Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [GAME OVER]

[G-Man]

Odd request, but here goes: keep me as a viable second or third wagon. Use me to either draw out shifty votes or intimidate baddies to stay put if a teammate is on the chopping block.

I'm less sure of you than I was at the Day 2 deadline, but the way you framed your vote still strikes me as odd. Why was my participation in the Radish wagon enough to sway you off of that vote? Particularly in a game with multiple mafia teams.

Odd G-Man is odd. I didn’t trust you, so I wasn’t going to do anything to bring about a result you wanted. Call it crocodile-brain logic. In the absence of wanting to lynch someone specific, I resorted to not voting with a perceived enemy.

[S~V~S]

I'm gonna go eat dinner and watch election results with my politics people. [mention]Dom[/mention] walk away for now and watch politics, much less divisive :P

[nutella]

Odd request, but here goes: keep me as a viable second or third wagon. Use me to either draw out shifty votes or intimidate baddies to stay put if a teammate is on the chopping block.

I'm less sure of you than I was at the Day 2 deadline, but the way you framed your vote still strikes me as odd. Why was my participation in the Radish wagon enough to sway you off of that vote? Particularly in a game with multiple mafia teams.

Odd G-Man is odd. I didn’t trust you, so I wasn’t going to do anything to bring about a result you wanted. Call it crocodile-brain logic. In the absence of wanting to lynch someone specific, I resorted to not voting with a perceived enemy.

This man is town, fools.

[Sloonei]

Odd request, but here goes: keep me as a viable second or third wagon. Use me to either draw out shifty votes or intimidate baddies to stay put if a teammate is on the chopping block.

I'm less sure of you than I was at the Day 2 deadline, but the way you framed your vote still strikes me as odd. Why was my participation in the Radish wagon enough to sway you off of that vote? Particularly in a game with multiple mafia teams.

Odd G-Man is odd. I didn’t trust you, so I wasn’t going to do anything to bring about a result you wanted. Call it crocodile-brain logic. In the absence of wanting to lynch someone specific, I resorted to not voting with a perceived enemy.

Where are you at now in your attempt to wrap your head around this monstrosity of a mafia game?

[G-Man]

Where are you at now in your attempt to wrap your head around this monstrosity of a mafia game?

Out to lunch.

[G-Man]

On the whole, I’d rather be a useful mislynch early rather than become a useful idiot to the baddies later.

[juliets]

I don't see anyone pointing out a flaw in Dizzy's logic so I'm voting. Normally I would wait to hear from sig but this looks black and white to me. I can't think of an explanation that would make this go away.

[VOTE: sig] aubergine

Can't think of any explanation.......But doesn't bother to finish ISO.

Again mac teammates rushing onto another wagon.

Who said I didn't finish your ISO? I read the whole thing. The point Dizzy made that I say I can't think of an explanation for was the point that I quoted where you spoke about Mac being targeted for the kill as the only option for what happened and why he wouldn't have been protected or wasn't the civ. You acted as if you knew it was him that was targeted and not someone else who could have been protected or was the civ. You spoke from the POV that he was targeted. From Dizzy's analysis:

When SVS suggests that the no kill on N1 may have been for many reasons, Sig answers with the knowledge that Mac was the actual kill target.

Read it. Sig says he doubts the protective role would target Mac (so that couldn't be the reason why the kill failed.) And then Sig says that he considered that Mac could be the civ role, but that he thinks that Mac is just much more likely mafia (again revealing that Mac was targeted for a NK.)

And trying to intimidate me by calling me a Mac teammate when I vote for you looks desperate.

[Sloonei]

On the whole, I’d rather be a useful mislynch early rather than become a useful idiot to the baddies later.

It does not look like you are getting lynched today.

[juliets]

On the whole, I’d rather be a useful mislynch early rather than become a useful idiot to the baddies later.

It does not look like you are getting lynched today.

Yes, [mention]G-Man[/mention] take that vote off yourself.

[juliets]

I have to jump in the shower so I will be back in a bit.

