RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

[Quin]

Until a herd of angry sheep come charging through this thread it is not absurd enough.

[Golden]

Maybe once he puts the knife down.

I'll put the knife down.

When you're dead. Muahahahahahaha.

[insertnamehere]

Vote Quin

I've got sooooo much power.

well would you look at this suave little marmot?

why, pray tell, have you come to change your mind?

[Marmot]

JaggedJimmyJay is the real Low-Energy Jeb.

[Golden]

Until a herd of angry sheep come charging through this thread it is not absurd enough.

Please, let this happen.

[Epignosis]

If everyone has the same tell, then it isn't meaningful, and isn't a tell.

You must know this.

You are bad.

Semantic bullshit, meaningless, go spend your time talking about someone you haven't already voted for, you're wasting my time, you're wasting your time, this is a waste of time, do better.

That sounds like you suspect me.

Do you suspect me Jay?

If so, then vote for me.

[Golden]

why, pray tell, have you come to change your mind?

Did you consider the possibility that he never had a mind in the first place, and his voting is merely reflexive?

[insertnamehere]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If everyone has the same tell, then it isn't meaningful, and isn't a tell.

You must know this.

You are bad.

Semantic bullshit, meaningless, go spend your time talking about someone you haven't already voted for, you're wasting my time, you're wasting your time, this is a waste of time, do better.

That sounds like you suspect me.

Do you suspect me Jay?

If so, then vote for me.

I do think "G-Man was being a clown" is the most ridiculous bullshit you've ever said in a Mafia game, at least in posts I've seen, so maybe.

[Epignosis]

If everyone has the same tell, then it isn't meaningful, and isn't a tell.

You must know this.

You are bad.

Semantic bullshit, meaningless, go spend your time talking about someone you haven't already voted for, you're wasting my time, you're wasting your time, this is a waste of time, do better.

That sounds like you suspect me.

Do you suspect me Jay?

If so, then vote for me.

I do think "G-Man was being a clown" is the most ridiculous bullshit you've ever said in a Mafia game, at least in posts I've seen, so maybe.

Because you know G-Man better than I do.

[Quin]

That is the opposite of angry. Bad INH, bad!

[insertnamehere]

why, pray tell, have you come to change your mind?

Did you consider the possibility that he never had a mind in the first place, and his voting is merely reflexive?

how are we certain that this game is really happening, and this isn't all taking place in the matrix?

or maybe we're stuck in an autistic little boy's snowglobe.

either one would make sense.

[Golden]

why, pray tell, have you come to change your mind?

Did you consider the possibility that he never had a mind in the first place, and his voting is merely reflexive?

how are we certain that this game is really happening, and this isn't all taking place in the matrix?

or maybe we're stuck in an autistic little boy's snowglobe.

either one would make sense.

IT'S MULHOLLAND DRIVE MAFIA.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUCK

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It's been fun yelling, but I have family here right now and I am being rude sitting here on the laptop. BBL. :P

[insertnamehere]

why, pray tell, have you come to change your mind?

Did you consider the possibility that he never had a mind in the first place, and his voting is merely reflexive?

how are we certain that this game is really happening, and this isn't all taking place in the matrix?

or maybe we're stuck in an autistic little boy's snowglobe.

either one would make sense.

IT'S MULHOLLAND DRIVE MAFIA.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUCK

no hay banda

[G-Man]

Until a herd of angry sheep come charging through this thread it is not absurd enough.

You're welcome.

[Epignosis]

why, pray tell, have you come to change your mind?

Did you consider the possibility that he never had a mind in the first place, and his voting is merely reflexive?

how are we certain that this game is really happening, and this isn't all taking place in the matrix?

or maybe we're stuck in an autistic little boy's snowglobe.

either one would make sense.

We're not stuck in an autistic little boy's snow globe because we're all still here.

An autistic little boy would have smashed us to smithereens the moment we acted out of order.

We are safe from all autistic gods.

[Marmot]

I wouldn't mind a marmot in a snowglobe.

