheless headed back to judging your game throughout eight cycles and found it lacking? I believe I have.

Epignosis wrote:A word about the Glorfindel lynch, for those who have retained their thinking caps.

I narrowed Glorfindel's role down to three machines. Cavil was one of those three. Boomer (the correct role) was another.

How many of you in my shoes (go ahead and assume I'm good for this exercise) would have refrained from lynching Glorfindel?

Say what you want with the benefit of hindsight, but I was damn proud of my little find.

And which part of this wouldn't possibly fall under the "coup de grace" of sealing Glorfindel's faith?

Plus, you aptly point out that Cavil could have easily been the correct end result of your logical deduction, but if you are Cavil-aligned, you'd know that there's no chance of Glorfindel flipping Cavil.

PREVIOUS POST OF MINE WAS #6

END OF POST #7 (well what the heck, I don't have any expectations to manage to finish reading 12 more people in the next four hours, it now being 1:40am; this is pretty much the hardest law I've had to abide by, but hey, not all Presidents are destined to be great...)

#7718

So say we all!

I'd like to go on the record as saying I'm not a big fan of GTH reads which have become a thing during my hiatus from the site. Most of the reads on mine will be civ, because I only suspect a handful of people, so I'm not sure how useful these are gonna be.

Black Rock – Good
Dex – Good
Drumbeats – Good
DrWilgy - Bad
Epignosis – Bad
G-Man – Good
Sokoth – Bad
JaggedJimmyJay – Good
Juliets – Good
Matt – Good
Nerolunar – Good
ObscureAllure – Good
Polo – Good
Rabbit8 – Good
Richochet – Good
S~V~S – Bad
Sig – Good
SpaceDaisy – Good

Yesterday, I found SVS a little suspicious, but I was willing to trust her and bea. Look how that turned out. So she's someone I'm definitely looking at.
With all the cylons, I think we should adopt a guilty until proven innocent attitude. Just statistically, they are way more likely to be bad, as I'd guess only a small number are good. So the fact that he's a cylon plus Rico's solid case on him makes me want to vote for Epignosis today. I'm also not trusting indiglo's passionate support of Wilgy, but he's not at the top of my shitlist for today. I still find Sokoth suspicious for pretty much the same reasons I said yesterday, but it's a weak read compared to SVS and Epi.

#7719

Admiral wants us to post reads and cut to the chase. For that reason, I'm going to eliminate neutral/unsure reads for all except the four rezzed player. These GTH-esque classifications are based on votes and notes.

Black Rock- Bad
Dex- ?
DrumBeats- Bad
DrWilgy- Good
Epignosis- Good
insertnamehere- Good
JaggedJimmyJay- Good
juliets- ?
Matt- Good
Nerolunar- ?
ObscureAllure- Good
Polo- Good
rabbit8- Good
Ricochet- Good
S~V~S- Bad
sig- Good
SokothQultuq- Bad
Spacedaisy- ?

I will try to elaborate on a few of these once I get home from the office. I still have more work to do.

This is post #3.

#7720

#4

~~~

Ricochet wrote:Oh what the heck, I can waste another post, before filling ones with reads.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Ricochet wrote:For what it's worth, I'm not in lynch-Epig-because-Glorfindel camp, I say we determine Epig's status, because the lynch mechanics have not allowed for us to do so the first time (ironically, Epig happens to be the only lynched player whose alignment remains unknown, simply because he remained alive in the game) and because lore is out the window.

As for 2, underlined part, go ahead and do that with Epignosis. Here I think the Glorfindel factor actually brings a bit of weight. He capped the Glorfindel disasterhunt with his logic game. He shot down each one of Glorfindel's genuine attempts. He also mislynched Nerolunar and slept through nutella's lynch. The rest, at least as far as I can remember without researching back, is not conclusive.
Yellow: This seems to be directly at odds with what you said before (also in yellow below). Immediately emerging into this day phase, you promoted a lynch of Epignosis based upon the dynamic of how his alignment functions relative to Glorfindel's alignment. That's the rationale you provided. You even called it a "dichotomy", suggesting there's still any reason at all to establish a dichotomy between the two.
Oopsie, I seem to have completely derped here. I was focused on lynch-Athena-because-Boomerflip, but yeah, same thing. Don't know what my mind was buffering back then, tbh.

I also ended up pointing at Epig's hunt for Glorfindel, too. I'll wait to do a full-read conclusion, but yeah, rescinding that yellow comment.

Which yellow comment are you rescinding? The one in which you call for an Epignosis lynch based upon the Athena/Boomer dynamic, or the one in which you deny calling for an Epignosis lynch based upon the Athena/Boomer dynamic. This is a significant issue for me, I can't just let it go on an "oopsie". You promoted the lynch of a player who probably serves as an easier-than-usual target based upon a dubious premise, and a premise that you have separately rejected. There is no way to associate the two #8 cylons at all unless lore is on the mind.

You're right that Epignosis can be validly questioned on other points, but that's not what you did when this day opened and I think that's suspicious. You had to have your logic criticized before you went another direction to sustain your stated desire to lynch him.

Ricochet wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Orange: Why is it critical to resolve Epi's alignment right now? Why is it any more important to resolve his alignment than the alignment of any other player who's alignment remains unknown?
Why wait? As I've said, we've given Epignosis carte blanche for pure lore for eight cycles after he was lynched. I'm not comfortable with leaving the alignment status unanswered, after the Boomer reveal. Are you?

I'd prefer anyone's alignment be revealed instead of not revealed. I don't think the alignment of Epignosis is more important information than the alignment of [anyone else]. I don't think the Boomer reveal is relevant anymore to Epi's alignment. Why do I keep hearing people talking about "Boomer" alongside him? If lore is dead, and I think it should be, then this dichotomy and its perpetuation is suspicious at face value. It's a poor justification for a lynch, especially in a game that might not be well-situated for the town faction right now, based on...

Ricochet wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:6. We've only lynched one known baddie the whole game. LoRab's role is unknown. Town is not sitting pretty and the perspective that it is needs to end. Red alert, all hands to battlestations, etc.
LoRab is D'Anna Biers, independent.

Agreed with the rest.

END OF POST 2
That's a character and an alignment, not a role. Do you know what LoRab's role was?
I use the word role to define character, not abilities. I use the word ability or (rare) power role to define "role".

Now that confusion is out of the way, why is LoRab's abilities being unknown a notable factor? Simply because she was independent?

I suggested town is not sitting pretty based upon the premise that only one known baddie has been lynched. LoRab is not a known baddie. She is a known independent. Without knowing more about the mechanics of her role, we have no reason to assume her lynch was a productive one for the town cause.

