Inception [END]

[Master Radishes]

Actually, vote switch.

My two top townies and the only member of the 'Gang of 6' I trust are on [VOTE: Elephant] aubergine.

[Hyena]

@Hyena I'm finding your ISO difficult to read. Can you do me a favour and summarise your general thought process during the vanity debacle?

The vote earlier was to prompt you for this sort of thing, but you ignored me.

So, I liked Elephant's points against Vanity, primarily the one about him trying to form a towncore with the Dragomir voters, especially considering that he said multiple times that he couldn't read me. Seemed sketchy to me.

I think I made an entire post about it. Lemme see if I can pull it up and maybe add some comments to it.

[Master Radishes]

Elephant 4 [Long Con, iaafr, Michelle, Nutella]
JackofHearts2005 2 [Epignosis, Dom]
Long Con 2 [Macdougall, JackofHearts2005]
Nutella 2 [Lady Lambdadelta, Evenstar]
Evenstar 2 [112, Sprityo]
Epignosis 1 [Pawn Lelouch]
Hyena 1 [Master Radishes]
iaafr 1 [Quin]
Dom 1[Elephant]
Trustworthy Liberal 1 [Hyena]

3 Not Voting: Juliets, ColinisCool, Trustworthy Liberal

17 votes cast and the largest wagon is 4.

What an absolutely atrocious votal. We need to get our shit together.

(I guess it's better than "nova/jack is obvious scum, lol", but not by much.)

@Hyena
@Elephant
@Quin
@Master Radishes
@Pawn Lelouch

All of you, make your strongest case for why the person you are on right now deserves to be in contention. If you don't have a case you're willing to put time in to defend, vote someone else.

@juliets
@ColinIsCool
@Trustworthy Liberal

This may be the most important day phase in the entire game. We need your input. Put a damn vote down already.

Dom is an infolynch at this point. If he flips scum, Michelle is absolutely town, unless she refuses to commit -- and if she refuses, I need to re-evaluate her.
I have made a case on Radishes for the F3 lynch.
Lynching in my group is straight POE.

Sorry, hold on. You want to infolynch at this stage ? And you want it to be Dom, because it'll clear Michelle?

I have too much respect for you to think that's town mindset logic.

[Elephant]

Man, I'm feeling sassy today.

Please don't make another shitstorm happen. I have a hard time biting back my reaction to "If he’s town he’s done nothing good to help solve the game" as it is.

[Master Radishes]

Man, I'm feeling sassy today.

Please don't make another shitstorm happen. I have a hard time biting back my reaction to "If he’s town he’s done nothing good to help solve the game" as it is.

Which shitstorm did I make happen?

[Elephant]

Elephant 4 [Long Con, iaafr, Michelle, Nutella]
JackofHearts2005 2 [Epignosis, Dom]
Long Con 2 [Macdougall, JackofHearts2005]
Nutella 2 [Lady Lambdadelta, Evenstar]
Evenstar 2 [112, Sprityo]
Epignosis 1 [Pawn Lelouch]
Hyena 1 [Master Radishes]
iaafr 1 [Quin]
Dom 1[Elephant]
Trustworthy Liberal 1 [Hyena]

3 Not Voting: Juliets, ColinisCool, Trustworthy Liberal

17 votes cast and the largest wagon is 4.

What an absolutely atrocious votal. We need to get our shit together.

(I guess it's better than "nova/jack is obvious scum, lol", but not by much.)

@Hyena
@Elephant
@Quin
@Master Radishes
@Pawn Lelouch

All of you, make your strongest case for why the person you are on right now deserves to be in contention. If you don't have a case you're willing to put time in to defend, vote someone else.

@juliets
@ColinIsCool
@Trustworthy Liberal

This may be the most important day phase in the entire game. We need your input. Put a damn vote down already.

Dom is an infolynch at this point. If he flips scum, Michelle is absolutely town, unless she refuses to commit -- and if she refuses, I need to re-evaluate her.
I have made a case on Radishes for the F3 lynch.
Lynching in my group is straight POE.

Sorry, hold on. You want to infolynch at this stage ? And you want it to be Dom, because it'll clear Michelle?

I have too much respect for you to think that's town mindset logic.

I'm not convincing you anyway. You're not baiting me here.

[Master Radishes]

Elephant 4 [Long Con, iaafr, Michelle, Nutella]
JackofHearts2005 2 [Epignosis, Dom]
Long Con 2 [Macdougall, JackofHearts2005]
Nutella 2 [Lady Lambdadelta, Evenstar]
Evenstar 2 [112, Sprityo]
Epignosis 1 [Pawn Lelouch]
Hyena 1 [Master Radishes]
iaafr 1 [Quin]
Dom 1[Elephant]
Trustworthy Liberal 1 [Hyena]

3 Not Voting: Juliets, ColinisCool, Trustworthy Liberal

17 votes cast and the largest wagon is 4.

What an absolutely atrocious votal. We need to get our shit together.

(I guess it's better than "nova/jack is obvious scum, lol", but not by much.)