[G-Man]

I wouldn't mind a marmot in a snowglobe.

Any other requests before I go to bed?

[insertnamehere]

why, pray tell, have you come to change your mind?

Did you consider the possibility that he never had a mind in the first place, and his voting is merely reflexive?

how are we certain that this game is really happening, and this isn't all taking place in the matrix?

or maybe we're stuck in an autistic little boy's snowglobe.

either one would make sense.

We're not stuck in an autistic little boy's snow globe because we're all still here.

An autistic little boy would have smashed us to smithereens the moment we acted out of order.

We are safe from all autistic gods.

Tell that to Howie Mandel.

[Golden]

I wouldn't mind a marmot in a snowglobe.

Any other requests before I go to bed?

Modkill the rest of the baddies?

[Golden]

(would be kinda funny if jay is bad and quin is good, lol).

[Quin]

(would be kinda funny if jay is bad and quin is good, lol).

Yeah, that would be hilarious.

[Marmot]

(would be kinda funny if jay is bad and quin is good, lol).

Guys! Don't lynch Jay! That's stupid!

Hehe, what if Jay was mafia?

[Marmot]

I wouldn't mind a marmot in a snowglobe.

Any other requests before I go to bed?

Nope, I'm a happy marmot.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I should have some time in the morning before this phase ends to cover some things I want to ensure I remember:

~ tinfoil case(s)
~ contingencies
~ GTHs

This post is for me.

[Sloonei]

The rest of this day phase will have to proceed without me. I worked all night today and work all morning/afternoon tomorrow.
I see a Jaywagon forming. I've not looked into it too much, but I won't offer much resistance to it. I am not getting the usual townie vibes from Jay this game. It's not something I'm able to articulate yet, but it has been there in the back of my mind. However, my vote's staying on Quin. I've got a more substantial read on him, and the way Scotty behaved yesterday really made me suspect I actually caught him soft-bussong a teammate. I apologize for having withdrawing from this entire phase, life is busy.

[Sloonei]

Wilgy and Rico: move your votes. That's an order!

[Sloonei]

I said I'd be leaving, but REAL QUICK MINI JAY ISO
One thing that hasn't been sitting well with me is how Jay reacted to my initial brush up with Scotty. I went back to have a look, and while I was giving Scotty the heebeejeebies, Jay and Epi were going at it about whatever they were going at it about. The thread was the four of us, barking separately at each other for a little while until Scotty called for outside help. This was Jay's response:

Can someone else comment on my interaction with Sloonei? Am I missing something here? I'm getting the heebeejeebies right now

I'm not sure what you'd be missing. You both seem to suspect Quin, which I don't really agree or disagree with. He's had less significant a presence in this game than usual which I suppose isn't ideal. I'm not sure why Sloonei associated you two as team mates, so he could talk about that. Hey! Sloonei!

This post amounts to nothing. He's just summarizing the events as they happened and offering no thoughts of his own. Where's all the, like, analysis and stuff?

Then he says this:

I think I like Scotty's attempt to get reads, even when he is uncertain of how to go about it. He's trying to expand his Day 1 repertoire and it appears mostly genuine to me. I also don't get the wrong vibes from Sloonei's interrogation tactic. He observed a specific thing (Scotty's read of Quin) that he found interested, and then harnessed that into a an exchange that stands a chance of producing a more complete read.

Not rocking the boat or ruffling any feathers. "You guys both look good, let's stop fighting!"

And then quickly change the subject.

I also never felt strongly about the leetic case, and that hurts Jay in my eyes. I can almost always get behind his early reads when he's town, or at least understand where he's coming from. But leetic just strikes me as an inactive player, and the post Jay kept referencing for his reason of suspicion did not strike me as something that was necessarily suspicious. It was confusing, for sure, but like I said here it seemed more like he was communicating something poorly or simply quoted the wrong post. It's not something I'd base my vote off of.

