RED vs. BLUE: Endgame

[Marmot]

How do you know the Golden and Ricochet kills were the serial killer kills?

They were both killed on the same night. I don't think they could be.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

How do you know the Golden and Ricochet kills were the serial killer kills?

I don't. One of them would be, presumably. They died on the same night. I'm telling you why neither of them makes sense. Do you have some alternative theory to share?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Potentially RIP me.

If I'm dead, don't be dumb. Good luck town.

[Sloonei]

In God We Trust

[Marmot]

Good luck to both of you. May one of you be scum and die a fiery death.

[Epignosis]

If a civilian is lynched, I will refuse to stand for the national anthem.

[Sloonei]

This is actually the result I was rooting for. I completely lack confidence, so a 50/50 lynch result is the most accurate reflection of how I feel.

[Marmot]

If a civilian is lynched, I will refuse to stand for the national anthem.

Will you sing a song for america?

[Epignosis]

If a civilian is lynched, I will refuse to stand for the national anthem.

Will you sing a song for america?

I can just about play it on the violin.

[Marmot]

Maybe this is taking a while because G-Man doesn't know what alignment to list the dead player as.

[Sloonei]

reywaS confirmed Whig.

[Marmot]

Maybe Jay is modkilled for talking too much.

[G-Man]

ON THE TOSS OF A COIN

It was a tense and, at times, dramatic meeting. Voices were raised and not just so Donald could hear everyone through Skype. His visit to Washington state was going well. It’s true what they say- there really are no blue states, just blue cities surrounded by less populous red counties.

After all was said and done, the vote was close. Two members of the Inner Circle couldn’t be bothered to vote. One voted on his own. The rest of the votes were split among two people.

“Well now what the hell do we do?” Donald asked. “If nobody’s willing to budge then nothing is going to get done.”

“Sounds a lot like Congress,” someone joked. A few nervous chuckles escaped into the ether.

“What about a coin toss?” another person suggested.

“A coin toss,” Trump pondered. “Very democratic. I like it, believe me. But we gotta keep it fair. Get Barron in there to flip it and call out the results.”

One of the Inner Circle went off to fetch the youngest of the Trump children. He looked none too pleased to be interrupted from his dinner.

“Okay champ, use your commemorative Trump family coin for this. I know they’re legit because I designed them myself. Make it fast though because I’ve got a rally to prep for tonight in Everett. I’m telling you, tt’s gonna be a yuuuge event. We’re going to win a lot of people over. I’m sure of it. You can stay up to watch it if you want.”

The Inner Circle waited nervously as Barron flipped a gleaming platinum coin and marked down the results. He looked around the room, making everyone sweat with anticipation. The boy stopped and stared down the loser of the coin toss.

“You,” he said, “come with me.”

“Thank you, Barron,” Donald said through Skype. “You can handle it from here.”

The young Trump stared down the man again, as if trying to judge him already. “Come with me,” he said and led the man to the exit.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

reywaS has been removed from the Inner Circle via coin flip. He was Jim Murphy, Donald Trump’s national political director and a vanilla civvie.

It is now Night 3.
You have until noon (EST) to send me your night actions.

[G-Man]

Golden is replacing leetic effective immediately.

[Marmot]

Aw rats, maybe...

[insertnamehere]

Welcome back Golden. Hopefully, we can not talk each other's head off about strategy gubbins.

RIP Rey/Mp, wish you were active.

3J, if Wilgy is bad, who do you think his teammate is?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Sometimes the game of Mafia is a prick. Hopefully that flip changes later.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

3J, if Wilgy is bad, who do you think his teammate is?

My first guess would be MM. Or you. I don't know, I'll need to take a closer look.

[Epignosis]

Yawn.

[Ricochet]

china!!

...as the strong man exults in his physical ability, delighting in such exercises as call his muscles into action, so glories the analyst in that moral activity which disentangles. He derives pleasure from even the most trivial occupations bringing his talents into play. He is fond of enigmas, of conundrums, of hieroglyphics; exhibiting in his solutions of each a degree of acumen which appears to the ordinary apprehension preternatural...

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Hey serial killer: you'd better kill a mafia tonight or you're probably screwed. Cool, thanks.

[Golden]

Hi everyone

Welcome back Golden. Hopefully, we can not talk each other's head off about strategy gubbins.

I agree. At least now that you know I was good and I know this isn't much different from the Office where you were good, neither of us are reading the other as bad for it (which was really what was causing the tension).

That's not to say I'm assuming you are good, but I don't think I would have voted for you yesterday.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Immediate thoughts on Day 3, Golden?

[Golden]

Immediate thoughts on Day 3, Golden?

I felt sorry for you, you seemed so alone!