~~~

juliets wrote:which if true would mean there was only one baddie among the Final five if I'm reading it right. Some of you who watched the show can tell me if what I found in the wiki is right. I'm guessing though that Golden didn't go straight with the lore and made 2 of them bad. I am not one of them.

This is a very specific guess. What inspires it?

~~~

Matt wrote:I literally did this in two seconds, just woke up and I gotta go to work but here are some G2H reads. I dunno, I flip flop on OA and Rico constantly. I used to think SVS was a certain role and still would like to believe it, but Polo is hammering at SVS so hrm. Being forced to provide a read on Epi, I'd have to say at this point I think he's mafia. At the very least, the Cylons aren't as clear cut as we thought. I don't care if Boomer was "civ aligned" in the first season of BSG, she was most definitely not a "civvie" in the show, so for her to be town aligned means everything is up in the air now.

I would agree that everything is up in the air. So why do you suspect Epignosis? What is the rationale for that suspicion? It can't have anything to do with Boomer, because "everything is up in the air", so give me a reason relevant to content in this game thread.

~~~

rabbit8 wrote:8....

Dex, if you think lore has any thing to do with Epi allegiance, how can Boomer be considered town? Because she saved Hera with her final act? Which she claims does not absolve her of all her sins? Actually as I write this I think maybe they could both be civvie aligned....

I'm about to go into all of your homes and set fire to your Battlestar Galactica DVDs.

~~~

Nerolunar wrote:
Dex wrote:#4

In which case, I'm back to defending Epi, based on lore. Athena was never mafia.
I think Dex is aligned with Cavil and Athena/Epi. Given the events with Glorfindel/Boomer and us labeling Boomer as evil due to the lore barely leaves option for Epi to be civ. I just can't see him be, the two Sharons are dual and cannot be civ together. Using lore as an argument yet again seems bold but still something I could see mafia doing.

3#

YOU JUST USED LORE. *head explodes*

There is no reason to give a crap about Boomer when discussing Epignosis apart from his treatment of Glorfindel in the game thread. To say that "I just can't see him be, the two Sharons are dual and cannot be civ together" is literally about the lore of the show. It has nothing to do with this Mafia game. You've promoted a lore argument in the same breath as casting doubt on Dex for promoting a lore argument.

~~~

juliets wrote:Drumbeats my suspicion of Epi had nothing to do with Glorfindel because I didn't know that at the time to my recollection. He wasn't NK'd, his votes didn't look good to me, and i started thinking maybe Golden had randomized.

Your tone was confident in that dead-message. What votes of his bothered you so much, and why have you since changed your mind? You've called him a civilian read gun to head.

~~~

Nerolunar wrote:Forgot to mark my last post. This is #5.

I am going to prepare a big exam tomorrow so voting now.

Epignosis

Not sure I will be able to check in for some time so state your questions and I will adress them upon my next read through.

~~~

I haven't liked anything Nero has said since his resurrection.

#7721

To Ricochet:

Ricochet wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Whose alignment are you comfortable not knowing?
Uh, yours.

