[ENDGAME] Triskaidekaphobia Mafia

[Elohcin]

I've never lied once in my life!

I have hosted before and I'm completely aware of everything you just said. What I'm saying is that even if you disagreed or thought he was lying, it is simply interesting that you didn't acknowledge the post.

14

Okay. I'm glad you find me interesting

Asking another man to bare with you?

Mmm mmm mmm mmm mmm.

She's moved on.

Well, the other day we were talking about if either one of us were to pass. I told Epi I would live out my days alone with the kids. But he told me that i must find another man to take care of my needs. SO...maybe I am just getting a head start. Any takers? Who wants to be my back-up hubby?

Thank you for answering, it seemed genuine. I will move my vote to Vompatti for now. I am not usually one to move my vote around like this. But your response was pleasantly surprising.

Day 1 #8

Do you think JJJ is telling the truth about dog? What's your feeling on JJJ?
Is there anything particularly surprising about sig's response?

I don't know what I missed about "dog", but I have no clue what you're talking about. I mean, I have literally searched for the word "dog" and only see it in your post when you say JJJ peeked dog.

As for my feelings on JJJ. I am not paying too much attention to his claims. I don't think we can put too much weight on it yet. Players claim things all the time (whether it be about themselves or others) that may or may not be true. I'm not too concerned. It could go like this:
1. he is the cop. Yay, he can help us find mafia.
2. he is not the cop, but the real cop is too scared to come forth b/c he might get nightkilled so we keep on thinking he's the cop
3. he's not the cop, but the real cop calls him out on it (but who's to say that the player who calls him out on it is the real cop. maybe the player who calls him out is just concerned that JJJ IS the real cop and is afraid the mafia will kill him, so he claims to be cop as a distraction to the mafia)
4. Maybe there is no damn cop in this game so we all go on thinking JJJ must be the cop.
There is way too much speculation that can happen on this subject, so I say

sig's response was calm and collected. this makes me think he is civ.

@ sig - I am not sure who else I am considering. I think it will partly depend on scotty's response to this post

Lol "sig" always corrects on my phone to "dog" and these days I have a 40% chance to miss the autocorrect. And sometimes I just leave it because I like dogs.

I agree that those are the scenarios for JJJ, but which of 1-4 do you believe JJJ is doing?

As for sig...I keep going back to what he said in a past game: if he appears civ, he is probably bad, so lynch him. When he is obviously bad, he's probably good.

I don't know how that translates to this game, but I'm not pushing it since I'm still playing along with the scenario that JJJ is in fact the cop.

Well, as I've said, I'm not sure where I stand. I'm not sure why he would come out and profess to being the cop for the opportunity to get killed by the mafia. I don't get it.

Here we go Quin...I'm going to address JJJ. Will this make you happy?

@JJJ - If you truly are the cop, why would you come right out and tell everyone. Aren't you afraid the Mafia will choose to kill you Night 1? Do you have some kind of immunity from being killed Night 1? Or immunity for all night kills?

Day 1 #15

[G-Man]

Have you ever wondered why civilians seem to lose an awful lot? Or why nobody gets lynched Day 1?



Hi. I'm Troy McClure. You may remember me from such films as Adverbs are the Devil and What to Do When JaggedJimmyJay Thinks You're Scum.

I'm here today to talk to you about No Lynch options, and why they are a danger to society.

Every day, hardworking civilians, like yourselves, come to the poll to cast a vote so that the evil among you may be purged. You are doing God's work and making our town safer by your actions. Good for you!

Then one day, a neighbor shows you an alternative method: No Lynch Voting. He says that if you're unsure of yourself, you can safely vote there, and everything will be OK.

Haha...if only that were true!

The truth is, supporting a No Lynch means you are okay allowing the corrupt to strike first. It means being comfortable with the chance that your voice isn't heard before having your throat cut in the night and your lifeblood spill out all over your satin sheets. It means sacrificing a slim chance of raining death upon your enemy in exchange for absolutely no chance of raining death upon your enemy.

And where's the fun is that?

So the next time this well-meaning neighbor knocks on your door and asks you to consider a No Lynch, look him in the eye and tell him "Troy McClure wants you to know that I'm not a sucker, sucker."

And while you're hunting mafia, look out for me in an upcoming special, "The Simpsons Mafia, hosted by nijuukyugou and Epignosis."

Bravo, good sir! Bravo!

G-Man: I'm not sure what to do with his posts. One observation I make is that despite having a few longer and more thorough posts, he hasn't really planted his flag anywhere yet save for declaring two pings in his very first post (on INH and I). I would expect to see some manner of progression in his hunting efforts, even this early.

GTH mafia.

I'll plant my flag in time. Don't you worry about that. You'll see less of me than you're used to in this game and in future games. I'm trying to be more disciplined in balancing work/home/game so I don't fall behind at work or sneak around the house playing mafia games on my phone. Mafia is the area I have to cut back on out of the three because it is the least important of the three. This means my posts ratio will be skewed more toward shorter reactions and a scant few posts of substance to wrap up the day/night phase and whenever during those phases my lunch break happens to fall.

@JJJ - If you truly are the cop, why would you come right out and tell everyone. Aren't you afraid the Mafia will choose to kill you Night 1? Do you have some kind of immunity from being killed Night 1? Or immunity for all night kills?

Day 1 #15

Cop or not, Jimmy knows better than to answer your last two questions, so why ask them? *ping*



1.