[Dom]

People who give me the yuckies
Colin
Mac
Nutella
Sig
Turnip Head

Am I allowed to post this or is it “a list of names that have nothing to do with one another”?
Because apparently it was toxic to do that earlier.

I do not know who you are fighting against right now, but this list is acceptable. Talk to me about nutella2.0.

I made a similar list and was told it was dumb or baddie somehow.

Nutella2.0 is being emotionally manipulative. She is telling me all about how nice she was to me throughout the game and she’s oh so sad that I see through the bullshit and using that to steer me away from Mac.

I am not. If anyone is gaslighting, you are. Most of your "suspicions" take the form of "this person didn't answer my question the exact way I wanted therefore they are bad" which doesn't account for different playstyles that can easily be town motivated in the case of TH, and in the case of Ted you actually assumed in bad faith that he had deliberately avoided something when in fact he just hadn't seen it. That's very much a bad faith assumption. You need to learn to assume the best intentions in people. Also how on Earth am i steering you away from Mac lol, I am literally one of the biggest proponents of a mac lynch,no idea how you could miss that.

You weren't told your list was bad it was literally just confusing/misleading and was misinterpreted.

That first post i made about you was because I actually missed your presence. And because I felt some similarities in our style of accusation, but I don't feel that anymore this game because your reasons have all been shallow af.

It was not about how you missed me. You literally said you wish you didn't have to be the "me".
That does not sound good. You have routinely insulted me throughout our games together and wonder why I assume the worst in your messaging. You consistently tell me I am annoying, rude, brash, harsh, toxic, irritating... the list goes on.


TH literally has not answered my questions (which are prompted by him being suspicious) at all. It's not that he didn't answer them in a way that I liked. He did not answer them. You are lying because you do not like me. I suspect Turnip Head for this. Yet again, you characterize this as "toxic" and "gaslighting". Fuck off. Fuck all the way off.

My reasons are not shallow. You refuse to read into them.

People who give me the yuckies
Colin
Mac
Nutella
Sig
Turnip Head

Am I allowed to post this or is it “a list of names that have nothing to do with one another”?
Because apparently it was toxic to do that earlier.

I do not know who you are fighting against right now, but this list is acceptable. Talk to me about nutella2.0.

I made a similar list and was told it was dumb or baddie somehow.

Nutella2.0 is being emotionally manipulative. She is telling me all about how nice she was to me throughout the game and she’s oh so sad that I see through the bullshit and using that to steer me away from Mac.

Does this mean your nutella suspicion exclusively has her on a team with mac? What if mac is town?

I have not formed a read on this version of nutella, but the way she's picked up on the sig wagon (idk if it gets off the ground without her) looks very much like she's not on his team, at the very least.

Her tone is very different as well.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I don’t remember syndicate games being this toxic or filled with vitriol.

Maybe I just have selective memory

[nutella]

Dom, stop telling me what I meant. I think I know what I meant. You are gaslighting again.

[nutella]

I understand why you suspect TH on a basic level. I think you are failing to take into account that their playstyle is often to hold back on opinions in the thread and think in the background so that they can solve better late game. I think their refusal to answer you reflects that strategy. I think they are town.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

You guys are also being verrrrry liberal with the term gaslighting

[Dom]

"Dom never engages in good faith"

Sabie
Mac
Ted

You think I am teammates with Sabie? For real?

There are two baddie teams, sweetie.

So you grouped us for no reason?

Nutella's bff assuming the worst in me. If he's baddie (which he probably is) it's a good play. But hey... I'm the one who argues in bad faith.

Turnip Head civ reads me and hasn't responded to a single question I pose to him, apologizes, still does not answer them...
yet I'm the one arguing in bad faith.

Get bent. Fuck off. You're either just being rude, judgmental, and personal or you're a pretty transparent baddie.

[Dom]

You guys are also being verrrrry liberal with the term gaslighting

I don't think it's appropriate at all.
But anything to smear me.

[nutella]

"Dom never engages in good faith"

Sabie
Mac
Ted

You think I am teammates with Sabie? For real?

There are two baddie teams, sweetie.