You say Athena and Boomer can still be treated independently. I can accept this. By this, Boomer, independently, turned out town, which makes lore completely unreliable. Should lore still be completely reliable in your case, then? I don't see why. Hence if lore has become completely unreliable in your case, as well, what should I make of you, Athena, independently, and how?

If the answer to "how" is to look at the gameplay, I believe I have, satisfactorily.

I am not appealing to lore, and you know I'm not. Why ask what you did? I said Glorfindel being good doesn't mean I'm bad. That's basic either-or fallacy if you believe it must be true. But your opinion originally was that I had to be bad if Glorfindel was good. 3J even called you out on it.

If you think I should be lynched on the basis of what I have done with the information I have had before last night, then vote for me. Don't dance around being uncomfortable with my role reveal but lack of alignment reveal. That's bullshit. Everybody else has an unknown alignment, just the same as me. You're claiming that you HAVE TO KNOW my alignment in order to be comfortable. That's bullshit too. You don't know anybody else's alignment, do you?

The reason your dance about lore is bullshit is this: If Glorfindel's alignment had never been revealed, you would have never come after me. You didn't gun for me until after then, so any claim about my "gameplay" or whatever you want to call it is fabricated, after-the-fact bullshit.

Bring it homeboy.

Ricochet wrote:
Epignosis wrote:I think Nerolunar came back bad. He said "2/2," but he plopped a vote onto me.

Think about this.

If two of the returning people are good and two of the returning people are bad, then Nerolunar should recognize that, if he himself is one of them good ones, he has a two in three chance of nailing someone bad by voting for one of the returning people.

He does not consider this. If Nerolunar genuinely believes what he was saying, and Nerolunar is one of the two good ones, he should be trying to work out which two of the three are bad. Instead, he voted for me and took a powder.
I could be inclined to agree with this, because I also picked on Nerolunar's comment being either major derp or strangely suspicious. A couple of issues, however:

1) What you say should then be consistently requested from all Final Five. I believe all of them have expressed views on how many F5's could turn mafia and it so happens that Nerolunar is now not the only one that's, technically, in the same pickle.

Spacedaisy wrote:I would guess 2-3 based entirely on my guess about how he would have to keep the game balanced. Even that is difficult to say for sure given how ambiguous everything has been. I would be surprised if it were more than three or only one. So, yeah 2-3 probably.
So that's 2-3 out of 5, meaning that, according to your logic, if Spacedaisy is one of the good ones, she should have the incentive to work out which of the others. At worst, it could mean she's the only good one among the resurrected F5s. At best, it means 1 resurrected and 1 dormant.

Juliets went softer:

Juliets wrote:Someone asked the four who came back from the dead to make a guess as to how many of the five are good versus bad. Based strictly on my perception of how many baddies we would have versus how many good I would GUESS we have two baddies and three civ's. What I found in the lore indicates:

<loresnip>

which if true would mean there was only one baddie among the Final five if I'm reading it right. Some of you who watched the show can tell me if what I found in the wiki is right. I'm guessing though that Golden didn't go straight with the lore and made 2 of them bad. I am not one of them.
So she's not bad, meaning there's either two baddies to hunt for out of the other three resurrected ones or just one resurrected baddie (and the other is the dormant fifth).

Incidentally, Dex went for the safest possible answer to this question:

Dex wrote:I'm guessing that not all Final Five are civ, but as they re-appeared just today we really have had no time to get any reads on them. Knowing my own situation, however, I'm willing to start by giving them the benefit of the doubt.
So, while I realize Nerolunar was the most precise in his projection ("2/2"), the number of two baddie F5s or even three(!) has been brought up by two other players. So, under consistency principles, you'd basically have to ask each F5 member except Dex to focus on figuring out the baddies within their special ranks, instead of "plopping" votes onto others.

There is no consistency issue: Nerolunar is the only one of the Final Five to have voted.

Ricochet wrote:You're basically suggesting the Final Five should just pick each other apart.

Damn right I am. If they are all saying some of them are bad, then they all should be in the hot seat. They SHOULD BE picking each other apart.

Ricochet wrote:2) Even so, how do you suggest any of them do try "to work out which" of the others "are bad"? According to the implications, their first incarnation's alignment is not relevant to how they might have resurrected. Which would mean that they just started this game anew. So how could they discern?

How? The same way anybody else has to figure out if anybody else is bad.

Ricochet wrote:Your suggestion was for Nerolunar (but let's expand to all of them) to take the "chance of nailing someone bad by voting for one of the returning people." That's... just playing the chance card.

When your chances are better than 50/50, that's when you roll the dice, eh?

Ricochet wrote:How would you try to discern right now between the F5s? How can we, the non-F5 players? What material is there right now to do that?

They've posted. They've posted opinions. How do their opinions differ from before? Does their tone seem different? Do they appear nervous or uncertain with how to proceed? Mafia 101. Please.