[rabbit8]

GTH:
Vompatti and Eloh if JJJ is good. SVS is good. Rabbit bad if JJJ is bad. Sig is bad if Eloh is good. I suppose that would also mean that Rabbit JJJ and Sig could be on a team.

Gman is slightly bad... His scumdoodlin is not reliant on other players yo.

@Sig, how about 2 full grown roosters?

@Rabbit, who's on your team?

JJJ and Sig.

[rabbit8]

This is exciting. Maybe I'll finally get my no lynch result.

Some early observations that I found interesting:

- I'm seeing INH as much, much more aggressive in this game than I have before. He accuses 3J of shutting down any conversations where the other person has a different viewpoint, a point which is easily discredited just by looking at his posts. He also votes no lynch for unclear reasons.

- 3J was pretty quick to town read quite a few people. I get that 'it's never too early to form an opinion' but I think an hour into day 0 is surprisingly quick.

- SVS says things just for the sake of saying it. Feigning activity or just looking to contribute? Find out next time...

- Scotty says some stuff about relying on meta early on, which I agree with. He also twisted 3J's words about 'willing to be lynched' which ...I don't?

- rabbit waited until day 1 began to start pointing fingers, though he was here during day 0 for a very brief period.

- wilgy voted no lynch and i still dont think he's given a clear reason why.

- elohcin voted sig and ignored 3j's testimony that he was civ.

- vompatti votes no lynch for the lulz.


10

lol, OK. I was not here day 0. I was out of town on my phone, thus one smilie post. But go with what you got.

[sig]

post 6

I'm really confident JJJ isn't the cop, I'm slightly wary of him for hinting that he might be the cop, however I do think he is a civ even though he is trying to say he might be the cop.

I'll need to check him out some more before I decide for sure what I think about his alignment though, so expect me to say more on JJJ day 2 or 3.

[DrWilgy]

post 6

I'm really confident JJJ isn't the cop, I'm slightly wary of him for hinting that he might be the cop, however I do think he is a civ even though he is trying to say he might be the cop.

I'll need to check him out some more before I decide for sure what I think about his alignment though, so expect me to say more on JJJ day 2 or 3.

You ready for this meme?

I'm the cop and INH was my green peek.

[sig]

GTH:
Vompatti and Eloh if JJJ is good. SVS is good. Rabbit bad if JJJ is bad. Sig is bad if Eloh is good. I suppose that would also mean that Rabbit JJJ and Sig could be on a team.

Gman is slightly bad... His scumdoodlin is not reliant on other players yo.

@Sig, how about 2 full grown roosters?

@Rabbit, who's on your team?

I don't see how your getting this? Why would JJJ fake a peek on me and Rabbit defend me if we were all on the same team. That would be one of the strangest mafia gambit ever. Can you explain that logic?

Unless the roosters poop gold no.

7


linki: You're not the cop.

[sig]

Thank you for answering, it seemed genuine. I will move my vote to Vompatti for now. I am not usually one to move my vote around like this. But your response was pleasantly surprising.

Day 1 #8

Do you think JJJ is telling the truth about dog? What's your feeling on JJJ?
Is there anything particularly surprising about sig's response?

I don't know what I missed about "dog", but I have no clue what you're talking about. I mean, I have literally searched for the word "dog" and only see it in your post when you say JJJ peeked dog.

As for my feelings on JJJ. I am not paying too much attention to his claims. I don't think we can put too much weight on it yet. Players claim things all the time (whether it be about themselves or others) that may or may not be true. I'm not too concerned. It could go like this:
1. he is the cop. Yay, he can help us find mafia.
2. he is not the cop, but the real cop is too scared to come forth b/c he might get nightkilled so we keep on thinking he's the cop
3. he's not the cop, but the real cop calls him out on it (but who's to say that the player who calls him out on it is the real cop. maybe the player who calls him out is just concerned that JJJ IS the real cop and is afraid the mafia will kill him, so he claims to be cop as a distraction to the mafia)
4. Maybe there is no damn cop in this game so we all go on thinking JJJ must be the cop.
There is way too much speculation that can happen on this subject, so I say

sig's response was calm and collected. this makes me think he is civ.

@ sig - I am not sure who else I am considering. I think it will partly depend on scotty's response to this post

Lol "sig" always corrects on my phone to "dog" and these days I have a 40% chance to miss the autocorrect. And sometimes I just leave it because I like dogs.

I agree that those are the scenarios for JJJ, but which of 1-4 do you believe JJJ is doing?

As for sig...I keep going back to what he said in a past game: if he appears civ, he is probably bad, so lynch him. When he is obviously bad, he's probably good.

I don't know how that translates to this game, but I'm not pushing it since I'm still playing along with the scenario that JJJ is in fact the cop.

What a paradox if I'm playing a good civ game I must be bad. But, people are trying to lynch me I must be a civ.

8

[DrWilgy]

GTH:
Vompatti and Eloh if JJJ is good. SVS is good. Rabbit bad if JJJ is bad. Sig is bad if Eloh is good. I suppose that would also mean that Rabbit JJJ and Sig could be on a team.

Gman is slightly bad... His scumdoodlin is not reliant on other players yo.

@Sig, how about 2 full grown roosters?

@Rabbit, who's on your team?

I don't see how your getting this? Why would JJJ fake a peek on me and Rabbit defend me if we were all on the same team. That would be one of the strangest mafia gambit ever. Can you explain that logic?

Unless the roosters poop gold no.

7


linki: You're not the cop.