So you grouped us for no reason?

Nutella's bff assuming the worst in me. If he's baddie (which he probably is) it's a good play. But hey... I'm the one who argues in bad faith.

Turnip Head civ reads me and hasn't responded to a single question I pose to him, apologizes, still does not answer them...
yet I'm the one arguing in bad faith.

Get bent. Fuck off. You're either just being rude, judgmental, and personal or you're a pretty transparent baddie.

He wasn't assuming the worst he just assumed you meant those names went together for a reason because you gave LITERALLY ZERO CONTEXT!! Jesus.

[nutella]

And i'm telling you TH could very well have a town motivated reason for not answering you. That's all.

[Dom]

What would that motivation be?
Is that not how discussions work or am I a second class member who should be happy with being ignored?

Like...?

What the hell is your issue?

[nutella]

Dom can't imagine how other people might interpret posts differently from how they were intended because he can't get out of his own ego

[nutella]

What would that motivation be?
Is that not how discussions work or am I a second class member who should be happy with being ignored?

Like...?

What the hell is your issue?

Like I just said. The motivation is to keep their thoughts quiet so baddies can't take advantage of them, then they can solve better late game. Sometimes it's best not to voice every read you have out loud.

[juliets]

Hey guys, maybe step back from the game for a few minutes.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Hey maybe you guys should both just stop talking to each other, this can’t be fun for anyone

[Dom]

That's literally not what I posted about, but you, once again, don't engage in my point (that all discussion I bring up is shut down). Instead, you shut down my discussion and personally attack me.

Go on, nutella. Go the fuck on.

[MacDougall]

Odd request, but here goes: keep me as a viable second or third wagon. Use me to either draw out shifty votes or intimidate baddies to stay put if a teammate is on the chopping block.

I'm less sure of you than I was at the Day 2 deadline, but the way you framed your vote still strikes me as odd. Why was my participation in the Radish wagon enough to sway you off of that vote? Particularly in a game with multiple mafia teams.

Odd G-Man is odd. I didn’t trust you, so I wasn’t going to do anything to bring about a result you wanted. Call it crocodile-brain logic. In the absence of wanting to lynch someone specific, I resorted to not voting with a perceived enemy.

This man is town, fools.

Strong language for someone who presumably doesn't have access to info

[Dom]

People have been telling me to shut the fuck up for a full day now.

Didn't know you all hated me so much.

[Dom]

*posts about Mac*

"Dom stop"

*posts about TH*

"Dom stop"

*posts about...*

"Dom stop"

Well fuck.

[MacDougall]

I don’t remember syndicate games being this toxic or filled with vitriol.

Maybe I just have selective memory

It's generally a common thing that occurs when people tunnel me. I'll take the heat on this one.

[Sloonei]

What would that motivation be?
Is that not how discussions work or am I a second class member who should be happy with being ignored?

Like...?

What the hell is your issue?

I understand frustration at being misunderstood, and I’ve also been at the wrong end of plenty of nutella suspicions past and present. But as a neutral observer in this exchange, I do not feel like nutella is treating you unfairly, and I don’t think the current trajectory of this discussion is good for you guys or the game. Let’s all hold hands and work through our differences together.

[Dom]

I don’t remember syndicate games being this toxic or filled with vitriol.

Maybe I just have selective memory

It's generally a common thing that occurs when people tunnel me. I'll take the heat on this one.

Not everyone who suspects you is tunnelling.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I’m telling you both to shut up tbf

Not even in general just this back and forth is no longer productive

Talk about literally anything that isn’t yelling at each other lol

[nutella]

That's literally not what I posted about, but you, once again, don't engage in my point (that all discussion I bring up is shut down). Instead, you shut down my discussion and personally attack me.

Go on, nutella. Go the fuck on.

I just answered your question? I'm sorry, i really don't see what you mean here. I'm not trying to shut you down I'm just explaining why i don't think your suspicion is sound.