And then Jay was very quick to hop from leetic to INH at the end of the day. While I maintain the INH vote had some merit yesterday, looking back it's hard to justify reading leetic's posts as more suspicious than Scotty's, and Jay never even entertained the thought of lynching Scotty, from what I can remember.

I may be talking myself into a Jay vote. I think it's possible both he and Quin are bad guys. I'll sleep on it.

[Sloonei]

Marmots are a swing state in this election cycle.

[Marmot]

I said I'd be leaving, but REAL QUICK MINI JAY ISO
One thing that hasn't been sitting well with me is how Jay reacted to my initial brush up with Scotty. I went back to have a look, and while I was giving Scotty the heebeejeebies, Jay and Epi were going at it about whatever they were going at it about. The thread was the four of us, barking separately at each other for a little while until Scotty called for outside help. This was Jay's response:

Can someone else comment on my interaction with Sloonei? Am I missing something here? I'm getting the heebeejeebies right now

I'm not sure what you'd be missing. You both seem to suspect Quin, which I don't really agree or disagree with. He's had less significant a presence in this game than usual which I suppose isn't ideal. I'm not sure why Sloonei associated you two as team mates, so he could talk about that. Hey! Sloonei!

This post amounts to nothing. He's just summarizing the events as they happened and offering no thoughts of his own. Where's all the, like, analysis and stuff?

Then he says this:

I think I like Scotty's attempt to get reads, even when he is uncertain of how to go about it. He's trying to expand his Day 1 repertoire and it appears mostly genuine to me. I also don't get the wrong vibes from Sloonei's interrogation tactic. He observed a specific thing (Scotty's read of Quin) that he found interested, and then harnessed that into a an exchange that stands a chance of producing a more complete read.

Not rocking the boat or ruffling any feathers. "You guys both look good, let's stop fighting!"

And then quickly change the subject.

I also never felt strongly about the leetic case, and that hurts Jay in my eyes. I can almost always get behind his early reads when he's town, or at least understand where he's coming from. But leetic just strikes me as an inactive player, and the post Jay kept referencing for his reason of suspicion did not strike me as something that was necessarily suspicious. It was confusing, for sure, but like I said here it seemed more like he was communicating something poorly or simply quoted the wrong post. It's not something I'd base my vote off of.

And then Jay was very quick to hop from leetic to INH at the end of the day. While I maintain the INH vote had some merit yesterday, looking back it's hard to justify reading leetic's posts as more suspicious than Scotty's, and Jay never even entertained the thought of lynching Scotty, from what I can remember.

I may be talking myself into a Jay vote. I think it's possible both he and Quin are bad guys. I'll sleep on it.

9 of the 12 votes have been placed today. 7 of the 9 are on either Quin or Jay.

While I don't deny the plausibility that they're both mafia, I'd wager it is extremely rare the two leading wagons to take such a high percentage of all the votes and both players be mafia (on the same team).

[Sloonei]

I said I'd be leaving, but REAL QUICK MINI JAY ISO
One thing that hasn't been sitting well with me is how Jay reacted to my initial brush up with Scotty. I went back to have a look, and while I was giving Scotty the heebeejeebies, Jay and Epi were going at it about whatever they were going at it about. The thread was the four of us, barking separately at each other for a little while until Scotty called for outside help. This was Jay's response:

Can someone else comment on my interaction with Sloonei? Am I missing something here? I'm getting the heebeejeebies right now

I'm not sure what you'd be missing. You both seem to suspect Quin, which I don't really agree or disagree with. He's had less significant a presence in this game than usual which I suppose isn't ideal. I'm not sure why Sloonei associated you two as team mates, so he could talk about that. Hey! Sloonei!

This post amounts to nothing. He's just summarizing the events as they happened and offering no thoughts of his own. Where's all the, like, analysis and stuff?

Then he says this:

I think I like Scotty's attempt to get reads, even when he is uncertain of how to go about it. He's trying to expand his Day 1 repertoire and it appears mostly genuine to me. I also don't get the wrong vibes from Sloonei's interrogation tactic. He observed a specific thing (Scotty's read of Quin) that he found interested, and then harnessed that into a an exchange that stands a chance of producing a more complete read.