Yes, a yolo defend teammate strat works when it's established early. It being day 1 with no btsc (as you brought up earlier) I would think that a baddie team would be more benefited to helping each other. Bussing and distancing without btsc day 1 is a real bitch y'know yo?

It's also odd... That you didn't lean on the opposite side that I presented... I gave the option of 2 routes Sig. One where vompatti and eloh are bad and JJJ is good... Why did you immediately go to invalidating a scenario through a nonexistent logic, instead of diving into the full scenario?

Lastly Sig, am I not cop because INH is bad or because you think I'm bad?

[Elohcin]

post 6

I'm really confident JJJ isn't the cop, I'm slightly wary of him for hinting that he might be the cop, however I do think he is a civ even though he is trying to say he might be the cop.

I'll need to check him out some more before I decide for sure what I think about his alignment though, so expect me to say more on JJJ day 2 or 3.

You ready for this meme?

I'm the cop and INH was my green peek.

See...here we go. at least one of the cop claimers is a liar, possibly both. This is why I don't jump on the "oh, I believe you" train. Even SIG is saying he doesn't believe JJJ and he was supposedly JJJ's peek!

Day 1 #16

[Scotty]

Thank you for answering, it seemed genuine. I will move my vote to Vompatti for now. I am not usually one to move my vote around like this. But your response was pleasantly surprising.

Day 1 #8

Do you think JJJ is telling the truth about dog? What's your feeling on JJJ?
Is there anything particularly surprising about sig's response?

I don't know what I missed about "dog", but I have no clue what you're talking about. I mean, I have literally searched for the word "dog" and only see it in your post when you say JJJ peeked dog.

As for my feelings on JJJ. I am not paying too much attention to his claims. I don't think we can put too much weight on it yet. Players claim things all the time (whether it be about themselves or others) that may or may not be true. I'm not too concerned. It could go like this:
1. he is the cop. Yay, he can help us find mafia.
2. he is not the cop, but the real cop is too scared to come forth b/c he might get nightkilled so we keep on thinking he's the cop
3. he's not the cop, but the real cop calls him out on it (but who's to say that the player who calls him out on it is the real cop. maybe the player who calls him out is just concerned that JJJ IS the real cop and is afraid the mafia will kill him, so he claims to be cop as a distraction to the mafia)
4. Maybe there is no damn cop in this game so we all go on thinking JJJ must be the cop.
There is way too much speculation that can happen on this subject, so I say

sig's response was calm and collected. this makes me think he is civ.

@ sig - I am not sure who else I am considering. I think it will partly depend on scotty's response to this post

Lol "sig" always corrects on my phone to "dog" and these days I have a 40% chance to miss the autocorrect. And sometimes I just leave it because I like dogs.

I agree that those are the scenarios for JJJ, but which of 1-4 do you believe JJJ is doing?

As for sig...I keep going back to what he said in a past game: if he appears civ, he is probably bad, so lynch him. When he is obviously bad, he's probably good.

I don't know how that translates to this game, but I'm not pushing it since I'm still playing along with the scenario that JJJ is in fact the cop.

What a paradox if I'm playing a good civ game I must be bad. But, people are trying to lynch me I must be a civ.

8

Hey man, don't shoot the messenger. This cool cat named dog said it once.

post 6

I'm really confident JJJ isn't the cop, I'm slightly wary of him for hinting that he might be the cop, however I do think he is a civ even though he is trying to say he might be the cop.

I'll need to check him out some more before I decide for sure what I think about his alignment though, so expect me to say more on JJJ day 2 or 3.

You ready for this meme?

I'm the cop and INH was my green peek.

You know, when JJJ advised us to go check Arrested Development, I seem to remember you doing the same thing. You came out giving a green peek to Sloonei, and you yourself were bad that game. Is history repeating itself, ehr Doctor?

[Spacedaisy]

Thank you for answering, it seemed genuine. I will move my vote to Vompatti for now. I am not usually one to move my vote around like this. But your response was pleasantly surprising.

Day 1 #8

Do you think JJJ is telling the truth about dog? What's your feeling on JJJ?
Is there anything particularly surprising about sig's response?

I don't know what I missed about "dog", but I have no clue what you're talking about. I mean, I have literally searched for the word "dog" and only see it in your post when you say JJJ peeked dog.

As for my feelings on JJJ. I am not paying too much attention to his claims. I don't think we can put too much weight on it yet. Players claim things all the time (whether it be about themselves or others) that may or may not be true. I'm not too concerned. It could go like this:
1. he is the cop. Yay, he can help us find mafia.
2. he is not the cop, but the real cop is too scared to come forth b/c he might get nightkilled so we keep on thinking he's the cop
3. he's not the cop, but the real cop calls him out on it (but who's to say that the player who calls him out on it is the real cop. maybe the player who calls him out is just concerned that JJJ IS the real cop and is afraid the mafia will kill him, so he claims to be cop as a distraction to the mafia)
4. Maybe there is no damn cop in this game so we all go on thinking JJJ must be the cop.
There is way too much speculation that can happen on this subject, so I say

sig's response was calm and collected. this makes me think he is civ.

@ sig - I am not sure who else I am considering. I think it will partly depend on scotty's response to this post

I like this post and agree with the assessment of Jay's cop claim.

Svs, That's not how I meant that. I meant that I wasn't asking to try to solicit his opinion of myself, I was asking because I was curious about his opinion on others. I'm not stressed about me because I know my role, lol. If someone suspects me they are more than welcome to share it so I can address any suspicions of course.

I'm trying to decide whether I find this post suspicious. I believe what Daisy said at face value -- that it wasn't her intent to solicit a read on her from me. However, the language here is collected in such a way that it feels rehearsed.