Ricochet wrote:
Epignosis wrote:I don't miss votes on purpose. Ever. Not for strategy or to hide. I don't lie about real life either. If you don't believe either of those things are true, that's fine. I'm not going to argue with you about it.
I can gladly rescind this argument, because it came off, without my intention, as putting too much emphasis on it, from the statistical evidence that you missed votes (for stated reason of falling asleep, at least on Day Two) to the conclusion excerpt implication that you would "sleep it off". Even I missed two votes due to sleep problems, so it wouldn't befit to make a compelling argument out of this issue.

You did not address the part of having no say in nutella's lynch. I remember you even listing player nutella never mentioned. But turn that around and you're not in a good position, either.

I don't understand what you are saying here.

As for nutella, I can't recall ever voting for her in my life.

Ricochet wrote:
Epignosis wrote:However, you are painting me with two different brushes. I didn't pile on bad lynches...but I spearheaded two of them.
I'll finetune this, then. You spearheaded two mislynches and wavered on others. On and off, on and off on LC. And that part where you went from "lynch LoRab no question" to "my vote is Sig" on Day Four, I've called you out on it before.

I didn't waver on the LC lynch. I wanted him gone, but I was willing to wait on him. That isn't wavering.

What you called me out on was adapting to the dynamics of the thread. It seems you would only be satisfied if I were 100% committed to my opinions at all times. Is that what you expect of me?

Ricochet wrote:
Epignosis wrote: I do not get the impression that you are being genuine in your treatment of my vote history.
That's alright, you considered me to be "bullshitting" with my efforts this entire game, so what's new?

Oh, I still think you're bullshitting, and if I go, I hope you're next.

Ricochet wrote:Am I slightly paranoid in regards to your status, following the unexpected twist in Boomer's alignment? I might well be, a bit, yes. I'd comment on who you could thank that for, but it's a matter of post-game, rather.

So why bring it up?

Ricochet wrote:Have I nonetheless headed back to judging your game throughout eight cycles and found it lacking? I believe I have.

Yeah, but your judgment sucks.

Ricochet wrote:
Epignosis wrote:A word about the Glorfindel lynch, for those who have retained their thinking caps.

I narrowed Glorfindel's role down to three machines. Cavil was one of those three. Boomer (the correct role) was another.

How many of you in my shoes (go ahead and assume I'm good for this exercise) would have refrained from lynching Glorfindel?

Say what you want with the benefit of hindsight, but I was damn proud of my little find.
And which part of this wouldn't possibly fall under the "coup de grace" of sealing Glorfindel's faith? Plus, you aptly point out that Cavil could have easily been the correct end result of your logical deduction, but if you are Cavil-aligned, you'd know that there's no chance of Glorfindel flipping Cavil.

I sealed his fate? On my own? As far as I could tell, I had to post my idea twice and hardly anybody paid attention to it.

++++

To this guy:

insertnamehere wrote:So say we all!

I'd like to go on the record as saying I'm not a big fan of GTH reads which have become a thing during my hiatus from the site. Most of the reads on mine will be civ, because I only suspect a handful of people, so I'm not sure how useful these are gonna be.

Black Rock – Good
Dex – Good
Drumbeats – Good
DrWilgy - Bad
Epignosis – Bad
G-Man – Good
Sokoth – Bad
JaggedJimmyJay – Good
Juliets – Good
Matt – Good
Nerolunar – Good
ObscureAllure – Good
Polo – Good
Rabbit8 – Good
Richochet – Good
S~V~S – Bad
Sig – Good
SpaceDaisy – Good

Yesterday, I found SVS a little suspicious, but I was willing to trust her and bea. Look how that turned out. So she's someone I'm definitely looking at.
With all the cylons, I think we should adopt a guilty until proven innocent attitude. Just statistically, they are way more likely to be bad, as I'd guess only a small number are good. So the fact that he's a cylon plus Rico's solid case on him makes me want to vote for Epignosis today. I'm also not trusting indiglo's passionate support of Wilgy, but he's not at the top of my shitlist for today. I still find Sokoth suspicious for pretty much the same reasons I said yesterday, but it's a weak read compared to SVS and Epi.

Statistically? What? So you're operating under the assumption that a certain number of Cylon's have to be bad? Why?

indiglo's passionate support of Wilgy?

++++

I wish all these cowards who say I'm bad would just vote for me. Get on with it. sig's 80% sure? No he isn't. I could fart and Ricochet would say it sounded like "God bless Lord Cavil." If you want me gone, vote.

++++

This numba five.