@Hyena
@Elephant
@Quin
@Master Radishes
@Pawn Lelouch

All of you, make your strongest case for why the person you are on right now deserves to be in contention. If you don't have a case you're willing to put time in to defend, vote someone else.

@juliets
@ColinIsCool
@Trustworthy Liberal

This may be the most important day phase in the entire game. We need your input. Put a damn vote down already.

Dom is an infolynch at this point. If he flips scum, Michelle is absolutely town, unless she refuses to commit -- and if she refuses, I need to re-evaluate her.
I have made a case on Radishes for the F3 lynch.
Lynching in my group is straight POE.

Sorry, hold on. You want to infolynch at this stage ? And you want it to be Dom, because it'll clear Michelle?

I have too much respect for you to think that's town mindset logic.

I'm not convincing you anyway. You're not baiting me here.

Fine, I'll try to cut down the sass. I do mean it that I respect you, though.

But we're not lynching Dom today just to see how that makes Michelle look. We are far too deep into this game, and the mafia are doing far too well, to be wasting a lynch on that. Vote for Dom if he's a wolf, not because he's an info lynch.

[Hyena]

@Hyena I'm finding your ISO difficult to read. Can you do me a favour and summarise your general thought process during the vanity debacle?

The vote earlier was to prompt you for this sort of thing, but you ignored me.

elephant dfaraday creature boo all didn't vote on drago

2 of them voted on 112

Eh, none of that matters right now. All the info we forced out at EoD yesterday (e.g. wagon movements when votes were tied, inactivity, etc.) will be more useful once we've got a better idea about 112's alignment, because do you know who else didn't vote Dragomir? 112. I don't believe for a second that 112 being the counterwagon clears them.

It bothered me that he was trying to use people voting on 112 as a reason to include them in the PoE.

focus on us within the group

Nah. Although we are going to be lynching within the group, I don't think we need to narrow our focus to just us. People here giving thoughts about D1 and about people not in our group can help us form reads on people. :P

I also didn't like him trying to narrow the discussion to just us.

The Elephant brain take of today's events is depressing. We started off with vanity. suggesting to look at a group of 5 players only, those whom I have mentally dubbed The Expendables, and despite my protests, this is largely what we have been doing. The fruit of this effort leaves us no wiser than before. DFaraday is still absent. Boo acted as I did, and voted outside the box, but found no traction. Trustworthy Liberal stayed in character and stood up for himself. Long Con actually made a case inside the box, and we looked at it and said "meh". Juliets was Juliets, digging. Elephant was Elephant, seeds and all.

vanity. is absent. Long Con's D1 vote looks like a bus, but his rainbow reads already have Dragomir at the bottom. We are looking at the votes that were called out; Juliets, do you know if there were votes that had no call-outs? We have somehow been treading water all day, and I wonder why.

I am going to be absent later on as I need to be a Singing Elephant today. I hope to be back in time to maybe sling my vote somewhere else and not stay on my vanity wagon, and who knows if I'll ever have an opportunity for that pun again.

Perhaps I haven't been very vocal about my thoughts on what's gone on today. From The Expendables, both Juliets and Long Con have climbed up in my town rankings, Boo is in null territory for me but I feel like I'll have an easier time reading him than I did Spiny given enough time, TLib potentially townslipped, you are you, and Creature is eh, okay I guess? DFaraday is mostly just a policy lynch for me at this point, and even then, I'm seriously considering going somewhere else just for the lack of info from a DFaraday lynch.

Outside of the The Expendables, Benson has climbed up to my top town slot, Vanity has fallen down in my town rankings, Nutella too to a certain degree.

Another reason Vanity fell from my townreads was because others, coincidentally some of the ones Vanity wanted to keep as lynch options, had climbed up in my reads.

Here's another post I made talking about the contrast in attiude he was showing at that time compared to the beginning of the game:

Spoiler: show

@vanity.

Ugh vanity, the only thing Im nervous about is how concerned you are about how "villagery" you've been. That just makes me suspect you're a wolf that thinks he played a clean game and deserves credit.

literally if you think i'm villagery, i'm probably a villager. that's how my meta goes unless i am able to get to a point where i am able to blur my ranges.

every single time i've been a villager i've been townread in a decent rate. not an exception here.

The attitude you're showing here is very different from the attitude you were showing at the beginning in the game. For reference, this is what you posted near the beginning of the game:

i'm probably going to get questions about my nanook read so i'll just explain that now

Hey guys, I was busy the entirety of yesterday and forgot to check in here briefly, but all you missed was me saying hello and kill Lexi forthwith.

That is all, I’m going back to driving now. Someone wake me up at like D6

nanook instantly pushing lld in this post reads to me as "i've been burned by this person bad and i want to lynch them out of paranoia" to me. it's like a classic v thought process in my opinion. now, he has a good wolf game and i wouldn't take this to the grave, but i think it was enough to give him a townread, especially since no one else v read him.

I'm calling Vanity lock town for this post and, like, 5-10 of the posts he made before this one.

Vanity is the towniest town in this game, and I hope we're all in agreement on this.

...am i? am i just this easy of a read?

i feel like nothing i've done is outside of my wolfrange but... k.