I dunno, it sounds weak as I type it. Thoughts?

Jay, my language is not the most normal in general. I joke with Alex about my "granny-speak" and as I mentioned earlier, "hot" is not a term I generally use applied to how attractive a person is to me. As an example, one time in college another friend and I met up with a third friend. The first friend exclaimed "Ryan! You're wearing your hottie jeans!" as a joke. I heard this and looked at his jeans trying to figure out what made them "haughty." True story. My point here is that I don't know what about it made you feel the language is collected or rehearsed, but I assure you it wasn't. It's just the way I talk and think.

Svs, That's not how I meant that. I meant that I wasn't asking to try to solicit his opinion of myself, I was asking because I was curious about his opinion on others. I'm not stressed about me because I know my role, lol. If someone suspects me they are more than welcome to share it so I can address any suspicions of course.

I'm trying to decide whether I find this post suspicious. I believe what Daisy said at face value -- that it wasn't her intent to solicit a read on her from me. However, the language here is collected in such a way that it feels rehearsed.

I dunno, it sounds weak as I type it. Thoughts?

SD comes across to me as a collected sort of person, so at face value I think it's sincere.

linki: fair point, but what 3j said wasn't an opinion, it was a fact, assuming he's telling the truth anyway. i just think it's interesting that you didn't address at least that post.

12

It makes me happy to hear this since I was such an emotional disaster in BSG. It was bad at the beginning, and the direct result of some major family drama, but I hate being the person who loses it emotionally. I'm not good with emotions in general, lol. Anyway, thanks for that.

LOL Elo, I tell Alex, if I die first you should totally feel ok with falling in love with and marrying someone else. He is the one who is like, no I would never marry someone else! He's the sweet one, not me, lol. I'm too practical I guess.

I need to read some ISOs I think, because I'm not feeling enough of a pull any one direction at the moment. No one is striking me as overwhelmingly bad right now. Hopefully some ISOs will change that. And I'm off today so I can totally do it.

[Scotty]

I'm also quite underwhelmed with Polo's catch up post, even though Vomps is still doing nothing to make me feel better about moving my vote.

I wouldn't mind voting for either of these guys. Tomatoes/Potatoes. Switching to Polo for now.

Post 17

[DrWilgy]

@Scotty - Yes, but I won't be caught this time :P

[DrWilgy]

Hmm... I need 2 more posts to be out of spooky post count range.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Wilgy's n0 fake peek was a red peek in Arrested Development, which isn't typically possible.

[DrWilgy]

Guess I'll tldr my clearest day 1 thoughts. Svs is civ, inh is civ, Sig and JJJ are on the same team.

By JJJ bringing up arrested development, he knows how this cop gambit works. Because of this, I'm 90% sure they are on the same team. I'm about 70% sure that they are mafia based on Sig's reaction to my gth.

Maybe I'll change my vote to Sig. Maybe not.

Linki - aren't you thinking of tree mafia JJJ? It was a red on diiny. In arrested I greened Sloonei.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Oh yeah, that's right. Nevermind.

You have experience with peeks either way; I'm confident you understand the value of giving them as a townie too.

[DrWilgy]

Oh yeah, that's right. Nevermind.

You have experience with peeks either way; I'm confident you understand the value of giving them as a townie too.

I also understand the value of the peek game as a baddie. Learned it the hard way.

You wanna learn it too JJJ?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Oh yeah, that's right. Nevermind.

You have experience with peeks either way; I'm confident you understand the value of giving them as a townie too.

I also understand the value of the peek game as a baddie. Learned it the hard way.

You wanna learn it too JJJ?

Until today I was the only one to bother. If nobody wants to give me cover then I'll just get killed anyway.

[DrWilgy]

Oh yeah, that's right. Nevermind.

You have experience with peeks either way; I'm confident you understand the value of giving them as a townie too.

I also understand the value of the peek game as a baddie. Learned it the hard way.

You wanna learn it too JJJ?

Until today I was the only one to bother. If nobody wants to give me cover then I'll just get killed anyway.

If those sre your honest thoughts I'm screwed right after I lynch you.

If that is a lie, I suppose I can last afew more days after you die.

Hey JJJ, what are your thoughts on Sig's reaction to me?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Hey JJJ, what are your thoughts on Sig's reaction to me?

He's right that the sig/JJJ baddie team mate concept is based upon the most obvious and unnecessary Day 1 connection ever. That's definitely not how I operate. If I was bad and giving a "peek", it'd be on a real townie, not a team mate. Otherwise it's a wasted opportunity to pocket. WIFOM that if you please.

[sig]

Again Wilgy your logic makes no sense and seeing how that was the main scenario talking about me that is the one I mentioned. When I'm mafia it is almost impossible to connect me to my teammates I'd never do something so blatant. I'm curious as to why you're pushing this agenda Wilgy, I suspect you and SVS are mafia.

Also you're not the cop since I know both you and JJJ aren't cops. There is no world were either of you are cops, I do however know what JJJ is doing with saying I was his peek. Or a random villager got a random peek which does happen in some games. Either way JJJ isn't the cop.

Oh yeah, that's right. Nevermind.

You have experience with peeks either way; I'm confident you understand the value of giving them as a townie too.

I also understand the value of the peek game as a baddie. Learned it the hard way.

You wanna learn it too JJJ?

Until today I was the only one to bother. If nobody wants to give me cover then I'll just get killed anyway.