#7722

#5

~~~

This is the worst I have to say about Epignosis in this game:

I don't really care about the missed vote on Day 2. I believe him when he says that's never a strategic decision. He didn't say much about nutella as her wagon developed though, and at this point in the game he was pushing for my own lynch instead (relevant given that I was nutella's loudest opponent in the thread). After her lynch, he spent a few more cycles pushing my lynch without discussing my role in the nutella lynch despite my repeated insistence that it should be acknowledged.

So you can talk about that, Epi, if you've any posts to spare in your limit today.

#7723

Ricochet wrote:

Now that she's back, I'd ask @BR if she still harbours great disdain for the Cylon race as a whole or has anything changed for her in dynamic?

Now that I am seeing alignments come up I am seeing that Golden isn't sticking with evil Cylons are evil. It does change some.

Post #2

#7724

#6

~~~

Black Rock - bad
Dex - good
DrumBeats - good
DrWilgy - bad
Epignosis - good
G-Man - good
insertnamehere - good
juliets - good
Matt - good
Nerolunar - bad
ObscureAllure - bad
Polo - good
rabbit8 - bad
Ricochet - bad
S~V~S - good
sig - good
SokothQultug - good
Spacedaisy - good

Expanding on the bads:

Black Rock -- earlier in the game I was very suspicious of Black Rock, and only left that behind because it appeared Glorfindel was bad and they'd make illogical team mates. That's no longer in her favor, and without any content of note over the last few cycles the prior suspicion is sustained. That's no slight on her personally, I believe her when she talks about her RL constraints.

DrWilgy -- I thought he was capitalizing on the anti-JJJ sentiment of the thread at one point, and I doubt "he defended Glorfindel" was a sincere reason for him to suspect me in the first place. Too easy.

Nerolunar -- Assuming one of the Final Five has been converted into a pro-Cavil stance, Nero looks the worst of the four resurrectees to me. His treatment of Epignosis appears opportunistic and it also defies logic. Then there's the thing where he said all of the Final Five are Cavil-aligned, which includes him. I'm not one to talk about "slips", but that one's hard to ignore.

ObscureAllure -- Fallen from grace. I thought she looked very good earlier in the game and my confidence in that has progressively waned. Her behavior in recent cycles is suspicious to me at face value. I don't think she is paying fair attention to her accusers and has been overly dismissive.

rabbit8 -- I haven't really been inspired to change my tune on this one yet.

Ricochet -- Fallen from grace. I hate the way he has handled Epignosis today. Combine this with his dubious excuse for failing to claim cylon and I think a case exists.

#7725

Ok, I got the go ahead on this from Golden too, so it should come as no surprise (considering two others have already answered the exact same way, lol) when I say that yes when I began the game I knew my alignment in so far as I knew my win con.

Post #3

#7726

#7

~~~

Revisiting my case against Black Rock.

The worst of it summarized here.

How do people feel about this right now?

#7727

LBlack Rock – Good
Dex – Cylon/Bad
Drumbeats – Good
DrWilgy - Cylon/Bad
Epignosis – Cylon/Good
G-Man – Cylon/Dunno?
InsertNameHere – Good
JaggedJimmyJay – Good
Juliets – Cylon/Good
Matt – Good
Nerolunar – Cylon/Good
ObscureAllure – Best
Polo – F5 bad if SVS is bad
Rabbit8 – Good
Richochet – Cylon/Bad
S~V~S – Cylon/Bad if Polo is F5 bad
Sig – Good
Soko - Good
SpaceDaisy – Good

Post one

#7728

vote SVS

#7729

ObscureAllure wrote:vote SVS

Crap hit wrong button on phone. that was post two.

Post three

#7730

#4

It looks liek if I have to wind up voting to save, it will be for Epi, but I don't think Epi is bad. I hope people stop voting for him.

I am here,I am reading.

Linki @ JJJ, I think Black Rock is civ based on her early reaction to MY reaction to Epis lynch & reveal as Athena. I think is BR was bad,she would not have bothered to remark on my reaction to that flip.

#7731

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:#4

~~~

juliets wrote:which if true would mean there was only one baddie among the Final five if I'm reading it right. Some of you who watched the show can tell me if what I found in the wiki is right. I'm guessing though that Golden didn't go straight with the lore and made 2 of them bad. I am not one of them.
This is a very specific guess. What inspires it?

Here is the part of the post right above where you quoted
Someone asked the four who came back from the dead to make a guess as to how many of the five are good versus bad. Based strictly on my perception of how many baddies we would have versus how many good I would GUESS we have two baddies and three civ's.
The 3 - 2 split was a guess on my part based on how many I think Golden would have made civ vs. mafia. I just don't believe he would have given more to the mafia. I also talk about the lore a little in this post since it suggests a 4-1 ratio of civs to mafia. I asked for some feedback from others on that bit of lore.
~~~

juliets wrote:Drumbeats my suspicion of Epi had nothing to do with Glorfindel because I didn't know that at the time to my recollection. He wasn't NK'd, his votes didn't look good to me, and i started thinking maybe Golden had randomized.

Your tone was confident in that dead-message. What votes of his bothered you so much, and why have you since changed your mind? You've called him a civilian read gun to head.

The votes that bothered me were the first two right off the bat where he didn't vote (unless I missed his name in that first poll but I double checked) and then his vote on day 6 where he voted Drum when the day before he voted Glorfindel and the day after he voted Glorfindel. That just made no sense to me. Be aware this was not the only thing that made me feel confident about him. What changed my mind was first looking at what his responses were to later accusations and my strong gut feel that he really isn't bad. The votes didn't look so bad to me anymore and Epi had addressed the other points and his overall behavior when I looked at it again tells me he's civ. I just changed my mind back to where it was before I thought I had found some good evidence. I am sorry if i caused confusion in the thread.

Post # 7

#7732

RICO I HAS GIRL PARTS.

Post four

#7733

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:#5