To be fair, I've not seen your scum game. But I read you in G7 (you died as I subbed in) and watched you in in WC1, and you play this game similarly to how I do. Everything I see from you so far has been so pure, IMO.

How would you describe your wolf range, then?

my wolf range, huh...

while i haven't wolfed on forum before, and this game is another non-turbo village game from me, because randing wolf is impossible for some reason, but i'm the powerwolf type. a lot of people that know me from dm wouldn't give v reads on me this early, because they know i can give compelling thoughts on the game as a wolf.

i'd post around the same as either alignment. if i'm in the thread, i'm posting. that's all there really is to it. if you think i'm pure, cool. i don't think you're a wolf at the moment, so i'm comfortable with this.

What's changed since then? You think you're being villagery now obviously, but back when you made the above two posts, you mentioned that you didn't feel like you had done anything outside of your wolfrange. What specifically do you think you've done that finally put you outside of your wolfrange?

He responded to this, but if I recall correctly, he didn't really give a satisfying answer to it.

(more to come)

[Elephant]

Here's a question for the Syndicate people. I'm not used to playing with role points. Would the power roles usually still have role points left this far into the game, or would they be spent? Or would the PRs have kept a RP saved up? How would new players handle this?
The thought behind this is, is it safe to talk about PRs now? If the RPs are spent, we are all as good as vanilla now, and if we can identify roles, we have townclears.

[112]

ill just stay on elephant for now because im torn here

hyena wagon building would be nice

would prefer @112 get off evenstar for today and talk to me more about hyena and elephant

i dont trust these animals

ok. i am about to catch up.

[VOTE: Elephant] aubergine

[Elephant]

Elephant 4 [Long Con, iaafr, Michelle, Nutella]
JackofHearts2005 2 [Epignosis, Dom]
Long Con 2 [Macdougall, JackofHearts2005]
Nutella 2 [Lady Lambdadelta, Evenstar]
Evenstar 2 [112, Sprityo]
Epignosis 1 [Pawn Lelouch]
Hyena 1 [Master Radishes]
iaafr 1 [Quin]
Dom 1[Elephant]
Trustworthy Liberal 1 [Hyena]

3 Not Voting: Juliets, ColinisCool, Trustworthy Liberal

17 votes cast and the largest wagon is 4.

What an absolutely atrocious votal. We need to get our shit together.

(I guess it's better than "nova/jack is obvious scum, lol", but not by much.)

@Hyena
@Elephant
@Quin
@Master Radishes
@Pawn Lelouch

All of you, make your strongest case for why the person you are on right now deserves to be in contention. If you don't have a case you're willing to put time in to defend, vote someone else.

@juliets
@ColinIsCool
@Trustworthy Liberal

This may be the most important day phase in the entire game. We need your input. Put a damn vote down already.

Dom is an infolynch at this point. If he flips scum, Michelle is absolutely town, unless she refuses to commit -- and if she refuses, I need to re-evaluate her.
I have made a case on Radishes for the F3 lynch.
Lynching in my group is straight POE.

Sorry, hold on. You want to infolynch at this stage ? And you want it to be Dom, because it'll clear Michelle?

I have too much respect for you to think that's town mindset logic.

I'm not convincing you anyway. You're not baiting me here.

Fine, I'll try to cut down the sass. I do mean it that I respect you, though.

But we're not lynching Dom today just to see how that makes Michelle look. We are far too deep into this game, and the mafia are doing far too well, to be wasting a lynch on that. Vote for Dom if he's a wolf, not because he's an info lynch.

If Michelle is town, Dom is 100% a wolf, pending Michelle's reaction.

[Master Radishes]

Thanks Hyena.

I mean, I completely agree with vanity about the lynch group, and I completely disagree with you that his 'change' in attitude about his own game was scummy. But the point now is for me to determine if you believed it.

[112]

I would like to kill Long Con more than I would like to kill elephant. Long Con is more classically scummy in my opinion.

@Long Con
@Quin

Did ya’ll miss me? I haven’t seen you since I got back. Gimmie some #content.

Soonish. I'll give you my catchup hot takes, still reading up. Epignosis - Evenstar took a turn when Epi decided she's not scum but is actually town, for the Four Reasons. I was seeing Ep as the Civ side of things there, but this turnaround could be a calculated pocketing ploy. LLD and Eva voting nutella is not that cool, nutella has looked very town over the days, and the timing of Eva's vote wasn't the best. 112 maybe sketchy. Michelle maybe sketchy.

This is a very reserved style of writing and the post seems to follow a checklist.

112 captures part of the spirit here

i think ive said this w.r.t nut, perhaps incorrectly, but i dont feel a town undercurrent with long con's thoughts. on elephant, individually, i'm torn. i'd rahter kill long con than elephant.

very good post. thank you.

[Jackofhearts2005]

well im back to places where people suspect dom with me

in the layer with me/jack/epi/dom, jack/epi seemed convinced that dom was town but dom kept sussing jack in a way i felt was scummy but apparently didnt ping jack?

Legit Dom always scumreads me. It’s like being pinged by my Fitbit being on my wrist.