JJJ the fake cop thing is going a wee bit to far. :P


It is clear JJJ is providing cover for the real cop whoever he is, I'm not sure if Wilgy is doing the same or not.

I will most likely vote for Wilgy or SVS today.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think we need to agree on a lynch as a group so we can overcome this abysmal no lynch wagon. I could lynch Vompatti.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I like this post and agree with the assessment of Jay's cop claim.

There are some possibilities I don't think Elohcin quite covered which I think you'd understand better than anyone else in this game -- you were the true cop in Arrested Development, and some of your team mates played a big role in keeping you alive late enough into the game to solve it. How did they do that?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@JJJ - If you truly are the cop, why would you come right out and tell everyone. Aren't you afraid the Mafia will choose to kill you Night 1? Do you have some kind of immunity from being killed Night 1? Or immunity for all night kills?

Why do you want me to broadcast these things?

[G-Man]

I think we need to agree on a lynch as a group so we can overcome this abysmal no lynch wagon. I could lynch Vompatti.

But I thought you wanted a nice spread for the votes with the possibility of a hectic EoD...

One thing I do think is not ideal though is a Day 1 dog pile. GIven that there cannot be a conclusive case against anyone in the absence of objective evidence, I don't think it makes sense for anyone to receive a significant majority of the votes (barring an "I'm scum, please lynch me" or something). In my experience, the most productive Day 1s, the ones that provide a wealth of evidence that can revisited later, are the ones that end with a close tally and a hectic EOD sequence. I would love to see someone get lynched in a 7-6 vote, or a 5-4-4.

Anywho, when I posted this morning, I forgot that my dentist appointment was going to kill my usual lunch break. I'll be ISO'ing here and there as I'm able the rest of the afternoon. I'll share any notes/observations/reads that feel pertinent.



1.14

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think we need to agree on a lynch as a group so we can overcome this abysmal no lynch wagon. I could lynch Vompatti.

But I thought you wanted a nice spread for the votes with the possibility of a hectic EoD...

One thing I do think is not ideal though is a Day 1 dog pile. GIven that there cannot be a conclusive case against anyone in the absence of objective evidence, I don't think it makes sense for anyone to receive a significant majority of the votes (barring an "I'm scum, please lynch me" or something). In my experience, the most productive Day 1s, the ones that provide a wealth of evidence that can revisited later, are the ones that end with a close tally and a hectic EOD sequence. I would love to see someone get lynched in a 7-6 vote, or a 5-4-4.

Anywho, when I posted this morning, I forgot that my dentist appointment was going to kill my usual lunch break. I'll be ISO'ing here and there as I'm able the rest of the afternoon. I'll share any notes/observations/reads that feel pertinent.

I also said I hate no lynches a great deal. And with 4 votes on it, it's going to take a decent number of people coalescing on someone else to get away from it.

In a perfect world we can keep it close, but even a dog pile is better than a no lynch.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'll plant my flag in time. Don't you worry about that. You'll see less of me than you're used to in this game and in future games. I'm trying to be more disciplined in balancing work/home/game so I don't fall behind at work or sneak around the house playing mafia games on my phone. Mafia is the area I have to cut back on out of the three because it is the least important of the three. This means my posts ratio will be skewed more toward shorter reactions and a scant few posts of substance to wrap up the day/night phase and whenever during those phases my lunch break happens to fall.

For what it's worth, my "mafia" GTH read on you felt the least meaningful of the four people I called bad. I hate neutral reads, but you're pretty much there.

[G-Man]

Between the seven votes yet to be cast and the potential for vote-switching, I'd say there's still a very good chance of avoiding the non-lynch. The no-lynch option is as legitimate an option as all the players and should be viewed as part of the vote spread. As long as we lynch somebody, those votes will still be informative. Don't go all Chicken Little on me, JJJ. I'm still inclined to trust you at this point.

[Scotty]

I think we need to agree on a lynch as a group so we can overcome this abysmal no lynch wagon. I could lynch Vompatti.

Ok, I'm fine with this. He's a worse look to you than Polo? Come is a ball of unraveled yarn being sold at full price on the shelf. Polo is a can of albacore tuna being sold as yellowfin. To me anyway.

Again Wilgy your logic makes no sense and seeing how that was the main scenario talking about me that is the one I mentioned. When I'm mafia it is almost impossible to connect me to my teammates I'd never do something so blatant. I'm curious as to why you're pushing this agenda Wilgy, I suspect you and SVS are mafia.

Also you're not the cop since I know both you and JJJ aren't cops. There is no world were either of you are cops, I do however know what JJJ is doing with saying I was his peek. Or a random villager got a random peek which does happen in some games. Either way JJJ isn't the cop.

Oh yeah, that's right. Nevermind.

You have experience with peeks either way; I'm confident you understand the value of giving them as a townie too.

I also understand the value of the peek game as a baddie. Learned it the hard way.

You wanna learn it too JJJ?

Until today I was the only one to bother. If nobody wants to give me cover then I'll just get killed anyway.

JJJ the fake cop thing is going a wee bit to far. :P


It is clear JJJ is providing cover for the real cop whoever he is, I'm not sure if Wilgy is doing the same or not.

I will most likely vote for Wilgy or SVS today.

Best case scenario is they're both civs, and neither is cop tbh. If one is the cop, that makes the doctor's job that much harder. Yet who the hell knows if we can believe you or INH are actually civ checks until JJJ and Wilgy are lynched?