~~~

This is the worst I have to say about Epignosis in this game:

I don't really care about the missed vote on Day 2. I believe him when he says that's never a strategic decision. He didn't say much about nutella as her wagon developed though, and at this point in the game he was pushing for my own lynch instead (relevant given that I was nutella's loudest opponent in the thread). After her lynch, he spent a few more cycles pushing my lynch without discussing my role in the nutella lynch despite my repeated insistence that it should be acknowledged.

So you can talk about that, Epi, if you've any posts to spare in your limit today.

My suspicion of you was based on angles of thought that I would not expect a logical person to take. You won a pretzel, man!

I don't really care that you took a stance against nutella and got her lynched. People bus people all the time around here. That by itself never plays into my thinking if someone is good or bad or not.

S~V~S wrote:#4

It looks liek if I have to wind up voting to save, it will be for Epi, but I don't think Epi is bad. I hope people stop voting for him.

I am here,I am reading.

Linki @ JJJ, I think Black Rock is civ based on her early reaction to MY reaction to Epis lynch & reveal as Athena. I think is BR was bad,she would not have bothered to remark on my reaction to that flip.

I'm sure to get one or two more, maybe three.

I despise these situations, because it makes two people vote each other and just hope.

Why won't you vote Ricochet? Whom do you want to vote?

That's six. I'm running out.

#7734

Post #3:

To lynch S~V~S tonight you need. I promise you will regret the results not. Yes, hmmm.

G-Man wrote:Admiral wants us to post reads and cut to the chase. For that reason, I'm going to eliminate neutral/unsure reads for all except the four rezzed player. These GTH-esque classifications are based on votes and notes.

Black Rock- Bad
Dex- ?
DrumBeats- Bad
DrWilgy- Good
Epignosis- Good
insertnamehere- Good
JaggedJimmyJay- Good
juliets- ?
Matt- Good
Nerolunar- ?
ObscureAllure- Good
Polo- Good
rabbit8- Good
Ricochet- Good
S~V~S- Bad
sig- Good
SokothQultuq- Bad
Spacedaisy- ?

I will try to elaborate on a few of these once I get home from the office. I still have more work to do.

This is post #3.

You think S~V~S may be mafia you say. You vote her tonight too would, hmm?

ObscureAllure wrote:LBlack Rock – Good
Dex – Cylon/Bad
Drumbeats – Good
DrWilgy - Cylon/Bad
Epignosis – Cylon/Good
G-Man – Cylon/Dunno?
InsertNameHere – Good
JaggedJimmyJay – Good
Juliets – Cylon/Good
Matt – Good
Nerolunar – Cylon/Good
ObscureAllure – Best
Polo – F5 bad if SVS is bad
Rabbit8 – Good
Richochet – Cylon/Bad
S~V~S – Cylon/Bad if Polo is F5 bad
Sig – Good
Soko - Good
SpaceDaisy – Good

Post one

Wait. If been saying I S~V~S is as bad as have, then bad too I am, hmm?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Polo wrote:Oh, I am so anxious for your lynch or, on worst case scenario, for endgame. I will be proven right.
If you could choose just one word to describe the origin of your suspicion for S~V~S, what would it be? I don't mean your confidence level, I mean her specific offense -- summarize it in a single word.

If you can't, give me a brief phrase. This might sound pointless, but I have my reasons for asking.

Hiding in plain sight and is trying as hard as possible to appear civ, is she, and treating baddies with caution giving civ reads on people as civ universally read. Yeesssssss.

DrumBeats wrote: @ Linki Polo A lot of Civ reads in there. Do you believe that the mafia is composed of two people + some F5 now, or do you believe there to be more? Don't respond immediately, wait for some more things so you don't waste your posts, you've already lost two. I would like an actual case on SVS too please.

Made out of at least two original cylons and at least one ressurrected FF, I think mafia is. Yeesssssss.

#7735

Post 4 I dislike Nero's play right now to but, I don't want to lynch him and know I'm wary of an Epi lynch. As I've said I'd also be fine with a Wilgy lynch. However, I still think Epi is mafia I'm just slightly less sure.

@JJJ I agree with you on everyone but Epi and BlackRock. I'm not currently suspicious of her. I will reread the rico vs Epi thing as well and see if I see what you see.

#7736

#5 yes polo, we get it, you think I am bad. Good luck with that you are wrong.

#7737

7....