I probably would have voted the marmot or wilgy yesterday in a vacuum, but I missed end of day and don't really know who voted for whom and I wouldn't have opposed the rey lynch.

(Sorry, not very deep thoughts yet. G asked me to sub right after I died, but I said effectively 'only if you think it's fair on whoever killed me' and I then didn't hear back for a couple of days even though he read my PM, so I assumed I wasn't subbing in and so didn't really read the thread in depth or apply critical thought. It was a surprise to see I was back in when I woke up! I also note my sister-in-law is coming from across the ditch to stay with us for the next few days, so my participation will drop a fair bit and I won't have any access to my PC at home since it will be her room).

[Golden]

Also, thoughts on my kill are, mafia did it. I think that the vig/sk kill was rico given he was literally asking for it. Which means I think the sk is someone with a sense of humour (although that doesn't narrow it down a lot in this group).

One thing I still feel very confident in saying is that I do not believe Jay is responsible for any of the kills. His posts from the start of the game until now reek of trying to solve the game, and the kills don't make sense from his perspective.

One thing I realised I didn't fully think through and explain while I was alive, when epi said 'thats what makes it a good play' in response to my points about mafia not doing what jay did, is this:

1) What makes something a good play for mafia is that it makes them less likely to be lynched.
2) Defending a person who ends up flipping scum on day one makes you MORE likely to be lynched. People get lynched for it over and over again... it's usually inevitable.
3) That's why mafia don't do it. And while I understand epi's point about 'doing the unexpected' as a baddie, it's still actually a bad play, when you are mafia, to do the thing that has a much bigger chance of getting you lynched, even if its very uncommon for baddies to do it.

I was able to finally fully figure out why I don't believe Jay would ever have done that. It's just a bad play on any level.

But besides that, I think jay has done a lot of good solving in this game. If he is bad, bravo for having me fooled.

[Quin]

Aww.

[Golden]

Current rainbow list

Strong town

Jay
Quin

Slight town

inh
epi
sloonei

moderate bad

Marmot
Wilgy

I've moved sloonei down to slight town only because it feels like he is coasting since he successfully took down scotty, and it's beginning to make me paranoid. I also don't much like sloonei's suspicion of Jay. Unlike other people, I'd expect sloonei to see what I'm seeing about Jay.

[Sloonei]

Current rainbow list

Strong town

Jay
Quin

Slight town

inh
epi
sloonei

moderate bad

Marmot
Wilgy

I've moved sloonei down to slight town only because it feels like he is coasting since he successfully took down scotty, and it's beginning to make me paranoid. I also don't much like sloonei's suspicion of Jay. Unlike other people, I'd expect sloonei to see what I'm seeing about Jay.

Anything but coasting. I just haven't been here. See that other game we're playing right now.

[Golden]

Anything but coasting. I just haven't been here. See that other game we're playing right now.

I recognise that's true. And I recognise it's to some extent paranoia. It's why I've only put you down to 'slight town' and not 'bad'. But, it would still be very easy for you to pave your way to endgame as a baddie this way, so I can't help it.

[Sloonei]

Anything but coasting. I just haven't been here. See that other game we're playing right now.

I recognise that's true. And I recognise it's to some extent paranoia. It's why I've only put you down to 'slight town' and not 'bad'. But, it would still be very easy for you to pave your way to endgame as a baddie this way, so I can't help it.

I do not disagree with that.

[Epignosis]

Current rainbow list

Strong town

Jay

The guy who tried to save Scotty Day 1.
The guy who helped lynch the first Quin Day 2.
The guy who lynched reywaS the inactive Day 3.

I must not be doing it right.

[Golden]

I must not be doing it right.

Well, we agree on that.

[Golden]

Arguing someone is bad because they are wrong is a fallacy, and you know it and would call others out for using it, so I'm not sure why you spend so much time pushing that angle?

Did you end up voting Jay or rey yesterday?

[Epignosis]

Arguing someone is bad because they are wrong is a fallacy, and you know it and would call others out for using it, so I'm not sure why you spend so much time pushing that angle?

Did you end up voting Jay or rey yesterday?

I voted 3J.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

When you're bad it's so easy to be right.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don't really have a problem with Sloonei suspecting me, since he's admitted he isn't paying close attention to content. On the surface in this game I probably look like I have been chaos posting, even though it's not actually true.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I still think Wilgy's vote yesterday stinks. Marmot was willing to lynch reywaS and claimed he was willing to lynch Wilgy, but he never actually placed that vote despite me having had my vote on Wilgy for 90% of Day 3. That's my primary concern with him now.

[Sloonei]

I don't really have a problem with Sloonei suspecting me, since he's admitted he isn't paying close attention to content. On the surface in this game I probably look like I have been chaos posting, even though it's not actually true.