See, fake claims can be useful..but they can also be quite a clusterfox. I would strongly suggest curtailing the peeks. Anyone does that after this is going to look very fishy to me, even if they ARE the real cop. Them's the breaks

Post 18

[G-Man]

Buggers. Forgot the number code again.


1.16

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Best case scenario is they're both civs, and neither is cop tbh. If one is the cop, that makes the doctor's job that much harder. Yet who the hell knows if we can believe you or INH are actually civ checks until JJJ and Wilgy are lynched?

See, fake claims can be useful..but they can also be quite a clusterfox. I would strongly suggest curtailing the peeks. Anyone does that after this is going to look very fishy to me, even if they ARE the real cop. Them's the breaks

I don't agree. I think some of you need to provide me with some freaking cover. I understand that claiming and infodumping are weird things in this environment, but that's the game we're playing. It's legal, and it's necessary. This is how we prevent a confirmed townie from being lynched. This is how we protect our most important roles. I'll return to a conversation I had in the first spectator chat for a heist game on this site:

Spoiler: show

Talk to me about peeks. This is something I feel the players definitely should have employed here, but many of them could be unaware of that strategy completely.

To those who might be unaware of what MP is referring to, a "fake peek" in this setup is an unambiguous read planted into the thread by any player other than the cop meant to appear like it was brought on by the free ID that the cop receives at the start of the game. A "peek" is the same thing except provided by the real cop. I think there are a couple significant benefits to this:

1.) It's the most fundamental method of cop cover, something that is definitely necessary to protect the cop from the sort of misfortune FZ experienced in this Night 1. If players leave fake peeks in the thread and are convincing about it, they might draw night kills from the mafia -- and a vanilla townie being killed is less damaging to the town cause than the cop being killed. It's a form of self-sacrifice and it's very important. This might seem like something from another planet in this Syndicate environment where many people are accustomed to survival being paramount.

2.) It's extremely valuable as a means of generating objective evidence. Players can be read based upon their position in the fake peek scenario. The most significant example of this comes in the form of "SHC" (seer hunt cleared) opportunities. They call it SHC on 2+2 and elsewhere because they tend to play within the "Werewolf" aesthetic more than "Mafia", so you could also call it "CHC" (cop hunt cleared).

What this means is that fake peeks and night kill selections can be analyzed together to get conclusive evidence that a player is innocent. I'll draw an example out using RYM names:

JaggedJimmyJay says on Day 1 "I think Sloonei is a strong town read and will not participate in his lynch today." or more literally "Sloonei is my free peek."

On Night 1, the mafia kill JJJ and he flips vanilla townie.

This means Sloonei is seer hunt cleared -- because in this setup the mafia have a massive motivation to eliminate the cop as quickly as possible, and any night kill choice prior to the cop's demise can be reasoned as an attempt to kill the cop. In this case, the mafia would have killed JJJ thinking he is the cop and that Sloonei is his free peek. If they believe this, then it is impossible for Sloonei to be mafia because the free peek cannot be mafia. Any player who leaves a fake peek that ends up being a mafia player by default cannot be the cop (barring intentional fudging, but this is difficult and rare), and the mafia understand this.

However, there is also some added risk if everyone employs this strategy. As I said, any player who leaves a fake peek on a mafioso by mistake is close to eliminated from contention for being the cop -- and this helps the mafia team narrow down the pool of possibilities. For this reason, it is crucial that players only leave fake peeks on people who they genuinely feel are solid town reads.

Along with this, it's paramount that the cop him/herself leave the necessary breadcrumbs to allow everyone else to know what his/her peeks were in the event of an untimely death. It is a shame when the free peek or any subsequent peek gets lynched because the townies were unable to discern who they were within the cop's content. For this reason, unambiguous reads are often needed for the sake of clarity in that analysis -- and cover is needed from the vanilla townies to ensure the mafia can't isolate the cop based upon those unambiguous reads.

This is why a few of those champs games went into Insane Mode with five or six people all claiming to be the cop. It confuses the mafia their hunt -- and the townies too if people aren't careful.

I probably wouldn't have revealed my n0 peek if I'd realized there'd be so little cover for me here and so much trepidation about the information I'm putting forth. Spare me your fright, y'all! This ain't your pappie's full game. We're on my turf now.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Between the seven votes yet to be cast and the potential for vote-switching, I'd say there's still a very good chance of avoiding the non-lynch. The no-lynch option is as legitimate an option as all the players and should be viewed as part of the vote spread. As long as we lynch somebody, those votes will still be informative. Don't go all Chicken Little on me, JJJ. I'm still inclined to trust you at this point.

That's what I mean. If we can lynch someone at 5 votes over the 4 no lynches (if they aren't moved), that'd be lovely. It doesn't have to be 10-4.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think we need to agree on a lynch as a group so we can overcome this abysmal no lynch wagon. I could lynch Vompatti.

Ok, I'm fine with this. He's a worse look to you than Polo? Come is a ball of unraveled yarn being sold at full price on the shelf. Polo is a can of albacore tuna being sold as yellowfin. To me anyway./quote]

This looks like it came out of the insanifier.

Polo is the standard issue bottom-tier content guy that's in every game. In my experience, that's not a strong indicator that someone is bad. He could be, but I have no clue. Vompatti has at least shown evidence that he cares about receiving votes (which I wouldn't anticipate from him in his town body), and he also contributed to the awful no lynch wagon.

[sig]

I think we need to agree on a lynch as a group so we can overcome this abysmal no lynch wagon. I could lynch Vompatti.