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:#7

~~~

Revisiting my case against Black Rock.

The worst of it summarized here.

How do people feel about this right now?

I like it. How does that make you feel?

#7738

Post #4

S~V~S wrote:#5 yes polo, we get it, you think I am bad. Good luck with that you are wrong.

Pretty good at hiding, you were, John Cavil.

Soon see how evil you are, everyone will.

#7739

6....

Polo wrote:Post #4

S~V~S wrote:#5 yes polo, we get it, you think I am bad. Good luck with that you are wrong.
Pretty good at hiding, you were, John Cavil.

Soon see how evil you are, everyone will.

Got to admit I like your gusto. I might agree.

How does that make JJJ feel? JJJ?

#7740

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Which yellow comment are you rescinding? The one in which you call for an Epignosis lynch based upon the Athena/Boomer dynamic, or the one in which you deny calling for an Epignosis lynch based upon the Athena/Boomer dynamic. This is a significant issue for me, I can't just let it go on an "oopsie". You promoted the lynch of a player who probably serves as an easier-than-usual target based upon a dubious premise, and a premise that you have separately rejected. There is no way to associate the two #8 cylons at all unless lore is on the mind.

You're right that Epignosis can be validly questioned on other points, but that's not what you did when this day opened and I think that's suspicious. You had to have your logic criticized before you went another direction to sustain your stated desire to lynch him.

The comment which you singled out in yellow.

I'm not going to explain my brain derp any longer, it's 4am.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'd prefer anyone's alignment be revealed instead of not revealed. I don't think the alignment of Epignosis is more important information than the alignment of [anyone else]. I don't think the Boomer reveal is relevant anymore to Epi's alignment. Why do I keep hearing people talking about "Boomer" alongside him? If lore is dead, and I think it should be, then this dichotomy and its perpetuation is suspicious at face value. It's a poor justification for a lynch, especially in a game that might not be well-situated for the town faction right now, based on...

Ok.

Epignosis wrote:I am not appealing to lore, and you know I'm not. Why ask what you did? I said Glorfindel being good doesn't mean I'm bad. That's basic either-or fallacy if you believe it must be true. But your opinion originally was that I had to be bad if Glorfindel was good. 3J even called you out on it.

If you think I should be lynched on the basis of what I have done with the information I have had before last night, then vote for me. Don't dance around being uncomfortable with my role reveal but lack of alignment reveal. That's bullshit. Everybody else has an unknown alignment, just the same as me. You're claiming that you HAVE TO KNOW my alignment in order to be comfortable. That's bullshit too. You don't know anybody else's alignment, do you?

The reason your dance about lore is bullshit is this: If Glorfindel's alignment had never been revealed, you would have never come after me. You didn't gun for me until after then, so any claim about my "gameplay" or whatever you want to call it is fabricated, after-the-fact bullshit.

Bring it homeboy.

Ok.

Epignosis wrote:Damn right I am. If they are all saying some of them are bad, then they all should be in the hot seat. They SHOULD BE picking each other apart.

Ok.

Epignosis wrote:They've posted. They've posted opinions. How do their opinions differ from before? Does their tone seem different? Do they appear nervous or uncertain with how to proceed? Mafia 101. Please.

Ok. I failed, I'll let you do it.

Epignosis wrote:
Ricochet wrote:I remember you even listing player nutella never mentioned. But turn that around and you're not in a good position, either.
I don't understand what you are saying here.

As for nutella, I can't recall ever voting for her in my life.[/quote]

How about having saying ANYTHING relevant about her as a suspect, on the Day she got lynched, which is my entire fraking thesis around the nutella-you Day Two interaction. No?

Ok.

Epignosis wrote:Oh, I still think you're bullshitting, and if I go, I hope you're next.

Why wait? See end of this post. Let's go.

Epignosis wrote:Yeah, but your judgment sucks.

Ok.

Epignosis wrote:I wish all these cowards who say I'm bad would just vote for me. Get on with it. sig's 80% sure? No he isn't. I could fart and Ricochet would say it sounded like "God bless Lord Cavil." If you want me gone, vote.

No. I'm done. You vote me.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Ricochet -- Fallen from grace. I hate the way he has handled Epignosis today. Combine this with his dubious excuse for failing to claim cylon and I think a case exists.

Oh wow, six cycles into this fraking bullsuit suspicion around me taking a stance on claiming and suddenly you jump on me for that as well.

Ok.

ObscureAllure wrote:RICO I HAS GIRL PARTS.

Post four

Sorry I mix up female genders all the time.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:This is the worst I have to say about Epignosis in this game:

I don't really care about the missed vote on Day 2. I believe him when he says that's never a strategic decision. He didn't say much about nutella as her wagon developed though, and at this point in the game he was pushing for my own lynch instead (relevant given that I was nutella's loudest opponent in the thread). After her lynch, he spent a few more cycles pushing my lynch without discussing my role in the nutella lynch despite my repeated insistence that it should be acknowledged.

So you can talk about that, Epi, if you've any posts to spare in your limit today.

This is thinner than the slices of cheddar in my sandwiches every morning. I remember asking you to tell me how Epignosis reads based on his game, based on no lore whatsoever, the type of ISO/analysis that you normally embrace and are so capable of, and you write four lines based on one Day out of eight and one point of suspicion (nutella), zero mentions of how his Glorfindel hunt reads.

Ok, then.

Ok, done.

You know what. I almost dosed off with a tab opened on a half-written ISO of INH, which is about as far as I reached the reads, but I'm glad I woke back to the realisation that maybe I should do something better than this and maybe you all deserve something better too than this fudge of a game I've been performing this entire month.

Here's something I suddenly noticed happening today.

Dex wrote: Epignosis: Civ, but can no longer defend him as I was before the Boomer flip
Ricochet: mafia

rabbit8 wrote: I still think Rico is bad, sig too.

Sokoth wrote:Epignosis – Cylon/Good
Richochet – Cylon/Bad

juliets wrote:Epignosis: Civ
Ricochet: go back and forth on but leaning civ today

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Epignosis - good
Ricochet - bad

ObscureAllure wrote:Epignosis – Cylon/Good
Richochet – Cylon/Bad

Apart from Sokoth EDIT: Obscure too just now, these players have yet to vote. So you can easily vote me to save Epignosis, right now. Actually, all five votes are not even required. Lean bad juliets, please. Everyone else, vote me, as well. I'm not even going to touch the lynch. Save Epignosis.

When I meant that this is too much to handle, I genuinely meant it and so, it's probably time to lay down arms and sign off. Important lore up its belly after nine cycles relying on it. 10 posts or less to generate content for the President. 19 reads to generate for the Admiral. ??? for ???? to ???? for ???? Maybe too much is too much and I'm simply broken.

I am a nylon.

Consider me to have imploded. Lynch me to remove me.

END OF POST #9 #9 #9 #9 #9 #9 AND HOPEFULLY OF GAME

Good night and good luck.

#7741

Ricochet

END OF POST #10

#7742

5....

Do you generally get this worked up over mafia, Rico?

I have nothing relevant to add at the moment.

If I did not specifically call a player bad in one of my 10 posts I think they might be good. Everyone's covered.

#7743

Post #5:

Fear is the path to the colon side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.

#7744

Man I hope polo keeps calling mafia 'colons' in all future games of mafia:

#7745

#8