Not rocking the boat or ruffling any feathers. "You guys both look good, let's stop fighting!"

And then quickly change the subject.

I also never felt strongly about the leetic case, and that hurts Jay in my eyes. I can almost always get behind his early reads when he's town, or at least understand where he's coming from. But leetic just strikes me as an inactive player, and the post Jay kept referencing for his reason of suspicion did not strike me as something that was necessarily suspicious. It was confusing, for sure, but like I said here it seemed more like he was communicating something poorly or simply quoted the wrong post. It's not something I'd base my vote off of.

And then Jay was very quick to hop from leetic to INH at the end of the day. While I maintain the INH vote had some merit yesterday, looking back it's hard to justify reading leetic's posts as more suspicious than Scotty's, and Jay never even entertained the thought of lynching Scotty, from what I can remember.

I may be talking myself into a Jay vote. I think it's possible both he and Quin are bad guys. I'll sleep on it.

9 of the 12 votes have been placed today. 7 of the 9 are on either Quin or Jay.

While I don't deny the plausibility that they're both mafia, I'd wager it is extremely rare the two leading wagons to take such a high percentage of all the votes and both players be mafia (on the same team).

Certainly. But it is always possible for a mafia team to be thoroughly licked.

[Marmot]

Marmots are a swing state in this election cycle.

Marmots don't talk about politics until their bellies are full.

Linki: Ture, I hope their licked so good!

[Sloonei]

Which way are you leaning?

[Marmot]

EBWOP: they're

Linki: I ate a lot of Bulgar and carrots today, so a little to the left.

[Golden]

While I don't deny the plausibility that they're both mafia, I'd wager it is extremely rare the two leading wagons to take such a high percentage of all the votes and both players be mafia (on the same team).

I agree. I'd be surprised if Jay is bad, but it's possible. But it seems exceptionally unlikely that BOTH Jay and Quin are bad.

[Sloonei]

Their counter-votes right now do suggest they're unlikely teammates. But again, if they are both scum they'd be in a very very tight spot right now. Any other action would be bizarre and suicidal in this game right now.

But I shouldn't get ahead of myself. For all I know they're both town.

[Ricochet]

Wilgy and Rico: move your votes. That's an order!

While I don't deny the plausibility that they're both mafia, I'd wager it is extremely rare the two leading wagons to take such a high percentage of all the votes and both players be mafia (on the same team).

I agree. I'd be surprised if Jay is bad, but it's possible. But it seems exceptionally unlikely that BOTH Jay and Quin are bad.

Everything Jay is doing, every post, reeks town.

[DrWilgy]

Wilgy and Rico: move your votes. That's an order!

No, Rico is bad.

[Ricochet]

Wilgy and Rico: move your votes. That's an order!

No, Rico is bad.

[Sloonei]

You are sitting out this lynch by not voting for one of Quin or Jay. Cowards and fence-sitters, that's what you are!

[Epignosis]

Ricochet likes fences.

[Ricochet]

[insertnamehere]

Rico, when you say "make me", what exactly do you want us to do?

Post voting records?

Spoiler: show

I mean, just look at this shit.

insertnamehere
3
JaggedJimmyJay (11), Sloonei (12), Ricochet (14)
21%

leetic
2
Scotty MAFIA (4), Boomslang DEAD CIV (6)
14%

MovingPictures07
1
Beck (2)
7%

Ricochet
1
DrWilgy DEAD CIV (3)
7%

Scotty MAFIA
5
Golden (7), Epignosis (8), leetic (9), insertnamehere (10), Metalmarsh89 (13)
36%

Sloonei
1
Quin (5)
7%

We start out with Scotty being the first one to vote for Leetic, presumably hoping to start a trend. He manages to convince Boomslang, rest his soul, but people aren't buying it. As Scotty gets more and more votes, the mafia obviously have to start sweating. What happened after I cast the 4th vote for Scotty, putting him two votes ahead of Leetic? 3J, Sloonei, and Rico pounce on my post, and now the lynch is tied at 4-3-2, putting Scotty a single vote away from tying things up.