[112]

wait just saw that apparently Benson was annoyed we didn't lynch TL. there could be something there- not so likely that he and i both screw up a read like that, even if it's early tbh

[Elephant]

Man, I'm feeling sassy today.

Please don't make another shitstorm happen. I have a hard time biting back my reaction to "If he’s town he’s done nothing good to help solve the game" as it is.

Which shitstorm did I make happen?

Apologies, this might become your first, but wouldn't be the first for this game day.
It's a pub brawl after all.

[Master Radishes]

wait just saw that apparently Benson was annoyed we didn't lynch TL. there could be something there- not so likely that he and i both screw up a read like that, even if it's early tbh

Yeah, I trust his reads, and I have a growing SR on T Lib myself.

There was a brief wagon on him that a bunch of people hopped on, then hopped off. I'm bad at in-the-moment wagonomics so I don't know what it means.

Do you want to make it a counter-wagon with me?

[VOTE: Trustworthy Liberal] aubergine

[Hyena]

Thirdly, look at these wagons at EoD1 and EoD2:

EoD1

[10] Dragomir - Benson, nutella, vanity., Long Con, Master Radishes, Hyena, Trustworthy Liberal, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, Pawn Lelouch, juliets
[7] 112 - Creature, Evenstar, TonyStarkPrime, novaselinenever, Elephant, Epignosis, Jackofhearts2005

EoD2
[5] boo - Long Con, Hyena, nutella, Benson, vanity
[5] DFar - TLib, Creature, juliets, boo, Elephant

All of the Boo voters at EoD2 were Dragomir voters at EoD1. Considering that both Boo and DFar were town, I wouldn't think that scum would favor one wagon over another. Thus, I'm starting to have a feeling that it's possible that there is scum on the Boo wagon, that someone in those 5 people did bus Dragomir, and that scum maybe just wanted to continue to vote with the group that they voted with before. I'm actually surprised that THAT many of us ended up voting together again.

(Also, just to note, TLib was the only Dragomir voter that voted DFar yesterday.)

When I made this post, I specifically was referring to Vanity when I was talking about someone wanting to keep the Dragomir voters together to blend in with them.

vanity trying too hard. Wolfy.

#page2reads

understandable have a nice day.

I decided to take a skim over Vanity's ISO since it's been a while since I've done so.

It's interesting that he was being accused of trying too hard very early D1 and now he is saying he isn't trying to play too hard. It almost seems like a readjustment to seem less scummy?

vanity
iaafr
hyena
mr
evenstar
nutella
jack
creature

all probably v's, would never lynch in here today

These set of reads he made D1 seems relatively unchanged? I'd probably have to reread to see what he thinks about Creature.

Vanity's reads being so static also pinged me, but that kinda goes with the other stuff (e.g. vanity voting with the same people, wanting to go against the non-Dragomir voters, etc.). Felt agenda-y.

[Hyena]

Thanks Hyena.

I mean, I completely agree with vanity about the lynch group, and I completely disagree with you that his 'change' in attitude about his own game was scummy. But the point now is for me to determine if you believed it.

Okay, should I just continue posting my progression on Vanity then?

[Elephant]

Spoiler: show

taking advantage of pc to write my paper notes

D1 vote count

[10] Dragomir - Benson, nutella, vanity., Long Con, Master Radishes, Hyena, Trustworthy Liberal, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, Pawn Lelouch, juliets
[7] 112 - Creature, Evenstar, TonyStarkPrime, novaselinenever, Elephant, Epignosis, Jackofhearts2005
[3] Evenstar - Texas Cloverleaf?, sprityo, Quin
[2] Hyena - Dom, Michelle
[2] No Lynch - iaafr, boo
[1] Epignosis - MacDougall
[1] MacDougall - Dragomir
[1] nutella - Lady LambdaDelta
[1] Trustworthy Liberal - 112

D2 vc
[5] boo - Long Con, Hyena, nutella, Benson, vanity.,
[5] DFaraday - Trustworthy Liberal, Creature, juliets,boo , Elephant
[1] Trustworthy Liberal - DFaraday

D3 vc
[1] Creature - NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
[2] Elephant - Long Con, vanity.
[3] Nova/Ty4on - nutella, juliets, Creature
[1] Trustworthy Liberal - Nova/Ty4on
[3] vanity. -Trustworthy Liberal, Elephant, Hyena

D4 vc
[3] Trustworthy Liberal - Long Con, vanity., Creature
[5] vanity. - Elephant, juliets, Hyena, nutella, Trustworthy Liberal
non voting - Quin, LLD

TL and elephant look a bit worse in the context of these votes

Thank you for coloring them for me

Why?
D2 I was on vanity most of the day, and switched to DFaraday at EoD.

Yeah. You switched from an obvious townie you made a bad case on to a low-poster. Solid work.

1) vanity was not an obvious townie.
2) DFaraday had 1 post per game day. I had two wagons to choose from. He was clearly a better lynch than Boo. I did not make those wagons, in fact, I opposed lynching low hanging fruit precisely because mislynches are the inevitable result.

[112]

@112

hey 112 i've missed you

could you do some stream of consciousness on your thoughts on elephant and relevant associatives over the course of this game?