A lot of it is still tied to early game feelings of uneasiness I had, back when I was fully caught up on things. I have more free time this week so I am hoping to fix things, assuming I make it through the night.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think Epi's mindset is very simplistic, but it's also one he adopted as a townie in Triskaidekaphobia when he wasted all of his energy chasing me around -- that I was wrong on the first two lynches and it was suspicious of me to be wrong on the first two lynches. I thought he was scapegoating me then as a baddie. This time I'll just assume that's how he thinks.

[Golden]

Why was rey the vote not wilgy yesterday. From someone who wasn't present, in the way that playing makes you understand how things go down, what led to the lynch going down on rey yesterday?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Why was rey the vote not wilgy yesterday. From someone who wasn't present, in the way that playing makes you understand how things go down, what led to the lynch going down on rey yesterday?

I was on Wilgy like glue ever since the moment he voted me. Absolutely nobody else showed any real enthusiasm about it. Marmot ended up voting for reywaS, and I joined him there in the end. Sloonei showed up late and was faced with a JJJ vs. reywaS tally, and he opted for the latter. He put reywaS in the lead, and Epi tied it by moving to me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think Epi's mindset is very simplistic, but it's also one he adopted as a townie in Triskaidekaphobia when he wasted all of his energy chasing me around -- that I was wrong on the first two lynches and it was suspicious of me to be wrong on the first two lynches. I thought he was scapegoating me then as a baddie. This time I'll just assume that's how he thinks.

Reference

[Epignosis]

I think Epi's mindset is very simplistic, but it's also one he adopted as a townie in Triskaidekaphobia when he wasted all of his energy chasing me around -- that I was wrong on the first two lynches and it was suspicious of me to be wrong on the first two lynches. I thought he was scapegoating me then as a baddie. This time I'll just assume that's how he thinks.

Reference

I trust DrWilgy.

Inconsistent bastard.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Yep, I had a different opinion of a guy in a different game.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I will grant though that my reads in this game, at least among those revealed so far, have been turds. I deserve ridicule for that if nothing else.

[Epignosis]

I will grant though that my reads in this game, at least among those revealed so far, have been turds. I deserve ridicule for that if nothing else.

Happy to oblige.

[insertnamehere]

Also, thoughts on my kill are, mafia did it. I think that the vig/sk kill was rico given he was literally asking for it. Which means I think the sk is someone with a sense of humour (although that doesn't narrow it down a lot in this group).

One thing I still feel very confident in saying is that I do not believe Jay is responsible for any of the kills. His posts from the start of the game until now reek of trying to solve the game, and the kills don't make sense from his perspective.

One thing I realised I didn't fully think through and explain while I was alive, when epi said 'thats what makes it a good play' in response to my points about mafia not doing what jay did, is this:

1) What makes something a good play for mafia is that it makes them less likely to be lynched.
2) Defending a person who ends up flipping scum on day one makes you MORE likely to be lynched. People get lynched for it over and over again... it's usually inevitable.
3) That's why mafia don't do it. And while I understand epi's point about 'doing the unexpected' as a baddie, it's still actually a bad play, when you are mafia, to do the thing that has a much bigger chance of getting you lynched, even if its very uncommon for baddies to do it.

I was able to finally fully figure out why I don't believe Jay would ever have done that. It's just a bad play on any level.

But besides that, I think jay has done a lot of good solving in this game. If he is bad, bravo for having me fooled.

Here's a good question for the entire thread:

What has Jay solved in this entire game?

What has Jay done to help the civilians this entire game?

What can we point to Jay providing to the thread that has benefitted the civilians in any way, shape, or form?

I believe the answer to the above three questions to be a loud, hearty, all-caps: "NOTHING"

He's done a whole lot of analysis, sure. He's analyzed and postulated and WIFOM'd until he's red in the face.

To what avail?

Here we are, Night 3, and he's encouraged us to lynch a civilian every damn lynch.

When are we going to stop defending him because he types a lot of words and just lynch him already?

Golden, it's time to set aside your rose-colored WIFOM glasses. You could interpret the Day 1 vote a hundred different ways, and I'm still not going to buy you clearing him as civ for it.

Here is my platform:

1. Lynch the biggest and most ineffectual thread controller in the game.

2. Not lose from the probable LYLO Day 4.

3. Change the American government system to a dictator, and make me that dictator.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You sure found a way to say "he was wrong" in a lot more than three words.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It's fun because people are giving me shit for being wrong, and they're giving Golden shit for not giving me shit for being wrong, all the while those doing so are wrong.

[insertnamehere]

It's fun because people are giving me shit for being wrong, and they're giving Golden shit for not giving me shit for being wrong, all the while those doing so are wrong.

You you're basically saying that I'm wrong?