I think it's naive to assume all the other baddies decided to just cannibalize Scotty.

I think it's naive to assume that the baddies wouldn't pounce on a last second lynch candidate who could possibly beat Scotty.

I think it's naive to think that there isn't a single baddie in my voters.

Post ISO's? {WARNING: QUITE LONG}

Spoiler: show

3J has 6 pages of posts. Usually I'd do a back and forth evaluating what I like and what I dislike and come up with a conclusion read at the end. I don't have the patience for that, so I'm (for the most part) focusing on the bad, because I want people to vote for him. Sue me

I think you're town. Emoticon casing is town. You get a town read.

Interesting, why do you think so?

On the surface it may sound like a silly accusation -- that someone's smiley usage is indicative of their alignment. Perhaps it even is silly. That's less important to me, however, than whether it's a genuine product of your sleuthing mindset. I think townies notice smileys and other minor nuances like that; Strawhenge on RYM was one who would talk about smiley trends. Scum players are likely to be less inclined to make this accusation, particularly at a hornet's nest like Epignosis, because it just begs for someone to retort: "Uh, that's ridiculous. You're smearing me with this ridiculous thing you've said."

Perhaps Certified WIFOM Bucket Metalmarsh might be one to deviate from that trend, but I don't get that vibe here.

He's already got his defence here ready, but reading of any kind based on emoticon usage is...a horrible case. My emoticon usage has shit all to do with my alignment and everything to do with my emotions at the time. Couple that with this discussion is ongoing with marmot who I don't feel fantastic about sets off alarm bells.

Also, this:

All town reads, or anything reads, on Day 0 are facile.

I've already got cause to suspect you, and it's Day 0.

Of course it "sounds" logical. That's why a baddie would promote it. It's the easiest, most obvious manner of shading someone else while seeming like the more reasonable party in the discussion. Here's the problem, Mr. List:

1. I think townies lie just as much as baddies, and perhaps even more than baddies (I lie more as a townie easily)

Golden used the 'just because it's easy doesn't make it bad' defence when I accused him of taking the easy route when coming up with potential teammates. I know you read it, but you didn't seem interested in that. Also, on what planet do townies lie more easily?

He has a massive back and forth with Ricochet that actually makes me feel slightly better about him, and slightly worse about Rico. Most of interest to me is that 3J makes some reference to the champs game to suggest why Rico's actions are suspicious, and Rico jumps to suggest he's being suspected for taking inspiration from a baddie in a game he didn't watch when it's got nothing to do with that.

Everyone else: I don't expect you to read our text walls. Once we've had our chat and I am satisfied with whatever conclusion I come to I'll summarize it.

My suspicion of you has grown, sir. Why wouldn't you expect people to read what you've posted and form their own opinions and instead rely on your summary?

Why would we go to the trouble of researching something and forming our own opinions when we can get a nice tidy, completely unbiased five word long summary from FOX News or Breitbart that tells us how to feel about things?

You've given us very little so far other than to criticize the play of someone you have declared a town read for.

If you think my methods are unhelpful, then take a look in the freaking mirror dude. This is useless.

You don't get immunity from having your game criticised just because the person civ-read you once. Wasn't it you who said this:

My objective is to generate a game thread which promotes the highest-possible chance of facilitating strong reads. I change my mind more than anyone I know for this reason -- the only read that matters is the one that accompanies a final vote. Everything else is a part of the process of arriving at that final vote.

It seems contradictory that you'd act so aggressively to someone who's just trying to do the same thing you do.

It appears INH's shtick functions cross-alignment.