As far as associatives go, they're not something I typically pay attention to without more flips than we've had. I don't remember him being a major proponent of the Dragomir lynch and so wouldn't use that in any way to clear him. And I don't think I've read a single post this game and had an 'a wolf wouldn't post that' revelation, and I keep feeling like I'm detecting bad agenda, power-wolfy confidence and very forced reactions from all of the posts I've read of him. I haven't been in the same dream as him since D1, but the feelings I had on him then still linger because he was a very strong wolf read of mine early in the game.

[112]

wait just saw that apparently Benson was annoyed we didn't lynch TL. there could be something there- not so likely that he and i both screw up a read like that, even if it's early tbh

Yeah, I trust his reads, and I have a growing SR on T Lib myself.

There was a brief wagon on him that a bunch of people hopped on, then hopped off. I'm bad at in-the-moment wagonomics so I don't know what it means.

Do you want to make it a counter-wagon with me?

[VOTE: Trustworthy Liberal] aubergine

Yes.

[VOTE: Trustworthy Liberal] aubergine

[Master Radishes]

Thanks Hyena.

I mean, I completely agree with vanity about the lynch group, and I completely disagree with you that his 'change' in attitude about his own game was scummy. But the point now is for me to determine if you believed it.

Okay, should I just continue posting my progression on Vanity then?

Up to you. I'll read it if you do, won't harass you for it if you don't.

(FYI, that post I made about vanity trying too hard was a complete joke, and he knew it.)

[Jackofhearts2005]

This is from the Day 4 thread.

I’m not certain there’s a wolf at all at this level. If there is, I’m not certain it’s Dom. Like I townread Epi for most of the game and then he told me my read on him was stupid.

What’s the disadvantage to lynching if there is no wolf?

We’re lynching Radishes tomorrow regardless.

....why do you know radishes will be with "us"

This is so freaking weird that you have been assuming so much knowledge about the game. What do you know, why do you know it, and how do you know it?

I assume Radishes gets lynched today back to us. If not, idk what happens if scum wins the “final three.”

Surely they don’t just win cause why are we here if that’s the case?

They might all three come back to us regardless of their lynch.

So Radish should come back to us in a lot of possible worlds and we can and should lynch him tomorrow regardless of who we lynch today.

Jack has AMAZING knowledge of a thread he's not a part of, huh?

[VOTE: jack] aubergine

Dom, are you seriously arguing I have tmi for theorizing a thing would happen that DIDN’T happen?

[Evenstar]

[mention]112[/mention], [mention]Sprityo[/mention]
[mention]Macdougall[/mention], [mention]JackofHearts2005[/mention]
[mention]Epignosis[/mention], [mention]Dom[/mention]
[mention]Lady LambdaDelta[/mention], (myself)

All of you are on a two-person lynch train. I want answers to the following three questions:
1: Why are you voting for your current target?
2: Why is the other person on your wagon voting for them?
3: Do you think the other person on your wagon is scum? Why or why not?
4: How does your read of your partner on this wagon affect your read of your target?
5: If your target flipped town, how would that affect your read of your partner?

For me, that's:
1: Nutella...
- Has a terrible voting history, having MLed 3 townies in a row.
- Tinfoiled me hard enough to be seriously questioning mech, but her vote on me didn't stick.
- Responds to pressure by trying to discredit her attackers, rather than their arguments.
- Continuously engages with people scumreading her for "no reason", rather than dismissing them as wrong and/or scum.
- Scumreads Pawn, who is my hardest townread in this entire game.
- Is supporting Epi's terrible "there was nothing really on the line in the 'F3', so it was fake" argument, which is blatantly wrong.
- Agrees that Epi might have access to other threads, but refuses to consider the obvious possibility that this makes him mafia. Characterizes this argument as "You think he's scum hinting that he's scum", and implies that I could only think this due to sleep deprivation... while also being one of like two people questioning whether I'm Spiny's mason partner. Why isn't she willing to consider that Epi could be falseclaiming?
- Went along with Dom's ridiculous "Eva is claiming vig" thing as well. Very willing to try to discredit me by whatever means necessary.

This post:

Lexi, the only thing you've done this game is insist I'm scum. When I flip town what will you do? I'm legitimately concerned for what it will do to your mental and emotional health.

2: My read is that Lexi's voting for Nutella for similar reasons to mine - to exert pressure on someone with a bad voting history. As Nutella's reactions continued to deteriorate into outright worrying for Lexi's mental health - seriously, that's textbook gaslighting - Lexi just kept digging in her claws and becoming more convinced that Nutella was scum. I agree with her 100%, and I want to see Nutella lynched today.

3: Lexi could still be scum, but her anger and increduilty in her exchanges with Nutella are very real. Her very apparent exhaustion also speaks to my soul; I can see no reason why scum would be exhausted right now, since this game seems like it ought to have been a cakewalk for them so far. If she is scum, getting the flip of one of her major, talons-in targets is the best way I know how to read her.

4: If I thought Lexi was likely to be scum, I would not be on this wagon.