Ok, I'm fine with this. He's a worse look to you than Polo? Come is a ball of unraveled yarn being sold at full price on the shelf. Polo is a can of albacore tuna being sold as yellowfin. To me anyway.

Again Wilgy your logic makes no sense and seeing how that was the main scenario talking about me that is the one I mentioned. When I'm mafia it is almost impossible to connect me to my teammates I'd never do something so blatant. I'm curious as to why you're pushing this agenda Wilgy, I suspect you and SVS are mafia.

Also you're not the cop since I know both you and JJJ aren't cops. There is no world were either of you are cops, I do however know what JJJ is doing with saying I was his peek. Or a random villager got a random peek which does happen in some games. Either way JJJ isn't the cop.

Oh yeah, that's right. Nevermind.

You have experience with peeks either way; I'm confident you understand the value of giving them as a townie too.

I also understand the value of the peek game as a baddie. Learned it the hard way.

You wanna learn it too JJJ?

Until today I was the only one to bother. If nobody wants to give me cover then I'll just get killed anyway.

JJJ the fake cop thing is going a wee bit to far. :P


It is clear JJJ is providing cover for the real cop whoever he is, I'm not sure if Wilgy is doing the same or not.

I will most likely vote for Wilgy or SVS today.

Best case scenario is they're both civs, and neither is cop tbh. If one is the cop, that makes the doctor's job that much harder. Yet who the hell knows if we can believe you or INH are actually civ checks until JJJ and Wilgy are lynched?

See, fake claims can be useful..but they can also be quite a clusterfox. I would strongly suggest curtailing the peeks. Anyone does that after this is going to look very fishy to me, even if they ARE the real cop. Them's the breaks

Post 18

I disagree nothing wrong with players who aren't cops peeking since it covers for the real cop, neither are the cops and I think it will be clear in awhile if one is lying or not.

I think JJJ makes a good point about Vomp, but I'm still eyeing SVS for the reasons that Rabbit stated. If needed I'd vote for Vomp over a no lynch, but would prefer someone else.

[sig]

That was 11

this is 12

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Noting myself at 48 posts this phase right now.

[Scotty]

Best case scenario is they're both civs, and neither is cop tbh. If one is the cop, that makes the doctor's job that much harder. Yet who the hell knows if we can believe you or INH are actually civ checks until JJJ and Wilgy are lynched?

See, fake claims can be useful..but they can also be quite a clusterfox. I would strongly suggest curtailing the peeks. Anyone does that after this is going to look very fishy to me, even if they ARE the real cop. Them's the breaks

I don't agree. I think some of you need to provide me with some freaking cover. I understand that claiming and infodumping are weird things in this environment, but that's the game we're playing. It's legal, and it's necessary. This is how we prevent a confirmed townie from being lynched. This is how we protect our most important roles. I'll return to a conversation I had in the first spectator chat for a heist game on this site:

Spoiler: show

Talk to me about peeks. This is something I feel the players definitely should have employed here, but many of them could be unaware of that strategy completely.

To those who might be unaware of what MP is referring to, a "fake peek" in this setup is an unambiguous read planted into the thread by any player other than the cop meant to appear like it was brought on by the free ID that the cop receives at the start of the game. A "peek" is the same thing except provided by the real cop. I think there are a couple significant benefits to this:

1.) It's the most fundamental method of cop cover, something that is definitely necessary to protect the cop from the sort of misfortune FZ experienced in this Night 1. If players leave fake peeks in the thread and are convincing about it, they might draw night kills from the mafia -- and a vanilla townie being killed is less damaging to the town cause than the cop being killed. It's a form of self-sacrifice and it's very important. This might seem like something from another planet in this Syndicate environment where many people are accustomed to survival being paramount.

2.) It's extremely valuable as a means of generating objective evidence. Players can be read based upon their position in the fake peek scenario. The most significant example of this comes in the form of "SHC" (seer hunt cleared) opportunities. They call it SHC on 2+2 and elsewhere because they tend to play within the "Werewolf" aesthetic more than "Mafia", so you could also call it "CHC" (cop hunt cleared).

What this means is that fake peeks and night kill selections can be analyzed together to get conclusive evidence that a player is innocent. I'll draw an example out using RYM names:

JaggedJimmyJay says on Day 1 "I think Sloonei is a strong town read and will not participate in his lynch today." or more literally "Sloonei is my free peek."

On Night 1, the mafia kill JJJ and he flips vanilla townie.

This means Sloonei is seer hunt cleared -- because in this setup the mafia have a massive motivation to eliminate the cop as quickly as possible, and any night kill choice prior to the cop's demise can be reasoned as an attempt to kill the cop. In this case, the mafia would have killed JJJ thinking he is the cop and that Sloonei is his free peek. If they believe this, then it is impossible for Sloonei to be mafia because the free peek cannot be mafia. Any player who leaves a fake peek that ends up being a mafia player by default cannot be the cop (barring intentional fudging, but this is difficult and rare), and the mafia understand this.

However, there is also some added risk if everyone employs this strategy. As I said, any player who leaves a fake peek on a mafioso by mistake is close to eliminated from contention for being the cop -- and this helps the mafia team narrow down the pool of possibilities. For this reason, it is crucial that players only leave fake peeks on people who they genuinely feel are solid town reads.

Along with this, it's paramount that the cop him/herself leave the necessary breadcrumbs to allow everyone else to know what his/her peeks were in the event of an untimely death. It is a shame when the free peek or any subsequent peek gets lynched because the townies were unable to discern who they were within the cop's content. For this reason, unambiguous reads are often needed for the sake of clarity in that analysis -- and cover is needed from the vanilla townies to ensure the mafia can't isolate the cop based upon those unambiguous reads.