I think you are town... maybe.... so I'll stop engaging for now. Do some hunting.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

You know it’s bad when I’m asking people to be less yelly lmao

[Dom]

I’m telling you both to shut up tbf

Not even in general just this back and forth is no longer productive

Talk about literally anything that isn’t yelling at each other lol

This is literally the third time I've been told to stop talking about my suspects.

[Sloonei]

[mention]Dom[/mention] talk about Turnip Head some more. You say you don’t like that he avoided answering some of your questions yesterday. What do you imagine was Mafia TH’s mindset in those moments?

[S~V~S]

I’m telling you both to shut up tbf

Not even in general just this back and forth is no longer productive

Talk about literally anything that isn’t yelling at each other lol

This is exactly how I felt when I was six and my parents were ramping up to divorcing.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I’m telling you both to shut up tbf

Not even in general just this back and forth is no longer productive

Talk about literally anything that isn’t yelling at each other lol

This is literally the third time I've been told to stop talking about my suspects.

Ok, I’ll rephrase

Talk about them, but yelling back and forth with them isn’t productive at this point, yeah? We know how you feel and your read (which I actually kind of like), yelling back and forth is more likely to turn people off from paying attention to your read

Idk man there’s just a lot of yelling going on that seems unnecessary, I’m not trying to stifle you from talking in general

[MacDougall]

I don’t remember syndicate games being this toxic or filled with vitriol.

Maybe I just have selective memory

It's generally a common thing that occurs when people tunnel me. I'll take the heat on this one.

Not everyone who suspects you is tunnelling.

What is tunneling?

No, not everyone is. Jack isn't. Nutella isn't. Sloonei isn't. There are a lot of people who aren't. At this point I think the majority of the game have at least some suspicion of me with the notable exceptions of Turnip Head, Tedxtr et al. I'm not going to comment on whether you are or not because I what is and isn't tunneling is rather open to interpretation. But I think it would be quite impossible to believe that I haven't been the victim of it to a significant degree. I don't exactly have a problem with it either, in a grudge holding, long term mad at you kinda way. So as long as those who do it are willing to accept that if they are going to engage in me negatively, by applying tunnel vision, repetitive and adamant fashion that I am going to reply equally negatively then really we should able to have tiffs and flare ups and then work past them. That would be my preference.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I’m telling you both to shut up tbf

Not even in general just this back and forth is no longer productive

Talk about literally anything that isn’t yelling at each other lol

This is exactly how I felt when I was six and my parents were ramping up to divorcing.

Oof

[MacDougall]

*posts about Mac*

"Dom stop"

*posts about TH*

"Dom stop"

*posts about...*

"Dom stop"

Well fuck.

I'm always interested to hear any opinion when it isn't someone repetitively calling me scum.

And I don't want you to be leashed, or muted at all. Speak your mind. Just be wary of the fact that something in the way you play triggers some people and be willing to account for that. I trigger lots of people on TS and it's taken me a great deal of time to learn how to navigate it. Often I still fail. It doesn't stop me playing my game. I hate that you feel like you are having your ability to play the game in your way suppressed because I can totally relate.

[Sloonei]

[mention]MacDougall[/mention] talk about players who aren’t voting for/heavily suspecting you. Who are your town reads? Is there anyone you think isn’t getting enough attention?

[MacDougall]

@Dom talk about Turnip Head some more. You say you don’t like that he avoided answering some of your questions yesterday. What do you imagine was Mafia TH’s mindset in those moments?

Can we talk about the Darth Sloonei shaped elephant in the room?

[Sloonei]

@Dom talk about Turnip Head some more. You say you don’t like that he avoided answering some of your questions yesterday. What do you imagine was Mafia TH’s mindset in those moments?

Can we talk about the Darth Sloonei shaped elephant in the room?

There we go

[nutella]

@Dom talk about Turnip Head some more. You say you don’t like that he avoided answering some of your questions yesterday. What do you imagine was Mafia TH’s mindset in those moments?

Can we talk about the Darth Sloonei shaped elephant in the room?

Well I think you and he are teammates so this is interesting coming from you. What are your thoughts?

[MacDougall]

@MacDougall talk about players who aren’t voting for/heavily suspecting you. Who are your town reads? Is there anyone you think isn’t getting enough attention?