5: If Nutella flipped town, I would instantly suspect Lexi. Outright pushing mislynches is very much in her meta.

[Master Radishes]

Yeah. You switched from an obvious townie you made a bad case on to a low-poster. Solid work.

1) vanity was not an obvious townie.
2) DFaraday had 1 post per game day. I had two wagons to choose from. He was clearly a better lynch than Boo. I did not make those wagons, in fact, I opposed lynching low hanging fruit precisely because mislynches are the inevitable result.

I'll accept your 2nd point.

I don't accept your 1st. I know people read games differently and all, but vanity was one of the most widely town-read people during D1 for good reasons. It also should suggest that scum were hopping on that consensus townread. On top of that, he ended up in a tied vote D3, which is nearly always a v/v situation because it shows scum don't care about the result.

Vanity the new Keldeo.

[Evenstar]

[mention]Elephant[/mention]:
If you are town, why do you have four votes?
Who is scum on your wagon?

[mention]Long Con[/mention], [mention]iaafr[/mention], [mention]Michelle[/mention], [mention]nutella[/mention]:
Why are you voting for Elephant? What is the scummiest post in his ISO?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Were the dream levels aware that when someone was lynched or NK'd at their level they came into the top level where the lynch or NK became real?

On a different subject, I am now reading nutella as town after reading through her posts in this new phase. I don't agree with everything she says but that's ok.

I was seeing Elephant as town in our time together before we merged back together. I am concerned though because he hasn't been here very much in this new phase and I don't understand his vote on Michelle. @Elephant I need to see more from you today.

Not flat told by the hosts but there were strong clues to that effect.

Drago flipped upon lynch. Further lynches and kills were “kicked” which in the movie means “woken up back to the previous dream level.”

[Master Radishes]

[mention]MacDougall[/mention] join 112 and I on the TL wagon.

[Master Radishes]

Oh, thanks for reminding me, Jack...

On a different subject, I am now reading nutella as town after reading through her posts in this new phase. I don't agree with everything she says but that's ok.

I was seeing Elephant as town in our time together before we merged back together. I am concerned though because he hasn't been here very much in this new phase and I don't understand his vote on Michelle. @Elephant I need to see more from you today.

This was such a wishy washy post. "I don't agree with everything she says but that's okay"? "I need to see more from you today"?

Juliets, as I recall your movement onto vanity stood out to me for seeming to just sheep others. Am I mischaracterising that?

[Jackofhearts2005]

I can't make much sense of Michelle's D0/D1 ISO, but I found these two gems.

kill Michelle she's not Towny

yeah i'd expect to have a townread on michelle at this point if she were a villa

[VOTE: michelle] aubergine

wait you voted me before reading my Iso? -_-

i guess michelle is posting more than i know of her scum meta but uhh

no townread still

defaults to a wolfread

omgus suits you

I'd vote Radishes over Sprityo and Evenstar right now, but it's still earlay in the day.

what to do with this gem? What do you see here?

1) You scumread vanity, yet you blame me for the same thing.
2) You criticize vanity for voting without reading the ISO, yet you do the same with me.
3) You shade him for omgus'ing, but he is town; but me omgus'ing makes me a wolf
4) vanity wolfread you.
I will put it as clearly as I can: Vanity is our redirector; I'd bet he redirected your wolf kill onto Tony or Texas, and because you couldn't kill me, you have been pushing this agenda-y lynch ever since.

This is all well and good (and like all the rest of the Elephant stuff, from before I got here) except for this bit, which I don’t think is a thing wolves do.

I try not to shoot anyone I think I can mislynch and I certainly don’t try to mislynch anyone I can’t shoot. I panic and try to find the doc or whatever.

[Master Radishes]

Liverpool 2-0 Man City so far.

[Hyena]

rip benson. iirc he had a lot of suspicion on elephant and maybe juliets as well?

dfaraday was unfortunately a death that had to happen sooner rather than later.

benson was also pushing on tlib. he was also just one of the most active and villagery people in our group, though that raises the question why nutella didn't die?

thinking face emoji

long con is far and away the wolfiest person on boo. the people on dfaraday look wolfy though i'd perceive villagers are more likely to vote on dfaraday in these scenarios

so evaluating the vote from yesterday is tricky.

hyena why are you such a tough case to crack every time you're in the game...

like i want to say this is villa hyena but... idk what else to say. i don't think it's that simple tbh

It really feels like Vanity's reads and pushes have remained static throughout the past two days and that he's just looking for more reasons to pile on top of his list of reasons to scumread the people he's calling scum (particularly elephant and juliets, and to a lesser degree TLib).

When he does consider other people, such as me or nutella, he doesn't really give any reason to suspect us. It's more just shade. In nutella's case, he doesn't explain why he thought nutella would die over Benson. Wasn't vanity one of the people calling Benson top town in this group? As for me, it's like, he's saying I'm tough to crack, but if that's the case, I don't feel like he's done much to solidify a read on me.

Finally, his suspicion of Long Con feels more like him trying to "protect" nutella and I and him trying to sway us from possibly finding him as town. The only people alive today that were on Benson are me, nutella, vanity, and Long Con.