The following quote is from Psych Mafia, in which INH was bad, not this game:

So, it looks like the Day 1 crazies have set in, and I think that everyone's more than a little bit coo-coo right now. There seem to be weird suspicions directed from sig at Elo, Lorab, and SVS/Soneji that are based on what looks like literally nothing except minute Day 1 interactions and "Why are you defending him? Your defense is weird! You two must be teammates!" All of it seems incoherent, and none of it jives with me logically or emotionally.

So his refusal to take Day 1 accusations seriously (from me or from anyone else) is not a reason to read him as town. Good then, I won't.

This is a meta read. Curious he looked for a game in which he was bad and didn't think to back it up with a game where he was civ. For the record, here's a civ INH in Triskaedekaphobia also not taking Day 1 accusations seriously. Or are you segmenting the two because the former seems 'funnier'?

All of these imaginary systems that he just keeps coming up with just seem like him posturing to where he can come up with some justification to lynch just about anyone. If I wasn't already committed to voting No Lynch, he'd probably be my top candidate.

I kind of get the feeling that Scotty was caught in a kerfuffle, but not necessarily as a baddie. The down side of laying snares like Sloonei did is that townies often don't know what to do with them either.

It's not a lynch I'll staunchly oppose. I think we could do worse.

He's on both sides of the fence on a Scotty lynch.

I'm leaving my vote where it is. I'm of the opinion that Sloonei was attempting to set me up as the Day 1 lynch with baddie intentions and fell back onto Scotty when I resisted it and he became the center of attention.

Your vote has no utility where it is. Are you content with that?

I'm leaving my vote where it is. I'm of the opinion that Sloonei was attempting to set me up as the Day 1 lynch with baddie intentions and fell back onto Scotty when I resisted it and he became the center of attention.

Your vote has no utility where it is. Are you content with that?

Yup.

It is uncharacteristic of you to ask that, JumbledJollyJim.

I think he is bad, hence my vote. Scotty flipping civ only makes my read stronger. It is uncharacteristic of you, because typically you are all for alternative lynches. As far as Day 1 goes, I think my case is solid and seeing you say it has 'no utility' tells me you were rejecting it as an alternative wagon.

I'm only for alternative lynches when I don't like the one in front, and the move needs to be to a player who stands a realistic chance of being lynched. I don't think there was any traction at all on a Sloonei lynch and that you were very likely to be the only one voting for him when the day ended. I was rejecting it too -- I didn't think he was suspicious then and I still don't.

I didn't like this interaction then and I don't now. 3J has always been for alternatives, and even if he suggests that he doesn't support mine because he doesn't agree with it, I think it's suspicious that he'd try and discredit my vote by saying it had no utility, even with the case I had behind it.

Well I'm going to need to reprocess everything in light of that.

Mmhm. I feel much better about sloonei now.

I might actually feel worse.

I don't know, I'm going to try to block it all out until I have time to reassess objectively.

I'd go so far as to say Sloonei was the reason Scotty was lynched. You haven't made a single hint towards your thinking that he could have been bussed by Sloonei, so I see how you could think that Sloonei was suspicious here, whether he actually voted Scotty or not.

My initial thoughts of the Scotty votes:

They all look better than before. Golden had no obligation to participate in the anti-Scotty thread climate given his more limited availability, but he did it anyway. If he was bad I am not sure he'd show the same enthusiasm and initiative. Epignosis had every opportunity to move his at EOD and he did not. leetic's utter failure to say a word when he placed his self-preservation vote (SPV) might actually make it better than the average SPV. If he is offing his own team mate in the process, I figure he would say something to try to cash in on some of the associated town credit. INH's vote was numerically important, as it put Scotty in the lead. MM's vote was essentially a hammer vote.

Why does marmot deserve civ cred here? I don't really get your leetic thing here but I have nothing bad to say about it.

Everything from about this point here that stands out to me is that 3J is crumbing his intention to vote for me, but he's standing back and saying 'hey, I get it! I just want to gather more information!'

Quin and Scotty interaction:

50 search results for "Scotty" in Quin's ISO.