A great deal of people. The constant focus on myself (and now Sig) is very much allowing for a game environment where people who are absolutely failing in their basic civilian duty, or not living up to their usual standards are receiving little to no pressure. I have reservations about all the below;

Epignosis - Does not appear to be earnestly attempting to achieve a civilian wincon.
ColinIsCool - Only appears to be trying when there is pressure on him.
Michelle - Does not match her meta. Hasn't helped the civ cause really at all.
speedchuck - Does not appear to be the same speedchuck that I am used to seeing.
sprityo - Appears to be totally laying low outside of intermittently FPS reading me scum.
Tranq - Has literally made 5 posts or something.

[MacDougall]

@Dom talk about Turnip Head some more. You say you don’t like that he avoided answering some of your questions yesterday. What do you imagine was Mafia TH’s mindset in those moments?

Can we talk about the Darth Sloonei shaped elephant in the room?

Well I think you and he are teammates so this is interesting coming from you. What are your thoughts?

I rarely struggle to read Sloonei. He's probably about to do the old "Mac scum reads me everygame" bit. Town Sloonei gets leads, bites down and them and works them until they are either proven in his mind or disproven. Here he is quicksilver, shifting his reads to suit the mood.

[juliets]

@MacDougall talk about players who aren’t voting for/heavily suspecting you. Who are your town reads? Is there anyone you think isn’t getting enough attention?

A great deal of people. The constant focus on myself (and now Sig) is very much allowing for a game environment where people who are absolutely failing in their basic civilian duty, or not living up to their usual standards are receiving little to no pressure. I have reservations about all the below;

Epignosis - Does not appear to be earnestly attempting to achieve a civilian wincon.
ColinIsCool - Only appears to be trying when there is pressure on him.
Michelle - Does not match her meta. Hasn't helped the civ cause really at all.
speedchuck - Does not appear to be the same speedchuck that I am used to seeing.
sprityo - Appears to be totally laying low outside of intermittently FPS reading me scum.
Tranq - Has literally made 5 posts or something.

Mac can you talk about speedchuck? Is it that he isn't posting frequently or something else/combination of things?

[Sloonei]

@MacDougall talk about players who aren’t voting for/heavily suspecting you. Who are your town reads? Is there anyone you think isn’t getting enough attention?

A great deal of people. The constant focus on myself (and now Sig) is very much allowing for a game environment where people who are absolutely failing in their basic civilian duty, or not living up to their usual standards are receiving little to no pressure. I have reservations about all the below;

Epignosis - Does not appear to be earnestly attempting to achieve a civilian wincon.
ColinIsCool - Only appears to be trying when there is pressure on him.
Michelle - Does not match her meta. Hasn't helped the civ cause really at all.
speedchuck - Does not appear to be the same speedchuck that I am used to seeing.
sprityo - Appears to be totally laying low outside of intermittently FPS reading me scum.
Tranq - Has literally made 5 posts or something.

Why isn’t the Darth Sloonei elephant on this list?

Why did you frame Epi that way? What about him suggests “not trying to achieve” a civilian victory?

You’re not the first person who has accused Michelle of being off her meta. I’ve asked about this several times but haven’t received a satisfying answer: what is her mets, and how does her play in this game differ from it? I don’t have much experience with michelle, but she was caught pretty quickly the one time I saw her scum game.

[Sloonei]

@Dom talk about Turnip Head some more. You say you don’t like that he avoided answering some of your questions yesterday. What do you imagine was Mafia TH’s mindset in those moments?

Can we talk about the Darth Sloonei shaped elephant in the room?

Well I think you and he are teammates so this is interesting coming from you. What are your thoughts?

I rarely struggle to read Sloonei. He's probably about to do the old "Mac scum reads me everygame" bit. Town Sloonei gets leads, bites down and them and works them until they are either proven in his mind or disproven. Here he is quicksilver, shifting his reads to suit the mood.

Regarding your first sentence, see your second sentence. Show me where I’m shifting my reads to suit the mood.