Again, me bringing up Vanity's reads being static and my theory that he was trying to keep Dragomir voters together, only this time, he's starting to suspect Nutella and I.

Again, [me, nutella, vanity, and long con] all voted the same on both D1 and D2. It feels like Vanity is just trying to keep a core group together voting with him [me and nutella in this case] while casting suspicion on pretty much everyone else.

Vanity eventually responds to some of my accusations and mentions that he wants to trust his village reads, which is weird, because he just threw some suspicion on to two of us (me and nutella). Thus I ask him about it:

i was just about to say my reads being static means nothing for my alignment but then i remembered i literally spent an entire chunk of the game reevaluating on my mac read. but the environment here is much different.

i'm taking a very lazy approach to the game and that's why it's probably coming off like that

also i understand that it may seem like i'm trying to cling myself to a bunch of villagers to look towny, i even like doing that as a wolf! but i really strongly believed that my village core was strong and for once i'm trying to actually trust in my early village reads because they tend to be good.

Am I town that's pushing on you, or am I scum pushing on you?

i don't know. is that an acceptable answer?

i think you're probably town. but would i bet money on it? no, that's the distinction i suppose.

Why were you surprised that nutella didn't die over Benson?

you know, i actually was! i just didn't voice it because i didn't think it was indicative of nutella being mafia. all i think it's indicative of is either wifom, or benson actually having a decent nose wolves wanted out of the game.

Weren't you calling Benson your top town yesterday though? It felt like a bunch of people were calling him their top town.

His answers were confusing to me and seemed to contradict stuff he had said before, and I thought it was scummy.

[Hyena]

[VOTE: Evenstar] aubergine
Will you answer my questions?

[Hyena]

[VOTE: Evenstar] aubergine
Will you answer my questions?

lol, that vote was supposed to be a mention
[mention]Evenstar[/mention]

[Evenstar]

Eva-- forget nutella and Epi for a second-- I'm not voting for either.

Who is bad and why?

Radishes, because of everything that happened in D4, plus compelling reasons that I can't share. Willing to let the vig get him though.
Quin, because they've lurked through the entire game and have a wolfy pickup today.
If it's not Nutella, Hyena is very likely scum. If neither of them are, look at Long Con.
112 could still be scum and I'm very tempted to resolve them today. They've felt weird this whole game and they had a wolfy vote earlier.

Never scum:
LLD
Rabbit
Pawn Lelouch

[Evenstar]

What an absolutely atrocious votal. We need to get our shit together.

...

This may be the most important day phase in the entire game. We need your input. Put a damn vote down already.

Shh. The townies are working now, Eva.

Thanks for the blatant attempt to shut down discussion and coordination. Go sit in the corner while the actual townies here work.

You're fun to troll.

[Evenstar]

Evenstar

[VOTE: Evenstar] aubergine

See below:

Spoiler: show

ok finally worked up the will to log in

who should I sheep

first one to mention me with a good reason gets my vote

iaafr

vote nutella, she's MLed 3 town

I'm going to try this again (with a mention even this time Evenstar):

....That's not what I asked.

What makes her vote record worse than mine-- someone you were convinced was bad just two days ago?

... the fact that she has verifiably lynched town?

And what of the other voters on those trains?

Are they just as bad yet they did not vote for Dragomir?

Nutella and Hyena are the only two players to participate in both town MLs. I don't think it's Hyena.

Ayy, progress has been made on the argument for "nutella is scum". Does knowing that I kinda pressured her to vote Vanity change your read on either of us? Also, there were three mislynches: Spiny/boo, Nova/Ty4on, and Vanity. Four if you count DFar, who was the counterwagon to Spiny/boo and is being speculated as a town vig shot.

If you're counting DFar, then everybody on D2 voted for town, except for DFar, who.. y'know.. flipped town. On D3, Ty4on and Vanity were tied at the end of the day, and Ty only got lynched due to Rand. Everyone but Ty, Vanity, and Long Con voted for one of Ty and Vanity. Finally, on D4, everyone but Long Con, vanity, and Creature voted for Vanity.

With that information, whose votes do you think looks the best and the worst now from our group? :P

pls, respond Eva <33

Still think it's you or Nutella.

[Master Radishes]

His answers were confusing to me and seemed to contradict stuff he had said before, and I thought it was scummy.

Thanks; I'm reading through this so your work has not gone unappreciated.

Did you not have any other scumreads during these days? Who else was a wolf in the scum!vanity world? How it looked to me, as an outsider, was that once Elephant made the case a couple people, including you, slid in to it fairly easily, like it was an opening for a mislynch of a strong townie that scum wanted to exploit. (It's why I'm voting T Lib right now, since his 'slide' was much more egregious than yours or anyone else's.)

[Hyena]

Evenstar

[VOTE: Evenstar] aubergine

See below:

Spoiler: show

ok finally worked up the will to log in

who should I sheep

first one to mention me with a good reason gets my vote

iaafr

vote nutella, she's MLed 3 town

I'm going to try this again (with a mention even this time Evenstar):

... the fact that she has verifiably lynched town?

And what of the other voters on those trains?