All I'm getting from this is that a significant part of why you are currently voting for me is because of Scotty's actions, and that is not ideal.

vote Sloonei

1. I didn't accuse MP of being suspicious because I don't think he's suspicious. There was no crack, either. Not sure where you're looking

2. Fair enough.

linki: My reason for the voting is right there. You're basing your vote on me off of Scotty, not me. That's bad.

More specifically, you are using Scotty's actions as a means to vote for me, without any insight as to whether what Scotty is doing is civvie or baddie behaviour. Had he been lynched and flipped bad, you might have a reason to look at him as inspiration to vote me, but as it is, he has not, and therefore you are bad.

But yes, I'll entertain you with a read on Scotty. Give me a little bit of time.

Quin and Sloonei had a long exchange in which Quin felt Sloonei was unfairly voting for him based on Scotty's actions instead of his own. I could reach with the last post and say that he only needed time to stop and think when he was asked for a read on Scotty, which for the purpose of this exercise would be more valuable data.

Quin provided his Scotty read a half hour later

My immediate take is that this case looks genuine. He voiced suspicion of Scotty on a conceptually similar but directionally opposite plane to what he'd said about Sloonei. His perspective that one of this is scum but not both is something he has held to through each phase of the drama -- suspecting Sloonei more than Scotty during Day 1, amping that up after Scotty flipped town, and then reversing it after Scotty re-flipped mafia.

His biggest crime here is selecting Sloonei over Scotty in this dichotomy, and that's made worse given that his vote had no utility. He was the sole Sloonei voter and I don't think a Sloonei lynch was ever likely to develop on Day 1.

So for me this is a conflict between looking good on the surface and being bad in practice.

I could see either Epi or Scotty as bad, but probably not together.

I think an Epi/Rico team is still well possible.
I think a Scotty/Quin team is also well possible.

That's me for now.

I don't think you think either of the latter two at all.

This is distinctly accusatory of Golden. It came out of nowhere, and it has not been revisited. Not great.

~~~

TED CRUZ IS THE ZODIAC KILLER

It is known.

Quin is judicial.

Quin? I have no read on Quin. But fine, if I must. GTH: Bad.

The third one, in light of present information, does look ungood. I don't think it's necessarily a problem that Scotty forced himself to take a side on Quin, it's that he specifically elected "bad". Quin wasn't one of the megalurkers that Scotty normally suspects/pretends to suspect on Day 1. So for Quin to be a "no read" is already off-kilter, and that he went to the bad side with a shrug feels a little like TMI. That's not ideal for Quin.

I agree with this assessment. Though I'm not sure I "like" any particular wall better than the other. I do think Rico could be building a wall of his own though... (thanks, be here all night. Remember to tip your waitress)

Why did you put a gun to your own head and scum read Quin?

Cuz I had no read of him, and figured I should.

so you arbitrarily put a scum read on him?

Basically. I put those reads in as I thought of them, and after the fact realized I forgot about 4 more peeps. I can't really remember Quin's content this game, hence the scum read.

What's your beef with him?

My beef is the same as yours.

Medium rare?

Meh, ok. vote Quin

Scotty and Quin are scum partners.

Woah, I TOTALLY missed this.

Wtf?

I happened to agree with your assessment of JJJ and Rico, doesn't mean I trust you.

Plus, I completely missed the part where you said we were baddie brothers. If I had seen that, I probably would not have even voted for Quin. As it is, I'll probably change it just because I feel like you've been trying to goad me into voting there.

I suspect him just as much as like 4 other people I could be voting for

Sloonei, if you could vote anywhere else, where would it be? Since you have such little reason to be voting for Quin (I assume) as I do.

I think I like Scotty's attempt to get reads, even when he is uncertain of how to go about it. He's trying to expand his Day 1 repertoire and it appears mostly genuine to me. I also don't get the wrong vibes from Sloonei's interrogation tactic. He observed a specific thing (Scotty's read of Quin) that he found interested, and then harnessed that into a an exchange that stands a chance of producing a more complete read.

Sloonei came in saying he read Quin as bad "same as me" but then quoted examples after the fact, as if he stole cookies from the cookie jar and then replaced them with some pieces of cardboard he found in the garage so no one would know he ate the cookies preemptively.

What is your opinion of Quin, JJJ?

Scotty gets caught in the kerfuffle. His response to Sloonei's suggestion to vote Quin was quite accomodating. Scotty is usually not so easy to convince, and I suspect he'd usually be hard to convince even as a bad guy. This almost reads like "challenge accepted", which would be a sensible mindset if Quin is his team mate. He didn't hold his vote there after all, and eventually he found ways to move the discussion away from that (turning the accusations against Sloonei for "manipulation").