This is why a few of those champs games went into Insane Mode with five or six people all claiming to be the cop. It confuses the mafia their hunt -- and the townies too if people aren't careful.

I probably wouldn't have revealed my n0 peek if I'd realized there'd be so little cover for me here and so much trepidation about the information I'm putting forth. Spare me your fright, y'all! This ain't your pappie's full game. We're on my turf now.

Why would the real cop be the first to come out with a peek expecting more to follow suit? If you're opinion of coming out was predicated so much on "getting cover" why even come out at all? You can't just assume everyone will start breadcrumbing and playing with your style of play. The first person to come out with a peek is already the one that will be getting the mafia's eye anyway.

This is silly talk.

You're a banana in a fruit basket of apples, and asking the apples to put on their banana costumes.

Post 19

[Scotty]

I think we need to agree on a lynch as a group so we can overcome this abysmal no lynch wagon. I could lynch Vompatti.

Ok, I'm fine with this. He's a worse look to you than Polo? Come is a ball of unraveled yarn being sold at full price on the shelf. Polo is a can of albacore tuna being sold as yellowfin. To me anyway./quote]

This looks like it came out of the insanifier.

Polo is the standard issue bottom-tier content guy that's in every game. In my experience, that's not a strong indicator that someone is bad. He could be, but I have no clue. Vompatti has at least shown evidence that he cares about receiving votes (which I wouldn't anticipate from him in his town body), and he also contributed to the awful no lynch wagon.

I thought Polo contributed plenty of content early on in SockWars. This doesn't look like the same Polo as i saw in there, but hey. It's different strokes for different people I guess. I agree with your view of Vomps. If nobody bites on Pol, I'll switch my voteZ

Post 20

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You're a banana in a fruit basket of apples, and asking the apples to put on their banana costumes.

That's exactly right. We're not playing in an apple game. We're playing in a banana game. If the apples cannot adjust, then that's disadvantageous.

[DrWilgy]

Whether something makes sense or not isn't the issue Sig/JJJ, more so the effort to examine something. When given multiple stances to reply to, both of you chose to choose the path of WIFOM.

Sig you did this when he chose to examine my gth path that placed him as a baddie only when the option for him to examine the path of him being good was there.

JJJ you did this when I asked for you to look at Sig's response. Instead of looking at Sig's response you looked at my theory ad rebutted it with WIFOM.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I thought Polo contributed plenty of content early on in SockWars. This doesn't look like the same Polo as i saw in there, but hey. It's different strokes for different people I guess.

Polo was also a major contributor in Battlestar Galactica. That's kind of the problem for me, actually. Are we going to say that Polo's meta can be described as simply as "active = town, inactive = scum"? He strikes me as quite a capable player. When he gives us so little, I feel inclined to give him a little time to find his footing.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Whether something makes sense or not isn't the issue Sig/JJJ, more so the effort to examine something. When given multiple stances to reply to, both of you chose to choose the path of WIFOM.

Sig you did this when he chose to examine my gth path that placed him as a baddie only when the option for him to examine the path of him being good was there.

JJJ you did this when I asked for you to look at Sig's response. Instead of looking at Sig's response you looked at my theory ad rebutted it with WIFOM.

sig's response to you was that the connection to me was not sensible. I told you that I agreed with him. I did employ WIFOM (because sometimes WIFOM is just the truth), but what I said was still directly relevant to the question you asked me.

[Vompatti]

The same law for the banana and the apple is veganism. - Wilhelm Balek

[Scotty]

I thought Polo contributed plenty of content early on in SockWars. This doesn't look like the same Polo as i saw in there, but hey. It's different strokes for different people I guess.

Polo was also a major contributor in Battlestar Galactica. That's kind of the problem for me, actually. Are we going to say that Polo's meta can be described as simply as "active = town, inactive = scum"? He strikes me as quite a capable player. When he gives us so little, I feel inclined to give him a little time to find his footing.

I'm not one to usually follow meta, as I've said before. But I figured you were and would be more likely to take issue with that. His gameplay in BSG I didn't even register.

My day 1 is much more voting for someone that is not participatory and doesn't seem to take issue about it, not just how they usually act. As such, Vomps and Polo are my suspicions right now.

If the President of the United States was playing and was just like "hey guys, nah I don't feel like talking because there's nothing to talk about, PEACE" I would vote him faster than you can say Wilkes Booth.



i understand I am probably now on a watch list for that comment

Post 21

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I do think there are times and places where a meta read is a valuable component of a case. When I employ meta-based reasoning though, it tends to be a bit more nuanced and specific than merely how many posts a person has.

[Vompatti]

Could you guys make make a summary on the current nominees so I could place my vote without reading the thread? I am quite drunk at the moment.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Could you guys make make a summary on the current nominees so I could place my vote without reading the thread? I am quite drunk at the moment.

Normally you wouldn't even care enough to make this request.

[Scotty]

I do think there are times and places where a meta read is a valuable component of a case. When I employ meta-based reasoning though, it tends to be a bit more nuanced and specific than merely how many posts a person has.

You would be able to read people in that sense better than me. But I still contend that our methods are different and not wrong. I feel like I could change up my meta on a whim if I wanted to, and you would be none the wiser. But maybe I'm wrong

Not that I know what my meta is, though. If someone could fill me in, that'd be helpful for next time I'm feeling frisky.

Post 22