Are they just as bad yet they did not vote for Dragomir?

Nutella and Hyena are the only two players to participate in both town MLs. I don't think it's Hyena.

Ayy, progress has been made on the argument for "nutella is scum". Does knowing that I kinda pressured her to vote Vanity change your read on either of us? Also, there were three mislynches: Spiny/boo, Nova/Ty4on, and Vanity. Four if you count DFar, who was the counterwagon to Spiny/boo and is being speculated as a town vig shot.

If you're counting DFar, then everybody on D2 voted for town, except for DFar, who.. y'know.. flipped town. On D3, Ty4on and Vanity were tied at the end of the day, and Ty only got lynched due to Rand. Everyone but Ty, Vanity, and Long Con voted for one of Ty and Vanity. Finally, on D4, everyone but Long Con, vanity, and Creature voted for Vanity.

With that information, whose votes do you think looks the best and the worst now from our group? :P

pls, respond Eva <33

Still think it's you or Nutella.

I think you're bullshitting. :P

[Evenstar]

Evenstar

[VOTE: Evenstar] aubergine

See below:

Spoiler: show

ok finally worked up the will to log in

who should I sheep

first one to mention me with a good reason gets my vote

iaafr

vote nutella, she's MLed 3 town

I'm going to try this again (with a mention even this time Evenstar):

And what of the other voters on those trains?

Are they just as bad yet they did not vote for Dragomir?

Nutella and Hyena are the only two players to participate in both town MLs. I don't think it's Hyena.

Ayy, progress has been made on the argument for "nutella is scum". Does knowing that I kinda pressured her to vote Vanity change your read on either of us? Also, there were three mislynches: Spiny/boo, Nova/Ty4on, and Vanity. Four if you count DFar, who was the counterwagon to Spiny/boo and is being speculated as a town vig shot.

If you're counting DFar, then everybody on D2 voted for town, except for DFar, who.. y'know.. flipped town. On D3, Ty4on and Vanity were tied at the end of the day, and Ty only got lynched due to Rand. Everyone but Ty, Vanity, and Long Con voted for one of Ty and Vanity. Finally, on D4, everyone but Long Con, vanity, and Creature voted for Vanity.

With that information, whose votes do you think looks the best and the worst now from our group? :P

pls, respond Eva <33

Still think it's you or Nutella.

I think you're bullshitting. :P

Cool, lynch me for it. <3

[Jackofhearts2005]

Jackofhearts2005 tell me please where is your head at today

Towncore
Jack
Nutella
Mac
Michelle (beyond my original sheeped reasons, I like the Elephant push)
Juliets (but like the green ranger, she’s not quite as core as the others but this feels better with five people and there have been no pings)

Probably Town
Eva (mason?)
Iaafr
Sprityo

Probably town but I’m tinfoiling
Dom
Epi
Radishes (I’m aware I have all of the final 3 in probably town and it is a problem)

Nullish
Quin
TL
Colin

Scumish
LLD
Elephant

Scum
LC
Pawn

I’m sure I’ve forgotten somebody but there’s no poll on the full reply.

[Hyena]

His answers were confusing to me and seemed to contradict stuff he had said before, and I thought it was scummy.

Thanks; I'm reading through this so your work has not gone unappreciated.

Did you not have any other scumreads during these days? Who else was a wolf in the scum!vanity world? How it looked to me, as an outsider, was that once Elephant made the case a couple people, including you, slid in to it fairly easily, like it was an opening for a mislynch of a strong townie that scum wanted to exploit. (It's why I'm voting T Lib right now, since his 'slide' was much more egregious than yours or anyone else's.)

At one point, I thought Vanity and Nutella could be together actually. I was paranoid that they were powerwolfing. I also scumread Nutella D4 independently based on her flipflopping between Elephant and Vanity. I thought TLib had PR-slipped at one point, and am still convinced it's still possible, which was why I didn't go after him during those days. I already explained why I didn't go after Juliets earlier today. I kept forgetting Long Con existed. I wanted Creature's head a couple times, but never enough to go after him. And finally, for Elephant, I just townread him.

[Jackofhearts2005]

112 is scumish and Hyena is null.

I know some of these reads are out of date but that’s what happens when you don’t interact with someone for 2-4 days.

[Master Radishes]

Radishes, because of everything that happened in D4, plus compelling reasons that I can't share. Willing to let the vig get him though.

Why can't you share with the class? I'm assuming it can't be PR-related, since you're the Mason, so surely you're allowed to, since it will presumaby help the Town solve the game.

[Jackofhearts2005]

All animals are scum is not as spicy as all Syndicate players are scum.

[Hyena]

[mention]Evenstar[/mention]
You mentioned that you'd think LLD would be scum if nutella flipped town. Does that imply that you think the both of us would be scum if Nutella flipped town?

[Master Radishes]

All animals are scum is not as spicy as all Syndicate players are scum.

I know. I'm a cheap knock-off of iaafr.

[Jackofhearts2005]

By the way, I think the Vig that was in our group is within, like, [TLib, Elephant, and nutella].

That is unfortunate.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I’m literally a Jack Russell.