~~~

I am not super sure that they're team mates, but I do see the case. I think it's more visible in Scotty's posts than it is in Quin's.

I am sitting on a Quin/INH dichotomy. I would like to see those two fight each other in a battle royale while I spectate and decide my perspective. Like Caesar.

I'll allow Quin to continue doing what he wants to do before I condemn him.

And then there's this little number.

At this point Quin, I'm not certain how far defending yourself can realistically take you. Whether you end up lynched or not, the best thing for the town faction would be for you to focus purely on hunting for baddies and leaving us with a legacy. If it's good enough shit, the votes might evaporate anyway. I say this mostly because it's what I'd most like to see; I've already seen the defenses and I can conjure them before they are shown to me. Give me the suspects.

The choice is yours obviously.

Clearly the scumhunting I have been doing isn't good enough for him. He's going on about legacies, which also raises alarms. Just because I'm dead doesn't mean my scumhunting is right. I don't trust this, I think this is a massive discredit job and a way to try and shut me up.

There's a single specific thing I'd be expecting from a town Quin right now and I have not seen it yet. I will wait for the promised ISOs, but this day phase has few enough waking hours left that I cannot wait forever.

And then this. It just furthers my opinion that he's preparing for me to get all my posts out so that he can fake a now-informed vote. He intended to vote for me long ago, he just wants to look good doing it.

(3J still hasn't responded to that ISO, by the way. He says that he's too focused on finding baddies, playing boldly, and being self-righteous.)

Or gifs of a baby deer and a baby bear being friends?

Spoiler: show

Or just money? If you want money, you came to the right place. Yup, we've got Epignosis in our corner, the finest independent Bandcamp musician this side of the Missip'.

If you vote 3J, maybe a slice of that sweet, sweet Bandcamp money could be, ahem, funnelled your way.

[insertnamehere]

Whoops, the baby deer and baby bear gif didn't work.

Here it is again:

Spoiler: show

[Ricochet]

[Marmot]

If Jay is the bear, who is the deer?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'll at least briefly explain why I'm not responding to the huge Quin ISO:

~ It's an inefficient use of the time I have in this thread.
~ The likelihood that any of the minds will be changed is minimal. Quin himself is sold and needs to stay there because of self-preservation. INH and Epignosis both strike me as the stubborn types.
~ My number one job as a townie is to find baddies. I won't find them bickering over points made against me all day.

[Marmot]

I'll at least briefly explain why I'm not responding to the huge Quin ISO:

~ It's an inefficient use of the time I have in this thread.
~ The likelihood that any of the minds will be changed is minimal. Quin himself is sold and needs to stay there because of self-preservation. INH and Epignosis both strike me as the stubborn types.
~ My number one job as a townie is to find baddies. I won't find them bickering over points made against me all day.

If you were the leading wagon, would you then respond to his ISO?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'll at least briefly explain why I'm not responding to the huge Quin ISO:

~ It's an inefficient use of the time I have in this thread.
~ The likelihood that any of the minds will be changed is minimal. Quin himself is sold and needs to stay there because of self-preservation. INH and Epignosis both strike me as the stubborn types.
~ My number one job as a townie is to find baddies. I won't find them bickering over points made against me all day.

If you were the leading wagon, would you then respond to his ISO?

I was the leading wagon and I didn't respond to his ISO.