~~~

I have to go, actually. I've been challenged to ping pong and I do not back down from ping pong.

I'm into a Black Rock lynch. I think Rico just exploded. Uh.

Madame President: eliminate this law, it is completely terrible. Come on.

#7746

Golden wrote:Man I hope polo keeps calling mafia 'colons' in all future games of mafia:

Colony, a cylon settlement is. Herh herh herh.

#7747

Ricochet wrote:Consider me to have imploded.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I think Rico just exploded.

#7748

Polo wrote:
G-Man wrote:Admiral wants us to post reads and cut to the chase. For that reason, I'm going to eliminate neutral/unsure reads for all except the four rezzed player. These GTH-esque classifications are based on votes and notes.

Black Rock- Bad
Dex- ?
DrumBeats- Bad
DrWilgy- Good
Epignosis- Good
insertnamehere- Good
JaggedJimmyJay- Good
juliets- ?
Matt- Good
Nerolunar- ?
ObscureAllure- Good
Polo- Good
rabbit8- Good
Ricochet- Good
S~V~S- Bad
sig- Good
SokothQultuq- Bad
Spacedaisy- ?

I will try to elaborate on a few of these once I get home from the office. I still have more work to do.

This is post #3.
You think S~V~S may be mafia you say. You vote her tonight too would, hmm?

Actually, I'm still more suspicious of DrumBeats and Sokoth still. I found what feels to me like an unnatural/forced progression on S~V~S's view on Glorfindel Day 6. I'll post it if the baby will let me leave her side. I hate using my phone for playing but baby girl flips out everytime I get up off the floor. Playtime is srsbsns it seems.

This is post # 4.

#7749

Forgot the vote needs its own line.

Black Rock

#7750

Post #7

I don't want to vote Epi or S~V~S. Epi because I guess I'm not just over lore yet. Boomer spent an entire season being good, but Athena was never evil. And S~V~S because she has been one of my stronger civ reads ever since she lead the charge on Cain. I just can't see a Cavil cylon doing that. If martial law benefits anyone other than Cain, it's the Cavil cylons.

Epignosis wrote:
Ricochet wrote:You're basically suggesting the Final Five should just pick each other apart.
Damn right I am. If they are all saying some of them are bad, then they all should be in the hot seat. They SHOULD BE picking each other apart.

But THIS makes sense to me. If the 4ofF5 did come down two and two, then even if I just draw a name out of a hat, I've got a 66.6% of getting an evil toaster. Juliettes has been reading best to me, Nero worse, and SpaceDaisy somewhere in between. Accordingly, I'm voting

Neroluner

Who be you lynching today?